Please help me change this-VERY late bedtime

[Acugirl]

HI!
I am hoping someone can help me work toward change.

I have a 13 month old. We cosleep-but sleep is really not happening for me! She wakes every 2-3 hrs to nurse and go right back to sleep. This is the best it has been all her life-she has a lot of trouble at night.

Anyway-she has FINALLY started napping GREAT-by herself in our bed for 1 1/2-2 hrs at a time. The problem is the schedule she has set up for her self...

Wake between 7:30 and 8:30.
Nap from 11-12:30 or so
Nap from 5-6:30 or so
Sleep at 10-10:30
Wake 11, 2, 4, and up for the day around 7:30

This is pretty much a consistant schedule for her and she seems to be thriving on it.

I am hesitant to change anything since she is finally napping so well on her own and I am really excited about that, but the reality is that I am so exhausted-I have dark circles under my eyes and feel like a zombie.
I also have NO down time with dh at all-the weekends are ok but the weeks are hard-I have to go to bed when she does.

Any suggestions? I have thought about cutting out the last nap, but she really seems to need it and has NEVER done well with an early bedtime-it is just MORE wakenings and often crying and fitful sleep...
so, I am at a loss..this sched is relatively new and she has only been doing these good naps for about 3 weeks...she just started walking 2 weeks ago too...

Thanks!

[LiamnEmma]

13 months was the time that both of my children began making the transition to one long nap (and thus, one long period of down time for me ;) ). So, in my case, I began inching the morning nap up a few minutes every few days--maybe 10 - 15 minutes. So, for example, instead of having them go down at 11 a.m., I had them go down at 11:15 a.m., and then maybe have the late afternoon nap come forward 5 minutes or so. This way, you are able to transition down to one nap slowly, and hopefully imperceptibly, until the morning nap occurs late enough for it to be one nap, with maybe a later bedtime, but not soooo late that you don't get any time for yourself too. This is a funky age in terms of sleep I think. So is the time when they start giving up naps all together, but that's another story! :LOL Anyway, that's my two cents. I hope you find some relief soon.

[mamaofthreeboys]

Personally I would start napping when the babe does if you're feeling exhausted! I would put her down for a nap (not fall asleep with her) and then go take a rest on the couch if you're feeling exhausted from her current schedule! I have found with my 6 month old the same thing if he doesn't have that evening nap he is super cranky and still goes to sleep anywhere from 10:30-11:30.

Could you do this? Tap a nap during her morning nap time & have down time with you're hubby during her evening nap? Or take a nap in the pm so you can stay up later to have some down time with hubby once baby is asleep?

Hope these ideas help in someway ;)

[Island Mommy]

Wow Acugirl, she's sleeping in her bed!! Did you ever think you'd see the day?

So you've had one suggestion to move her first nap later. That's probably the best option, but what might also work is to get her down for her first nap earlier. My dd is only 11 1/2 months old but even when she gets up at around 8 a.m. we have her down for her first nap at around 10:30...at the latest 11 a.m. It always surprises me when she goes to sleep because she can seem very wide awake and playing happily.

That being said, we were in your same boat for a couple of weeks around Christmas. She was getting so good at napping (1 1/2 - 2 hours for both naps) that she was up until between 10 and 11. The last couple of days she's had a shorter afternoon nap so I've been able to get her to bed around 9 p.m.

The other thing to consider is waking her from her afternoon nap after 1 hour (or conversely, try to get her down before 4 p.m.) The "authorities" seem to think that a nap should be 45 minutes at least. So, once she's past that point you could wake her up. We've done it with dd a few times and she doesn't wake up unhappy. She seems fine with it.

Are you nursing dd to sleep or slinging her? I've switched from nursing to slinging for bedtime. If I nursed her she'd keep delatching and crawling around on the bed. It would take forever to get her to sleep. If I sling her, she bounces around a bit but gradually starts yawning and then calmly falls asleep.

[Acugirl]

Thanks for the suggestions...
Today we seem to be back on track...she napped at 10:30-12 and 3:45-5 and just fell asleep now..it's 9PM so that is much better...

Island Mommy-she isn't sleeping in her own bed...she's in ours still-we have the crib sidecar'd and she will nap in the crib part, but at night has to be next to me...

I still sling her to sleep all the time-it's the only thing I have patience for...and by now her association with it is SO strong, I have NO CLUE how to stop!

[Island Mommy]

Sorry Acugirl, I know she's sleeping in your bed but at least you don't have to hold her in the sling for her entire nap anymore. That's progress, don't you think?!

[poppy'smama]

Hi Acugirl

I have a 12 and a half month old little girl so she's at a pretty similar stage to your daughter. We too have alwys co-slept, although she's been napping in her own bed and starting the night in it since about 6 months. She used to wake 3 or 4 times a night (which I could handle OK) and always needed b/feeding back to sleep, but about a month and a half ago after we'd been abroad and she was suffering from jetlag she started waking every hour or more. It got so some nights I was just waking up and checking the clock and seeing ten or fifteen minutes had only passed since she last woke. She was also tossing and turning, wriggling all over the bed so she kept me awake, or if I moved she woke. After weeks of this and feeling exhausted and fed up and knowing I'd never do CIO, I had been desperate for something. Now i'm not the kind of person who normally would reach for a book or plan but I have to say after reading about the No Cry Sleep Solution I decided to get a copy and give it a go. I've only started two days ago but there's lots of stuff in it which really makes sense and many different ideas not jsut one technique; as regards the late bedtime thing, if my daughter stays up late she sleeps less well, and one of the things the book says is the earlier to bed the better they sleep. I've moved her bed forward from 9/10 to 7.30/8.30 last couple of nights and am already noticing the difference. Also re: naps, if they nap too late in the afternoon it can mean they don't go to sleep till late, and i was finding this to be a real problem, so today I am experimenting with just one long nap in the middle of the day, because she wasn't taking her second nap till 5/6 and then a 7.30 bedtime was never going to happen. I'll let you know what the results of this are! But perhaps they're at an age where they could move to one nap now.
I'd really suggest loking at the book for ideas, and it is a long-term thing not a quck-fix, but i'm willing to commit now as I really need to start sleeping again. BTW, last night I kept getting her back to sleep and putting her in her bed, apart from once when I brought her into ours around 4 and she wouldn't settle then, kept fussing, wriggling, crying out, nursing but not going into a deep sleep, so I am finding we are both getting better sleep if she is in her own bed, even if I have to get up 8 times in the night! But the idea is with the techniques in the book to help get those wakings cut right down over the next month or two. I know not everyone will have success with it, but I am giving it a go so I shall let you know how I get on. but I do think the late bedtime and late aftenoon nap are linked, as is not sleeping well in the night. good luck!

P.s. the book has lots of stuff on how to break sleep associations, re: your problem with the sling.

[Acugirl]

Thanks poppy's mama-I have read that book-a WHILE ago-when dd first started having problems-I will read it again now...

I am trying another technique I read about called scheduled wakenings-where you wake the baby 15 min or so before they would normally wake and then get them back to sleep and eventually you stop waking them and they are supposed to sleep through-have no clue how or why it works..but we'll see-for now, I am only doing the first few wakenings since I can't see setting my alarm all night...sometime her wakings are predictable and sometimes not-si it will be hard...
Anyway, tonight she went to bed at 9:30 and I jostled her a bit at 10 and will wake her and nurse her at 11 before I go to bed and see how that goes for a few days...
I am trying to move her bedtime earlier-but she has NEVER done well with a 7PM bedtime-9 seems much better for her...

[poppy'smama]

hi acugirl

she talks about an idea similar to scheduled wakenings in NCSS, but slightly different. in that you set your alarm to 5 or 10 mins before her hourly wake, (or whatever it usually is), then wait just outside the door, as soon as she starts to stir get in there and settle her, the idea being it's much easier if she hasn't woken up properly yet.

also re: bedtime, you're right that 7pm may be too early for your DD, obviously every baby is an individual, but the general principle is the earlier the better. So pantley suggests moving it forward by say 15-30 minutes every 2 or 3 nights and experiment. keep a log so you can see which nights she sleeps better, longer, wit hless wake-ups, and find the best bedtime for her. It may be closer to 8pm than 7pm, but 9pm could just be too late and might be having a negative effect on her sleep.

My experience of the last two days kind of seems to bear this out:

Two nights ago my DD took a late afternoon nap, (went down at 4.30 but I woke her just after 5 although she could have slept till around 5.30 or later I reckon). So that night she was difficult to settle, I started bedtime routine at 6.50 but after much squirming, waking then nodding off, wanting to play in darkened room etc. she fell asleep at 8.30, then woke at 9.05/11.25/12.15/1.48/3.50/5.00/6.15/7.30 awake for the day. So 7 wakings in all and longest time asleep was 2 hours in a row, (shortest 35 mins!). Guess who was tired the next day, LOL!
However last night I did one nap early afternoon, 12.30-2.30, then she went to sleep very easily at 7pm, after only 1 hour bedtime routine, then get this for night wakings.
Woke at 9.45/12.30/3.15 (had trouble getting her back to sleep at this one, 1 hour of feeding/rocking,strokeing etc.), but then slept till 7.15 and awake for the day
Only 3 wakings as opposed to 7, shortest sleep chunk was 2 and a half hours, longest 3 and a quarter hours, and she still only woke up 15 mins earlier this morning than the previous day.

Dig the book out and give it another go - sure everything's worth trying when you're not getting any sleep, isn't it!

I'll keep you posted with how I'm getting on.
Take care
Amy