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What DOES "Unsocialized Homeschooler" Mean? - Page 2

post #21 of 57
I just don't understand this reaction from people. when I mention the people that I am going to start hs next year with DS#1 their first reaction/response is "well, what are you going to do for socialization?" Like we live in the middle of no where and don't see people for months at a time. Hello!! we go to the grocery store, gym class, art class, we have family that we see at least once a week, we also have several friends we visit regulary.

I just don't get it. Is it just an automatic response? They don't know what else to say so that's what pops out? I try not to be offended since I'm not usually talking to complete strangers and don't want to seem snarky in my comeback but geez it's getting annoying!
post #22 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by sha_lyn View Post
I can usually pick a home schooler or especially a group of home schoolers out of a crowd of kids.
1 they don't segregate by age. you will see older kids playing with and helping much younger kids
2 they tend to not fight to get to something. they often end up getting ran over because they want to patiently wait for their turns
3 they will start up conversations with adults.
Oh can I add to that...they might not be wearing the latest trends in clothing and have this season's hottest toys.
post #23 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post
PS kids need peer approval for thier clothes, dancing at dances, playing with certain other kids, etc. It's really different when kids don't have those pressures. The might appear "unsocialized," but in reality, they are more comfortable in social situations than most because they are comfortable with themselves.
This is a big, if not the biggest, reason we want to jump into hs'ing from the start.
post #24 of 57
One thing I have found is that as parents, you have to take an active roll in the socialization of your children, whether they are home schooled or not. And of course, some kids are more introverted than others.

I have 4 younger siblings were all home schooled. The youngest one is very much introverted, and at the same time, my parents took no initiative to help him with his social skills. He doesn't really have any, and he does poorly in social situations.

The next one is the complete opposite. He is extremely sociable, by nature, kind of like me. We both thrive in social settings. He, on the other hand, is a lot better at relating to adults than I ever was. In fact, I still have a hard time with it, and I AM one. The only adults I ever interacted with were those that were in authority over me. I never saw adults as "regular" people. So even to this day, I get along better with the younger crowd.
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogWife View Post
When people say the kids are unsocialized, what exactly are they saying about the child? A friend (with no kids, no mind) recently FLIPPED OUT when I said that I was thinking of homeschooling and he jumped right on the "socialization" bandwagon and when I said that was largely a myth and stereotype---he said "AH no....I knew some of these people growng up!" I was done with the conversation so I didn't ask him what these kids were doing that was so "unsocialized." But what are people referring to??? TIA
How many people could he have possibly known that homeschooled if he didn't homeschool as well? I would have asked him that. Most people don't run in to HS kids often and if they do then they base what they know about HS on that one family and if it's a good family then it's good in their mind and if it's a bad family then it's bad and they never change their mind about it.

Usually, I try to ignore people like this. There are a lot of great books out there for homeschoolers that go over socialization, some in depth.

The best answer for me is that a child can't possibly learn from kids their own exact age all day long sitting in a classroom. It's like the blind leading the blind. My children are exposed to younger children, older children and adults each day of their lives and THAT to me is real socialization. My children also respect authority figures unlike a lot of children in PS who disrespect their teachers and other authority figures. Kids who hang around kids their own age day in and day out start to get in trouble. They have no way of teaching one another anything except what they have learned in their very short lives.

Another thing you can point out to these kind of people is that they probably don't have a job that they go to each day where they work 7-8 hours with people who are their same exact age, do they? So they are very likely socializing with people of various age groups each day of their life and then there are likely days when they don't socialize much at all. Are they socially inadequate? My children are learning to socialize much like most adults do and they will be better prepared for college and the work force. If they were stuck in a classroom all day long it would be much more 'un'realistic to socialize only with kids their own age, not to mention boring. lol.
post #26 of 57
Our homeschool group has a whole range of kids and personality types. It has nothing to do with the school social pecking order that they are 'missing out on'.

One thing that bugs me to no end is some of my family members who blame every tiny little perceived flaw in DS's behaviour as being due to homeschooling. Recently my BIL was over (very opinionated childless person) and DS was trying to do magic tricks for him and was somewhat monopolizing the conversation there for a bit. I gently told DS to do one more trick and then that we needed a break and he should find something to do for a while and when DS left the room BIL told me something to the effect that if he were in school, he could get BEAT UP a few times and that would solve that problem.

And this happens no matter WHAT **TINY** little 'misbehaviour' DS displays. It's very irritating. As if all kids in school are perfect little angels with adult-like awareness of social rules.

Then again, back when DS was younger, BIL blamed things on us co-sleeping or DS being an only child, so there was always some 'REASON' for everything - and mind you, DS is a pretty great kid, IMNSHO, so this wasn't like him having terrible outbursts or anything, just normal kid stuff.

I think sometimes those 'weird' kids are homeschooled BECAUSE they were 'weird' not that homeschooling made them that way. OR they are HS'd due to very strict religious reasons and those kids would have been judged in school as being 'weird' just the same.

It's funny how everyone 'knows' a 'weird' homeschooler. Kind of like my experience with infertility and everyone 'knowing' someone who after they adopted, had a baby on their own. Even though for the VAST % of people, that does not happen, so the fact that everyone KNOWS someone like this is a bit suspicious
post #27 of 57
I wonder if anyone else has read The Well-Adjusted Child: The Social Benefits of Homeschooling. It's a well-researched clearly-written book addressing all these "socialization" concerns. It's a 2007 publication too, so it's culturally relevant.
post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
. The best answer for me is that a child can't possibly learn from kids their own exact age all day long sitting in a classroom. It's like the blind leading the blind. My children are exposed to younger children, older children and adults each day of their lives and THAT to me is real socialization. My children also respect authority figures unlike a lot of children in PS who disrespect their teachers and other authority figures. Kids who hang around kids their own age day in and day out start to get in trouble. They have no way of teaching one another anything except what they have learned in their very short lives.

Another thing you can point out to these kind of people is that they probably don't have a job that they go to each day where they work 7-8 hours with people who are their same exact age, do they? So they are very likely socializing with people of various age groups each day of their life and then there are likely days when they don't socialize much at all. Are they socially inadequate? My children are learning to socialize much like most adults do and they will be better prepared for college and the work force. If they were stuck in a classroom all day long it would be much more 'un'realistic to socialize only with kids their own age, not to mention boring. lol.
Even before I ever though of hsing, I knew this. Age group socialization is unnatural, man made and just silly. The blind leading the blind so to speak. And it happens nowhere but schools. How do kids without social skills learn them from other kids who also dont have them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaFinch View Post
Our homeschool group has a whole range of kids and personality types. It has nothing to do with the school social pecking order that they are 'missing out on'.

One thing that bugs me to no end is some of my family members who blame every tiny little perceived flaw in DS's behaviour as being due to homeschooling. Recently my BIL was over (very opinionated childless person) and DS was trying to do magic tricks for him and was somewhat monopolizing the conversation there for a bit. I gently told DS to do one more trick and then that we needed a break and he should find something to do for a while and when DS left the room BIL told me something to the effect that if he were in school, he could get BEAT UP a few times and that would solve that problem.

And this happens no matter WHAT **TINY** little 'misbehaviour' DS displays. It's very irritating. As if all kids in school are perfect little angels with adult-like awareness of social rules.

Then again, back when DS was younger, BIL blamed things on us co-sleeping or DS being an only child, so there was always some 'REASON' for everything - and mind you, DS is a pretty great kid, IMNSHO, so this wasn't like him having terrible outbursts or anything, just normal kid stuff.

I think sometimes those 'weird' kids are homeschooled BECAUSE they were 'weird' not that homeschooling made them that way. OR they are HS'd due to very strict religious reasons and those kids would have been judged in school as being 'weird' just the same.

It's funny how everyone 'knows' a 'weird' homeschooler. Kind of like my experience with infertility and everyone 'knowing' someone who after they adopted, had a baby on their own. Even though for the VAST % of people, that does not happen, so the fact that everyone KNOWS someone like this is a bit suspicious
your bil is just a nitpicker who must find fault, sounds like.

I have had the same thought reacently. I was thinking about it one day. I use to think all hsers were "weird". I was watching the kids at our hs group play and they are pretty normal kids. There was one little boy that was kind of unique, but yeah, it dawned on me that probally it wasnt hs that caused his personality but that because of his personality and special needs, his parents choose hs to preserve that. he is a witty, intelligent kid but a little diffrent and in ps would be the one bullied,picked on, singled out, beat up. See, those kids exist in ps or hs, they just fare far better in hs.

I saw this with myoldest ds when he joined an acting troupe, he was younger, but watchign the teens, none of them were 'cool' ya know, they were all quirky in their own way. But they were all comfortable with themselves and they all excepted each other just the way they were, no pressure to conform. I dont know if it was the nautre of that group and acting in general or if those types of kids gravitated to it, but it was great. And there was a mix of hs and ps kids in there.

I watched my own kids this morning playing and reazlied that they may be "weird' by age ten becuase no one will have defeated thier spirits, the silliness will not have been stomped out of them. LIfe will still be fun.
post #29 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by alison_in_oh View Post
I wonder if anyone else has read The Well-Adjusted Child: The Social Benefits of Homeschooling. It's a well-researched clearly-written book addressing all these "socialization" concerns. It's a 2007 publication too, so it's culturally relevant.
No,but its on my list now!!!
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by alison_in_oh View Post
I wonder if anyone else has read The Well-Adjusted Child: The Social Benefits of Homeschooling. It's a well-researched clearly-written book addressing all these "socialization" concerns. It's a 2007 publication too, so it's culturally relevant.



I just ordered it from www.half.com
post #31 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I watched my own kids this morning playing and reazlied that they may be "weird' by age ten becuase no one will have defeated thier spirits, the silliness will not have been stomped out of them. LIfe will still be fun.
That is what we want for our DS.

I do feel that my 13 y.o. nephew is a "young" 13 and happy to be himself and has a lot of interests and friends. He goes to PS, his teachers have said that he is tooooo obsessed with Star Wars, but I don't think it should be wrong to be an "expert" in something like that. Anyways...when he heard that we were thinking of homeschooling, his face dropped and his hands went up and pleaded "NOOOOOO!!" because the only homeschooler he knew was "weird" and had physical tics. My Sil explained to him that the tics probably had nothing to do with being homeschooled---that it may have been the reason he was homeschooled in the first place. Still, it made me feel sad that my good-natured, happy-go-lucky nephew who gets along with everyone would have this attitude. Like, he was taught that everyone deserves respect, but somewhere down the line he learned that homeschoolers were fair game.
post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaFinch View Post
BIL told me something to the effect that if he were in school, he could get BEAT UP a few times and that would solve that problem.
Interesting. When I told one of my son's 1st grade teachers that we were going to homeschool the next year, she was very negative and used that kind of reasoning. She said children need to be around other children so they can constantly get knocked down and not get the idea that they're special. Strange but true, I honestly think it bothered her that he didn't get picked on by the other children - there was a lot of disturbing bullying in that school, but he wasn't a target. His other teacher, though, loved him and was thrilled for us, and said she wished she could quit work and homeschool her own children.

Lillian
post #33 of 57
Just a few more thoughts to toss in...
I often hear the argument from homeschool parents that children don't need same age friends - that they enjoy being with all ages. There's some truth in that, BUT...

It's been my own observation that while it's absolutely delightful and heart warming to see a group of homeschoolers happily playing and including all ages, that doesn't mean they don't also want same age friends - especially, but not only, as they're coming into ages 10 and up. And there comes a time when that can drive them to want to go to school, or demand to go to school, if they're not given good opportunities to have same age friends. I think that's just a natural human tendency. Parents can't just be complacent and tuck into their individual nests, thinking everybody's going to be as satisfied with the arrangement as they are. I've seen that backfire big time, causing families to have to give up homeschooling.

I've also seen budding teens, as young as 10 or 11, get really fed up with having to always be part of groups where the needs of all the younger children have to be met - it can be pretty limiting, and the needs of the older ones can get pretty marginalized. Not only that, but it's not that uncommon for parents to start looking at them as built-in help in looking to the needs of the younger ones. The parents often think of that as helping the older ones learn to enjoy responsibility, and being a great thing for all concerned - but it can get old.

And another issue - but an important one - I've known them to express the passionate need to have some separation from their younger siblings, even though they might otherwise like them and get along with them just fine. Maybe that's just a natural part of individuation.

We had one activity group in which there was some real animosity between parents, because those who didn't have older children didn't understand why there should be a separation of activities. They had their minds made up that their children would do just fine in the older children's workshops - and it was really maddening to try to make them understand that those older children really, really wanted/needed some personal space for a change, with just their own ages, without their younger siblings there. And that was pretty awkward - because obviously no one wanted to have to tell everyone, "Look, Joey is angry about having to have Billy around all the time! He really wants to have some space to himself once in awhile." The ones who didn't have younger siblings weren't as passionate about needing the separation, but they still relished the idea of having that kind of separation for some group activities.

These were all really nice kids - they just wanted their own space for some activities. They wanted it so much that they even developed their own separate teen group that met away from the normal park day with just one parent facilitator. I think that was unfortunate, because it mean that their parents were no longer connected through a park day, and so weren't in close communication about a lot of important issues - it would have been nice for everyone if they had felt supported enough to keep coming to the main park day and having their own space there.

Just some thoughts to mull over as you go...


Lillian

post #34 of 57
Can I just say, while we're talking about the stereotypes and generalizations of homeschooling that are false... We seem to be offering up our own stereotypes and generalizations of PS children. It's not really fair, especially not to children like my dd who is in school and doesn't fit into any of the "children in PS are/act/do..." that have been listed here. I've met only a coupld who are truely like that and my dd makes friends with anyone she meets on the playground, so I've met almost the entire school at least once.
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorprincess View Post
When I hear that term, or the idea of kids who "look" homeschooled, I think of the kids who dress funny and/or in dirty clothes, have bad homegrown hair cut, don't comb their hair or brush their teeth, and have no boundries. ( I only know one family like this, and they have burned through all the homeschool groups in our general area.
These were all of the hs families I knew growing up. I desperately want to homeschool, but DH is still seeing that image of hs. The only other family he knew had children who went to public high school and had a *very* difficult time dealing with the transition, i.e. their parents hadn't prepared them for deadlines, asking permission to go to the bathroom, etc.

So I don't think people who express concerns about socialization are "in the box" thinkers necessarily. They're just responding to their experience with people who are homeschooled, and I think it's only been very recently when the majority of homeschoolers didn't seem like weirdo religious kids.

One of the issues I'm struggling with is how much we will be able to provide activities for our children to do with other children so that they have experience with other people roughly their age. I think it's important that they know a variety of people, but I believe children do need at least some time spent with other children.
post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Can I just say, while we're talking about the stereotypes and generalizations of homeschooling that are false... We seem to be offering up our own stereotypes and generalizations of PS children. It's not really fair, especially not to children like my dd who is in school and doesn't fit into any of the "children in PS are/act/do..." that have been listed here. I've met only a coupld who are truely like that and my dd makes friends with anyone she meets on the playground, so I've met almost the entire school at least once.
I don't see it that way. I think that we're discussing how our hs children get to avoid the socialization/pressures that PS kids get. It's well known that popularity is important to many kids in PS. This can keep them from truly being themselves. How affected they are by the social pressures of school is different for each individual child for sure. It's good that your daughter seems self-assured enough to avoid those pressures. It also speaks well for your school. We're just helping to reassure a parent who may need some reassurance after a bad visit with her BIL. Hopefully, next time he starts in on her, these arguments will come to mind and she'll put him in his place!
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post
I don't see it that way. I think that we're discussing how our hs children get to avoid the socialization/pressures that PS kids get. It's well known that popularity is important to many kids in PS. This can keep them from truly being themselves. How affected they are by the social pressures of school is different for each individual child for sure. It's good that your daughter seems self-assured enough to avoid those pressures. It also speaks well for your school. We're just helping to reassure a parent who may need some reassurance after a bad visit with her BIL. Hopefully, next time he starts in on her, these arguments will come to mind and she'll put him in his place!
It's sort of along the lines of that other thread, Things you can do in homeschooling that you can't do in PS. Have you spent time with the parents of a child who wants to be like everyone else? The parents have the same desire. It's not the school that causes it, it's society. I'm just trying to point out that for the same reason you can't paint all homeschoolers with the same brush, you can't paint all PSers with the same brush.
post #38 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Have you spent time with the parents of a child who wants to be like everyone else? The parents have the same desire. It's not the school that causes it, it's society.
That seems a little...broadly stroked? I am one of many who has nothing against PS kids, but I do have some distrust for public schooling. I didn't pick up on any stereotyping of PS students in this thread.
post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogWife View Post
That seems a little...broadly stroked? I am one of many who has nothing against PS kids, but I do have some distrust for public schooling. I didn't pick up on any stereotyping of PS students in this thread.
Well, there are some people in the thread listing ways that homeschooling children are different from those in public school, a lot of which has more to do with the parents involvement and what they are teaching their children then anything else. That is stereotyping... actually it stereotypes both sides... and it's not fair to any child. I'm pretty sure it's possible to discuss the lack of socialization stereotype without saying things like "I can usually tell the homeschooled kids in a group because..." It's also possible to explain why homeschooling is better for your child without trying to put negative characteristics on kids who do go to school.
post #40 of 57
The most shy and mousy homeschoolers I ever met were a family who had JUST taken their kids out of school. The oldest had just started her freshmen year of highschool when she was taken out. She was extremely quiet, no social skills, dressed like someone's grandma, etc. The only thing that changed after they started homeschooling is that they were happier and a little bit more talkative and friendly. Yeah, there are unsocial homeschoolers...but there are plenty of unsocial schoolkids too. I think your personality is a huge factor and it's annoying when it's blamed on your education.

People ask me about socialization all the time when they find out I was homeschooled. It's ridiculous. I have friends, I'm married...I'm obviously able to carry on a conversation with them...so why is it that my social skills are in question?
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