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pagans who cover? - Page 4

post #61 of 250
Thread Starter 
I think it depends on "why" you cover... in many abrahamic traditions it is the head itself that is covered while in others it is specifically the hair. (a frequently quoted bible verse regarding covering gets into detail about hair/head/modesty/status/socio-religious gender roles, but different traditions interpret that passage differently)

But if you are not covering out of a sense of religious obligation or modesty then I think the "rules" are much more fluid. If you are choosing to cover as a sort of "shield" then it wouldn't matter if you had hair or not... you'd cover whatever it is/to whatever extent was necessary to feel the protection. Or if you were covering during a ritual in which practitioners were supposed to cover X amount with a shawl of Y color then again it wouldn't matter whether or not you had hair.

Batty- my dd2 wont leave anything on her head either. Which is a problem in rural upstate NY come winter.
post #62 of 250
i feel better when i cover. i like these =http://www.modestworld.com/

i used to wear bandanas all the time but the felt to biker. the first time i put on a head scarf after 3 yr of not covering, i tied it so that there was a "ridge" that went across the top of my head.. DH laughed and said some un pc things. so i tied it so it was flat on top and said it looked better and that he would get used to it if i wanted to wear it, and it was better than the bandanas i used to wear. lol

i feel drawn to dressing modestly lately. i want long skirts. underskirts in winter even. although i wont go for long sleeves all the time, i do however want to keep my cleavage to myself.
as a pagan i didnt think i could get away with it. i was afraid someone would get mad thinking i was making fun of someone or religion. i just say it is a fashion statement. it is also my lament to modern girls fashions, with the exposed bottom crack and belly button. it makes me sad.
i also like the "old" look. i feel very feminine like that. esp when i am in the kitchen with a big apron on baking and cooking etc.

i also like http://www.modestclothing.com/cgi-bin/group.pl?id=26

also... i feel like i can shield myself from other peoples energy or energy draining. i feel more confident in public b/c i feel shielded.

and i dont like my dandruff. lol
post #63 of 250
Thread Starter 
Rite of passage I suppose... I had to renew my driver's license and I got a new picture. With my hair covered.
post #64 of 250
LionessMom - Boy, I sure could have used that site last summer. I looked high and low for a long denim skirt. I finally found it as I was driving past a garage sale, for $3! Since then I have found 2 others at the Salvation Army. But I would like to be a bit more dressy than denim sometimes. Thank you for sharing the site!!
post #65 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
Rite of passage I suppose... I had to renew my driver's license and I got a new picture. With my hair covered.
Hmmm, I'm due for mine too. Did they say anything to you about it?
post #66 of 250
Thread Starter 
Nope, and I'm not in a big city or urban area. I was all ready to give a vague "cover my hair for religious reasons" mumble but the lady at the desk didn't even blink. I'm guessing that they're told not to make an issue of anything that isn't going to impact how well the ID photo can be used for ID. So I bet there'd be a discussion if you wanted to have your face covered, but my bandana didn't even rate a "huh".



The picture, of course, was pretty awful... even though it was digital and they took it three times, the final product was still pretty "license photo".
post #67 of 250
:

for some reason, this fascinates me. I'm not to the point of covering, but I've been considering it and feeling sort of drawn... for no particular reason. I like the "protecting from negative energy" thing... that really appeals to me...
post #68 of 250
i have no idea what religion i am but.. pagan is the closest. I am drawn to covering in a big way recently I have no idea why thought. modesty has always intrigued me ... but i don't think that is why i like the idea of covering.. lol. i have been using some fabric i cut to size... it is a little stiff but will do for now
post #69 of 250
Before jumping into the fray I want to first say that whatever anyone chooses to wear is their own business, and I do not want it to look like I'm "against" their decision.

But...it seems to me that the idea of "negative" or "bad energy" is close kin with a lot of Abrahamic or maybe more properly Manichean ideas of good and evil. I guess I'm the sort of Pagan who tries not to see things in terms of "good" or "bad" but to look at the way they interrelate and transform themselves, and how my own perceptions are an integral part of this process. Some folks cast circles to protect themselves from "negativity" or from malignant spirits, but this also has not been a part of my practice mostly because fear of them is not part of my world view...

I had a look at the modestworld hat & scarf selection, and they really had some nice-looking headgear but when I read their pages explaining why it is necessary for (Orthodox Jewish) women to cover their hair I was (personally) really put off. Again, everyone do what they like! And certainly buying a hat from them doesn't mean "buying" their tradition or philosophy.

But I find myself wondering if the urge to cover reveals close kinship with Judeo-Christian ideas that run very deep in our society and continue to structure consciousness even in those who may have explicitly turned away from their religious forms (like most Pagans.) This could even be the case where someone wants to cover as a reaction to revealing fashions, where the binary set has been determined as "reveal/conceal."

Or not? Again, all of these things are of a very personal nature, and one's own experiences or one's role models may well override abstract principles.

As for dandruff (which is caused by a fungus) it is likely that head covering contributes to it. There are natural remedies, and perhaps putting some eo into your headwear would help. As for babies and young children I've observed that those who go largely hatless tend to have thicker, more luxurious hair growth and IMO they are likely to be hardier against the elements and diseases.
post #70 of 250
for me.. at least part of it.. is because i get sort of obsessed with and distracted my my hair.. putting up, taking it down, brushing etc.. this helps me focus on other things. plus they are pretty!
post #71 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by BohoMama View Post
But I find myself wondering if the urge to cover reveals close kinship with Judeo-Christian ideas that run very deep in our society and continue to structure consciousness even in those who may have explicitly turned away from their religious forms (like most Pagans.)
I disagree that "most Pagans" have explicitly turned away from their prior religious training. There's often an initial case of "convert zeal," but not always and it's not always a permanent deal. As I said before, I know several Jews who have become more observant (of Judaism) through ostensibly Pagan practices.

Quote:
This could even be the case where someone wants to cover as a reaction to revealing fashions, where the binary set has been determined as "reveal/conceal."
How do you figure?

Quote:
As for dandruff (which is caused by a yeast) it is likely that head covering contributes to it. There are natural remedies, and perhaps putting some eo into your headwear would help.
Not all dandruff is caused by fungus, but when it is.. yeah, headcovering's probably not a good scene.

Quote:
As for babies and young children I've observed that those who go largely hatless tend to have thicker, more luxurious hair growth and IMO they are likely to be hardier against the elements and diseases.
Absolute myth. I've got four children and the two with the thickest hair are the two who wear hats most often. One has nothing to do with the other. As to being "hardier," I'm going to disagree there as well. If anything, the correlation runs opposite these days-- children who are less resistant to the elements and illness are more likely to be put in hats. (Most kids today don't wear them.)
post #72 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gun View Post
LionessMom - Boy, I sure could have used that site last summer. I looked high and low for a long denim skirt. I finally found it as I was driving past a garage sale, for $3! Since then I have found 2 others at the Salvation Army. But I would like to be a bit more dressy than denim sometimes. Thank you for sharing the site!!
Do you sew?
http://www.xanga.com/connimom/549154...1-cutting.html

I am going to make myself an army of these skirts!
And quite possibly several knee length ones, as well.
post #73 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionessMom View Post
i feel drawn to dressing modestly lately. i want long skirts. underskirts in winter even. although i wont go for long sleeves all the time, i do however want to keep my cleavage to myself.
as a pagan i didnt think i could get away with it. i was afraid someone would get mad thinking i was making fun of someone or religion. i just say it is a fashion statement. it is also my lament to modern girls fashions, with the exposed bottom crack and belly button. it makes me sad.
i also like the "old" look. i feel very feminine like that. esp when i am in the kitchen with a big apron on baking and cooking etc.
I feel the same way.
(Let me start by saying sorry for intruding on a pagan thread, but all of this facinates me because many of you are stating reasons I have for wanting to dress more modestly and to cover my head- because Catholicism doesn't say I "have to", it's become more of a personal devotion)

I am Catholic (as previously state), and sometimes I feel like people would assume that because of the way I dress and cover my hair, I am a Fundamentalist Protestant or an Orthodox Jewess (especially since I think tiechels are just the ultimate in feminine cover!).

But, in my mind, I like to think of how Mary appears in all of the visions/apperitions. She is veiled- and she is BEAUTIFUL!
IMHO- what better model for fashion and feminine beauty than the Mother of God?
post #74 of 250
Thread Starter 
Interesting conversation!

My personal interst in covering has nothing to do with modesty. Seriously... I am not exactly the most "modest" of people if the yardstick is going to be clothing/behavior based. I am modest and ethical by my own standards, but those standards are more in line with Reclaiming or CAW than with, say, an orthodox community. So although I find the discussion of modesty interesting, and am interested in what modesty means within a pagan context, it's not my focus.

I think my analogy of smooring the fire is the closest I can come at this time to articulating my feelings. I am not looking at the world as a good/bad dichotomy but more as a system in which things behave according to their nature. And that nature does not have to be "good" or "bad"... it simply is.

For example, if I stand at the foot of a large waterfall, the spray will make me wet. That is neither good nor bad, it simply is. I can either get wet (which may, at that moment, be good or bad depending on how I feel about it) or I can put on a raincoat and stay dry. Putting on a raincoat does not imply that the waterfall is "bad" for putting out spray. It just implies that I do not, at that moment, choose to get wet and I understand the nature of the waterfall and what happens to people who stand at it's foot.

Or if I walked outside right now, into the snow, the reality is that the heat of my body would be pulled out by the snow and I would be chilled. This isn't good or bad, it's just how heat behaves. If I put on a swaeter before I left the house I'd retain my heat despite the snow and I would not get chilled. Putting on a sweater is a choice that will have real impact, but it is not suggesting that the snow is bad or even that being warm is good.

So accepting that there are places in the world that will make my spirit "wet" or "chilled" or "warm" or "dry" isn't saying that any of these things are in and of themselves good or bad... it's just what is. I can choose to put on a rain coat or sweater, or not.

For me, covering my head is a way to choose how much the energetic landscape I live in will affect me, and in what way. I'm not saying "the world outside my door is full of negative energy that I must keep away", instead I'm saying "the world outside my door is full of stealth waterfalls and unpredictable snow banks and I will carry a coat since I don't know when and where these things will appear and I'd rather not get wet/chilled". Though that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue as nicely as Hamlet's line I know.

I'm not sure if that makes sense... but there it is.
post #75 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post
I am Catholic (as previously state), and sometimes I feel like people would assume that because of the way I dress and cover my hair, I am a Fundamentalist Protestant or an Orthodox Jewess (especially since I think tiechels are just the ultimate in feminine cover!).
Jew. They're called Orthodox Jews.
post #76 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
Jew. They're called Orthodox Jews.
Sorry. I had heard the term "Jewess" used by several female Jews I know, and assumed it was the proper term.
I apologize.
post #77 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
Interesting conversation!

My personal interst in covering has nothing to do with modesty. Seriously... I am not exactly the most "modest" of people if the yardstick is going to be clothing/behavior based. I am modest and ethical by my own standards, but those standards are more in line with Reclaiming or CAW than with, say, an orthodox community. So although I find the discussion of modesty interesting, and am interested in what modesty means within a pagan context, it's not my focus.

I think my analogy of smooring the fire is the closest I can come at this time to articulating my feelings. I am not looking at the world as a good/bad dichotomy but more as a system in which things behave according to their nature. And that nature does not have to be "good" or "bad"... it simply is.

For example, if I stand at the foot of a large waterfall, the spray will make me wet. That is neither good nor bad, it simply is. I can either get wet (which may, at that moment, be good or bad depending on how I feel about it) or I can put on a raincoat and stay dry. Putting on a raincoat does not imply that the waterfall is "bad" for putting out spray. It just implies that I do not, at that moment, choose to get wet and I understand the nature of the waterfall and what happens to people who stand at it's foot.

Or if I walked outside right now, into the snow, the reality is that the heat of my body would be pulled out by the snow and I would be chilled. This isn't good or bad, it's just how heat behaves. If I put on a swaeter before I left the house I'd retain my heat despite the snow and I would not get chilled. Putting on a sweater is a choice that will have real impact, but it is not suggesting that the snow is bad or even that being warm is good.

So accepting that there are places in the world that will make my spirit "wet" or "chilled" or "warm" or "dry" isn't saying that any of these things are in and of themselves good or bad... it's just what is. I can choose to put on a rain coat or sweater, or not.

For me, covering my head is a way to choose how much the energetic landscape I live in will affect me, and in what way. I'm not saying "the world outside my door is full of negative energy that I must keep away", instead I'm saying "the world outside my door is full of stealth waterfalls and unpredictable snow banks and I will carry a coat since I don't know when and where these things will appear and I'd rather not get wet/chilled". Though that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue as nicely as Hamlet's line I know.

I'm not sure if that makes sense... but there it is.
Makes perfect sense!
And I like how you made the distinction between a psychic barrier and modesty.
post #78 of 250
Thank you PatienceAndLove! I think I could sew that, it is so simple and straightforward.
post #79 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gun View Post
Thank you PatienceAndLove! I think I could sew that, it is so simple and straightforward.
That exactly what I thought! I can sew a straight line- and that's all that this skirt is! w00t!

It ends up looking like this when it's done.
And I LOVE the skirt in a really shiny fabric. Tres Chic!
post #80 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by BohoMama View Post
But...it seems to me that the idea of "negative" or "bad energy" is close kin with a lot of Abrahamic or maybe more properly Manichean ideas of good and evil. I guess I'm the sort of Pagan who tries not to see things in terms of "good" or "bad" but to look at the way they interrelate and transform themselves, and how my own perceptions are an integral part of this process.
For me it isn't about bad or good, I'm just very sensitive to out of control energy. Crowds send me into a cranky frantic mess for example. I soak up stray energy flying around like a total sponge, and sometimes it really causes emotional 'moments' for me that are inconvenient. I was never much of a Christian, I went to vacation bible school as a kid and rarely to church so that has never impacted my life or decisions much.

Quote:
But I find myself wondering if the urge to cover reveals close kinship with Judeo-Christian ideas that run very deep in our society and continue to structure consciousness even in those who may have explicitly turned away from their religious forms (like most Pagans.) This could even be the case where someone wants to cover as a reaction to revealing fashions, where the binary set has been determined as "reveal/conceal."

Or not? Again, all of these things are of a very personal nature, and one's own experiences or one's role models may well override abstract principles.
Or definitely not I did turn away from Christianity as a teen, partly because of the hypocrisy I was exposed to in the church. Modesty doesn't enter into the idea of wearing a head covering for me at all... I am *not* a modest person, I like a flash of leg and don't mind my cleavage showing (within reason )
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
Interesting conversation!
I should have just come along and said : behind you clay
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