support thread for mamas with toxic and/or estranged parents - Page 15

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by Amarantha

It's not so bad because I can screen her calls and I haven't lived with her full-time since I was 18, but she's the single biggest cause of stress in my life. I really wish I just had a normal mother who baked cookies and told me I was beautiful and wonderful.

Glad you found us.

Originally Posted by aniT

After 16 years I still have a problem coming to terms with the thought that "mothers suck" and I am the mother now.

for you too. This is the path I'm walking now... My mother was never the problem for me, but DH has real mother issues (I've never met my MIL), so I'm walking that fine line between living up to my own expectations (the baking cookies, coaching soccer kind of mom I had) while trying to teach DH about being a good parent, since he never had that modeled for him... luckily we both know what we DON'T want to do.

As I posted a few weeks ago, I got an email from my dad - I eventually read it and as expected all it did was pi$$ me off. It was all about how he wants to be a part of this baby's life and he doesn't want me preventing that. And not a word of apology for the things he's done and said, not a word in acknowledgment of the pain he's caused. Just all about how he's so hurt that I didn't tell him I was pg (after 2 years of no communication, WTF?!), and how he's hurt that obviously at this point I had no intention of telling him (ya think?). I spent the minimal amount of time being pissed off about it and then decided to let it go. It doesn't change anything, ultimately.

And then out of the blue I got a call from a cousin a few days ago. Haven't spoken to her in about 18 months (although we were fairly close at one point), and I had figured that she was taking the stance the rest of the family has. In the past she has lectured me about my relationship with my father, so I figured that's where this was headed... she was in town for the weekend and we went out to breakfast. She obviously knew I was pg - that was the first thing she asked when she walked in the door (and I was purposely not wearing maternity clothes, so I just looked a little chubbier than normal). And while I was under a lot of stress just waiting for the subject to come up, not once did she mention my father. She did tentatively ask about my sister, but the way she asked was like she knew it was a taboo subject, but felt the need to broach it (I'd asked her about her siblings). When I told her the situation, she was shocked - obviously she'd only ever heard part of the story, and that didn't include the fact that my sister cut us off, and not the other way around. She invited us up to visit her on her farm (first time she's done that), and when we dropped her off, she told me that if I wanted some help when the baby arrived to call her and she'd come down and stay with us for a while.

Afterwards, DH said he felt like she was an independent agent... obviously she'd heard that I was pg from her mom (who's close with my dad), but nothing in the conversation over breakfast felt like she was trying to do any more than catch up on 18 months of lapsed relationship. So apparently there is someone in my family who still cares, which is nice to know.

[LionTigerBear]

Hey everyone, I don't think I've posted here before. (???) I'm 26, mom of three (ages 5 to 4 months) and I haven't contacted my mom in 13 months.

There is such a wide range of feelings involved, but guilt and relief and joy are the primary ones, I think. Sometimes I still cry.

The thing is, my mom can be such a sweet thing when she wants to be. But she has personality disorders (not officially diagnosed.) She has been so cruel to me throughout my life. I finally started a list of the things she's done over the years. She was, really, a horrible mother, all in all.

I hate saying that because I am afraid that my own children will disown me someday, that it really was all my fault that she abused me etc etc.

I just had a little girl (the older two are boys) and I feel, on one hand, excited and so overjoyed to be able to be the mother *I* never had, and yet on the other hand, afraid that I won't have what it takes.

My biggest mommy inspiration comes from my dad's sister, one of my dad's ex-girlfriends. I try to be the kind of mom they were. It's hard.

[jeminijad]

Wow. I belong here.

I am not going to give the whole schpiel on what a twisted, sad person my mother is... there have been too many things over my life to cram into one post. Here are highlights that accurately represent her overal pattern of behavior:

-she mocked my developing body around age 12, cruelly, in public
-she mocked my intelligence and achievements regularly
-she slandered her own mother and my father, in ways I later found to be untrue
-she screams and rants if ever called on any of her BS
-she took my first debit card, stole money and caused me to overdraw my first checking account
-she absconded with a bunch of jewelry from one of her fly by night moneymaking efforts, which her mother covered the $$ for
-she has deliberately caused my much younger (aspergian) brother to become obese
-she left my father, middle brother & I (I was 13) and moved to Texas with my tiny brother, selling most of our (including my) possessions to finance her amtrak ticket. this ended up being a blessing, truly

The last time she slapped me, I slapped her back. I was done.

I never, NEVER call her. She rarely calls me. She flew up here (I'm in PA, she is in TX) when she heard thru the grapevine I had had a baby. I refused to let her stay in my home, so she got a hotel and a rental car for a week. She threw in my face how much this cost her, but did not do anything for the baby. Fortunately, I don't need anything, because I have a steady job and am a responsible human being (she can't even balance a checkbook and dropped out of high school.)

I am modelling my mothering my daughter after my MIL.

[aniT]

Well my daughter's councilor "suggested" my mom come to the next appointment which was today.

What I learned today is:

My mother "forgave" her mother for beating her every day for three years becuase she realizes she was under tremendous stress. And since she is her mother forgiving her was what you do as a sign of respect. My grandmother never appolgized and she never expected one.

My mother has NOTHING to apologize for and it is rediculous of me to hold a grudge for "30 years" (25 really).

Everything I remember is WRONG. It happened exactly the way my mother said it did (even if she is lying).

Apparently I scream at her (yea right try the other way around.)

Oh yea and I shove my husband down her throat because I put pepper in the mashed potatoes when I make them cause he likes it that way and she doesn't. (never mind "I" like it that way.)



the next appointment outta be interesting.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by aniT

What I learned today is:

My mother "forgave" her mother for beating her every day for three years becuase she realizes she was under tremendous stress. And since she is her mother forgiving her was what you do as a sign of respect. My grandmother never appolgized and she never expected one.

My mother has NOTHING to apologize for and it is rediculous of me to hold a grudge for "30 years" (25 really).

Everything I remember is WRONG. It happened exactly the way my mother said it did (even if she is lying).

If I went to counseling with my mom (pointless) this is probably how it would go. I can totally relate. Oh, except, it's my fault she beat me. I was such a naughty 5yo . . . . . . actually, I was a quiet, shy, reserved and obedient child. I got beaten for being "lazy", "stupid", and for standing near my mischievous older brother when he did naughty things. Oh, and for defending myself from him. :

[aniT]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

If I went to counseling with my mom (pointless) this is probably how it would go. I can totally relate. Oh, except, it's my fault she beat me. I was such a naughty 5yo . . . . . . actually, I was a quiet, shy, reserved and obedient child. I got beaten for being "lazy", "stupid", and for standing near my mischievous older brother when he did naughty things. Oh, and for defending myself from him. :

Yes.. the reason she let her husband beat me with a belt buckle when I got mad cause she said I could stay home (they were going to out dinner with my grandmother) and then he said I had to go was because in between they found out I was going to go down the street to hang out with a "known pot dealer." Who was this known pot dealer and HOW DID I MISS HIM/HER! I was going to the neighbors to hang out with a boy I liked.

I think she, like Amanda, thought I would go to counseling with them and the councilor would tell me how wrong I am and how "I" need all this help. But she didn't do that.. she told my mom that yes sometimes you DO need to apologize and yes it is OK to hold a grudge for 25 years because unresolved hurt turns into grudges. So there!

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by aniT

I think she, like Amanda, thought I would go to counseling with them and the councilor would tell me how wrong I am and how "I" need all this help. But she didn't do that.. she told my mom that yes sometimes you DO need to apologize and yes it is OK to hold a grudge for 25 years because unresolved hurt turns into grudges. So there!

Isn't it nice to be validated? Sigh.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

Isn't it nice to be validated? Sigh.

Well she has agreed to go in two week so we will see how that goes. Really.. I just want her to stop freaking out like a crazy person then lying to everyone and telling them I am the one that did this. These episodes often happen in front of my children too so I want to protect them from her insanity. I am only going for my daughter who is living with her... and because they act exactly the same (screaming and demeaning me to get their way.) I get it coming from two directions.

[Leatherette]

I am sorry you are going through this, AniT.

My mother said she wanted to apologize to me two years ago, and I took the bait. We went to her house (me and my sister), and she proceeded to yell at me about things that I "did" in high school (I was 36 when I met with her). Then I got yelled at for looking "uncomfortable", and what was wrong with me that I did not feel comfortable in my own mother's house (after 7 years of her not speaking to me)? I walked away and have not looked back, again.

You are brave to attempt counseling. I live 3000 miles away from my mom, but even if we were next door neighbors, I don't think I could do it.



L.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by Leatherette

I am sorry you are going through this, AniT.

My mother said she wanted to apologize to me two years ago, and I took the bait. We went to her house (me and my sister), and she proceeded to yell at me about things that I "did" in high school (I was 36 when I met with her). Then I got yelled at for looking "uncomfortable", and what was wrong with me that I did not feel comfortable in my own mother's house (after 7 years of her not speaking to me)? I walked away and have not looked back, again.

You are brave to attempt counseling. I live 3000 miles away from my mom, but even if we were next door neighbors, I don't think I could do it.



L.

Thanks!

I moved 750 miles away from her and she followed me. :

[princesstutu]

Originally Posted by aniT

My mother "forgave" her mother for beating her every day for three years becuase she realizes she was under tremendous stress. And since she is her mother forgiving her was what you do as a sign of respect. My grandmother never appolgized and she never expected one.

My mother has NOTHING to apologize for and it is rediculous of me to hold a grudge for "30 years" (25 really).

Everything I remember is WRONG. It happened exactly the way my mother said it did (even if she is lying).

Good luck with the counseling. Your mom sounds an awful lot like mine, 10 years ago. You know what helped my mother see the light?

1- I stopped talking to her for 10 years.

2- Her middle child is worse than I could have ever been and has given her so much grief, she was able to look at me more realistically.

Now she tells everyone I was her most obedient child (looks like I was...my younger siblings tell me things they did that I wouldn't have even thought to do!) and I'm the only one she'll apologize to and mean it (in her own deranged way).

Good luck! I believe people can change for the better. Maybe that's my problem.

[A&A]

I'm so tired of my mom harping on me about how I need to "forgive" my father. Why, exactly, should I forgive a man who has never even asked for my forgiveness?

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by A&A

I'm so tired of my mom harping on me about how I need to "forgive" my father. Why, exactly, should I forgive a man who has never even asked for my forgiveness?

This is my perpetual question... if the person doesn't ask for forgiveness or repent their ways, why would I both forgive and open myself up to a repeat performance?

ETA - figured I'd give a little update... I talked to my grandmother last week, and apparently she has been cut off from the rest of the family (my sister and father). The only reason I can come up with is that they're punishing her for not telling them I was pregnant, since she hasn't heard from them since they found out back around Mother's Day. I feel horrible that I put her in that position, but I apologized for my part in it, and she basically told me that it wasn't her secret to tell, so "oh well".

[aniT]

Originally Posted by cristeen

This is my perpetual question... if the person doesn't ask for forgiveness or repent their ways, why would I both forgive and open myself up to a repeat performance?

ETA - figured I'd give a little update... I talked to my grandmother last week, and apparently she has been cut off from the rest of the family (my sister and father). The only reason I can come up with is that they're punishing her for not telling them I was pregnant, since she hasn't heard from them since they found out back around Mother's Day. I feel horrible that I put her in that position, but I apologized for my part in it, and she basically told me that it wasn't her secret to tell, so "oh well".

What the hell? You didn't give us dirt so you are no longer part of our family!!!! It doesn't sound like she is overly broken up about it though.

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by aniT

What the hell? You didn't give us dirt so you are no longer part of our family!!!! It doesn't sound like she is overly broken up about it though.

Yup, basically.

Luckily, she's not too terribly broken up about it. She's never had much use for my father, and it's only in the last 2 years that I've started getting the story behind that (both from her and from my mother's BFF from HS), but she didn't speak to my father for about 15 years - from the time we were old enough to drive ourselves up to see them until about the time I got married (or maybe it was when g'pa was diagnosed with cancer). Everything since then has been initiated by him. As for my sister... some of that story has started coming out, too. But basically g'ma wasn't really hearing much from her anyway - and has only actually spoken to her once since she got married last Feb, when she called her and reamed her for not keeping in touch or letting her know she'd moved from NYC to TX (which she found out from me - she'd shipped Xmas presents to NYC). But apparently my sister had "borrowed" money from g'ma (who's on a fixed income), and never paid it back, even though she was making something like 6 figures. Anyway... with all that, g'ma just doesn't seem too torn up over it, regardless of how guilty *I* feel.

[AirMiami]

Can I join your tribe mama's? My story is long and babe is sleeping in my lap right now so I can't type it out, but I would just like to say that I'm finally moving away from my toxic mother and stepfather again. It's been a very difficult 3 years for DH and I, especially because we live with these people. However, I feel like I'm finally waking up after a long dream. Good luck to others with toxic parents, sometimes the only thing you can do is get away from them.

[leaveit2beeker]

I am also interested in being part of this tribe. I haven't seen it before and believe you me, I'll be looking for it from now on.

I am the youngest of 6 siblings, but 10+ years separate me from them (as many as 21 years.) My dad was on the verge of leaving my mentally ill mom for another woman, and my mom became pregnant with me. That was it, my dad left. No one in my family will admit that my mom became pregnant as a last ditch effort, but it's not hard to figure out. So let's just say, I was a failure to her before we even met. She was diagnosed with manic depressive in her twenties, but really, and completely, fell apart during my childhood. I was shipped from sister to sister during inpatient treatments, no one ever really 'volunteered' to take me in for the summer. I even spent one summer with my alcoholic, estranged father and new gf, because no one else could take me. My oldest sister took legal custody of me at 14, and my mom was admitted to a LTC facility soon after. Haven't spoken with her since, and frankly, I tell everyone she already died. I have no desire to visit, especially now with a son of my own. She has early-onset dementia, and from all accounts, I'd be surprised if she could recognize me. My father's gf died within the past few years, and his own health is failing. (He is 70 this year.) Somehow he has earned everyone's forgiveness but mine, and that has really set me apart from my siblings (among other factors.)

My sister that had the custody of me? We have such a turbulent history, she divorced her husband (who became a father to me) and became outraged that I sided with him. She had confessed many many wrongdoings to me (I was 17!) including drug abuse and affairs, yet she expected me to remain loyal to her. I couldn't do it, and paid a dear price for it...including the ol' "After everything I did for you!" guilt trip.

I never even told anyone in my family I was pregnant. Or that I had given birth. They all came to visit after the fact at a few weeks' postpartum. Why, I have no idea. Because they felt like they had to? Still a mystery. I've seen a few of them a handful of times in 18 months, and that feels like too much. I'd rather rid myself of it all and start from scratch.

Thanks for letting me say it all, and I look forward to future discussions. -Janelle

[cristeen]

to those who have recently found our little tribe. We're not the most active of tribes, but it's always nice to know there are others who understand.

[layne]

to everyone. I haven't posted here in a while.
I recently gave my sister and aunt permission to give my phone number to my mother. Then my sister told me that my mother, who has been living with her parents for a while, has found a part time job. My mother's mental health problems are basically severe enough and she is in enough denial about stuff that for her to be working is huge progress in terms of relative personal stability. I'm so proud of her.
I feel guilty about this because a part of me feels like I should be her daughter unconditionally and try harder to have a relationship etc., but with all the turmoil my own family has had in the past couple of years, I couldn't cope with her issues on top.
Anyway, my situation is getting more settled and I wanted her to know how proud I was that she was working too so I called her parents and let them know I was willing to talk with her and everyone was pretty happy with that. We did talk and it was sort of respectfully distant. I told her I was proud and she asked about the divorce, etc.
I don't think we will ever have a healthy relationship like other mothers and daughters and I feel more like she is a prodigal child than a parent but I am glad we are at least speaking again.
I hope you all have progress too, whether in finding peace with your mothers or finding peace apart from them.

[majikfaerie]