How do you feel about vaccinating in very underdeveloped countries?

[pumpkinhead]

Where access to clean water is not a given and contact with raw sewage is?

[pumpkinhead]

Someone asked me this question this evening and it made me think. This isn't meant as a challenge ftr, I'm just curious.

[Theia]

I haven't figured this out for myself either, and in my case it is a potential situation DD and I could face. I'll be interested to hear how others weigh in on this.

[honeybunch2k8]

I think it's just putting a bandaid on a problem instead of solving the problem itself (nutrition, sanitation,etc.)

I think it can be downright harmful to do it b/c there are some organizations and individuals that have other things in mind besides saving people from disease.

:

[pumpkinhead]

Well, vaccination is cheap compared to providing proper sanitation and nutrition.

[alegna]

I think it's not a simple answer. Of course, the real answer is to provide clean water and sanitation... however it's not as easy as it sounds.

I think individual situations need to be analyzed. There's no one right answer.

-Angela

[Pariah]

Originally Posted by honeybunch2k8

I think it's just putting a bandaid on a problem instead of solving the problem itself (nutrition, sanitation,etc.)

My thoughts exactly.

[honeybunch2k8]

I was going to say that the gov't will help give them some food as long as they'll take our gmos but I'm in a silly mood now.

[Gitti]

Since I truly believe vaccines do only harm and no good, the lack of clean water (most likely also lack of nutrition) would make them even more toxic.

Imo it take stamina to offset the onslaught of vaccines. A child that is not healthy has much less of a chance to rid his body of it.

[pumpkinhead]

I disagree that all types of vaccinations do only harm and no good. I think the idea of vaccination is a sound one. Gain immunity through mild infection in an attempt to ward off serious illness. However, I think that the whole "no sickness, all benefit" that vaccine manufacturers have taken is impossible. Somehow, we are going to be harmed whether it is through legitimate illness or hidden toxins whose harm comes later.

There is no denying that vaccines in third world countries have saved lives. Look at smallpox in India. The question is, what is the cost and is it worth it?

[Nirvana4freedom]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

There is no denying that vaccines in third world countries have saved lives. Look at smallpox in India. The question is, what is the cost and is it worth it?

I would like to know if you have any references for this statement.

I am from India and I know my dad received the Smallpox vaccine. He then immediately got tuberculosis which is said to be very common after having received this vaccine. To top it, I got a different form of TB infection at the age of 3 inspite of getting the BCG vaccine at birth. So I am very much interested in what you know about vaccines and under develpoped countries.

[wallacesmum]

Nirvana4freedom, I think you make a GREAT point! All these discussions involve armchair analysis and assumptions about the developing world, and the former Soviet bloc, from afar. All my data comes from the WHO and the UN, (both of which I loathe btw), and then the occasional assertion about how mothers in such and such a place are so grateful, would give their right arms, etc. How do those on the receiving end of this initiative feel about it? How much information do parents get in these situations?

My feeling is that the pharmas and the WHO/UN collude (both for financial and psychic benefit) to push these vaccinations, tested or not, risky or not, onto folks who haven't had access to a broad range of information (sort of like exposing a virgin population to smallpox, if you will), and then carefully manipulating the follow-up to show a positive result. And who can blame them? They probably mostly believe they are doing good, and they have so very much invested, they couldn't be completely wrong, right?

[FullMetalMom]

My hubby and I are planning to travel quite a bit in central and south america and we know people who have gotten diptheria. It is awful. So that is the one vacc we decided to get our dd. But I think it is pretty obvious that vaccines are not going to make nearly as big a difference as clean water and better nutrition.

[LavenderMae]

I think vaccinating a population that is starving and has no access to clean water is not much of a solution. I am very much for informed consent and that doesn't even happen here (US) inregards to vaccinations and it surely doesn't happen there. I think it is a bandaid solution for sure and I don't think it in the long run will do much to better their lives or keep them well. I think the focus should be on clean water, food and sustainability.
I just don't think injecting people with weakened immune systems due to severe malutrition is a good idea. I wonder how well there bodies can really handle the vaccines.

[Deborah]

which specific vaccines prevent diseases which arise as a result of exposure to raw sewage?

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

I disagree that all types of vaccinations do only harm and no good. I think the idea of vaccination is a sound one. Gain immunity through mild infection in an attempt to ward off serious illness.

Then an injection of specific pathogens only ought to bring about that result. But it does not. When pathogens are injected without adjuvants, the body builds no immunity. It has been tested in Switzerland. Source - Anita Petek Dimmer's ch site.

There is no denying that vaccines in third world countries have saved lives. Look at smallpox in India.

Again, that is not fact. Quarantine is what pretty much eliminated smallpox. The vaccine came after quarantine had done the job.

Originally Posted by FullMetalMom

My hubby and I are planning to travel quite a bit in central and south america and we know people who have gotten diptheria. It is awful.

Even a simple cold is awful in a starving child.
But Diphtheria can get very severe in people who are malnourished, homeless, or alcoholics. Otherwise it is not really an issue.

Look at Russia. The most vaccinated people on the globe up to a time when the USSR fell apart and cause massive job loss, devastation, homelessness, starvation... even some of the most vaccinated got diphtheria.

[pumpkinhead]

Gitti, injecting a chemically weakened or biologically altered pathogen without an adjuvant may not be effective, but injecting a straight pathogen is. However, injecting a straight, healthy pathogen might also result in full blown disease as well.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by Deborah

which specific vaccines prevent diseases which arise as a result of exposure to raw sewage?

All of them. Pretty much every virus is shed in stool. Exposure to raw sewage can expose one to smallpox, measles, pertussis, diptheria, etc.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by Nirvana4freedom

I would like to know if you have any references for this statement.

I am from India and I know my dad received the Smallpox vaccine. He then immediately got tuberculosis which is said to be very common after having received this vaccine. To top it, I got a different form of TB infection at the age of 3 inspite of getting the BCG vaccine at birth. So I am very much interested in what you know about vaccines and under develpoped countries.

Do you have journal access?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...ubmed_RVDocSum

This one may have free full text available
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

[wallacesmum]

Injection of an antigen provokes an immune response, but it doesn't result in immunity, I don't think. The pathogen is covered with antigens, as I understand it. In the early days of vaccine experiments, they tried to inject folks with antigens that had been produced by challenges in other individuals, and it was a big disaster. Hence the adjuvants. Am I mistaken?