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support thread for mamas with toxic and/or estranged parents - Page 10

post #181 of 402
Felixmom and Blessed Mommy I am glad that you subbed.

Whitney-My dh is also not willing to go to counseling. I understand his reasons though, ironically our families growin up had the same psychiatrist--little good that it did, but he really resents psychology in general. (Other than it pays half the bills now because that's my field. LOL) That must be really hard for your child to have his dad reject him like that. We've had some battles too with my dh and that hard stance he's taken with my dd, almost pushing her out of our home even. Because that's how his parents handled things. Dh paid the price of being locked up for a year in a psych ward while his parents worked out their own stuff. It's really tough to be in the middle of conflict with your partner and your child. I hope he can reconsider or atleast maybe you and your son could get counseling and alter your behavior and maybe your dh will come around seeing some benefit to it if things improve or coming in as a "consultant" to talk about "your son's problem" and not as the patient.

My mom is on a negative stretch again. She is fighting with the home owners association because they replaced their roof with an unapproved color (Green) and it was my stepdad's responsibility to submit the request for roof repairs and the choice of colors for approval. So according to my mom the HOA is suing them for $20k.

My stepdad has supposedly responsded with depressive symptoms, alcoholism, and withholding um marital relations from my mom. (Completely inappropriate for her to tell me about their last year.) I don't believe ANY of it except maybe he's depressed.

I am worried that my stepdad and my mom are on the brink of divorce, for her well-being and self-preservation. She has no one in this world but us "kids." Her parents are both dead. (And she can't come here.) She hasn't worked in two decades. I doubt she could hold a job.
She keeps ranting that he is an alcoholic and I saw no sign of that in the days they were here.

She has been at odds with her inlaws because she accidentally sent one of her rants about my stepdad's "alcoholism" to them about a month ago. The petty part of me is thinking it's too bad they didn't get this one too! It was a DOOZEY! So my stepgrandparents got this nasty email and they told my stepdad and he had it out with my mom. I have to admit that I laughed until I cried about that stunt. You can not say all that stuff behind your dh's back and think he will never find out.

I intervened once before because I was concerned about my dad's safety and I he did not believe me that my mom was toxic. That was what resulted in the one year off from my mom.

There's some stuff in her writing that makes me think she's psychotic again. I wish that I could call him and say I am worried about him and let him know the lies my mom is spreading about him. He wouldn't believe it, but *I wish* he would. He's a nice guy. Most of my issues with him growing up were because of lies my mom told him. It's another "not my business but..."

My stepdad was in a car accident in his late adolescence and it has made him particularily trusting. (which is a major enabling plus for my mom and her shenanigans.) It would be as simple as "Fwd" and "Send" to confront this one. I would have it in writing. Not that that matters. I could have irrefutable Proof and my family would insist I was the crazy one.

When Stepdad finally gets sick of my mom though, it will be a world of turmoil for us kids. I am not looking foward to it but it seems like that day is closing in.

So there are two issues for me.
To confront or not to confront. It goes against my very nature to leave this alone. Although it's better for me to ignore it-consequences wise--I have my values. The ones I didn't learn in this family, lol, about respecting ppl and being honest, protecting others even if it's at your risk. Ok I learned that one in this family.

The other issues is (and it may be premature)
where will my mother go if my stepdad and her breakup? My mom is talking about it in her email. I sure don't want her picking up and moving here (she has dissassociative fugue sometimes) or more likely with my sister. Like us all my sister, has her own challenges and she sure doesn't need any mama-drama. My sister is moving this week. Doesn't know her address though cuz the Army hasn't told her yet. Will tell her Monday. Maybe that's a perk for her. I think she will want to come out here because 2 of her 3 kids are here.

Toxic Family Relocation Program. There ought to be one.

Having self-critical thoughts too for ever having started talking to her again because though my anxiety is not extreme, the desire to protect and to be believed about what is happening remains strong.

I appreciate that any of you got this far in my rambling of thoughts. :-)
As I contemplate, is it better to have a mother going about her harm-doing and know about it or not know about it? Sigh. I really wish her peace. She was doing so good there for a stretch and this thing with the HOA seems to have completely derailed her.
post #182 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labbemama View Post
Felixmom and Blessed Mommy I am glad that you subbed.


Toxic Family Relocation Program. There ought to be one.
Thanks, for the welcome!

I love this idea!!!:::: Seriously!!
post #183 of 402
Question....

If your emotionally immature and emotionally abusive mom, who has lived in your city for just a year, and plans to move away after recovering from a surgery.....how much help would you offer her, in her recovery? And...how much contact would you allow between her and your dc?

Thanks....
post #184 of 402
blessed mommy. that would depend so much on the partucular situation it's had to answer
post #185 of 402
LOL. My sister still doesn't have her new address yet and she is supposed to be out of her base housing on the 28th. I guess there's some kind of maintenence issue to be fixed before they will even release her address to her.

I talked to my sister today and told her that I needed help getting my stepdads contact info. I think she ran and told my mom what I said because I got an email with a comment about her getting more signatures for the HOA thing and it not being bad for 5 hours of work. (I said If I was threatened with a 20k lawsuit I don't think I'd mind an hour or two of work to make sure I didn't have to pay it and that it was probably made up anyway.)

So either way, LOL, problem solved. Maybe my mom will just knock it off for now. I told my sister that my mom knows that I can't resist confronting her if she's out of line and she shouldn't send me stuff that she knows I'll feel obliged to say something about. Now most stuff I just ignore but this one, I said I may have to tell dad that last months intervention did not stick.

My intention was not for my sister to repeat it all back to my mom, but I'm not ashamed of anything I said so it all worked out.

So either she got the message or the person writing today from mom's email is in a better mood. That happens too. If I believed in DID I would say my mom had it. Anyhow, if my sister gets the email addy I will still fwd it to my stepdad.

I believe my mom, in her way, is crying out for help. If she insists on writing me this stuff, then I will feel free to delete it or foward it. This one I'm going to fwd with the message that I think my mom needs some grief counseling (based on her fears that my stepdad is dead in her bed and she has to keep checking him) and THEY need to work out their marital stuff and leave me out of it, please. I am worried about them both. One reason I maintain contact with her is that you can't have a relationship with my stepdad without talking to her.
post #186 of 402
Thanks for the support/advice Labbamama
All is well at home, I got to the bottom of the behavior in my husband and had to have a bit of a row over it all. But after a near day of silence he told me he was wrong, and he's had 2 or 3 really wonderful, positive talks with our son and with me and "fixed what was broken" Still wish he's see a councelor..but that's got to be his own choice.

On the toxic mom front...about an hour ago I was cleaning my little one up from lunch when my phone rang with the are code for the state my moter is in. I stupidly picked it up thinking it was my uncle who had left a message on my machine earlier letting me know that my mother was back at the state mental facility and had some medical tests done recently. (not like that was a red flag..see previous post "my mom the z'mom'bie)

Anywho..it's a social worker who has me on speaker phone and informs me that my mother in right there and she wants to read a letter my mother wrote me.(for the record my mom is sort of non-verbal anymore..for awhile they thought it was MS since the slurred speach showed up, then a stroke, then all the drugs/alcohol, now it might just be a psycoogical reaction..seems lik,e she can be perfectly clear when she's pissed off though..hmmm)Anyway, back to the phone call...this woman then proceeds to read me a typical mom letter.."Dear daughter, miss you loive you blah blah blah, asks about the kids..even remembers my middle child's name (see previous post where she refers to him for 2 months as "it") says that this time she's REALLY dieing as she had a biopsy and there were malignant tumors on her liver.Can she move out here to an assisted living favility nearby me.......*insert my silence and sound of pounding heart here*
So I'm standing in my kitchen watching my 18month old smear yogurt in his hair while some lady I"ve never met is reading a demands sheet from my mentaly ill, inpatient at the state psych hospital asking me if she can move out here...WTF!?!?!?!?!?!

After the long silence, I asked to speak to the socail worker off speaker phone, she said my mother said no...then I said that this wasn't a good time, that
I have a sick baby right now that is about to go down for a nap..she asks when a good time would be to talk..I sputter..uhh tomorrow morning? , you can sort of ehar my mom crying in the background "I gave a quick "loveya mom" then hung up. *insert louder sound of pounding heart and that nauseas feeling you get when you're about to speak in public*

Act 2:

Came upstairs, got a phone number for the facility online and asked to speak with a social worker. Tried to find the one I spoke with, but in my panic forgot her name...so they gave me someone else, who I informed that I
found it completely inappropriate that a social worker was claling me out of the blue to mediate a discussion between myself and my mother whom I have no spoken to in over 9 months and is currently an inpatient AT A MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY. I went on to say that this was probably not a very good way to encourage family involvement by ambushing people in their kitchen with a call from not only a complete stranger, but also the aforementioned crazy lady sitting next to them who I am astranged from..because she CRAZY!.

ummm hello? did you miss the "relating to the family" part of your training? Don't call and make demands either form yourself or from your patient to someone who hasn't even been warned this is coming? What am I going to say.."hey mom, I know you're dieing and all ..again..but not just no, but H*LL no you can't come within 1000 miles of my finally normal-ish family and fill your last remaining months/years with all that you've missed...well, because YOU'RE NUTS! and destructive and a drunk and somehom that doesn't get absolved just because you're dieing..it doesn't make you into a martyr or a saint"

good grief, sorry for the rant.

anywho, the other worker I spoke to agreed that the clal was very inapropriate and should have been handled differently.She apologized repeatedly and told me she would be talking to this worker as well as the team there so as to make sure this type of thing isn't undertaken again.
I did tell them I would talk with a worker..just not my mom.


but cr*p..now what do I do? how do I convey all this without sounding like a cold hearted b*tch? I don't want to hurt my mother, at least not to her face (oh God did that sound like cr*p)

I'm good at ignoring, not returning phone calls, not writing, I hate this kind of confrontation..hate it hate it hate it..I hate that I'm in the position yet again.

cr*p...maybe someone will drop a house on her.

any advice?

(good grief I wrote yet another freaking book sized post..how do you people read these novels..bless you if you do! and sorry for the typos..i can't spell when
I'm pissed)
post #187 of 402
subbing. I'll be back- can't tackle this one at 3:30 am
post #188 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneymum View Post
but cr*p..now what do I do? how do I convey all this without sounding like a cold hearted b*tch? I don't want to hurt my mother, at least not to her face (oh God did that sound like cr*p)
To be honest, I wouldn't worry about sounding like a CHB. The call was completely inappropriate, and it's not the social worker's place to be making those sorts of demands. I'd probably be completely honest and tell her she was out of line, and that you have no intention of discussing this with her, and leave it at that.

But then I also probably wouldn't be answering the phone for a while.

If you really feel like you need to be heard, then I'd call back the nice social worker you spoke with and tell her that very obviously your mother has been committed to a mental institution for a reason, and that you don't feel you're capable of providing her with the kind of attention that she would require from you. I would make it very clear that you are currently estranged and that you see no reason to change that state of affairs. I doubt that any of that would be new to the social worker.

And to a certain extent, I think that dealing with toxic people requires that we stop being so concerned with how other people perceive us. It is that concern that allows the toxic people to have so much control over us.

Best of luck.
post #189 of 402
Hi,

I'm still reading through this thread and hope to respond soon. I've been on MDC for a year and a half, but I don't post much. Anyway, I just found this thread.

I ceased communication with my parents 4 years ago. They insist on sending things to my children (just to prove they can) and I have asked them to stop communicating with us and they won't. I'm not sure what to do about that.

I just started back to therapy after 12 years to deal with past sexual abuse (been to therapy once, but it's come back up). I need them to stop contacting me. Maybe some day I'll explain more of the story, but I just wanted to post and say that I'm glad that this thread is here. People with normal parents don't understand how I could possibly not speak to my parents.
post #190 of 402
Question for everyone--how do you get beyond missing your parents, or at least who you wanted them to be?

And how do you get over the guilt of cutting them off, or just plain letting them go?
post #191 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Question for everyone--how do you get beyond missing your parents, or at least who you wanted them to be?

And how do you get over the guilt of cutting them off, or just plain letting them go?
For me it just became a case of deciding I was no longer going to keep letting them in to hurt me. I can only let myself get kicked in the teeth so many times, yk?

I had no control over my childhood, but things are very different now, and people can only hurt me if I let them. I don't see what I have to feel guilty about.
post #192 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Question for everyone--how do you get beyond missing your parents, or at least who you wanted them to be?

And how do you get over the guilt of cutting them off, or just plain letting them go?
therapy.

I actually just decided to go back again. My DH has wonderful insurance that gives me 6 free sessions. I think one of the best ways to let go is to be able to release the frustrations at unmet expectations in a safe space. I totally feel the cliche of "dropping off baggage" I've been twice and I'm feeling lighter already.(I've done therapy twice before at different times in my life)

And if the cost/time etc of therapy just doesn't work for you..come vent to other folks who can listen and give feedback that will help you come to terms with things on your own (I MDC)

s mama! It's a crappy thing to have in your head/life etc. I think just being a wonderful parent to your own kiddos help heal alot of those wounds.
post #193 of 402
It is very important to have ppl who nurture you--I have a supervisor is is the "Grandmotherly" type where I can get some good free advice and she gives me lots of "you did the right thing" kind of encouragement that has helped me to trust my own judgement. There were some faculty like that who served as mentors to me and I made tremendous strides.

I had an aunt who helped me a lot in my youth, although now we are not that close because of stuff my mom has done and she has distanced herself to protect her own kids and self, and at one point I wanted to out the truth about something major my mom did and my uncle didn't want and was involved but was in a position to help and chose to keep silent because HE is afraid of my mom and we've been distant since then.

I've got my dad and my fil who are happy to here me talk about the kids like I used to do with my grandma who serves as my substitute mama before she passed.

I don't think you ever do fully get that hole in your heart filled but you do find ways, your own creative ways to nurture yourself or get that somewhere else. Sometimes I get a little bit from my mom but like 1-2% and the other 98% is pure heartache.
post #194 of 402
So, how do you decide when enough is enough and it is time to cut a parent out of your life? I cut my mother out of my life when I was 16 back in 1990. I have never regretted it and will never have a relationship with her again. I won't go into details, but she abused me in every possible way for 16 years, and I had no desire to ever see her again when I ran away from home. I talked to her once since then, and within about 2 minutes, it dissolved into her swearing at me and her breaking my finger. I walked away and will never speak to her again if I can possibly help it.

I have been posting on another thread in this forum about my toxic father and have decided to give him a few days before I respond to him. I apologize in advance for having his here twice, but I realized this belongs here more so than in a thread of its own. Basically, he chose to ignore my son's and my birthday (we share out birthday) yesterday after I invited him over a month ago to come share it with us. He responded that he was not feeling well and would do his best to come. He didn't come. He didn't call. He ended up going out to dinner with friends and I was so furious and hurt. He has done so many little things that have hurt over the years, and his wife (my step-monster) has hated me since he divorced my mother when I was 18 months old. She has done a zillion things that have hurt me in little ways over the years way more than my father, but my dad has never listened to me or believed me when I try to talk to him about it.

I realize that ignoring our birthday isn't a huge thing in the grand scheme of life, but he has never done anything like that and to say that he would try his best to come and then just completely ignore us on our day and to go out with friends instead just hurt more than I would have ever imagined. He lied to me, (and my son, essentially) and it really just feels like he is looking for a way to cut us out of his life.

I wrote him an email telling him I was hurt and angry at his behavior, and I only stated the facts of what actually happened rather than what I assumed from what happened. I was so careful to make it very non accusatory, but he definitely did not take it that way. He responded to me saying, that basically I was using this as a reason to cut him out of my life. I didn't say anything like that in my email, and I am hurt beyond belief that he would even say anything like that.

I realize this is not really a valid reason to cut someone out of my life, but it is so raw right now. I am just so stunned that he would do this. I know I need to give it a little time before I decide what to do. I would love for him to own what he did wrong, but I also know that you can't make people do what you want them to do. He is his own person, crappy decisions and all.

I am sorry this is so long. If you made it this far, thanks!
post #195 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie View Post
I wrote him an email telling him I was hurt and angry at his behavior, and I only stated the facts of what actually happened rather than what I assumed from what happened. I was so careful to make it very non accusatory, but he definitely did not take it that way. He responded to me saying, that basically I was using this as a reason to cut him out of my life. I didn't say anything like that in my email, and I am hurt beyond belief that he would even say anything like that.

I realize this is not really a valid reason to cut someone out of my life, but it is so raw right now.


My story is floating around this forum somewhere too, and his response to your letter is very similar to the response I got from my father to a similar letter. It is indicative of a much bigger problem.

And as for "not really a valid reason", IMO, the straw that broke the camel's back is always a valid reason. Don't feel like you need to justify to us, we've all been there at one point or another. If this is the last straw for you, let it be. And if it's not, it's not. But don't think that 20 minor incidents make for any less of a toxic relationship than 1 major one. Obviously this is not the first such incident, considering your relationship with your SM.

The best piece of advice I can give you is listen to both your head and your heart in this one, weigh what they're telling you and let your head make the choice. It's taken me 2 years since the last incident with my father to come to the realization that I will never again have a real relationship with him. It took that long for me to be able to sort out heart vs. head, so don't feel bad that after 2 days you haven't gotten it straightened out yet.
post #196 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneymum View Post
therapy.

I actually just decided to go back again. My DH has wonderful insurance that gives me 6 free sessions. I think one of the best ways to let go is to be able to release the frustrations at unmet expectations in a safe space. I totally feel the cliche of "dropping off baggage" I've been twice and I'm feeling lighter already.(I've done therapy twice before at different times in my life)

And if the cost/time etc of therapy just doesn't work for you..come vent to other folks who can listen and give feedback that will help you come to terms with things on your own (I MDC)

s mama! It's a crappy thing to have in your head/life etc. I think just being a wonderful parent to your own kiddos help heal alot of those wounds.

Thank you.
post #197 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by cristeen View Post


My story is floating around this forum somewhere too, and his response to your letter is very similar to the response I got from my father to a similar letter. It is indicative of a much bigger problem.

And as for "not really a valid reason", IMO, the straw that broke the camel's back is always a valid reason. Don't feel like you need to justify to us, we've all been there at one point or another. If this is the last straw for you, let it be. And if it's not, it's not. But don't think that 20 minor incidents make for any less of a toxic relationship than 1 major one. Obviously this is not the first such incident, considering your relationship with your SM.

The best piece of advice I can give you is listen to both your head and your heart in this one, weigh what they're telling you and let your head make the choice. It's taken me 2 years since the last incident with my father to come to the realization that I will never again have a real relationship with him. It took that long for me to be able to sort out heart vs. head, so don't feel bad that after 2 days you haven't gotten it straightened out yet.
Thank-You so much for this. I did get an email from my dad saying that he is very scared of dying right now. All of the men in his family die before the age of 63 and he just turned 62 two weeks ago. He apologized, and admitted that he had screwed up. He also admitted that he is extremely scared right now. It was nice to hear. I don't want to think of him dying, but it was so great to have him talk to me about how he was feeling and to own his actions.

I think that I have learned a lot about my relationship with my father through this though. I think that I need to take a bit more of a position of control in my interactions with him and with when and how my son sees him. I HATE going to visit at their house. They have a little Chihuahua that drives my son crazy and is constantly trying to bite him. I am petrified of the dog for my son and my stepmother's little digs are just getting out of control. I think that I need to meet my father out at a mall or for lunch or a park with my son so that he can run around and really play with his Papa. Being cooped up in a house with a scary dog, a million unsafe knick knacks and pills, a FREAKING HUGE TV, and a toxic stepgrandmother just isn't healthy for him. I am either going to visit less or get him to get out of his house. I just can't take it anymore. I want to be a grown up around him rather than a nervous little girl afraid of making people angry. I need to protect my son while nurturing my son's relationship with his Papa if he is going to have any relationship at all.

Thanks so much for having this thread here! I am sure I will be back soon!!
post #198 of 402
My straw was how my mom treated my stepfather's dog when she is mad at him. We had gone thru this whole big mess with my grandma dying and my mom hurting her by not asking the nurse to do stuff she was hired to do and sparing my grandmother's dignity as she was dying.

I went soft on my position and let her back in and ended up with a sack of doggie poo on my table the evening after Christmas. :That's when I made the connection that this is a process. Very symbolic. Everyone has their "enough's enough line." If I'm in contact with her I get that I can expect more of the same. Literally being you know what on. So the limits with her have to be very certain.
post #199 of 402
So, my mom hasn't called me in two weeks. It's a little sad, but also very liberating. It's weird to have mixed feelings about it.
post #200 of 402
So, I belong here but I can't read through the entire thread. I am now (happily) estranged from both of my toxic parents and one majorly toxic brother (mom's codependent) and one minorly toxic brother.

I came hunting for support tonight because the most psychotic brother left me a voicemail on my cell phone this evening after over a year of not speaking. Actually, I think he and I MAY have spoken once (unpleasantly) last year when my mother cut me off and then wanted back into my life and I resolved that I wasn't having it.

So I found this thread and thought "Wow... I belong here!". So I'm going back to read the rest of the messages.
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