Not sure what I do next

[springmum]

Sorry it's a wee bit long, could use another set of eyes on our week...

Quick background
6 month old EBF DS
no: dairy, caffeine, wheat, corn, cinnamon (we avoid soy and gluten even though no intolerance noted when we did the NAET testing)

There is something I'm missing and I can't figure it out.

Tues DS had a transitional (I think) poo (no mucous, but didn't smell pleasant)
Wed & Thurs this week we had 2 really good days (creamy poos, decent sleep, eczema noticeably healing)
Then today he had 2 poo's (1st with what I though were hints of mucous, 2nd definite mucous)

So I look back in the food journal to Tues & Wed (the days before the definite good days) here is the foods...
bolded foods are everyday foods

-quinoa - millet grits
-almond milk - spaghetti squash
-banana - beets
-chicken (with sage) - bone broth
-carrot - avacado
-apple - olive oil & sea salt

I also stopped giving him his Kirkman probiotic on Tues (he did have 1/2 a cap Mon)

The only things I ate different from the list above Thurs and today (I have similar meals 2 days in a row b/c I make enough for leftovers) are

lamb
butternut squash
spinach
brown basmati rice

If I look back to Mon before the transitional poo I see (as well as the bolded foods above)

brown rice pasta
butternut squash
zucchini
veal
(and he got his probiotics)

So I notice the rice pasta before an almost good poo, then brwn rice before a bad poo
Butt squash is before the almost good and bad poo

He's had zero fussy nursing all week (yay!) and his eczema still appears to be healing.

I'm guessing I should eat what I did Tues & Wed again, but then what do I try to add in/leave out?
I'm also thinking I should leave out the probiotic in case that is a factor?

I know you're all busy with your own reactions/healing, thanks for taking the time!

[waluso]

What about spinach? I think that is a common trigger. I think (although not positive) that my DD reacts to spinach.

[mtn.mama]

Well, it looks to me like butternut squash and or rice might be something to check out, since you had them before the transitional poop and again before the mucous poops? If its the rice, some kids are more sensitive to whole foods (brown rice) than processed foods (rice pasta). Also, it takes more than one exposure for reactions to build... Or its possible to sensitize to an everyday food. We definitely have to rotate foods for this reason.

[springmum]

Hmm... okay so I will take out the whole grain rice, butternut squash and spinach...keep the rice pasta (and eat similar to what I ate on the good days) and see what happens in the next few days.

I'm going to keep out his probiotics too.

I really wish I could rotate the foods better, but all those foods listed are really the only foods I eat right now, and I'm having a really hard time rotating.
I make sure that I don't eat the same grains, most meats and veggies for more than 2 days in a row (there are some things that are daily b/c it requires little prep time and is easy to grab)
When we aren't even at baseline and it's hard to bring in a new food to rotate b/c I can never know what the reaction is from (as I'm sure many of you know)
Never mind the fact that I am actually afraid to try new foods, b/c I hate watching him have a reaction. I know I have to get over this fear (especially since he's reacting anyway)

Okay, thank you for your help - we'll see what the overnight brings....hopefully an okay sleep.....

[kjbrown92]

Any improvement?

[springmum]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Any improvement?

Hey - thank you for asking. I was just waiting for poop report to find out (since he didn't poop yesterday)

Sat - he still had bad mucousy poop, but I was prepared for that. Eczema didn't flare, and he wasn't in pain when he nursed so that was good (he didn't cry out in his sleep, but he's not a "good" sleeper, so it's hard to comment on that.)

Sun - no poop, no change otherwise from sat

Today - poop I *think* is transitional - more substance than mucous, and funky smelling (for us the smell always seems to be the last thing to go) eczema is still almost healed (although he had a bath this am, so that will irritate it) No pain while nursing (this is a biggy)


So here seems to be my personal TED food list (based on reactions)

quinoa
almond milk
banana
avacado
apple
carrot
chicken (with sage) (also bone broth)
lamb, veal, pork
millet grits (can't find GF millet)
spaghetti squash
beets
eggs
olive oil
sea salt

I guess I'll have to stick pretty close to this for the next few days and see if the healing continues.
I really want/need more food though - this is really taking it's toll on me.

My plan if all goes well, is to add sweet potato in, and then go from there...

I welcome any comments.

[kjbrown92]

you have some highly allergenic food in there (banana, egg, almonds) but if he's at baseline, then GREAT! What do you want to add next -- protein, fat, vegetable, or fruit? I'd go with the same families that you're okay with (if it were me). As in since you can have carrot, I'd try other members of the parsley family: celery, fennel, cumin, dill, parsley or parsnips. Or if you're okay with spaghetti squash, try other members of the gourd family: other squash, watermelon, cucumber, cantaloupe, honeydew melon, pumpkin. If you can do beets, have you tried beet sugar? Have you tried rice? Rice gives you rice cakes, cream of rice, rice noodles, rice flour, etc. It's a versatile food and a good filler, but not that great nutrient wise.

[springmum]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

you have some highly allergenic food in there (banana, egg, almonds) but if he's at baseline, then GREAT! What do you want to add next -- protein, fat, vegetable, or fruit? I'd go with the same families that you're okay with (if it were me). As in since you can have carrot, I'd try other members of the parsley family: celery, fennel, cumin, dill, parsley or parsnips. Or if you're okay with spaghetti squash, try other members of the gourd family: other squash, watermelon, cucumber, cantaloupe, honeydew melon, pumpkin. If you can do beets, have you tried beet sugar? Have you tried rice? Rice gives you rice cakes, cream of rice, rice noodles, rice flour, etc. It's a versatile food and a good filler, but not that great nutrient wise.

Ya, I wouldn't have kept in the banana, almond milk, and egg, but we've had good days when I've eaten those, and bad days even when I've taken them out - so for now they're in.

Going with the same food families makes sense - I didn't really think of that.

Since I need something with a little more substance maybe I will go with the sweet potatoes (are they considered a squash?)

The last reaction was *I think* in response to the spinach or rice - so for now rice is out.

I'm going to wait to see what tomorrow's poop is like, just to be sure I can even add anything more right now. (sending my little guy good poop vibes... ha ha)

Thanks for the input - it was very helpful!

[kjbrown92]

Are you looking for trends and all that? Foods that you ingest can take a few hours to get into your breastmilk and a few days to get out. So you can't start and stop things on a dime, so to speak. Sweet potato is in the Morning Glory family (with yam and jicama) but it is usually one of the foods on a TED.

[springmum]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

Are you looking for trends and all that? Foods that you ingest can take a few hours to get into your breastmilk and a few days to get out. So you can't start and stop things on a dime, so to speak. Sweet potato is in the Morning Glory family (with yam and jicama) but it is usually one of the foods on a TED.

Ya, I've been looking for trends, but some things give a clear reaction, other things are still a mystery.

Like today.....nothing like waking to change a mucousy diaper....I almost cried......


I don't understand, I ate the EXACT same things that gave us the PERFECT days last week.....(banana and almond milk also showed okay when we did the NAET testing with out naturopath, and I didn't eat eggs on those days or for the last few days anyway)

Could it still just be left over inflammation from that last reaction? (fri/sat were the bad days)

How could we be at baseline with those foods last week, and then get mucous today? Did I sensitize him to something new....what the heck do I do now?

I don't get it... maybe back to the ND to see if she can help, b/c I'm losing my mind, dropping weight very quickly and it's having an effect on my relationship with DH..... today is one of those days....

[kjbrown92]

I guess what I'm saying about trends is that it takes the time to go through your system and into theirs. So you eat something and you're okay that night, so you think that food is okay, and then you try something else the next day, and they don't sleep that night. Which food is it. For my kids (and everyone is different) it is a full 24 hours before they react to a food, and then they react for 3-7 days after that. So you have to look at the previous few days food, not just the previous DAY food to get your clues. I'm not saying it's easy. I had reams of paper in my food journal binder!! And I'd say oh she was good here, and here, and I ate this and that, but when we ate it two weeks before, she wasn't. So where's the difference?

My naturopath said gluten was fine for me, but when I removed it, my back pain went away, so none of it's foolproof (well the elimination is but it's certainly not easy).

[springmum]

Ya no kidding it's hard.
I guess I'm really not good at figuring out the trends yet (as today obviously shows!) I thought we were at 24 hr reaction time (and in some cases that is very clear) but then there are these mystery reactions that I can't figure out what the timeline is (since they don't seem to be what I ate 24 hrs ago)

Also his reactions are all over the place. Sometimes his eczema flares, gets mucousy poos, has horrible sleep, and pain when he nurses, all together. Then sometimes he just gets one of the above.

So today he's had 2 more poos, full of mucous, and the smell has changed from funky to yeasty....he has the allergy bum rash, but the eczema hasn't flared, his sleep wasn't anything too different, and he's nursing okay. He has had very forceful gas though.

How the heck did you guys figure this out - I feel like I have absolutely no idea what else he's reacting to (aside from what the NAET testing showed).

I go over my food journal again and again, I've tried to rotate things, and it's just not clear to me - as you can tell I'm very frustrated today!

Well, I guess my plan is out the window, and it's back to the food journal to look at the 48 hour window, maybe something will pop out at me.

Thanks again!
Sorry for the venting - had to get it out...

[kjbrown92]

It's just that they don't usually react after 24 hours, then stop reacting. They have to then get it out of their system, which takes a few days. My DD had a lot of foods and they were different reactions: corn gave her eczema and screamed all night long, dairy gave her diarrhea and screamed all night long, and everything else just made her scream all night long.

Personally, I did the elimination diet from Doris Rapp's Is This Your Child for my DD. We didn't get to baseline on the foods that she said to take out, so we kept eliminating until we got to baseline, and then tested each food going back in (it took months). After 2 years, I was still scared to add any more foods, so then I got ALCAT tests done for DS and DD (8yo and 3.5yo respectively) and that showed more, but even that had some false negatives. They've now been on that rotation diet for almost 6 months.

Some people do find a rotation diet easier in terms of figuring things out, depends how the person flares. My kids always reacted for at least 3 days, so it wouldn't have worked for us. Though when we first started doing the rotation diet with the "safe" foods from ALCAT, DS was crying all day one day, and I just chalked it up to moodiness. Then he did the same thing again 4 days later. I looked back and realized that he was eating a lot of one of the mildly intolerant foods and it was too much for him. So I took it back out, and the crying episodes went away. So sometimes if it's only 1 trigger, then the rotation will work. And we do the rotation with the safe foods, to keep them from getting sensitized to new foods.

[springmum]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

It's just that they don't usually react after 24 hours, then stop reacting. They have to then get it out of their system, which takes a few days. My DD had a lot of foods and they were different reactions: corn gave her eczema and screamed all night long, dairy gave her diarrhea and screamed all night long, and everything else just made her scream all night long.

You know, maybe I'm being too impatient with the reaction times. Maybe it's taking longer to get out than I'm thinking.

Thanks for your insight, it's given me a lot to think about.
Hopefully the ND will also have some insight tomorrow.

on we go....

[kjbrown92]

When I was nursing, the reaction was exactly 24 hours after I ingested the food, then for the next 3 days (72 hours), which means 4 days after ingesting, it was clear. On direct ingestion with my kids, one of the kid reacts that night and the following 2 nights. The other one, it depends on the food. With soy, he reacts within an hour, and reacts for a week. With milk, he reacts 24 hours after, and the following 3 nights. I wish it was more scientific and everyone reacted the same, but no such luck.

[springmum]

It really does make it hard to know if he is still reacting to original food that was bad for 3-4 days, or if I'm eating something new in those days to make it worse.

How long did it take you to figure out the reaction time?
How did you know it wasn't a reaction to the foods you were eating after the original reaction?

Last night was a bad night, and he woke up this morning and a poop full of mucous was the first thing he did (it even had a greenish hue, and chunks of thick mucous...ugh)

I'm guessing that if he was still reacting to the food from the original reaction thing would be getting better not worse as the days went on, so maybe it was the sweet potatoes I ate last night (I have no idea what to eat anymore and was starving)

I've made a list of the foods that were 24hrs and 48 hrs before a good reaction and a bad reaction. The problem is we've only had 2 good poop days in months (so that list is pretty short)
The list isn't really helping me though, since it's not clear how long he reacts for. Maybe I need to stop analyzing the poop and just go on his night time sleep or something (although he rarely sleeps longer than the odd 3 hr stretch anyway...) oh my....

Our ND appt is today - I'm hoping it's helpful...

[kjbrown92]

What are you tracking on your food journal? For me I listed every food and every drink (and medications/supplements, if you're taking any) and EVERY symptom (sleep, poop, eczema, fussiness, etc.). We had her on an elimination diet (her, not me, because she was weaned at the time I got a clue that food was causing her issues) -- I can give you the list of foods we started with. And then I kept removing foods until all her symptoms were gone. Then I rechecked every food. It took several months. Some people actually find the TED easier, because it's the same foods for a week. If there's no change, switch out the foods until you have a combination that brings you to baseline, then start adding back foods (1 every 4-7 days).