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post #21 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
There are tests that test for IgG. They are expensive and rarely covered by insurance. I know, because I shelled out $1000 earlier this year for IgG testing for 2 of my kids. They are not completely accurate (each child had 1 false negative -- for instance, DD tested safe for corn, which is the food that she reacts the MOST too -- see my other thread about folliculitis, which turned out to be caused by corn that I was accidently giving her). All the different kinds of doctors that I've been to say that an elimination diet is THE standard to ferret out food intolerances, and they are very difficult and very time consuming. If this mom takes the formula so that they can get to a baseline, and then add foods back into her diet one at a time, then it will actually be more accurate, and almost quicker than doing a regular TED.



She's not saying that she needs a test for blood in the stool. She can see the blood in the stool.
Yep, we've given stool samples to check for blood b/c the pediatrician didn't believe me. They were very positive.

Thanks for the support kjbrown92. We are waiting for our formula to come this week and will start the diet as soon as it comes. I will post updates on how it goes.
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
She's not saying that she needs a test for blood in the stool. She can see the blood in the stool.
Well, but her doctor, that she is saying she needs to stay with right now, is not believing her. So if she did a test, that might help. Plus, they test for "occult blood" which means that they test for blood that may not be visible. This will at least tell you if there is blood in the stool, and how much. This might be helpful information if she is trying to decided what to do about it.

As for the IgG tests, our naturopath wants us to do this fingerprick test that only costs $120. It detects IgG antibodies. I was hesitating, because I have also read that there can be false negs and positives. However, if an elimination diet isn't getting you to baseline, it might just give you a place to start.
post #23 of 38
What test only costs $120? I want it!
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
What test only costs $120? I want it!
The basic food panel ELISA (95 foods) through Meridian Valley Labs is about that much.
post #25 of 38
Even though I understand that some people have difficulties and it really hurts to see your baby suffering, there are WAY more positives to breastmilk then to any formula, even if your child is reacting to foods that you are eating.
With switching to formula you are no longer providing the protective antibodies to fight infection, one being ear infections. You are potentially setting your baby up to need to go onto antibiotics and thus will cause more harm to your LO's system.

Mom's here need to understand that they need to heal themselves first and foremost. They need to get the proper digestive enzymes. If a particular enzyme is not working then they need to find another one. This is a complex issue of health stemming from our digestive systems not functioning properly due to diet, nutrition, antibiotics use, steroid use, etc. The digestive enzyme you're taking may not be strong enough, wrong dosage, wrong enzymes. There are enzymes to digest protein, sugar, starch, gluten, etc. This really is only for a professional to figure out.
There are also Homeopathics that can heal the digestive tract too which is what my DS is currently on.

In order for our children to become healthy we need to get ourselves healthy and that will only result in people going to seek the proper medical treatment from alternative practitioners. Some of which are covered under health insurance, such as Homeopaths with MD credentials.

I know that some people can't afford this. Even seeing a practitioner for a short amount of time to get you some building blocks to get started will be well worth the money spent.
I feel for all the hurting mamas on this issue because my DS struggles with his allergies too. I have told myself that if I don't keep nursing him then he will die. Period. I take the approach with his care as if I was a mama during the era where there was no such thing as formula.
I am lucky because I received alternative healing treatments years ago which set my LO up for not being so sick.

This is all correctable with proper treatment and mamas can keep nursing their LO's.
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9sarchik View Post
Even though I understand that some people have difficulties and it really hurts to see your baby suffering, there are WAY more positives to breastmilk then to any formula, even if your child is reacting to foods that you are eating.
With switching to formula you are no longer providing the protective antibodies to fight infection, one being ear infections. You are potentially setting your baby up to need to go onto antibiotics and thus will cause more harm to your LO's system.

Mom's here need to understand that they need to heal themselves first and foremost. They need to get the proper digestive enzymes. If a particular enzyme is not working then they need to find another one. This is a complex issue of health stemming from our digestive systems not functioning properly due to diet, nutrition, antibiotics use, steroid use, etc. The digestive enzyme you're taking may not be strong enough, wrong dosage, wrong enzymes. There are enzymes to digest protein, sugar, starch, gluten, etc. This really is only for a professional to figure out.
There are also Homeopathics that can heal the digestive tract too which is what my DS is currently on.

In order for our children to become healthy we need to get ourselves healthy and that will only result in people going to seek the proper medical treatment from alternative practitioners. Some of which are covered under health insurance, such as Homeopaths with MD credentials.

I know that some people can't afford this. Even seeing a practitioner for a short amount of time to get you some building blocks to get started will be well worth the money spent.
I feel for all the hurting mamas on this issue because my DS struggles with his allergies too. I have told myself that if I don't keep nursing him then he will die. Period. I take the approach with his care as if I was a mama during the era where there was no such thing as formula.
I am lucky because I received alternative healing treatments years ago which set my LO up for not being so sick.

This is all correctable with proper treatment and mamas can keep nursing their LO's.
While I agree with most of what you're saying, there does come a point where it is healthier (physically OR emotionally) to give a baby formula. I have struggled with this decision for 11 months now, and I have never ended up giving DD formula, although at times I feel like she would have healed much faster if I had.

Digestive enzymes most certainly are NOT a cure-all for allergies. I for one, am allergic to them. There really isn't any cure-all for allergies- what works for one person might not work for another. Everyone's body is different.

I think it is a very hard decision for any mother to make, but you really need to realize that there can be times when BFing is causing more harm than good. I agree that is a really rare scenario, but it's not impossible.

Take for example a mom who simply cannot get enough calories into her diet by eating a restricted diet (for whatever reason- take previous eating disorders as an example suffered by one mom here), and who is on the verge of serious health problems if she continues. So she has a choice- she can either a) intentionally eat foods that she knows her child will react to, causing damage and preventing healing in her baby, or 2) put her babe on formula (even temporarily) until she and babe are healthy enough to BF again.

It really can be argued either way. I have never used formula. I have also lost 120 pounds since DD was born. I have suffered serious PPD because of the stress and diet changes. Was this the right decision? Who knows. It might not have been. But that choice is up to every mother, and she has to do what she FEELS is right for her and her family.
post #27 of 38
Thanks CS

christamom- I really hope you guys can find some healing with this! I think Neocate makes flavor packets, maybe you could try that for yours so you can drink more? I can't believe her stool had blood and they are STILL not taking you seriously!
post #28 of 38
sadly blood in the stool is often seen as normal. They don't get too worked up about it unless it is chronic in some cases.
post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9sarchik View Post
Even though I understand that some people have difficulties and it really hurts to see your baby suffering, there are WAY more positives to breastmilk then to any formula, even if your child is reacting to foods that you are eating.
100% true, however there are some instances in which case it would be harmful for a mama to continue to nurse. It's rare, but it happens.

With switching to formula you are no longer providing the protective antibodies to fight infection, one being ear infections. You are potentially setting your baby up to need to go onto antibiotics and thus will cause more harm to your LO's system.
you will never find a bigger breastfeeding/gut healing advocate than I. HOWEVER there are some conditions that while they create an inflammatory response in mom's gut prevent her from beign able to heal in a timely fashion. A possibility (if mom is the problem and 99% of the time that is the case) is donated milk from someone who DOESN'T have gut issues. Yes, those antibodies are important, but a baseline does need to be established. I wouldn't be hitting formula yet, because the elimination this mom has talked about isn't helpful (sorry mama!) high protein foods need to be out for alot longer than a week to determine if they are an issue. Really it needs to be a minimum of two weeks...and that's not even ideal IMO. Anyway. That was OT.

Mom's here need to understand that they need to heal themselves first and foremost. They need to get the proper digestive enzymes. If a particular enzyme is not working then they need to find another one. This is a complex issue of health stemming from our digestive systems not functioning properly due to diet, nutrition, antibiotics use, steroid use, etc. The digestive enzyme you're taking may not be strong enough, wrong dosage, wrong enzymes. There are enzymes to digest protein, sugar, starch, gluten, etc. This really is only for a professional to figure out.
There are also Homeopathics that can heal the digestive tract too which is what my DS is currently on.
Yes yes yes and yes. Unfortunately we go back to the point that mom does need to heal unless baby has some of the rare conditions I mentioned. And, unfortunately if that can happen fast enough for baby to get out of danger then you arrive at that impasse. And while enzymes are helpful enzymes used in certain conditions can aggravate and create more damage. Again, rare-but celiac disease is one of them. And that is a concern based on the symptoms here. I am all for homeopathy too and that would be a good path to explore.

In order for our children to become healthy we need to get ourselves healthy and that will only result in people going to seek the proper medical treatment from alternative practitioners. Some of which are covered under health insurance, such as Homeopaths with MD credentials.
Sadly most MD's who are also homeopaths don't know squat about nutrition. I agree with everything you are saying but when you hit the danger point things need to happen.

I know that some people can't afford this. Even seeing a practitioner for a short amount of time to get you some building blocks to get started will be well worth the money spent.
I feel for all the hurting mamas on this issue because my DS struggles with his allergies too. I have told myself that if I don't keep nursing him then he will die. Period. I take the approach with his care as if I was a mama during the era where there was no such thing as formula.
I am lucky because I received alternative healing treatments years ago which set my LO up for not being so sick.
I'm with you. Dd likely wouldn't have survived me not nursing her. BUT I was using alternative and complementary medicine long before kids and knew what to do, who to see. We are seeing far more instances of mamas with supply issues and babies who are not tolerating mamas milk. This has alot to do with lifestyle choices, but it also had alot to do with environment. Back in the day there was no formula, but there were less contaminants and less drugs contributing to poor health and getting in the way. Mama healing will likely fix things, but we also need to account for the fact that this *could* have alot to do with things that happened pre-birth. If that's the case it's not as easy as mama fixing her diet.

This is all correctable with proper treatment and mamas can keep nursing their LO's.
again, I'm with you. But what if proper treatment is minor surgery, structural work or something like that? We need to control for all of that. It all starts with diet, but in this instance it may not be that simple. Perhaps it is, as I said I haven't seen elimination of the biggies for long enough to say-but we do need to keep our eyes and minds open to bigger issues. IF baby is having this much of an issue it probably started before breastfeeding-you know?
I really agree with alot of what is said here, but there are several avenues to explore that haven't been-at least not in this thread.
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by christamom View Post

THE TED: I had previously tried a total elimination diet and only ate about 5 foods for about a week, still saw blood, changed the combo, still saw blood...gave up..was starved and ate anything I could find that didn't have dairy or soy. It was a frustrating experience because I don't know if I'm picking the right foods and we just weren't getting good results. My thinking is... if we could just get to base-line. That would be huge for us. No blood. No constipation. Just some relief. I will introduce foods SLOWLY, once we get to baseline and stay there atleast a week on the elemental diet. I'm not looking forward to it at all, but I jut really want it to work!!

Previous posters also mentioned gluten-doesn't seem to be a problem, corn-possibly??,

We have tried probiotics and digestive enzymes, but having trouble finding soy and dairy-free probiotics.

Checked out the Crystal Testing...very intruiging, will try when DD is asleep!!
There are soy and dairy free supplements if you know where to look. However I just wanted to let you know that it may take a week of her NOT beign exposed to an allergen for the blood to disappear. The proteins wil circulate in the case of dairy for up to 6 weeks some say. Gluten is almost as bad. Then it can take the gut *about* a week to heal once the exposure stops depending on the damage.

I would say take the biggies out at least for 4 weeks while using other supportive measures if you want to pursue the breastfeeding.

I'd like to hear more about your history, actually. how was nursing in the beginning? was there yeast/thrush? was it painful or even irritating? how is your supply? Do you have a history of IBS, depression, acne, weight loss or gain, anxiety etc?
post #31 of 38
Hey mama,i just wanted to chime in here and say that we are dealing with the exact same situation.

I stopped BFing at 6 months with pressure from our GI Dr, and went to nutramigen and then shortly there after to neocate. DD is 22 months and we are still having bleeding issues. We have had 2 scopes, and 2 rounds of allergy testing.

As for the actual bleeding, if she is getting constipated alto, then she could have a fissure that is causing her bleeding, which is what i think my dd's issue is.

Also, if it is a food allergy the milk and soy proteins could be causing her colon to get inflamed, so even though you have cut out milk and soy, it can take a month or more to get her to heal. The milk and soy proteins can stay in your system for 3 weeks, and if they do it could take at least a week or so after that for her colon to heal.

Is the blood specks or larger amounts?
post #32 of 38
Thread Starter 
k9- we do eat healthy, take enzymes, and probiotics.

One thing to point out, my hubby, DD's father also had a severe case of reflux (projectile vomiting and losing weight) and green mucousy stools which may have pointed to a food intolerance, but he outgrew it by 12 months old.

mamamoose- The Neocate products come in many different flavors and they do have flavor packets too. Thanks for the suggestion. I actually don't mind the taste. We'll see how it goes. Will probably be starting this on Wednesday.
post #33 of 38
I also wanted to add this link for you aswell about food allergy testing. I have talk to 5 diffrent Drs (2 GIs, 1 allergist, our Geneticist, and our Pedi) about allergy testing and they all say the same thing.......they don't work.

Quote:
Accuracy is impossible to measure for food allergy IgG ELISA/EIA because there is no acceptable gold standard in food allergy testing to measure this against. This leads us to the question of validity of food allergy testing via IgG ELISAs.
http://www.betterhealthusa.com/public/282.cfm
post #34 of 38
I would also encourage you to talk to a wide range of people who have used IgG testing. You may want to find out of the people who did, how helpful it was. I am not saying that you need to, or should. But should you choose to the only lab I suggest for ELISA is Immunolabs which has the response directly following Sheryl Miller's. It is a great lab with a high rate of success and is accepted by many MD's.

I would also encourage you to understand that the vast majority of docs don't believe in IgG mediated allergies. That is going to influence them quite a bit, I'd say. I would guess if you asked real people on this board or were to research a bit you would see how behind the times this info is.

You can see from pps that very often formula doesn't solve the issue. I have seen this personally all too often.
post #35 of 38
Firefaery~ good input

I did think Celiac, in which case gluten avoidance would help solve her problem.

I also thought maybe parasites.

Like I'd stress again. ONLY a professional alternative practitioner can determine any or all of these; allergies, parasites, celiac, digestive healing.
post #36 of 38
I'm a huge lactivist, but even I find myself wondering what to do with Ds. At this time, he seems to be mostly symptom free, but every week or so, we have a reaction to something and I haven't figured out what (it's either cross contam, a hidden ingredient or a new allergen). I nursed my dd through her allergies, and unfortunately, didn't eliminate the bigs ones until she was already a toddler. Her problems may be long standing. She can't tolerate dairy, even after all this time. I haven't reintro'd soy or corn. She reacted to strawberry all last week (because it took me that long to figure it out).

My ds, though, is a new little thing and I fear that I may be doing long-standing damage to him. What's done is done with dd and we're doing all the healing we can. But I was diligent about healing while I was pg with ds and he still has these problems. My body sucks and I hate the thought that I could be doing unseen damage to him. I go back and forth about giving formula. The thought is SO foreign to me. I would never have imagined to find myself here. And it's not that I'm wanting to start tomorrow but I do find myself thinking about weaning him early (around a year or 18 mths) and giving him neocate as a milk sub.

If only allergies and leaky gut were more understood. Then, I would know a bit better what is going on. As it is, every week a new study comes out and who knows what the truth is.

Sorry for the ramble. OP,

Quote:
Originally Posted by k9sarchik View Post
Even though I understand that some people have difficulties and it really hurts to see your baby suffering, there are WAY more positives to breastmilk then to any formula, even if your child is reacting to foods that you are eating.
With switching to formula you are no longer providing the protective antibodies to fight infection, one being ear infections. You are potentially setting your baby up to need to go onto antibiotics and thus will cause more harm to your LO's system.

Mom's here need to understand that they need to heal themselves first and foremost. They need to get the proper digestive enzymes. If a particular enzyme is not working then they need to find another one. This is a complex issue of health stemming from our digestive systems not functioning properly due to diet, nutrition, antibiotics use, steroid use, etc. The digestive enzyme you're taking may not be strong enough, wrong dosage, wrong enzymes. There are enzymes to digest protein, sugar, starch, gluten, etc. This really is only for a professional to figure out.
There are also Homeopathics that can heal the digestive tract too which is what my DS is currently on.

In order for our children to become healthy we need to get ourselves healthy and that will only result in people going to seek the proper medical treatment from alternative practitioners. Some of which are covered under health insurance, such as Homeopaths with MD credentials.

I know that some people can't afford this. Even seeing a practitioner for a short amount of time to get you some building blocks to get started will be well worth the money spent.
I feel for all the hurting mamas on this issue because my DS struggles with his allergies too. I have told myself that if I don't keep nursing him then he will die. Period. I take the approach with his care as if I was a mama during the era where there was no such thing as formula.
I am lucky because I received alternative healing treatments years ago which set my LO up for not being so sick.

This is all correctable with proper treatment and mamas can keep nursing their LO's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
While I agree with most of what you're saying, there does come a point where it is healthier (physically OR emotionally) to give a baby formula. I have struggled with this decision for 11 months now, and I have never ended up giving DD formula, although at times I feel like she would have healed much faster if I had.

Digestive enzymes most certainly are NOT a cure-all for allergies. I for one, am allergic to them. There really isn't any cure-all for allergies- what works for one person might not work for another. Everyone's body is different.

I think it is a very hard decision for any mother to make, but you really need to realize that there can be times when BFing is causing more harm than good. I agree that is a really rare scenario, but it's not impossible.

Take for example a mom who simply cannot get enough calories into her diet by eating a restricted diet (for whatever reason- take previous eating disorders as an example suffered by one mom here), and who is on the verge of serious health problems if she continues. So she has a choice- she can either a) intentionally eat foods that she knows her child will react to, causing damage and preventing healing in her baby, or 2) put her babe on formula (even temporarily) until she and babe are healthy enough to BF again.

It really can be argued either way. I have never used formula. I have also lost 120 pounds since DD was born. I have suffered serious PPD because of the stress and diet changes. Was this the right decision? Who knows. It might not have been. But that choice is up to every mother, and she has to do what she FEELS is right for her and her family.
post #37 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
There are soy and dairy free supplements if you know where to look. However I just wanted to let you know that it may take a week of her NOT beign exposed to an allergen for the blood to disappear. The proteins wil circulate in the case of dairy for up to 6 weeks some say. Gluten is almost as bad. Then it can take the gut *about* a week to heal once the exposure stops depending on the damage. You are right. We probably didn't wait long enough. We have been off of dairy and soy now for months.

I would say take the biggies out at least for 4 weeks while using other supportive measures if you want to pursue the breastfeeding.

I'd like to hear more about your history, actually. how was nursing in the beginning? was there yeast/thrush? was it painful or even irritating? how is your supply? Do you have a history of IBS, depression, acne, weight loss or gain, anxiety etc?Nursing went well from the beginning. She always nursed ALOT. DD started getting nice and plump right away. It wasn't until about 2 months that we started noticing blood in the stool. Wasn't until about 6 months when her growth came to a stop. Nursing was painful for a couple days after birth and then fine. Used lanolin a lot. Never have had thrush. I always felt I had an oversupply. She seemed to only be comforted by nursing and nursed all day. I pumped/donated some breastmilk the first 6 months b/c I would get engorged frequently. I have no history of IBS, some history of depression and adult acne. I weigh 107 right now and am 5 foot 4 inches. I gained 40 lbs. when I was pregnant and lost it within 6 months.
If you have any other insight or need other information, LMK! Thanks
post #38 of 38
I do. I'm going to pm you, but if I don't feel free to bug me. I'm swamped.
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