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At church!  

post #1 of 30
11/9/08 at 4:16pm
Thread Starter 
I picked my son up from his class today and as I was waiting for the long line to clear to pick up my other son we slipped into a class room with only a teacher. As we were sitting my son was telling me about his class and showing me what crafts he did for the day. So, as he's showing me his stuff he shows me a take home thing that has a picture of a heart and inside the heart is a man, a woman, and a child. The man is giving the child a shot. So, I asked the teacher whos class I happened to be in, why in the world the child was getting a shot. The teacher said, " Well the kids learned about trust today, so I guess that picture is about how a child should trust that getting a shot is the best thing for him". What!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay so I get that that is how most people feel, but it is my very trust in God that lead me to believe that vaccinating is not the right thing. I feel like we are so trying to take control of things that we need to just leave in God's hands. We can not control death and disease, only God can do that. Okay, so I asked my son if they talked about the picture and he said yes. So, I asked him what they said about it and he said they told him it was loving. So, apparently I'm not loving because I don't vaccinate my kids. I know I know, I'm probably taking this too far, but I'm really aggrivated about this. I also know that just because my son said it doesn't mean that is what he was told. Although he can tell you word for word every Sunday what is taught to him. I also realize that my son is only 4 and does not think we are less loving for not vaccinating him. Anyway, what would you do about all this? Would you go to the Children's director and have a conversation with her about this or just let it be? I used to be on the Children's ministry leadership team so I know her well. Although they do think I'm a bit wacky for fighting for nursing moms rooms and not being willing to drop my kids at some drop off daycare with people I have never met. Anyway, what would you do and would it have bothered you also?
post #2 of 30
11/9/08 at 4:52pm
I would not equate shots with vaccines. Shots are used for administering many different things- vitamins, hormones, antibiotics, anesthesia...unless you are against all of those treatments in addition to vaccines?

It wouldn't bother me. My DD gets shots of growth hormone every night because her body doesn't make enough on it's own, and she literally stopped growing when she was 6 months old. So, shots can be good things, and that's a message I want my DD to have because she's probably going to be getting them, daily, for a very long time.
post #3 of 30
11/9/08 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri276 View Post
I would not equate shots with vaccines. Shots are used for administering many different things- vitamins, hormones, antibiotics, anesthesia...unless you are against all of those treatments in addition to vaccines?

It wouldn't bother me. My DD gets shots of growth hormone every night because her body doesn't make enough on it's own, and she literally stopped growing when she was 6 months old. So, shots can be good things, and that's a message I want my DD to have because she's probably going to be getting them, daily, for a very long time.

I hadn't thought of it that way. I really do think that the picture was showing a child getting a vaccine though. Especially since the teacher said what he did. Thanks for your perspective. Again, I hadn't thought of it that way.
post #4 of 30
11/9/08 at 6:14pm
I think you know exactly what it meant, and I would say something! I don't see how it was even church related!!!! Sounds like something the teacher is bringing in outside of core teachings, that has nothing to do with why your child and others are there. Sounds like a personal belief being taught as church teachings to children to me. I also think that there is good with needles and vit. Inj. Hormone rep. Ect. That is wonderful, however... Teaching a child to just accept and trust anything being administered??? Desensitizes the right to choice, and blindly following science, not god! Science and god are seperate.!!!
post #5 of 30
11/9/08 at 7:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveyourohana View Post
I think you know exactly what it meant, and I would say something! I don't see how it was even church related!!!! Sounds like something the teacher is bringing in outside of core teachings, that has nothing to do with why your child and others are there. Sounds like a personal belief being taught as church teachings to children to me. I also think that there is good with needles and vit. Inj. Hormone rep. Ect. That is wonderful, however... Teaching a child to just accept and trust anything being administered??? Desensitizes the right to choice, and blindly following science, not god! Science and god are seperate.!!!
When I showed my husband he said, "that is not even biblical", and he's right. It was actually a lesson from the Show Me Jesus curriculm. I read later after posting this what was written on the front of the handout. At the top it says God is Always Faithful. It talks about how Moses sent 12 spies to explore canaan. It talks about how some of the spies told the Israelites that they could not live in Canaan. It also talks about how two of the spies told them it was okay to live there. The Israelites decided to listen to the people telling them they couldn't live there. It then goes on to say, God forgave them, but he punished the grown-ups who did not trust him. Then you open it and read Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and then see the picture of the heart with the man, woman, and child and the child is getting a shot. The man is putting the needle in the childs upper arm. I'm not sure if you get vitamin shots and other things there or not, but I think for most people you immedietly think of vaccines. Maybe I'm overthinking this one, but I think I need to say something. Especially since it's not biblical. If nothing else point that out.
post #6 of 30
11/9/08 at 7:56pm
oh I'm sure it was meant to be a vaccine, but my point was I would un-brainwash my child by telling them it was vitamin A for a child with measles or something
post #7 of 30
11/9/08 at 8:08pm
I don't think you are over reacting at all!!! Honestly there are way better ways to have taught that lesson. I would have been just as upset if that had been taught in public shool. Its propoganda, don't feel bad for feeling the way you are, I see it the same way.
post #8 of 30
11/9/08 at 8:39pm
Oh, mama! I hear you! Just this morning, my church bulletin had a blurb about how adults need vaccines as much as kids do. I'm actually glad that they threw in a defensive statement about how vaccines are perfectly safe--that draws attention to the fact that they're actually controversial!

Still, I know how you feel about wondering what to do. The announcement came from our parish nurse, who's obviously steeped in medical culture and believes that she's doing the right thing. But it really isn't directly related to my faith. I'll probably end up staying silent about it, at least until it happens again. I'm really not sure, though. I just thought I'd tell you that I'm in your shoes!
post #9 of 30
11/9/08 at 10:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Oh, mama! I hear you! Just this morning, my church bulletin had a blurb about how adults need vaccines as much as kids do. I'm actually glad that they threw in a defensive statement about how vaccines are perfectly safe--that draws attention to the fact that they're actually controversial!

Still, I know how you feel about wondering what to do. The announcement came from our parish nurse, who's obviously steeped in medical culture and believes that she's doing the right thing. But it really isn't directly related to my faith. I'll probably end up staying silent about it, at least until it happens again. I'm really not sure, though. I just thought I'd tell you that I'm in your shoes!
Wow! I would definantly have to say something about that, I think. I do understand wanting to be quite though. You ladies have convinced me that I am calling my children's director and having a talk with her. Thanks for the comments. Keep them coming.
post #10 of 30
11/9/08 at 11:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by justice'smom View Post
Wow! I would definantly have to say something about that, I think. I do understand wanting to be quite though. You ladies have convinced me that I am calling my children's director and having a talk with her. Thanks for the comments. Keep them coming.
And if you do call please post an update as I'm sure many of us would be interested to see what her point of view would be and/or how she defends it.
post #11 of 30
11/10/08 at 1:31am
While it's true that shots can be used to administer a variety of things, most children and adults will probably equate a picture of a child getting a shot with vaccines, since for most children those are the only shots they get routinely. I personally would be bothered by seeing something like that in church (even if I did vaccinate my children) because it really doesn't have anything to do with Biblical lessons. I also don't think it's good to encourage blind trust in adults, and those lessons kind of reinforce that sentiment.
post #12 of 30
11/10/08 at 2:07am
I was going to say the exact same thing as Beth; though there are plenty of shots, most kids only see a needle for vaccines. Thus any curriculum using imagery like that is going to be interpreted by 4-year-olds from the perspective of their own experience and within their own context. So yeah, I think the shot is inappropriate. There's really no way to disentangle it from vaccines, which the makers of the program should have been aware are controversial among parents. That the curriculum folks went ahead with this image anyway suggests to me that they are either 1. ignorant or 2. into indoctrinating the kids about vaxes. Neither choice would be my preferred religious educator.

To tell you the truth, I was ready to get up in arms about this project from the man and woman part. I started out wondering why it was posted in the vax forum, hehe. Oh, we learn so many political lessons in preschool.
post #13 of 30
11/10/08 at 2:27am
I find it very bizarre that any type of injection would be depicted at Sunday school. I can't say for sure how I'd feel about it but I would find it odd. Most likely would inquire as to why it was being used. Strange.
post #14 of 30
11/10/08 at 2:40am
I have to agree that is just wrong... It has NOTHING to do with God, the bible or church. I would have pulled someone aside and said something. My church would never put anything about vaccines in their bulletons or lessons!!
post #15 of 30
11/10/08 at 2:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelpie545 View Post
While it's true that shots can be used to administer a variety of things, most children and adults will probably equate a picture of a child getting a shot with vaccines, since for most children those are the only shots they get routinely. I personally would be bothered by seeing something like that in church (even if I did vaccinate my children) because it really doesn't have anything to do with Biblical lessons. I also don't think it's good to encourage blind trust in adults, and those lessons kind of reinforce that sentiment.
I agree that the picture couldn't have been intended to depict anything but vaccination. However it made me laugh to think of what my kids would think. I think only my 13 year old would be savvy enough to figure out what it was since my kids have never had shots of any kind and don't see doctors routinely. It wasn't until this last year that it even came up in conversation "mom, what are vaccinations?"

Laura
post #16 of 30
11/10/08 at 10:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovbeingamommy View Post
And if you do call please post an update as I'm sure many of us would be interested to see what her point of view would be and/or how she defends it.
I talked to my husband last night about going in to talk to the Children's director and to my suprise, he said he wanted to go in too. You have to understand the shock of that. My husband thinks I'm overreacting about everything. I plan to make an appt for this week, so I will give you ladies an update soon.
post #17 of 30
11/10/08 at 12:35pm
I am really really happy that you are both going in... I re read what you wrote on the lesson... it actually sounds to me like the entire lesson was created for the teaching of accepting vaccinations... This concerns me.
1. It def. isn't biblical, in fact, there is more biblical to back not vaccinating than vaccinating!

2. If you don't say something, and others in the same spot, this could become a bigger issue... and not just in your church but others.

We are taught to follow the spirit in all things, and that is exactly what we have done. Vaccinations are against my religion personally! For some within my same religion, they are not. But that is alright... Religion is a very personal matter, so is science and medical! Within our religion we are not allowed to bring in object lessons that fall away from the core teachings of the church...(I am sure it is in yours as well) this is what it seems to me in your case. SO don't feel like you are doing something wrong by bringing up the obvious, even if you are given a hard time. You actually may find that you are not the only parent who feels this way! And if you do feel that way... you have a support group here, of mothers and fathers who feel exactly the same way!

I hope all goes well... and so happy to hear that hubby is on board!!! That should say a lot to you! What a wonderful man!

Let us all know how everything turnes out...

I know it sounds silly, but... I am proud of you!!! I hope if the situation ever arises for our family, that we will handle it as you both are. :
post #18 of 30
11/10/08 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelpie545 View Post
I personally would be bothered by seeing something like that in church (even if I did vaccinate my children) because it really doesn't have anything to do with Biblical lessons. I also don't think it's good to encourage blind trust in adults, and those lessons kind of reinforce that sentiment.
this.
post #19 of 30
11/10/08 at 8:06pm
Thread Starter 
Okay so my husband and I are back and here is the update. First, we met with the teacher and the Children's director. They both agreed it was controversial and that the makers of the curriculm should have come up with another image. Neither the teacher or the cd had seen it for themselves. It was a handout that the parents are supposed to go over with their kids at home. Which we almost always do. We did not know though if that image was shown to the children and the teachers taught off it. Thankfully that was not the case. What the teachers taught was absolutly biblical. So, at this point the cd is going to give me the e-mail address for the makers of the curriculm and I am going to e-mail them about it. Both the teacher and the cd thought that the makers should be aware of it. So, I guess that is my next step.

loveyourohana, thank you for your encouraging words. Sadly I don't stand up for everything I should, but I do try. Thank you all for your comments. It definantly made me know for sure that something needed to be said.
post #20 of 30
11/10/08 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bri276 View Post
I would not equate shots with vaccines. Shots are used for administering many different things- vitamins, hormones, antibiotics, anesthesia...unless you are against all of those treatments in addition to vaccines?
Here in Georgia, they say shots instead of vaccines. I cannot stand it because I am from CA and shots and vaccines were not used interchangeably.
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