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Should I pull my daughter out of preschool?  

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I am having a problem at My daughter's Montessori school. My daughter will be five in December. I really need help sorting it all out. I don't want to overreact or underreact...if that makes sense.

Up to this point we’ve loved it at this school. Her teachers are wonderful. She is learning alot. I like the specials day with art, music, environmental education, pe. There are chickens and a garden. They have neat get togethers that really build community. I haven’t however cared for the number of kids/teachers on the playground, but I’ve let everything else outweigh that complaint.

Well Thursday night there was a parent meeting about bullying. We showed up because our daughter has had several complaints about the playground.

When we arrived at the school, a parent was in front of the school handing out a printout of an incident report involving her daughter. She wants everyone to know what happened and how the school is handling it.

On the way in, we read it. Here is what happened:
Tuesday afternoon, a grandma was picking up her grandson at school. They went with the entire class outside to the playground for a few minutes. Shortly after the beginning of recess, the Grandma saw a little girl laying on her stomach underneath a bus metal structure with her bottom bare. Her pants were pulled down to the top of her thighs. Two boys were on either side of her touching her. The grandma asked what they were doing, and they all ran off. That day she told her grandson’s mother. The mother called the director at 7pm with the information. The director called the kids teacher and asked her to interview the kids for what happened.

The next morning (Wednesday), the kids came to school. The parents have still not heard anything about what happened. The teacher individually interviewed them about the incident. She wrote a report summarizing the interviews that was attached to the incident report. The interviews revealed that one of the boys at lunch time had planned with his friends to pull the little girls pants down and touch her during recess. Three hours later, as soon as they got on the playground, they committed the act. The oldest boy was 6 and the other boy was 5. There was a 4 year boy that watched and the little girl was 4. One boy said he went along with it because the boy had said he wouldn’t be his friend if he didn’t. An e-mail was sent out to all of the parents in the room. The parents were then notified by phone in the afternoon (almost 24 hours later!).

At the meeting, the incident is described by the director as follows: “Four children were complicit in acting/cooperating together on the playground in a situation of inappropriate touch. No one acted against their will nor were held against their will as we discovered.”

I brought up that I feel like there are too many kids and not enough redirection from staff when needed on the playground. I feel like that contributes to a free-for-all mentality on the part of the kids. I asked how many kids are on the playground typically (especially during lunch). The director said 60-70. I asked why the playground says the capacity is 46. She acknowledges that the playground is not big enough for the number of kids, but that they can enlarge it. I ask about the number of staff on the playground. During this discussion, I find out that there should be an adult for every 14 kids. Most often I see 3 staff members, some of which take the kids inside for drinks or bathrooming. I’ve seen as few as one staff member on the playground when others are taking in kids. So at this meeting I find out the ratios for kids to adults is lacking. I had no idea that those were the ratios needed. Despite all of these issues and concerns, she says that she thinks the playground is well supervised. I will say that when the incident occurred, it was only one class of kids on the playground. But I think it is telling that the boys PLANNED the act for the playground. I think they know there isn’t a lot of supervision and that is the time to act.


So,

The director knowingly exceeded playground capacity and ratios.

The director dismisses the touching act as cooperative when I think it clearly is not according to the teacher’s account from the interviews.

She didn't notify the parent in a timely manner in my opinion.

She was very defensive and almost hostile towards the mother whose daughter was involved.

The director says they are increasing play space on the playground and the number of staff. Also, she had a meeting with the playground staff to remind them of how and when to take kids to the bathroom.

The main boy that orchestrated the event is still at school.



So if the playground situation is improved, is that enough? Do I let them make that fix and stay at school?

Do I only let my daughter stay until lunch and keep her at the school, but not the playground?

Or do I pull her out?

There is a contract we've signed for the year, but I wouldn't let that stop me from pulling my daughter.

Also, should I make sure all of the other parents are aware of what happened?

What do you think? I really value your opinion.
post #2 of 15
None of the school's responses sit well with me. What happened to that little girl makes me feel quite ill and I wouldn't feel good sending my kid to that school after knowing that.

I think that your gut is telling you that something isn't right.
post #3 of 15
That seems off to me. How did a very young boy even know that touching a girl was something to do? Clearly, the home life of this child could be amiss. Is your daughter in class with these boys? Can ratios be upped so that more supervision is given?

And the director "blaming the victim" here is a bad sign.

I would very much want some assurances that they are on top of this and that such a thing could never happen again.
post #4 of 15
I would take her out, without any doubts or regrets.
post #5 of 15
24 hours until the parents were notified sounds about right as they needed time to find out what happened.

The playground size & number of staff members doesn't bother me.

The directior's attitude about what happened with the girl does and I"d have a big problem with that.
post #6 of 15
Hi mama,
I'm so sad that this is happening. I agree with pp that 24 hours sounds right to notify parents as the school needed to figure out what happened.
I would make a private meeting with director of the school. There I would calmly discuss your concerns with her. One thing I would stress is that you are very concerned about not having enough adults on the playground. Personally, I'd give them a week or two to work out a new plan (and send it home to the parents in writing as well as implement it). If they change, then great, if not, THEN I would start looking for a new place.
~maddymama
post #7 of 15
I agree that it can take time to figure out what really happened, so while waiting 24 hrs to notify parents seems a little long to me, I can see it.

I would be bothered by the ratio of children to adults on the playground and that they are playing in a space that is too small. Are the guidelines for child/teacher ratio and capacity for children on the playground those set forth by the state or just what the school would like to maintain? If they are the state regulations, the school has to follow them. You may or may not feel comfortable doing this, but you could call the state licensing board and report a problem.

Having been a teacher, I would say it is obvious there isn't enough supervision if this happened and it wasn't even noticed by a staff member, but by a grandparent. If you really like the school, I would probably let her stay until lunch and then go home so she doesn't go on the playground.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
I really appreciate all of your different opinions.

I asked the director for a parent handbook. They don't have one right now. They are working on revising it. All they had was a Parent Orientation Handbook for 2005-2006!

I do think the playground is a big problem since there are 60-70 kids that are 3,4,5, 6 year olds with only 3 staff typically. This is for an hour at lunch and an hour in the afternoon. The boy who planned this was 6 and has gone to the school for two years from 7am to 6pm!

My daughter is scared of the playground because of different exclusive behavior from the kids and being hit. She went to a Parent Coop Preschool for two years previously and playground was her favorite thing. She has very good social skills.
post #9 of 15
I would call licensing immediately. They could easily have theirs revoked or be fined for not being within staff to student ratio. I could not *ever* imagine 60 kids in a playground at once!! Holy potatoes! I was a preschool teacher and I cannot even fathom the chaos. I was hard enough with 20 kids and 3 of us. This situation in this school sounds very off. Also, if something happens that requires an incident report, it should go home the same day to the parents of all the children involved. Please, for the safety of the children who will still be at the school, call the authorities. They need a wake-up call. These are the situations where very preventable tragedies can easily occur.
post #10 of 15
I would be gone, without a doubt. I would also call your local licensing agency and report them as well as leave a detailed review of the school online (like with Google) to warn other prospective parents.
post #11 of 15
If I felt my daughter was unsafe at her school I would take her out immediately. It isn't my obligation to 'fix' the school (unless I want to take that on, I suppose) but my daughter is my responsibility.

So sorry you & your dc are dealing with this
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamalemon View Post
I would be gone, without a doubt. I would also call your local licensing agency and report them as well as leave a detailed review of the school online (like with Google) to warn other prospective parents.
: Dh used to work as a manager at a daycare and from what we've observed parents really do need to familiarize themselves with the state licensing guidelines because more often than not many day cares put the bottom line first.
post #13 of 15
I nearly got sick reading this. I would pull my children out so fast -- and be explicit as to why. Okay. I'm going to have to stop even thinking about thsi scenario . . .
post #14 of 15
I would not keep my daughter there. It's clear that there's not enough supervision going on, and the fact that the boy is still there upsets me.
post #15 of 15
It would depend on what they were doing to rectify the problems.

I get the impression that the person handing out the fliers was not present during the incident, and therefore can only base her acount on what she heard. That only one adult (an uninvolved childs grandma) saw any of the incident, and that she basically only saw a small part of what happened. I see no reason to believe that the fliers account of the incident was anymore accurate than the acount the school based on interveiwing everyone involved.

The school has not tried to sweep this incident under the rug and make it go away. Had they done so then you probably wouldn't have heard about it, and wouldn't be considering pulling you DD. They instead had meeting to have it out in the open, and address the issues involved.

If they have a plan about how they are going to improve playground supervision, then I would stay with them. I would ask your DD if she would like you to pick her up before recess, or if she wants to stay.
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