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why are so many boys treated as sub-humans? - Page 6

post #101 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipumpkins View Post
Why should the access to color be based on ones gender?
Who decided pink is "girl" (and BTW it wasnt' always that way...pink used to be the boy color)
What if your DS wanted to wear something pink? What if he wants to wear flowers? What if he wants to wear a ballerina on his clothes? Why should anyone's life be limited b/c they were born one gender or another?
If he asked, I would not object. But I would not purposefully go out and buy him a pink and purple shirt with a ballerina on it I don’t think his life is limited because of the color of his clothing. I have no problem with him taking ballet, playing with brooms, etc. I’m just talking about the color of clothing and us parents who decide to dress our child in traditional gender colors. I don’t see the problem with it.
post #102 of 128
Okay, well I said in an earlier post that we don't normally get idiotic comments, but I just got one yesterday.

DS's dad and I work at the same restaurant, and yesterday he had the lunch shift and I was working the dinner shift. I came in at four, and was waiting for R to get off work so that I could go in. He was bartending, and like I usually do, I passed DS over the bar to R for some daddy hugs. An older man walks up to the bar and sits down and says to R "is that one yours??". R says "yep". Guy says "well you have a beautiful daughter". R says "haha, beautiful son, actually". Guy just stares at him, wide eyed and R, obviously seeing the guys confusion says "yeah, he has long hair". Another one of the (female) bartenders walks up and reaches out for DS (everyone at Outback loves him hehe) and R, just playing around, goes "nuh uh, he's mine!" but DS practically lept into her arms. R was like "ah, that's cold, son" and the guy at the bar starts laughing his butt off and says "ohhhh, yeah, he is aaaall boy". Because apparently, if a THREE year old wants to be held by a female, that must make him good and masculine. It couldn't possibly be that he knows that Miss Rachel often has candy in her purse.
post #103 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjjazzy View Post
yes! thank you! i hate it when guys razz eachother, saying things like "you're such a girl" or "put down your purse", as though girls/women are lesser beings.
That made me LOL cause my son's dad really does carry a "man purse".

I'm hoping that between DS's dad and I, he'll have a pretty well-rounded idea of what girl and boy entails, despite the culture we live in.
post #104 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
I feel badly for boys but I also feel badly for girls too. Having a girl, I was told she was "flirting" when she smiled, told that she was going to "break hearts" because she is so "pretty" and that daddy better "keep her locked in her room until she is 25" (can anyone say inappropriate mature/sexual references???).
I've had comments along the same lines made towards my son Although I have heard the girl comments more often. Keeping a bat behind the front door is a favorite in my neck of the woods.
post #105 of 128
This thread makes me feel so :
post #106 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipumpkins View Post
Why should the access to color be based on ones gender?
Who decided pink is "girl" (and BTW it wasnt' always that way...pink used to be the boy color)
What if your DS wanted to wear something pink? What if he wants to wear flowers? What if he wants to wear a ballerina on his clothes? Why should anyone's life be limited b/c they were born one gender or another?
ITA. MY ds and dd wear the same clothes and hand me downs and dress up as princesses and ballerinas and animals and everything together. I wouldn't have it any other way.

ETA: The examples cited definitely have more to do with bad parenting than anything else. Growing up female and raising a son and a daughter, I see just how misogynistic our society is.
post #107 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by urchin_grey View Post
Because apparently, if a THREE year old wants to be held by a female, that must make him good and masculine. It couldn't possibly be that he knows that Miss Rachel often has candy in her purse.
Yep. We have been getting that kind of stuff since ds 6 was not even crawling. I try to head it off when I can tell someone is building up to a homophobic comment about him playing well with little girls by saying what a hit he is with the ladies. And he is, but I hate that I have to spin it. I don't think he is old enough to know about ANY sexuality, let alone have one pinned on him by an obvious sexist homophobe. And the sad thing is, I have had gay male coworkers make the same remarks about him because he likes to dress nicely and had shirley temple curls until he asked to cut them last year.
The only cool thing about the stupid hair remarks is that whereas anyone under seventy in TX seemingly makes one association about pretty little boys, really old men always chuckled and patted his head and said how pretty he was and that you wouldn't believe it by how ugly (their words) or bald they were now but they used to have just the same hairdo. And their wives would praise him for it too. So I mostly have to defend him against people my age and my parents' ages.
Of course he is getting to an age where kids are having more obvious weight and fitness problems so the fact that after years of ballet he is visibly in better shape (stands tall, shoulders back, etc) than the macho idiots' sons may solve that soon. Which is ironic because that's never been something I cared that much about. But yeah, DD climbing gets praise, DS doing ballet gets hateful remarks. They both do both things but my son gets way more crap about failing to fit the mold. I am just trying to teach him to be proud of not fitting the mold. It is a bad mold. (including the idea that when he has a daughter he should get armed to the teeth - we have gotten those comments about DD, too.)
layne
post #108 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by kldliam View Post

The first boy, let's call him Gordon, is 9. He confided to me that his dad pulls his lose teeth out with pliers. I could tell he wasn't happy about it, that it was weighing on his mind somehow. When I reacted in disbelif and shock, he tried to play it down by saying "it's not so bad". Would his dad have done this to his daughter? Gordon is an only child. How would you feel if the story was about a girl instead of Gordon?
My parents pulled one of my teeth out with pliers!
post #109 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
I feel badly for boys but I also feel badly for girls too. Having a girl, I was told she was "flirting" when she smiled, told that she was going to "break hearts" because she is so "pretty" and that daddy better "keep her locked in her room until she is 25" (can anyone say inappropriate mature/sexual references???). I have been told that she is "too" -- rambunctious, opinionated, etc -- I have had mothers tell their boys to be gentle with my daughter because "we need to be gentle with the girls" -- even though my daughter was having a great time (and the boy was just being a kid, nothing rough or mean).
I'm constantly told my boys are flirting too. I think any baby that smiles is considered a flirt.
And to be honest, after reading posts here about how evil all boys and men are, I DO teach my sons to be more gentle with girls. The last thing I need is someone thinking my child is assaulting their daughter.

OH! and for Halloween, DS wanted to be the purple teletubby, Tinky Winky. We had people beg us not to do it. Telling us he'd be gay. My husband actually had someone at work tell him that our son would be gay because he was in a Tinky Winky costume.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teenytoona View Post
IN truth, I think it's the flip side of girls must be little nice demure submissive things and boys must be aggressive tough emotionless machines. Really this mentality does no individual or society good. I think kids must be full people, regardless of gender, kwim?
I fully agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
Here, too, I have seen other mothers defend their position that they will always look at any male school age and above as a natural rapist, and sometimes won't even allow them to earn trust, because they're inherently untrustworthy. I had no idea that such extreme views existed (and yes, I have been raped, being part of survivors groups was very important in my life for a time, and even THERE I never heard the kind of things that I have read here) until I joined this site ages ago.

To me, it's that kind of attitude that is the most disturbing. "Don't cry" bugs me, but it doesn't hit me in the gut like someone implying that because they have a penis my boys should be proactively treated like sexual offenders. To me, that IS treating a whole class of people as subhuman, as much as I have a great deal of empathy for the trauma that must have happened to make people feel that way.
I had to quit coming to MDC for a long time after I read all the posts around a certain time about this. It broke my heart to think that so many people think this. I too have been raped, and sexually abused, and I don't look at all men to be perverted attackers.

My mom used to say things and send my email forwards all the time ab out how useless and dumb men are. About how nobody needs a man, ect. Her favorite thing to say was "I don't need no stupid, stinkin' man!". After my eldest was about 1, she said it and I gently reminded her that Rune would be a man some day. And I needed him, she needed him. And he wasn't stupid and didn't smell.

I think it sucks for both genders and we need to do our parts to realize a problem exists and help fix it
post #110 of 128
Thread Starter 
No Martyr Complex here. Just a sincere sadness about the way we interact with one another. I tend to use the "gender-lens" alot, so that is why I described these stories in those terms. I don't think that it's right or wrong to do, it's just a way of looking at things. Yes, humans can all be abusive, but for some odd reason I am extremely sensitive to how little boys are treated or mistreated as the case may be.

Quote:
Aimee: I think it sucks for both genders and we need to do our parts to realize a problem exists and help fix it
I agree. This is really all that I could hope for. Thank you for saying it.
post #111 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by kldliam View Post
The first boy, let's call him Gordon, is 9. He confided to me that his dad pulls his lose teeth out with pliers. I could tell he wasn't happy about it, that it was weighing on his mind somehow. When I reacted in disbelif and shock, he tried to play it down by saying "it's not so bad". Would his dad have done this to his daughter? Gordon is an only child. How would you feel if the story was about a girl instead of Gordon?
My grandpa pulled my teeth out with pliers.
post #112 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy View Post
My grandpa pulled my teeth out with pliers.
I don't think it is really abusive. I think people just don't really think. Oh this was how my teeth were pulled when they were loose so I will do it to So and so. They don't think it is any worse than removing a splinter with a needle. A necessary evil.

My mother tied a string to my tooth and the other end to the doorknob then told me to slam the door when she left the room. She couldn't stand the sight of blood and wouldn't do it herself.
post #113 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I don't think it is really abusive. I think people just don't really think. Oh this was how my teeth were pulled when they were loose so I will do it to So and so. They don't think it is any worse than removing a splinter with a needle. A necessary evil.

My mother tied a string to my tooth and the other end to the doorknob then told me to slam the door when she left the room. She couldn't stand the sight of blood and wouldn't do it herself.


My grandpa might have pulled his own teeth out with pliers. I should ask him.
post #114 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love_My_Babies View Post
I have been grappling with these issues for some time. A great read on the subject is Raising Cain, The Emotional Life of Boys. You can read snipits of it on the PBS parent site.

I have three boys ages three and under, and I have had a lot of comments from people. Each time I was pregnant, people would assume we were trying for a girl. They were shocked when they found out that gender didn't matter to me, and I just wanted a healthy baby. Now that I have three boys, people wish me luck and tell me I have my hands full. I feel sorry for those people because they haven't enjoyed the pure love, energy and enthusiasim for life that these three boys bring us. So, I simply say, "Yes, three boys. Aren't I lucky!"
I second that Raising Cain is a really great book on this subject!

I'm going to give birth to my third boy soon and also cannot believe how many people have asked me if we were trying for a girl or are going to try for a 4th to get a girl. I really feel sometimes that little boys are just not valued in society.
post #115 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloHoneySF View Post
I second that Raising Cain is a really great book on this subject!

I'm going to give birth to my third boy soon and also cannot believe how many people have asked me if we were trying for a girl or are going to try for a 4th to get a girl. I really feel sometimes that little boys are just not valued in society.
I see this happen to many mama's if they have children that are all one sex." I think there is this assumption that your family is not complete without at least one of "each"
post #116 of 128
Yeah. People are shocked that we are having another baby since we already have one of each. They aren't salt and pepper shakers.
post #117 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloHoneySF View Post
I'm going to give birth to my third boy soon and also cannot believe how many people have asked me if we were trying for a girl or are going to try for a 4th to get a girl. I really feel sometimes that little boys are just not valued in society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryansma View Post
I see this happen to many mama's if they have children that are all one sex." I think there is this assumption that your family is not complete without at least one of "each"
I got that all the time when I had three girls. I don't think it has anything to do with not valuing boys... it's as ryansma said, people don't think your family is complete without boys and girls.

I always got, so now that you have a boy your done?
post #118 of 128
I've only gotten a few comments about it. One was about how DS is "all boy" and will probably play football someday. The other one was from a cashier at Sears about how girls are so hard to raise and to never have one and about how she loves little boys. I hope I never get any of the comments any of you have gotten. Wow. I personally think all children are treated as less than human and it seems that boys get the short end of the stick with some people, especially older people and people who like girls better than boys, for whatever reason. I hate some of the boy stereotypes that are perpetuated but it honestly seems to me that a lot of people are trying to get away from those, which is good.
post #119 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by acannon View Post
Wow. I personally think all children are treated as less than human. . .
amen to that. We talk about it sometimes and the kids now refer to some people as "you know, that kind of person who thinks that kids are small stupid grownups." They know that the problem is with that kind of person and not them, which is the best I can do you know? That and remind my kids not to grow up to be that kind of person. Or "one of those people who think only boys can do science" or "one of those people who think they are better because they are white" or "one of those people who think only girls can be gentle." I wish we didn't have to have so many "one of those people" discussions though (while at the same time being proud that my kids really believe in kindness even to "one of those people who"s)
layne
post #120 of 128
nak

I also wanted to add, a pediatrician at the hospital (not our pedi) said "Oh he's your first boy? Watch out for him, boys always use Mommy as a pacifier." (Said as I was nursing him.)

Um, what?
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