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What dog should the Obamas get? - Page 3

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekimballs View Post
Like I said, I just need to see ONE responsible doodle breeder and I'll totally stop criticizing them.

Nobody on this board dislikes mixed-breed dogs. I don't know a single steady poster that doesn't either own one (or more) mixed-breeds or is involved in rescue. I have two myself, one an actual designer dog.

What we dislike a great deal is breeding that contributes to the huge problem of unwanted/homeless dogs in this country. For specifics of how that happens, click on my killing shelter dogs link in my signature.

I couldn't agree more that what you're paying for, when you buy a puppy from a breeder, is the predictability of the experience (the qualities that you feel you must have in a dog) and the support of the breeder. That's the difference between a purposefully bred puppy and going to a pound or shelter. That's your choice as a puppy buyer.

The question is whether the breeder you're looking at actually delivers those two things.
oh totally
post #42 of 65
Am I going to get beaten if I admit that I own(ed) a goldendoodle?

He's a great dog. He lives with my family now because they wanted a friend for their shepherd and I couldn't take care of myself let alone a puppy when I was pregnant. But he is a great dog.

But next dog we get I'm definitely going to research better. This one was kind of an impulse buy.

Don't kill me.
post #43 of 65
You won't get killed. Most people don't know and buy without researching. It's incredibly common, and many of those types of purchases are "impulse buys."

As a result, many of them also wind up in shelters, are killed, left to die, etc. At least yours has a good home.

On the topic of the thread, I do share the hope that they get a rescue dog. I don't know of anyone who ethically breeds such mixes. As far as I am aware there is NO standard of "labradoodle" or any other doodle combination. Nor do I know ANY ethical poodle breeder or ethical lab breeder who would allow their dogs to be bred together, by some third party.

I'm a fan of mutts too - from the rescue or shelter. But, I'd NEVER pay money for one. First, because it's likely to come with a lot of health issues. Second, because it's a very unethical industry - spanning BYB and puppy mills.
post #44 of 65
No, you definitely won't get killed. I think the only people who incur the ire of this board are those who come, ask a question like "Is $1000 too much to pay for a registered goldendoodle?" or "My dog had six puppies and I need to get rid of them," or, best of all, something like "I put my Bichon, who is in heat, in the garage with my neighbor's poodle but I am not sure they mated. How long do I have to wait to know if she's pregnant so I can put it in the want ads?" (which was not on this board but was word-for-word on another board I sometimes post on) and then, when we spend collective tens of hours trying to help they read through 40 reply posts and say "Well, screw you all; I don't care, I'm doing whatever I want; it's just a dog, lighten up."

If you ask a hundred dedicated show breeders, the ones who put their whole lives into dogs, how they got started in dogs, the VAST majority will tell you about the giant mistake they made when they bought their first dog or dogs. Some even BRED crappy dogs before they smacked themselves in the forehead and realized what they were doing was unwise. There's no shame in making a mistake--the only shame is in refusing to do better once you know better.
post #45 of 65
I actually do know of a couple of Labradoodle breeders that i consider responsible. So it can and does happen.

The one my aunt got is from a not so great breeder, and looks juyst like a chocolate lab with a foo-man-choo mustache. She sheds like crazy, but does have some poodle character, like the poodle "lean".

The bottom line is that people who have theses dogs adore them, and if the Obama girls get to grow up with a dog that they love, how awesome for them.
post #46 of 65
I really think a shelter dog is the way to go. I don' think they'd have any problem finding a shelter dog of any particular breed or mix someplace in the country, given this is the First Family Elect.

I just wish I could be there when the rescue volunteer wants to do the home inspection.
post #47 of 65
Speaking of unruly white house dogs… Sounds like the Bush's dog bit a reporter:

http://scottishterrierdogs.blogspot....ey-biting.html

Though it sounds like a combination of poor handling and the reporter not knowing how to meet a dog.

I miss my scotties!

~Julia
post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom0810 View Post
I actually do know of a couple of Labradoodle breeders that i consider responsible. So it can and does happen.
Just point me to them. If they pass the above tests, I'll shout it to the rooftops.

And I really think that saying "the only thing that matters is that they get a dog to love" is not a great idea. That's the kind of thinking we already have, that nobody can ever tell anybody that they're doing something wrong by buying a dog in a particular way, because it's all fine because the dog will get loved. There are millions of dogs dying every year because nobody's willing to say that certain ways of buying a dog are just plain wrong. Not just unwise or maybe a little less than great, WRONG.
post #49 of 65
Yes and you can fight the good fight and rail against all you want, but the fact is, it will. not. change. People do NOT like to be lectured and do NOT like to be told what kind of family member to get or where to get it from. They look at folks who lecture as just that. Folks who lecture.. and they will not absorb any of it.

I USED to feel the way a lot of you do about things, but you know, after SO many years of trying to educate people who don't want to hear it, you just realize that the best you can do is to live and let live. You can give advice when it is asked for, which is the only time it will be accepted, and most of the time even when it is asked for, people are going to do exactly what they want to do, anyway. I understand where you all are coming from, and I was there once. Long ago.

Getting a dog is a very personal decision and there are lecturing dog people all over the place. Especially when you are in a profession of taking care of other people's pets (grooming, handling, training) it is best to keep one's mouth shut and let people do as they please. People will show you their feelings by not supporting your business.

As a vet once told me, the people who get their dogs from pet stores or crappy breeders do not love them any less. The bad breeders will never go away. Support the people once they have the dog, don't lecture them about having gotten it. That kind of idealism will put you out of business really fast. I have never forgotten those words and it was a hard lesson to learn but I get it now.

SO... wherever the Obamas get their dog, I know they will adore it. I for one, do not think that given what that family has accomplished, that ANY person should criticize something so trivial as where they get their dog or what kind it is.
post #50 of 65
Well, sure, really, if that's the way we should do things, then just pack up the UNCF, and better get rid of the Red Cross, and the Salvation Army, and we should definitely shut down all the dog rescues. Because nobody ever changes, and heaven forbid we lose business.

Thus far I've managed to ignore the spiral of silence, and the day I quit doing that is the day I need to get out of dogs (and out of a whole bunch of other things).

If I speak out for something I passionately believe in, it doesn't matter whether I "succeed" in changing every human I come into contact with, and I have no interest in shutting up so more people will like me. Nobody should measure success by how little they challenge other people to think. What matters to me is that I am honest and congruent with my beliefs, even if I'm alone in the wilderness.

If even one person hears what I said and believes it is true (not because I am personally any kind of charismatic figure, but that they were attracted to the truth), that's a victory for whatever dog or sea urchin or kid or sibling they now do better things to or with, but it doesn't change the way I do things. It's not a personal victory for me, because the only winning or losing I get to take credit for is in living my own life the way I should.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that I have no intention to stop lecturing, if that's what you think I do here.
post #51 of 65
Yes, I don't think we should stop being silent about this.

That's like saying "well, circumcision is a very personal decision, so we should stay silent about it too." Or "well, how a nation treats its citizens is a private matter, so we shouldn't lecture them" ... yet many organizations do lecture and inform. If it weren't for such organizations and volunteers, who else would speak for those who can't?

I give out information and pamphlets and advice. I do it in a respectful way, but I make sure the facts get out there.

Dogs cannot speak for themselves - at all. Someone has to be an advocate for them. Where I volunteer, in a GSD rescue organization, we leave pamphlets and information at shelters. I have a ready speech for any moment when someone says "I'm thinking of getting a dog." We've (the rescue) just begun doing a program with schools to educate kids about dogs.

Staying silent only promotes the problem. If I knew Obama personally - I'd lecture him too. Complete with power point presentations.

And, in truth, presenting people with facts does work. Not on everyone. But, if even one or two people change their mind and understand the ethics in this business, then that's two more people who won't pay money into an unethical business and two more people who can educate others. To me, that's worth it.
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekimballs View Post
If even one person hears what I said and believes it is true (not because I am personally any kind of charismatic figure, but that they were attracted to the truth), that's a victory for whatever dog or sea urchin or kid or sibling they now do better things to or with, but it doesn't change the way I do things. It's not a personal victory for me, because the only winning or losing I get to take credit for is in living my own life the way I should.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that I have no intention to stop lecturing, if that's what you think I do here.
Keep lecturing, if that's what you want to call it. If it wasn't for this board, we certainly would have ended up with a dog from a puppy mill or BYB. I'm 100% certain of this.
post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekimballs View Post
And I really think that saying "the only thing that matters is that they get a dog to love" is not a great idea. That's the kind of thinking we already have, that nobody can ever tell anybody that they're doing something wrong by buying a dog in a particular way, because it's all fine because the dog will get loved. There are millions of dogs dying every year because nobody's willing to say that certain ways of buying a dog are just plain wrong. Not just unwise or maybe a little less than great, WRONG.
I totally agree. And this isn't a case of "already have the dog" where it's too late, but they are in the process of getting one.

And after all the stories I've read recently (including here) about shedding labradoodles, I don't see how it's at all a good choice for someone with allergies.
post #54 of 65
I guess I think that there is presenting information, and then there's hectoring. People may be willing to listen to information, but few are willing to hear hectoring. It's all in the delivery.

I'm not talking about what happens here. This is a fairly self-selecting environment. But I see it often in other places, some IRL and some more general internet places like Craigslist.

Unfortunately, I thing people who are passionate about a cause sometimes tend to flock together to gang up on people who don't know better and come across very heavy handed, rather than supportive and informative. People just get defensive and tune right out, and end up being more hostile to the cause.
post #55 of 65
Not to derail from this conversation, which I think is VERY important and I am ALL FOR lecturing when it comes to breeding dogs, but...

Obama just had his first press conference -- and someone asked about the dog! He said there are two considerations: first, one daughter is allergic, so they need something hypo-allergenic. Second, they really would prefer a shelter dog! He said that's hard, because a lot of them are "mutts like me"

How many poodle rescues do you think are are calling him right now?
post #56 of 65
Honestly? None. It's not that they wouldn't want him to adopt, but much of what happens to White House dogs would be less than ideal from a rescue point of view. So they'd want him to approach them so they could interview him (or, more realistically, whoever a primary caretaker would be; I'm pretty positive there's a White House Head of Kennel or Kennel Keeper or something).

I am not sure about Barney but I know Miz Beasley (the younger Scottish Terrier currently at the White House) came from a show breeder; unfortunately there wasn't a lot of publicity around it.
post #57 of 65
Thread Starter 
:
If the purpose of "purebred" is to have consistency in certain traits...
and one of said traits of the "labradoodles" is "not shedding"....
and there are shedding lab/poodle crosses....

then what is the point of a "labradoodle"?
post #58 of 65
Thread Starter 
I wonder if his daughter would actually be allergic to a properly groomed dog in a home that is maintained by housekeeping staff?
post #59 of 65
Hey, I just found this letter that the Golden Retriever Club of America sent Mr. Obama. Hope it helps!
post #60 of 65
I say a Portuguese Water Dog from a quality PWD rescue.
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