Anyone else read his speech on education and cringe? I'm growing increasingly worried about protecting our homeschooling rights.

http://www.educationrevolution.org/obama.html

I'm particularly concerned about his comments in the 31st and 32nd paragraphs where he compares students in America to children in South Korea, where children spend over a month more in class. He is suggesting that Americans adopt a similar school schedule that calls for longer days and more months in school.

He also highly stresses accountability and records of a student's progress from early childhood on up.

This is concerning me greatly. I'd love to hear from other homeschoolers here who have read this and can reassure me a little :)

The only thing I can say, is I watched a recent speech he made and specifically mentioned maintaining a parent's right to homeschool.

Ok, that definitely makes me feel better. Thank you.

Still, I wonder why politicians always assume that more institutionalized education is what we need, with more accountability (testing). Don't they have access to the same books, articles, and studies we do that show that early formal academics do not help children learn any better than their peers who are ecouraged to read for pleasure and pursue their own interests (play)?

I just don't get it. The "No Child Left Behind" was really instrumental in making sure that "No Child Gets Ahead" in public school, at least. And now we have someone who wants to further keep children away from their families by imposing longer school days in longer school years with quite possibly more homework assignments that require a child to spend more time with their tutor and less time figuring out what interests/motivates them.

I guess it will come down to even more of a divide between the children who are free and those who have to put in even longer, and harder, meaningless hours into institutionalized schooling.

The only thing I can say, is I watched a recent speech he made and specifically mentioned maintaining a parent's right to homeschool.

And he mentions that basic right in one of his books. - Lillian

Lillian, I'm glad you're here! Does he go into details in his book (and do you remember which title)?

Lillian, I'm glad you're here! Does he go into details in his book (and do you remember which title)?

Yes - Lauradbg mentioned it the other day:
Obama gets it--not to worry:

On page 344 of The Audacity of Hope, he writes: “none of these policies need discourage families from deciding to keep a parent at home…For some families, that may mean doing without certain material comforts. For others it may mean home schooling….Whatever the case may be, such decisions should be honored.”

Now I really need to get back to work here! I'm stuck on a procrastination jag this week! - Lillian

Still, I wonder why politicians always assume that more institutionalized education is what we need, with more accountability (testing). Don't they have access to the same books, articles, and studies we do that show that early formal academics do not help children learn any better than their peers who are ecouraged to read for pleasure and pursue their own interests (play)?



I wonder that too and especially in this case, since I just expect better of President Obama. I also wonder why it's automatically assumed that it's longer school hours and terms that make those students (in this case South Korea, but sometimes it's Japan, sometimes it's Germany...) more competitive. And it's not like all is rosy in those other countries where kids are spending so much time in school.

I can't speak to homeschooling but I have a different issue with his recent speeches more regionally motivated. I hear him talk a lot about merit based teacher pay. Here in Florida we have a standardized testing system called the FCAT. It is horrible and the main reason my child isn't in public school. It is supposedly a tool for teacher and school accountability but what it boils down to is that the schools with the best grades on this test get the most funding. Naturally this puts a lot of emphasis on this test and the entire school year, even for elementary school kids, is taught around this freaking test. It really disgusts me and as much as I love Obama it kind of gives me the heebie jeebies when he talks about "merit based teacher pay". It sounds like a great idea on the surface but I fear he has been talking to our governor, ole Charlie Christ, and that standardized tests will become more of a way to measure a teacher/school's worth. :(

I'm sick of schools teaching to a test. That's not education. That's short term memorization. We need to get away from the, "Tests are the solution!" mindset.

But up here in Michigan where we are stymied by a very strong teacher's union, lots of parents LOVE the idea of merit based pay.

So I don't know what the answer is aside from broad deconstuction and rebuilding.

I can't speak to homeschooling but I have a different issue with his recent speeches more regionally motivated. I hear him talk a lot about merit based teacher pay. Here in Florida we have a standardized testing system called the FCAT. It is horrible and the main reason my child isn't in public school. It is supposedly a tool for teacher and school accountability but what it boils down to is that the schools with the best grades on this test get the most funding. Naturally this puts a lot of emphasis on this test and the entire school year, even for elementary school kids, is taught around this freaking test. It really disgusts me and as much as I love Obama it kind of gives me the heebie jeebies when he talks about "merit based teacher pay". It sounds like a great idea on the surface but I fear he has been talking to our governor, ole Charlie Christ, and that standardized tests will become more of a way to measure a teacher/school's worth. :(

Unfortunately, all the states (that I know of) employ some kind of test like FCAT for evals since NCLB. That said, how do you suppose they should measure what the kids are learning? Unfortunately, some kind of test would be needed...it's just not like homeschooling when it's pretty obvious how someone is doing, kwim? I wonder if it would be better, to keep the kids who are ahead from being dragged down, and htose behind from getting further behind, to do like the old days and divide classes by ability in subjects? I hate that they have to teach to the slowest. Also, maybe they need to hone in on exactly WHY/HOW Massachusetts is doing so well in science and apply it across the board...kwim? They have the same length school year and days as everyone else. Actually, I think they even have a 6 hour school, shorter than the 7 hour days for those above the elementary level here in Florida. I know when I went to school in MA and NY and then moved to Florida, it was like a joke. I went to a "top" high school here and was bored out of my mind. When I moved here in March of the school year, they were doing what I did in chemistry in October. Literally. So yeah, there is a problem!

But I digress. LOL. Let's just keep homeschooling! :P

Yes, the merit-based pay for teachers is in the speech too. And of course, the merit is based on test scores. And standardized testing is a major reason why we choose to homeschool as well. My children have better things to do with their time than spend 35 hours per week subjected to the teaching of these tests.

I'm so grateful to be homeschooling, and grateful that Obama honors homeschooling as well, but my alarm goes off when our children are asked to spend more time in such a flawed system.

Wow. I had wondered about how this admin. is going to look at homeschooling. Hope, hope, hope he is not going to let anything scale back our rights to that.

With the longer hours and longer school years and teaching to tests stuff, just, ugh.

I don't believe for a minute that with extra hours in ps, my son would be finishing second grade before age 6. Just wouldn't happen. He'd be stuck in some "special" class, "learning" stuff he already knows, bored to death. :irked: And he has finished 2nd grade with not more than 2 full hours of school a day. And he's not a genius IQ, either. Just a normal, bright kid who took to home learning naturally. I'd rather have him excell that way than under high pressure for long hours for the next 18 years. :cold:

Unfortunately, all the states (that I know of) employ some kind of test like FCAT for evals since NCLB. That said, how do you suppose they should measure what the kids are learning? Unfortunately, some kind of test would be needed...it's just not like homeschooling when it's pretty obvious how someone is doing, kwim? I wonder if it would be better, to keep the kids who are ahead from being dragged down, and htose behind from getting further behind, to do like the old days and divide classes by ability in subjects? I hate that they have to teach to the slowest. Also, maybe they need to hone in on exactly WHY/HOW Massachusetts is doing so well in science and apply it across the board...kwim? They have the same length school year and days as everyone else. Actually, I think they even have a 6 hour school, shorter than the 7 hour days for those above the elementary level here in Florida. I know when I went to school in MA and NY and then moved to Florida, it was like a joke. I went to a "top" high school here and was bored out of my mind. When I moved here in March of the school year, they were doing what I did in chemistry in October. Literally. So yeah, there is a problem!

But I digress. LOL. Let's just keep homeschooling! :P

Yeah, well, when I went to school we had standardized tests but it was just something you did, not something you crammed for the entire year. I can understand high school or college age kids "cramming" for tests but the idea of elementary age kids doing this really upsets me. I don't know the answer myself but the politics of only giving schools that score well funding seems like a corrupt way of handling it for starters. I know, I know...in this economy there isn't a lot to go around but that seems like a piss poor way to decide who gets the money. Hell, if it were my decision I would say that the schools with the poorest scores should get the most funding.

Hell, if it were my decision I would say that the schools with the poorest scores should get the most funding.

:yeah:

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening though.

Wow. I had wondered about how this admin. is going to look at homeschooling. Hope, hope, hope he is not going to let anything scale back our rights to that.

It will remain a state issue - it doesn't involve federal funding. - Lillian

Yeah, well, when I went to school we had standardized tests but it was just something you did, not something you crammed for the entire year. I can understand high school or college age kids "cramming" for tests but the idea of elementary age kids doing this really upsets me.

And that's a concern the president has addressed - there will apparently be some sort of reforms in the way assessment of teaching is done. I sure wish we could be on a committee to work on all this. ;) - Lillian

Yeah, well, when I went to school we had standardized tests but it was just something you did, not something you crammed for the entire year. I can understand high school or college age kids "cramming" for tests but the idea of elementary age kids doing this really upsets me.


Exactly. We had tests 30 years ago when I was in elementary school but the whole dang year didn't revolve around them. It's a shocking way to educate children but sometimes we learned things that weren't even on the test. :eyesroll

It will remain a state issue - it doesn't involve federal funding. - Lillian

Well, that means either way the state of Florida is screwed. :eyesroll

And that's a concern the president has addressed - there will apparently be some sort of reforms in the way assessment of teaching is done. I sure wish we could be on a committee to work on all this. ;) - Lillian



I keep thinking the same thing- we could do it so much better!

I think Obama means well but the biggest roadblock I see is this concept of competition. I'm sick to death of hearing about how we need to be more competitive in science in math to compete in a global market. Whatever happened to play? I guess kids have no time for that anymore because from the time they are in preschool we are supposed to prepare them for some grand plan that makes America superior to all other countries. I think it's a bunch of crap. Let kids be kids and ultimately decide what they want to do with their own lives, science and math or not.

Don't get me wrong, I love Obama, but it sickens me to see him falling for this same rhetoric we've heard over and over.

Personally, I'd be more likely to go for a longer school year if we had shorter school days. Cripe, if we had half days as an option, I'd even be willing to think about year round school.

I feel like somewhere, we all got confused about the purpose school was supposed to serve. It's not a jobs program. It's not childcare for older kids. It's school, period.

I would be very supportive of efforts to institute gov't funded childcare, or push for childcare subsidies, but I think we need to be clear about that not being a part of education reform. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority in this.

Exactly. I'm not against government subsidies per se. I'm against the fact that all of this is riding on standardized tests and pushing early academics in pre K. I don't see this in the child's best interests.

I am so sick of hearing this kind of thing too - how more hours and more curriculum will make our students more competitive. I tend to side more with Fareed Zakariah on this one. He talks about the great strength of the U.S. education system--which is being phased out by all this standardized testing--being that it values creativity, risk-taking and problem solving. He points out that many nations with "better outcomes - usually test scores" don't necessarily produce students who can think on their own, but more often produce students who have crammed and memorized a set curriculum of facts and processes. (He specifically compared his education in India to his education in the U.S.).

His concern for the U.S. is my concern too - that all these standardized tests and standardized curricula are going to lead to even worse outcomes than we have now. But the scores might look better!

Don't get me wrong, I love Obama, but it sickens me to see him falling for this same rhetoric we've heard over and over.

It's hard, because look where he and his wife both got from hard academic work within the system. His mom used to get him up way before dawn to tutor him, and he said that when he grumbled, she'd say, "Look, buster, I'm not enjoying this so much either!" He's said quite passionately that he wants school children to get the things they're missing now, though - music and art and all the rest of the good stuff for enjoying life - rather than just grinding through the stupid test-prep nonsense. It will be "interesting" to see things unfold. - Lillian

I tend to side more with Fareed Zakariah on this one.

I love that man! - do you have a link to anything on this? - Lillian

It's hard, because look where he and his wife both got from hard academic work within the system. His mom used to get him up way before dawn to tutor him, and he said that when he grumbled, she'd say, "Look, buster, I'm not enjoying this so much either!" He's said quite passionately that he wants school children to get the things they're missing now, though - music and art and all the rest of the good stuff for enjoying life - rather than just grinding through the stupid test-prep nonsense. It will be "interesting" to see things unfold. - Lillian


Oh, I know. I first found his story touching but now I'm beginning to tire of it as its used to push an agenda. As you say, I know he believes in the importance of music and arts and programs for inner cities as well so we'll have to just be cautious and see how it unfolds.

:lurk:

The only thing I can say, is I watched a recent speech he made and specifically mentioned maintaining a parent's right to homeschool.

There are a lot of people who think that more oversight of homeschoolers is a good idea, and don't think that oversight is stepping on a parent's right to homeschool. They believe that the goverment has a right to make sure the kids are being educated. I really don't trust politicians unless they spell out exactly what they mean. Requiring the same test of homeschoolers that are required of schools would make sense to many people.



It will remain a state issue - it doesn't involve federal funding. - Lillian

but education used to be a state issue. Until No Child Left Behind, the feds didn't demand standardized test. Each states could chose to use them or not. Now, ever state is required to use a standarized test. Because we've already started down the path of the feds telling the states what to do about education, how much more of a leap would it really be for the feds to force the states to require homeschoolers to take the standardized tests?

Please don't mistake my remarks to mean that I think that homeschoolers should be required to take standardized test, (I don't even like them for schooled children) just that I think we may see a move in that direction.

I also think there is a chunk of the homeschooling community that will happily go down that path, esp. if they are given financial incentives.

Face it, does anything Obama has ever said lead you to believe that he sees value in children being allowed to unfold naturally? That learning can happen when things are being taught? That learning is natural or joyful? That he thinks that American parents, overall, are doing a good job raising their kids?

There are a lot of people who think that more oversight of homeschoolers is a good idea, and don't think that oversight is stepping on a parent's right to homeschool. They believe that the goverment has a right to make sure the kids are being educated.

Constitutionally?

As far as testing homeschoolers goes...until I was one, it made total sense that they should be tested. It depends on how you view things. Don't kids have a natural right to education? Not all homeschoolers are necessarily getting a good one (and neither are schooled kids, of course). But, if you consider it a child's right to be educated vs the parent's right to educate them as they please...you get two totally different points of view and sets of solutions, kwim? One would make testing obvious, to ensure parents' are providing what is rightfully the child's (just as a child has a right to safe home, food, etc), whereas the other would make testing contrary to the parent's right to teach what they see fit. I'm not for testing bc I don't want to deal with it; however, I also know I am teaching my kids well and they would pass any kind of testing with flying colors.

Constitutionally?

Lots of people don't believe they could encroach on homeschooling. This wonderful essay (http://www.hsc.org/essaybygreenberg.html) by an appellate attorney on the legality of California private-school homeschooling covers quite a bit of the Constitutional aspect - very interesting. Lillian

I don't see how legislation could ever pass for hs in ANY state that could come close to the all children left behind nonsense unless they had the funding to enforce it.As it is now my states on a pretty tight budget.To be honest they should be sending me a letter of congratulations;In the last 19 years I've saved them over 336,000$ if you figure it at 6000 per year per student.

Constitutionally?

There's nothing in the constitution to back up No Child Left Behind, having a national drinking age, or a lot of other stuff the feds come up with. The constitution only grants the fed. governement the right to collect taxes during war. Read the constitution sometime while really thinking about what is going on with our government.

They could tell the states that they will cut of funding if they don't regulate the homeschoolers they way the feds want them to. The states would just do it. Just because homeschoolers don't get funding doesn't mean that the feds wouldn't stoop to cut off funding for other things.

Also, there's a really really big difference between saying that homeschooling will be allowed and that homeschoolers will be allowed to educate their children as they see fit. Big difference, esp for a lot of us on this board.