Equal rights not special rights

[beru]

I love this blog post. It's my introduction to a topic that is stirring in the swimming-pool thread. In another post, Jen "the lactivist" said "This movement has GOT to get beyond the idea that any action is good action. It's not. The wrong type of action can hurt the movement as a whole." We should be fighting for equal rights not special rights.

Please read and discuss.

[KirstenMary]

See, here's the thing. Breastfeeding does NOT give you the right to trounce over pre-existing rules. Not when those rules have nothing to do with breastfeeding. Your baby isn't exempt just because only you can feed him or her. YOU are not exempt just because you have to take care of your child. While it may be poor customer service to tell you your child isn't welcome, it's FAR from discrimination.

Yes. GREAT post. I would love to say more, but I have to get ready for a birthday party.

[pumpkinhead]

I'm not a fan of Jen the lactivist, personally. That said, I do agree with the gist of this blog.

[velcromom]

I disagree that it's an "alarming" development. I tend to think that it's a good sign in some respects, because we are seeing that more women are more aware of the issue, even if right now they aren't all interpreting things in an evenhanded way.

In any issues' progress, it often seems the pendulum has to swing a little farther than the mark before it settles into a balance. Instead of lecturing at women for "hurting the cause" which is only devisive, I would have liked to see a gentler more empathic tone taken - the cause is taking a typical course and we are all part of it - let's support each other to do the best we can.

[hollycat]

the radical side of any movement's job is to extend the pendulum PAST where others are comfortable to "create the space" for a new paradigm.
yes, it can backlash sometimes.

i personally have never understood the feeding anywhere, anytime "becasue its natural and your baby is hungry" without respect for circumstance positon.

going to the bathroom and personal hygene are totally normal, natural and necessary, yet we deligate spaces for those activities to take place.

i think its just a matter of respect given where the culture is now. do we want a culture where its easier to bf anywhere? possibly. to get that weve probably got to allow people to push boundries beyond comfort. do some of us want to use the nearest bathroom, whether its a mens or a womans, because its natural and fair? same thing.

[Swan3]

Originally Posted by velcromom

In any issues' progress, it often seems the pendulum has to swing a little farther than the mark before it settles into a balance. Instead of lecturing at women for "hurting the cause" which is only devisive, I would have liked to see a gentler more empathic tone taken - the cause is taking a typical course and we are all part of it - let's support each other to do the best we can.

:

[Ruthla]

I agree that the pendelum has to swing a little too far the other way before things balance out in the middle, but still we can point out when things go too far and we disagree with other lactivists!

[grniys]

That's a wonderful post. I absolutely agree with it. Thanks for sharing it!

[MommyofAngelBabies]

I think it was excellently written and it's nice to see some Lactivists who are normal and grounded, rather than radical. At least she was in this article. I haven't read her others, so can't comment on that.

[Swan3]

Originally Posted by MommyofAngelBabies

I think it was excellently written and it's nice to see some Lactivists who are normal and grounded, rather than radical. At least she was in this article. I haven't read her others, so can't comment on that.

I don't think it's fair to paint lactivists who wouldn't agree with her as not "normal" or "grounded". There are many kinds and leanings of lactivists, just as in anything else. When we characterize some lactivists as "unreasonable" or anything like it, it's negative and divisive.

[Momily]

As a former formula feeding mom I think that another aspect of asking for special attention for breastfeeding dyads, this is that people make breastfeeding seem like such a huge hassle.

I always knew that breastfeeding was the right choice whenever possible, I also assumed that if it were a viable option (which it wasn't for us) I would have done so, and it would have worked out just fine. Then I came to MDC and reading the posts here I think "wow, I could never have done that -- it's so much work".

Mamas here, who are advocating in the name of "lactivism" imply that if you breastfeed you're never going to be able to comfort your child any other way. That your child will never be able to go to sleep, or stay asleep without you right there. That your child will need to eat every few minutes and that you'll never be able to anticipate, even a moment in advance (long enough to get to the side of the pool, or remove yourself from the OR waiting room) when your child might need to eat.

Now as a formula feeding mom, I can tell you that I could do all of those things -- yes, my child was comforted by drinking a bottle snuggled in my arms, but if he wasn't thirsty there were plenty of other ways to comfort him. Yes, my child often fell asleep while drinking, but also sometimes in the stroller or carrier, or simply being rocked and sung to, and while he might have woken up to feed he also had periods of a couple hours when he was asleep and I could get up and take a shower. Yes, he was fed on demand, but he was also predictable enough that if I wanted to do something that was incompatible with bottle feeding (e.g. driving a car a short distance, playing an active game with an older child, fying bacon) I could simply wait until he'd just eaten and be confident that he wouldn't need to eat again for at least 30 minutes.

Luckily, I have many IRL friends who breastfed, and so from watching them I know that they can do all these things too -- but if I only listened to the lactivists here, I might assume that breastfeeding would consume my life and therefore decide to formula feed again with my second child.

[Ruthla]

Also keep in mind that people tend to post with problems on a message board- which can give an unrealistic idea of how hard something is. BFing boards are filled with latch problems and babies not gaining enough weight while FF boards are filled with babies who don't tolerate one formula or another or who need to try different kinds of bottles. Neither will give an 'outsider" an accurate idea of what this baby-feeding method is like "most of the time, for most moms."

[thismama]

Meh. I think we have to remember that a lot of laws and regulations have come about in an era of formula feeding and expressly have not considered or accommodated breastfeeding. So I think asking that these laws be re-evaluated to consider bf dyads is not unfair nor is it asking for 'special treatment.'

[BugMacGee]

Originally Posted by Momily

As a former formula feeding mom I think that another aspect of asking for special attention for breastfeeding dyads, this is that people make breastfeeding seem like such a huge hassle.

I always knew that breastfeeding was the right choice whenever possible, I also assumed that if it were a viable option (which it wasn't for us) I would have done so, and it would have worked out just fine. Then I came to MDC and reading the posts here I think "wow, I could never have done that -- it's so much work".

Mamas here, who are advocating in the name of "lactivism" imply that if you breastfeed you're never going to be able to comfort your child any other way. That your child will never be able to go to sleep, or stay asleep without you right there. That your child will need to eat every few minutes and that you'll never be able to anticipate, even a moment in advance (long enough to get to the side of the pool, or remove yourself from the OR waiting room) when your child might need to eat.

Now as a formula feeding mom, I can tell you that I could do all of those things -- yes, my child was comforted by drinking a bottle snuggled in my arms, but if he wasn't thirsty there were plenty of other ways to comfort him. Yes, my child often fell asleep while drinking, but also sometimes in the stroller or carrier, or simply being rocked and sung to, and while he might have woken up to feed he also had periods of a couple hours when he was asleep and I could get up and take a shower. Yes, he was fed on demand, but he was also predictable enough that if I wanted to do something that was incompatible with bottle feeding (e.g. driving a car a short distance, playing an active game with an older child, fying bacon) I could simply wait until he'd just eaten and be confident that he wouldn't need to eat again for at least 30 minutes.

Luckily, I have many IRL friends who breastfed, and so from watching them I know that they can do all these things too -- but if I only listened to the lactivists here, I might assume that breastfeeding would consume my life and therefore decide to formula feed again with my second child.

My (still BF'ing) DD was exactly like you describe. Couldn't eat any other way, Which became very tricky when I went back to work, Wouldn't sleep any other way, and still BF'ing is the only way to comfort her (though thankfully she's got the eating and sleeping bit down sans breast) Quite frankly, it sometimes was and sometimes is a PITA.

Don't get me wrong, I love BF'ing most of the time and advocate for it wholeheartedly. But there are just some places I couldn't feed my DD nor would I expect to ever be able to. Namely @ work.

[junipermuse]

Originally Posted by Momily

As a former formula feeding mom I think that another aspect of asking for special attention for breastfeeding dyads, this is that people make breastfeeding seem like such a huge hassle.

I always knew that breastfeeding was the right choice whenever possible, I also assumed that if it were a viable option (which it wasn't for us) I would have done so, and it would have worked out just fine. Then I came to MDC and reading the posts here I think "wow, I could never have done that -- it's so much work".

Mamas here, who are advocating in the name of "lactivism" imply that if you breastfeed you're never going to be able to comfort your child any other way. That your child will never be able to go to sleep, or stay asleep without you right there. That your child will need to eat every few minutes and that you'll never be able to anticipate, even a moment in advance (long enough to get to the side of the pool, or remove yourself from the OR waiting room) when your child might need to eat.

Now as a formula feeding mom, I can tell you that I could do all of those things -- yes, my child was comforted by drinking a bottle snuggled in my arms, but if he wasn't thirsty there were plenty of other ways to comfort him. Yes, my child often fell asleep while drinking, but also sometimes in the stroller or carrier, or simply being rocked and sung to, and while he might have woken up to feed he also had periods of a couple hours when he was asleep and I could get up and take a shower. Yes, he was fed on demand, but he was also predictable enough that if I wanted to do something that was incompatible with bottle feeding (e.g. driving a car a short distance, playing an active game with an older child, fying bacon) I could simply wait until he'd just eaten and be confident that he wouldn't need to eat again for at least 30 minutes.

Luckily, I have many IRL friends who breastfed, and so from watching them I know that they can do all these things too -- but if I only listened to the lactivists here, I might assume that breastfeeding would consume my life and therefore decide to formula feed again with my second child.

My daughter (especially when she was under a year) couldn't be comforted by me without a boob in her mouth. She didn't really eat any food at all until she was over a year. She still doesn't eat on a schedule but before she ate other food I always had to be available to nurse her when she was hungry. And she's a grazer so even if she had just eaten she might need to nurse again 5, 10 or 15 mins later. I spent a lot of time comparing my babe to the babies of ff friends and all it did was cause a lot of self doubt and heartache. That just wasn't how my baby and my body worked. My daughter was (and often still is) very high needs and the boobs need to be available ALL of the time. As a side note my dd seems to need the boobs as a way of connecting with me. She eats more food and goes long times without milk when she is being cared for by others, but when I'm there she NEEDS the boobs. Personally I'm insulted to be told by someone who hasn't breastfed that my breastfeeding relationship should be anything other than what it is/was. I'm sorry if it makes breastfeeding look inconvenient, but sometimes it is. Every baby is different, every breast feeding relationship is different. To me it is harmful to make rules that assume that all children's needs can be met in the exact same way. Also I don't believe "equality" is the real aim of lactivism. The purpose of Lactivism is to support and encourage as many women as possible to breastfeed their children, to help society see breastfeeding as the norm for feeding infants, to break down barriers to breastfeeding and to ensure our right to meet our child's needs through breastfeeding. Bottlefeeding and breastfeeding are very different and it belittles the importance and significance of breastfeeding to only seek "equality" with bottlefeeding.

[johnsmom]

Meh, Jen the Lactivist.
I don't want equal rights or special rights. I want (and have) different rights.
My rights as a nursing mother have NOTHING to do with bottlefeeding mothers. I'm getting pretty sick of reading about how I should consider whether a bottlefeeding mother would be allowed to feed her baby before I feed mine. I just don't care. The only consideration I will make is for my baby. If he's hungry (or tired,cranky,overwhelmed) I will nurse him. Anytime, anywhere.
Taking a baby or toddler to a bar/spa/casino because they are nursing is absurd. I would never, nor do I know anyone who would ever assume that becasue they are nursing they should be allowed to bring a baby to a place that is 'adults only'.

[syd'smom]

Originally Posted by johnsmom

Meh, Jen the Lactivist.
I don't want equal rights or special rights. I want (and have) different rights.
My rights as a nursing mother have NOTHING to do with bottlefeeding mothers. I'm getting pretty sick of reading about how I should consider whether a bottlefeeding mother would be allowed to feed her baby before I feed mine. I just don't care. The only consideration I will make is for my baby. If he's hungry (or tired,cranky,overwhelmed) I will nurse him. Anytime, anywhere.
Taking a baby or toddler to a bar/spa/casino because they are nursing is absurd. I would never, nor do I know anyone who would ever assume that becasue they are nursing they should be allowed to bring a baby to a place that is 'adults only'.

I agree - equality does not mean the same. Being fair does not mean the same. If you look at a lot of human rights cases, they are about being fair, not necessarily about being exactly the same.

Think of a woman wanting to get into the Military/RCMP/ Fire Department, they have different test result requirements than men, b/c most women are physically not able to compete with a man, so the tests/result requirements are changed so that it makes it possible for women to enter these professions (at least in Canada, I believe).

Every day students are given accomodations in their classrooms and for exams, to help accomodate different learning styles, abilities, etc. I've had students who had an aide read the exam to them and them write down the student's dictated answer. Another student could definitely say - well that's not fair, I want to have the exact same right/privilege/whatever - but unless there is a verified reason for the student to require that accomodation, then it doesn't happen.

Fair does not mean the same.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by hollycat

i personally have never understood the feeding anywhere, anytime "becasue its natural and your baby is hungry" without respect for circumstance positon.

going to the bathroom and personal hygene are totally normal, natural and necessary, yet we deligate spaces for those activities to take place.

i think its just a matter of respect given where the culture is now. do we want a culture where its easier to bf anywhere? possibly. to get that weve probably got to allow people to push boundries beyond comfort. do some of us want to use the nearest bathroom, whether its a mens or a womans, because its natural and fair? same thing.

I think it's really inappropriate to in any way make feeding a baby analogous to going to the bathroom. The ONLY thing you can compare breastfeeding to is other feeding methods. I've seen it compared to defecating, urinating, masturbating, having sex. Seeing it compared to dental hygiene is a new one. Still, it's a false analogy, made solely for shock value and not based on any sort of logic.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by MommyofAngelBabies

I think it was excellently written and it's nice to see some Lactivists who are normal and grounded, rather than radical. At least she was in this article. I haven't read her others, so can't comment on that.

I think we have plenty of normal, grounded Lactivists right here. I've seen some awesome changes made because of the efforts of this group of women.

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by johnsmom

Meh, Jen the Lactivist.
I don't want equal rights or special rights. I want (and have) different rights.
My rights as a nursing mother have NOTHING to do with bottlefeeding mothers. I'm getting pretty sick of reading about how I should consider whether a bottlefeeding mother would be allowed to feed her baby before I feed mine. I just don't care. The only consideration I will make is for my baby. If he's hungry (or tired,cranky,overwhelmed) I will nurse him. Anytime, anywhere.
Taking a baby or toddler to a bar/spa/casino because they are nursing is absurd. I would never, nor do I know anyone who would ever assume that becasue they are nursing they should be allowed to bring a baby to a place that is 'adults only'.

I'm confused. You are making the same argument she made but don't agree with her?