Leaky gut - yeast, bacteria, metals, parasites, oh my!

[chlobo]

Ok. I think we all now agree that leaky gut at least contributes, if not causes allergies/intolerances in *some* people. Some of the other players are: yeast overgrowth, bad bacteria overgrowth, heavy metal poisoning, parasites.

So my question for those that have been there, done that is

How do you know which culprit is at the root? How do you know which one to go after? Since there aren't good tests for all of these things how do you figure it out? Is there a treatment protocol that hits all of these problems?

Also, what order should you do healing stuff?

*remove known allergens?
*change diet
*kill pathogens
*reintroduce good bacteria, etc ????

[changingseasons]

:

[tanyalynn]

I'll share our experience, but I'm subbing to learn more--I know I don't know enough.

Our main issue is heavy metals, primarily mercury but my daughter's hair test also came back high in arsenic, and I'm assuming we're all basically the same (we used the hair elements test from Doctor’s Data, ordered through Direct Lab Services). We (my HCP and I) diagnosed me based mainly on case history--timing of onset of allergies, anxiety, later on depression, thyroid and adrenal problems, and the kids were mostly an off-shoot of me not being healthy, with a few red flags like head-banging thrown in (but only for my son, not my daughter, who seems physiologically much more like my husband, though she still has a very high toxic load).

Our allergies/intolerances are minor in the grand scheme of things, just gluten, casein, cashews and chocolate. Those got better in my son with avoidance, a small amount of gut healing stuff (CLO, a fair amount of bone broth for a while, some fermented veggies but not every day) and lots of supps to support detox pathways (the autism biomed approach). I assume that more gut healing stuff would've been appropriate if we'd had more or more severe allergies. My daughter's more prone to yeast and I'm just starting to explore what to do about it, especially since I saw it flare the last round I chelated her and I want to get it under control before doing more rounds.

As a timeline--we started gfcf in June07, and I figured out the cashews and chocolate in fall 07 (I think). In March-ish 08, my son got two separate large gluten exposures and a chocolate exposure, and didn't bang his head on the wall for the gluten (which he had done in fall 07), and got a very, very faint, very delayed rash for the chocolate. I think the healing was mostly due to avoidance and reducing his toxic load. But I won’t add any of those back in til I’m sure we’re done chelating.

Since our gut imbalances seem minor compared to the overall issues, I’ve felt comfortable addressing the detox side first and the gut health second. For people with significant allergies or other signs of gut problems, it seems like working more on those at first would be better. But I don’t really know how much it’s guess-and-check to see what to tackle first, or if some people need to do significant work on multiple fronts simultaneously in order to allow their bodies to start healing.

[Wugmama]

So how in the world would one, especially children, get heavy metal or arsenic toxicity? Is anyone at risk for this, or only if you work in a certain industry or live in a certain area?

Sort of OT, but I am looking into building a metal pole barn with a finished upstairs for us to move into perhaps (I know that SOUNDS pathetic, we are actually in very good shape, have a beautiful large home but are looking into selling it and downsizing to, ahem, save for a rainy day/be able to afford massive amounts of supps and coconut milk yogurt/ice cream). We are looking at a 5 acre lot, where we could have a nice garden. At any rate, now I wonder, can you get heavy metal exposure living in a metal building???

Thanks,
Tracy

[tanyalynn]

Oh, I guess it wasn't obvious. This is all due to my amalgam fillings. My environmental allergies and anxiety started at the same period in my life as when I got my fillings, and it took a few years before my first bout with depression, and it sorta went from there.

My understanding is that arsenic is handled similarly to mercury, and so between not being able to excrete either as well as most folks, as my body was burdened by more and more mercury, its ability to handle the day-to-day arsenic decreased--it's sort of a snowball effect. Relatively high arsenic levels are not uncommon in people with mercury problems. As far as I know, the arsenic was just normal daily living. Some treated woods (to prevent rotting) used arsenic, it's found in low levels in conventional chicken feed (and thus in chicken), I know there are a lot of other low-level exposures that aren't terribly significant for most people but they were for me. I think everything my kids have they got from me.

[LBMarie9]

are your metal fillings gone or still in your mouth? (can you still have problems once they're gone? i had them as a child but they popped out)

[tanyalynn]

I got them replaced with composite in April of this year. They were placed in my pre-teens or early teens, and I'm 33 now, so they had 20 years to make an impact. At this point, just removing them doesn't solve my problems, but for someone who had some for a shorter time period, it's really a different cost/benefit analysis (whether to do extra work to get any remaining metals out, I mean).

ETA: I think I started having symptoms within a relatively short time period because my mom also has amalgam fillings and has the same susceptibility to heavy metals that I do. I think I started with a higher burden than most folks. My mom and I have similar health problems, but mine have all come on earlier in life and more intensely. My grandmother (mom's mom) has some similar health problems (fewer overall) and they were even less intense.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by Wugmama

So how in the world would one, especially children, get heavy metal or arsenic toxicity? Is anyone at risk for this, or only if you work in a certain industry or live in a certain area?

we are all exposed, some more than others, some have other demands that are placed on their bodies and some people have the ability to excrete at a more rapid pace than others. So there is a formula, albeit a hidden one....

If you have low exposure, few other demands and excrete rapidly then you are likely fine.

IF you have high exposure, several other demands and excrete inefficiently then you are going to have issues and there is a spectrum in between.

[Twoplussixis8]

Since there aren't good tests for all of these things how do you figure it out? Is there a treatment protocol that hits all of these problems?

My daughter has CD/GI and I believe she has some additional issue's, we just had testing done at Nutritionally Yours (links below) They offer long distance services. Both GI panel's are easy, Non invasive. Stool and Salvia. They also will give you a comprehensive lab report and a protocol written by the practitioner with suggestions to help you feel better. They also offer hair analysis tests, that can show heavy metal toxicity, mineral deficiencies, nutritional deficiencies and some vitamin deficiencies which have occurred over a long period of time.


http://www.nutritionallyyours.net/long_distance.html

http://www.nutritionallyyours.net/st...roducts_id=202

http://www.nutritionallyyours.net/

[JaneS]

As far as I know these tests are very reliable:

Metals/minerals 'Hair Elements test' recommended by Andrew Cutler from Doctor's Data http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/

The OAT (Organic Acids) urine test for bacteria/yeast from Metametrix or Great Plains. I know less about parasites but would look at those labs or Genova. I think I had DS tested as part of his CDSA (Comprehensive Digestion and Stool Analysis) from Genova.

The new book by Kenneth Bock MD on the 4A Disorders is a good place to start for biomed treatment:

http://www.4ahealing.com/index.html

I think nutrient deficiencies play just as large a role if not more to the ones you list as causes of a leaky gut. They are certainly responsible for detox pathways.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I think nutrient deficiencies play just as large a role if not more to the ones you list as causes of a leaky gut. They are certainly responsible for detox pathways.

But that's the thing. These things sort of spiral in on themselves, right? For some people, a little deficiency here or there will start causing gut damage, which would lead to more than a little deficiency in a lot of things, but for someone else, the effects are mostly on different systems, and the gut is relatively healthy (in the great span of possibilities, I mean). It seems like figuring out which pattern our bodies are following, which are our weaknesses, the things that started breaking first, is really helpful to figuring out what to start tackling first to heal.

I've been inspired and d@mn impressed with the work you've done, and have learned a lot, but my path in many ways is different, even though we're dealing with somewhat overlapping issues. I've found it fascinating. Somehow your body, and your son's, are different than me and my kids.

Finding someone else who seems to follow the same general path of dysfunction can be helpful in figuring out the path to health. I wish there were almost a checklist of symptoms, yk?

[lil_miss_understood]

Bumping and subbing so I can find this later.

[crunchy_mama]

I am interested in this as well- I have a few theories here, but not enough time right now.