GD for a one year old, revisited

[famousmockngbrd]

FTR: he's 14 months now.

Really, I think Cole is just too young for GD, and the whole concept of "discipline" in general. I don't need to point out (but will anyway ;)) that kids his age are creatures of the moment, and they are just developmentally incapable of practicing self-restraint. So basically I feel that my job right now is to keep him from hurting himself, or anyone else, or anyone else's property (as much as possible). Otherwise he is free to explore and experiment as much as he wants to, and he does.

My problem is that sometimes I have to "make" him do something he doesn't want to. Yes, I "make" him. I don't want to, but I do. I **always** try to distract him, or make it fun, or engage his cooperation somehow. But sometimes that doesn't work and I have to change his diaper - get in the car - wash his face etc. so I just do it, under protest. :rolleyes: I seriously don't know what choice I have. I can't let him just wear the poopy diaper - he'll get a rash. Or, we're in the parking lot at the supermarket and I'm supposed to pick up DH in 10 minutes, and Cole doesn't want to get in the car seat. He's too young for "do you want to wear the frogs or the dinosaurs", or "after you get in the car seat, we'll pick up Daddy and go to the park" etc. I try toys and songs and little games, etc. but sometimes I have to just wrestle him into the seat and hold him there until he stops arching his back and I can buckle him in, screaming the whole time. (Him, not me.) I am patient, usually - I don't yell, or threaten - I tell him "I know you don't want to get in the car seat now, but we have to leave" - not the greatest explanation, I know. :rolleyes:

Here is the thing - it is his nature right now to want to assert his will, to see if he can make things happen, to express his wants. His wants seem very intense to him right now, and he can't tell the difference between what he wants and what he needs. Add to that his limited ability to even understand cause and effect, let alone abstract concepts like time. I respect that, and I try to take it into account as much as possible, but sometimes I have to hold him down and wipe his poopy butt while he screams. I do not feel like this is very "GD" of me but I really wonder what other options I have.

[Laurel]

I've been thinking a lot about this same topic in regards to my 17-month-old--I'm so glad you brought it up. If my ds had his way, he would *never* get his diaper changed, get dressed, get baby oil put on (which is a must because his skin is really dry), get washed, or a myriad of other necessities. I do try distraction, pleasantness, and to make the situation as fun as possible, but I too have found that most often the best thing to do is just get the deed done as fast as possible. I remember reading in The Baby Book a little rhyme that Dr Sears' family used to make getting your face washed fun. So I tried it on my ds--it just made him madder! Some days, like today, I just want to scream because of the constant tantrums (not just related to these tasks, but just in general). It seems like most of the books and ideas are more geared for older children. I too would love to hear suggestions for dealing with a toddler who can't (though he wants desperately to) express his needs verbally and who of course can't reason. I too feel like I'm being un-gentle and like there is more power struggle in our house than I would like. My ds is pretty spirited, so that adds to the situation. I don't have any advice, but I can definitely relate!

[famousmockngbrd]

I knew I couldn't be the only one. :D

[hipumpkins]

You know it's so funny I was going to psot somehting very similiar. My DD is 14 mos, also. I was also wondering about being gentle VS. getting the job done. She is actaully still very easy going about most things but she does not want to get into that car seat for anything.
BTW...for face and hand washing I let her do it herself. She loves holding her hands under the faucet and rubbing them together. I take her wet hands and show her how to do her face. She loves it! For diaper changes we play peek aboo with ablanket...I'm sure you've already tired that thoguh.

[ctdoula]

Oh my, I'm in the same boat with my 18 month old dd! She's very easy going, but I also finding myself forcing her sometimes (diaper changes, clipping nails). How do you reason with someone this age? Like teeth brushing? I don't want to force her, I've let her do it, but she really isn't interested. I don't want them to rot, LOL.

I can't wait to hear the replies from some BTDT mamas!!
Amy

[scoutycat]

Dd is also 14 mos, and also figures she should have her way always ;) I've found backing off for a minute often helps. If she really howls when I go to change her or put her in the car, I just stop for a minute and maybe actually physically take a step back. In the car, sometimes it's bc she's sleepy and wants a comfort suck, so I'll nurse her a minute or 2 in the front seat. If I can identify what's really going on, then I can often improve upon the situation (ie, make sure an interesting to/snack/bottle is available, clothes are all tucked in properly etc.). We still have to get in the car, and we don't take much of a break maybe 5 minutes tops, but somehow the effort to just slow things down and focus on her a minute helps. I also have made a really serious effort to make sure her needs are met in the car - I keep a supply of snacks & toys with me in the front and hand them to her if she loses hers, and keep music she likes on. We live in the country, so any trip is likely to be at least 15-20 minutes, comfort counts big time!! I was maybe a little slow on the uptake, since she'd always fall asleep when she was little, and I didn't realize how much more aware and hungry/bored she was getting all by herself back there!! Since I started really focussing on this, she's really improved dramatically. I think that some of her upset was just because she knew that she was less likely to get what she wanted/needed in the car, but doing everything possible to make the trip enjoyable for her seems to have changed that.

[pamelamama]

Eli is thirteen months and we have similar issues. Especially unhappy with diaper changes.

I guess since we are talking gently to our kids about the situation, not yelling or hitting, that's pretty GD, no?

I'm also interested in other mamas' perspectives and hints.

xo pam

[sparklemom]

wow, so many of your relating to how each of you feel. that should tell you something itself....these behaviors are very natural, though in the moment can be so hard to deal with time after time after time.

but seriously, it WILL pass and get better/easier. it may feel like an eternity in the meantime, but when you look back on it it will have passed in a flash. the surest way, however, to exagerate the phase is to turn a matter into an issue. when you see something starting to become an issue do everything you can to back your way out of that downward spiral.

the key is to maintain your level of respect with your child, which will continue to strenghten your bond. you have to exercise patience, as in MAKE yourself be patient, over and over and over and over again.

also as much as possible learn to let go, be flexible, and roll with it. don't be afraid to "give in" sometimes---sticking to things on a matter of principle isn't going to help. just let some things, a lot of things really, just go. and for the things you can't let go, like the specifically mentioned poopy-butt, get it done quickly and be sincerely sympathetic to your dc's feelings about the situation. the vast majority of things can honestly be let go though.

as far as things like putting on clothes, for example, hey...let 'em run around the house naked if they want to. my dd's went through a long stage of being little nudies at home. i think it's part of the reason they actually potty trained so early really. and for when we had to go somewhere i always had to allow for plenty!! of transition time and even then only maybe half the outfit got on until we finally arrived where we were going.

i guess what i am saying is that if you're really committed you can continue to be gentle, patient and respectful to your child as your instincts are telling you to do. and this will indeed pay off BIG TIME in the long run. but it takes MUCH patience and perspective. do everything you can to make things easier on yourself and your dc.

[veganmamma]

Well I have a 13 m/o dd and I think we totally use Gentle Discipline with her. Sure, she can't always choose things, but she does choose many things. She chooses foods, and toys. When I put her in her car seat when she doesn't want to be there, I say, "Would you like this sippy straw? Or your toothbrush?" (one of her fave toys) and she usually just wants one of them. Being able to have some control over the situation calms her down, gives her a sense of power over herself.

Also, she has had a couple true tantrums that I have had to allow her to have, maybe the most difficult aspects of Gentle Discipline in her early years.

Also, the diaper freak outs, another power struggle, she wants autonomy over her body and I want her to lay still so I can chage her diaper. Of course she cannot sit in it, absolutely not, but I have to find ways to share the power with her. Like for example, when she is adamantly opposed to the diaper, I grab an aplix AIO and change her while she is standing upthen sit her in my lap to pull her leggings back up so she can help me, allowing her to have some control over her situation. This is also how we get dressed in the morning. When she has a poop we always wash her butt in the sink, so we don't lay her on her back to take the diaper off, by the time she gets her butt washed there is an object from the bathroom that she can be distracted with to get her dipe on, then she sits up in my lap to get her clothes back on.

It's not really discipline, I guess, maybe Gentle Guidance.

Then there are the things she gets into that she isn't "supposed" to. Of course she has no impulse control, so even if I say "Please don't open this" or whatever, she will be doing it again in a few seconds or minutes. How can I guide her away from that without her feeling like she has lost power over herself? We have a few solutions, we have a cupboard full of tupperware type containers for her to take out and play with, we have lots of distractions everywhere for her, and we are trying to better childproof places like my MIL's where we spend lots of time, so we don't run into those situations.

So I guess I disagree that one year olds aren't really ready for GD, they just need a slightly modified version of what is commonly thought of as GD. I believe in the Discipline Book my dr sears he talks about GD as being something you work on from birth, beginning with AP, building a foundation, etc. I've loaned my copy to my mom to use with her clients, but if anyone has it, they should check out the beginning sections of the book where he talks about birth to 2 years.

Like everything else, it doesn't always work, sometimes I run out of easy diapers and make her submit to laying down for a change or she won't accept any toy in her carseat or whatever, but many times we find a power balance.
:love
Lauren

[Zanymom]

Zane (14 mo.) loves to be in the car. He loves to go places and see new things....but the diaper changes I can relate too :)

He does not like his poopy diapers changed. I have started to just pcik him up and set him in the tub to play while I wash his poopy butt. This works much better for us b/c he loves being in the tub and playing with the water coming out of the facuet.

And then when it is time for a new diaper, and he is not cooperating, I use cloth training pants on him. He loves to step into them himself, and then he leans over and watched me pull them up :D It is really cute!

I also do the velcro standing up change.

Anyways, I was very interested in this thread and your responses. I guess the thing I wonder about is when distraction doesn't work, what do you do? And dh is obsessed with telling ds "NO" :( What is a better thing for dh to do. ....I know we need to buy some GD books :)

[veganmamma]

Well of course we say "no" sometimes, even when we don't want to, it is like a conditioned response, I am embarassed to admit it may be mostly because we have been dog companions for our whole lives. anyway, we try to say, "Sephie, please don't do this, can you do such and such instead?" If she is adamant sheusually won't do the other thing, but if we remove her from the area that the "bad" thing is in she will usually move on a little bit. This kid has a crazy long attention span though, she remembers and goes back after the thing she wanted, so sometimes I just take her outside. That huge change in scenery can make the difference. HTH
Lauren

[Laurel]

I try not to say "no", though it slips out more than I'd wish. I usually say "Come away, please" or "Not for Dallin", while physically redirecting him to something else. I always try to say please and thank you to him.

I loved the idea about letting him help wash his own face or hands. I tried it yesterday and it didn't really go over, but I think it might with time. I've noticed that he is extremely sensitive about things touching his face or skin, hence his hatred of haircuts, being washed, and lotion/oil. I still haven't figured out how to make the baby oil go easier. It really has to be done because his skin gets so dry that he scratches and it bleeds if I don't put oil on every single day. I let him watch Elmo (we rarely watch TV) for the few minutes it takes and that sometimes distracts him, but he still fusses a little.

One of the best things I've done during diaper changes is to put a little pair of mittens on his hands that I happened to notice one day. He spends the whole change trying to get the mittens off, and he thinks it's great fun. By the time he gets them off, we're done.

I prefer him to be dressed since it's very cold where we live. But we do take it gradually. Sometimes it takes a few hours to get every article of clothing on because I try not to make a fight of it. He is just so busy he doesn't have time for getting dressed. The most challenging thing is snapping snaps, and I definitely prefer clothing w/o lots of snaps. But one thing I've done with that is to turn him upside down on his head while doing the crotch snaps. He thinks this is really hilarious and is so busy laughing that I can get him snapped in no time.

Veganmamma, I love The Discipline Book too, and it's my main resource. I just wish it went into more detail about toddlers. I agree with you about young toddlers and modified GD rather than no GD--I think that's how I would describe it better too. I'm patient and pretty creative about 95% of the time. Toddlerhood has been such a wild ride for me! I am so exhausted at the end of the day from the constant "negotiations". It has definitely challenged my brain--hopefully I'll have more ideas and resources in my brain for the next child.

[famousmockngbrd]

Thank you for all your responses. It is extremely helpful to learn that I am not alone and to hear your ideas.

Today I wanted to take him outside. He had to put some clothes on first - not his favorite activity. So I said, "Cole, let's put your clothes on, then we can go outside." Of course thanks to the miracle of a toddler's selective hearing the only thing that registered was "We can go outside." :rolleyes: So now he's standing at the door, wearing nothing but a diaper, pointing and crying. I took a deep breath, thought of all you wonderful patient ladies here at MDC, and said, "Cole, we need to put some clothes on you if we are going to go outside. You don't have to get dressed, but if you want to go outside you need to wear some clothes." I think he actually understood me! He left the door and roamed around the house for a few more minutes, then went back to the door and kind of whined and looked at me. I said, "Are you ready to get dressed and go outside?" and he sat down in front of the door. I put his clothes on - he did complain a little but not much - he actually HELPED put his shoes on, and we went outside and stomped through the puddles and had a grand old time. :D

So, take heart - it may not seem to be working, but keep at it. I think the thing to remember here is that we are just laying the foundation for the future. Little baby steps.

[hipumpkins]

For getting dressed we play peek a boo with every part that will "disappear" into the clothes. So I hold up Johanna's shirt and peek through the neck hole at her and say "Where's Johanna?" she comes right over and puts her head through. Pants are "where's Johanna's feet?" ..Well, you get the picture. I still have no idea how to clip the nails, though. I tried to do it in her sleep today but she actually tucked her hands under her body while she was sleeping so I couldn't do more then 2. :rolleyes:

[veganmamma]

I bite dd's nails, usually while she is nursing. I favor the right side though, so often times her right hand has longer nails! :LOL

[Piglet68]

This seems to be something that comes up alot here, the fact that GD books are all about older kids and there's nothing for the toddler phase. It would be nice if someone could write such a book, explaining what is appropriate behaviour developmentally, back it up with studies showing what kids that age can and cannot do (impulse control, regulating emotions, etc) and some helpful hints for how to deal with situations such as those described here.

One thing I'm finding is that I really have to be creative, but I'm always amazed at how rewarding a bit of patience and imagination can be.

Sometimes when DD doesn't want to do something, I'll bring a stuffed animal with me and we'll do it together and in a few seconds there is DD asking to join us. I also have to rub lotion on her after baths as her skin is very dry right now, and what I do is sit her on the bathroom countertop and she plays with all the stuff there while I do it. This also works great for toothbrushing, and when I'm trying to get ready in the morning before work.

Basically, if there is something that I want her to do, or not want her to do, and she's not on the same wavelength as me, I just start trying different things and sooner or later I seem to hit on something. There are times when I just have to go and do things against her will, and I try to be very sympathetic to how that makes her feel. Fortunately those situations don't seem to arise that often. And, perhaps this is premature, but she is generally a very cooperative little girl and I think it might be because we rarely battle our wills over things (or maybe she just hasn't discovered the power of defiance yet!).

Anyways, great thread! Someone write a book! :D

[famousmockngbrd]

I would buy that book. :D

[OhMel]

Hello!

I was going to start my own thread, but I think it's appropriate here. I've been reading The Discipline Book and dh and I have been trying to do things a little differently. BTW ds is 16 months and very active.

The first thing is being more consistent with what we're saying. There are very few things we don't let ds do, but those seem to be the things he really wants to do. An example is banging on lamps. I am afraid they are going to fall on him so I now just remove him from the situation and tell him we don't do that. This is going fine.

The second, and this is where I need input, is being respectful of ds and not just taking things from him. For the most part this is going well too. Mostly if given a choice he will do as asked (please leave the brush in the bathroom, and then I hold him up for him to put on the shelf.) However, what to do when he doesn't want to cooperate? He wants to hold his own cup but all he wants to do is dump whatever is in it on the floor or couch. I've tried sitting him on the floor in the kitchen and telling him cups are for drinking and not for spilling and that if he wants to play with water we can go get in the bathtub. However, he really wants to dump the liquid out of his cup. So I end up telling him that if he dumps it out I will put it up. He dumps, I put it up and he cries and after a few minutes if he asks for his cup we go through this whole thing again. Any suggestions or am I on the right track? I'm trying to strike a balance with being respectful and having some boundaries.

This is long . . . thanks for reading!

[gus'smama]

hmm, my ds is 16 mos and we go through much of what you all have described. I guess I agonize a bit less about saying no, or gently taking something away, and explaining "sorry, that's not for little boys to play with" or "nope, juice isn't for dumping. Mama is going to put it away now". Of course he doesn't really talk yet, so maybe that makes it easier for me:rolleyes:

I was surprised, when I finally stopped having a mental block about giving him choices, or explaining you need to x, before you can y, by how much he *does* understand that. He now goes to get his boots, snowsuit etc when I ask him if he wants to go outside. He used to be a big cry at the door type. If he protests half way through, I generally stop and remind him "we need to put on your warm clothes before we can go out. If you don't want to get dressed, we can stay in.." that type of reasoning, of course, works only for the things he is motivated by. The rest of the time, I sympathize, empathize, distract etc, and just try to get it done quickly.

I don't think we are harming our kids by letting them know, lovingly, gently, and respectfully, that sometimes..."you can't always get what you want"

ps: I second the idea of letting them run around naked. We have wood floors, and frankly, I'd much rather clean up a puddle, or even a poo off the floor than I would deal w/ the diapering battles. And poo picks up off the floor much more cleanly than when it is smeared all over ds's bum:LOL

[PuppyFluffer]

OhMel, Will your son take a sippy cup? We use the spill proof ones. When dd starts to bang it around, it's my cue that she is not thirsty. I try to remove it from the eating zone (the high chair or the floor if she is running around). I put it out of her sight and bring it back again after a few more bites.

Our dd is 19 mos. I have taught her some sign language and it has made a huge difference. We've been doing it since she was really tiny. She can clearly communicate drink, eat, more, apple, milk...how can I forget milk! It's her favorite. She is a little nursing fiend! I think they are never too old to learn sign and it helps minimize the frustrations.

I have a very laid back child so don't go thru alot of problems with the car seat or diapers as alot of kids do. (I'm sure we'll have *other* struggles!:LOL )

I think part of it is keeping things varied. Like so many others do, I vary the diaper changing area. I always wash her bottom in the sink or tub when she is poopy and I can do a diaper change ANYWHERE in like seconds flat! (We use cloth, prefolds with covers) I think not having a routine with a changing table and always doing it there helps alot.

[OhMel]

Yes, he'll take a sippy cup. It has the valve on it, but when he's banging the spout into the floor it doesn't really help.:rolleyes: I hadn't thought about varying the routine to help with issues -- I've been trying to establish MoRE of a routine. I'll have to experiment.

Oh, and we sign too. And thank goodness b/c he doesn't say many words. I think he would be a super frustrated little boy if we didn't have those signs. Thank goodness for that!

Thanks for the ideas!

[nancy926]

I love this thread!

DD is fairly laid back most of the time, but she has her favorite things to do...one of them is dump water on the floor (from the cat's water dish, a cup with a tiny bit of water in it that we sometimes let her have, etc.). We go get a towel, clean it up, and then ask for her help (we made up a sign for "help" because the ASL sign is too complicated for a 1-year-old). She also loves to "help' with the laundry, vacuuming, sweeping, putting things in the trash, putting silverware away....

now it's true, some of our silverware is not so clean (she likes to put spoons in her mouth before putting them away) and it may take awhile to fold all of the laundry. (She also "helped" empty her little potty into our potty yesterday before I could stop her...so we have to wash the bathroom rug!) But DD loves helping and it seems to minimize the differences of opinion about what should be played with and what shouldn't be.

We are also trying, instead of saying "no" (we too have dogs, so it's the natural response), to say what we want to happen instead. So instead of "no, don't dump the cat food" we say "the kitty's food needs to stay in the dish. Can you help put the food in the dish?" We still say "no" quite a bit but we're catching ourselves.

[mady]

I have been avoiding the word 'no' also, and using it only in times of true danger, but I'm wondering now--What is so wrong with it? It seems that in order to communicate in a developmentally appropriate manner, we need to keep things simple. Isn't, "No, the toilet water is dirty. Play with the water in the sink instead' simpler than, "mommy doesn't like it when you touch the toilet water. Why don't you try....."
I hope I don't offend anyone with this question. I mean it with the greatest respect. I just want my decisions on what I say to be genuine--not just semantics. I would appreciate any of your insights.

[Mona]

what bothers me about the word "no" is that often it is used w/o any other explaination. It is a catch all word that is over used, when an explaination that is not so restrictive sounding could be used. how many of us like to be told no, over and over again? we don't. but if something is explained to us, it is much more paltable.
also, i have seen some kids learn no as their first word, that is how often they hear it. they often do the behavior as they are saying no. so the word, while said repeatedly, does not have much meaning, bc a young child simply does not want to be limited, and more importantly shouldn't be limited.
i hope that makes sense. it's early.:zzz

[famousmockngbrd]

My mom does this - she'll simply tell Cole "no" and pull him (gently) away when he's doing something like dumping cat food, etc. I would rather she specifically tell Cole what she wants him to do - I feel like just "no" isn't enough. We try to say things like "Cole, stop dumping out the cat food, please," or "Don't touch - hot!" etc. That way he knows exactly what we are talking about. Also, sometimes we reword it in a positive way, so instead of saying "Don't do this" or "stop doing that", we are saying "Leave the cat food in the bowl, please" or "Gentle touch, like this" etc.

ETA - OK, I see that my reply doesn't really answer your question, lol. The reason I try to limit my use of the word "no" even when it prefaces an explaination is because I feel like it sets up a negative dynamic for the whole interaction. Also it forces me to be more creative in how I direct him, instead of just "no no no". It is semantics in a sense, but I think how you say things *is* important. I feel like I can't foster an atmosphere of cooperation if I am going around saying "no" all the time.

[mady]

Your explanation makes sense. Thanks!

[cinnamonamon]

Wow! This started out a terrible day, but it has gotten better & better! I'm so happy I found this thread. :D My ds is 12 mths this Saturday, and I have been struggling with boundries for a bit now. I'm soo glad to see that I'm not alone.

Not a lot to add right now, but I'll be back, I'm sure!

:D