Dr. Sears Vax Talk

[CanidFL]

I’ve been meaning to post this for a few days now. I saw Dr. Sears at a LLL conference over the weekend and overall I was pretty impressed. He was very open about NOT vaxing and selective vaxing. Maybe it’s because of the crowd he was talking to? I’m not sure.

Here are some of the pro’s:

• He said he supports parents who choose not to vax at all
• He did talk about exemptions although not as much detail as I would like
• He said that if you delay vaccines for 2 years than your chance of contracting something and it being fatal is pretty much 0 so at that point you don’t even need to vax
• He talked about how diseases like polio and diphtheria are not even around anymore and you just need to choose to do this for public health or not at all but you can wait till the teen years for these
• He said that you should never get a flu shot with mercury and if a mercury free isnt’ available then don’t get it at all
• He does not support the CDC schedule and does not support combo shots except the Dtap because he feels pertussis is needed on schedule
• He talked about delaying HepB until teen hood
• He was saying that since his book came out the supply for M M R separately is gone and they won’t have any more shots until 2009 or 2010
• He said in this case he would SKIP the vaccines until they are ready regardless of age
• He explained that if you do a very delayed schedule (like 4 years) you really only need 10 vaccines total
• He said that if you are pregnant or an adult woman you should NEVER get the rubella shot due to arthritis concerns

Now the cons:

• He said more than a few times “this disease is not a fatal disease and the vaccine is really not needed” but then he has it on his schedule. That really made me angry. So contradicting.
• He talked a lot about public health and said the only reason you need to do this is for public health which I strongly disagree with. He even said this when talking about mumps!
• He recommends the HPV vaccine and called it a cervical cancer vaccine
• He went a little too far when he said that unvaxed children that go to the nursery at church are at the same risk level as daycare kids and should be vaccinated with dtap, meningitis and flu
• He recommended the chicken pox vaccine although he did say he was concerned with the rise in shingles
• He recommended the rotavirus vaccine….WTF?
• He did not clearly explain that you can do a few vaccines and then claim a religious exemption. He just made a joke about “finding religion”. He also stated that the State of Florida can challenge you on your religious exemption which is just not true.
• He said MANY times that “you need this one for school”

Overall I was very pleased with the info he presented. It was a fair analysis. I hate how he talked about how mild the diseases are and then goes on to recommend them but oh well. I would recommend people go to his presentation if they ever get a chance.

[abomgardner417]

Thanks for posting this...it's interesting. This is the way I kinda felt about his book too. Lots of good info, but at the same time I felt he was saying "It's not really bad, but you need the vax." It kinda put me off a little bit. Still, it's nice to know there's a high profile ped out there that is willing to stand up for changes in the way we look at vaccinations.

[Marnica]

I am not a big Sears fan...I think he contradicts himself left and right. I'm glad he is open to not vaxing and supports delaying, but at the end of the day he still makes $$ from vaccines so Im not sure how I feel about his contracdictory info.

[alegna]

Very interesting... he actually said you need polio for public health reasons?

B/c the current polio vax doesn't prevent transmission

-Angela

[CookAMH]

Interesting comments. Strange contradictions! Even in the pros, it looks like he said if you wait till 2yo, you don't need any since none are likely to be fatal, but then it seems he also said if you wait till 4yo, you only need 10.

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by alegna

Very interesting... he actually said you need polio for public health reasons?

B/c the current polio vax doesn't prevent transmission

-Angela

I think his point was if 100% of people are vaccinated than no one can get it. But we all know the vax isn’t 100% so that is faulty logic. But he mentioned that if 300 million people stopped vaxing than polio could make a comeback in 10 years or so.

Originally Posted by CookAMH

Interesting comments. Strange contradictions! Even in the pros, it looks like he said if you wait till 2yo, you don't need any since none are likely to be fatal, but then it seems he also said if you wait till 4yo, you only need 10.

Right. I think he was saying that if you are trying to get all the shots required for school and wait till your child is 4 than you only need 10 vaccines to be considered complete and up to date which isn’t bad when you compare it to the 94 or so they get before 5 on schedule. I have not looked at the schedule and added it up but he said to refer to the pink book “catch up schedule” and that is how he came up with the 10 vax after 4.

I agree that it bothers me how he is so contradicting but I think he just needs to keep the pro vax side alive or he would not be credible anymore KWIM? I wonder what would happen if he took an anti vax stance? I doubt so many people would buy his book. And overall I think he’s doing a good thing. If mainstream parents are getting his book and decide to go with his schedule, the chance of a baby reacting is a lot less than if they went with the CDC schedule. Or even better if they went with the 10 shots after 4!

I am still anti vax but it was a pretty good presentation.

[peainthepod]

It does sound very contradictory but I agree that his work is good in the sense that it might make mainstream people question their doctors, do their own research, or at least not blindly follow the CDC's insane vax schedule.

Most people don't want to do the research themselves--it's too much work, too much responsibility. And anyway, isn't that what they pay their doctors for? : Sears contradicts himself and some of his vax info is just plain wrong, but at least he's getting people to maybe ask questions. Once you start down the road of thinking critically about your child's healthcare and questioning mainstream norms and "common knowledge", it can be hard to turn back--which is great!

[jessjgh1]

He presented at the LLL conference here too.
He admitted that he didn't have good data comparing ff babes to breastfed babes-- but 'guessed' that if he did the outcomes would be even better for breastfed babies-- ie the risks of vpd would be even lower than the stats he uses.

Jessica

[ema-adama]

I'm just gonna jump in here and say that I have never heard him talk, but I have emailed him with questions about VPD and vax as it became clear to me that the information in his book is incorrect. He was very arrogant in his reply and when I gave him more specifics on why DTaP does not prevent transmission making it unnecessary for parents to be vaxed - he just stopped correspondence. It was a bit weird. (or maybe I was to expect a real discourse with a doctor through email?)

Still, it would be awesome to have him as a ped instead of the poorly informed ped I have now - who took the time to tell me how sorry I would be when my son was at death's door with a VPD. END OF DISCUSSION. :
I also like that Sears is so pro BFing and BFing until 2

[Pariah]

Originally Posted by CanidFL

I agree that it bothers me how he is so contradicting but I think he just needs to keep the pro vax side alive or he would not be credible anymore KWIM? I wonder what would happen if he took an anti vax stance? I doubt so many people would buy his book.

That's what I thought, too...he's trying to cater to both sides. That's the impression I get, anyway.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by CanidFL

I think his point was if 100% of people are vaccinated than no one can get it. But we all know the vax isn’t 100% so that is faulty logic. But he mentioned that if 300 million people stopped vaxing than polio could make a comeback in 10 years or so.

Except that the current vaccine doesn't stop it from circulating at all. It just stops the paralytic symptoms....

-Angela

[CanidFL]

oh yeah...I totally forgot about that. It's been so long since I read about the polio vax

[xmasbaby7]

I saw him speak at LLL meeting, too, and I was pleased that it was better than I expected.

He is very savvy about walking the party line to appeal to as many people as possible (the non-vaxing, the s/d vaxing, and the medical community), but I think those skills come at the cost of him truly thinking what his recommendation would be for individual benefit vs. "public health".

I want to give him credit for being smarter than he sounded sometime, so I will speculate that he doesn't say what he really thinks to protect his professional reputation with fellow docs, the media, and big Pharma. He wouldn't want to invite the targeting that someone like Jenny McCarthy has endured with Jay Gordon at her side.

The Sears Books are very steady business for its publishers, and the Sears brand needs to remain in the mainstream enough to maintain sales.

Just my 2 cents.

[soxthecatrules]

[*]He went a little too far when he said that unvaxed children that go to the nursery at church are at the same risk level as daycare kids and should be vaccinated with dtap, meningitis and flu


Sorry...but I have to agree with him on this one and I'm not at all a Dr. Sears fan. IMHO....Childcare is childcare is childcare, no matter whether its in a daycare center or at a church nursery. I work part-time and my children are in daycare approx. 15-20 hours a week. To be honest my DS has caught more "bugs" at the church nursery than he ever has at daycare. Remember, just because you maybe a SAHM doesn't mean that the rest of the kids in the church nursery are. Just something to think about.

[Deborah]

Well yes, but how many of the bugs at a church nursery have a related vaccine? There is no vax for the common cold, for example.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by soxthecatrules

[*]He went a little too far when he said that unvaxed children that go to the nursery at church are at the same risk level as daycare kids and should be vaccinated with dtap, meningitis and flu


Sorry...but I have to agree with him on this one and I'm not at all a Dr. Sears fan. IMHO....Childcare is childcare is childcare, no matter whether its in a daycare center or at a church nursery. I work part-time and my children are in daycare approx. 15-20 hours a week. To be honest my DS has caught more "bugs" at the church nursery than he ever has at daycare. Remember, just because you maybe a SAHM doesn't mean that the rest of the kids in the church nursery are. Just something to think about.

Actually from my reading they are NOT at the same risk. Part 1 of the risk equation- you're right- just as many bugs.

But part 2 of the risk equation is that babies in daycare are under more stress and THAT increases their chance of illness as well. A couple of hours in a church nursery is not going to be as stressful in theory as 40+ hours a week.

Part 3 of the risk equation is going to be simple hours of exposure- 1-3 hours a week vs. 40+ hours a week....

-Angela

[katiegrace]

OP- Did he say anything about HIB and Pc? I have been going round and round in my head about HIB and Prevnar, and I am about to go crazy going back and forth on doing them, not doing them. I start to feel confident about my decision in not doing it and then I get scared that she will die if I don't do them...meningitis scares me SO much!! Did he mention anything about those 2 specifically? TI"d really love to know what he said, if anything, about all the controversy about the Prevnar vaccine and the new strains that aren't covered in the vax. Thanks!!

[alegna]

Originally Posted by katiegrace

OP- Did he say anything about HIB and Pc? I have been going round and round in my head about HIB and Prevnar, and I am about to go crazy going back and forth on doing them, not doing them. I start to feel confident about my decision in not doing it and then I get scared that she will die if I don't do them...meningitis scares me SO much!! Did he mention anything about those 2 specifically? TI"d really love to know what he said, if anything, about all the controversy about the Prevnar vaccine and the new strains that aren't covered in the vax. Thanks!!

The number 1 issue for those two vaccines is going to be serotype replacement. Total number of cases of meningitis have not gone down with either of those vaxes.

Number 2 issue is that there is almost no hib left any more post-vax. Plenty of Hi (other types) but Hib is pretty much gone.

-Angela

[La Sombra]

But part 2 of the risk equation is that babies in daycare are under more stress and THAT increases their chance of illness as well. A couple of hours in a church nursery is not going to be as stressful in theory as 40+ hours a week.

Angela, I have read others of your posts here on MDC and I think you are very thoughtful and informed, so please don't think I'm attacking you out of hand. I thought, though, that I should question you about the second risk factor that you mentioned. I'm not sure that babies in daycare are under considerably more stress than babies who stay home with their mamas from all that I have read, assuming they are getting love, attention and care with their day care provider. I am a full-time student but am lucky enough to have family to take care of my lo when I have class. Yet I can imagine how working moms might bristle at this suggestion, especially when there aren't any scientific studies to back it up--that I'm aware of, anyway.

As to the first and third points you make, though--I absolutely agree. So, go on girl, explain your point to me! Maybe I misunderstood...

[NYMOM07]

Originally Posted by CanidFL;12506449
[*

He said more than a few times “this disease is not a fatal disease and the vaccine is really not needed” but then he has it on his schedule. That really made me angry. So contradicting.


it is on his schedule for those that want to do it- not necesarily because of his personal beliefs- he is trying to help all people.
[*]He did not clearly explain that you can do a few vaccines and then claim a religious exemption. He just made a joke about “finding religion”. He also stated that the State of Florida can challenge you on your religious exemption which is just not true.


And I am not sure about florida, but in NY they can challenge your religious beliefs, to make sure they are "sincere". Overall, I think his ideas are very good- the best of any pediatrican, since he helps you get what you need for school, if an exemption isnt something you want to do, or you want to delay, and he reassures you if you dont want to vax at all. I like him a lot.[*]He said MANY times that “you need this one for school”[/LIST]
Overall I was very pleased with the info he presented. It was a fair analysis. I hate how he talked about how mild the diseases are and then goes on to recommend them but oh well. I would recommend people go to his presentation if they ever get a chance.

I dont think he is contradicting himself, because he is helping you decide how to vax for the school requirements( if you want to). it seems like he personally believes that you dont need them, but for school, or for those who just want to vax, he is telling you how and when to give them if you want.



thanks for posting!