Teacher's policy about using the bathrroom during class (UPDATE) - Page 2

[SunshineJ]

I have to say this whole discussion makes me more worried about my little guy who started k this year. Now, in his class they take them regularly, and I've assumed he can go if he needs to, but the thought of a child of ANY age being "rewarded" or punished for taking care of a bodily function sickens me. At the office I'm allowed to go to the bathroom whenever I have the need, how is the school method preparing the children for their future in this manner? (And there have been days at work when I've not felt well that I'm certain I would have maxxed out my "passes" or sticks or whatever for a few weeks in that one day!) This is just insane to me and makes me really sad for the kids out there.

K.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

At the office I'm allowed to go to the bathroom whenever I have the need, how is the school method preparing the children for their future in this manner?

Well, I think there does have to be a balance and this analogy really doesn't hold. First, you don't need supervision when you are away from your desk -- you aren't likely to wander away from school, find something interesting to investigate and get into things you shouldn't, and you probably don't use the bathroom as a break from math (as an example) or as an interesting place to play. All of which some kids will do. Yes, children should be able to go to the bathroom when necessary, but they also need to be kept safe and that means the teacher needs to know where they are. And if their bathroom needs seem excessive there needs to be some way to make it more interesting/worth their while to be in class rather than playing in the restroom. Some teachers/schools are better at figuring out how to do that than others.

And there have been days at work when I've not felt well that I'm certain I would have maxxed out my "passes" or sticks or whatever for a few weeks in that one day!

Well, I hope that if your child is having, um, bathroom issues, you don't send him to school. We push ourselves to go to work on days when we shouldn't, but a child who is having digestive issues really should be kept at home for everyone's sake.

[blue butterfly]

at dds school they have 3 scheduled bathroom breaks and then if they have to go more often they just have to raise there hands and are allowed to go.

[mojumi]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

Bottom line: Become more interesting to the student than the toilet.

OK, I know this is a serious issue but this had me

Thanks for putting it in such clear terms.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

Well, I think there does have to be a balance and this analogy really doesn't hold. First, you don't need supervision when you are away from your desk -- you aren't likely to wander away from school, find something interesting to investigate and get into things you shouldn't, and you probably don't use the bathroom as a break from math (as an example) or as an interesting place to play. All of which some kids will do. Yes, children should be able to go to the bathroom when necessary, but they also need to be kept safe and that means the teacher needs to know where they are.

Knowing where a child is and denying the child the right to be there are two different things. Knowing where the child is and rewarding a child for not being there when he or she should be are two different things. Knowing where a child is and punishing a child for being where the child needs to be are two different things.

Despite popular opinion, it is possible to allow a child to take care of him or herself and know where the child intends to go.

And if their bathroom needs seem excessive there needs to be some way to make it more interesting/worth their while to be in class rather than playing in the restroom. Some teachers/schools are better at figuring out how to do that than others.

People really need to push to get the educational laws changed in America so that teachers have the freedom and responsibility again.

Well, I hope that if your child is having, um, bathroom issues, you don't send him to school. We push ourselves to go to work on days when we shouldn't, but a child who is having digestive issues really should be kept at home for everyone's sake.

Since when do medical problems only show up at home?

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by mojumi

OK, I know this is a serious issue but this had me

Thanks for putting it in such clear terms.

That's why I do stand up comedy

[mran]

My son is allowed to go whenever he needs to go, and his teacher taught the kids the ASL sign for bathroom/potty, and whenever they need to go, they just raise their hands high w/ the sign, and she nods, and they go. I thought this was an awesome idea, because then they weren't disrupting the class.

[octobermom]

Here's my bathroom policy (I teach 2nd grade) - students are given 2 bathroom sticks (popscicle sticks with their numbers on them) on Mondays. If they have both bathroom sticks on Friday, they get two raffle tickets. If they have one, they get one raffle ticket. If they have none, no raffle tickets. We have a raffle drawing at our school once a week for little things like pencils. The kids LOVE raffle tickets!

Okay I really don't get this and I'd have a huge issue wit hit if it was my DD school. I tend to be the parent that believes my rules at home teachers in school and I'll back the teacher up on most anything. SO like my DD gets if shes does "sloopy work" she might have to re do it at recess or if shes talks during snack time her card could get turned and no sticker that day.. ect. I also think teaching some bathroom "restraint" especailly as they get older makes sense and I can even accept the two bathroom passes a week thing but I don't get the ticket thing isn't that basically punishing those with smaller bladders? I just don't get why those that don't go potty are given prizes?? Again I totally see setting limits and such but the prize??

But, definitley write a note to the teacher, because I would certainly give special priviliges to someone who had bladder problems

YEa well that was me I had extensive kidney bladder surgury just a month before starting my kindergarden year but I was also majorly shy and I made my self very very sick not asking for bathroom "passes" *which we had to do even though the bathroom was in our classroom.. because I didn't want to be the diffrent one.

Though I will have to say..

Ever think that if you have to stop students from going to the bathroom constantly, there's a problem with the teaching?

Think about it...sitting on a toilet is more interesting than what you're providing the child. Bottom line: Become more interesting to the student than the toilet.

Well umm I remember being totally entralled with bathrooms like if we went out to eat the bathroom HAD to be explored or a friends house ect and as an introvert sometimes a 2 minute "bathroom break" was like heavenly LOL (heck thats true today) and had little to do with the teaching being borning or not...

Deanna

[SpaceAngel401]

I have kind of the opposite issue at work.....all day long kids are asking me if they can go to the bathroom. I say, "Of course you can. You don't need to ask."

I do have to count ten sometimes if suddenly six of my chatty girls are waiting for the bathroom at the same time (interactive bladders, I suppose), or I ask each child before outside time if they need to go. As soon as we get outside, someone needs to go. Which means we all have to go back in to let them go.

And as for my own bathroom needs, I go before I leave home, at lunch time, and maybe when an earlier scheduled coworker leaves for the day (and that isn't even everyday). In an emergency, I could call the office and they'd "try" to get someone down there. Usually it isn't worth the hassle.

[boysmom2]

Originally Posted by 2lil'monkeys

You should have your mom write a note to the teacher telling her to let her daughter use the bathroom whenever she needs to. I thought it was illegal to keep students after school in California? I just know that in my district, we can't even keep students in at recess for any reason.

Here's my bathroom policy (I teach 2nd grade) - students are given 2 bathroom sticks (popscicle sticks with their numbers on them) on Mondays. If they have both bathroom sticks on Friday, they get two raffle tickets. If they have one, they get one raffle ticket. If they have none, no raffle tickets. We have a raffle drawing at our school once a week for little things like pencils. The kids LOVE raffle tickets!

I also give pretend money for things like returning homework, remembering to return forms, sharing, etc. They're supposed to save their money for a big store that all of 2nd grade will have at the end of the year with old toys that the families donate throughout the year. If students use up both bathroom sticks, they then give me a penny whenever they want to use the bathroom during class time. (The pretend money also teaches them how to count money, a second grade standard!)

I also put 5 marbles in the marble jar if no one in the class has to use the bathroom within 20 minutes after recess. When the jar fills up, they get a marble party. I also remind them right before recess to get water and use the bathroom.

Anyway, these things work for my classroom. There are those students that do abuse bathroom privileges. I teach in an open pod school, and the students like to roam around and look at what the other classrooms are doing. But, definitley write a note to the teacher, because I would certainly give special priviliges to someone who had bladder problems.

Wow, this whole thing really bothers me. First, the kids who can hold it get rewarded and the kids who can't get punished. Publicly. How do you think it feels to be the one kid who causes the whole class to lose a marble? I still vividly remember being in 4th grade. We always took a class bathroom break before lunch/recess and then another one about 20 miunutes after we came back to the classroom. For whatever reason I always DESPERATELY had to pee before it was time for that after lunch bathroom trip. Everyday I would politely ask my teacher to go to the bathroom and everyday she would tell me to wait. So, instead of using "silent reading" time to read, I sat at my desk in pain praying that I wouldn't humiliate myself by peeing in my pants.

I understand not wanting kids to use the excuse of going to the bathroom to wander, etc., but I think that needs to be dealt with on an individual basis, not as a blanket policy.

And the pretend money... Why do we think that kids need to be rewarded for doing their work? Shouldn't they do it because that's what they're supposed to do? We share because that's how we should treat others and how we hope others will treat us. Not because someone's going to give us something for it. What's wrong with just being proud of a job well done? Without being bribed for it?

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

Knowing where a child is and denying the child the right to be there are two different things. Knowing where the child is and rewarding a child for not being there when he or she should be are two different things. Knowing where a child is and punishing a child for being where the child needs to be are two different things.

No one is advocating denying a child the right to use the bathroom when they need to actually use the toilet. Some of us seem to realize that children sometimes use the restroom for other reasons and accept that teachers need to regulate that aspect of it.

I think it is also important for schools to teach children to plan/think ahead in lots of areas, be that taking the book you need for homework home or using the restroom during recess so you don't have to leave class to do it. Its not like schools expect children to sit at their desks for 7 hours and never need to urinate. There are times provided for using the restroom and I think its important for kids to learn to do things like visit the restroom before they run out to play. And I have no problem rewarding students for taking that initiative.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom

No one is advocating denying a child the right to use the bathroom when they need to actually use the toilet. Some of us seem to realize that children sometimes use the restroom for other reasons and accept that teachers need to regulate that aspect of it.

I think it is also important for schools to teach children to plan/think ahead in lots of areas, be that taking the book you need for homework home or using the restroom during recess so you don't have to leave class to do it. Its not like schools expect children to sit at their desks for 7 hours and never need to urinate. There are times provided for using the restroom and I think its important for kids to learn to do things like visit the restroom before they run out to play. And I have no problem rewarding students for taking that initiative.

Well I taught in a school for three years, and the vast majority of kids were just fine using the bathroom responsibly.

The ODD time kids were starting to try to conference in there or getting obsessed, it just took a quiet word with them (asking if there was a problem) to sort it out, or a reminder to the class. It's really not like there are hoards of kids rushing there. (Even when the "paper towel balls on the ceiling" phase hits, usually during a recess.)

The problem with treating bathroom breaks like they can always be planned is that... they can't always be planned and it can be extremely humiliating. Kids' bladders develop at different times, they may be drinking more one day... it's not really all that planable for all kids.

The idea that not going to the bathroom is "currency" for treats and stuff is just a little crazy to me for reasons people have already expressed.

I'm glad it was just a substitute teacher, but I think I would probably mention it to the principal.

[MattBronsil]

2 tips to staying healthy:

Wash your hands and drink lots of water.
Just don't wash your hands in the bathroom and just be sure the water does not have to ever escape your body ;-)

Again, just throwing a little humor into this. I will reply to specific posts, but right now- heading out to dinner to celebrate a new president. ::

[pixiekisses]

That's completely insane. If you have to go, you go. End of story. That's how it is in all the schools here.

[waiflywaif]

Here, too. My kid's kindergarten classroom has the bathroom right inside, which I like---no potential to wander the halls, etc.

[moonshoes]

Originally Posted by 2lil'monkeys

Here's my bathroom policy (I teach 2nd grade) - students are given 2 bathroom sticks (popscicle sticks with their numbers on them) on Mondays. If they have both bathroom sticks on Friday, they get two raffle tickets. If they have one, they get one raffle ticket. If they have none, no raffle tickets. We have a raffle drawing at our school once a week for little things like pencils. The kids LOVE raffle tickets!

I also give pretend money for things like returning homework, remembering to return forms, sharing, etc. They're supposed to save their money for a big store that all of 2nd grade will have at the end of the year with old toys that the families donate throughout the year. If students use up both bathroom sticks, they then give me a penny whenever they want to use the bathroom during class time. (The pretend money also teaches them how to count money, a second grade standard!)

I also put 5 marbles in the marble jar if no one in the class has to use the bathroom within 20 minutes after recess. When the jar fills up, they get a marble party. I also remind them right before recess to get water and use the bathroom.

Anyway, these things work for my classroom. There are those students that do abuse bathroom privileges. I teach in an open pod school, and the students like to roam around and look at what the other classrooms are doing. But, definitley write a note to the teacher, because I would certainly give special priviliges to someone who had bladder problems.

Quite frankly, if you were my daughter's teacher, I'd be pissed. This is ridiculous - students have to pay you to use the bathroom? One child who needs to use the bathroom ruins the marble jar for the whole class? Ugh. Who is this serving? certainly not the students. This is exactly what I would fear about sending my kids to public school - ridiculous ubercontrolling teachers who use rewards and punishments for things like bodily functions. FWIW, I have taught in both public and private schools and never had to resort to silly things like bathroom marble jars to manage my classroom.

[angelpie545]

Originally Posted by moonshoes

Quite frankly, if you were my daughter's teacher, I'd be pissed. This is ridiculous - students have to pay you to use the bathroom? One child who needs to use the bathroom ruins the marble jar for the whole class? Ugh. Who is this serving? certainly not the students. This is exactly what I would fear about sending my kids to public school - ridiculous ubercontrolling teachers who use rewards and punishments for things like bodily functions. FWIW, I have taught in both public and private schools and never had to resort to silly things like bathroom marble jars to manage my classroom.

Exactly. I think it was *highly* irresponsible any school to allow a policy like that. If you have to go, you have to go. There are very few children who abuse bathroom privileges and those who do usually have other issues as well. It's never healthy to "hold it" when you have to go. Policies limiting bathroom usage are abusive and potentially damaging to a child's health.

[pixiekisses]

Yeah, that, what they said, the last two posts over here.

[1littlebit]

holy cow! why would you not let a kid go to the bathroom? i can see setting limits as in one kid out at a time or something but only getting two br sticks for a whole week??

in second grade i asked to go to the bathroom and my teacher told me to finish my worksheet first. i really really really tried and i ended up wetting my pants (skirt actually) and i never told anyone. I went through the rest of the day soaking wet and worried someone would notice that my desk chair and surrounding area were wet.

i switched schools for fourth grade (not b/c of that though lol) and in that school we had bathroom passes. REALLY REALLY BIG bathroom passes. one for boys and one for girls. we didnt have to ask to go to the bathroom (disrupting and can be embarrassing... plus no one should have to have permission to relieve themselves) you had to take the bathroom pass and go to the closest bathroom to your class. this worked well b/c if someone saw you wandering around with a bathroom pass not near a bathroom they knew you weren't where you were supposed to be. the only limitation we had was one person of each gender out at a time. i think anything else is very extreme and unnecessary.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by moonshoes

This is exactly what I would fear about sending my kids to public school - ridiculous ubercontrolling teachers who use rewards and punishments for things like bodily functions. FWIW, I have taught in both public and private schools and never had to resort to silly things like bathroom marble jars to manage my classroom.

Um... maybe you could find a way to phrase that a bit more politely? You are calling a fellow MDC mama names here and ridiculing her teaching policies. She was nice enough to share her ideas. You are certainly free to disagree but it would be nicer for everyone to be polite.