Extended Breastfeeding and Nightweaning Question

[Autumn C.]

Hello Ladies,

My little is not quite in the "extended" category yet but I am looking toward the future some and I think I'd like to try BF beyond her first birthday. However, night nursing has been a HUGE challenge to me and I'm curious if one can nightwean early (say between 10 and 12 months) but still nurse well past the 1st birthday.

Any advice, info, or personal stories would be great.

Thanks in advance!

[alegna]

I would not be comfortable nightweaning before around 18 months. Biologically many infants really need the nutrition at night before then.

-Angela

[BnInTheOvn]

You absolutely CAN nightwean before then, however there are some babies that still do need the nutrition in the night if they are not filling their calories during the day.

If you want to go about doing it, make sure that you are offering healthy snacks throughout the day, and offer a healthy snack before bedtime, especially one that will be likely to hold the baby over until morning... we gave oatmeal as a bedtime snack (about a half hour or so before she went to bed) and that made a huge difference... she was full enough that she didn't need to nurse in the middle of the night (although she still woke up sometimes, just a very light sleeper).

As a warning though, just because you wean at night doesnt mean that baby wont wake up for other reasons, some babies just have that sleeping pattern. But at least you wont always have to nurse back to sleep...

Usually once you night wean they dont wake up as much, but not always... and if you notice that your baby will not accept anything other than nursing, she may just not be ready for it.

We very recently night weaned, and suddenly she slept through the night and actually weaned all together (not all babies will wean alltogether though, so you can still continue to nurse during the day, my daughter is almost 2 though so she wasn't as dependent on the nursing calories)

[BnInTheOvn]

BTW: YEY for wanting to breastfeed past a year!!

[tygrss]

I think that you can night wean, but I would personally weight until your LO is 12 months or so. Some babies need the calories at night past then, but I think most probably don't (if your LO does need the calories she will probably resist weaning, IMO). You know your daughter better than anyone else.

My DS is 15 months old and I night-weaned him at ~13 months. Interestingly, he suddenly started to sleep completely through the night, which was definitely a bonus. He still nurses whenever he wants throughout the day. He seems to be a happier camper as well (probably because he is better rested--again, another unexpected bonus).

We make sure that he gets plenty of healthy snacks throughout the day to ensure that he's not missing any calories (he's gaining weight nicely).

Good luck. Listen to your DD and your instincts and I think that you will be fine.

[henny penny]

I think it can be done. My ds nightweaned at about 10m. He was nursing only once a night when he went through a bad stomach bug where he nursed all night for a few nights and then when he felt a little better he slept right through the night (I think he was really tired from being ill). That was it. No tears, no fuss. He now nurses upon waking and through the day but only rarely wants to nurse in the night. When he does I usually try to rock him back to sleep first and that does the trick for us. He's now 13 months and I plan to nurse for several more months, at least.

[Mommal]

I think it's definitely possible to nightwean and continue to nurse during the day for a long time to come. I partially nightweaned my daughter at 10.5 months, going from 5-6 nursing sessions a night to just 1. She continued to nurse once a night until she was 2, when I eliminated that last nighttime feeding. She's nearing 3 now, still nurses twice a day, and would doubtless nurse more if I offered.

[Autumn C.]

Originally Posted by Mommal

I think it's definitely possible to nightwean and continue to nurse during the day for a long time to come. I partially nightweaned my daughter at 10.5 months, going from 5-6 nursing sessions a night to just 1. .

This is something I'm agreeable to. How did you do it? I would turn flips of joy if she only woke 1-2 times a night. Right now we're in the 7-9 category, I think.

Part of the problem is, my LO is chronically overtired as well. I like to think that if she were fairing well with the night nursing then I could maybe hold out a little longer.

[alegna]

Have you investigated food sensitivities? Some moms find that's what's causing the nightwaking.



-Angela

[happy2bamama]

I nightweaned DS around 13-14 months and it was the greatest thing ever, although it was hard to know what to do while we were doing it, but luckily DS was agreeable. It went gradually down from 3 wakings, to 2, to one and DS just had the GNARLIEST stomach flu ever for 7 days and now he is nursing like a newborn at night again which is making me crazy. So, we're in for round two of nightweaning one of these nights when I think he's back to normal.

Anyhoo, here's a thread that was really helpful to me while I was going through it. HTH!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=847974

[Autumn C.]

Originally Posted by alegna

Have you investigated food sensitivities? Some moms find that's what's causing the nightwaking.



-Angela

I have investigated food sensitivites doing an ED that I started when she was somewhere between 4 1/2 and 5 months. It had no effect on her waking or any other effect for that matter.

My instinct is that it is a combination problem: a light sleeper + a reluctant sleeper + not knowing how to fall asleep or stay asleep without lots of intervention. The last one I think is normal but this combines with the other two so, frequently, when hitting a light sleep portion of a sleep cycle (at 20 or 45 mins plus the regular 1.5-2.0 wakings) we have a completly awake babe and a momma trying very hard to cope.

[Autumn C.]

Originally Posted by happy2bamama

I nightweaned DS around 13-14 months and it was the greatest thing ever, although it was hard to know what to do while we were doing it, but luckily DS was agreeable. It went gradually down from 3 wakings, to 2, to one and DS just had the GNARLIEST stomach flu ever for 7 days and now he is nursing like a newborn at night again which is making me crazy. So, we're in for round two of nightweaning one of these nights when I think he's back to normal.

Anyhoo, here's a thread that was really helpful to me while I was going through it. HTH!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=847974

Thanks for the link. I am absorbing like crazy.

[Mommal]

The first thing I did which was helpful was to read Elizabeth Pantley's The No-Cry Sleep Solution, which is full of gentle ways to get your baby to sleep longer and better during day and night without using cry-it-out methods. By using the "Pantley pull-off" technique in a semi-successful way, instituting a very consistent naptime and bedtime routine, and moving DD from our bed to a crib in her own room, I was able to reduce the night wakings from 6-8 to 5-6.

Even with only 5-6 wake-ups per night I still felt like I was losing it. 10.5 months of no sleep was literally driving me nuts. I was worried that one night I would wake up for the 6th time, walk in to my daughter's room, lose my fragile composure, and shake my kid.

I was (and still am) certain that the reason my baby woke up so frequently at night was that she associated falling deeply asleep with being on the breast, and therefore expected to have that "crutch" every time she woke up in the night. Finally, I decided that I would nurse my kid and pop her into bed while she was still wide awake. I did, and she cried. She marched around the crib screaming furiously while I sat on the floor next to the crib and sang songs to her and talked to her and rubbed her back.

It took 1/2 an hour of screaming and marching before DD finally hiccupped herself into an exhausted sleep. But that night she slept from 9 p.m. until 3 a.m. without interruption. Then she nursed briefly and went back to sleep until 7:30 in the morning.

The next night was the same, only it took just 20 minutes for DD to go to sleep. The third night took 20 minutes again, the fourth night just 5, and the fifth night she went to bed without any upset at all.

I don't recommend what taking the route I did unless, like me, you have reached the breaking point. The crying was really hard on the whole family. But if you have reached the breaking point, I do not think that allowing your kid to cry while you are right there to offer comfort is the worst thing you could do.

[Autumn C.]

Originally Posted by Mommal

The first thing I did which was helpful was to read Elizabeth Pantley's The No-Cry Sleep Solution, which is full of gentle ways to get your baby to sleep longer and better during day and night without using cry-it-out methods. By using the "Pantley pull-off" technique in a semi-successful way, instituting a very consistent naptime and bedtime routine, and moving DD from our bed to a crib in her own room, I was able to reduce the night wakings from 6-8 to 5-6.

Even with only 5-6 wake-ups per night I still felt like I was losing it. 10.5 months of no sleep was literally driving me nuts. I was worried that one night I would wake up for the 6th time, walk in to my daughter's room, lose my fragile composure, and shake my kid.

I was (and still am) certain that the reason my baby woke up so frequently at night was that she associated falling deeply asleep with being on the breast, and therefore expected to have that "crutch" every time she woke up in the night. Finally, I decided that I would nurse my kid and pop her into bed while she was still wide awake. I did, and she cried. She marched around the crib screaming furiously while I sat on the floor next to the crib and sang songs to her and talked to her and rubbed her back.

It took 1/2 an hour of screaming and marching before DD finally hiccupped herself into an exhausted sleep. But that night she slept from 9 p.m. until 3 a.m. without interruption. Then she nursed briefly and went back to sleep until 7:30 in the morning.

The next night was the same, only it took just 20 minutes for DD to go to sleep. The third night took 20 minutes again, the fourth night just 5, and the fifth night she went to bed without any upset at all.

I don't recommend what taking the route I did unless, like me, you have reached the breaking point. The crying was really hard on the whole family. But if you have reached the breaking point, I do not think that allowing your kid to cry while you are right there to offer comfort is the worst thing you could do.

I have NCSS and have been doing Pantley pull off for a while. It wasn't really a problem for us because she so rarely falls asleep at the breast anyway. I would move her to her own room because I'm pretty positive that some of her wakings are due to dh and myself, but we have no other room. And frankly, if I thought my dd would only cry for 30 mins while I comforted her we would have done it already. My dd doesn't deter from what she wants very easily. Ugh, I don't mean to be so negative. Just having a rough time of it.

[happy2bamama]

Originally Posted by Autumn C.

I have NCSS and have been doing Pantley pull off for a while. It wasn't really a problem for us because she so rarely falls asleep at the breast anyway. I would move her to her own room because I'm pretty positive that some of her wakings are due to dh and myself, but we have no other room. And frankly, if I thought my dd would only cry for 30 mins while I comforted her we would have done it already. My dd doesn't deter from what she wants very easily. Ugh, I don't mean to be so negative. Just having a rough time of it.

Have you tried anything yet in terms of nightweaning? Do you know for sure that your DD will completely resist it? They can surprise us sometimes, as I'm sure you know

When we started nightweaning, I just kept telling myself that if anything felt miserable, I would stop and reassess. That way, I didn't get too stressed about "what if he cries forever?" or "what if he's really mad?" I knew that if it was too much for me, I would just stop and nurse him and rethink it. I didn't go in there with a "I'm not giving in!" strategy or anything like that. I wanted to listen to his cues and follow my heart.

Luckily, DS was pretty agreeable with it - of course, he wasn't happy those first couple of nights (like 5-10 minutes of crying), but what I found to be most interesting was MY attitude about it. I knew how bone tired I was and that this could be my chance to get some energy back and not be such a zombie, so listening to DS cry for 5-10 minutes sort of didn't faze me because I had my eye on the prize, so to speak. Also, the main reason was (like I've said a 1000 times on that other thread), I knew that I wasn't leaving him to cry alone and that I was there to comfort him and love him so even if he was upset, I knew he wasn't scared, which makes a huge difference in my mind.

[Autumn C.]

Originally Posted by happy2bamama

Have you tried anything yet in terms of nightweaning? Do you know for sure that your DD will completely resist it? They can surprise us sometimes, as I'm sure you know

. Also, the main reason was (like I've said a 1000 times on that other thread), I knew that I wasn't leaving him to cry alone and that I was there to comfort him and love him so even if he was upset, I knew he wasn't scared, which makes a huge difference in my mind.

I have tried some nightweaning. No nursies between 10pm and 3am. I picked the time frame she nurses for very short periods of time anyway thinking that indicated that nursing wasn't about hunger but a tool to get back to sleep. For a few days it went eerily well. She did not make one single peep. And then, its like she figured out something was going on an would.not.sleep. without nursing. I mean she woke up and stayed up. Usually she was happy and babbling and what not. After some days of being up nonstop during the "no nursies" hours I gave up and gave in.

[BnInTheOvn]

Originally Posted by Autumn C.

My instinct is that it is a combination problem: a light sleeper + a reluctant sleeper + not knowing how to fall asleep or stay asleep without lots of intervention. The last one I think is normal but this combines with the other two so, frequently, when hitting a light sleep portion of a sleep cycle (at 20 or 45 mins plus the regular 1.5-2.0 wakings) we have a completly awake babe and a momma trying very hard to cope.

I also found, opposite to what Pantley's book said (which I have read a few times and do like, but didnt work for us) that keeping Annalise up until she was absolutely tired, instead of at the first signs of being tired, worked better. We threw bedtime out the window, along with structure and routine...

I continued to nurse her to sleep, I turned the clock around so I didnt know what time it was when she woke up in the middle of the night, or how long it took me to get her back to sleep.

Some nights she went to bed at 11pm, because that is when she was finally exhausted. After about 2 weeks of that, we started moving bedtime up, but as a note -- if you move bedtime up, it starts in the MORNING. Wake your baby up earlier in the morning. move nap time up (we also started waking her if she slept more than an hour and a half for nap) and then put her down when she's exhausted.

Sometimes babies wake a lot during the night because they sleep too long for a nap (Annalise was a super napper, she'd got at least 3 sometimes 4 hrs if i let her, but then would be up every 2 hrs at night). Try waking her earlier from a nap, too.

She stopped getting up as much at night once we stopped counting and trying to control it so much. Some babies dont work on that schedule...

[Carita]

what about other allergy problems besides food? i just talked with our allergist today and he said allergies/snoring/sleep apnea can contribute to lots of night waking and overtiredness.

[Autumn C.]

Originally Posted by BnInTheOvn

I also found, opposite to what Pantley's book said (which I have read a few times and do like, but didnt work for us) that keeping Annalise up until she was absolutely tired, instead of at the first signs of being tired, worked better. We threw bedtime out the window, along with structure and routine...

I continued to nurse her to sleep, I turned the clock around so I didnt know what time it was when she woke up in the middle of the night, or how long it took me to get her back to sleep.

Some nights she went to bed at 11pm, because that is when she was finally exhausted. After about 2 weeks of that, we started moving bedtime up, but as a note -- if you move bedtime up, it starts in the MORNING. Wake your baby up earlier in the morning. move nap time up (we also started waking her if she slept more than an hour and a half for nap) and then put her down when she's exhausted.

Sometimes babies wake a lot during the night because they sleep too long for a nap (Annalise was a super napper, she'd got at least 3 sometimes 4 hrs if i let her, but then would be up every 2 hrs at night). Try waking her earlier from a nap, too.

She stopped getting up as much at night once we stopped counting and trying to control it so much. Some babies dont work on that schedule...

I know I've totally do this. Control the sleep times beginning from the morning wake up. Nothin.

[Autumn C.]

Originally Posted by Carita

what about other allergy problems besides food? i just talked with our allergist today and he said allergies/snoring/sleep apnea can contribute to lots of night waking and overtiredness.

She hasn't had any obvious signs of allergies but anything is worth investigating.

She doesn't snore. I don't think apnea's the issue.

Could it just be habit? Is that even possible?