What am I missing (NCSS related)?

[pinkmommy]

I read The No Cry Sleep Solution a while back -- when oldest DS was about 3 and DD was about 1 1/2. I did gleen some helpful info from the book, but it just all seemed so complicated and in the end I guess me desire to change my children's sleep/nursing habits was not as high as necessary to make the changes suggested in the book.

I also read Good Nights by Jay Gordon -- maybe six months after NCSS. This book seemed to have some ideas that worked better for us. IMO, Dr. Gordon seems to support the family bed in a positive, realistic way. Although we didn't do all of the stuff in hsi book right away, I think it was ultimately the ideas he suggested in his book which allowed me to night wean DD when she was 2.9 yrs old. Night weaning DD really helped. However, it happend about a week before second DS was born -- so I'm back to nursing thru the night. Right now, we have four in our king size bed and our oldest DS is in a toddler bed right next to it.

That is some background where I am coming from.

I re-read NCSS the other day -- mostly the part about sleep for babies 0 - 4 months (my baby is 2 1/2 months). The main gist of this part of the book is to not hold your baby as he sleeps or while he is sleeping -- to put your baby down when he is very sleepy and let him fall to sleep on his own. This isn't news to me. I read/was told this even when my oldest was a newborn. I have tried it over and over will all of my children including my baby. It doesn't work. If I put my baby down when he is almost a sleep, he wakes right up. No amount of patting, singing, touching, etc will get him back to sleep. I pick him back up and nurse back down to a state of almost asleep and try again. No go. Even if I nurse my baby to a deep sleep and set him down, 80% of the time he wakes within 5 minues. The other 20% of the time, I get a whopping half hour out of it. I've tried this from day one and have not seen any change. Of course, I pretty much have given up and put him in the sling and he sleeps fine there -- or in my arms. What am I doing wrong?

I have tried a number of things to help my baby as I put him down: a warmed up place to put him, white noise, an object that has my scent on it, a swing, a vibrating bouncy seat. None of it seems to work. I am holding him in my arms as I type -- lots of nosie around and he is sleeping soundly.

I have mixed feelings about baby wearing. Don't get me wrong -- I think it is a wonderful thing and I wear my baby a lot. I am a sling/carrier addict and have a variety of slings that work as well as they can given that fact that 1) my 2 1/2 month old is just about 18 pounds, 2) I have chronic back pain and some disc problems, 3) I am a busy mom of three with a lot to do and 4) I am not in the best shape. I know there are cultures where the baby is worn a lot and the mothers are able to go about their routine with a baby in a sling. That's not me. I do a lot of things with my baby in the sling, but there are limits. And what I realize about baby wearing cultures is that there is generally a lot more family/community support than what I have in my life. I have no family nearby to give me a break (other than DH who is an incredible father and is fumbling thru being overwhelmed and overtired along side me). I have a few friends but none that would frequently be able to give me a break. My baby is not passed around to aunts, grandparents, cousins and close friends. He is held or worn by me about 22 hours a day. The other two hours he is either in my husband's arms or maybe in a swing.

I have conflicting feelings about this.

I am just wondering why my babies cannot be put down. Are babies really put down without CIO at all? How? Should I give up trying to put my baby down? Should I work at it some more?

BTW, my oldest is now a GREAT sleeper and I never thought I'd see the day that would happen. DD is an ok sleeper -- getting better. I remind myself this too shall pass.

[Amandzia]

You sound a bit stressed but you also sound as if you are doing quite well. I just make it up as I go. I don't always do things as other's would. I remember how my friend was so aghast at my twins' pasifier use, and now her newborn uses one.
With twins it wasn't physically possible for me to wear them all of the time. They are fine and well attached to me. One is very outgoing and the other more reserved. I parent them the same and they are different . One needs more snuggles at night than the other. I haven't nursed them to sleep in a long time, but they still wake up. I didn't find the No Cry Sleep Solution helpful, but I have friends who love it. I read everything and then improvise.
My first child was a light sleeper and we spent more stressful nights than with the twins, although with the twins I don't think I slept for more than an hour at a time for the first year. Some day you'll get to sleep. This too shall pass. My 12 yr old still stays up later than I'd like, but she doesn't need to be held, she just reads quietly in her room. Every kid is different, you aren't doing anything wrong. It will get easier, trust me. Until then, hang in there and good luck.

[pageta]

First of all, go to a chiropractor to get your back worked on. You'll feel so much better and things will be so much less overwhelming.

Second, I only have one child, but I trully believe that every child is different when it comes to sleeping. With ds, from day 1 at the hospital, he refused to sleep anywhere but on my chest with me in a semi-reclined position. So in those early weeks, we spent many nights on the couch with him in the sling on my chest. I remember how excited I was when I discovered that after he'd been asleep for an hour, he was asleep deep enough that I could put him down to sleep in his bassinet next to my bed. It had to be on his tummy, but we were breastfeeding and doing many other SIDS prevention things that most parents don't do so I was willing to take my chances in order to sleep in my own bed. Then the time he had to be asleep before I put him down gradually got shorter. Basically I had to be in tune to what his limits were. Even now at 7 1/2 months, I either hold him or nurse him to sleep and when I put him down he sometimes wakes up and I have to hold him a little longer before I put him down again.

I think sleeping changes a lot at three months because they are finally past that fourth trimester, but then you have issues such as milestones like sitting that cause sleep disruptions. I've read the books that say to put them down before they yawn the second time or before they're asleep so they can learn to go to sleep on their own. Frankly, I think that works when the child is ready for it to work. I can do that sometimes but not all the time now.

You can say I have a good sleep. I can take ds to his crib at 4 a.m. when he wants to play, put him down and tell him to play as long as he wants and then go to sleep, and when I wake up at 7 a.m. he's sound asleep in his crib. But I can't just put him in his crib at 3 p.m. and expect him to fall asleep - no, he cries inconsolably if I do that. I have to nurse him to sleep or let him fall asleep in the sling or on my lap.

I have a friend who says when her dd was my ds's age, she had to let her dd play with her hair for an hour and a half before she'd fall asleep - and her dd was be in the crib and she would be leaning over it for an hour and a half. To me, that is ridiculous. I would never do that.

My point is, every child has their limits and those limits change at different ages. Frankly, I spend as little time as possible getting ds to go to sleep. I do whatever works, and I refuse to worry about whether or not I can lay him down in his crib when he's almost asleep and have him go to sleep like the books say. Each child is different.

I trully believe you're about through this. Once your baby hits three months, he will be more interested in being on the floor playing or just looking around. Right now he doesn't care about that. At six months, he'll want to sit on the floor and play. Having to wear him in the sling all day will come to an end - I promise you. In the mean time, my advice is, do whatever it takes to help him go to sleep and stay asleep the easiest without doing any more than you have to. There's nothing wrong with testing the limits just a little. I do it all the time, so I have a pretty good handle on what I can get away with and what I can't. And believe me, it does change.

Hang in there - this too shall pass!

[perditafoster]

OOOOOOOHHHHH, I second the chiropractor, if you can afford it. It can be very expensive, but it's so worth it. me, dh, and dd all go :) As far as what you're doing wrong, have you read Dr. Sears's book "The Fussy Baby Book?" Not that I think your wee one is fussy, but the book is about high-needs babies. That book is never far from me. I re-read parts of it on a weekly basis. Seriously. It helps me cope so much better with my dd who sounds just like your babe. From day one she wouldn't be coaxed into falling back asleep after I laid her down. Nope, nope, nope. Dr. Sears has all sorts of tricks and encouragement in his book. I highly recommend it. And I agree with the other posts that there's nothing really that you can do--just exist. And parent like Norma Jane Bumgarner says in her "Mothering YOur Nursing Toddler:" she says to just be as lazy as possible! good luck and I hope you get some rest soon...:love

[carrietorgc]

www.miracleblanket.com - it made such a huge difference for us. she could be put down! it is amazing what swaddling will do to improve sleep. the site has a totally $ back guarantee - I def. rec trying it. My mom made my dd a larger blanket based on the pattern and we are still using it at 9 mo (lol, most kids do outgrow it by now). she can sleep without it, just prefers it this way :)

[Liliana]

We spent a long time learning how to set down a sleeping baby. The parent has to learn what stage of sleep to wait for and what gentle motions to use. The baby has to learn that it's OK to be set down. I started out laying her on a blanket on the floor so I could go down to laying next to her to transition. (Don't know if the floor thing works with other kids around) If it wakes the baby up give up for that nap or that day but try again. Maybe it's a maturity thing, but I thought it was practice and patience.

However, some days you see the signs that the baby is sleeping lightly and know to not even try.

Hope this makes sense.

[poppy'smama]

hi rondi

just wanted to let you know how i've been getting on using NCSS. DD is 14 months old and always co-slept till around 1 year when she stopped sleeping well in our bed, would wake up a lot, wriggle, want to play, wake every time i moved etc. So bought NCSS and decided to work on gentle ways to help her sleep better. (BTW - when I decided to end co-sleeping she would wake sometimes as often as every 15 mins to half hour looking to nurse!)

I started NCSS plan in mid Jan, so almost 2 months ago now, but recently had 3 weeks of illness followed by bad teething so reverted to co-sleeping for that period, so i haven't done it every day since i started and had a farily long break recently, but i have still seen progress. Not complete change, but progress and i think this is the thing with NCSS, it can take quite a long time to work. The things i've really been working on were getting her to fall asleep on her own in cot and reducing nightwakings and nightfeedings. I've been using pantley's Gentle removal technique, and gradually worked up over the two months so that now I don't let her doze off on the breast but feed her before stories, then read stories while she is drowsy then put her in cot. She often cries out for me so I pick her up hold her comfort til she's calm then put her back down. So I am also using the pick-up put-down method from the baby whisperer book, but just kind of adapting it to my own needs. then i sing, use keywords, pat her back, wiggle her bottom to help her fall asleep. Sometimes this can take as little as 5 mins, sometimes as long as 20 mins, sometimes i pick her up and put her down say 20 times, sometimes i just lay her down and she goes off with me singing, sshhing etc.

All of these things have definitley brought progress. Last night for instance, she only woke 3 times and fed at 2.30 then 4.45 then slept till 7.30, this is so much better than where i was 2 months ago i can't believe it! not every night is like this, but i know we're heading in the right direction. sometimes it's 1 step forwards 3 steps back, and it's not easy or quick but i know will help her to sleep peacefully and happily without CIO. THere are occasionally a few tears, (not many), but i always pick her up if she starts to cry, so any tears are shed in the arms of her loving mama.

Hope some of this helps

amy, mama to poppy 14 months