PreK Foreign Language Immersion

[AndrewsMother]

I am not interested in discussing the merits of preK education. I am a full time student and unable to spend the entire day with my son so he must attend preschool. Daycare is not an option.

We are in the process of applying to two schools for the 2009-2010 school year. One school is AMI Montessori and the other is a Foreign Language Immersion Program.

Every other day is spent with the Foreign language teacher and the other days are spent with the English speaking teacher. A child who enters the program at the age of 3 is able to converse in their instructed language by the time the child enters the first grade.

I would like to know the pros and cons of foreign language immersion programs geared towards preschool aged children. This is an established school with an IB diploma program and graduates who attend higher ranking colleges and universities.

Has anyone else enrolled their 3 or 4 year old in a foreign language immersion program?

[pigpokey]

I have not but I am not aware of any downsides. There would be a temporary deceleration in vocabulary acquisition in the native tongue that is of no particular consequence, unless you're doing competitive IQ testing. I would think you would increase the chance that your child would move abroad as an adult. If you don't know the second language, they may be able to put more over on you with their cohorts in a few years. I'm just pulling stuff out of my arse now. It's a good gift to give a child, to let them learn another language in these years.

[AndrewsMother]

Thanks for your response. If DS is accepted to this school and we like it we would not have to endure competitive IQ tests unless we do not like the school. I am not too concerned with a a deceleration in vocabulary. Just this week he was placed in a PK3 class because he is ahead of the ES2 and the ES3 (ES=Early Start) children.

I am aware that children who are raised bilingual do have fewer words in their vocabulary pertaining to each individual language than a child who only speaks one tongue.

I am sure that DS will probably talk about me in Spanish or French in a few years if he is accepted, but hopefully nothing sinister....

DH is adamant that he learn Spanish, but there are fewer slots int he Spanish program. Even if we chose French a 3 language is added during the 6th grade year.

[rahans]

I don't know the pros and cons in regards to preschool but I can tell you that if I had this option for my DC, I would send them to a foreign immersion preschool. I speak French and German and think the earlier they are exposed to a foreign language, the better. I think it is a great idea.

[lisahasfun]

one of the very important things to look at a foreign language school is if the teacher has good pronunciation, if they don't, that will be a very bad influence on the kid at that young age.

[Mizelenius]

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

I am aware that children who are raised bilingual do have fewer words in their vocabulary pertaining to each individual language than a child who only speaks one tongue.

Nope, not true. Even the idea that speaking will be delayed has, from what I've read, proven to be false.

I think I would go and observe the classroom. What I'd want to see is evidence of comprehensible input.

Personally, I think Spanish is a much more useful language if you are living in the US-- because it is common, it means more opportunities to make the language meaningful and for practice, which means you'll have a better chance to have a successful language learner.

And don't worry. My mom, sister, and I are all fluent in Spanish. My dad was not. We never used Spanish to talk negatively about him!

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by rahans

I don't know the pros and cons in regards to preschool but I can tell you that if I had this option for my DC, I would send them to a foreign immersion preschool. I speak French and German and think the earlier they are exposed to a foreign language, the better. I think it is a great idea.

Thank you for your response. Dh and I both feel this way, I hope and pray that DH is accepted.

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by lisahasfun

one of the very important things to look at a foreign language school is if the teacher has good pronunciation, if they don't, that will be a very bad influence on the kid at that young age.

I will definitely keep this in mind!

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by Mizelenius

Nope, not true. Even the idea that speaking will be delayed has, from what I've read, proven to be false.

I think I would go and observe the classroom. What I'd want to see is evidence of comprehensible input.

Personally, I think Spanish is a much more useful language if you are living in the US-- because it is common, it means more opportunities to make the language meaningful and for practice, which means you'll have a better chance to have a successful language learner.

And don't worry. My mom, sister, and I are all fluent in Spanish. My dad was not. We never used Spanish to talk negatively about him!

Thanks for responding. I will check out the site you posted.
While we will choose Spanish as our first choice I would rather he earn French if the choice is French or denied admission. There are only 11 spots in the Spanish Program and 22 spots in the French program. While Spanish is the 2nd most spoken language in Houston, French speakers are plentiful.

A second foreign language is added in 3rd grade and a third language is added in the 6th grade. DS would have to learn Spanish (a parental requirement) and possibly Arabic.

[MomAndOliver]

My 3-year-old is in a Spanish immersion preschool (all Spanish, all the time) five days a week (half-days last year, full days this year - I work full time). He loves it and seems to have learned a lot. He realized pretty early that my husband and I don't speak Spanish, which is finds highly amusing. He can occasionally be a bit patronizing when he has to explain something to me, but being condescended to by one's 3-year-old is pretty funny, in my opinion.

[amma_mama]

We are living overseas so my DD is in a "local" Arabic-speaking preschool (with lessons in both English and Arabic). She started at 3 and is now 4. It is a little bit different because the kids around her speak Arabic already so it is not just the teacher (so even deeper immersion). Within one year, she became relatively fluent in speech and is now learning to write it a bit. It has been amazing to watch her soak up the second language like a sponge. And it has not slowed down her English speaking skills at all. She happily switches back and forth between the two languages. Once in a while I have to remind her that we do not understand Arabic when she peppers her speach with different words and now translates some words for us. Last night I even caught her mumbling in Arabic in her sleep! We are hoping that once we move back to the States, we will be able to find some way for her to keep up the Arabic language as it would be a shame if she forgot it all...

[Justmee]

We have a simmilar experiance as Amma Mama. We speak English at home and the girls go to preschool in Hebrew. My twins have langauage delays and they both picked up pretty fluent Hebrew within 3 or 4 months. Rivka just started preschool this year (she's 3) and she's aleady understands everything and speaks pretty well. She has been understanding everything for at least a month or so. I say go for it !

[Justmee]

Oh, and I know Spanish is much more useful in TX, but there is plenty of need for French! I think most Europeans learn English & French before Spanish. In a global economy, I don't think he'll lose by speaking either language. It might not be as practical for your small geographic area, but there are many many French speakers in the world!!

[AndrewsMother]

Thank you for the responses. I do hope that DS is accepted. You mamma's living abroad are quite fortunate to be able to provide your children with the experience.

[mojumi]

Not sure how relevant it is to your decision, but I was in a bilingual education program for 5 years (k-4) and I loved it. I never found it troublesome to balance my native and second language, and developed a life-long love for language and expression. I've also found it easier to pick up additional languages than I might have otherwise. My only caution might be that there can be a cultural difference in (non-American) instructors' attitudes about how young children should behave in class. Just something to keep an eye on.

[fadedgirl]

There is quite a bit of evidence to support that children immersed in other languages before the age of 7 learn the other language(s) **natively**. It actually changes the structure of their brain's development and will make all sorts of mental processes easier for their entire lives. They do not need to translate the 2nd (or 3rd) language from their native language as you or I would, they learn it just like they learned and are learning English...just by being around it. I've read several books that touch on this subject ("Your Child's Growing Mind" by Jane M. Healy, PhD., "Einstein Never Used Flash Cards" by Kathy Hirsh-Pasek PhD & Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, PhD to name just a few!) but most of what I've just said came from a book entitled "Magic Trees of the Mind" by Marian Diamond, PhD & Janet Hopson. I highly recommend this book for anyone interested in the nitty gritty of learning and brain development.

Either way, I'd love to know where you are located. I looked high and low and finally gave up on finding an immersion preschool or kindy program for our daughter here in San Diego and in a Chicago suburb area. You have ~~ no idea ~~ how much this killed me. If anyone knows of any in San Diego that I may have missed, please post of PM me!!

Also, what languages do you have to choose from? You may want to consider choosing the most difficult language that you will be able to continue his involvement in. Spanish, French, Italian and the like are considered more simple languages. More complex languages like Mandarin, Farsi, Arabic, etc. would give your child an incredible leg up, not to mention the improved brain development implications (that the book describes in detail). And if you look, you might be surprised to find language groups, centers and classes for these more difficult languages that your son could continue involvement in throughout his school years to keep up on the language.

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by fadedgirl

There is quite a bit of evidence to support that children immersed in other languages before the age of 7 learn the other language(s) **natively**. It actually changes the structure of their brain's development and will make all sorts of mental processes easier for their entire lives. They do not need to translate the 2nd (or 3rd) language from their native language as you or I would, they learn it just like they learned and are learning English...just by being around it. I've read several books that touch on this subject ("Your Child's Growing Mind" by Jane M. Healy, PhD., "Einstein Never Used Flash Cards" by Kathy Hirsh-Pasek PhD & Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, PhD to name just a few!) but most of what I've just said came from a book entitled "Magic Trees of the Mind" by Marian Diamond, PhD & Janet Hopson. I highly recommend this book for anyone interested in the nitty gritty of learning and brain development.

Either way, I'd love to know where you are located. I looked high and low and finally gave up on finding an immersion preschool or kindy program for our daughter here in San Diego and in a Chicago suburb area. You have ~~ no idea ~~ how much this killed me. If anyone knows of any in San Diego that I may have missed, please post of PM me!!

Also, what languages do you have to choose from? You may want to consider choosing the most difficult language that you will be able to continue his involvement in. Spanish, French, Italian and the like are considered more simple languages. More complex languages like Mandarin, Farsi, Arabic, etc. would give your child an incredible leg up, not to mention the improved brain development implications (that the book describes in detail). And if you look, you might be surprised to find language groups, centers and classes for these more difficult languages that your son could continue involvement in throughout his school years to keep up on the language.

Thanks for the information. I am pming you the link to the school, perhaps they might know of a similar program near you.

[MattBronsil]

Both sound like fantastic schools. It's interesting because I first cringed when I saw this question thinking, "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!" The reason for that is I live in Taiwan and foreign language "education" is quite different here. Notice I put "education" in quotation marks.

At the same time, I am working hard to change at least some of those problems and see benefits to what you're talking about. A key thing is to make sure the child's needs are met and language acquisition does not become primary over the child's needs. That's generally what happens in most pre-k and k schools I have seen in Taiwan, so my cringe and my bias comes from that. (Yes...I did find schools where that is not the case).

Matt

[RomanGoddess]

Well, my DD is trilingual as a result of foreign language immersion so I am certainly not against it. However, I would not enroll in any immersion program in which the foreign language teachers were not native speakers. That the teacher speaks the language "fluently" is not enough, as even fluent speakers do not use proper sentence patterns and have a foreign accent when they speak. If they are native speakers, then go for it!

I love AMI Montessori, too! You can't really go wrong either way.

[fadedgirl]

I should have said that in San Diego we do have a German Coop Preschool, and a charter public school named Albert Einstein that is German Immersion beginning in kindergarten and then they start Spanish instruction as well in 2nd or 3rd. I have heard great things about Albert Einstein.

There is also a French American School here, while I do not know anyone that has had direct experience with it, we ruled it out as an option fairly early on.

I also agree with ROMANGODDESS: that having native speakers as teachers is of vital importance.