Wasn't sure how to title this one.

I had a pretty traumatic birth last time, it was a full induction at the hospital, just DH and I present (and in-laws in the hallway). Well the pitocin made the pain unbearable for me, the epidural then failed, and I ended up pushing a long time in lithotomy and having an episiotomy against my will, internal fetal monitor, then catheter afterwards- we were both terrified really. So this time around he thinks I will need an epidural and that will make everything OK. The failed epidural was no fun, but my biggest problems with my L&D last time were more the whole snowball effect of the induction and how one intervention led to another. I tried explaining to DH that the pitocin is probably what made it so unbearable to me and by avoiding an indution this time I can hpefully avoid all the other interventions that made the delivery so scary and painful. He bitingly told me that he was there last time and it was "a show" and obviously I already have my mind made up and he's no part of it. :(

This time around my friend will be there too as a labor assistant/patient advocate for me, I think DH is also feeling pushed aside or not as important because of this- like his support isn't enough.

If I can get him to listen to me, read, or watch something- does anyone have any suggestion for letting him know he's my number one labor support and I need him to be on board with the plan?

He called your traumatic labor and birth a "show"????!!!

The failed epidural was no fun, but my biggest problems with my L&D last time were more the whole snowball effect of the induction and how one intervention led to another. I tried explaining to DH that the pitocin is probably what made it so unbearable to me and by avoiding an indution this time I can hpefully avoid all the other interventions that made the delivery so scary and painful.

(bolding mine) This is what he needs to understand. Having an induction with pitocin is a whole different ball game, and if you can avoid that, there is a really good chance you will cope just fine with him and your friend supporting you.

Would he read The Birth Partner? Most libraries would have it.

I would try talking to him again when he is not feeling upset about it, and just say what you are saying to us: He is your number one support, and you care how he feels, but you need to be supported in the choices that are right for you. You want what is best for your baby.

*flame suit* He did let you down. His job is to protect you and even though he may not realise it on a concious level, he did not protect your birth space. Give him some time, it must've been hard to see you hurting, and he doesn't want to go through that again. There was a show rescently called "extreme mothering" and the guy sounded a lot like yours, he didn't understand turning down pain relief when it's available (I can't remember but I think it was in the part about orgasmic birth...I'll see if I can find the clip). It's hard for a guy to understand birth sometimes. I think you could compare it like this... if dh had a broken bone and was turning down pain relief you'd probably think he was nuts, right?


Ah, here's the orgasmic birth clip http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=6120045&page=1 (I know this is somewhat confrontation subject, I'm not saying go for an orgasmic birth, but I think they have some good points.)
Here's this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVf4rzam0Xo

Also I think you need to let him know he needs to be your body guard during birth. If you don't want to be in the lithotomy position (which often makes labour more painful) tell him it makes labour hurt and he needs to stand up for you on that. If you don't want the dr to cut you, tell dh so he can be on guard. Etc....

I'm guessing homebirth isn't an option, but just in case http://www.homebirth.org.uk/blokesven.htm

I'm sorry, I seem to be the only one having trouble following. What was a show? What exactly is in the birth plan that your DH objects to? What exactly is the basis of his objection? What have you made up your mind on? I followed all the way up until "I tried explaining to DH" but was lost from there.

I don't think he (or you) have communicated to find a clear role for him in labor. He resents that you're working out your plans separately from him. Guys need to know what they're doing otherwise yeah, it's like he's just there for show. If his job includes telling you affirming things in labor, talk to him about that. If it's providing counterpressure on your back and holding you up while you lean, discuss and demonstrate that. If it is protecting the birth space, preventing extraneous people from bothering you and stopping unagreed to interventions until they've been discussed and okayed, talk about that.

:hug
This post could just be me projecting. But it could very well apply to you.

He's scared. He knows he let you down on a fundamental level and he's possibly trying to get a "easy out." He's probably just as traumatized as you are (heck, if not more so because he was the observer) but he's a guy and can't/won't show it. He watched you suffer while a team of doctors, people in authority who "knew what they were doing," tried to "save" you and the baby.

He doesn't want to see you hurt, and can't understand why you would want to be in pain again. And he's probably terrified to see you like that again- hence he wants no part in hurting you. So, if you don't get the epidural, he's not going to be there to participate in your torture.

--That was basically my DH

I want to know what the guy means by "a show". An act you put on for some reason? (And if so - why?) A medical three-ring circus?

I think that the key here is that the way things went last time was not okay, and it is not acceptable to you that your next labor follow the same path. I mean - logic check - you had an epidural last time and it did not make everything okay (failed epis generally make things worse). You need for things to be different - you need someone to help translate from med-speak into English, someone who can get you a sandwich, someone who can help you stay home as long as possible (if that's what you want), someone who can help with counterpressure and other pain management techniques, so that your husband can focus on being the go-to guy for YOUR emotional and physical support without running dangerously low himself.

I am guessing by "a show", he is meaning a fiasco.

Also I think you need to let him know he needs to be your body guard during birth.

Hmm, how would he react to being told his job is to protect you and be your bodyguard? I know if I had a female partner who was giving birth, I would be terrified to hear that that was my job!

Is there any way you could get him to take Bradley classes with you? If not, ask him to read Husband Coached Childbirth by Dr. Bradley. My husband was my birth coach, and my Mom was there to be HIS birth assistant. She ended up doing A LOT, but because he saw her as his helper he felt confident in making decisions, defending my choices, supporting me, and even ordering my Mom around! :o) I was induced and my original all natural birth plan got a little screwed up, it was very hard for me to process and I was depressed for quite a while (though, thank God, dd was born vaginally!). Next time, we're doing a birth center...he agreed with me that the problem was the doctor, the induction, the whole "pregnancy is a disease we need to cure" mindset.
I don't know if any of that is helpful, but just try to get dh involved, I really think taking the Bradley classes was a HUGE turning point for my dh, he loved being my coach and was so proud of me and him, we were a team, you know? Good luck mama!

Hmm, how would he react to being told his job is to protect you and be your bodyguard? I know if I had a female partner who was giving birth, I would be terrified to hear that that was my job!

Sorry, may not work for everybody. My dh knows it's his job, I believe partners should learn how to protect the birth space. Somebody needs to do it. Michel Odent has written a great piece talking about how important it is for mothers not to be disturbed.
At that moment when the laboring woman is ready to shift into another level of consciousness, go off to another planet as M. Odent says, any stimulation to the neocortex will hold her back and prolong the labor.
http://www.schooloflife.org/sy/natureofbirthandbreastfeedin.htm

I agree with the other ladies. I think subconsciously your DH knows he let you down, so he is lashing out at the idea of someone else taking the job that he couldn't do. Regardless of his stance, it's still your birth and you deserve to have someone there who will support you. I'm sorry he's being such a butt about this. :hug

This looks promising http://www.icea.org/blog/fathers-roles-birth
http://www.birthingfromwithin.com/fathering_from_within

I ordered Husband-Coached Childbirth and The Birth Partner from the library and they're ready for pickup already today! Its going to take some time, but luckily I'm due in April so have some time to work on it. :-) I think its a matter of feeling like he failed or didn't do something right last time. that was mostly lack of preparation on our part, but it wasn't that we didn't attend a 6-week birth course at the hospital or that we didn't read books- he also read The Expectant Father, I think its more that neither of us was ready for a full-blown induction and all the interventions that might ensue thereafter. The "standard books" like What to Expect when You're Expecting and whatnot are somewhat informative and educational, but also gloss over a lot of things. It was looking into his face needing support and seeing fear/panic there that was my undoing. So we both failed on some level. My goal is to avoid that this time by doing lots more research and reading, affirmations, yoga and other strengthening exercises, keeping up on my kegels, preparing a better environment with music, aromatherapy, and homeopathics on hand, having a friend there as an advocate/helper, laboring at home as long as possible (even if waters break), refusing induction or at the very least pitocin, laboring in different positions, refusing pain meds (in order to remain up and about and labor and delivery in a position besides lithotomy). I know, its a whole laundry list isn't it? In order to accomplish all this I need to have some pretty fabulous support- a natural birth in a hospital isn't the easiest thing to achieve admittedly.

So resources to show that birth is OK, that it can be done without pain meds, even better that it can be turned around and one bad birth experience doesn't mean two bad birth experiences, that his role is integral in my success. So probably pride hurts that things didn't go so great, that he failed me in some way, fear at seeing me in lots of pain again, and much like me- fear that we will be unable to stop the medical machine for lack of a better term.

"That was a show" might be a regional terminology, yes it means a fiasco. We thought I was going to "bite the big one".

PLEASE look into hypnobabies. It has a wonderful birth partner guide, tons of information for both you and dh and a fear release program for you to use to help you manage your issues from your previous birth. I had a traumatic 1st birth and a wonderful 2nd due to hypnobabies. I really think it will help your dh a great deal. www.hypnobabies.com

Edit - Whoops! Sorry, I missed your update.

Sounds like you are totally on the right track. Keep the guy involved and make sure to listen to his fears, but don't be afraid to be assertive with him either. Both of the books you got at the library are great!

Also, I totally back what Imagine21 says about Hypnobabies. My DH and I just finished it, and it was *wonderful*. Not only did we learn a lot, but I really believe it's brought us so much closer together. But no matter what kind of class you take (I've heard good things about some Bradley classes, too) make sure it's being taught by a good teacher. Your tribal area would be a good place to ask about reputable instructors, if you decide to take a class.

Check out www.dona.org. They have some articles on how a doula helps the father to stay involved, which may help him understand that you are using your friend to make everyone's part more enjoyable. Also, they are short, so you aren't trying to get a whole book in him at once!

Having a doula at my last birth made my husband so much more comfortable because he really didn't know how to support me the first time, and our doula was really good at keeping him busy and involved (without stressing me out!).

You have lots of time and that is great that you are thinking about this early.

Your DH doesn't sound very sensitive, but mostly he just sounds like this was traumatic for him too, and he doesn't know how to voice that, since you were the one who was really hurt by the experience. It is hard for them when they can't fix everything right away!

Yes, how about a doula rather than your friend? Perhaps he feels he is being replaced by her. You know men need to fix whatever the problem is. He wasn't able to last time and is probably feeling very defensive about it. A doula is there to help both of you and she has been through it all. My DH found this very helpful. He was previously of the mindset that pain meds are avialable so of course utilize them. He was also very insecure about his ability to help me and to be confident that we could get through whatever pain was going on. Doula was INVALUABLE!!

I also third the hypnobabies rec. I loved it. Part of the program also is daily affirmations which help immensely. And there is a CD to help you deal with fear, which you obviously would have as a result of the first birth. Helps you deal with it and move on.

The book I found the most invaluable for dealing with DH's fears/issues was Henci Goer's Guide to Childbirth. There is so much data in there about the cascade of interventions, which is exactly what you are (and I was) trying to avoid.

I'm gonna have to be a voice of dissent on the Hypnobabies recommendation. While it was awesome for me, it really didn't help my dh. Now he wasn't exactly faithful about doing his cd and whatnot, but I also get the impression that that isn't uncommon.

I will agree that he's probably afraid after what happened last time. We had to transfer from a FSBC, and later he said when I was asking the midwife later if I'd have the same problem at another birth he was thinking "There's no way I'm putting you through that again"

I'm so glad you got your hands on The Husband Coached Birth -- my DH says it is by far the best resource he's read. After reading that book, he has totally embraced his role as a birthing partner and is really looking forward to his role during labor. He also thought the whole natural birth choice made so much more sense after reading that book -- for some reason, the section discussing animals giving birth really clicked for him???

Ditto to PP re: Hypnobabies. While I've gotten a lot out of it, my DH hasn't at all. It just does not click with him. I just tell him some of the Hypnobabies techniques and we incorporate them into the relaxation exercies DH and I do based on the Bradley book.

HTH -- Good luck!!

I would absolutely second a pp's recommendation of Birthing From Within - the books or the classes - I think they can complement both the Bradley and Birth Partner books. The book "Birthing From Within" has a pretty accessible chapter just for fathers/partners.

If there is a BFW mentor in your area who teaches "Birthin' Again", that might also be a perfect class to help both of you to feel confident in yourselves and each other and to help him work through any unresolved issues from your first birth. It is a shorter class for parents who need a refresher to prepare and/or work through stuff from earlier birth(s).

(Full disclosure: I took BFW as an expectant parent and both my partner and I found much of it it so helpful, I am now working on becoming a mentor).

I know there are mentors in Virginia. You can find BFW mentors at the website: http://www.birthingfromwithin.com/teachers

It can be very frustrating when you think you've done all you can to prepare for birth and then it doesn't go like it should...and then you find out it could've been different if you'd known more.

I too read "what to expect ..." many times and took the hospital course. I really feel they did nothing to prepare me for natural childbirth. It wasn't until pg #2 that I read Henci's book "the thinking woman's guide to better childbirth" and then tons of other books and watched some good birth movies. Keep reading, keep talking with dh :)

Big hugs! I feel like the partners who observe traumatic births have a huge well of their own pain, but no good places to discuss it or work through it. I know I've been in ICAN meetings where a mother talks about how her partner is not in favor of a vbac because of how the previous birth went, or where a partner breaks down and reveals just how deeply they still hurt as a result of the trauma inflicted on them as well by the birth. It's a hard thing to address, especially in a culture where partners are often expected to keep feelings hidden or be able to "fix" things or be "protectors". I know it took my DH a year or two to really work through the emotions and fears raised by dd1's birth...

I did do hypnobabies for my vbac with dd2 and here's the thing... DH wasn't really involved in any of the prep work. He didn't do the cds, he didn't read the scripts, and I didn't expect him to/want him to. Hypnobabies was for me so that I could better experience my birth and avoid interventions. And because I felt more calm and comfortable it helped DH relax too. So the program was great (and we'll be doing it again) but mostly because it helped ME remain calm and focused and let DH see that I really wasn't in "pain" or needing to be "fixed". So that's another way to think about it.

And while I feel you should have whatever birth support you want/need, I agree that maybe a doula would be better for birth support. We're planning a homebirth this time and still plan on including a doula to support dh during the birth. Seriously, I've had a doula for each birth and we were very clear that we wanted her to help dh help me. She didn't replace him in any way, but she was able to remind him of the things I wanted, help him find the best support positions (for counterpressure, for supported squatting, for acupressure foot rubs), fetch things we'd left in different rooms or out in the car, support me for a few minutes while he went to the bathroom or got a snack or splashed water on his face. Basically she supported me by empowering DH, and she also took some of the pressure off DH... he didn't have to remember everything and be everywhere. He could just experience the birth of his babe along with me.

It's great that you have a few months to work through this together with your partner... and great that you're both open to having this sort of conversation! I hope he comes to support you in the ways you need and that you have a wonderful birth. :)

The "standard books" like What to Expect when You're Expecting and whatnot are somewhat informative and educational, but also gloss over a lot of things.
Yup, well if "what to expect" is anythign like "The Mayo Clinic's Guide to Pregnancy" I'd say, when it comes to birth, it's a rag fit only for kindling. Basically, it tells nothing of teh "truth" about the medical birth machine & trains women to be blindly trust their docs. :irked:

I know, its a whole laundry list isn't it? In order to accomplish all this I need to have some pretty fabulous support- a natural birth in a hospital isn't the easiest thing to achieve admittedly.


:yeah: BINGO! Exactly! Yup. IN order to accomplish a natural birth, you MUST have the right setting - & most hospitals do tons of things to make it MORE difficult. :irked: Like continuous EFM (so your movement is restricted & you can't shower / get in a bathtub) & "nothing by mouth" so you're hooked to an IV & can't eat or drink. PLEASE PLEASE, if these are standards at your hospital, try to switch to a HB, birth center, or at least more natural-birth-friendly hospital. (They exist!) Life will only be more difficult otherwise.

Anyway, I highly recommend, "The Thinking Woman Guides to a Better Birth" as the #1 book. Basically, DH & I used to think, "Sure get the epi! Why feel pain if you don't have to?" But it was that book that taught me the real truth. DH & I were both totally 100% on board for natural birth. It was after that that we set about trying to figure out HOW (switched to CNMs & took Bradley Training.)

So, sounds like you've got some good books already. But I think it's important your DH understands the "why" of non-medicalized birth to help him get on board with the plan. The book "Business of Being Born" helps tell teh 'why' also.

Good luck!!

So we both failed on some level. My goal is to avoid that this time by doing lots more research and reading, affirmations, yoga and other strengthening exercises, keeping up on my kegels, preparing a better environment with music, aromatherapy, and homeopathics on hand, having a friend there as an advocate/helper, laboring at home as long as possible (even if waters break), refusing induction or at the very least pitocin, laboring in different positions, refusing pain meds (in order to remain up and about and labor and delivery in a position besides lithotomy). I know, its a whole laundry list isn't it? In order to accomplish all this I need to have some pretty fabulous support- a natural birth in a hospital isn't the easiest thing to achieve admittedly.


Be kind to yourself, you don't need to think of it as having failed. It sounds like you are going in much better prepared this time.

Although it is too hippie for some, I really love the birth stories in Spiritual Midwifery by Ina May Gaskin. The stories really give good examples of how partners were able to be supportive in labor, and also times when emotional or communication issues needed to be worked through by the couple. Used copies are cheap online.

Given the kind of birth you want, I would strongly, strongly encourage you to explore the option of birthing with a midwife, either at home or in a free standing birth center.

Henci Goer's "the thinking woman's guide to a better birth" talks about both sides (good and bad) of almost all (if not all) interventions out there. Talks about pitocin, epidural, etc. I think after reading that, it may make it easier for him to understand where you are coming from, and realizing that natural birth is not as painful/traumatic as a managed and intervention-full induction.

I'm sure my husband would react just like yours if faced with the same experience. When in a hospital setting, we are all (or most of us) like sheep following the dr's instructions and demands. Most of us would not challenge their position of power. I'm sure your dr said everything that was done to you and your baby was necessary, so who is your DH to disagree with the trained professional. And after seeing what that put you through, I could understand why he feels the way he does.

The first step would be for him to understand what was done to you, what that did to alter you experience, and how that deviates from a natural birth. Next would be to understand what he went through. And last would be to get together and agree on how to handle things the next time around.


Good luck!! :joy: I hope you and hubby are able to work something out that will leave you both feeling safe and secure! :thumb

It was looking into his face needing support and seeing fear/panic there that was my undoing.

I can really relate to this. During my last birth, I really wanted support and intimacy, and although my husband believed in what we were doing (UC), it was very hard to see me in labour. I would look at him wanting kisses and love, and he would be grimacing and pitying me. he did NOT read The Birth Partner, and I think it would have helped a lot.

it may not have been mentioned, but The Business of Being Born has a great section on how hospital births turn into a "cascade of interventions." while it is a pro-midwifery care film, i think it is a great way for people to learn about birth options in general, the history of hospital birth, etc.

i recommend it to a lot of folks--whether they're planning a HB or a hospital birth. for one of my friends, the film cleared up a lot of her misconceptions and prepared her and her husband for a great, parent-centered (rather than doctor-centered) hospital birth. they were able to create the birth that they wanted in the hospital! she ultimately had an epidural, but that was it for her whole birth--she labored about 12 hrs and had her baby just after the epidural wore off. she said it was a great experience!

good luck with everything. i'm sure he'll come around. he has to heal from the trauma of the birth too, afterall. :)

We did Bradley and I have to say I think it is the best for getting one's dh on board. My dh was all for medical interventions rather than ncb because he thought it would be less painful. The Bradley classes really changed his mind on that, and they opened him up to other learning experiences, like watching the Business of Being Born. He never did read much, though, and this seems to be common to a lot of spouses, so I would not recommend trying to change his mind that way. :eyesroll

He never did read much, though, and this seems to be common to a lot of spouses, so I would not recommend trying to change his mind that way. :eyesroll

Good point. Although I personally spent many hours on the sofa with birth books & would recite facts to DH often. :) While he didn't often pick up books himself, he was always happy to listen to me ramble on about what I'd read. He also became totally pro-NCB after my reading of "Thinking Woman's Guide" & subsequent recitation of facts.