support thread for mamas with toxic and/or estranged parents - Page 18

[A&A]

Originally Posted by layne

and a sibling unfriended me without explanation a few years ago.
big hugs to you!

If they closed their Facebook account completely, it will look like they unfriended you.

[layne]

I bet that's what happened. I never brought it up in person. It was more funny than upsetting. Facebook family stuff is so weird.

[cmhermes]

Unfortunately, I would love to join your group. I grew up in an abusive house. My Dad sexually molested me and physically abused my younger brother. My parents divorced when I was 7 and my Dad got custody of us because my Mom could not stop drinking long enough to care for us. She also has mental illness, depression and I have a very strong belief that there is also a psychotic disorder, too, although she just recently began medication for that (and recently stopped all meds).

When I was 11, my Dad was arrested for the abuse. He never served jail time, but had 15 yrs probation. He re-offended after probation and is now serving 32 years in the state prison. The odd thing is I have a pretty ok relationship with him. We talk every couple of weeks and I see him twice a year. I can talk to him because he admits to what he did and went to years of family counseling with me.

My Mom is another story all together. She has always been cold, distant, critical. I always felt as if I were a bother, a burden to her. She has been a binge/periodic drinker for as long as I remember. Recently, she began dating my best friend's father, who happens to be an alcoholic and gambler. She's drinking again. She has been avoidant of both my brother and me. This is the 1st drinking episode she's had since I have become a mother myself and it is deeply affecting me. It is dredging up all the past feelings of rejection and emotional abandonment I felt from her. And she cannot seem to see who my brother and I have stopped talking to her. She thinks we are jealous of her new relationship. It's not that, its that she has chosen to ignore us, lie to us and refuses to see how her actions have hurt us.

So I am distancing myself from her. She did not even care when I had to take my girls to the Urgent Care Center right before the New Year. Any other time she would have dropped anything to come help me bring two small toddlers to the ER, but she was too busy getting drunk. I don't want my daughter's to be exposed to her alcoholism. So I cut her off from them, at least for the time being. I need to get my head in the right place in order to be around her and I certainly won't let her take them by herself now that she is drinking again.

Sigh. I thought we were getting along so much better ever since my ODD was born. I recently purchased the book "Mothering without a Map" by Kathryn Black. It's helping me deal with my emotions. I am also seeing a therapist-again. I've been seeing one off and on since I was 11. 1st for the abuse issues and then later for an eating disorder. My Mom has never joined in family therapy the way my Dad did. After my 1st hospitalization at 16 she refused to join in the sessions. She's afraid of having to deal with her own past. In some ways I feel sorry for her, but mostly at this point I'm angry and sad that I'll never have the Mother I've always craved. I know I need to be the Mother I always wanted for my girls. I want them to never doubt my love and support of them.

Anyway, thank you for this group and thank you for letting me tell you a bit of my story and where I am at right now.

Christine

[LilMamiBella]

After almost a year of not talking to my mom, I decided to pick her up and let her stay 2 weeks to see her grandkids. It was like once she had gotten here she couldn't wait to leave! Then I invited her down for Christmas. During that time we went to the grocery store and she said she would pay for $200 of it. I ended up spending $289. So I paid for the $89 and even gave her some of it back. When dh finally took her home (5 hours away) she asked him for the money I "owed" her. He didn't give her anything cause he didn't know about any of this and said she needed to talk to me about it. She even contacted me on facebook about it. So I unfriended her. So she's emailed, texted, and called me and even told my siblings (who I'm not that close to) about it as well. At the time she never mentioned wanting any more money so I thought things were okay. It pisses me off and I'll pay her but I'm not talking to her.

[mokey4]

new here

I don't know if I belong in this thread but I'll sub and read for a while and see how it goes..

I am not technically estranged from my parents, though I feel like in every way that matters I am. My mother is a narcissist, she is immature and verbally abusive to me, my sister, and my father. She acts like I'm her best friend and seems to think (or want to believe) that she has been a great mother, and can't handle the truth. Sometimes I enjoy her company, and there are some good things about her.... but really she is toxic and if I spend too much time around her I get very anxious. I moved across the country to get away from her.

My dad is a functional alcoholic and generally goes along with whatever my mom wants, even as she destroys the family finances and acts terribly to all the people around them. He does rebel in his passive-aggressive way. He is completely emotionally unavailable- the only time he ever expresses emotion is when he's talking about his dog (my husband pointed this out to me).

My sister is 32 and lives at home with our parents... she's absorbed all the family dysfunction and has some serious issues. My parents are going to be caring for her the rest of their lives, and I guess then she'll be my problem.

subbing..

[sophmama]

joining in on this group. i'm not on speaking terms with my parents because they have continually supported my abusive/ alcoholic ex husband through my divorce - giving him large sums of money, helping him 'plot' to try to force me to stay for 9 months after I made it clear I was done with him. I don't have the stomach right now to detail out the rest of what they did, but suffice it to say, even after confronting them, they seem oblivious to their wrongs. they're ultra conservative pro-marriage even-if-it's-hell people.

I don't miss actually interacting with them much - they were often a headache as they have no sense of normal boundaries. my dad is always trying to guilt you into doing things you don't want to in front of other people and conniving ways to rope you into arrangements you don't like. My mom is a wife-submission hard core woman and went along with some things I think are downright evil to support my dad.

I do wish I could talk with him about some business things occasionally and I hate it that they are hurting not getting to speak to their daughter. I have actually let them see the kids twice this past year. They're also racist and homophobic and a bunch of other things I don't want my kids to be exposed to too much, regardless of the bigger issues.

The situation hurts me though a lot. I dream about them a lot. I'm sad knowing that they don't have the capacity to love me the way I love my kids. I want my kids to be happy in life no matter what road that leads them down. I want to support them without judgment or disappointment if they don't make me look good to whatever social group I belong to.

My parents have long hinted that they want me to take care of them financially as soon as I possibly can. That just sucks. I hope my kids never give me money. That's just wrong on so many levels.

I'd better stop before I get too far into the mud of this relationship. D*** there's a lot of hurt in there.

[AirMiami]

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Edited by AirMiami - 12/9/10 at 7:18pm

[Labbemama]

I just wanted to say Hi to our new tribe members.

An update on me: I am working on taking the steps to legally change my name and just slip away from my stalker of an ex and the majority of my familly. It's very painful, but my stbx keeps calling my mom and she keeps passing info both ways and so it's a high priority issue for us to stay safe.

[skyblufig]

I just found this thread, and it couldn't have happened at a better time. We cut all ties with my mother and 2 brothers back in Jan 2007. I won't get into all the background craziness right now, but suffice it to say she doesn't know our dd exists, and doesn't know we've got another ds on the way.

Or so I thought.

Yesterday, "someone" left a pound of coffee beans on our stroller down by our mailboxes in the lobby of our building. No indication of who it's from or who it's for, but... it's the brand of coffee she always bought and it's decaf. I felt like I needed some sort of confirmation that I'm not totally jumping to irrational conclusions, so I called my older sister last night (we're still very close) and as soon as I mentioned what we found she was right on the same page with me. Other things have shown up in the past and we've just ignored them and thrown them in with a drop off to Salvation Army, but this was just too weird. She's done this more recently and I believe it's just to prove to us that she can, indeed, get into our courtyard (most likely piggy-backing on someone else coming in). Our management company knows she's not allowed anywhere near the kids but they can't watch the gate 24/7. My dh thinks I'm being over-sensitive and a little paranoid - and I suppose it does sound that way - but like I told him, if you grew up in my FOO's house, you'd be wary too. Plus, if it was from one of our neighbors, they always put at least a "to" and/or "from" type note on whatever it is. Personally, I feel like she's just gotten unstable enough to know not to leave any evidence that it was her. I strongly dislike feeling and sounding this way, but that's what she's always counted on -- keeping us off-balance and making us question our own sanity as opposed to questioning her toxic motives. (A couple of years ago she left a note at our door saying she'd been sitting on our stairs for 3 hours, waiting for us to come home. Dh called her to let her know that if she ever pulled a stunt like that again, we'd get the police involved.)

I can't explain exactly how much this is stressing me out; we're planning a home birth and the very last thing I need right now is this nutjob showing up again. She's diabolical, literally a sociopath, as are my brothers. I feel like I have to sneak around my own home for the next year, until we move out of this apartment and she finally won't be able to find us anymore.

Thanks for listening.

[Raine822]

Wow, I felt as if I was the only one dealing with a toxic and recently estranged mother. My mother was very emotionally abusive growing up. She always uses insults and guilt to get her way. It always has to be about her. Since the birth of my 1st dd she has been horrible. She claims to love her grandkids but her entire relationship with them is about what she wants. Ex: she allows my dd to put metal objects in her mouth because she finds it amusing and she feeds my daughter candy that we have expressly forbid(its all chemicals and sugar and made in china). The stories of what she does are long so I wont rant here all at once. In addition to the many safety issues she gains attention by being very emotional. Once she was on her way to our home and heard sirens in the distance. She arrived crying hysterically because she thought we died in an accident. She overreacts like this all the time. When she did visit my dd1 she would critize everything i did-right in front of her.

It all came to an end 2 months ago when 3 days after my dd2 was born she came to see her(never came to the hospital). She brought a letter she wrote. Three pages of how horrible we treat her and all the wrongs we did. Including that she has to "walk on eggshells" when she visits(meaning she does not get her way all the time), how she will never change, and she refuses to come to out house any more-we must bring the kids to her and allow unsupervised time(which is not allowed).

I am struggling with sadness that her and my dds have no relationship but understanding logically that it is better for my dds that she is not around.

Also, every time she has one of her "poor me" sessions is always when I am having a big/happy event in my life.

-First dd birth-she called every 5 minutes or less to cry about how my doctors was wrong and the horrible things that could go wrong while I was in labor...all about how scared she was and not about me having a baby.
-dd1 first christmas-I worked all day to cook a meal and she threw a fit when I wanted to eat before presents because she wanted to see my 4 month old open gifts. She refused to eat and stayed outside and cried over being asked to wait 30 minutes. She cried for hours.

There are many more but I'll try not to vent too much.

Thank you all for being here and sharing your stories. I don't feel so alone.

[AirMiami]

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Edited by AirMiami - 12/9/10 at 7:18pm

[skyblufig]

My mom is very emotionally and verbally toxic, but she does not physically hurt my siblings, though we have gotten into some physical fights and she left bruises on me once.

I wouldn't worry about the letter as much as I'd worry about the people still experiencing the emotional and verbal abuse. And it is abusive behavior, even if it doesn't leave marks where you can see them. It took me more than 3 years of therapy to learn how to stand up for myself and not be manipulated by toxic family members. People who abuse in any way, shape or form should be held accountable imo. You didn't do anything wrong by telling someone about it and sharing your concerns.

[AirMiami]

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Edited by AirMiami - 12/9/10 at 7:18pm

[skyblufig]

I am VERY worried about the people still experiencing the abuse, because if my mother finds out I said these things, she will take it out on them. Plus, they're minors, and I won't be able to see them if she cuts me out. My siblings mean the world to me, I love them as much as I love my own daughter, and I'm the only "normal" adult they have regular contact with. They're the only reason I even keep minimal contact with my mom.

That is definitely a tough situation. I'm so sorry. Hopefully the family member you wrote to has enough sense to keep it between you two. If your mom does have untreated BPD, that is indeed an awful environment for those kids to grow up in. I say this from experience; my dad refused any treatment for BPD, as did both of my brothers, and we never knew which dad we were getting from day to day. I (of course) don't know what your relationship is like with the person you sent the letter to, but hopefully they're someone you can count on to be discreet. In my own FOO, I have exactly 6 people whom we stay in touch with and can speak openly about all the various family craziness: my sister, my aunt, my uncle, and my 3 cousins. Before we established our independence from the rest of the family, I always felt wary of anything I said/wrote/did with anyone in the family, simply because the potential for it to blow up in our faces was omnipresent. That's just such a terrible situation. Try not to stress yourself out too much. Best of luck to you,

[Raine822]

Me and my mother have not spoken in almost 2 months. She is the one who initiated it. I know from past experience that she will not stay gone. She thinks she is hurting me by staying away(yeah right) and will ultimatly get what she wants. Here is the letter she gave me and dh(three days after birth of dd2):

It's time I have a talk with you. I'm writing because I don't want any screaming. I can't take it anymore. I just have to get this off my chest. Please don't get me wrong, I am not blaming everything on you and J(yet she admits to doing nothing specific wrong?), I am just letting you know what is bothering me. K, you only get one mother in this world. I am sorry you got stuck with me. I don't know what I did to you in life that makes you so hateful towards me. If you would like to talk about it I am here for you. I always will be. I have been a worry wart all my life, it drove me nuts when you kids were little. I can't change, you will just have to accept it. I accept the way you are(but tries to change every little thing about me). There are things I don't agree with you about but I don't yell at you(she uses insults instead). You and J both treat me like s---. I have to walk on eggshells everytime I come to your house("walking on eggshells" means she cannot feed my dd1 loads of sugar and undermine us a parents). I am so afraid of )saying or doing something wrong(she does things then behind our backs) in fear that you will yell at me(I've raised my voice 4 times in 18 months). That's not the way it is supposed to be. You are my daughter, it should feel very comfortable in your house. The fact that you will not let me watch your kids puts a knife right through my heart(not allowed to be alone with kids for saftey reasons). I have been watching L(my neice) since she was born and I do a h--- of a job.(she waits until parents leave and does what she wants). It gives us time to bond together. You won't give me the chance to bond with R(she is welcome in our home anytime/used to come once a week-just not allowed alone). What does J's mother have that I don't? She gets to keep R overnight every week. Why can't I? You have never given me an honest answer(have discussed many times). I really need to know.And the fact that you called me 20 minutes before C was born is proof you did notwant me there(she was at birth of dd1 and has said since she did not want to attent birth of dd2). A very important moment in my life-to be there when my granddaughter was born, you took that away from me.(she feels that kids/grandkids are her "right" and it's all about her). I see you bff was there(when mom said did not want to be there I needed to find other support). You must have called me last. Another stab in the heart. Honey, I don't want to go on like this, I want us all to get along. K, this is the hardest thing I ever had to do in life, but I have to do it. Until you and J start treating me with respect, I can no longer come to your house. However, I hope you can find it in your heart to bring R and C over to see me. I love all three of my grandbabies more than life itself.

After this she has not called us in almost 2 months. I added some comments of mine to clarify. She also has pulled this cutting me off 21 other times before. She really feels that she has a right to my children even if she behaves inappropriately and that she cannot and does not have to change.

Now, my dilemma is this, my dd1s birthday is comming up. Do I invite toxic mom or not?

If I don't what to do about my family. Someone will probably tell her where and when. I fear her showing up and causing a huge scene. I fear my family will back her up.

She also always will talk about her right to my kids. Does she have a right. The long silence makes me fear she is planning something. Can she try to get unsupervised visation legally?

Sorry for the very long post but any advice would really help.

[skyblufig]

As long as you're asking for advice... I can offer this:

1.) That letter has "I am a martyr, poor me" all over it. It's meant to manipulate you and make you feel bad so you do what she wants you to do. Blech. It's no one's business but yours who's at the birth of your kids, and why she thinks she has a right to be there is beyond me. She had her chance with her own births. Same with who watches your kids, who gets to be alone with them, what they eat, etc. None of her business. Your home, your rules.

2.) I don't know what state you're in, but if you Google "grandparents visitation rights" and your state, you can find out exactly what she can fight for legally. For instance, in IL there has to be one of the following conditions for a grandparent to take parents to court for visitation rights: a.) one of the parents is dead or has been missing or in jail for at least 3 months, b.) divorce, c.) grandchildren born out of wedlock. But the onus is still on the grandparents to prove their visitation isn't interfering with the rights of the parents to raise their children as they see fit. I would advise that if you're worried about her actually taking you to court, start documenting everything. Save every email/letter/voicemail. Document unstable/abusive behavior and note anyone who witnessed it. Include dates and times. Everything. Throw it in a file for "just in case".

3.) The birthday party? No way. And make it clear to the family that you do invite that this is your home, your child, and they are not to bring any uninvited guests with them. Some may choose to not come and that's their choice. But personally, I wouldn't reward her icky letter and petulant behavior with an invitation to a birthday party. It would only reinforce the behavior and the idea in her mind that manipulation = she gets what she wants. Also, anyone that tries to gang up on you in your own home should not be tolerated. You're not a child and this isn't their call. Ask them to leave. It may sound harsh, but IME people do weird stuff when they're stuck in that sort of family dynamic and there's always a few who stir the pot for their own benefit. Again, blech.

I'm so sorry again that you have all this going on. It's such an energy-sucker and so unpleasant to deal with. Hopefully it gets easier soon.

[Tapioca]

I don't have any really useful advice. I wouldn't invite toxic mum. I don't know about grandparent rights, I don't think Canada has this concept yet.

Glad to see this thread bumped.

[Tapioca]

So, my sadness recently is over my sister. I'm starting to realise she is a lot like my parents, with a lot of the same crappy behaviours, manipulative, not really there, lacking empathy etc. The weird thing is she and I have talked for hours about the olds and how whack jobby they are. But when it comes to herself, there's a huge blindspot.

Just sad. I was really hoping she's be 'there' for me, and we'd be close, but I realised that whenever we speak, it's about her and HER problems, and she has nothing to say if I ever want to talk about anything. I am processing this right now. A dream is dying, I guess.

[A&A]

Anyone else hate Mother's Day and Father's Day?

(My mom used to tell me every Mother's Day, "If you really wanted to honor me, you'd come back to church." The church I was raised in.)

[AirMiami]

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Edited by AirMiami - 12/9/10 at 7:18pm