Teaching Piano to 4 3/4 yo

[CT Mommy]

Hi,

My dd has recently indicated that she would like to learn how to play the piano. I took very traditional piano lessons for about 15 years growing up and still play from time to time (mostly "kids" music that they like, sing and dance around to). Since she is still pretty young, I looked into Suzuki lessons, but I couldn't find a teacher who was a good fit, plus they are VERY expensive. Most traditional teacher's whom I've found don't work with kids so young.

So, I was wondering should I teach her? And how? As I mentioned, my piano upbringing was very traditional--reading notes/theory etc., I'm not sure if that will work for her yet. Is there a piano teaching program available for hsers for a child not quite 5?

THANKS!

[smeisnotapirate]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=995129

[simple living mama]

I play by ear so I won't get the opportunity to teach my kids how to read music but you on the other hand can and should. The only thing I would do is not take it too serious at first. Have a lot of fun goofing around at first. I would make it as enjoyable and inviting as possible and just slowly start introducing instruction.

I've only been able to have fun and play with my 10 and 11 year olds. I have to say, they love the piano and for not knowing how to read music, they do amazingly well figuring out how to play a song they here.

[MusicianDad]

I'd avoid learning notes just yet. She can do it, but it's best to start with fun games that teach the basics of the panio first. Making up a fun game to learn what the notes sound like, the difference between eigth notes, quater notes etc., the difference between black keys and white keys and the names of the notes. DD made up a song for the different notes in an octive because she kept going up to H and I... Apperely I have a unique piano

[BananaBreadGirl]

I started piano with my mom at age 4, started taking lessons at age 5. We used the Bastien piano series which has a special primer book for younger beginners. It moves at a slower pace over two books instead of one. I think it says ages 5-6 though. I have also heard that the "Music Tree" series is helpful for teaching note-reading.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by CT Mommy

Is there a piano teaching program available for hsers for a child not quite 5?
THANKS!

My kids were all busily starting Suzuki violin by age 4, so for them piano was a recreational supplement at that age. But one thing we did that I thought was wonderful was Alice Kay Kanack's "Musical Improvisation for Children." Amazon carries it. It's a book (for the guiding parent or teacher) and a CD set and it is the perfect antidote to a parent's rigorously traditional background. Basically it helps children learn to listen to music and connect with it, and to make their own in response to the musical and story ideas they hear. It's a keyboard-based program, but with almost no formal theory or note-naming involved. The premise is "there are no mistakes" and "anything goes" ... yet the exercises are absolutely inspired. There's an animal associated with each of the musical scales / modes, there are mythical stories told with instrumental music motifs, and there are amazing exercises like "play along, using any white notes between D and D [mark with small stickers]" and "make a sound like thunder, then like rain."

For us MIC was the perfect foray during the not-quite-ready-for-real-lessons phase of piano learning. My 5-year-old still recognizes phrygian mode when she hears it because "it's in the same scale as the Bull." And she had all sorts of intuitive keyboard smarts that are serving her very well as she's moved into formal study.

Miranda

[Bekka]

There's another fun series that I started my 2nd dd on at 4 (I also play) called Music for Little Mozarts. I didn't use all the books, and we left off that series in about a year when she started being bored by the pace and initiating learning hear own songs. I then moved to another more conventional (maybe Alfred). It's a fun and easy tempo for little attention spans. Then I got pregnant and found her a private (non Suzuki) teacher that was a good fit because I lost all my motivation to work with her when she was 6? Two years has made a great progress in her music now. But we started gently.

Now my 4 yo ds gets out the MFLM books and tries to understand them (he can read) and apply them all by himself. It's very nice.

(My oldest dd started Suzuki violin at 3 so that was all the music I could do with her--energy wise).

[tankgirl73]

I definitely recommend MFLM for little ones... I don't like their approach to note-reading too much, but that doesn't come up until a bit later anyway. It's the songs and games and stories that make it worthwhile.

I also recommend avoiding Bastien like the plague lol... I know many people grew up with it and survived, but there is SO much better stuff out there now. USUALLY teachers who still use Bastien are those who are just doing what they've always done and haven't actually put any thought into pedagogical philosophies and how children learn and researching other options for materials. That's my very opiniated opinion, of course

My preference is Piano Adventures, the primer book series is wonderful and I've never had a student not do well with it. Celebrate Piano is another very good one, I really like their first level especially, though as it progresses it's not a good fit for *every* student. Music Tree is ancient but based on a brilliant pedagogy... I've found it hit or miss, some kids just don't learn that way and it's meaningless to them, others it's exactly right.

The *new* Alfred method books are also not bad, a huge improvement over the old ones. It's interesting that for the most part, their changes simply move them more in the pedagogical direction of Piano Adventures...

ANYWAY. If you end up not doing this on your own, and your kid still begs for 'lessons', another option to consider would be Music for Young Children or Kindermusic. It's not strictly piano, but it's general music and often has a piano focus to it. Like anything, it can still be hit or miss... depending on the teacher. But it's worth looking into IMO.

In looking for a teacher, have you contacted a local MTNA group? There are *usually* at least *some* teachers who deal with very young children, and that would be the group who would know who to call...

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

Celebrate Piano is another very good one, I really like their first level especially, though as it progresses it's not a good fit for *every* student.

OT: Tankgirl, can I pick your brain a little about this? Briefly, my 5yo recently began formal piano lessons using the Celebrate Piano series. After two lessons her 'regular' piano teacher went overseas for a couple of months so she's now getting lessons with a substitute teacher who is wonderful, but who has never used this particular series. So we're kind of muddling along as a threesome in a primer series that none of us has ever used before.

So far she seems to be doing fine with it, but I'm wondering what the poorness of fit issues are that you've observed with some students -- what should I be watching out for, and at what level? We're now in the 2A book. She's moving pretty fast in large part because she has an extensive background on violin; we're only about 5 weeks into piano studies. Any advice or warnings?

Miranda

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

I'd avoid learning notes just yet. She can do it, but it's best to start with fun games that teach the basics of the panio first. Making up a fun game to learn what the notes sound like, the difference between eigth notes, quater notes etc., the difference between black keys and white keys and the names of the notes. DD made up a song for the different notes in an octive because she kept going up to H and I... Apperely I have a unique piano

I agree. I have tried to get my 6 y o DD in to piano lessons a couple times in the last year or two and was told she was too young. She still likes to play around on our keyboard at home.

[tankgirl73]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

OT: Tankgirl, can I pick your brain a little about this? Briefly, my 5yo recently began formal piano lessons using the Celebrate Piano series. After two lessons her 'regular' piano teacher went overseas for a couple of months so she's now getting lessons with a substitute teacher who is wonderful, but who has never used this particular series. So we're kind of muddling along as a threesome in a primer series that none of us has ever used before.

So far she seems to be doing fine with it, but I'm wondering what the poorness of fit issues are that you've observed with some students -- what should I be watching out for, and at what level? We're now in the 2A book. She's moving pretty fast in large part because she has an extensive background on violin; we're only about 5 weeks into piano studies. Any advice or warnings?

Miranda

If she's in 2A and enjoying it and progressing, she's probably fine. I usually find that level 1B is a difficult one -- it seems to make a fairly quick leap in difficulty and some kids don't bridge that well. However, I often have transfer students who have years of lessons but some holes and weaknesses, start in level 2A, since it gives good basic instruction without being 'babyish', etc.

One suggestion I would have is to do circle of fifths exercises -- 5-finger pentascale patterns -- before it's introduced in the books. I have all my students do this whichever method series they're using anyway, and one of the reasons I do like Celebrate Piano is its emphasis on learning the patterns of all the different keys. Kids 7, 8, 9 years old are transposing things that I myself would have had trouble with up until a few years ago (well, QUITE a few now I guess hah) when I learned how to do it, as an ADULT and professional musician!

And make sure you are doing all the supplementary stuff in the book -- the interval songs, the exercises, the sight-reading challenges, etc, as well as the written components. And one thing your teacher may or may not be aware of... the pages do not have to be done completely sequentially. Each unit is intended to be taken as a UNIT, so you can do the warmup on page 19, the piece on page 20 and the theory on page 24 one week, and the next week do the same warmup with more variations/transpositions, the piece on page 21, the exercise on page 22, and the theory on page 25. (Those aren't real page numbers, just making it up to illustrate what I mean).

In other words, the teacher should look the whole unit and determine the best way to approach it for an individual student, and not just turn the page 'mindlessly' like some methods are designed.

Hope that helps some -- if you have more questions, maybe PM me so we don't take this too far off topic.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

If she's in 2A and enjoying it and progressing, she's probably fine.

Thanks, very helpful. She transposes all over the place already, so I think we're good on that count! (Twinkle Twinkle with Alberti bass in C# harmonic minor, anyone? )

Cheers!

Miranda

[CT Mommy]

Well, I was all set to buy MFLM and get started with DD, but I may have found a piano teacher. She is Juliard grad and also studied in France. Very classically trained and I suspect a more traditional teacher (has been teaching since 1977). Uses the John Thompson series, Teaching Little Fingers to play. She came very highly recommended from a musician friend of mine.

We hit it off well and I think she's a good fit for DD personality-wise. She says that she was pushed really hard as a child and it was stressful and not fun, so she likes to make playing fun and enjoyable for her students. She said that she if I'm looking for her to "make" a concert pianist out of my dd, she's probably not the right teacher. Great if it happens, but her thing is instilling a love of piano playing.

What do you think? Sounds too good to be true in many ways, but I'm hesitant about the Thompson and the traditional lessons. Any thoughts?

[tankgirl73]

I'd be hesitant about the Thompson too, it's just soooo old and antiquated and IMO not designed the way most children learn...

BUT, it can't hurt to try it, you know? If she's at all a good teacher, she will either just use the method book as a 'background' for some structure and design the lessons around the child, or she will realize it doesn't work for this child and find something else... Or, it might work perfectly for your kid, you never know. *shrug*