Nursing in swimming pool - article - Page 3

[RomanGoddess]

Originally Posted by johnsmom

I'm just not sure that the toddler in this incidence was being 'fed'. I think she was being 'comforted'. And nursing is how this mother comforts her toddler.
I don't know if the question "would a bottlefed baby be allowed to eat in the pool?" is appropriate here. I think the question is "Would a non-nurisng toddler be allowed to be cuddled in the pool?"
This little girl wasn't looking for a snack in the pool, she just needed some attention from her mother in a way that is normal to her and should be normal to all of us. Nursing is a biologically normal way for a mother to offer comfort to her kids, not just food.

Er, I really don't think we can ask people to get into those nuances. Cuddling, fed, who knows? What IF she was being fed. I think that breastfeeding is either in the pool or it is not, period. You can't ask the pool monitor to determine each time why the child is being breastfed.

[frontierpsych]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Here's my general litmus test for whether or not it's OK to nurse somewhere: Would it be OK to bottlefeed in the same exact situation? I don't have a problem restricting breastfeeding in a "no foods or beverages" zone.

That. I think it's a tad silly not to be able to nurse on the steps, but at least the rules apply across the board and don't single out nursing moms.

[readytobedone]

i would get out of the pool to BF. i agree that it's more like "food and drink" in that setting. that said, i don't necessarily think BF moms should be FORCED to get out of the pool. seems more like a common courtesy to me.

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by RomanGoddess

Er, I really don't think we can ask people to get into those nuances. Cuddling, fed, who knows? What IF she was being fed. I think that breastfeeding is either in the pool or it is not, period. You can't ask the pool monitor to determine each time why the child is being breastfed.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by frontierpsych

That. I think it's a tad silly not to be able to nurse on the steps, but at least the rules apply across the board and don't single out nursing moms.

And isn't that what nursing mothers want??

[PiesandAbrosmama]

I thought it was reasonable to say no breastfeeding IN the Pool. She could get out and nurse just not in the water. This is not rude, I don't want food, drinks, and such in the water and if they let me what could they do but allow all people the equal right. Just my thoughts and I think we have the right to breastfeed anywhere this just makes logical since to me

[sweetpeppers]

I'd be pissed if it were me. Nursing isn't the same as eating anything else. For one thing, she'd be more likely to get milk in the pool if the child wasn't nursing. Are they going to ban nursing mothers from swimming in public pools? The whole thing is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with "health" issues, it's discriminating against nursing babies.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by sweetpeppers

I'd be pissed if it were me. Nursing isn't the same as eating anything else. For one thing, she'd be more likely to get milk in the pool if the child wasn't nursing. Are they going to ban nursing mothers from swimming in public pools? The whole thing is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with "health" issues, it's discriminating against nursing babies.

Then wouldn't it be discrimination against pumping and formula feeding moms that they couldn't feed in the pool like the breastfeeding moms? Discrimination goes both ways - either everyone is allowed to eat in the pool or no one is allowed.

[SwanMom]

Originally Posted by johnsmom

I'm just not sure that the toddler in this incidence was being 'fed'. I think she was being 'comforted'. And nursing is how this mother comforts her toddler.
I don't know if the question "would a bottlefed baby be allowed to eat in the pool?" is appropriate here. I think the question is "Would a non-nurisng toddler be allowed to be cuddled in the pool?"
This little girl wasn't looking for a snack in the pool, she just needed some attention from her mother in a way that is normal to her and should be normal to all of us. Nursing is a biologically normal way for a mother to offer comfort to her kids, not just food.

I agree with this. You can't compare breastfeeding to eating other foods. Nursing my toddler is part of the way I comfort and cuddle him. If I weren't allowed to comfort him in this way, he might easily freak out (a scary sight, let me tell you! ). On the other hand, DS1 was bottle fed, and he never needed a bottle for comfort after he was a year old. I could just hold him and cuddle him and he was fine.

Also, I believe that in the US, breastmilk is not classified as a bodily fluid. Is it the same in Canada?

I love how they're so concerned with getting breastmilk in the pool. Uh...are you going to screen every woman to see whether or not she's lactating before she gets in the pool? Because heaven forbid that breastmilk (a very clean substance) "contaminate" the pool that's full of pee and other traces of bodily fluids, some of which could be from people with various diseases...

[KirstenMary]

Then what about the bottle feeding mother who argues that she is letting the child suckle for comfort? Should that child not be allowed to eat? Because both the bottle-fed and breastfed child are, in fact, eating, regardless of the emotional benefits. And what about breastmilk in bottles? I EP'd for the first four months of Jordan's life. It was breastmilk. Should that have been allowed, too?

In location A, it's okay to bottle-feed. So breastfeeding should be allowed, too.

That I can get behind.

In location B, it is not okay to bottle-feed. Breastfeeding should still be allowed.

Sorry, this I cannot get behind. And frankly, I think it's this mentality that gives lactivists a bad name.

[G8P4]

[QUOTE]Then what about the bottle feeding mother who argues that she is letting the child suckle for comfort?[/QUOTE

]A bottle fed baby can suckle for comfort on a pacifier. She doesn't have to have a bottle filled with food.

I agree with the view others have espressed here, that breastfeeding is more than about food. This incident sure illustrates this point. To say "you have to let bottle feeding mothers bottle feed their babies at the poolside if you are going to let breastfeeding mothers feed their babies at the poolside" is wrong, IMO. They aren't the same at all. Breastfeeding is a unique situation and it needs to have unique rules and standards that apply, so that it can be protected, promoted and supported. I think that's what a lot of people are having trouble wrapping their heads around.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by G8P4

A bottle fed baby can suckle for comfort on a pacifier. She doesn't have to have a bottle filled with food.

Just because a child will use a bottle does not mean that they will also accept a pacifier.

[thismama]

I agree that the biology involved in nursing makes it different to bottlefeeding. Breastfed babies are nursed more often than bottlefed babies are fed, we know this because we know the ff-based scheduling advice is a sure way to ruin bm supply. Bottlefed babies are also more likely to take a pacifier than bf babies. Plus IME once a breastfed baby sees any part of your boob, you're done for. So it would be much easier for a ff mama to 'schedule' a feeding before the pool, offer a pacifier during, and then feed another bottle after. This IME as a breastfeeder doesn't work out well at all.

We can't fall into the trap of making ff style feeding the prototype upon which to base policy re: all infant feeding. We've played that game a few times now and it doesn't work out well for breastfeeding mamas and babes.

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by G8P4

Then what about the bottle feeding mother who argues that she is letting the child suckle for comfort?

A bottle fed baby can suckle for comfort on a pacifier. She doesn't have to have a bottle filled with food.

I agree with the view others have espressed here, that breastfeeding is more than about food. This incident sure illustrates this point. To say "you have to let bottle feeding mothers bottle feed their babies at the poolside if you are going to let breastfeeding mothers feed their babies at the poolside" is wrong, IMO. They aren't the same at all. Breastfeeding is a unique situation and it needs to have unique rules and standards that apply, so that it can be protected, promoted and supported. I think that's what a lot of people are having trouble wrapping their heads around.

Well, thanks for assuming. You, however, did not experience my first daughter who would readily take a bottle yet refuse the pacifier. And who are you to say that when I bottle fed my daughter, it was only about food????? The assumptions in your post are flooring me!!!!

Breastfeeding is NOT unique and it should not be treated as such.

Originally Posted by TCMoulton

Just because a child will use a bottle does not mean that they will also accept a pacifier.

Exactly. It's like assuming that all breastfeeding mothers can easily pump.

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by thismama

I agree that the biology involved in nursing makes it different to bottlefeeding. Breastfed babies are nursed more often than bottlefed babies are fed, we know this because we know the ff-based scheduling advice is a sure way to ruin bm supply. Bottlefed babies are also more likely to take a pacifier than bf babies. Plus IME once a breastfed baby sees any part of your boob, you're done for. So it would be much easier for a ff mama to 'schedule' a feeding before the pool, offer a pacifier during, and then feed another bottle after. This IME as a breastfeeder doesn't work out well at all.

We can't fall into the trap of making ff style feeding the prototype upon which to base policy re: all infant feeding. We've played that game a few times now and it doesn't work out well for breastfeeding mamas and babes.

And in certain situations, there's nothing wrong with that.

[pumpkinhead]

I think the way this woman was treated by the owner is deplorable.

I am conflicted. While I do agree that breastfeeding should be appropriate in any place where food and drink are appropriate, in some ways I believe that if bottle feeding and other foods aren't appropriate than breastfeeding shouldn't be either. Breastfeeding isn't a special circumstance, it's the normal circumstance.

On the other hand, breastmilk is unique in that it is a biologically active substance. It would be more immediately broken down in the chlorine than formula or other foods. It could be leaking from a nursing mother's breasts just as pee leaks from swim diapers. (Note, I am not comparing breastmilk to urine, but using urine as an example of a bodily fluid that is "acceptable" in a swimming pool and it protected against with the saline and chlorine content of the pool).

I think that when you enter a public pool, you're taking certian risks. You are going to be exposed to another person's bodliy fluids. This is a given.


So, I really don't know where I stand here. I do know that the way the owner responded was disgusting. Security guards? What a nasty thing to do.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

Well, thanks for assuming. You, however, did not experience my first daughter who would readily take a bottle yet refuse the pacifier. And who are you to say that when I bottle fed my daughter, it was only about food????? The assumptions in your post are flooring me!!!!

Breastfeeding is NOT unique and it should not be treated as such.



Exactly. It's like assuming that all breastfeeding mothers can easily pump.

Can you please clarify what you mean by this sentence?

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

Then what about the bottle feeding mother who argues that she is letting the child suckle for comfort? Should that child not be allowed to eat? Because both the bottle-fed and breastfed child are, in fact, eating, regardless of the emotional benefits. And what about breastmilk in bottles? I EP'd for the first four months of Jordan's life. It was breastmilk. Should that have been allowed, too?

In location A, it's okay to bottle-feed. So breastfeeding should be allowed, too.

That I can get behind.

In location B, it is not okay to bottle-feed. Breastfeeding should still be allowed.

Sorry, this I cannot get behind. And frankly, I think it's this mentality that gives lactivists a bad name.

I disagree in part due to the nature of the difference between formula and breastmilk. For example, breastmilk is considered to be a "clear fluid" by most educated physicians. Therefore, having a baby injest breastmilk before a surgical procedure where food was restricted to clear fluids beforehand would be completely safe and acceptable. Giving a baby a bottle of formula before
woud not be either.

There is a difference between breastmilk and formula and acknowledging this does not give lactivists a bad name.

I do agree in that if it's not appropriate to give a bottle of breastmilk, it shouldn't be appropriate to nurse from the breast in most cases.

[RomanGoddess]

[QUOTE=G8P4;12615956]

To say "you have to let bottle feeding mothers bottle feed their babies at the poolside if you are going to let breastfeeding mothers feed their babies at the poolside" is wrong, IMO. They aren't the same at all. Breastfeeding is a unique situation and it needs to have unique rules and standards that apply, so that it can be protected, promoted and supported. I think that's what a lot of people are having trouble wrapping their heads around.

Right. People use pretty much the same argument to BAN breastfeeding from public places. It's "different" from bottlefeeding. You have to be "discreet" about it. I just don't like where the argument is going at all....

[APmomto3boys]

call me wacky, but I can understand why they would not want nursing in a pool. It makes total sense to me.

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

Can you please clarify what you mean by this sentence?

Breastfeeding should be treated as a normal, everyday occurrence. If a woman can bottlefeed at a certain location, I should be able to nurse there - no questions asked. But if a woman cannot bottlefeed in a certain location, well, I wouldn't want to nurse there anymore than I would want to give my 5 y/o a bag of goldfish crackers.

I understand the desire for nursing mothers to be treated equally...to be able to nurse their babies without anyone looking twice - just like that which would happen with a bottlefed child. What I will never understand is the desire to be "special" in certain circumstances under which even bottlefed babies wouldn't be allowed to feed. When we are excluded, we want to be included. Yes, when we are included - even if the end result is undesirable - well, then we want to be selectively excluded. And if we keep acting as such, breastfeeding will always be stigmatized by the bfing nazis (and I really hate that word) who think that the "rules" don't apply to them.

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

I disagree in part due to the nature of the difference between formula and breastmilk. For example, breastmilk is considered to be a "clear fluid" by most educated physicians. Therefore, having a baby injest breastmilk before a surgical procedure where food was restricted to clear fluids beforehand would be completely safe and acceptable. Giving a baby a bottle of formula before
woud not be either.

There is a difference between breastmilk and formula and acknowledging this does not give lactivists a bad name.

I do agree in that if it's not appropriate to give a bottle of breastmilk, it shouldn't be appropriate to nurse from the breast in most cases.

It's the attitude of some lactivists that gives lactivists a bad name.