vaccnine immunity and 'natural' immunity

[ema-adama]

I saw the Sherri Tenpenny video on the risks and benefits of the individual vaccines.
When she was talking about the HepB vax, she mentioned something about auto immune responses as a result of the high level of Hep B antibodies circulating with nothing to do (I can't remember the term she used right now).

So, my question is, if I have immunity from all the VPD after having had the diseases as a child leaving me with the anti bodies for life, why are *those* antibodies not attacking my body?

[Gitti]

All I know (from reading) is that natural immunity is core immunity that lasts a life time. While vaccine immunity is superficial immunity that needs boosters.

Perhaps core immunity is not stored in the blood at all?

I have also read that people "show" no immunity yet when they were actually infected they did not get sick. And the other way around as well, people with "high immunity" got sick in an outbreak.

Scientist don't understand immunity. No immunologist can tell you exactly what it is, where it is stored, how it works.
Seems that they are finding some answers but every answer causes many more questions.

We are not done with that subject by a long shot. In mean time we'll just keep injecting. Good for business if nothing else.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Gitti

All I know (from reading) is that natural immunity is core immunity that lasts a life time. While vaccine immunity is superficial immunity that needs boosters.

Perhaps core immunity is not stored in the blood at all?

Now I have even more to think about
I had assumed that natural immunity came from the anti bodies as a result of me being ill with a specific disease. And that these antibodies kinda float around in my blood on the alert for the virus or bacteria that they know how to 'attack' (I am always a bit uncomfortable with the military words used to describe the immune system). I am going to have to look into this a bit more I guess.

I have also read that people "show" no immunity yet when they were actually infected they did not get sick. And the other way around as well, people with "high immunity" got sick in an outbreak.

Are you referring to titers?

Scientist don't understand immunity. No immunologist can tell you exactly what it is, where it is stored, how it works.
Seems that they are finding some answers but every answer causes many more questions.

Well, I did not know this. I was pretty sure the immunity was in my blood, but I guess that does not explain life long immunity as there has to be some memory of the antibody to be reproduced (isn't it every 7 years that every cell in the body has been replaced/reproduced at least once?)

We are not done with that subject by a long shot. In mean time we'll just keep injecting. Good for business if nothing else.

I was very excited to hear Sherri talking about these antibodies from the vax going rouge and attacking the body (well, not happy excited, but it gave me a reason to think maybe the medical establishment is getting closer to having some information that might support not vaxing). And after a couple of days I found myself wondering why my 'natural' anti bodies weren't attacking my body..... I guess it might take a while for there to be an answer. Again, all I can say, is thankfully I went with my gut which told me not to rush into vaxing and now my mind is telling me not to vax any time soon - if ever.

[Gitti]

Yes, I was talking about titers.

Here is a good article to peruse -

Do Vaccines disable the Immune System?]

btw, most immunity is stored in the gut as far as I know.

And when you really think about it, why would the body store immunity in the blood. It would not respond until the germ hits the blood and that is never supposed to happen. The bacteria or virus is supposed to be dealt with as soon as it enters the body through skin, saliva, mouth, nose, gut...
I would think that is where the defences are present.

Nature is very frugal. It would be a waste of energy to store it in the blood and take a chance of losing it. I am not Mother Nature but if I were I would not do that.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Yes, I was talking about titers.

Here is a good article to peruse -

Do Vaccines disable the Immune System?]

btw, most immunity is stored in the gut as far as I know.

And when you really think about it, why would the body store immunity in the blood. It would not respond until the germ hits the blood and that is never supposed to happen. The bacteria or virus is supposed to be dealt with as soon as it enters the body through skin, saliva, mouth, nose, gut...
I would think that is where the defences are present.

Nature is very frugal. It would be a waste of energy to store it in the blood and take a chance of losing it. I am not Mother Nature but if I were I would not do that.

Thank you. As I fell asleep last night I was thinking about the immunity being in the gut and that that would have nothing to do with the blood (well, not nothing, but it would explain why the anti bodies are not rushing around in my blood). So your answer makes lots of sense to me.

I am going to get into reading the link you gave me.

Fascinating stuff.

Also, I remembered the term Sherri Tenpenny used "Molecular Mimicry". I think this is partly why I was so sure the antibodies are in the blood and just assumed my naturally produced ones would be as well.

[KayCSmommy]

"Doctors prescribe medicine of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of which they know nothing".

~Voltaire 1694-1778

[geni]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

Now I have even more to think about
I had assumed that natural immunity came from the anti bodies as a result of me being ill with a specific disease. And that these antibodies kinda float around in my blood on the alert for the virus or bacteria that they know how to 'attack' (I am always a bit uncomfortable with the military words used to describe the immune system). I am going to have to look into this a bit more I guess.

The memory function is generally carried out by Memory T cells and Memory B cells. Both pretty much hang around until they run into the pathogen again then multiply like crazy while producing antibodies.

Well, I did not know this. I was pretty sure the immunity was in my blood, but I guess that does not explain life long immunity as there has to be some memory of the antibody to be reproduced (isn't it every 7 years that every cell in the body has been replaced/reproduced at least once?)

Many cells can last longer than 7 years (nerve cells are the classic example). This includes Memory T cells and Memory B cells.

[ema-adama]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...448&highlight=

I found this thread and the post number 12 is phenomenal. Does anyone here know how to get hold of MT's book? Or what it is called?

The immune system has two “sides”. One is Th1, which is the usual response to diseases caught naturally. A healthy immune system has a “bias” towards Th1. Th2 is the “other” side, and people who have allergies, asthma and disease with an autoimmune origin have what is known as a Th2-skewed immune system. (New England J. Med 1992, Vol. 326, No 5, 298-304 was one of the first of many references).

This is just the tiniest snippet from the whole post.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

Does anyone here know how to get hold of MT's book? Or what it is called?

Here. She has a new one out now also.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

I found this thread and the post number 12 is phenomenal. Does anyone here know how to get hold of MT's book? Or what it is called?

Here is her web site -
http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/

[Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Gitti

We are not done with that subject by a long shot.

Gitti, are you trying to be punny?