checking out relatives palates - Page 5

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by leila1213

So the K2 is instead of the BO? What do you see as the advantage over BO? What do you consider to be hefty doses?

I'm using Thorne's K2 for several reasons: cost (per mg K2), easy to administer (high doses with just 1 drop and a very mild flavor) and (figured this one out after I'd already started) my son gets nosebleeds from even moderate (WAPF) dosages of CLO unless I give him a _lot_ of K2.

I've gone to 2x the WAPF doses for CLO at times, briefly higher, I've wavered around on how high I should go for how long. Based on illnesses when he was a baby, I figured out he was _really_ A deficient (used it to clear up an illness--not good given it's a fat-soluble vitamin). For my daughter I give 2 drops of K2 per day (1 AM, 1 PM) which is 2mg per day, which I'm guessing is plenty for her. My son gets more; the nosebleed thing runs in my family, me, my mom, several aunts and my grandmother, so something is just odd. Someday I will keep reading and figure it out.

It's always interesting how threads overlap... pages 28 and 29 in the My Research: CSS c-section syndrome causing allergies in the Allergies forum is, right now, talking about anterior and posterior tongue ties and how anterior tt (the one in the front under the tongue) is related to the V in the teeth, and both being related to nutritional deficiencies in mom, esp A and folate. And how it can be related to other problems, digestive and otherwise.

[gilamama]

there is an add on my screen for a multi without vitamin K!

[leila1213]

Very interesting! I know I was deficient in folate, as DD has a pilonidal dimple--basically the mildest form of spina bifida type defect. She also has cradle cap, and I have keratosis pilaris, which IIRC might both be linked to vit A. I think I've shared this with you before, but I know I'm deficient in zinc based on prematurely gray hair, and of course I was on hbc for a long time, so...there you go.

Good to know about the K2. I have no idea how I'm going to get DD to start taking CLO again, as she stopped cooperating with it a long time ago. So, I'm glad to hear there is a work-around for the BO at least. I guess my question about it is -- is it WAPF-approved? If not, does that bother you? (I think I may remember you commenting about this on another thread a while back, but just want to make sure.) Thanks!!

[gilamama]

Leila - i have read abt grey hair being reversable with hydrochloric acid supplementation.

tanya - what is do you buy for CLO, since you have looked at it from the $price$ (not Price) perspective?

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by leila1213

Very interesting! I know I was deficient in folate, as DD has a pilonidal dimple--basically the mildest form of spina bifida type defect. She also has cradle cap, and I have keratosis pilaris, which IIRC might both be linked to vit A. I think I've shared this with you before, but I know I'm deficient in zinc based on prematurely gray hair, and of course I was on hbc for a long time, so...there you go.

Good to know about the K2. I have no idea how I'm going to get DD to start taking CLO again, as she stopped cooperating with it a long time ago. So, I'm glad to hear there is a work-around for the BO at least. I guess my question about it is -- is it WAPF-approved? If not, does that bother you? (I think I may remember you commenting about this on another thread a while back, but just want to make sure.) Thanks!!

I've seen cradle cap being related to yeast and biotin. Not sure if that's always the case, but my daughter got cradle cap when she was about a year and a half old and things were really stressful, and just recently (she's almost 5 now) she's been getting yeasty-looking poop with our move and a long vacation and stuff... so I've started wondering if there was a lower-level yeast issue all along, and I only really notice it when it flares.

Is it WAPF-approved? Probably not. I am intensely grateful to Weston Price and to the folks at the WAP Foundation, I wouldn't have twigged to fat-soluble vitamins on my own, nor to the methods of increasing overall nutrition in our food. But I am mostly driven by wanting to get results for my kids. The old thread in the Vaccination archives, the Nutrition/Immunology one, spoke to me in many ways--that I need to look at lots of different nutrients (so far I've just looked at vitamins and minerals, but there's a lot more in food that I am pretty ignorant of, things like specific amino acids) and figure out what _we_ need. I feel like I can see my family degenerating--my grandmother to my mom to me to my kids, and I'm completely willing to supplement to maximize my kids' potential.

I'm sorta ticked at the WAPF for their insistence that everything should be done with food. I mean--so many really unhealthy people end up finding real truth with Price's ideas, but when you get this messed up, it's just not realistic to fix as much as could be fixed (given that many of us are trying to help our kids who are already manifesting problems that took a couple generations to build) in a reasonable timeframe.

That was way the heck more than you wanted, sorry. I'm conflicted because there's so much of value at the WAPF but I think so many underlying messages that are holding people back.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by gilamama

tanya - what is do you buy for CLO, since you have looked at it from the $price$ (not Price) perspective?

At the moment I have lots of bottles of blue ice cinnamon tingle because I bought a case back when things were more stable. Now that our finances are (temporarily, please be temporary!) not looking good, when we need more I'm going to look into twinlabs (and hope some of their flavors are ok to the kids). But I'd skimp on other stuff before this, I think--I think one of the reasons my son is barely getting sick this fall (vs constant illness in the past) is that his vitamin D levels are finally reasonable, so I want both the D and the A. I've never looked into a separate A and D, to see if that could be more economical--I bet it could. I may look into that--and that hadn't occurred to me til now, so thank you.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by gilamama

there is an add on my screen for a multi without vitamin K!

That's hilarious, I'm seeing lots of ads for k-12 schools.

ETA: http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...941070&page=28

This is the thread I mentioned above (just so I don't have to serial post any worse!).

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by leila1213

I think I've shared this with you before, but I know I'm deficient in zinc based on prematurely gray hair, and of course I was on hbc for a long time, so...there you go.

I remember we talked about this, but then didn't you try the oral zinc tally test and it was icky-tasting? Maybe you were in this thread, but a bit ago someone (I think firefaery) mentioned that that doesn't work with some heavy metal toxic people. It worked for me--the zinc sulfate was better than local tapwater, and I really was very zinc deficient (maybe still am, still supplementing). Was it possibly lead-related? Or lead-involved, maybe (with other things)? Heck, maybe you were part of that discussion, I remember it struck me that the zinc deficiency test isn't as fool-proof as I'd thought. Not sure how/where you went with the zinc thing, so thought I'd mention it.

[Panserbjorne]

it goes round and round. Low HCl is also linked to a lack of zinc as you can't produce HCl without adequate zinc stores. It always comes back to the big picture thing. And If the taste test didn't work I am wondering if it isn't metals in general but copper specifically affects that...zinc balances copper but if you are so low that the levels of copper are toxic does that skew the taste test? There needs to be more research on this! Noone seems to know.

[leila1213]

I did do the zinc sulfate and it does taste like really good water at first, then gets a metallic taste. The bottle says a delay indicates deficiency, so that's what I'm going with. I just haven't been that motivated to take it regularly for some reason.

The HCl is interesting. Sounds kind of scary though!

I'm sure we are low in copper as well.

Tanya, I agree with your take on the WAPF-supplementing thing, but somehow I always get talked down from it by my chapter leader. GAPS is her bible, which I haven't gotten through yet. Have you read that?

[gardenmommy]

Tell me more (or linkedy link me please) about the grey hair zinc copper HCl stuff. I am very curious. I first noticed grey hairs when I was (!!) 24 (!!), and feel like it was very premature. I was pregnant with my first baby, newly veg., and feel like maybe somehow it was related to a deficiency during that period. I've gotten a few more, but not very many.

Also, I keep hearing everyone talking about BO, but am wondering if it is really necessary if you eat plenty of raw pastured butter. Is it just the intensity of the the vitamin concentration in BO that makes it worthwhile?

Sorry for all the questions, perhaps I should start a new thread!

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by leila1213

I did do the zinc sulfate and it does taste like really good water at first, then gets a metallic taste. The bottle says a delay indicates deficiency, so that's what I'm going with. I just haven't been that motivated to take it regularly for some reason.

I take pills (in a multi) so I don't have to deal with a weird-tasting liquid. It can be hard to take care of yourself, even when you know it's the way to a better place.

I'm sure we are low in copper as well.
I couldn't tell if FF meant copper deficient or copper toxic, since zinc and copper are antagonistic. I think my balance is off, but I don't think we're copper toxic (which can cause a lot of health problems).

Tanya, I agree with your take on the WAPF-supplementing thing, but somehow I always get talked down from it by my chapter leader. GAPS is her bible, which I haven't gotten through yet. Have you read that?

Our gut issues are mild, all things considered, so I haven't done a lot of reading on stuff like that, GAPS included. But it helps that I only know one person IRL who is serious about WAPF-type stuff. But I don't think we'd be getting better just by dealing with gut stuff or doing this only with food--those are important, and for some people that's most or all of the problem (interesting how the problems that manifest can be so similar and yet the solutions quite different) but I don't think it's ours. I am getting better by getting the metals out (mostly mercury, a fair amount of arsenic, lower amounts of other stuff)--so that's the proof I need. Which is a lot harder to figure out when you haven't started really seeing results yet, definitely.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by gardenmommy

Also, I keep hearing everyone talking about BO, but am wondering if it is really necessary if you eat plenty of raw pastured butter. Is it just the intensity of the the vitamin concentration in BO that makes it worthwhile?

I think that's the only difference (the vitamin concentration, I mean)--BO is raw, and has the nice cofactors that are in butter and the relatively high concentration of K2 that you'd need more pastured butter to get. But we consume no dairy (actually a small amount of ghee is okay, but it's really expensive so it's a treat and not a staple), and we have so many significant deficiencies to deal with anyway that just food won't cut it.

I think supplementing everything under the sun for fairly normal, healthy people isn't necessary, although Price did say that we, as a society, were only getting 10% of the A, D, and K2 that his healthy groups did, so I think extra care there is appropriate. But, I have found at least one thing for us that I don't think we could ever get enough of without supplementation, so I think being open to individual quirks that demand extra of certain nutrients is appropriate.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by leila1213

Tanya, I agree with your take on the WAPF-supplementing thing, but somehow I always get talked down from it by my chapter leader. GAPS is her bible, which I haven't gotten through yet. Have you read that?

I was thinking in the shower about this. If you know you've got a metals problem, IMO, getting the metals out is key. A lot can be accomplished with gut health, but some of us have amounts of various metals in us that our bodies just cannot compensate for. It's really unnatural. And so I'm willing to pop pills for a few years to deal with it, and I don't think it's really incompatible with my desire to learn enough that we don't to visit a conventional doctor for a long, long time (never is unrealistic at this point).

[Panserbjorne]

you can be low in zinc and low in copper, low in zinc and high in copper, OR low in zinc and toxic in copper. I know metals skew the taste test, I'm wondering outloud if it only skews it if you are actually at a borderline toxic range for copper or it other metals are involved. No real answers, just wondering.

Yes, copper and zinc balance each other, but it's possible to not have enough of either, and if your zinc is so low that you are off the chart your copper can be so high that it's off the chart in the other direction. There's just too many variables.

[mombh]

just found this thread

btw very interesting about the nosebleeds....
I had them mildly as a child and some of my brothers had them more frequently...
now 2 of my ds's get nosebleeds...
I definately think it is a "family thing" but Iam going to read up more about too.

btw,I also learned alot from that old thread on nutrition. actually helped me a lot and steered me in the right direction...well worth going back to once in a while.