support thread for mamas with toxic and/or estranged parents - Page 8

[cristeen]

to all you ladies.

I've been kind of avoiding this area, because I've been avoiding thinking about this. But it's been a couple weeks now since that card from my dad, and I still don't know what I want to do about it. I'm torn between the desire to protect myself and my family from the control issues involved in a relationship with them, and the desire to actually have a relationship with my father.

Having a relationship with him means not just him, but his wife and her extended family, probably my sister and BIL, and whoever comes along for the ride. As it stands right now we've had a fairly peaceful life for the last year and a half, without any of them being involved, and I honestly can't say that I want to give it up.

But...

But...

But...

I dunno. I just can't decide what my heart really wants.

[Labbemama]

(hugs Cristeen)
I am so in that place. May 23rd my family is coming back for my brother's wedding. Someone asked why my brother was in contact with my mom...well usually he's not. but since he's getting married and having a baby my mom is naturally very interested in his business and she found out my sil-2-be's mom died when she was very young so she wants to be her loving mil-the mother she never had. On the bright side, my mom is being very nice to sil-2-be. My mom has never had a dil before so maybe, maybe this will go better than her two sils have experienced.

I just realized I've been hyper-focusing on details details details of the wedding (with sil-2-be's phone calls in order not to think about what having them back here will be like. I also want to welcome her to the family.and help her out when she calls me asking for some advice. I feel very protetive of her even though a lot of the time I get annoyed with her. but yeah I'd rather think about nice lillies and cake toppers than about my mom being here. LOL.

May is a long time away so that helps. She will be back in July though. Oh My what if she doesn't go home in between?

My brother is typically avoiding my mom as he usually does but after the big announcements at Christmas now mom is calling here to find out a date and stuff. I think she was worried they went to the JP and got married without letting her know. I called them and asked them to just mail her an invitation,(Knowing they planned to invite her) Please, text, her email her, drop a voicemail flyby so they don't have to actually speak to her and hear the litany of complaints, but do something to stop her from calling ME asking ME if I know what they are up to. It takes effort either way to talk to her or ignore her. My tactic with mom had been to ignore the contacts or just say I don't know but that didn't stop her from asking. My mom is all upset that there is a pregnancy and they are not yet married, so they can't get married soon enough, but mom wants to be here. etc.

My mom says she was in the hospital over the last few days and has sent out emails in detail about her horrible hospital stay and high blood pressure and that she almost had a stroke. I don't know if that's true or not or just an attempt to get the attention back on her.

It's also the anniversary of my grandfather's death and so naturally that's hard for my mom. There's a lot of things I could say about my grandpa but that I miss him is not one of them. :-( so I do feel for her. It's tragic that someone would be so alone, but she's just so miserable to be around or talk to, what can you do other than avoid her? That she misses my grandfather, that man absused her horribly would be like missing a splint you know but it's her dad and she's got him all sainted and her thinking reflects his. It's really sad.

My sister said that my mom told her the nurse asked her why she didn't have any family there. (Why my stepdad didn't go.) My guess is he was enjoying the quiet and that is just a mean thought, but that was the first thing that popped into my head. but he knew she went to the dr. for high bp on an emergency basis and he didn't even wonder why she wasn't home 6 hours later?

Anyhow I'm feeling sorry for her and also irritated with her. This whole illness as way of relating to the world thing has been done so many times, but I am afraid she really is sick. I sure don't want her to have a stroke, but likely her bp is so high because she's soooo negative about my stepdad, grandfather's death anniversary, and the wedding and pregnancy that my brother's into and so the communications with her have all reflected that negative energy. I am trying to put it nicely.

My dh is very crabby at any mention of the wedding, which comes up about once a day when sil-2-be calls here. dh says no one from my family can stay here that it's my brother's "circus" and he can find places for everyone to stay. I'm in no mood to play hostess after Christmas, but still it's his wedding you know and I know by history how my family behaves at these events (weddings, births, funerals) and I would really like to help minimize the drama and for my brother and sil to have a beautiful, drama free day. I'd like to have my dad stay with us. He's a good parent and he wards off my mom cuz they are divorced.

Whatever happened at Christmas, my sister is not coming back for the wedding. That was a hope I had that she would be here. I enjoy her company and the solidarity. I think she's just at a point where she wants nothing to do with my mom which I can respect. But still, never thought my brother would get married. LOL it's might be something to see.

[Labbemama]

Took action today about the wedding stuff and told both sets of my parents they can not stay here they will need to get hotels and gave them the phone numbers to the people they need to talk to. Feeling much relieved.

My mom says she can only come for one event-the wedding or the baby-so that is a relief too.

[Labbemama]

Has anyone resumed talking to their toxic parent because the toxic parent became very ill or near death?

We are waiting on results if my mom had a stroke or not is why I ask. Her blood pressure is still extremely high. And while I have not always believed her health complaints to be honest, I am starting to think something is really seriously wrong and that has soften my position some.

[majikfaerie]

glad to hear you took action, labbemama. sounds like a positive step

and regarding resuming contact in light of illness, I haven't really had to face that, but for me it wouldn't make a difference, unless some change occured at their end first.

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by majikfaerie

and regarding resuming contact in light of illness, I haven't really had to face that, but for me it wouldn't make a difference, unless some change occured at their end first.

:

If they're still toxic, illness doesn't really change that. In fact, for some people it makes it worse. If they're not willing to make some changes and acknowledge the problem, then illness doesn't alter my opinion.


I had a heart-to-heart with my BFF this weekend about my dad. I've known her my entire life and she's about as fond of him as I am, so it's good to have someone to talk to. She really helped me get to the heart of my hesitation about re-establishing a relationship with him, and made a suggestion I thought I'd run by you ladies to see if it's an insane idea.

She suggested that I write him a letter, and make it clear to him that I am willing to tentatively accept him back into my life, but that the second he slips back into old patterns (verbal and emotional abuse - the physical abuse ended years ago), I will walk away again. Is that a crazy idea? My DH called it a "contract", which makes me feel weird about it. This whole thing is complicated by the fact that I got a BFP this weekend, so I'm having to really consider whether or not I want to broach this subject, since there will be rules if he's to be involved with my children. Thoughts?

[Arduinna]

: to everyone.

cristeen, congratulations of the BFP and I totally understand how that puts a whole new light on your decision about contact. I'd give myself extra time as a result.

[Labbemama]

Congratulations on your BFP Cristeen! :
I have seen behavior contracts work before if two ppl are motivated. (And what could be more motivating than a grandbaby?) I don't think it's a crazy idea unless you think there's no way your dad can live up to it, kwim? Do you have nieces/nephews? How is your dad in the role of a grandpa with them? I'd say that's the best predictor of how he might behave with your little one.

If it's a reasonable contract atleast you've attempted and can say you set the boundary with him. Are you willing to follow thru if he violates the contract?

Ugh, well I just got a facebook msg from the bride saying how neat she didn't know my mom made my wedding dress. My mom has offered to make my sil's wedding gown. My grandma did it because my own mother refused. Didn't have time. She was making my best friend's wedding dress for pay and all the bridesmaid dresses (and the one and only ugly bridesmaid dress that I ever wore--and we've all worn something not our taste and unflattering to our bod for a friend right? not my mom's fault on that. It was the print of the fabric that the bride my friend picked out. I didn't have trouble keeping my mouth shut then. ) the problem was in my bff's wedding that none of the dresses fit and they weren't properly lined, hemmed, or fitted.

I don't know what irritates me more, that my mom lied or that my sil believes it. She is so trusting- Dh is just laughing and shaking his head. He thinks "let her." I told him it will be a really bad way to start off if the bride hates the dress.

I do not want to give an opinon on the quality of my mom's formal wear on the record--but this is this girl's wedding day and it's so important a bride's gown be the way she wants it. If she asks too see pics should I show the bride Without a comment,and say here they are and of course let her decide for herself? My best friend (who my mom had made the bridal gown for at the same time as my wedding had some major issues with it.) All I said in reply was that my grandma made my dress.

You know you are right A-pretty much all the major life events are complicated, weddings, births, deaths...and everything in between.
And this is if my mom is even well enough to sew. My mom is not supposed to be doing *anything* per her dr. but that never stops a mom.

[majikfaerie]

Originally Posted by cristeen

:

If they're still toxic, illness doesn't really change that. In fact, for some people it makes it worse. If they're not willing to make some changes and acknowledge the problem, then illness doesn't alter my opinion.


I had a heart-to-heart with my BFF this weekend about my dad. I've known her my entire life and she's about as fond of him as I am, so it's good to have someone to talk to. She really helped me get to the heart of my hesitation about re-establishing a relationship with him, and made a suggestion I thought I'd run by you ladies to see if it's an insane idea.

She suggested that I write him a letter, and make it clear to him that I am willing to tentatively accept him back into my life, but that the second he slips back into old patterns (verbal and emotional abuse - the physical abuse ended years ago), I will walk away again. Is that a crazy idea? My DH called it a "contract", which makes me feel weird about it. This whole thing is complicated by the fact that I got a BFP this weekend, so I'm having to really consider whether or not I want to broach this subject, since there will be rules if he's to be involved with my children. Thoughts?

on the face of it, sounds like a good idea to me, as long as you feel ready to re-establish contact under certain conditions and you feel you can stick to it.
that said, i don't know what a bfp is

[Labbemama]

I think it's Trying to Conceive (TTC) sportspeak for Big fat Positive pregnancy test results. If it's something else...lol...I'm going to feel very embarrassed.

[nolonger]

Originally Posted by Labbemama

I think it's Trying to Conceive (TTC) sportspeak for Big fat Positive pregnancy test results. If it's something else...lol...I'm going to feel very embarrassed.

No need to feel embarassed.

:::Cristeen:stick y!!!!

I feel like I am in a similar place with my own father. I am doing well with email contact right now. He is throwing such a temper tantrum about having an African American president that I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that he could never have accepted a mixed race grandchild no matter what I do or don't do so i feel no more guilt about "depriving" ds2 of anything.

He strikes me as a very sad, bitter little man as he tries to justify himself and I found myself feeling genuine love when he finally set himself up for me to reply to an email with the line "I can and will do whatever it takes to make sure that my son does not wind up like you." and then adding a sincere "I owe you that much."

Labbemama, this wedding sounds like such a stresser for you; please know that I am listening even if I don't always have anything helpful to say. :

[majikfaerie]

Originally Posted by Labbemama

I think it's Trying to Conceive (TTC) sportspeak for Big fat Positive pregnancy test results. If it's something else...lol...I'm going to feel very embarrassed.

ah. thanks. shows that I don't hang out in ttc threads

and noordinaryspider

[ellephant]

As much as I hate to admit it, I need to be in the group. My mom and I have a very toxic relationship. We spent years not talking and when we reconnected, she wanted to rule my life. If I didn't do things her way, I was doing it wrong. She wanted control in every aspect of every choice I made. When I met my DP, my mother immediately started bad mouthing her and spreading rumors amongst our family about how bad she was for me and that she wanted to control my life. I think my mom was mad that I hadn't taken her advice to stay away.
The worst part is that my mother controls my WHOLE family. My siblings (19 and 29) won't do anything that she disapproves of. They won't talk to me without telling my mother everything that I talk to them about. I moved to another city last year and she will call to "talk" but only insults me and tells me everything I am doing wrong. I changed my phone number and blocked her from my email so I wouldn't have to deal with it, but she won't go away! My mom has even gone as far as tracking down old friends of mine to try to get them to spy on me for her.
It hurts that it's just me and DP. Her family is great and I think that bothers me to see them be so wonderful and I am a bit jealous at times that she has such a great family and mine sucks so bad.
I hate that our (future) kids aren't going to ever get to know my side of the family and I know they eventually will ask why. I don't even know what to tell them.

[majikfaerie]

ellephant. welcome to the thread, but sorry you're here

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by majikfaerie

on the face of it, sounds like a good idea to me, as long as you feel ready to re-establish contact under certain conditions and you feel you can stick to it.

I guess I really need to give some serious thought as to what exactly those conditions are, then. I spent some time thinking about it while I was out running errands today, and I suppose the main issue for me is to not go through my life being belittled, and to not be treated like an afterthought/second-class citizen (after my sister and my step-family). I guess I really have to consider if those are my only issues.

Originally Posted by Labbemama

I think it's Trying to Conceive (TTC) sportspeak for Big fat Positive pregnancy test results. If it's something else...lol...I'm going to feel very embarrassed.

Yeah, sorry. Been hanging out in TTC areas for too long. Thank you for the well-wishes.

Originally Posted by noordinaryspider

No need to feel embarassed.

:::Cristeen:stick y: !!!!

He strikes me as a very sad, bitter little man as he tries to justify himself and I found myself feeling genuine love when he finally set himself up for me to reply to an email with the line "I can and will do whatever it takes to make sure that my son does not wind up like you." and then adding a sincere "I owe you that much."

Wow. That's incredibly profound. :

Originally Posted by ellephant

It hurts that it's just me and DP. Her family is great and I think that bothers me to see them be so wonderful and I am a bit jealous at times that she has such a great family and mine sucks so bad.
I hate that our (future) kids aren't going to ever get to know my side of the family and I know they eventually will ask why. I don't even know what to tell them.

I'm glad you found us.

I think the best thing you can do is to be honest with them, as their curiosity grows and in an age appropriate way.

I had a friend who was in a similar situation, and gave her son the option of having a relationship with her parents, once he was old enough to understand. She was honest with him that mom and grandma didn't get along, but didn't get into details with him. He had a relationship with those grandparents up until he was about 7, when grandma started saying and doing things that made him uncomfortable, at which time he chose to end the relationship with his parent's blessings. What I really like about the situation is that his parents instilled in him the ability to express and trust his own feelings on the situation, which I'm sure they didn't have growing up. I think that's really important for all of us in a similar situation, regardless of how we choose to approach the grandparent problem.

[Labbemama]

I was pretty sure you meant pregnant. So I'm Not really embarrassed.

Yes, the wedding is a big stressor. But you know I think after May it will be done and we can go back to ignoring everyone as usual. My sil to be says my mom may not even come to the wedding because she is only gonna come for the baby. : I still doubt that she will miss her own son's wedding, but m'kay if she says so. It's all a way of sapping the out of it. I've heard that one before. It's always "Oh I don't have the money, what a hardship my children are to me," but she always finds the money somewhere. Like with my cousin's wedding she didn't come for the wedding and no one was upset about that until my cousin had an accident and nearly died on her honeymoon in a car accident and sure enough my mom appeared for the "funeral." Despite not having the $ to come. Thank GOD my cousn made a full recovery. My uncle's side of the family is all estranged from my mom because of that incident.

There's a lot of drama related to my parent's divorce too. It's just really annoying that my mom and dad haven't sifted thru their divorce drama yet. We're talking a divorce 24 years old. They were only married 9 years.

And there's the fact that do to my mother's mental illness I raised my brother, so it's also a journey of letting go like mother's do. He is doing some things that aren't too responsible by my opinion and could have some life-long consequences. His life to do with what he pleases though. Just hard to stand back and watch, hoping it all works out and adding ppl to his wake.

They plan to do the dress fitting by mail! (which I think is going to make this even harder-because we did this for my dog's coat and it turned out waayy too big. LOL) but that might work out ok considering. I was afraid she'd come out early to make the gown. so hey maybe my mom won't come out here for the wedding after all. Which it looks like less and less ppl are coming due to strained finances so it begs the question why the big wedding if nobody can come? SIlto be just got laid off so yeah we'd all like a big wedding but we have to do what we can afford, KWIM? they can't afford this big production and she's had PTL so I'm a little worried about her health and scheduling a big wedding when she is anticipating bed rest and so fearful of another mc.

There's little things like she was telling me about the fitting of one possible dress and that they wanted to take in the top of the dress a lot and I was like you know you are pregnant and your top might get fuller you might want to alter that nearer the date. OH no, her boobs will not get bigger. She just knows they won't. ok.
She brought it up. It's not like I called her. But as someone who has had 3 kids I kind of know something about what bodies do in general in pregnancy. They do things you never imagined they could. LOL She got really mad at me for saying I went up 2 cup sizes. They will charge her $100 for alterations so I'm just trying to look out for her. (IF she buys the $400 dress) Anyhow...we were all new moms once I guess. But denying that your body is going to grow and tying $500 bucks into a dress, sigh. I just hope she will be happy with the dress.

The baby will be here six weeks plus or minus a few later?
And this young lady insists things like if they don't come the week of the birth to see their newborn then they won't ever be involved in the baby's life. So she's telling ppl if they have to choose 1 choose the wedding or the birth choose the birth. And I was like seriously, do you want all those ppl here for the birth? You might be tired and a little sore...you *might* want to stagger the company a bit. You might want some private time just you, your husband and the baby. (Cuz I'm selfish and they have a 2 bedroom and these 4 sides of the family can not all sleep on the sofa. LOL) Some of them (both my mom's side and my dads) are even mad at me for saying no you can't stay here. So it does concern me if they invite everyone to town.

IF I could swing it, financially and leave-wise I would go visit my inlaws that week.
In PHOENIX in JULY!!!

A wedding is just one day y'know, but a baby in theory will be a baby for what a year or two and then hang around til they are oh, 25-or something like that? Plenty of time to see the baby. It does not all need to happen the week of July 15th.

The whole thing annoys me and it's not my problem. A lot of it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Today has been blissfully quiet. :

[Labbemama]

Just wanted to say welcome to ellephant.

About the kids, I think my kids do have a good sense of what is normal and what is not and they have a choice as to seeing grandparents or not. It helps me seeing my kids reactions. I was really proud of oldest for making plans and taking off when she'd had her fill and my youngest hooked up the mp3. Coping skills or rude? I don't know.

I'm shaking my head and laughing because I want life to make sense. Does anyone's life make sense?

[APMomOfKimmyN-Maya]

I can relate to a lot of the postings here. I am estranged from my mother and never met my father.

[yogal]

my boyfriend is looking up air purifiers...

maybe there are air purifiers that we can all get to purify our toxic mothers?
lol?

[Labbemama]

LOL. Sign me up for an air purifier.

After complaining I was sick last week to my mom last week, she called today "just to see how I was doing."
It was a nice, thoughtful thing of her to do.
I have to say I was pleasantly surprised she remembered I had a dr. apt today. Course she wanted then to tell me how awful sick she was. :

But for a moment, I felt taken care of. And yeah, I'm being a big baby today because I've been so sick for a couple of weeks and this is a moment of weakness. Was wishing someone would take care of me, because my asthma, bronchitis, and sinusisits is at the brink of pneumonia according to my dr. The last two days I have not been up to full mom duty And you know you naturally wish your mom (the ideal one not the actual one) would come make you a bowl of soup and tuck you in bed.