raising boys (children) consciously

[megincl]

DS is 9mo and DP and I are committed to raising a strong, healthy boy who makes a contribution to the world. I'm wondering what folks do to raise their boys, or children, somewhat outside of gender stereotypes. We definitely want him to feel empowered to make his own choices, but I think that's just the trick. So many people who we talk to, including our family, make comments, give him things, point him in directions that are so stereotypically male. I'm not quite sure what to do. When people say to DS, "Oh, your blonde hair and blue eyes are too beautiful for you to be a boy," or point him in the direction of playing with trucks and balls, I want to think of creative ways to let him know that he has options. I guess some of this thinking is WAY in advance, but I know that sooner rather than later he'll be picking up all of the hidden messages in the great big world. Just to be clear, it's not that I don't want him to play with and enjoy trucks and balls, etc, but I just want him to feel like there is hopefully not such a disconnect between our home and the greater world, and ultimately to feel that he can make choices about things. Don't know if any of this makes sense, but I'd love to hear the other choices people are consciously making in the more social domain of child raising.

thanks!
megin

[IslandMamma]

Megin, I think this is a great thread. I'm grappling with many of those same issues myself.

I'm wondering if this might get more traffic and answers over on the "parenting" topic?

Just a thought, and I'll try and add my 2 cents worth when my brain has a bit more sleep... hopefully before next year.

[~Jenna~]

There are two books I'm reading called Raising Cain and Real Boys. They both have a lot of insight into the mind of boys. I think I like Raising Cain better because he gives examples of how not to raise the stereotypical boy. I'm not too far into these books yet, but you might want to check them out.

I wish I could really offer some better advice but my ds is only 6 months old! One thing I think we are not going to do is send our ds to a traditional public school because that seems to really, really reinforce the gender stereotypes. I do find myself falling into the trap of buying him all "boy" stuff. It is hard to get out of that mindset. I swore I would never buy him blue clothes or trucks or stuff like that, but here he is with a ton of blue clothes!

[VikingKvinna]

Hi,
New here, but had to join this discussion. When I found out that I was going to have a boy, I made jokes about heading over to Target to buy him his first Barbie.... I have done a lot of academic work, writing and thinking about gender issues in my life, and am actually still struggling to come to terms with the fact that I -- former hardcore gender-bender and queer theorist -- am now a "traditional" stay-at-home mom. I digress, but not really, because I think the first step to raising cool, self-aware and opened-minded children of either gender is being a cool, self-aware, open-minded parent. That sounds cheesy, I know, like "realizing you have a problem is the first step towards solving your problem" but I think it's true, too. You're not out there mindlessly buying Tonka trucks and baseball bats like a Stepford mom, and you're addressing the issue already. Your sons will pick up on your attitude. Your choices, whether all that conscious or not, will reflect your beliefs.

One of the things that concerns me is how to do this -- to offer our little boys alternative ideas and choices -- without coming off as strident and militant, which I think runs the risk of making a huge deal out of the issue, or hypocritical? I started out very vehemently; I was NOT going to dress my son (now 5 1/2 months) in any blue or sports-related clothing, for example. Well, guess what everyone gave me? How to tell my mother's well-meaning coworker that while we appreciate the romper with basketballs printed all over it...you get the idea. So I've adopted a policy of smiling politely and saying thank you (or whatever is the appropriate thing to say) but how to explain to my son, later on down the line, the logic of the little white --and hypocritical-- lie? SO and I joke around about our son's good looks: "He's going to be quite a hit with the ladies, or the men, or whomever he chooses to be with" but unless you've got your armor on and are prepared to do the battle, you just have to check comments like that around some other people, kwim? How do we tell him that while it's OK to play with Barbie at home, he might want to take GI Joe to playgroup...?

So, no answers here, but this is a great thread...looking forward to reading others' ideas and comments.

~nick

[beccaboo]

I have two sons: in April the older one will be five and the younger will be two. I think about these issues as well, especially since ds#1 has come out with some surprisingly sexist comments in the past year, which I attribute in large part to peer influence at his preschool. [One comment I didn't mind was that Disney "princess movies" are for girls - which is fine with me because I really don't want my kids to watch them!]

I recommend the book "The Courage to Raise Good Men." One point I got out of the book is that in addition to (or perhaps even more important than) allowing them to play with dolls, try on barrettes, take a dance class, or whatever, we need to make sure that we're allowing our boys to fully own and express their emotions, which was often not done in the past. Oh, and that it's critical that we mothers stay involved and emotionally connected, and not pull away for fear of, among other things, turning our sons into "momma's boys."

Gotta run for now, but I'll check back in later!

Becca

[megincl]

Nick, I completely know what you mean. Lately I feel like the barrage of transportation-themed clothing just can't stop. I also feel that tension between being polite, and encouraging things at home and then communicating appropriately with DS (when the time comes) about what others out in the world might think.

Becca, this thing about letting boys express emotions seems so huge. Perhaps naively, what is it that stops them? How do others promote this? DS definitely sees me and DP expressing our emotions, although he laughs when I cry. :) I think this will be a big thing when he is in a more formal care situation or school, but I wonder how to prepare him to not get shut down there, or how to look for the proper place....

I'm not looking for quick answers, as I know this is an inquiry we'll be in for a long time in our household.

Thanks all for the book recs -- I'll definitely check them out!

Can't wait to hear from more folks!
megin

[~Jenna~]

Here's an example from the book Raising Cain about how we subltly don't encourage boys to express their emotions:

So a little boy asks him mom if he has to sit in his carseat. She takes the time to explain about safety and the law, etc. etc. Okay so then he sees a boy crying in the park and asks about it. The mom says "i don't know, come on, lets go". So a lot of times parents will explain things that are benign but they won't explain why a boy is crying. Does that make sense? Also I think boys get made fun of from an early age by other boys if they express emotions other than anger or aggression. Plus sometimes parents will say things like, oh you are a big guy you can handle it instead of letting them be frightened. Okay I know some of this is kind of random, but do you get what I am trying to say?

[oceanbaby]

One point I got out of the book is that in addition to (or perhaps even more important than) allowing them to play with dolls, try on barrettes, take a dance class, or whatever, we need to make sure that we're allowing our boys to fully own and express their emotions, which was often not done in the past. Oh, and that it's critical that we mothers stay involved and emotionally connected, and not pull away for fear of, among other things, turning our sons into "momma's boys."

That's pretty much what I was going to say - expose them to everything, follow their lead, and treat them as a unique person based on who they are, not what gender they are.

My son is 2.5yo, and from the very beginning has been obsessed with balls, and anything sports related. I tried giving him dolls, and he wanted nothing to do with them. I tried to dress him in non boy specific clothes, but it sure is hard to find something that doesn't have either a blue basketball or a pink flower on it.

He is often described as "all boy" because he is very physically oriented - loves all sports, runs, jumps, likes to wrestle and be thrown around. But he is very sensitive to other's feelings, we take a music class, we cook and bake together, he loves art projects and dancing and music. He gets upset when he sees another kid crying, and I've always explained to him that the baby is upset or tired or hungry or whatever. When ds gets upset and cries, we've never told him to 'get over it.'

He is also very secure in his attachment to me - I have had an extreme reaction to anyone suggesting he was a mama's boy. What an insulting thing to say about a 1.5yo. He's a baby, of course he's supposed to be attached to his mother, geez. I remember standing in line at the grocery store one time when ds was about 8 months old, and this guy behind me starting talking to ds. He asked ds something, ds looked at me, and the guy said "What, you've got to look at your mommy for approval for everything?" I turned around and said "He'd better look to his mommy for approval - you're a stranger and he's a BABY!"

And I think a lot of it may be due to the influence of the men in their life. Both my husband, his father and my father (all 3 very important men in ds's life) are sensitive, loving men. Sure, my dh is into sports, my dad fixes cars, etc., but none of them would ever make ds feel embarassed about being into something 'girly.' They all express emotions (I've never seen them cry, though) but none of them are overly macho.

I'm just getting over a bad sickness and it is late and I'm tired and I know I'm not making my point very well. But I think just the fact that you are conscious of this puts you on the right track.
You probably don't have to do much more than that to raise a loving, sensitive, secure man.

[saintmom]

We have six children with one more due any day.only one girl.Some of the more tangible things that I have done over the years are,Each child always had a handmade waldorf style doll.When siblings were being born they usually had their dolly boys wrapped in diapers and being breastfed!Inever interfered with this nurturing playtime.My dh is a good strong man who is not afraid of his emotions,Many times as my older boys were growing up thay saw their father cry.He also has always hugged them and said I love you,Often.They've always had to pitch in and help with housework and outside chores.Basically what you model is how the'll grow up to perceive their world.Kinda scary !

[robin-ma]

When people say stuff to me that I disagree with I (when I have the time/energy/guts) ask why, then when they are explaining it warms me up to disagree. If I don't have time or desire to engage the person, I talk to DS about why I disagree with the view the person has expressed and/or I ask him what he thinks about the expressed view as well. It helps to think of messages you disagree with as opportunities to discuss rather than just bad influences.

[melixxa]

I was just thinking about this this week. My boy is 5 1/2 months, too, but I'm thinking it's never too soon to start pondering these big questions.

When I was pregnant and 100% certain I would have a girl, I ended up getting an u/s and we were informed I would be having a boy. I was flummoxed. I simply could not imagine raising a boy - my family is one big matriarchy (and my brother is gay). I would never say I was *disappointed*, I just couldn't imagine it. I was so worried about having an "all boy" boy - interested in stuff that I couldn't care less about, or even actively dislike - that I found myself hoping my ds would be gay - like my wonderful brother!

Now, with Xmas and the glut of gifts just behind us, I am thinking about it again. I cannot tell you how many sports-themed outfits we have gotten. I hate them and can't imagine putting them on my baby (except for a team jersey I put him in to please Dad - it's for "his" team - and my mom's, lol - she's a huge football fan. Photo op!). Anyway, I don't mind the transportation-themed clothes as much because I'm certain I'd have my girl wearing them too if I had a girl. Better that (for a girl) than the beribboned, lace-encrusted stuff I see clogging the racks of the consignment stores! But I do wish there were more options - for both sexes ...

Although DS is too young to understand, I am already taking umbrage at the gender-biased comments. Just the same way I do when people (EVERYONE, it seems) say things like "Is he a good baby? Does he cry much? Does he sleep through the night?" I hate the way "good" is equated with not crying, sleeping well, basically doing everything that's most convenient for us adults. It's so hard to eradicate stuff like this even from my vocabulary - it's so all-pervasive. Especially siince my baby does not cry much, which amazes me (he is on much more of an even keel than I am emotionally, that's for sure - and I cried every day of my pregnancy so I'm pretty psyched that I didn't "damage" him in some way). It's hard to resist the temptation to respond, "Yes, he is so good!"

Sorry to be OT there. I am very happy that this discussion is going on here and I too would welcome good book recommendations. I want my boy to grow up as free from harmful stereotypes as possible.

[magnoliablue]

I have another great book to suggest....Raising a Son, by Don and Jean Elium...from the time my oldest was a babe until now I have always encouraged him to express his emotions. I am very affectionate and say I love you all the time. He still gets tucked in at 11..lol..and if he knew I posted that he would kill me!...he still picked up gender stereotypes by being around other boys in sports programs..he plays football, and the one thing I hate about it is from 6 years old the coaches get tough on these little boys when they cry. Well if someone stepped on your hand in cleets, wouldn't you cry? They are supposed to "tough it out" and though I can think of many pluses of organized sports, that is not one of them....so I reinforce what I believe, that it is ok to cry when you want to cry, laugh and be affectionate. I think we as parents really have to be the guides to keep these stereotypes from taking hold. I know my son will not cry on a football field..but he will cry when the bigger things in life present themselves, the birth of his child, his wedding day , to name a few..and if he stays that empathetic, I know I am doing somethng right.

[momatheart23]

I have to second the recomendation for Real Boys, I thought it was excellent. My 2.5 year old has been naturally drawn to trucks since he could talk. One of his first words was truck and when he was barely over one he used to yell "TRUCK" very loudly any time we would see one on the freeway, in fact he was so excited the girls 3 year old girls I watch started joining him until I had a loud chorus in the back yelling truck quite frequently as I was driving. He also was making his fingers into a gun from an extremely young age. He is also very empathetic, extremely cuddley, and the biggest sweetheart in the world. I make a point to talk to him about emotions, but I would if I had a girl too. The book talks about how as boys grow they will learn the "boy code" from society, but that it is important that their home always be a safe space to be true to themselves. So I am sure that at some age my son will stop wanting to give me hugs in front of his friends, and act macho around them, but he will know he can always cry with me, and get hugs whenever he wants. Also as others said I think the role models he grows up with are important. My DH likes sports, and works on cars, but he is also an excellent cook, knows how to change cloth diapers, and is emotional. So I know my sons will be raised balanced human beings able to challenge the outdated boy code, and break it down a little at a time.

[pixie-n-hertwoboys]

I just had to jump in here also. I have two boys and let me tell you that when I found out that the first was a boy, I was dumbfounded! I come from a family of 3 girls, my sis had two girls and even all the animals we've had have been female (my poor dad when af hit us all at the same time!) Anyway, I thought I wouldn't know how to raise a boy but you know what? In the 3 years since ds was born I have treated him like I would any other baby - no gender hinderance. He plays w/ 'babies' and gives them milks when they are hungry. He is very well aware that he can express his emotions ( a little too aware at times) :rolleyes: He likes balls, animals, nature, babies, (in fact all his animals all have moms and they get breast fed too :love its too cute!) he is also all boy too - he loves to wrestle, play football, etc.

I'm not a big one on reading how-to books (not condoning them but I just don't have the time) so I've been going on what feels right to me. Dh is a sensitive, peaceful man so I don't think we will have much problem w/ the whole gender thing. And my dad is the same - he'll play ball but also play animals or whatever.


I dress him in non-character stuff - thats why I like the Gap because mostly they have simple things for boys like plaid and other designs not characters. My most fav is space stuff for him as we are star lovers here in this fam.

All is well for us until he gets in school....

[captain optimism]

We get the gendered clothes, big time. My dh got a perverse thrill out of sending my mom a photo of our baby in a hand-me-down purple flowered onesie. (My mom keeps sending us baby pjs with "4X4 Truck" embroidered on them in big letters. What is less like a big truck than a baby boy, I don't know...) My dh is great, especially since he's the one staying home with my son while I go out work 9-5. He takes him to the local LGBT hangout cafe three times a week.

But you know, there's a lot of messages from outside of your house that little boys get. Our friend is super-duper-hyper feminist and she even whited out the sexist stuff in her son's children's books. I think sometimes that her desire for him to be gentle and nurturing backfires a little. It sometimes seems like she's inadvertently giving a message that boys aren't as good as girls. He's not a particularly gentle boy, he's actually kind of angry in some ways. I've written about this here before. I kind of prefer the method momatheart23 describes of validating "boy" things--let's all yell TRUCK as loud as we can!

I like boys. I want to be conscious not to limit my son, but I also want to be positive about the good things in what our culture calls masculinity.

[jeca]

I so know what you mean about family trying to push them into a certain way. I get so sick of hearing how he should have been a girl with hair or eyes like that. telling him he shouldn't play with babydolls. ON that note I quickly jump in with are you telling him he shoundn't play babies with his sister cause that's what she wants to play and I think it's very nice of him to play with her. That just annoys the hell out of me. Or the stupid idea if you let your son have the freedom to play with what he want you'll screw him up.
But you know it's not just boys girls are given those same defined lines. I just try to blend the lines.

[VikingKvinna]

Yeah, I like that...

I'm reading the posts since I last checked this thread and alternately cracking up ("What is less like a big truck than a baby boy, I don't know...") and nodding my head so hard in agreement that I think it may fall off (" I found myself hoping my ds would be gay"). Wow.

When I had my u/s, the clearest thing on the screen was DS's little unit, pointing skyward. The tech said, "It's a BOY!" and I said, "F***!!!!!" I kid you not. As I told a friend of mine afterwards, "I don't like boys--why would I want to raise one?" My friend's reply: "That's exactly WHY -- think about what a cool boy you will raise." Then I told my therapist, who said, "Oh, Nick...this is a big huge message from the universe..." There is a lot of irony in my having a boy, but a lot of purpose in it too -- for me, personally, as well as for my son. I had to work through some serious issues that I had/have about men during my pregnancy, and I'm certain I'm not finished. If my son were gay, I'd know how to deal with it. Right now I don't know how to deal with a "boy's boy."

But I love, love, love oceanbaby's idea of treating the child as a unique person, gender aside. It's so simple, and so fundamental, but I think this idea does get lost in the wider societal realm of pink vs. blue. A lot of people aren't accustomed to treating their children, let alone others', in this manner; instead, their gender overshadows or prefigures their identity. I think all too often we treat children (AND adults!) based --if not solely, then heavily-- on their gender. I mean, what's the first question we ask of an individual whose gender is uncertain -- whether that's a tiny infant dressed in mint green, or a transgendered adult? "Is that a boy (man) or a girl (woman)?"

I think captain optimism has a great point, too, about not devaluing the masculine in our desire to include the feminine. I don't want to go so far overboard in trying to raise a sensitive and in-touch boy that he becomes ashamed of his gender, or that I raise a boy who is too much like a stereotypical girl, either. I want to operate outside the dyad, not just swing back and forth between its poles. Of course there are some great things about "typical" men, about being male. Neither gender is inherently better or superior; it's the societal stuff--2000 years of living in an inequitable patriarchy-- that places these labels and limits.

As to reacting to comments, I really think it'll be a question of picking my battles. I'm not the kind of person who thinks on my feet, unfortunately, but instead splutter and then spend the next six hours composing the perfect reply in my head, so I do need to do some thinking about how to respond to insensitive comments.

As to the clothes for boys, I've had it not only with the sports stuff, but with the dinosaur/safari outfits and those darn overalls that look like mattress ticking. I keep wondering why the baby-togs industry wants my child to look like Jeff Probst or a train conductor!

Wow. Great posts, everyone! I'm so enjoying this thread.
~nick

[MamaBug]

I have two of the books mentioned but have yet to get around to reading them. I have two boys ages 3 & 5 and I have tried very hard to let them express whatever emotion they have. My dh is in the military so he is very much a "boys don't cry" kind of thinker but over the years I have made him understand how good it is for men to have and be able to share their emotions.

My oldest exhibited empathy at a very early age. He is very loving and kind and I have always told him that if he needs to cry he can cry. That it's ok to be sad and that he should talk to me about it. As far a buying stereptype toys and such, we gave him a kitchen set and things like that and he loved it. He also sees my dh doing the laundry, dishes and such so he knows that not only mommies do these things, even though they are home all day :D Once he wanted to get princess toothpaste and he caught himself and said " Oh I can't have that it's for girls" I said " No honey if you like it you can get it, you can enjoy pink toothpaste too" He got it and it was delicious, according to him~

[mirthfulmum]

Thanks so much for starting this thread. I too am trying to figure out how to raise a sensitive, caring, loving boy. DS is only a year and a half but DH and I try our best to let him express whatever emotions he has freely and openly. DS is a very empathetic child, which I hear is quite common for boys, as a baby he would always start to cry if another baby near him was in distress. And even now as a toddler he is really uncomfortable and obviously distressed if someone around him is openly unhappy.
I can't say that I've done much reading on the subject but I do have a recommendation for the kids. Does anyone here remember "Free to Be You and Me"? Both DH and I remember absolutely loving our "Free to Be You and Me" book and records when we were kids. So we got the CD for DS this x-mas. Both DH and I smiled as we listened to the stories and songs for the first time since we were children. Most of it is over DS's head right now but he does enjoy listening to many of the songs. And the message of the stories and music are simple. Everyone is welcome to be their own person whom ever that may be. Boys can cry and play with dolls and girls can wear jeans with holes in the knees and travel the world to visit distant lands. The skit between Mel Brooks and Marlo Thomas as babies trying to figure out if they're boys or girls is still as funny at 29 as it was when I was 9. Although DH and I do have a whole new appreciation for the "Parent's are People" song.
I agree it is so empowering to gather as much information as we can to help us raise our sons in a society that just seems so ready to beat them down. I love having something in my home that speaks directly to my son, that will fire his imagination (as it did mine and DH, who is a wonderfully sensitive and empathetic man by the way) and help back up the values we are trying to teach.

[tracymom]

I liked "the Little Boy Book." It talked a lot about the fact that boys ARE different physiologically and how to work with that while not limiting boys to suppressing their emotions. It addresses also the problem of boys being labeled as hyperactive when they are only immature and how important it is to not rush a boy to school before he is ready.

One thing I got out of it and also observe in my two (7 and 4) boys is that they seem to NEED physical activity more than I ever remember needing it. Usually when we have behavior problems, it's like, uh-oh, better get outside and run around, or if it's too cold, go to Burger King's indoor playground and run the tubes.

We've always tried to emphasize verbalizing feelings when possible to try to prevent their feeling like they have to bottle everything up. Oldest DS indeed was so open with his emotions that he did have a problem once he got into kindergarten and had to work out for himself how to express his feelings yet get along with the other students. (He tended to tell others his opinion even if it wasn't too flattering or polite, LOL.) So we worked on tact.

I like the idea of home being a "safe place" where you can just be yourself and not have to act according to how the world expects. We just kind of tie all that in to, you know, it's kind of okay to run around the house naked but we wouldn't do it outside, that kind of thing, "outside" manners versus "inside" manners, as like it or not, there are societal norms that we all have to conform to.

I also spend a lot of time deconstructing advertising and other forms of stereotype reinforcement to my sons. Oldest DS announced some toy on the TV "was for girls" and I asked him why he said that. He said because it was pink. I said color didn't really matter, though I would admit that the girls I knew did seem to like pink things better, but that nothing about the color pink itself made it a girl thing. I didn't catch the glazed look that time, anyway, so I guess he got it. :rolleyes:

One good thing is that DS is the real housekeeper and cook in the family! :D

[beccaboo]

These are such interesting posts!

I hear you, SoccerMom - I just checked my parenting bookshelf and I also have "Between Mothers and Sons," "The Wonder of Boys," and "The Secret Love of Sons," all as yet unread. :rolleyes:

Speaking of truck sightings, my ds#2, 21 months, goes into paroxysms in the back seat chanting "scuba! scuba!" when we see school buses out and about...

It seems to me that an attachment parenting/gentle discipline model should go a long way to help us combat the typical gender stereotypes. Acknowledging and expressing emotions, encouraging nurturing behavior and empathy, really listening to what our kids have to say, modeling and teaching respect and open mindedness - all these things will hopefully help my boys stay emotionally connected and perhaps also avoid rigid gender roles. It also seems, though, that it's easier (or perhaps just more socially acceptable) to nurture these traits when our boys are young. Buying sparkly pink slippers for a two-year old is one thing, but what if your twelve-year old likes them? (OK, that may be too superficial an example...)

I'm going to return to the book I mentioned earlier: "The Courage to Raise Good Men." The authors write quite a bit about the mother-son relationship and how mothers, for both consious and unconscious reasons, often pull away from their sons as they grow older, so as to foster their masculinity and prepare them for adult life. The boys, in return, feel abandoned, shut down emotionally, and the cycle is perpetuated. [I just found a list of reasons the authors give for mother withdrawal, which I find quite interesting - I can type them out later if anybody's interested.] So I think it's important that we look towards the future and consciously stay involved and, well, attached, especially into the turbulent times of adolescence.

To change the subject somewhat, I'll add that I don't really have a hard time finding cute clothes for my boys. I get nice cotton stuff from the sale racks/pages of Gap, Hanna Andersson, Land's End, etc. I dislike sports-themed garb, but we have quite a few items with trains, construction vehicles, etc, since both boys gravitate towards them. They do wear a fair amount of blue and red, but I go out of my way to look for bright colors and when combined they result in really cute outfits (bright green shirt, yellow socks, orange cords was ds#2's ensemble today). Plus ds#1 says his favorite color is "rainbow" so I've gotten several funky striped shirts for him. Oh, and his favorite pair of undies is hot pink! :)

Another random thought: ds#1 has developed a fascination with bad guys, super heroes, fighting, etc (not to mention his enjoyment of "potty humor" - that may be best left for another post!). He picked up most of those concepts at preschool. I don't think they're necessarily bad, but I do find it fascinating how much these things resonate with him at his particular developmental stage. It's also rather discouraging to see how much he and his classmates self-segregate by sex. To pick up on what pixie wrote: how do we combat gender stereotypes once they hit school? Of course, homeschooling is one answer, but society and the media are relentless, and the messages are clear even to children that are shielded from TV, etc.

My kids are happy that I've been sitting at the computer so long! Must put away the crayons and get them to bed... :D

[~Jenna~]

Beccaboo, I was just reading about the superhero thing in one of the books I'm reading and the author said that boys like superheros because it lets them feel big and powerful instead of small. It also lets them express justice, fairness, good and evil. So it is totally natural for boys to want to play with superheros. My dh is a very sweet, sensitive man and he *still* loves superheros and comic books.

[eilonwy]

:OT My niece had a superhero fixation for a while too; she decided that I was a superhero, because "superheros help people who can't help themselves because they don't know how to, and you do that too!" It was too sweet :)

My little boy is 14 months old, and I am very conscious of gender stereotyping. So is DH; he was a very quiet, sensitive little boy who always felt pressure to be more loud and boisterous than he wanted to be. He's not gay, just a quiet person. His mother was very progressive for the time and place he was raised in. When he was 2 and picked up a dolly that his sister didn't play with, calling it "my baby" and rocking it, his mother thought it was sweet and let him be. :)

My best friend (a guy) preferred reading alone to sports; he still resents the way his father forced him to learn to shoot and do 'manly' chores when he would have been much happier sitting around with a book. It's not that either of them dislike 'manly' activities, they just wish that they'd been allowed to have quiet peaceful moments the way their sisters were.

Eli's Godmother is all about sports and cars. She's very excited to have three little boys (Eli and her two new nephews) in her life to "share the testosterone" as it were. She can't wait to teach them all to play football and ride horses. She's very feminine, for the most part; gets her nails done, wears a bit of makeup to work, etc, but she's a huge sports fan and loves roughhousing and such. I'm sure that she'd be just as thrilled teaching little girls to play football and ride horses; she's just happy to have little people around to teach things to. :LOL

I'm not worried about adults trying to force gender stereotypes on my son (though strangers do it all the time.. I too hear "oh those eyes are way too pretty for a boy!" I know they're just jealous of his eyelashes.. just like I am! :LOL) but I am worried about my nieces. They are very girly girls, and my older niece has some very strong gender ideas. We're not sure where she got them from; none of the women in her life are particularly feminine, but she has still decided that "Eli is not 'beautiful', he's 'handsome' because he's a boy." and several other such things. My niece is 6 years old and was the only person to object to Eli carrying a pink "my first baby" doll, or to him playing with Barbies or any other "girly" toy. Guess I'll have to work on her!

It also really bothers me that for some reason you're not allowed to kiss a little boy in public. For crying out loud, he's a baby! Again, it's strangers who get in my way, not family or close friends. Go figure. :rolleyes:

[mirthfulmum]

Originally posted by beccaboo

I'm going to return to the book I mentioned earlier: "The Courage to Raise Good Men." The authors write quite a bit about the mother-son relationship and how mothers, for both consious and unconscious reasons, often pull away from their sons as they grow older, so as to foster their masculinity and prepare them for adult life. The boys, in return, feel abandoned, shut down emotionally, and the cycle is perpetuated. [I just found a list of reasons the authors give for mother withdrawal, which I find quite interesting - I can type them out later if anybody's interested.]

beccaboo, I am interested to know what the reasons were for mothers withdrawing from their sons. I love my son and want to help him to become a confident, happy and emotionally whole person, but sometimes I wonder if I'm being unfair to him by not preparing him for the cruelty that can be inflicted on a boy who has not begun the disensitization so many other boys go through.
I would like to know what internal obstacles I might come up against as DS gets older and begins to really interact with his peers.

And for those of you with sons already in pre-school, daycare, school, is their anything you would have done differently in raising your sons during the toddler years? Have you found success in your goal of having a strong and emotionlly healthy boy who blends well into his school?

[Marsupialmom]

I highly recommend the Wonder of Boys by Michael Gurian. I think sometimes we as mom/women we just completely miss understand our boys boyish behavior.

Boys are physcially and psycolagicly different. IMO, this book can help you learn to understand the differences so you can better raise a sensitive guy.

I think the biggest thing I learned from that book is how to better approach the men in my life. That they need time to process things emotionally.

[Dakota's Mom]

We do not buy anything sports related or corporate logo for our son. We do let him wear some cars. Mostly he has animals on his clothes. Lots of hiking themes since that's what DH loves. He wears lots and lots of tye-dye. I want to make him lots of patchies for summer. We have bought dolls for him and he loves to carry his "Cookie" around the house. But he also loves trucks. He plays with them more than anything. Trucks and balls. He also loves the play food that he has at Grandma's house.

We try to teach him a gentle way of living. I just wish I knew how to stop him from hitting. He doesn't mean to hurt but he loves to dive bomb us with both hands landing on our faces. I take his hand and gently rub my face or my arm and say, "Gentle, gentle." But he keeps doing it and laughing his head off.

Kathi

[kimmysue2]

I wanted a boy and got my son.

Small things I do. Tell him ALL the time "I love you". When he crys I never tell him "don't cry" I don't want him to think boys shouldn't cry. I ask him to tell me whats the matter. He is a big hugger and I tell him, you can always give me a hug even when you big.

[megincl]

just wanted to insert a small thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post. i am so inspired by your parenting! the world will definitely be a better place with all these little guys populating it as they grow!

thanks
megin

[pip]

Megin , this is a great thread, and I'm sure everyone who has read it has learned something. Good on you for bringing it up.

I come from a family of girls, and was frankly terrified when I found out I was having a boy, although I knew from day one that this was the case. I have read loads of books like many others here, and at the moment am reading 'The trouble with boys" which goes into how it is so hard for boys growing up today, and why many become so isolated/shut down. It is so sad! Boys are treated harsher from infancy by many people, and when they get together with peers, it can be hard. There is a story about a little boy whose dad parented equally, who went to a playhouse and started to play 'making dinner'. The other children laughed and said, 'daddies don't cook'. This poor little boy said 'mine does' , then walked out and according to his dad never played in the playhouse again. It does make me worry for my son when he gets older.

The book does make a very important point that it is hard for boys as they can't see what dad does all day. He's often absent at some mystical 'work' , whereas girls can easily play out what they see as their future role from watching mum (stereotypes obviously, but more mums are at home!). I think it is really important for dads (or male influences/adult friends etc.) to help their sons and show them that it is important to limit your superior strength and care for, not hurt, others, hence the learning role in play wrestling that boys love.

Fortunately my gorgeous husband cries at the drop of a hat (E.R. is a certain tearjerker for him) so Luka will get to see that men can show their emotions.

Sorry this is so long......just wanted to say thanks again for bringing this up. It is so comforting to know that there are so many boys who are being raised by people carefully considering these issues.

Hooray for our gorgeous baby boys in their purple clothes and flowery diapers (mine is anyway :) )

[nancy926]

I was sure I was having a boy (no u/s, I just "knew") -- and got my daughter! I grew up playing with boys and have more male friends than female...I think I just figured I'd "have" to have a boy!

It's interesting to read this thread and think about what I'd do differently if she had been a boy...not too much, I don't think. She does wear dresses (go figure - I hate dresses but she doesn't, so far) and I probably would not dress my son in dresses (until he was old enough to ask for them, anyway!) but she also wears sweatshirts with sports themes. She loves cars and trucks, but also loves dolls.

I think it's important to raise both genders to see that they can do anything they want to and don't have to follow some "rules" about what boys or girls can or can't do (cry, wear purple-flowered shirts, play baseball, etc). I agree w/the previous poster that living our lives in this way is important. I have to be careful not to swing too far the other way though! For example, i never learned to cook because I "learned" as a kid that it was a girl thing to do and I didn't want to be a stereotypical "girl". (Luckily DH is an awesome cook and a patient teacher...I'm getting there!)


:)
Nancy

[gus'smama]

This is a very interesting thread. I admit that it is much easier for me to clearly bend/defy gender stereotypes for a girl than for a boy (eg, girl in blue sports theme outfit vs my boy in a pink flowery thing). Then again, my ds is only 17 mos and does not yet show preference in the clothing store :). Once he is able to ask/point whatever and make it clear he wants something, I think I'll be okay w/ it.

I also want to reiterate what some posters have said about not swinging too far in one direction -- some *kids*, boys or girls, are just not into dolls, nurturing play and want to go go go, play rough, play with trucks and guns etc. I think it is really about paying attention to your kid as an individual, and encouraging them to express themselves honestly.

For me, that is likely to be most difficult. Sorting out *my* responses and sublte biases to interests he expresses as he gets older. Right now, he is a baby so anything goes, yk?

hmm, not to ramble, but I'm thinking more about this as I realize how I have handled some things w/ my 11 yo foster son. FI, he wanted a diary. We went to the store and all the kid diarys (w/ locks etc) were very pre-teen girl geared. I admit, I cringed, I balked, I showed him some nice gender neutral blank books. He still wanted the diary. I bought it. I did explain to him that it was something that a lot of kids would think was for girls, and that he might get picked on if he brought it to school. I'm not sure if I think this kind of warning is good/neccessary/appropriate. J, my foster son, has many social skills difficulties and has a hard time fitting in, making and keeping friends (all of which are desperately important to him), so I do feel like I need to point things out to him so that he can make a choice. He did decide that he didn't care, and brought it to school anyway :)

That does make me wonder what others think about warning kids explicitly about the possibility of getting teased by other kids for crossing the gender boundaries?

I am reminded of a friends little boy, whose favorite color in kindergarten was HOT pink. He had an adorable pair of pink corduroy overalls that he wore *constantly*. Would I warn my son in that type of situation? On one hand, I'd hate for him to get to school and be totally shocked and crushed if someone said something. OTOH, I wouldn't want to convey that *I* thought he shouldn't wear them. My hope would be to be able to prepare the kid for any teasing, and help him plan how to deal. But, then again, is seems like he shouldn't *have* to!

oh, boy, am I rambling!!!

[hergrace]

An extremely sensitive and articulate actor I knew a few years back said something I have never forgotten. When asked how he was able to access so many emotions in his work, he said "I was lucky. As I was growing up, my mother asked me how I felt every night before bed. So, I always knew my own feelings."

I hope I can bring the same sensitivity to raising my son.

One thing I know I will be able to draw on is my own exerience as a child. I never wanted girlie toys and never got to have the boy toys that I wanted. I expect to actually talk to Patrick about that experience. Though I probably won't tell him right away that, to me, the best thing about Barbies was that if you spun their limbs around enough, they came off. ;-)

Dh is very good. When Patrick is upset or angry and vocal about it, dh says "That's right. You tell it how it is.' I love hearing it - it happens to be the same phrase he said to me as I chanted and grunted through labor, but I aso think it is the right sentiment with Patrick.

I have also been trying to make sure that I give some of his stuffed toys girls names.

[wende]

I've got 2 girls and 2 boys. The way that I curb it is to just go with the flow of my children. My oldest girl is a "tomboy" who doesn't like sports. She likes her hip hop dance class and wears mostly sweats. She's into science. I encourage the things that SHE likes and don't push what I like onto her. She does get forced into a dress once a year for Christmas pictures, but even that has been made into a joke recently. My younger dd is all girl. She is called "princess", but she is also very athletic. We encourage her to do the things that she likes. My oldest ds is a very sensitive boy. He likes his baby doll, he likes to dress up in his sisters clothes and wear make-up when the girls are doing play make-up. He has also gained quite a liking to superhero's and army guys. I have a harder time accepting the army stage that he's going through than I do his make-up wearing. My youngest ds is only 7 months, but for the last month, I kid you not, EVERY single stranger who's commented on him, no matter what he's wearing has said "oh, she's so pretty!" and then they ask "umm, it is a girl, right?" When they find out he's a boy, they always appologize profusely as if I'm going to get mad and I just smile and say "It's no problem, he really is very beautiful".

I think that you can't shield your kids from everything in this world, and trying to can cause more damage than good. Instead go with your childs personality and encourage non-gender specific toys along with gender specific toys, both genders. Eventually they will see that they are loved no matter who they are, "all boy", "girly-girl", "queer", or even a little of each.

[spatulagirl]

This is such a great thread! When I found out I was having a boy I read all the books I could to try and get ideas on how I could raise him to not be conscious of gender. I got great ideas and DH and I do our best but even DH drives me crazy sometimes. I am pretty sure it doesn't help that we are surrounded by military (DH is Navy) which often means traditional gender role models. We are even stationed overseas and our host country is probably even worse. I swear any language that requires you to speak your gender makes it hard to fight those gender stereotypes.

Here's a question. I am curious what you would do in this situation. Ds has a friend who has a pink box of dress-up clothes. It is all traditional girl clothes with tutus and capes and sequins and tiaras. He LOVES it. He dresses up all pretty and runs around pretending to be a super hero. I think it's great. Dh thinks it is fine for when we are over there. The parents of DS's friend thinks it is a little weird but we don't care about them. When I told DH that we should get the same dress-up box for DS he balked. DS loves it so much, why shouldn't he have it at home? Any ideas on how I can win DH over? Maybe if I promise to balance it with a traditional boys dress-up trunk?

One thing we are doing is enrolling him in dance next year. It is the only activity for three-year-olds offered. I think he will really like it, he loves physical activity. Already we get funny looks and comments when we mention that we will enroll him if he wants. I want to know when dance only became an activity for boys? One person mentioned to us how it will help DS for his sports later on! What if he doesn't want to play sports? Wht if he just wants to dance?

It is so hard to raise a boy when you are surrounded by people like that!