Is it possible to be allergic to cellulase or amylase (in digestive enzymes)?

[changingseasons]

Ok, I guess anything's possible....

I have come to the conclusion that I am definitely allergic to some component of digestive enzymes.

Quick history: In June, I started taking Kirkman Labs Multi-Enzyme Formula. Took it for 3-4 weeks with no problem, then started getting really sick. Way TMI issues (big D and more) for 2 weeks... finally figured out it was the enzymes, stopped taking them, got better within days. Fast forward a couple months, and I bought some Candex (after all the yeast talk around here got me thinking that maybe I had candida issues). Reacted by the end of the first day that I took them. Took for 2 more days, just to be sure... got very sick. Stopped taking them, immediately better. Some said that I had yeast issues for sure if I was having that reaction, but I wasn't convinced because Candex markets "no die-off reactions" for this product- supposed to be very gentle. Fast forward to October... I started seeing a new ND, she gave me a couple supplements to try- one being Integrative Therapeutics Gastric Complex, another enzyme formula with some other gut healing stuff thrown in. Took them for exactly 2 weeks- started noticing a dry mouth within an hour of taking them for a couple days, then started getting the stomach pains that I had from the other 2 enzyme products. Stopped taking them immediately- no stomach pain since.

Also in June, I had bloodwork done that showed my eosinophil levels more than 6 times the high end of the normal range, which indicates an allergic reaction (or parasites, which my ND and I discussed). I had bloodwork done again this week, and my eos level is now ZERO. Also got a printout from a previous blood test in May, and my eos level was also normal (2%) at that point.

All this leads me to believe that I was in fact having some type of allergic reaction to my enzymes. So what I've narrowed it down to is the cellulase, and here's why (so you guys can check my logic):

The only ingredients that all 3 products share are: cellulase, amylase, and plant cellulose (in the capsule). I already know that the Gastric Complex plant cellulose is from wood fiber and not corn or anything. In looking at the doses of each ingredient, I'm leaning toward it being the cellulase or the amylase.

• Kirkman enzymes - took 3-4 weeks to start reacting -
  • cellulase: 137 CU,
  • amylase: 67,320 MWU (I have no clue how CU and DU and MWU compare as measurements)
• Candex enzymes - took 1 day to start reacting -
  • cellulase: 74,000 CU,
  • amylase: 4,000 DU
• Gastric Complex enzymes - took 2 weeks to start reacting -
  • cellulase: 38 CU,
  • amylase: USP- 21,170 USP, FCC- 15,750 DU

So what do you guys think? I know I am the oddball here and probably the only one ever in the history of the world to be allergic to digestive enzymes.... I did email each company and ask them what each of those ingredients is derived from/grown on, so we'll see what they say. I'm just trying to get a hold on what the hell is going on with my body, and for some reason I feel like this is a piece of the puzzle. Because why on earth would I be reacting to a supplement that supposed to help with allergies?!

I'm hoping that some of our local experts will chime in here. But all non-expert opinions are welcome too!!

[changingseasons]

Still waiting for responses... just don't want this to get lost in the sea of threads, JUST IN CASE anyone has any great thoughts about this.

Integrative Therapeutics is the only one that has responded to my emails so far, and they said that the "cellulase and amylase are derived from a yeast fermentation process in a laboratory setting, they are then purified to remove any traces of yeast". I emailed back to see what the yeast is fed, or if there are any other food/plant products used in the processing.

[chlobo]

I've heard that Dr. Houston is willing to talk to people. Why not give him a call and try to speak to him directly? Or maybe the enzymestuff website person?

[changingseasons]

See- I knew I would get good ideas from the smart mamas here.

I just emailed the enzymestuff people... we'll see what they say. I will try Dr. Houston next, although I will probably wait until I get replies from my other emails first. I would feel weird calling to ask him questions without ever used any of his products.

[chlobo]

How about callling & saying that you've tried these other products & believe you reacted to them & you're thinking of taking his and has he ever heard of someone reacting to enzymes? Just to get the ball rolling.

[mtn.mama]

Yes, I was just coming on to second what Carren has already recommended. Talk to Dr. Houston and take it from there. I don't think you can be allergic to an enzyme... just to the process by which the enzyme is produced.

[changingseasons]

Ok- just emailed Dr. Houston, so we'll see what he says.

Got another email back from Integrative Therapeutics, and it wasn't much help at all.

There is no corn, sugar, yeast, gluten, salt, wheat, soy or dairy in the product. I can also tell you that when we make a product, including the blending of ingredients, all machines used are thoroughly cleaned before another product is made removing any traces of ingredients that may come from the product before.
I was not able to find any information regarding what the yeast are fed during the fermentation process. That may be the proprietary information of our suppliers of the raw materials.

So I emailed back and said that he really couldn't tell me that there was no corn, etc. in the product since he doesn't know what the yeast is fed. :

[xekomaya]

I hope Dr. Houston is helpful. He seems like a really nice and smart guy from what I've seen/heard.

Not that you want to start them again, but have you tried taking the enzymes out of the capsule? I skip the capsule entirely and add them to food. They taste kinda gross in that first bit, but I do it for a combo of dosage & not wanting to possibly react to the cellulose

As far as your suspicion based on how long it took you to react - I'm not sure that is entirely reliable. You can't be certain how much of each product was actually quality, active enzyme, or what else was going on in your system. It probably is one of the common ingredients though. Do any of the products come from the same lab, or common suppliers?

[changingseasons]

I haven't tried them without the capsule... but if it's the capsule bothering me, that would mean that I'm allergic to wood fiber (at least for one of them).

If I ever figure out this mystery, then I have to figure out what I reacted to in the Integrative Therapeutics Adren-Plus too, cause that was a way more severe reaction. Of course it doesn't have any of the same ingredients as their enzymes... (except the capsule)

[xekomaya]

I know its heavily processed, but lots of people are reactive to terpins in wood so its not like its way out there.

[mtn.mama]

Figure out the IT Adren-Plus for me too. The crystal says it isn't safe for me. (Of course I didn't ask it until after I bought it...) Ingredients are : bupleurum, eleuthero, wild yam, licorice and turmeric... plus vegetable polysaccharide capsule, magnesium stearate, and silicon dioxide. IDK. I use eleuthero, licorice and turmeric daily. And there's yam in my tea... so I guess it could be the bupleurum? Its aggravating when you can't figure out WHY something doesn't work for you. Houston's enzymes might be worth a try...

[WildIris]

I know someone on the Delphi Avoiding Corn forum who reacted to every enzyme she tried. She just cannot tolerate them at all. Now IIRC I think at some point she talked directly to Dr. Houston, and he told her something about the way enzymes are made into powdered form that related to corn. I think it was something about them being in liquid form, and then sprayed onto a sticky film of maltodextrin (from corn) to dry, and then they dry into powder form. Don't quote me on any of this, I am going from memory here and might have gotten it wrong! But the gist of what I remember is that he was telling her that technically ALL powdered enzymes have been in contact with corn in this way, and that therefore no maker of enzymes should claim that they are completely corn free... but they do, because only really really really sensitive people will react to them (assuming they are otherwise free of corn).

Like I said, totally going from memory here and I may have misunderstood. What I will do tomorrow is search on the Delphi site and see if I can find the old posts that talked about this.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by xekomaya

I know its heavily processed, but lots of people are reactive to terpins in wood so its not like its way out there.

Interesting.

Originally Posted by mtn.mama

Figure out the IT Adren-Plus for me too. The crystal says it isn't safe for me. (Of course I didn't ask it until after I bought it...) Ingredients are : bupleurum, eleuthero, wild yam, licorice and turmeric... plus vegetable polysaccharide capsule, magnesium stearate, and silicon dioxide. IDK. I use eleuthero, licorice and turmeric daily. And there's yam in my tea... so I guess it could be the bupleurum? Its aggravating when you can't figure out WHY something doesn't work for you. Houston's enzymes might be worth a try...

Also interesting. I wonder what it could be. I reacted BAD to the Adren-Plus. Like in a ball on the floor writhing in pain within an hour of taking it BAD.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by WildIris

I know someone on the Delphi Avoiding Corn forum who reacted to every enzyme she tried. She just cannot tolerate them at all. Now IIRC I think at some point she talked directly to Dr. Houston, and he told her something about the way enzymes are made into powdered form that related to corn. I think it was something about them being in liquid form, and then sprayed onto a sticky film of maltodextrin (from corn) to dry, and then they dry into powder form. Don't quote me on any of this, I am going from memory here and might have gotten it wrong! But the gist of what I remember is that he was telling her that technically ALL powdered enzymes have been in contact with corn in this way, and that therefore no maker of enzymes should claim that they are completely corn free... but they do, because only really really really sensitive people will react to them (assuming they are otherwise free of corn).

Like I said, totally going from memory here and I may have misunderstood. What I will do tomorrow is search on the Delphi site and see if I can find the old posts that talked about this.

I'm sure that's right. Which would still be weird though, because I tested fine for corn, and have never been bothered by it. That's why I'm totally baffled as to what could be affecting me so much!

[JaneS]

If they do not contain papain or bromelain from fruits, I would guess it's an intolerance to aspergillus, the fungus which most all plant enzymes are derived from. I would definately call Houston's and ask if they have knowledge on this. I have Devin's email b/c I went to a talk given by him if you would like me to do it.

[Wugmama]

Are you sure the problems you are having are from an allegic reation? I find that I get a little, um, too regular if I have a digestive enzyme with every meal.

Also, as I posted in another thread, I was having some other problems that correlated with too many digestive enzymes in a day. I was wondering if maybe I have a yeast problem and the enzymes were pushing my yeast to go else where, hence the new symptoms?

Also, what if you had a bacterial overgrowth, how would enzymes affect that? Just totally reaching here...

So sorry for all of your frustrations!

Tracy

[WildIris]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I'm sure that's right. Which would still be weird though, because I tested fine for corn, and have never been bothered by it. That's why I'm totally baffled as to what could be affecting me so much!

Here's the thread I was thinking of: http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/...303.1&search=y

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JaneS

If they do not contain papain or bromelain from fruits, I would guess it's an intolerance to aspergillus, the fungus which most all plant enzymes are derived from. I would definately call Houston's and ask if they have knowledge on this. I have Devin's email b/c I went to a talk given by him if you would like me to do it.

Thanks Jane! That is interesting. Is it possible that my (confirmed) allergy to mold makes me allergic to this fungus? I never thought of that before. But probiotics don't bother me, and they're grown on fungus as well, right? I sent Houston's an email, so I will hopefully hear back soon. This is all very interesting...

Originally Posted by Wugmama

Are you sure the problems you are having are from an allegic reation? I find that I get a little, um, too regular if I have a digestive enzyme with every meal.

Also, as I posted in another thread, I was having some other problems that correlated with too many digestive enzymes in a day. I was wondering if maybe I have a yeast problem and the enzymes were pushing my yeast to go else where, hence the new symptoms?

Also, what if you had a bacterial overgrowth, how would enzymes affect that? Just totally reaching here...

So sorry for all of your frustrations!

Tracy

Yeah, I'm almost positive that it's an allergic reaction, because it starts with pain in my stomach- doesn't even wait until it hits the digestive track to cause symptoms. Plus, the way elevated eos level when I was having the worst reaction points to allergy.

I've done stool tests. Those would show bacterial overgrowth, right?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Thanks Jane! That is interesting. Is it possible that my (confirmed) allergy to mold makes me allergic to this fungus? I never thought of that before. But probiotics don't bother me, and they're grown on fungus as well, right? I sent Houston's an email, so I will hopefully hear back soon. This is all very interesting...



Yeah, I'm almost positive that it's an allergic reaction, because it starts with pain in my stomach- doesn't even wait until it hits the digestive track to cause symptoms. Plus, the way elevated eos level when I was having the worst reaction points to allergy.

I've done stool tests. Those would show bacterial overgrowth, right?

Generally they say the enzymes are purified so much that an allergy is extremely unlikely and that people who are allergic to aspergillus can still take enzymes derived from it... but we are a tribe of "unlikelies" aren't we?

Probiotics are not grown on fungus but a growth medium like whey/milk, potato, chickpea, inulin, agar.

Sometimes stool tests are accurate and sometimes not as I understand it.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Generally they say the enzymes are purified so much that an allergy is extremely unlikely and that people who are allergic to aspergillus can still take enzymes derived from it... but we are a tribe of "unlikelies" aren't we?

Probiotics are not grown on fungus but a growth medium like whey/milk, potato, chickpea, inulin, agar.

Sometimes stool tests are accurate and sometimes not as I understand it.

You got that right (the tribe of unlikelies)!!

So right now, seems like aspergillus is my most likely subject. I can't wait to see what Dr. Houston thinks too. And then I have to figure out what I reacted to in the Adren-Plus, and I don't even know where to start with that one...