RH negative

[Velveteen]

Is there some links or information that you might be able to help me out with RH vaccine? I am RH negative, and all this vax info I am taking in has me thinking about this too.
Anyone opted to NOT do this vaccine during pregnancy? (not that I am pg yet)

I have been doing this reading that states that RH negative moms are more likely to have autistic children. This scares the heck out of me. I would rather skip all vax's than take a chance like that. Do you think the RH negative is the problem, or the vax against it? Does this make sense?

[gilnikche]

Well, here is a place to start looking. I put in the keyword "rhogam" in the search feature & here is what came up:

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sea...der=descending

[turquoise]

I'm RH- and so is DH so I don't need the shot. I've had to remind the dr countless times of that fact but they still insist on bringing up the silly shot. (Sometimes they'll even say some rubbish about "what if the baby's father is not your dh and your too scared to say something" bunch o' jerks - how rude.) I vaguely remember reading about the shot though and here's what little I remeber (i.e. take my info for what it's worth, but you'll still want to look it up yourself (sorry)

First thing I remember is that you take this shot because if you are pg with a RH+ baby and some of the baby's blood gets into your system your body will develop antibodies to the RH+ baby blood. This does not usually pose a problem to the first baby because the baby's blood does not usually enter mom's system until birth, if at all. But if you become pg again after being sensitized, your blood could cross the placenta and attack the second baby's blood.

This can cause anemia, and jaundice, and a few other things. There are treatments for this like intra-uterin transfusions, but it's better to try and prevent it.

The problem that I read was that the shot itself is antibodies to rh+ blood. So in essence, you are being injected with the same antibodies you are trying to prevent your body from creating. The benefit is that your body does not produce antibodies, the risk is that you've been injected with the antibodies anyway and they can attack the baby's blood just as well as yours can. Theory is that the injected antibodies wouldn't attack as much of the baby's blood as your body would if it were sensitized to rh+ blood. Also, they usually give you the injection at 28 weeks so the baby is further developed and could withstand the attack of the injection better than a subsequent baby if you are sensitized because your blood would attack his or hers from conception. They also give you an injection within 72 hours after birth just to be sure.

My humble opinion is that it would be best to wait until within a few weeks of birth to have the first shot, but the problem is that some babies are early birds and it's tough to figure out when "a few weeks before delivery" will be.

The thing that I don't understand is: I thought the placenta keeps maternal blood away from the baby just as it keeps baby's blood from the mom. So if this is the norm, and blood only usually mixes at birth, logically thinking you wouldn't need the shot because who cares if blood mixes at birth? Blood should not be mixing throughout pg. anyway unless there is some serious trauma, or you have an amnio or something. : Is that not true? So I'm not sure what the actual risk of sensitization is. The placenta is supposed to be preventing a blood mix sensitized or not. kwim? So what is the percentage of sensitized women who actually have probs with subsequent babies, and how many of those problems were due to some other trauma?

So that's what I have, sorry it's not complete. Oh, yeah, I did look up the package insert and it said that no studies have been done on the effects of using of rogahm in pg women : so did they study it's effect on pg men? :LOL

[turquoise]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, just get DH tested. If he's rh- too then no need for the shot anyway.

[AutumnMoonfire]

Rhogam won't hurt you or the baby, but If you are Rh- and your partner is Rh+ there WILL be problems with future babies without it, they will begin earlier with each subsequent pregnancy and will be more catastrophic. This is not speculation, prior to the discovery of the Rh factor in the 1940's nobody really understood why some women had one healthy baby and then started having miscarriges sooner and sooner. They found out about the Rh factor and slowly learned more and more.

Rhogam prevents an Rh- mother from developing antibodies to Rh positive blood. The placenta is not a barrier against this antibody, maybe in the beginning but as the number of antibodies increase they same to be able to cross the placenta and attack.

While some of the complications of Rh sensitized babies can be corrected nowadays other related complications can cause a life of disability.

I try to keep an open mind on the anti-vax thing because it is true they can cause harm but this freaks me out, I have never heard of complications from getting Rhogam, I have heard of complications from not getting it!!! Yes it is reasonable to have your partner tested and to forgo it if you are both Rh- but otherwise you are allowing your healthy suspicion of the system to turn into outright paranoia. Sorry about the rant, I'm just a little upset...

[AutumnMoonfire]

I took the following paragrapgh from this website

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio105/humn_gen.htm

A special case dealing with Rh factor is that of an Rh- woman married to an Rh+ man. Recall from our discussion on testcrosses that this means, if he’s RR, all of their children will be Rh+ and if he’s Rr, half of the children will be Rh+. Since Rh- blood doesn’t have the Rh cell surface antigen, the mother can make anti-Rh+ antibodies, but needs exposure to the Rh+ antigens first to do so. When she’s pregnant with her first baby, hopefully all will be well because she probably has had no previous exposure to Rh+ blood. Blood cells don’t cross the placenta, so her blood shouldn’t be exposed to the baby’s blood and everything should be OK.


**Edited per copyright policy**

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...&threadid=6026

[turquoise]

fyi nak :bf

Originally posted by AutumnMoonfire
The placenta is not a barrier against this antibody, maybe in the beginning but as the number of antibodies increase they same to be able to cross the placenta and attack.

Ah! That's the part that I didn't understand... the blood does not cross, but the antibodies do. Thanks!

Originally posted by AutumnMoonfire
I try to keep an open mind on the anti-vax thing because it is true they can cause harm but this freaks me out, I have never heard of complications from getting Rhogam, I have heard of complications from not getting it!!! Yes it is reasonable to have your partner tested and to forgo it if you are both Rh- but otherwise you are allowing your healthy suspicion of the system to turn into outright paranoia. Sorry about the rant, I'm just a little upset...

I must respectfully disagree with this statement. While my opinion (for what it’s worth) is that the benefit of the shot usually outweigh the risks, just because you have not heard of complications from the shot does not mean it does not happen. A simple google on "rhogam" will give you several sites with headings such as "Have you been Injured by RhoGAM". RhoGAM did have thimerosal in it, which is an obvious issue, but even though it is not made with thimerosal any longer it still has risks.
Here are a couple of sites:

Package insert (warnings and contraindications start on page 3) http://www.jnjgateway.com/public/USENG/RhoGAM.pdf

http://www.rhogamfyi.com/

http://www.rhogamfyi.com/rhogam_side_effects.html

The RhoGAM treatment that has been produced since April of 2001 can be administered with very little risk to the patient and the fetus. The patient should be aware, nevertheless, that RhoGAM can cause:

*Local inflammation (swelling, redness, and induration) at the injection site

*Slight fever

*Viral infection (Because RhoGAM is made from human plasma, there is a potential for the patient to develop a viral infection. However, the occurrence of infection is miniscule because of the intense screening of the plasma.)
The treatment may also be ineffective; the patient may produce antibodies despite receiving the shot. The incidence of RhoGAM side effects is about one in 60,000 doses.

and another http://my.webmd.com/content/healthwise/31/7591


The necessity of the prophylactic dose at 28 weeks is questioned by many drs and midwives. (I think you can also find some midwives discussing it in other posts on MDC) In case of blood mix at birth, the dose at birth can be effective without risk to the baby. Also, there are many things that the dr can do (or I should say NOT do) to help ensure that the baby's blood does not mingle with mom's in the first place. This would include not pulling on the cord and allowing the placenta to birth naturally, not clamping/cutting the cord until it is done pulsating, avoiding episiotomy, protecting the perineum, etc. Too many dr.s get trigger happy and want to tug on this, or clamp and pull on that. My last baby is a shining example of why women would want a RhoGAM shot after birth. I won’t go into the gory details, but if DH had been rh+ I would have insisted on a heavy dose of RhoGAM after Trinity was born. Let’s just say if I were in my right mind I would have got up off the table and kicked that woman dr in the shin.

[AutumnMoonfire]

I totally see your point!

I get queer looks at work because I won't push the MMR on non immune women who are done having babies...OR who have had it after each of several kids and are still non-immune. It isn't making them immune, and it may cause a reaction!

Why do they push Rhogam on women before they know their spouses' blood type? Why are they giving it at 28 weeks to a primap or to a woman who's first was Rh-? I know why, it's called CYA!

Medical CYA behavior is why I support folks who choose not to VAX even when I choose to vax. These stiffs are so busy covering there own butts that the research needed to give the vaxes safely isn't happening. (or isn't being heeded)

I have to go to work now...

[pumpkinhead]

You might also try researching 'WinRho' which is the Canadian equivalent of RhoGam. It currently (since 2000 I think?) doesn't contain Thimersol.

[Velveteen]

Thanks all!

Thanks for your thoughtful and informative replies. I am reading away over here.
I never expect to be just 'given' all the information I need without doing the research myself, but it sure helps to have all of you!
I is very easy to type in a question, but takes a lot more time to help someone out with the answer!

[Gitti]

DD is rh- and her dh is rh+

She got the shot AFTER the first child was born.

And she will not take the shot while pregnant (when she gets pregnant with a second child) but will take it again AFTER the second baby is born.

I asked her about it and she said, yes, that is right. She will take it after the second child is born.

[Mommy To Baby Roni]

My ob did not want to go to the trouble of getting me WinRho, when I thought RhoGam contained thimerisol. He said it was a "negligeable" amount and I shouldn't be so concerned. After I insisted, he THEN suggested we test DH for his bloodtype. Duh!!! Thank goodness I had already looked into all of this myself and already knew he was Rh+.

So, he was prescibing the shot w/out even knowing if DH was Rh-/+. Never think you have to stop looking out for yourself because someone else is doing it for you!

I read as much as I could find at the time, not yet knowing about Mothering.com & had RhoGam during pg & after. I don't think I will not be getting it next time around, assuming it will be my last child.

[applejuice]

Keep in mind that Rhogam is made from other peoples's blood and therefore has the possibility, however negligible, of carrying the AIDS virus.

Bet your doctor won't volunteer that information.

[N2theWoods]

Yes, Rhogam is a human blood product - created from the blood of various human males. It rather gives me the shivers.

I am rh- and my DH is rh+. We have refused the prophylactic (28 week,) shot. Neither my midwife or my backup OB are concerned about this refusal. The potential of blood mixing before the birth is low. It happens, but it's low. The poster who said that there are things one can do to minimize the risks of sensitization at birth (waiting for the placenta to be delivered gently, not pulling cord, waiting for cord to stop pulsing, no internal fetal monitoring, no c-section, etc.) is RIGHT ON.

I have NEVER read that the blood doesn't cross the placenta but the antibodies do. I question that and would like to see the data backing up that statement - I did a lot of research and never came across that statement. My understanding is that many rh- women who are sensitized go on to have healthy rh+ babies, the risk just goes up with each subsequent baby. Am not insisting I'm right - I could have just missed that part in my research - please help me out, here.

It is ridiculous - the shot is pushed on rh- women regardless of the husband's blood type. That's silly - get your DH tested. Mine was + but 15% of the population is rh- so you never know. I do believe that the effect on the baby of the prophylactic rhogam shot has not been studied enough, which is why I refused it. The babe in my belly right now is not in danger - the shot is to protect the NEXT baby. I did get an antibody screen to make sure that I wasn' already sensitized and you can get one done as well. Of course, if you've already developed the antibodies, the Rhogam won't help you any.

Also, get the baby's blood tested before you get the post-birth Rhogam shot. They can do it very quickly without sticking your baby using the cord blood. If your baby is rh-, you don't need Rhogam at all.

Good luck!

[applejuice]

I have had four children born at home, and never had the rhogam shot.

I am rh- with du+, a compensating factor.

DH is rh+

We are both O.

NO problems.

[N2theWoods]

GOOD point about the Du factor. I was negative for both, rh- and du-

[Sustainer]

I am Rh- and my partner is Rh+. After extensive research, I reached the conclusion that the risks of being injected with Rhogam are greater than the risks of avoiding Rhogam, especially in my case, since I opt for gentle homebirths and don't have to worry about some jerk doctor yanking on the cord or some other form of birth violence that might cause blood to mix that would not normally mix. There are midwives who have attended homebirths their entire lives who never once prescribed Rhogam and never once had a patient develop an Rh problem. The medical community has invented Rhogam as a "solution" to a problem of their own creation. I have refused both the prenatal and post-partum shots for both of my pregnancies.

[Velveteen]

So first things first, dh is getting his blood tested.

Applejuice; I am afraid I don't know what a du+ compensating factor is?

[applejuice]

Velveteen:

I just pm'd you!

[istamama]

I live in Canada and had Winrho as i'm Rh- and dh is Rh+. I had midwifery care and it was routinely given in such cases. However I had it only within 72 hours of giving birth, as is routinely done in Europe. I read that in Europe pregnant women are never given the equivalent of Rhogam. There is no need to, and it avoids all the risks to the baby.
But, if I knew then what i know now i wouldn't have had it at all. I won't be having another child, so there was no reason to have it.
One can have a regular blood test during pregnancy to see if one has dev'd antibodies to the fetus' blood. This is usually done to see if it's worth giving one winrho/rhogam during pregnancy; if one has already dev'd antibodies it's useless to have the shot. But you can use this test to satisfy yourself you don't need the shot. If one has no antibodies, there has been no blood mixing and one doesn't need rhogam/winrho. Have the last test before birth. Also if one has a smooth birth with no episiotomy, no hemmorrhage, cutting the cord after it stops pulsing, no pulling of the cord etc, no tearing with blood, then there is little chance of the blood mixing and the mother dev'ing antibodies. Then one wouldn't need the winrho after the birth. If you have amniocentesis your blood will mix with that of your fetus, and you'll need winrho beforehand to avoid future babies being affected.
After i had hte shot i was really squeamish as i read that it is impossible to rule out the chance of HIV or Creutzfeld Jacob's Disease from the shot. It really bothered me. In hindsight, i would not have had the shot.
Istamama.