anyone else ready to GET OUT OF DEBT? [Archive]

Peppermint

05-02-2004, 07:09 AM

So, does anyone have a timeline?

I am hoping that in 2 years the credit card debt will be gone(our car payments too, which will just leave us with dh's student loan and the mortgage). I am finally getting serious about it, cancelled cable and everything :wink. Luckily for me dh has to have the internet connection for his job :). Right now I feel like there is no place else for us to cut back, and we recently took a few hits that have cooled my fire a bit.

I had hoped that when we sold our rental house (Made $3000) that that would help, but it really just seemed to catch us up. Dh was going to cash in an investment account he has for retirement (I know all the financial people say not to ever do that) but found out that though the value right now is around $6000, we would only get like $3000 or $4000 if we did that, so we realized that really was a stupid idea. Then, there is the fact that we usually get money back on taxes (usually between $2000 and $3000) and this year we ended up paying around a thousand to the government :eek, and then there was the health insurance hit, we now have to pay $650 a month out of pocket to cover our family, and we owe $2000 for the recent birth of our baby. When it rains it pours :(. We know how lucky we are in other areas though :wink, and we are aware that our debt is our own fault, which doesn't make us feel better, but does make us determined.

Dh is talking about taking a second job, and I don't want to resort to that, b/c the kids will only be this small once, YK? I won't take any out of home jobs right now, b/c this is sadly my last baby, and I am going to cherish every moment, besides the fact that he is nursing and won't take a bottle.

So- at this point it's basically "make ends meet and aquire no new debt". I am going to babysit a 5 1/2 year old for the summer, and then after school too. I also sell some stuff we make on ebay- but that is sooo not a reliable income. I am thinking about starting Usborne book sales. As far as the "making ends meet" right now I am selling off random things on ebay and the TP, and in 2 weeks we are having a garage sale :rolleyes. I am also asking my brother and SIL to give us a few months off of our car payment to them until dh can get a job with cheaper health insurance.

We have switched our credit cards to ones with 0% interest for the next year(and cancelled the old ones :thumb) so at least our minimum payments make some small difference.

Anyone else ready to share more details? I'd like this to become a "tribe" where we can work towards our goals together and support each other through all this.

I'll tell you one thing, after we pull ourselves out, this won't happen again(which is our reason for not doing bancruptcy-no offense to those that has worked for- we qualify- we just feel we HAVE to do this ourselves!)

Glad you other ladies are here :), I am too embarrassed to talk to RL friends and family about what we have gotten ourselves into :(.

Breathe

05-06-2004, 08:35 PM

Hey Patty, you must be feeling kinda exposed after putting all those personal details out there with no reposnse, huh?!? I just found this thread and am intrigued, altho I must admit that my head has been solidly in the sand since ds was born so I really couldn't lay out the details of our finances if I wanted to! (I grew up basically in poverty -- child of 2 eternal grad students -- so money stuff is just scary for me. Used to have to donate my babysitting money so my parents could buy milk -- at age 12.)

I can say that while we were both fortunate to get full fellowships to pay for undergrad and grad schools, we accumulated credit card debt for living expenses in those years (now 4 years ago!). Wanna hear our little trick?

We (actually, all dh's creativity) have shifted the debt from one 0% card to another . . . for 4 years! So we feel pretty darn good that we haven't payed a cent of interest -- it's been free money, really, and therefore not worth it to pay it off. The assumption has been that one day dh's ivy league degrees will lead to some good income for us (ahem, WHEN is that going to happen?!?!?) and that we'd be in a better position to pay off the debt in the future. Dh calls it "borrowing against future income" which is, apparently, a legit econ concept. (I have taken his word for it!)

The rub is, we have not been saving to pay off this "free money" -- not a penny! We do save $50/mos for ds's college, but nothing else. His birth (now 2.5 yrs ago) is still on the CC, as are all vacations we've taken in the last 4 years. We also pay $450 a month for health ins, and also owed taxes this year -- unbelievable! We have cut cable, too (altho can't get rid of the internet!), cut one cell phone, and are always looking for stuff to sell, but cannot seem to curb our eating out habit. Between that and the organic groceries, almost ALL of our money goes to food and mortgage. And 2nd mortgage, which we had to take out to pay off other debts! AAAAAHHHH!

I can't seem to get committed to paying things off. I keep waiting for dh to get a huge raise, but it just has not materialized and I know we are living on borrowed time.

So I'm all for a little motivation. Fire away!

Peppermint

05-06-2004, 08:49 PM

I did kind of :scratch that I got no responses to that, but people are funny about mony I guess. I don't tell people IRL b/c then they either pity you or think you are stupid :LOL.

I am just finally ready to take responsibility for our situation and go along the slow road of getting us out.

Thanks for sharing Breathe. :love

chiromama

05-06-2004, 09:01 PM

I'd love to join this thead.. we did it a few years back ( got out of debt) and have managed to stay out... except for my student loans ( $130 K) and house and cars... I'd love to get rid of the student loans!!

Celtain

05-06-2004, 10:52 PM

So here we are trying to get out of debt, and my car has become unsafe to drive and the repairs are to expensive to justify. So off we go to the car store, but our credit is so bad, we are going to pay 16% interest :eek but there isn't an early payoff penalty. So here's hoping we can pay it off early. let's keep this thread alive and support one another, I know I need it!!!!

comet

05-07-2004, 06:33 AM

Just popping in to wish you all good luck! I got out of debt 10 yrs ago and it was incredibly worth it. FWIW, what worked for me was to cut way back in every area of spending and just hold that line for a few years. Initially I thought it would only take 6 months (silly me) but it did take about 2-3 years. Also, we put away the credit cards and only bought things if we had cash for it.

After that, our income rose enough so that we haven't had any problem spending more than we have. So I am pretty sure *that* problem is licked for now.

Peppermint

05-07-2004, 08:06 AM

Glad to see others working toward this goal- Comet thanks for sharing that you were able to do it--that must be a really great feeling when it's all over.

Lucky Charm

05-07-2004, 08:10 AM

I wish this thread was here a few months ago.

we recently paid off $6,000 in credit card debt over 3 months. they are all in the freezer except for my american express, which i cary. i dont consider it a credit card in the true sence, because i have to pay it off every month. and i have to really watch what i spend on it because of that.

We want to refinance our home, current interest rate is 6.5%, but its and FHA loan, so i have to see what my options are.

We have one car payment. I'd love to send $1000 month until its paid off, but i'm not sure we can do that.

PikkuMyy

05-07-2004, 11:57 PM

We're up to our ears in debt - home equity loan and CC and some student loans (but their interest is really low). WE'd love to pay it off but they've been building and building because we don't make enough money to live on. Our monthly bills are: 2 cell phones, 1 car insurance (car is paid), 1 house insurance, regular phone and electricity, internet. We don't have TV.

But I'm in school part time and work only part time and DH is unemployed, making money on eBay. He makes a heck of a lot that way, but it's still not enough for us. So we had the home equity line and used that to pay off some cc debt as the interest is much lower, we just got it raised and will pay off some more. Then we just have to hang in there until we eventually sell the house and pay off all the debts with part of the money. The thing is that we have to fix up the house quite a bit before we can sell it, and furthermore, we have tenants whose rent money pays for OUR rent money, so if they left so we could sell the house, how would we pay our rent!?!?!

It's all a fuddle. But we're trying. We spend every penny we can towards those bills and DH is desperately trying to find more ways to make money. (He's a writer, so good luck in that line of work, KWIM?)

I know we'll make it out, particularly since we have this house and by next year I'll have my master's degree, but until then...

WesleysMom

05-08-2004, 12:09 AM

I had all of my CC's paid off until I became addicted to cloth diapering. But I am working on knocking those out. Of course don't know how long they will stay paid off due to the fact that I am in school and will be for a few years due to what I want to do. DH is in Korea and we have to buy the plane tickets for his midtour visit home.

Celtain

05-11-2004, 07:50 PM

OK, starting slowly. I Quit smoking. I dropped the digital cable down to basic cable. Bill went from $75 a month to $20 a month. Got a clothesline, I live in Florida for crying out loud, bet it dries faster on the line than in the dryer!! Let's hear some more!!!!!!!

Peppermint

05-11-2004, 08:09 PM

Quit smoking? HOORAY! :clap That is huge in and of itself! How fabulous!

Well, I just cashed in a life insurance policy that my parents started when I was 4, so that I can pay our health insurance :rolleyes. I am now coupon shopping too (didn't ever realize how you could get stuff for free that way).

We are considering selling dh's car if he gets a job in the Fire Department (which we will know soon) then he'll either bike to work, I'll drive him, or he'll get a ride from another guy. Right now between car payments and insurance we pay $200 a month for his tiny car that we can't go anywhere as a family in, just not worth over $6 a day to have it.

I have a bridal shower and baby shower coming up in the next couple of weeks---dh is going to make a gift for the bridal shower (framed Irish Marriage Blessing- $2 walmart frame), but I promised to buy some cloth diapers for the baby shower- so- I'll have to spend some money there-sigh!

Any ideas anyone else?

kathsmom

05-13-2004, 05:56 AM

I would love to joing a "tribe" to get out of debt! We had some debt that we managed to pay off and for a few years, all we owed was the mortgage and my student loans. We eventually paid off the student loans, but had to get a new car, because mine literally died in the parking lot at the mall. Still, everything was manageable and I continued to be a SAHM.

Even when I was pregnant with my second child, things were going well for us. Then, DH took what we thought would be his dream job. Two months later, DH quit this "dream" job (it turned out to be the biggest nightmare) and was out of work for almost 2 months. We had DD in a small private school and DS was only 4 months old. So, we got behind due to the lack of income.

Then, the driveway cracked and buckled and had to be fixed. The trees had to be cut down/trimmed/pruned. DS has been sick a lot this winter and our insurance deductible was raised. Now we need a new washer and dryer.

Everytime I think that we will get ahead, we are thrown for another loop. We do have cable, but I consider that our entertainment, because we don't go to the movies, etc. We do need to cut out eating out so much.

I have checked out the website www.miserlymoms.com and there is a section on frugal tips and frugal recipes. I have also checked out www.cheapskatemonthly.com as well, but I am not a subscriber.

Good luck to you all!

ekblad9

05-13-2004, 06:43 AM

I'm in! The weight loss thread here at MDC has helped me lose weight so I'm all about cleaning up my finances as well! We do OK except we have one credit card that dh doesn't even know about. I used it a long time ago when I had PPD and shopping made me feel better. I've tried to pay it off ever since but the interest is unreal. Where do I go to get lower interest? I need to get rid of this CC debt. We're also paying off dh's car slowly and will be buying my next vehicle. I would love to own both the cars and have no CC debt in 5 years. Esp. since ds1 will be starting college in 6 years! Thanks for putting this thread here and for the honesty that's going into it! :thumb

Piglet68

05-13-2004, 12:34 PM

ekblad - you can try calling your credit card company to see if they will lower the interst.

your other choice is to apply for a new card - many cards have a zero-percent interest introductory rate (usually for the first few months) on balance transfers. This will save you some money. Perhaps you could keep applying and transfering (i think someone else here said they do that). of course, you have to be good about not using them, and cutting them up when the balance has been transferred. but that way you will be able to get the balance down faster.

DH and I have started to keep track of every expense. We save all receipts. Ones purchased with cash are just marked "cash" and all debits or cash withdrawals are recorded each day on a sheet of paper. It's really helping us.

I also made a big effort this month to bring snacks and lunch to work with me each day. I'm amazed at how much it is cutting down on my weekly spending. I didn't think I was spending that much on food at work - and I'm an experienced budgeter. It really does sneak up on you!

I also think that part of being frugal is developing the right attitude. As in "we are broke - do I really need this?". You wouldn't believe the things I go without b/c they are just not necessary. And "necessary" really changes in it's definition. Just a few things I'd like to buy are: a hairbrush (we only have a comb and my hairstyle is different now), a hairdryer, a popcorn popper, a new bathmat (ours is looking really grungy, but I wash it regularly so oh well), new batteries (DH has a milk frother and uses the batteries from the TV remote when he needs it, instead of buying more batteries), maternity underwear (I only have three pairs, my regular ones are not comfortable, I just have to remember to keep them in the wash cycle), new bras (my current ones are showing alot of wear, but they work and nobody sees them).

Now none of these things are expensive - I could probably get a hairbrush from walmart for a few bucks: the problem is, when you add them all up together, you end up with about $40 worth of things. and the fact is that NONE of these are necessities. They aren't food or toilet paper. So I go without them for now. It does help that I know this is a temporary situation for us, and somewhat self-imposed (drastic debt reduction program going on right now in our house!), but still....I'm amazed at how much you really CAN do without, when you recognize the difference between a Need and a Nice to Have One.

Breathe

05-13-2004, 12:55 PM

Hmmm . . . other ideas . . . How about calling around to comparison shop and be SURE you're paying for the cheapest car and home insurance? They change, you know, so you might be able to save some there.

Also, we cut back on dh's withholdings each month, bc we were getting huge tax refunds every year, but decided we needed the cash flow instead. We did end up owing ~$200 this year, which did hurt, but was probably better in the long run than having the govt "hold" our cash for a year.

Are you guys already washing and reusing your ziploc bags? Bringing home extra napkins from take-out restaurants? (We do use cloth napkins, but when we have guests for informal meals, they get the Chinese and Subway napkins!) Visted your dollar store lately? Some things there are a rip-off, but they have paper plates, art supplies, gift wrap, tupperware, and yes, probably hairbrushes Piglet! :D

And ABSOLUTELY everyone should transfer their CC balances to 0% cards -- TODAY!

My two weaknesses right now are eating out and buying clothes for ds. We were the first of friends and family to have a baby, so we got no hand-me-downs. So every time he hits a growth spurt I have to (read, GET TO!) buy him all new clothes. Of course I hit consignment first, but Target is often cheaper, and way cuter, than second-hand around here. And I simply cannot do the thrift store thing. I cannot stand the musty, moldy smell, HATE sifting thru all the crap (my girlfriend thinks of it as "treasure hunting") and I think I have flash-backs to my childhood of having to wear thrift shop clothes.

But I don't buy jewelry or make-up or music or books or clothes for myself or, or, or . . . !!! (oops, forgot you guys are not dh!) ;)

Peppermint

05-13-2004, 01:12 PM

I took the kids to the Picture People yesterday with one of those free sitting, free 8x10 coupons, well, I liked 2 pictures- one of the 3 kids together and one of the baby alone, normally I would say "but they are pictures" and buy the baby's pic. too at $15 for one picture. But, I said to myself- NO- you have more coupons at home, and you can come back tomorrow if you really need another professsional baby picture this month.

I also thought ahead and took lunch with us to eat in the food court while we waited for the pic.s to be ready. I only paid for the kids to ride the carousel ($2) and a single small frosty from Wendy's that we all shared, granted I could've spent nothing- but I did do better than my usual $20-$30 trip for a free pictures :thumb.

I have to use part of my aforementioned life insurance cash in to cut down a dead tree in our backyard (it is completely dead and is huge, big enough to hit our house or the neighbors in a storm). The rest though- will pay health insurance and credit card debt.

YUCK! I can't believe we got ourselves so far into debt in only 5 years of marriage. I hope to teach my kids how to use money and not abuse it, and the best start to that is DOING better ourselves.

I am thankful to have you ladies here, I think we really can support each other.

Piglet- great points about need vs. would be really nice to have :).

ekblad9

05-13-2004, 01:39 PM

Going to try and transfer that balance now...... :thumb

wednesday

05-13-2004, 02:16 PM

My two weaknesses right now are eating out and buying clothes for ds. We were the first of friends and family to have a baby, so we got no hand-me-downs. So every time he hits a growth spurt I have to (read, GET TO!) buy him all new clothes. Of course I hit consignment first, but Target is often cheaper, and way cuter, than second-hand around here. And I simply cannot do the thrift store thing. I cannot stand the musty, moldy smell, HATE sifting thru all the crap (my girlfriend thinks of it as "treasure hunting") and I think I have flash-backs to my childhood of having to wear thrift shop clothes.

I so feel you on the issue of not liking thrift store shopping, Breathe. There are a couple I have gone into where just the smell practically brought tears of despair to my eyes. But I have found a couple others that are better, where there is no smell and the clothes are in good condition and there are dressing rooms. I also agree about children's consignment not being so much better than discount stores--we have a Carter's Outlet near us where they sell lots of outfits for $5-7 each, and they are brand new and cute and nice quality. Versus the consignment store where the prices are very similar but selection is poor and things are already somewhat worn. I'd be lucky to save a dollar per outfit. So now I just go to the Carter's store. (I also shamelessly beg from friends, co-workers, etc., so we have fortunately not needed to buy much clothing.)

Okay, my stats: 35K in CC debt accumulated while DH and I were in school. I owned a money-pit of a house and had a car payment as well while I was putting myself through school--I got scholarships and student loans but they weren't enough. It seemed like the debt was going to a good cause, but neither DH nor I were fully aware of quite how much it was until I pulled my head out of the sand and started adding things up. We have an additional 75K or so in student loan debt. And another 10K on a car, although fortunately my car has been paid off for a couple years now.

Despite all that debt, I thought we were making good progress on it and felt optimistic enough to TTC last year. I was planning to SAH and we would be paycheck-to-paycheck for a while but we were both really emotionally ready to be parents and felt like it would be way too long of a wait for our financial situation to be "perfect." We thought it would be okay to just tread water financially for a couple years. We also thought I could figure out something to WAH to bring in a little income.

Little guy is here now and he is the light of our lives...but then DH was laid off when I was 6 weeks pp. I went straight back to work (at half DH's salary) and DH is doing the SAHD thing while I pump. It is mostly working out. Except for the part about how DH's unemployment benefits run out in two weeks and at that point there is no way to meet our bills on just my salary. The part that really kills is that I make a reasonable amount; we are very slightly above the income cut-off for things like food stamps or earned income credit. But if you were to subtract our student loan payments (total of $500/month) from my salary we would totally qualify for assistance. At the same time, the student loan folks don't consider us needy enough for deferment either.

I try not to worry about it too much because I will just make myself sick...but our situation is pretty scary. I want to pay back our debt because were it not for that we would be getting by okay right now. It would be tight, but doable. It is because of our debt that it is a crisis, and I hate that. Don't even know how to make a plan to get ahead when we can't even get by now.

ekblad9

05-13-2004, 02:41 PM

I can totally relate! While we finally paid off student loans last year it took us forever to do it! So now we're scraping by (we don't live lavishly but we do have plenty to eat, wear, etc.). I stress about it a ton mostly because if dh really knew what we owed he would freak out. I know it's part of a "normal" live. One CC with $9,000.00 is a ton but about the national average. That's all we have besides the cars and typical bills. I just want that gone. We've paid it off a million times. I was so freaking depressed. Don't even know what I bought! :eek Isn't that awful? I'm so embaressed. I totally drag dh down when it comes to money. He would've been fine had I not come into his life. Poor guy. I feel totally guilty. :(

Breathe

05-13-2004, 02:54 PM

I totally drag dh down when it comes to money. He would've been fine had I not come into his life. Poor guy. :(

Oh yeah. Me too. Dh actually paid off my modest CC bill when we got married. So we started off well. But grad school really will kill your finances, won't it? I SO feel for you guys with school loans, and it makes me realize how lucky we are to have only the CC debt, which is soundling more and more reasonable. If you guys can pay off thousands and thousands of dollars, we can certainly manage our small debt, and you're helping me commit to really tackling it. Thanks for being so candid!

Oh, and this is not a way to get OUT of debt, per se, but if you do have equity in your home, you can use it to pay off CC or cars, and then write the interest off on your taxes. Just another stall tactic, I guess! We've also used a "courtesy deed of trust" which basically sold our car back to the credit union so we could get the cash out of it -- for home maintenance, another black hole for money! -- and then we paid pack the loan as if it were a car loan. Not a solution for a debt, but a way to get cash without CCs.

wakeUpMama, we're in NC too and also have a Carter's outlet . . . we could be neighbors! (But I think Target is even cheaper and the quality is just as good. Oh, my love/hate relationship with corporate America!) :)

Celtain

05-13-2004, 03:20 PM

I totally hear where you are coming from. We are living paycheck to paycheck, problem is the paycheck doesn't cover the bills, so I just went back to work nights so we don't have to pay for daycare.

Peppermint

05-13-2004, 04:08 PM

Oh, yes, we too are making just enough money that we do not currently qualify for any services, the only one we want/need is the health insurance. Of course (rightfully so) they do not take into account credit card debt/payents.

I think the varying amounts of debt here are good, hopefully we will soon see some of us (not me :wink) get out of debt, which will encourage the rest of us to keep on plugging along.

I tell you though, if I didn't BF, cloth diaper, and make most everything from scratch- we would be in soooo much more debt.

I still think health insurance is a total crock, at least with the way my dh's current employer handles it. Grrrrr!

Do any of you get really depressed by your debt situation? That was what prompted me to start this thread- I couldn't take the guilt/worry anymore and MUST get out.

Ekblad- are there any saints to pray through for finances :) I can use all the help I can get! :)

blondemama

05-13-2004, 06:26 PM

I love money saving taticts! Breathe, thankyou so much for writing that about the home equity because we just got approved for doing just that today. I've been uneasy, wondering if this was truly the right thing to do.

We cut the interest rate down 1/2 percent. $6,000 of credit cards will be paid off. We're taking the grass out of the front yard and putting in rocks. Water is very expensive here and that will save us about $90 a month. We're putting in french doors which I think will add value to the home. And we're going to be able to finish the 1950 ford pick-up truck. And, we still have equity in the home.

Their was no way that we could've or would've purchased a used or new vehicle for my husband. So we found a gutted truck and are putting it back together ourselves. We'll have a brand new truck for about $7,000. My husband will always be able to repair it himself saving us more money in repairs. Now my vehicle won't need to be driven around so much since I've been taking him to work and back saving us money and mileage.

I don't buy clothes at thrift stores, but I've found pretty much brand new appliances at them. Washer and dryer, barbecue grill, lawn mower. I also hang the clothes to dry in the summer. I don't mind drying in the winter since the heat is on anyway.

My parents took on our 20k student loan and put it on their house line of credit for 4% interest. Why couldn't they have done that 3 years ago? :bang
Hopefully, we can pay it off pretty quick now.

Medical bills drain our money and I have no idea how to solve that one. I think insurance companies are extremely dishonest and I loathe them. We don't have cell phones, we have cable but need a cable modem for DH work. The rest of our bills are water, electric etc. One can check out free movies at the library instead of renting. I grow as much food as I can which isn't much but that saves a little and is much healthier. Not going to stores also saves money. If you can't see it, you won't want it. I also have energy saving light bulbs in most lights I have. No lights are allowed in the daytime. A person can wet themself, turn off the water, lather, then rinse off. I do take an occasional bath with dead sea salts or a hot shower in winter though. This is a great thread.

chiromama

05-13-2004, 07:15 PM

your other choice is to apply for a new card - many cards have a zero-percent interest introductory rate (usually for the first few months) on balance transfers. This will save you some money. Perhaps you could keep applying and transfering (i think someone else here said they do that).

You have to be really careful with this..... we tried it a few years ago, and after we had applied and switched a couple of times, our credit didn't look so good anymore .. because there were too many inquiries on it. Also, even though you close the account, or cut up the card, it may still show up on your credit rating. (we have a card on ours that was closed 5 years ago!!!) and you have to call the company to have them remove it.
If you are going to apply and transfer, just try and keep it to a minimum to protect yourself :)
We have transfered all of our CC to an airline card.. so we get free miles! and we are finally using it to pay for everything, and then paying it off each month ( or mostly) it is helping a lot!

I'd love to get rid of my 130K in student loans....

kerc

05-13-2004, 08:24 PM

I've heard great things about Your Money or Your Life a book on assessing your personal goals and moving toward them.

I am a grad student. My dh is also a grad student. We managed to have an unplanned baby in the middle of graduate school. Although we were ALREADY financially strapped, needless to say we are more so. Before I got pg we had bought a house, so we couldn't move to a cheaper place...

our debt is:
~90 k student loans, most of which is in deferment.
2 k on a furnace (it is a good debt, reduces our gas bill, transferrable to next owner of house).
8 k on one car
4 k on the other
and about 5 k cc debt
(oh, plus our mortgage. silly me).

my financial tips:

be aware of how you are spending your money --- track every darn cent.
anything that is not on the list when you go to the grocery cannot be purchased until next week (we shop once a week).
stop in a store like target right before you get to the checkout lane and take out of the cart anything and everything that wasn't on the list. When I began this was half the cart for me, now it is more like 1 or 2 items.
when you are purcahsing something ask yourself -- can i live without it. can i pay cash? can i borrow it? can i find it used someplace?
buy an electric thermostat and use it. they are easy to install, reasonably cheap (ours was 30 bucks) and likely your landlord would be ok with it as well.
Once you are accustomed to using the thermostat, turn it down (heat) or up (ac) 1 or 2 degrees per week until you reach a reasonable level.
Line dry clothes
Skip the "snack" aisle at the grocery store - empty calories mostly. Buy fruit and veggies or yogurt, cheese, sandwiches, etc. for snacks. Some of these items are more expensive, but you are buying quality, not quantity.
Leave your cc at home unless you are traveling more than 20 minutes from home.
Water down juice. we like ours a bit watered down anyhow.
better yet, drink water.
Make a list of all debts and post it on the fridge. we are following a plan right now (will put more in a later post).
Never run 1/2 load of dishes or laundry.
Use 1/2 of things -- soap, laundry detergent, shampoo, toothpaste, etc.
Get off the catalogs list.
Stop purusing the trading post/ebay/your favorite online site when you don't need anything.
Goodwill shopping -- great place to get toys in my town.
Make a list of errands you run and try to plan them out so you aren't driving all over town -- saves your sanity, gas money and then you aren't stpping for fast food on the way.

kerc

05-13-2004, 08:31 PM

Here's the debt reduction plan:
i made a list of every company we owe money to, their interest rates and the monthly payment. Left side of paper is longest term loans (student loans in my case). right side is loans that we will pay off more rapdily. So...listed down the page are the amount we owe to each company as of each month. I used excel to calculate what the amount would be with interest. As we pay off one company we take that $$ amount and apply it to the next company. In my case ---> pay 200 for honda each month. in a year we are done paying that. When that time comes, we take the 200 for honda and begin mailing 200 +200 we had already been paying for acura. So when we pay off acura we will take 400 bucks and add it to the cc. so cc will get 450 per month. I think we likely are not getting the absolute best deal in terms of interest, but I can't seem to shuffle the interest around without fooling myself into thinking we'll have more money...which always leads to more debt. Not counting our mortgage and our st. loans which are in deferrment, we'll be out of debt in 4 years.

I expect when we finish school we will continue to do the same thing. Although I REALLY would like a different car. Sigh...making do for now.

newmainer

05-13-2004, 09:03 PM

Yea! I found you all!

How did I miss this thread when it started? I had been thinking of starting one myself for several weeks and then chickened out. But, here I am, ready to come clean.

Well, we were doing really good until just recently. When DH and I were engaged, we went to a financial planner who had done a training at my work. it was the biggest wake up call. He was an american express consultant who said, you guys are screwed. He gave us some great tips though, which I will share at the end.

So, at that time, we had about $20,000 in cc debt between the 2 of us. Luckily his parents paid for all of his college, but I had loans on deferment. anyway, in about 3 years we cut that in half. We literally cut up our cc after the meeting. we stopped eating out and buying stupid stuff (like $900 kayaks! ah, when you are young....)

So, skip ahead and now we've moved across the country i stay home with dd, and dh is a self employed programmer. He gets big contracts but guess where his last $8000 went to? TAXES! being self employed has killed us cause we needed every penny so we didn't set tax money aside. now we have a dedicated account and we cut a check from every invoice paid- NO EXCEPTIONS!

Well, we were so happy when we moved to Maine (from California) cause we could finally afford to buy a house. We bought a great- while *extreme* fixer upper (as in 30 years of smoking in the house) on a lake. We got an extra $33,000 from the bank to do the repairs. We put everything on a mileage credit card so could cash in miles. smart huh? until we got the latest bill and we are $12,000 over our $33,000 fix up!! aggggrrr! I mean, it was stuff we had to do, and the appraisal will show it, but now we have *2* credit cards with over 10,000 on them. I'm not even counting my student loans, mamas, which are about 16,000. Honestly, i dont count that as real debt. Its a like a mortgage to me.

so, our hope is that when all the work is done, we will have the house reappriased and refinance and pull the equity out and *maybe* even pay off both cards. Then our goal is to start buying some rental property so we can work up to having passive income. but, that's later- another thread on creating positive cash flow! (anyone read Rich Dad Poor Dad?)

so- tips.

well, our consultant said that the thing that ususally gets people in trouble is all the "occasional" expenses- like the things that only happen a couple times a year, or once a year like birthdays and holidays. people are good at budgeting for the month but then- doh! its christmas, or the car breaks down, or whatever, and you pull out the credit card. So, he had us make a list of all that stuff that we could think of and add it up, then divide it by 12. this was the amount of money we should put aside every month into a "cookie jar" account. So, we had our checking account for *only* monthlies, and then the cookie jar account for everything else- including clothes. so, theoretically, if you are religious about putting money in, and paying appropriately out of it, you dont have to do the cc thing. Of course, it takes several months for the account to build up.

He said the above was more important that paying above cc minimums because it will help you from putting more on the cards. We have been inconsistent with it, but are about to get back on track with it.

Next was to have a back up account of at least 3x our monthly income. So, if our expenses are 4000 a month, we need to save 12,000. That was if one of us is out of work or incapacitated in any way, we again dont' need to rely on credit cards. This is major, i mean, how can i justify saving 12,000 before paying off my 12,000 in debt? so, i struggle with this. I definitely see the point, so we have revised it to be a little less, but still having a savings for emergencies. (not that we have done this yet- its all in the "intentions" pile). I'm interested in what others think of this reasoning.

oh, and he said everyone needs fun money. even if its only $15 a month, each person needs to have something for themselves, or people cave. we did do this for awhile, i think it was $25. Dh was good- he always saved his up. I blew mine in the first week! we need to get back on that track.

The other things i have thought of doing is really, for one month, spending *only* on necessities (like the stuff Piglet was talking about) and comparing it to a previous month when I was a little more, uh, "free" with the money and then comparing to see how much extra i was spending- and on what. mostly as a wake up call thing (as if i need another one!)

well, that's my novel, mamas. I am grateful for the thread and the tips given so far! let's keep it going!!!!

Kelly

georgia

05-13-2004, 11:03 PM

May I join in? I've been a disciple of the Simple Living Guide and YMOYL for quite some time....but, after buying a very expensive, new old house, our world is crumbling around us (literally in some rooms!). We bought for location, but I'm SO regretting it. It is the perfect money pit. We're drowning in cc debt now. We've stopped using them, and my dh has worked out a plan. I've been crying off and on for about a week. I'm expecting our third little one in Aug/Sept---my dh already works two jobs. My mil owes us $5K (which my dh took out a loan for), but you know that saying about loaning money to relatives......I'm angry, depressed and not seeing any silver on the edges of these dark clouds. Keep telling myself that if $ is my only problem, I'm blessed...but this is so pervasive---I can't shake the doom. And I'm hungry---I'm not used to not having lots of food around the house :(

Thanks for listening!

ekblad9

05-14-2004, 07:41 AM

I had this really great post and ds3 walked up and hit delete. So, :hug and hang in there. I'm sorry for your troubles. :(

wednesday

05-14-2004, 08:26 AM

wakeUpMama, we're in NC too and also have a Carter's outlet . . . we could be neighbors! (But I think Target is even cheaper and the quality is just as good. Oh, my love/hate relationship with corporate America!) :)

Breathe, I am near two Carter's Outlets--one in Burlington and one in the outlet mall near RDU airport. I love Target too, we got a great little pair of shorts there on clearance for $2!

bamboogrrrl

05-14-2004, 01:21 PM

Wow - You mamas are doing so well in facing your debts and handling it - I'm impressed! Sometimes facing it is the hardest part. I have become a diehard "Your Money or Your Life" person, and living debt-free is my ultimate goal, with just our mortgage left. I HATE paying that bill every month. YMOYL is connected to the Simple Living Discussion forums, which have a lot of likeminded folk that want to get away from the consumer culture. It took YMOYL to show me that any debt is not so great, that without debt, I would have so many more choices about my life!

Wakeupmama: Sounds like you might qualify for a forebearance or deferment on your student loan payments because of financial hardship and having young children. That would free up lots of money to manage this time of your DH being out of work. Call you lender and they can tell you more. They will also have a variety of payment plans available - graduated repayment, income contingent repayment...

kerc: There's a name for your plan of loan repayment. It's called "snowballing" when you pay off one loan, and then use that money to double up on payments for another loan. Good to start with smallest loans first to wipe them out and/or highest interest rate loans first.

A few years ago, DH started acting sorta weird and I couldn't figure it out. Turned out his business was about $7K is debt and he didn't know what to do, so he stayed silent. I freaked when he told me, but switched into high gear. He is self-employed and was having a hard time doing everything himself, so I took over the books. Took us about a year to pay it off. Then we put away money for any emergency fund, started an IRA for him, quit buying stupid things, and now am paying all extra $$$ toward the mortgage.

My IRL job is actually to counsel students on managing their student loans, so I figured that I had to get my financial life in order, so as not to be a total hypocrite!

newmainer

05-17-2004, 08:41 PM

Could you explain the Simple Living Discussions? is that a website/ discussion board, or a book, or...? I have heard of YMOYL and think I need to read it now that so many have mentioned it.

While I definitley want to be debt free, dh and I also want to make more money-ideally positive cash flow. Not so we can buy more stuff, but so that we can have more time for ourselves and our family, not be tied down to jobs, and be able to do meaningful things with the money- gift to non-profits, individuals who we think are doing important, meaningful work, and also so we can put in volunteer time ourselves. We know some folks who by managing and investing their money well have been able to turn thier "work" into incredible causes and are making major differences in the world (besides raising responsible, loving kids!). Is this on anyone else's screen too?

I know the focus of this is debt free, and I dont' want to change or take away from that, but I just wanted to share a piece of our bigger goal and see if it resonates with others.

CerridwenLorelei

05-17-2004, 11:25 PM

for Piglet
it would cost about$25.00 to start with but in the long run they pay for themselves-the renewable/rechargable batteries
Most come with four and that way dh can have his milk frother and you can still have the remote
and no buying more when they are dead just recharge 'em

Peppermint

05-18-2004, 07:46 AM

Newmainer-

What you talk about sounds like an impossible dream to me right now, but certainly fascinating!

I have been doing well lately with controlling my spending, dh has too. I think it is going to be a long hard road, but we are definitely in it to win it :LOL.

I keep thinking that if we didn't have the debt that we do, we could be living this frugally to save the money to adopt a child :( That really puts in perspective why we HAVE to do this, and as fast as we can.

I am going to go to the library sometime this week to get that YMOYL book everyone is talking about :thumb.

Celtain

05-18-2004, 08:16 AM

I found the simple living website http://www.simpleliving.com/Index.asp

bamboogrrrl

05-18-2004, 10:06 AM

Actually, embens, that was not the website I was referring to. Check out:
http://www.simpleliving.net/forums/default.asp

It's completely based on "Your Money or Your Life" principles.

New Mainer: Your vision is the whole basis for YMOYL. Run out and read it - you'll love it!

singermom

05-18-2004, 11:25 AM

I'm joining this rather late, but I'm still basking in our recent success, so had to share...

Last night we zero'ed out two CCs, and paid off our heating oil bill for the year! Yeah, us! We also paid a significant chunk off another CC. I will cut up the one CC that was mine.

We still carry quite a bit of debt, but I at least feel like we are finally making progress. DH is in business for himself, and often it is feast or famine for us each month, so we never know how much we are going to be able to pay at any one time. But things have been a little better this year, and so I told DH that I wanted to make paying down our debt a priority. In his heart, he does, too, but he can be a bit bad on the gratuitous purchases every now and again. Part of the learning for me in my marriage has been me not making him feel guilty every time he brings home a new CD or a book. And part for him has been learning to buy things on sale, or to delay a purchase until time that we actually have the money.

Good luck to all who are on this worthy endeavor!

Mia

newmainer

05-18-2004, 01:39 PM

Hey Mia- my husband is self employed too, a web programmer. I completely understand the feast or famine thign. Its infuriating. i'd love to put us on a "paycheck" type of schedule, but it just doesn't work that way. and unfortunately, i go a bit soft when I see higher numbers in the account and then I freak out when there is less. its hard to commit a huge chunk to a cc, because what if its another 2 months before the next check- how would we pay our mortgage? So, if anyone has any tips on budgeting for this type of income, i would definitely appreciate it. we keep track of everything for tax deduction purposes, but only this year have we been really good about pulling taxes out. that's another source of financial pain.

i am going to check out those simple living websites mentioned, and try and find YMOYL- at the library! i'm such a sucker for buying books. although, if i can find it used, it sounds like a worthy copy to own!

newmainer

05-18-2004, 02:03 PM

wow- that simple living network is *awesome* sooooo what i have been looking for! Now if i can get dh to take some time and go through it with me. he is so busy. i only was able to go through the initial stuff, but if anyone else involved i thought of 2 things-

a book lending/exchange- there are a lot of great resources on there, but who has the money to buy them all (or even all the ones you want to read). speaking of simplicity! anyone interested in an exchange?

online study group beyond this thread- it might be kind of neat to have an MDC group. I know you can hook up with a group on the site, but I would rather have a groups with people (great AP mamas!) that I "know"

feel free to pm me if anyone thinks this is beyond the scope of this thread. thanks-

Piglet68

05-18-2004, 02:53 PM

newmainer...yes, we are definitely on the investment plan..

okay...i don't usually give out so much personal information, but I'm just feeling the love and support in this thread. :grouphug

when I married DH he was an engineer earning six figures and life was good. we paid off our credit cards, ate out at nice restaurants alot, blew tons of money on clothes, etc. We rented a 3 bedroom house in boston (you'd faint if you knew the rent). Heck, before we got married I was living in Cleveland and we'd fly to see each other 2 or 3 times a month!

Anyways, DH hated hated hated his job. He is a very smart guy mathematically and decided to get into investing. He joined a few online clubs, did lots of research and testing, and basically came up with his own trading algorithm. It monitors a few indexes and dictates the day's trades based on those numbers. He trades mostly in futures, a very volatile and high-risk market, but the returns can be phenomenal. He convinced me to let him quit his job and try this full time. So, for the last 18 months he has been investing (he does it online, so he can SAH with our DD). He has been managing an account for my mother that she handed to him when her mother died (my mum is doing very well so this was really extra money to her). He has done pretty well on it (made her almost 20% last year) and his plan when we return to Vancouver (and I stop working in preparation for a year of SAHM) is to start his own business as an investor and hunt around for clients, based on the portfolio he has built up with my mum. He hasn't charged her yet, but he will do start doing so then.

The pathetic part of all this is: we made some very poor money decisions after DH quit his job and we moved back to our home town. We kept meaning to put money into the investment program he started, and we never did!! We had a large savings account but we overspent. It's very hard to go from a high standard of living to a strict budget, plus I'd always lived month to month and didn't know how to handle having such a large balance in our account that wasn't being replenished. I spent more than I shoudl have because the balance didn't seem to go down, kwim? Until one day we woke up and realized we were rapidly running out of money. I had already decided to go back to work, but we had about 3 months before my first paycheck and we put it all on our CC's. We are now in debt with CC, student loans, and car payments.

What really knocked us over was when I started working and we realized just how much debt we were paying. I make a very nice salary, especially considering the cheap cost of living here. But almost half my paycheck goes to debt and monthly bills (life insurance, car insurance, utilities and rent). THAT is frightening. :eek We end up barely scraping by each month and usually go overdrawn. I applied for overdraft protection last week (to avoid the $30 o/d charges) but I'm frightened to find out if my credit is still good. This is really heartbreaking for me: when I was 19 I got into major debt due to some lousy roommates and it took me 7 years to clear my name.

The one thing we did right was to buy some property (it was a minimal downpayment on a prepurchase condo). We were hoping to live there, but that's not in the cards now. We found a buyer through some friends so in a few months we will be selling it and making a very nice profit. Enough to pay off our CCs and car and still have something left over to put into the investment account, and to see us through the move back home and DH's new business startup. We won't quite have enough to pay off my student loans, but the interest on that is so low, and they allow you to defer payments when you are earning only a little bit, so when DH starts his business we'll qualify for deferrment.

I do get depressed sometimes, but it's helping alot that this it temporary. Also, alot of it is self-imposed. If DH wanted to go back into engineering, and if I also WOH, we would be bringing in well over $100k. But right now it is too important to us that our DD be home with one of us, and that this new baby be home with me for the first year. Also, I want DH to be happy, and I know he was miserable as an engineer. In a few years when the children are doing their own thing we can both work and live very well. Or heck, maybe by then our investments will make it so we don't have to work....wouldn't that be nice? :)

edited to add: I will say this, there is one positive from this whole experience. I will NEVER, EVER get into debt again. We will cut up all CC but one and ask them to lower our limit. We will NEVER finance a car again (mine should last several more years, in the meantime we'll save up for the next one to pay cash). We will put money aside each month into emergency savings, and we will be careful to budget. So I think in the end this experience will be really good for me. We both needed a wakeup call, and this was IT!

bamboogrrrl

05-19-2004, 10:05 AM

Piglet - Thanks for putting your story out there! And it sounds like you have a way out of debt in the near future, which is great - the tricky part is to stay out of debt, but you sound totally focused on that as a goal. Cool!

Singermom - Woo hoo for you! It feels so great to get rid of debt.

I am always struck by how taboo it is to talk about money, and that's one of the reasons I am so grateful for threads like this one. People talk about what kind of underwear they prefer and who they are sleeping with, but money? Everybody clams up. And if no one will talk about it, how can we learn how to manage it well? I really liked the book "The Millionaire Next Door" because it looked at people's personal habits and how they built up their wealth. You could earn a gazillion dollars, but if you are spending a gazillion and a half...you are still poor. You could earn $10/hour and if you live on 90% of that, you are saving and moving toward wealth.

It feels like a national disease to live beyond our means. Even our gov't can't get it together financially, and I find that really scary. I see college students every day graduating with loans that will make their lives sooooo hard. With all the money we've spent in Iraq, imagine the education we could have funded...

To everyone else with a self-employed dh - how do you manage? I have not been able to figure out yet how to handle the "feast or famine." Budgeting is NOT my strong point, but I handle the fluctuations well enough to avoid debt so I'm not doing too badly.

Peppermint

05-19-2004, 10:27 AM

I am so glad others are finding help in this thread, and if need be, I think we could also start a simple living group together, but keep this thread going here too, to help out other fantastic MDC mamas.

It is so true that money talk is taboo and that is definitely a HUGE part of the problem IMO. My dh frequently points out that many of the people around us who seem to have so much more, are likely even more in debt than we are.

I feel good that we are doing something about it, but boy is it slow...sigh.

ekblad9

05-19-2004, 10:35 AM

I always feel so deep in debt and am often surprised to find others are in the same or worse shoes. I really hope I can avoid this for my kids. My parents were always in debt and we always had nice things, nice vacations, etc. I try to emphasize the importance of saving money and such to my kids. We haven't gone on a vacation since we only had three kids and we paid cash for it. That was years ago. The kids ask about vacations now and we are honest. We simply can't afford it and don't want to charge it. Sad but true! Thanks for this thread! :)

georgia

05-19-2004, 04:16 PM

Piglet, that's so interesting that you categorized this as a wake-up call for you. We recently had a severe financial set-back (uh, bouncing 12 bank transactions---and we'd never bounced a check before in 14 yrs. together!) My dh decided that this was the wake-up call he'd been needing. I, OTOH, fell apart. It was what I've been dreading.....I often think about what Janet Luhrs says in the Simple Living Guide about how your psychic energy is being spent. Well, my energy has been spent on the dread of knowing we cannot afford the lifestyle which we'd been living (however frugally!). I'm the kind of person who agonized over getting the lowest price on my cloth diapers (as if $2.50 matters when you're blowing $500 a month on a car you don't drive :eyesroll). So, I think when I read about it being a wake-up call to action, today, I feel a little energized and allow myself to believe that there might be hope.

Have y'all started a thread in Finding Your Tribe???? I thought I saw something???

Piglet68

05-19-2004, 06:02 PM

georgia, i was pretty freaked out for a while. this goes to what bamboogrrrl said: frankly, I was humiliated and ashamed and embarassed. after all, DH and I were college educated, made good salaries, and we still ended up here? I felt like I must be the stupidest person on the planet. It's not rocket science: you spend more than you earn and you end up in debt!

but once I got past that (not over it, mind you, but moving past it...) I tried to look on the bright side. we, unlike many many in our shoes, HAVE an out and it's coming soon. we aren't looking at YEARS of living like this. I have been a poor student for years, always living paycheque to paycheque, bouncing things on occasion, but I have never missed payments, and I have never had to budget as tight as I am right now. I always knew some day I would make enough to live very comfortably. When I married I figured this was it and it would be blue skies from then on. Just goes to show you!

I'm blessed b/c I have a wonderful DH, a beautiful DD, a little boy on the way, a loving family, and nobody is sick! And our future DOES look bright if we can get it together.

I don't think I'll ever forget how hard it was to live this tight (and yet sometimes it really isnt' all that hard, if that makes sense!). I want to hold on to that feeling so that I never end up this way again.

vancouverlori

05-19-2004, 07:39 PM

Have any of you checked out Flylady? (http://www.flylady.net) She mainly deals with keeping your household running smoothly, but she also has some great tips on saving money and controlling debt. I've found her site and "program" very helpful in so many ways...

Another thing I've come across is the Dollar Stretcher (http://www.stretcher.com) and I actually found that through Flylady. I'm signed up for the Dollar Stretcher newletter, which contains tips from readers and a list of the current topics on the site. Of course some of the tips are just stupid: one reader suggested saving money on partly-skimmed milk by buying whole milk and cutting it with water. :scratch I suppose if you're really desperate...

I've heard that Suze Orman has really sound financial advice, and you can probably find her books in the library or secondhand.

One of the "sponsors" of a recent Dollar Stretcher newsletter was Debt Into Wealth (http://www.debtintowealth.com/affiliate/aff_ar11.html) It's an expensive program - $79, but I wonder if it would be helpful? One of it's big claims is that it is best to pay down all debt (even mortgages) as soon as possible. According to them, even Suze Orman is now recommending paying down even mortgage debt before saving money. Why? Because that money you would be saving would be earning much lower interest than you would be saving by putting it towards debts (does that make sense? it's fully detailed in the link) Anyway, it's a good theory. Of course if you're not paying interest on a debt, then that's different. ;)

Another money saving tip for those of you with very young babies or expecting, Elimination Communication. It has allowed me to use really really crappy second hand diapers (it only needs to hold 1 pee), and DS will probably be out of diapers before he's 2 years old (though that's not the point, it's just a bonus). See the DiaperFreeBaby link in my sig for info and more links. Initially you wash way more diapers per day, but we're down to 3 or 4 wet/dirty diapers a day this week (we're having a sudden leap in potty communication ability).

We've been very lucky debt-wise, DH stayed for 6 months at a job he hated hated hated to get stock options, which paid off half of my $50K student loans (and a student loan remission program paid the rest) as well as paid for our van just before we got married. Otherwise I'd be paying off that loan for years to come. But now we have a HUGE mortgage (gotta love Vancouver) and a line of credit, and I have to go back to work f/t because of it (as I knew I would). :bawl And that's just to make the basic payments! Now if only I could get DH to quit buying so many books and CD's and computer crap (singermom, are we married to the same man?). I suppose he wishes I would quit my singing group...
-Lori

newmainer

05-19-2004, 07:51 PM

I'll echo the thanks, Piglet, for telling your story. It happens to so many, in many different ways. I kick myself for our debt because i watched it happen to my mom and sister with cc's and thought- I'll never do that! ha!! but, to my credit (for my own peace of mind!) most of my personal cc debt was in college. my parents didn't pay for any of it. i worked several part time jobs while going to school full time to cover my living expenses. I shared rooms so my rent was low, didnt' own a car until my senior year (which my dad bought, but i had to pay everything else), etc... but, i went to school 3000 miles from my family, so my once a year plane ticket went on the card, food when i didn't have money in the bank, etc... i think i got a little heady when dh and i got together. when you're in love- money is so "whatever!"

anyhoo... i picked up the YMOYL book. I looked at the Simple Living website. I am eager to dive into it all- you know, in my spare "minutes" during the day when I actually have a chance to read (hmmm, surf MDC or read? or NAP?). The thing that gets me is that... I *like* spending money. not on crap, and not at big box stores if i can get away with it. But i *love* little boutiques and local stores. i love nice art and kitchenware and high thread count sheets (TJMAXX- 400 tc, 30 bucks!!) and other linens, etc... I like to think of myself as being more conscious because i dont' go and buy a bunch of junk at walmart or target (not to bash anyone who shops there- i certainly have) but, truthfully, its just that i'm a snob about where i shop and spend money- not that i dont spend it!

So. I am all for diving into the simple living and in my heart, I know it is the right thing to do. and, i know that its finding what's "enough" for you- not buying or having nothing. and right now, with our debt, i can't be shopping. it just can't happen for non-necessities.

I started thinking about what it would mean for me to give up the kind of shopping i would like to do and think i would do someday if we had the money. i often do this when i need a paradigm shift- i think, what would it mean/change for me if i did this? and for me, the shopping thing is about being ok with what i need and filling my time with other things, thoughts, and priorities. this sounds like i'm a shopaholic, and i'm really not. i'm more of a material dreamer- does this make *any* sense? its so easy to get lost in the world of "if i only had..." but, rather than browsing downtown with dd on a warm spring day- we go for a hike. rather than leafing through cataloges on the toilet :), reading something more thought provoking. owning fewer items of clothing, but ones that i really like and wearing them threadbare (which i actually do for the things I really like).

i guess in my ideal world, we would:

- be out of debt (perhaps not including mortgage)
- have at least 50% of our income be passive/investment
- spend the majority of our time with each other and doing meaningful, creative work
- be in a position to purchase things of quality that we truly like/need (like decent furnature and clothing, outdoor gear, travel)
- evaluate our living standards regularly so that we *are* living in some semblance of voluntary simplicity, but without feeling like we are shafting ourselves.

is this attainable? or am i dreaming?

newmainer

05-19-2004, 07:58 PM

vancouverlori- we cross posted but i wanted to comment on something you posted

i have read too about using all of the money you have- including retirement 401k and stuff to pay off all debt because it is a better interest/return than the savings. dh refuses to cash in his 401k for cc debt. and, i have to agree, if we don't touch it, it grows. we *have* to pay cc every month becuase we get a bill, but we don't have to put money in retirement. especially since my dh is self employed, we don't have an automatic investment account like that anymore. so, my concern would be that we would pay that down, then never end up saving again. by losing that money, you lose the compound interest factor. for some people this might be a good choice. the mortgage thing to me sounds a bit much. i mean, if you have a 200,000 mortgage, you'd have to be paying it down for 20 years or more. i guess you could borrow against it if you need to, but i think taking advantage of compound interest for retirement makes more sense. for reguarl savings, i don't know. but then i worry about emergencies, and you're back on teh cc if you dont have savings, kwim?

EFmom

05-19-2004, 08:15 PM

We have been fortunate in that both of us are extremely debt-aversive, so other than our mortgage and one modest car payment, we are not in debt. We are working on paying off the mortgage early. I hope I'm not poking my nose in where it isn't wanted.

Twice over the past six years, we have had to come up with a substantial amount of money in a fairly short time in order to adopt our kids, and we are currently doing it again because we need to readopt in the US. I thought some of the things that work for us might help somebody who is trying to get out of debt.

Many people do take out loans to adopt, but we weren't comfortable with that and decided rather to save the money. We went into "austerity mode." ITA with a lot of what Piglet said. The mindset is really important. Saving the money is easier if you keep your eye on the goal. I asked myself all the time, "What do I want more, new shoes or to get my child home?" and that made it much easier to put the shoes back.

First, I got the Tightwad Gazette out of my library. It is a three volume set of good ideas and philosophy for saving money. Some of the ideas were a little extreme for me, but others were very good and I found my own as well, once I started thinking about hanging on to every extra penny we earn. For us, the major steps were as follows:

1. Understand where we were spending all of our money by tracking it for a while
2. We took a long, hard look at everything that is a monthly expense, and tried to figure out how to eliminate or reduce it.
3. We got rid of cable TV, cell phones, and all extra phone services. Some people drop their long distance provider and just use pre-paid phone cards.
4. We stopped eating out altogether, including lunches, vending machines, coffees (Fourbucks), even take-out pizzas. We didn't go out to dinner all that much or to particularly nice places, but it's amazing how much it all added up.
5. We looked at our auto insurance and dropped the collision and increased the deductibles on our cars.
6. We keep cars forever and basically drive them into the ground. Dh's car had over 205,000 miles on it before we finally replaced it.
7. I started cooking from scratch and using my freezer. Having a freezer is a big money saver for us as I work out of the home, and without it, I we would be getting take out half the time. Now, I freeze big batches of stuff on the weekends in meal sized portions. I can also buy meat when it is marked down or on sale.
8. I started keeping a price book, with information about the costs of commonly purchased grocery items at the stores I shop in. This way, I know if a sale is really a good buy or not. TG has more info on that. Some things can be bought much cheaper in places other than the grocery store. For example, we have a good bread outlet in town where I can get 100% whole wheat sometimes for about seventy five cents a loaf. The Asian market is much cheaper for some produce, for noodles, some spices. We have a deli outlet that has great buys on certain items. You need to be a bit organized to save money this way so that you incorporate the shopping when you happen to be driving by, so you aren't wasting a lot of gas.
9. Along with cancelling the cable, we stopped spending any money at all on entertainment. We don't buy books or videos. We use the public library a huge amount. They can get just about anything you want to read through interlibrary loan, and in most libraries, it's free. We don't even rent videos--we just check them out of the library. We check our town papers for free concerts, lectures, exhibits, etc. and we spend lots of time in the parks. We never set foot in bars.
10. We do not use air conditioning.

None of these things makes me feel deprived in the least. I kind of enjoy finding cheaper ways to do things. Everyone has their own tolerance for cutting corners. For me, it's a challenge to see what we can live without when we really dig in and put our minds to it.

ekblad9

05-19-2004, 08:51 PM

I'm going to pose this question. Have you ever felt like you have to be well off to truly "live" an organic lifestyle? I mean, I'm all for the healthier foods/cleaning supplies, shampoos, etc but it's so expensive! Thank goodness we belong to a co op right now but still it's more than the no name stuff would be.

And what about activities for the kids? We have five children. Even if they are all only in one activity that adds up. Then there's art class, violin lessons, guitar lessons, etc. We homeschool and I really feel that this stuff is necessary.

I cook alot. We rarely, if ever, eat out. I feel like I do a lot of things to save money but still we're in debt and living paycheck to paycheck. I really hate that! :(

lilyka

05-19-2004, 11:14 PM

I'm in debt, I'm in debt! :wave

We have credit card debt, and we are in a debt management program to pay it off. Unfortunatley, my credit is screwed up from trying to pay my bills off through this program. I've since found out that if I would have filed bankruptcy and not payed for anything, my credit would be getting back on track right about now... Crappy, huh? I can't wait till it's all paid off and behind us. :)

yes but you have better carma paying the stuff off. it is stuff you bought or services you used and regardless of how tererible over priced it was it was your responsibilty to pay them off. I am proud that you took the high road. You'll be rewarded in heaven for this ;)

lilyka

05-19-2004, 11:35 PM

we are in debt up to our eyeballs, I am would be happy if I could just stop digging deeper and hold steady for a while. we started out parenting with a $30000 debt that landed in our laps all of sudden., DD was in the NICU, we just moved, we were unisured and her being 6 weeks early sent us in completely unprepared (I was supposed to have a shower the day after she was born and were going to shop after that. also MIL told me not to shop at rummage sales because i would get most of that stuff at showers. ALl I got at showers was newborn sized pink lacy stuff. so anyway, between the hospital bill, loosing my job 2 months early, moving expenses, having to just go out an buy everything new, at once and all the added expenses of living life on the run to and from the hospital we racked up least $30K in 7 days. with 1% compounding intrest every month. ($250 am onth just on the hospital bill that I was feeling pretty good about applying $25 a month towards ) And just when we were beginning to see daylight we bought a house, a business (which could be doing better), and a secoind car after making it 10 years and 3 kids as a one car family. So right back into the thickl of it and now the business has really taken a plunge (we ran out of reserves) and we went 3 months without getting paid. in the meantime everything looks dandy on paper (100K a year, unfortunately 70 of that goes toward businees loans that we had to take out in our name) but my point was don't qualify for Medicaid or wic or anything helpful. gees while we were on WIC and medicaid we went a long way towards clearing our debt.

Anywhoo, now we have activities and such. Organic etc. . are not even an option for us. way to expensive. And anyone who says it isn't make mway more money than we do. there is nothing left to cut and I have started selling stuff on e-bay to pay for the extras. like shoes. I was so trilled that I made enough money to cover TKD tuition and shoes for my oldest. cheap shoes. My youngest was supposed to satrt this month but there is just no money for it. I have to go back to work. fortunately I will be able to work at our business. hopefully by fall I will be able to find a cheap sitter so I can continue while still making somehting. but really if i pay even half of what I make an hour (roughly $7 - that is me. $3.50 for the sitter for watching 3 kids. only someone who loves me would do that) why bother going in. Maybe there is someone who could trade with me.

activities for ekblad - join a homeshcool group or start your own and work it for discounts. My friend is especially good at it. she got us 2 months of dance classes for $30. that was a $100 value. she then worked it so we could get 30% off TKD tuition. we also find all sorts of free stuff including once a year big co-op classes and smaller group co-op classes. it is a royal PITA t oorganize and teach this stuff and would be easier to pay someone the reg. fee but none of uis can afford that. Our group has also convinced people to give a members only discount at several (about 10) stores. helpful. I am stressing about how I will do it with three I can't even imagine five. But I wouldn't feelguilty about limiting it to one regular costly activity like dance or music lessons.

lilyka

05-19-2004, 11:51 PM

I should really have come to this thread earlier - if you can get your money out of your retirement early without huge penelties I owuld do it. DH used to work for a company that helped people reduce debt in order to save for retirement and the first thing they had people do was pay off credit card debt even if it meant not investing. Once you have your debt paid off you can start auto investing. It will build faster. of course if you have 10 or less years till retirement then hoard everything you can. The theory is that your cc intrest will build faster and larger than you retirement intrest so you still lose money in the end.

some other big things you can do to save money. refinance everything to a non revolving intrest loan so that you are not paying intrest on intrest.

be sure you have term life insurance instead of whole life. (and be sure you have life insurance. it is not optional). Some people think it is a saftey net because they are squirrling away money but it is worng that you have to borrow your own money and pay someone intrest for the priveledge. use a savings account if you feel the need to squirrel money. it isn't worth it. term will take care of you and your family suffieciently at a fraction of the cost.

makeone extra mortage payment a year (this is especially easy if you get paid every two weeks because you can switch your payment to bi weekly and spilt the cost of your payment in half and you will never feel that extra payment) this will cut the life of your mortage by half. HALF!! 15 years if you are just starting out. you save just a crap load on intrest and build equity really fast.

have only as much taxes deducted as you will need ot cover your tax bill. don't have extra taken just in case. you can use a savings account for this and gain intrest until it is time to pay any extra you owe. it isn't thier money until april. keep it in the bank building intrest until then. also for the love of pete don't have extra taken out so you can get a big return. why should you let the government earn intrest on your money? and yes this is why they do this. that tax return is not a gift from the government. it is not a treat,. it is refund of what you over paid. Your boss can deposit in your savings account directly. you never have to see it or be tempted to touch it. unitl January if you so desire. and in the mean time it will be gaining intrest!! for you!!

Ok there is my speil for the night.

ekblad9

05-20-2004, 07:08 AM

:thumb Wow! Thanks Lilyka!

bamboogrrrl

05-20-2004, 09:58 AM

I love this thread!

A couple of things: If you have a 30 year mortgage and make one extra payment per year, it will reduce the life of the loan to about 22 years, not in half. And it's probably always a bad idea to cash out retirement funds to pay off debt because you get hit with high taxes and penalties.

That said, EFMom has some great ideas to reign in the spending. I just found a volume of the Tightwad Gazette at a yardsale for a quarter, and it really had great suggestions. My sister's bridal shower is this weekend, and she's a complete spend-a-holic, so one of my gifts to her is four books to help her and her fiance with their finances ("The Tightwad Gazette," YMOYL, a Suze Orman book, and the Wall Street Journal Book of Personal Finances). I got all the books used to underscore the priniciples of simple living. Most of these book can be found cheaply by buying them used on amazon.com

NewMainer had some good points about the stereotypes of simple living folks. Simple living doesn't mean buying poor quality items that will end up quickly in the landfill. Part of it is living lightly on the earth. I have Garnet Hill sheets on my bed, but I got them on sale, they wear like iron, and I've had them for 8 years. My heavy down comforter was expensive from the Company Store, but it's also 13 years old. My clothes are CP Shades and Flax and Eileen Fisher, mostly gotten on sale or used on ebay. My shoes are Danskos and Clarks but I haven't needed to buy a pair in two years. I have shoes and clothing that are more than 10 years old and still look great. Good quality goes a long way and saves money in the long run.

My secret life is one of a writer and artist, and simple living gives me much more time to pursue these interests. It's getting to the point where I loathe going shopping! I'd much rather hike or write or garden. Last weekend, we spent a day building a pergola in our yard - chopped down standing dead locust trees to use, dug deep holes, scrounged the screws to fasten it together. And it turned out prettier than anything we could have bought. Simple living is good for my creativity in so many ways.

My financial goals are:

*Pay off our mortgage as quickly as possible (we refi-ed our 30 year into a 15 year mortgage and I'm making extra payments). When I told DH I would work to pay it off early, he laughed at me! Ye of little faith...
*Pay into DH's Roth IRA every year as early in the year as possible.
*Add more to our emergency cushion (currently at about six months of expense).
*Keep putting money to be matched by my employer into my 403(b).
*Keep tracking expenses using Microsoft Money.
*Stay out of anymore debt - which might get temporarily blown in the next year by building a barn for dh's business, but at least it adds equity.

What are your goals, and how do we reach them? Can we support each other to reach them together?

ekblad9

05-20-2004, 10:09 AM

You guys have really inspired me! Thanks! :grouphug

My goals are:

To pay off the CC debt ($9,000) ASAP

To pay off dh's car

To have money in savings

To live more simply and avoid buying things that we don't really need. (this is a big one. I'm a bit of a comfort shopper) :(

I would love to pay one extra mortgage payment/year. I always say I'm going to but then never do. That's a goal I could probably attain somewhat easily by putting money away each month.

Thanks again everyone! :)

Peppermint

05-20-2004, 10:21 AM

OK- :shy :blush :hide: :eek

Goal #1- pay off......$22,000 in credit card debt :blush :crying:
Other goals which I will bother to put in order after #1 is done:
save for kids college
pay off cars
save for retirement
pay down mortgage
tithe (although I should probably be doing that all along)

I am planning a library trip tomorrow to get some inspiring books.

My biggest goal- to realize what we ACTUALLY have/can afford, and stop living as if we had more.

kathsmom

05-20-2004, 11:53 AM

I know I posted before on this thread, but I just wanted to add that I am so glad to see others like me who are trying to get out of debt.

We have a mortgage, car loan, home equity line of credit, and a small credit card bill. The car loan and mortgage are manageable, but the equity line of credit has thrown us for a loop. We had to get our kitchen floors replaced (previous homeowner had done a terrible DIY job of laying Mexican tiles), the driveway started cracking and eventually buckled with huge chunks sticking up (from a tree root) and had to be fixed. We also have a trees that had to be cut down/pruned. All of that was several thousand dollars.

Our new dilemma is that our DD might have a learning disability and might need to attend a special school (she has an above average IQ with a learning disability which affects how she learns). That won't be cheap, and the school is 15 miles from our home. That would be 60 miles each day to take her and pick her up, not to mention about 2 hours total time out of the day just for transportation. So, we are thinking of moving to be closer to the school. I am also trying to start an online business to bring in some extra money and I might have to go to work on nights/weekends to help pay for the tuition.

AACCKK!! We are just very confused right now. We hate debt and for a couple of years, all we owed was the mortgage and car payment, but due to DH being out of a job for almost 2 months last year, we fell behind a little and are still trying to catch up!

Thanks to you all for sharing your stories.

kerc

05-20-2004, 01:34 PM

ackkk. i'm having a week where I want to spend lots of $$ we don't have (to give you some perspective I'm talking 100 bucks at the mall, not $$$$$$$). i'm hoping that by posting here I will refrain from spending and actually save.

it does help me to think about transferring some $$ to my cc -- meaning I would go in and pay electronically 5 bucks or something to my cc instead of blowing it at the mall. off to do that now!

ekblad9

05-20-2004, 01:37 PM

it does help me to think about transferring some $$ to my cc -- meaning I would go in and pay electronically 5 bucks or something to my cc instead of blowing it at the mall. off to do that now!

:thumb That is such a great idea! :)

bamboogrrrl

05-20-2004, 02:41 PM

Kerc - You rock!

One of the most profound parts of YMOYL for me was the idea that every time you go out and purchase something, you are effectively trading life energy for that object (you give life energy as work for money to buy stuff).
So when I buy stuff now, I think about "do I really want to trade my incredibly valuable life energy for this thing?" Most of the time, the answer is "no." And then it becomes easy to justify paying myself first - through debt reduction or by saving.

ekblad9

05-20-2004, 02:57 PM

I just did it (payed a little on the CC) and it feels great! Thanks for the idea! :)

bamboogrrrl

05-20-2004, 03:10 PM

Woo hoo Ekblad! Paying down debt CAN feel better than shopping!

newmainer

05-20-2004, 07:10 PM

kerc- that is *such* an awesome idea. i'm going to make that a habit!!

Today we got a reimbursement check from the bank for some of our home improvement stuff, so at least 13,000 of that card will go away. seems easier for me to handle paying a mortgage than another cc.

Ok, so, goals. I know I listed my ideas before, but now the goals:

short term:
1. truly track what we are spending and get on a *workable* budget. i've made them a million times before but don't stick to them or track them.
2. dh and i meet weekly to review our finances, track our goals, etc...
3. find at least -3- ways to reduce our monthly expenses- apply toward cc bills.
4. continue paying extra on mortgage every month (we can't do the bi-weekly thing because of how our loan is structured)
5. start dd's college account before she turns 1 (less than 1 month. I figure $25 a month is doable and if we dont' do it now, we won't get the compound interest and we'll screw her future too).
6. start an IRA or equivalent for dh to squirrel money into- even if only $25 a month.

My goals are structured a bit different than what many have written. For me, it just doesn't work to have a goal of paying off our cc for good. thats' a no brainer. I need concrete things I can check off a list!! Like, ok, did I meet my reduced spending this week? yes! great! etc...

oh, and regarding the organic thing. yes, buying organic is definitely a privilege and its expensive. I know that we could save a lot of money by not doing so. but, I can't. i harbor absolutely *no* judgemental feelings toward others who don't. Like for me, I am not going to homeschool (though I undestand why others do and support it). But buying organic and local for me is really important in so so many ways. We give up other things- like we don't have a tv, so no cable. dh's cell is for work only. we have one car. we bought a smaller/cheaper house than we probably could have (ok, so we racked up a bunch of debt fixing it, but ykwim) etc... and ultimately, we can afford it, so i do- knowing full well that its a priviledge and i feel very grateful i can make that choice.

thanks mamas- this is a great thread!!

Peppermint

05-20-2004, 07:19 PM

Very good point about small things you can check off a list to "feel" like you are really doing something- and that paying $5 here and there would be a great little motivator! :)

Maybe we could all check in once a week (although I feel a need to be here daily) to discuss the little progresses we make (like paying $5 off of our debt instead of buying another citronella candle at Walmart :)).

And yes to newmainer- we all (I suspect) have something that we feel we need to splurge on- for you it's organic foods- for me it is security- which means we have a cell phone for emergency use and we have a security system. I could cancel both of those things, but then I would not feel safe, and that would not be worth it to me, KWIM? There have to be some things that are more imporatant than getting out of debt, we just have to make sure those things are few and far between and VERY important to us :thumb.

kerc

05-20-2004, 09:24 PM

whew. only purchases after i left here: bag of charcoal (already on the "buy" list, 3 ears of corn on the cob for dinner, and 1/2 gallon of ice cream.

i'm having a hard time with the whole life energy part of YMOYL. For a handful of reasons, but it is just not clicking with me. I am doing well at thinking twice or trice about what i am spending money on though.

organic --> i aspire to be there someday. Honestly it is just not now. We just don't have the cash, it isn't worth it to move to a smaller house and well, dd was not planned. So we've been scraping by since she was born.

lilyka

05-20-2004, 09:48 PM

I guess none of our retirement (or at least that I know about) is in a retirement specific account so it would be benificial to cash it in if we were sirtting on cc debt. Ours is entirely in mutual funds that we purchased with out change jar and is building quite nicely.

One of the reasons we are in debt is because we bought thebusiness. which was a good thing. debt worth getting into you know. But being young and without a lot of money we have a crazy 5 year payoff on the place. (think a very large mortage with a 7 year payoff and what your payments would be) plus rent and employess who all needed raises. It is sinking us. if we can hold on for five omre years we will be able to to pay off all of our debt, including out home, every penny of it, in a few months to a year. It is really insane to think about. but that is if we don't go into debt anymore and can keep the business a float (it is a viscious cycle, we are out of credit so we can't buy the stock we need so we can't sell it and make money to pay off what needs to be paid to keep the business afloat. the previous owner made things out to be a little more rosey than they actually were) and tread water for another 5 years we will be home free. but that is hard when months go by without a paycheck and things come up and our paychecks aren't quite stretching . . .

but I do want to get out of debt.

robin4kids

05-21-2004, 01:13 PM

I am new to this thread, but so glad i found it. My DH and i were doing so well for a while. We paid off everything, (We were living with my parents. though!). Then we bought a house and my husband took a pay cut and had to go back to school in order for him to keep his job as a teacher. We had another child, our new house needed a new driveway, and you know...the list goes on. We have a morgage, CC (A lot of them!), a student loan, and a car payment.

It seems that just as we think we are doing so well, something else happens. Like our stairs in the front of our house are rotten. It is not like we don't try. We are a family of six, living in a very small three bedroom lower flat. We rent out the upper for $600 a month, which means our morgage is only another $200. We could live in the whole house, but we are sacraficing our comfort for the money we need so much. My one year old does not even have a place of his own, he sleeps with us. That is fine for now, but in another year I like to move the kids to their own bed.

We would like to consolodate our ccs, but also don't want to make our selves worse off. Does anyone know if their is a safe way to do this. Right now we are paying so much in interest, and late fees. If we could just have one big payment I would be so much happier and I think in the long run we would be saving money.

Another question...Someone mentioned starting an at home job, what were you thinking of doing. I am so desperate for money. My DH works two jobs, so the only way I can work, is if I started work after 10pm or i worked from home. I already babysit in the home, but it is not steady pay.

I have to go pick up kids. I feel for you all! It is so nice to have someone to talk to, who knows what it is like and does not judge.

Depressed Mom of four beautiful kids

newmainer

05-21-2004, 02:43 PM

I dont have much to add today except that I admire and am impressed by you mamas with more than one child- I can't imagine! We definitely want another in about two years (well, getting pregnant anytime after dd is 2, and she is 11 mo now)- and that motivates me to get our butts on track. The stress of dealing with finances and more than one active child is beyond my comprehension right now.

Virtual hugs and hang in there to all!!

georgia

05-22-2004, 09:04 AM

Well, we've had the big discussion about selling the family car. My dh company pays for his car (just like his cell phone plan). We owe a lot on the car. Getting a new car was idea b/c he wanted the security of knowing we were in something safe, as opposed to my old Honda. I :love my old Honda. Paid for is a beautiful thing.

Anyway, I'm not sure how we'd go about selling the car? Newspaper? Ebay? Dh thought about trading it in, but we'd be upside down if we bought a less expensive used car. This car is draining us. I don't even drive it more than maybe once a week. We live in a golf-cart community where everything we need is reachable by foot or cart. So, we paid waaaay too much for our house so we can save $ on gas :(

We're down to bare bones as far as bills go. What else can I cut??? Our internet contract runs out in Aug (to cancel it, we'd be out more than just keeping it the remaining few months). We don't have cable, heck, we don't even have a working TV right now. High insurance deductibles. We don't eat at restaurants. We do eat mostly organic, though we get it thru a farmers market very inexpensively. Dh takes his lunch. My mother buys my dc clothes.....I've stopped shopping for entertainment--if we don't NEED something, why be tempted? I really like the idea of moving into a smaller place, but financially, this will have to wait at least a year. My cell phone is $9.99 a month, which we think is a good trade-off for peace of mind with almost 3 children. I think a growing a money tree sounds like some agriculture I need to look into!

Anyone ever heard this saying---I really like it:

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without

Kinda runs counter to the simple living isn't deprivation, but it helps me make decisions sometimes :)

Thanks for letting me share waaay TMI :) If anyone has any car selling links or ideas, please let me know!

lilyka

05-22-2004, 11:22 AM

robin4kids - look up Primerica and see if there is one in your area.They do an evaluation of you finances, and let you know where you can save, they can refinance everything safely. you may have a slightly higher intrerst rate but since you will be paying htings off sooner it is OK (trust me) - just make sure they have you paying off everything sooner. Also by refinanceing you can drop things like PMI on your house and if you have full coverage on a car that doesn't need it (I don't know about here but if you have a loan on a car you have to have full coverage even if it is a pile.) These two things alone can add up to big savings even if you have a slightly higher intrest rate. There is no fee for thier services.They also fee l strongly that retirement saving and life insurance are not optional and will find a place for that in the overall plan.

CryPixie83

05-23-2004, 02:38 AM

Count me in!

It's amazing how quickly debt piles up! I have old bills and a credit card that's went to collections, his cc (which is slowly being paid off! yay!), plus my 76 year old Granny who lives with us (we combine our income to balance things out) has three credit cards,plus a couple store cards and about 4 lines of credit with mail order companies... the woman is a debt magnet and she doesn't understand where her money goes every month! :rolleyes

I've just started putting us on a budget and it's already made a huge difference in the way we live! I'm hoping that in the next 5 years we'll be completely debt free.... 2 years would be awesome!

Oh course right now we're adding to our debt... midwives, and we have to get another car (can't really see using a '92 mustang as a family car!), but we're doing our best to keep our expenses down and we're working on increasing our income so things are looking good :) We're staying in my little 3 room (3 ROOMS, not 3 bedrooms!) apartment for at least a year to save money (3 adults and a baby1) so we're definately making "sacrifices"... Now if only i could make DF understand that a new X-box is not essential when he already has a PS2 and a Gamecube and a gameboy and my puter.... lol The joys of loving a geek ;)

kerc

05-23-2004, 08:32 AM

selling a car -- depending on where you live --
1. put a sign in it (heck that's basically free)
2. put an ad in the local classifieds. go to this site to look up the blue book value (http://www.kbb.com) there's the trade in value and the amount you can realistically expect to get for the car. IMO it has always been a little high --i.e. I think they overestimate by 500 bucks or so. But then again maybe I've always been taken.
3. there's usually a classified ads magazine called something like Auto Trader (look or ask at a gas station). You buy it for a buck or two and there are tons of ads in it. To run the ads it cost like 30 bucks. This has been a good source of used car ads for us (to buy that is).

that's where I'd start.

on the mustang -- hmm. if it has a backseat, honestly I'd keep it till after the kiddo is born. That would give you a little time to save up some $$, and to really assess what you want. I bought a honda accord when pregnant. Turns out the car itself is big enough, and the trunk is big enough. But I jog frquelty and the jog stroller doesn't fit in the trunk without a little jiggling around. So...I'd now prefer a stationwagon or, gasp, minivan.

we just yesterday discovered that the public library has a lending library of toys! You can check one out for four weeks. Fun!

and to hold myself accountable -- we thought we were going to buy a sandbox yesterday. I was round and round about whther to buy or build or what. So I decided buy a turtle box. Then we opted instead to wait till it was less stormy (something about tying the sandbox to the roof of the car in the high winds we are having....). So we decided to go to the other library in town. It was a great thing. They have a great kids selection and more importantly -- a great section for kids to play! kitchen, slides, telephone booth, puzzles. It rocks. It is free, of course, and dh and I could take turns selecting our stuff. very fun and, did i mention free?

CryPixie83

05-23-2004, 05:29 PM

on the mustang -- hmm. if it has a backseat, honestly I'd keep it till after the kiddo is born. That would give you a little time to save up some $$, and to really assess what you want. I bought a honda accord when pregnant. Turns out the car itself is big enough, and the trunk is big enough. But I jog frquelty and the jog stroller doesn't fit in the trunk without a little jiggling around. So...I'd now prefer a stationwagon or, gasp, minivan.

Well, the little one is due at the end of next month. We've gotten friend's infant seats in the back, so it's possible, but it just doesn't feel safe to me (convertible) and I know we'll never get a stroller into the trunk. We're looking at a Taurus or an Escort, since I have a bit of experience doing basic maintanance on Fords (changing the oil, headlights, belts and filters and things of that nature). DF wants to keep the 'stang and get a second car, which is ok I guess, except I work from home so I don't need a car while he's gone (we live two small blocks from the hospital so that isn't a concern) and using the mustang as a trade would at least reduce the payments each month. The mustang is in his parent's name and they just finished paying it of, insurance is in their name too... So I'm going to try to get DF to trade the mustang in, instead of adding a second car.

I've gotten a lot of great tips and ideas from this thread! Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom! Tonight is meal planning night, and maybe grocery shopping. I get WIC so milk and eggs are free (getting sick of juice though lol- makes my heartburn worse) which has really helped. I've found that planning meals, even if it's just dinner, a week ahead of time is a real help. It's easier to make your grocery list and harder to justify unneeded items going into the shopping cart!

I'll also be writing the checks to pay bills tonight. I find that since the majority of our income comes at the beginning of the month, if I write the checks out ahead of time I actually get them sent out on time, avoiding late fees! Yay! I still need to call a few credit card companies and takl to them about cutting down on the interest and having a set amount to pay monthly. We're no longer using the cards, but they're all maxed out (Granny used them to move, and maxed out her brand new platinum card- lovely) so right now we're fighting to keep the fees paid so they don't go over and add MORE fees... What a viscious cycle.

I'm going to sit down and figure out where all of our debt is, and keep it somewhere we'll see it everyday, that should help DF curb his spending a bit. I hope. For now I'm off to pick him up from work and see if Target has king-sized sheets on clearance (wishful thinking) since we're getting the new bed for when the baby comes.

newmainer

05-24-2004, 10:50 AM

Ok, here's my check-in and update.

I am delving into the YMOYL book. The more i read ,the more it makes sense. yes, the trading life energy for work is a tough concept at first, but I feel like it makes sense in comparison- for example, once you convert the hours and see that say, groceries are the same life energy as the clothes shopping, or gym membership or whatever, its another way to assess values. does that make sense? we'll see once we actally get all that worked out.

But, here's what I've done:
1. started a tabulation of all money out
2. started a tabulation of things I wanted to buy, but didn't and how much they cost. I got this idea because I want to see how much all those "little" things add up to- a cup of coffee here, a small toy for dd there, etc... yesterday I went to TJ Maxx to get 2 things: a silverware container thing (we just moved so don't have a bunch of that stuff) and a wastebasket for the bathroom. I found the wastebasket and a Williams Sonoma Muffins cookbook for $10. Now, I love muffins. They are my favorite thing to bake. and I love their cookbooks. and it was only $10! So I put it in my cart. Before i went to checkout, I put it back. went home, added the $10 to my tabulation. I felt *so great* that I didn't buy it. I have tons of cookbooks, plus the internet. So, victory for me there.
3. decided to cancel our YMCA membership, as its summer (just about) now and I pretty much just do classes anyway, which is above and beyond membership. That will save $55.00 a month!

So, small steps, but feels like progress. Dh and I are going to have our first weekly meeting this week to evaluate and set a plan together.

anyone else, victories? decisions?

Breathe

05-24-2004, 01:02 PM

No victories here . . . How about a major defeat? :blush

We are overdrawn this month! This has not happened in YEARS and we are both feeling overwhelmed. There's still a week to go in this month PLUS we are hosting out-of-town guests next weekend and I will have to feed them for 3 days (they feed us when we go to their house, so no, asking them to chip in is not an option.) I just feel out of control.

It's funny, cause I haven't been participating much in this thread because quite honestly, I have not felt a strong need to get out of debt. Our debt seems small compared to many, and since our CC is 0% interest, we just haven't had the wake-up call that many of you refer to. This may be it. Can't tell yet. It might just be a wake-up call to spend more within our means, but either way, it seems fitting that I've been reading this thread all along.

So at some point dh and I desperately need some time to sit down and come up with a plan -- like, going to an all-cash system, with the cash divided up into weekly allotments, so once it's gone, it's gone -- but even finding time for that conversation is tough. I will try to track down YMOYL, but I must say that I don't have a lot of interest in reading that in my limited free time.

It's like, spiritually, I'm just not there yet. KWIM? :(

Peppermint

05-24-2004, 01:14 PM

Breathe-

I am sorry hon....

I know what you are talking about with not really being "there" yet. That's where I was for the past few years, I wanted to get out of debt, but it wasn't quite what it is now- hard to explain. I also had "not as much debt" a couple of years ago- but boy did it grow fast- try to get your wake up call now!

I need to pay bills tonight- then I'll check back in to see if I have any progress to report......

Celtain

05-24-2004, 01:58 PM

So how many people feel the YMOYL book is worth the read? And are they generally available at the library? Don't want to spend the money!!! LOL

newmainer

05-24-2004, 07:25 PM

So how many people feel the YMOYL book is worth the read? And are they generally available at the library? Don't want to spend the money!!! LOL

Embens, I broke down and just bought it- which is totally a perfect example of my weakness- when I think i need to do something, i just go out and do it. can't wait. this spills into finances and is part of our trouble. But anyway...
As I started reading it, I felt like I was reading some of the same old stuff I've seen in other 'money management' programs, especially about examining your history and culture about money, the ideals you grew up with etc... and started to feel duped, that it wasn't as unique as I'd been led to believe. But now that i am further into the book, i'm really starting to 'get it.' it seems much more a *life* management book via money, because money tends to be what manages us, if we let it. I can feel the principles beginning to hit me on a deeper level- beyond just my desire to get out of debt. Because really, if I dont go deeper, than getting out of debt for me is about being able to spend money without feeling guilty because I already owe so much. it had nothing to do with actually wanting to change my spending habits and our lifestyle and relationship with money. but now as I delve into this, I am begining to really want to do things differently, from the roots, not just on the surface. And, when I do think about where my money habits and attitudes come from, I recognize that they are rooted in growing up with a single mom who robbed Peter to pay Paul, never quite making ends meet. BUT we always got what we needed- not fancy vacations or cars or anything, but clothes and gifts. I have adopted that attitude, that well, I need it, so I'll get it and the money will come from somewhere. I wish I could say my mom has gotten out of that pattern, but she hasn't- so I am determined to!

So, Breathe, I totally get what you mean about not being there yet. I've been "there" only in lipservice only for so long. Saying I wanted to pay it off, making some progress when we could but not truly committing. Here is a quote by Goethe I will share. My spiritual mentor is constantly using it when teaching. I think its pretty powerful:

"the moment one commits oneself, Providence also moves,
All sorts of things occur to help which could not otherwise have happened,
A whole stream of events flow from the decision bringing all sorts of unforeseen incidents, meetings, and material help which no one could have foreseen,
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it now, boldness has power, magic, and genius in it." Goethe

of course is applies to anything in life, but it sure would be cool to get all that "unforeseen" extra help to pay off my debt! :)

Carrielee

05-24-2004, 09:15 PM

Yes that is NOT fair.
My dh and I had the same experience several years ago.
The issue of bankruptcy really ticks me off!
My thinking always was...nobody got me in that situation (although we came by that debt honest...my dh started a business) and I wasn't about to let someone else pay!

Carrie

vegmom

05-27-2004, 12:46 AM

How can we make our money grow? For those who invest.... What do you invest in? I am personally looking into real estate.

DH is the sole money maker and we are expecting a new baby in mid-august. We have about $2000 in cc debt and a mortgage. We bought a fixer-upper so we pulled out extra money out of the mortgage to fund some renovations. In the summer I am able to have a garden (if it stops raining so I can seed it!). We live in a rural area and there is little to do for entertainment so we don't really do anything. Just mainly work on the house, cook and clean. It does not seem that we have a lot of debt but we live paycheck to paycheck. And most months we are overdrafted on our accounts. We have no furniture. The computer is on the floor and we sleep on a mattress on the floor. We don't have a couch, chairs, or anything like that. I know that this is only temporary but being pregnant and sitting and typing on the floor is painful. I am just sick of it.

How much money do I need in order to invest? What do I invest in? The reason that I am interested in Real Estate is bc we purchased our home in a run down condition but in a real good location. If we fix it up and sell it we can make about $40,000. The problem is with me letting my DH do the work. It seems that he works so many hours and when he is home I would rather spend time with him rather than have him under the sink fixing plumbing.

I am all for cutting corners and saving but I just want to know how to make money. Passive money through investments so I can stay home with my dc's.
Has anybody done this? Or is this wishful thinking?

Piglet68

05-27-2004, 03:21 AM

breathe, don't feel bad. we were way overdrawn last month, as i said.

i also had a downer moment today. my mum's been in town for 2 weeks, just left today. she was soooo generous. she wouldn't let us pay for anything. so we have ended up in the black this month. dh was so happy. then i realized that i hadn't paid two of our bills (student loan and car loan to mum) so if I had paid them we would still be in the red even with all the money we saved with her here. it's depressing as all hell. i know this will end in a few months, but i feel that it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

i'm being proactive by calling some debtors tomorrow (if i don't chicken out, i always find this embarrassing for some, probably psychotic, reason) and discuss some payment options. we simply cannot make ends meet right now. also need to know if my overdraft account application was approved. if so, we may be leanign on that for a while.

question: has anybody checked their credit rating lately? anybody know how/where you can get a free copy of your credit report (it truly irks me to have to pay for my own information!!)?

Carrielee

05-27-2004, 04:47 AM

I would recommend Robert Kiyosaki's books as a starting point...his website is also great. www.richdad.com.
The forums are a great place to learn. I'm a regular over there.
Carrie

georgia

05-27-2004, 07:58 AM

piglet68, you might check out this site...clark's a local consumer advocate, the three main credit bureaus are listed on this page (closer to the bottom):

http://clarkhoward.com/library/tips/credit_reports.html

bamboogrrrl

05-27-2004, 08:45 AM

Carrielee: I've heard a lot of bad things from the folks on the Simple Living forums about the Rich Dad, Poor Dad - mainly that the information is anecdotal and there isn't a plan to enact. Haven't read it myself... I'll check out the forums. Thanks for the link!

Vegmom: Sounds like you want fast money! If only that were possible without a lot of risk. Sigh. I'd be writing and making art full-time! The real estate idea has always been a good one for dh and I. Not sure what your local market is like, but with interest rates rising right now, prices will start to fall and you might want to wait to get a better price. Our first house had a guest house that we rented, and I really hated being a landlady with our tenants right next door. Hated it! Think hard if you want to be a landlady.

For the moment, you might work on eliminating your cc debt first, build up an emergency cushion (3-6 months worth of expenses) in a short-term CD, and throw some money at your mortgage (a form of savings) while you think about what real estate investments you'd like to make. The trouble with real estate being one's main investment is that it's not liquid if you need $$$$, unless you can rent something out and charge more in rent than your mortgage, taxes, and repairs cost. You also have a major chunk o' change tied up in something that can fluccuate a lot in the short term. Have you opened Roth IRAs for you and your DH? With investing, slow and steady wins the race. A constant savings no matter how small will compound fast if you stick with it. The whole idea behind YMOYL is to reduce spending, sock away bucks in low risk investments, and be able to choose one's life work without needing a salary.

As far as furniture goes, all ours came from dead relatives, parents' downsizing, the roadside, the dump, yard sales, Dh had made us a few pieces.
Sometimes financial constraints can make you come up with ideas for beautiful things... The image of you sitting on the floor typing...ack! A couple of end pieces (file cabinets, cut logs, cement blocks) with a board across is an excellent table.

Hey Piglet: Do you track your spending? When I started do this, I realized I didn't need a copy of the Weekly World News every time I went grocery shopping. "I was Bigfoot's loveslave..." could easily be left at the checkout after I giggled over it. I cut out a few magazine subscriptions when I saw the total I spent. I was able to reduce food spending when I saw how I was slurping up fancy Italian deli stuff. To see the harsh totals was eye-opening.

New Mainer: Breaking down an buying YMOYL is not the worst thing on earth! Certainly it's less bad than my breakfast trip to McDeath's this morning because I got out of the house late... Spending money for knowledge is never a bad thing. The problem is that fancy clothes, junk food and new cars are NOT knowledge. I think maybe buying ourselves time is a form of knowledge, and that's what we all want to do by getting ourselves out of debt. Excuse the digression...

On the Simple Living forums, someone came up with the "Find 100 bucks" challenge every month. The idea is to eliminate some expenses, find that stray 5 bucks in a coat pocket, sell a few books or CDs on amazon.com, go without something, in order to find a 100 bucks each month. When you turn it into a game, it's more fun and doesn't seem like deprivation.
Note: I started getting rid of books and CDs I didn't need any more, trolling library book sales and the Salvation Army for books. Since February, I made about $800. I throw it at the mortgage.

Carrielee

05-27-2004, 08:49 AM

Re Rich Dad...
you're kidding!
I love Robert and Kim's books...there are more than a dozen in the series.
Perhaps the forum posters at Simple Living just read Rich Dad, Poor Dad...
there are many others.
I love the entrepreneurial philosophy.

Carrie

bamboogrrrl

05-27-2004, 11:12 AM

Okay, I just looked closer at the Rich Dad, Poor Dad website, and I've got problems with it for a bunch of reasons that have to do with my increasing commitment to simple living and debt reduction. I'm sure there's some good points to RDPD, but it doesn't really work for my needs.

Owning and renting industrial property, owning franchises, etc. are a lot of work! It's not exactly that you can purchase an office building and let it pay for itself. The office building will have structural problems that need to be fixed, vacant units that needed to be rented, maintanence... This stuff is pretty risky. If this sounds like a fun thing to do, by all means go for it, but I didn't like landlording. We have an opportunity to buy dh's auto shop (he rents) which takes in $1,100 in rent/month for $350,000. That's math that makes absolutely no sense to me. I sooo agree that it would be great to have a business which required little maintenance, I'm just not sure what that would be.

When I looked at the forums, there seemed to be lots of predatory people asking for money for "the business deal of the century." YMOYL has a not-for-profit foundation component of their philosophy. RDPD is all profit driven.

Real estate has been good to us so far. We made a major chunk o' change on our first house, bought another that tripled in value over the last three years. RDPD says that owning your own home is not a good investment, and I beg to differ. From RDPD's prespective, one should buy stock on the margin with home equity, and to me, that's waaaaaay too risky. Owning one's home is like having a giant savings account to cash in when you sell. That's freedom!

I was also alarmed by the rhetoric of people wanting "more than enough" in their lives, planning for their three BMW households. Yuck!

I want less stuff, not more. I want to tread lightly on the earth. I want to simply my life and get DH to simplify his so his life calms down. I want to pay off my debt so I can have more choices about what to do with my time. I want to really enjoy life's pleasures, and not have to sit at my HSSJ (horrible, soul, sucking job) all day.

Note: Apologies for the rambling...Can you tell my HSSJ is making me surly today?

Carrielee

05-27-2004, 11:31 AM

I agree that many of the people on the forums are more materialistic than I will ever ever be...

<<I want less stuff, not more. I want to tread lightly on the earth. I want to simply my life and get DH to simplify his so his life calms down. I want to pay off my debt so I can have more choices about what to do with my time. I want to really enjoy life's pleasures>>

I agree wholeheartedly.
The thing is, sometimes things have to get more complicated before they can be simple...kwim?
Like making a price book for your groceries, up front work for tons of savings later on.
Or decluttering...work and time spent at first for the ease later.
What I have gotten from Kiyosaki's books are the principles of
learning how to build a business that doesn't need you to operate it day to day. And that of taking control, not letting the disempowering money attitudes that 97% of people embody suck you in.
I love the One Minute Millionaire by Robert Allen and Mark Victor Hansen for that reason too.
Ranting understood!

Carrie

Carrielee

05-27-2004, 11:32 AM

The www.richkid.com site has games for your kids to play to teach them the dangers of debt. My 6 year old enjoys them and is excited about making a profit at an ice cream stand. :)

Carrie

bamboogrrrl

05-27-2004, 11:49 AM

Carrielee: Your points are well taken! It IS important to get out of our limiting mindsets about money. I have a tennis friend from India who owns a gaggle of gas stations and has plenty of time to hit the courts. His wife is a SAHM, and he supports his parents and in-laws. Immigrants look at the opportunities here and go for it. Does it coincide with living simply? That's another question...

Ice cream is nature's perfect food - good luck to your 6 year old on his financial endeavors! Maybe I should set up a roadside ice-cream stand...

Piglet68

05-27-2004, 01:33 PM

Well, a positive report today.

I've contacted one debtor and made arrangements to pay it off in the next two months. It's a small debt, but it's one to scratch off the list. It feels good.

We are now working on some others, and some plans. I'm feeling somewhat positive, though still a bit overwhelmed by how fast this stuff can sneak up on you.

bamboogrrrl

05-27-2004, 01:39 PM

Piglet: Go grrrl, you rawk! When you pay that one off, you can take that amount and add it to your next loan.

kerc

05-27-2004, 08:51 PM

just checking in here -->
1. I move to make this a weekly or biweekly thread for ease in reading. Any seconds?

2. I have had a reasonably good week. We found out that dh might be making more money than we thought this summer. Of course it means 2 x the work for 2x the pay but :shrug

3. ebay -- help me let go to my dr martens. I had a pair for about 6 years. they were fabulous. fit great, etc. Wore out finally. Right after having dd I bought a second pair. Didn't get as much use out of them because, well, i had to take off my shoes every time I picked her up from daycare. somehow the 30 dollar lands end clogs worked better for that. they were warmer too. This fall the *new* docs had a cracked sole. I sent them back and got a brand new pair in return. those babies have been worn 3 x since novemeber. they aren't even broken in.

4. can someone give me a link to the 100 dollar a month game? I'd love to play.

5. is it someone here who keeps track of how much they haven't spent? meaning if you're in the line at target and have 3 items not on your initial list you put them back and record 10 bucks or whatever in your little notebook? I'm starting this tomorrow morning.

I do online bill paying now and regularly save 3.70 a month in stamps alone. I can't recall the last time i had to order checks or buy envelopes. It also helps me see where I have already paid.
and finally...piglet Great job calling the debt places up.

newmainer

05-27-2004, 08:55 PM

Here's my take on the RDPD thing vs. YMOYL.

Believe it or not, the janitor at the school I used to teach at gave me the audio CD's for one of Kiyosakis programs. I loved it. I looked beneath the money thing, and really he has a lot of the same life philosophies as YMOYL- specifically, integrity and being responsible for yourself. No, he doesn't talk about the environment or social responsbility, that's up to you to decide if that's important (though, I prefer someone who is encouraging people to make money to address that). His thing isn't even really about being filthy rich, its about understanding money and making it work for you the way you want.

Bambogrrrl, I totally agree about the treading lightly. For me, his program is not about making tons of money to buy your doodads. Its about being able to put that money toward having more time with my family (right now, dh is the sole working person in the house because he can charge *way* more for his time than i ever could, but he works like 12 hours a day), and causes I believe in. I looked at his program and thought, well, it could work for me but I have to do it according to *my* values, which is where YMOYL comes in for me. I have no interest in starting a corporation. i have no interest in buying stocks and mutual funds etc.. in markets that are not socially responsible. We are going to go the real estate route but plan on not burning out by eventually working with a management company. Yes, this is way long term. Both of mine and dh's parents have been/are property owners. Dealing with it yourself on a daily basis is tiring and high burnout. But, when you can turn it over to someone else to manage, then while you give up some of your profit, you retain your energy for family, finding other investments/ property, volunteering, etc...

But, its going to take a long time before we see any substantial amount of positive/passive cash flow from this. So in the meantime, its saving as best we can. I am finding a real workable balance and nuggets of gold (no pun!) in both of the RDPD and YMOYL programs. I wouldn't go to the RD forums- i think the attitude most would bring there (as you have mentioned) would irritate me and turn me off. I prefer the Simple Living discussions.

oh, and regarding the house as not an asset. His point is that anything that is not making you money is a liability. Its fine to have liabilities as long as you understand that that's what they are. My house is not making me any money right now- its taking it. Same with a car. If we were to move out and rent it out for more than my mortgage, then it wouldn't be. He goes into a lot more detail in the program. But he says he's not advocating not buying a house, just understanding how it affects your finanances.

vegmom- I hear ya! We just inherited a couch from my nana- the most *heinous!!* floral pattern you can imagine. But- whatever! its a couch. I am hitting the yardsales this weekend for some shelves so I can unpack my books (we moved across country and sold all furniture but our dining table we bought with wedding money). Maybe then I can go through them and sell some LoL!! I used to have such furniture fantasies... I'm over them. But its frustrating. I echo the suggestions about quick makeshift furniture... and have you checked out freecycle.org? there might be one in your area, or you could start one.

ekblad9

05-27-2004, 08:56 PM

Yes, let's start a new thread.

I'm doing sucky in the spending department. At lest I rarely buy anything at full price. Wearing a pair of jammies that I didn't intend to by at Target tonight. I went there for a gift card for ds1's friend's birthday party tomorrow and plates/napkins/etc for my friend's Confirmation party that I'm having here on Sunday. I walked out with more than I intended to buy but not too badly. My pj's that I've had since 1995 wore out this week. Big holes. Not bad for 9 years, 4 pregnancies and lots of weight fluxuation. So that's why the new jammies.

newmainer

05-27-2004, 09:01 PM

kerc, we cross posted.

i was the one who said i keep track of things i wanted to buy, but didn't. So far my purchased list is far longer... not sure if that's good or bad? probably bad since we're trying to save money!!

down for the weekly or biweekly thread. Under tribe, or PG, or where?

CryPixie83

05-27-2004, 11:50 PM

down for the weekly or biweekly thread. Under tribe, or PG, or where?

Probably Tribe.. not all of us are preggies :)

I sat down and looked over our budget and debts this week... looks like we can get a few of the smaller ones taken care of in the next 6 months :)

DF is first in line for a new position that may be opening at work (after only being at the company for a month!!! Of course it helps that his big brother has been there a few years lol) which would mean better pay, but odd hours (3:30 am til 9-ish am) but I figure with the baby coming our sleep schedule is going to be screwy anyway lol

I've been really slacking off when it comes to working. I work from home as a video chat host (I perform adult webcam shows), but this month I just *haven't* felt any desire to, erm... perform. So needless to say money has been even tighter :( It really got to me today, because I know we need the money, especially with the baby due at the end of June. But, being 35 weeks pregnant doesn't exactly do wonders to make me feel up to it (not exactly feeling sexy, desirable, etc even though my sex drive is pretty high right now). I'm going to try to get myself motivated, or at least pretend to be, and try to make some money... wish me luck lol

I'm thinking of going through all the "stuff" I have stashed in the basement, seeing if anything is ebay-able. Probably going to hit some garage sales too... I know, seems counter-productive, but it's worth a shot, and I don't plan on spending too much.

bamboogrrrl

05-28-2004, 07:38 AM

Kerc: The "Find a 100 bucks" each month challenge was at http://www.simpleliving.net/forums/default.asp under "Frugality and Tightwadding." It seems to have slacked off over the last couple of months, but maybe we could start that here among our mamaselves.

Ekblad: You needed pajamas! It's not like you went out and bought a gold plated salad spinner... I would have found the best jammies I could on sale and gone for it too. There's a big part of YMOYL that talks about "no shame/no blame." The idea is that we're trying to do better, and we are. Sometimes we do worse, but we have to move on and not get down on ourselves about it. Next time we do better. All the times we don't get sucked into consumerism, we get closer to the ultimate goal: Financial Independence.

Crypixie: At 35 weeks pregnant? Go easy on yourself and early congrats! Maybe going through the stuff in the basement and readying for an ebay adventure would be a good meditation...

Newmainer: I just unpacked my books too (after being in our house for three years)! I was holding out for new bookshelves for a book shrine (DH restored one room last year - in 1860 it was probably the front parlour - into our "library"), shopped around, didn't like anything I saw and everything was sooooo expensive. I had wanted to get rid of my 15-year-old pine Ikea shelves that looked soooo college. To solve the bookshelf dilemna, dh found a beautiful dark sherry stain, stained them, and they look acceptable, even slightly hip now. $5 in stain for two bookshelves vs. $700/each for new ones. It's weirdly fun to work within contraints...

Not that it really matters, but why not keep this thread here? It really IS about personal growth...

kerc

05-28-2004, 08:10 AM

nak
buying more than saving ---> well unless you don't buy groceries, etc. of course you would. i don't necessarily think that's bad -- more that it is good that you think about what you buy.

new thread---> i guess i was thinking shorter thread here in personal growth. more new people might be able to read a shorter thread and jump in. i'm proposing a weekly thread i guess,
Ekblad: You needed pajamas! It's not like you went out and bought a gold plated salad spinner... I would have found the best jammies I could on sale and gone for it too. There's a big part of YMOYL that talks about "no shame/no blame." The idea is that we're trying to do better, and we are. Sometimes we do worse, but we have to move on and not get down on ourselves about it. Next time we do better. All the times we don't get sucked into consumerism, we get closer to the ultimate goal: Financial Independence.

ITA!! another thing is that the ymoyl book talks about the importance of buying decent stuff and taking care of it. so spending a little cash on jammies is not ridiculous if you wash them and don't just leave them in a heap in the laundry rom for months on end.

Peppermint

05-28-2004, 08:43 AM

PG= personal growth :wink

I started us a new thread at:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=1518371

Come subscribe there ladies. As sad as it is that so many of us have to deal with this- I am glad to have the support here at my favorite board :)
:grouphug

gurumama

05-29-2004, 08:08 PM

New to this thread, but not the concept. An FYI--this weekend isn't just Memorial Day weekend--it's move-out weekend for college studen ts who live in apartment complexes in college towns.

Our dumpster in our apartment complex is amazing right now. There's a beautiful wooden futon frame, a bunch of floor fans, some empty plastic laundry baskets, assorted large rubbermaid totes--and people will haul out the old charis, tables, end tables, exercise bikes, etc. over the weekend, abandoned for garbage.

If you need furnishings and don't mind "trash picking," go to a[artment complexes this weekend in college and university towns! Apartment managers LOVE people to take the things--then the apartment complex doesn't have to pay to have the things hauled away!

gurumama

05-29-2004, 08:09 PM

And most of the stuff is OUTSIDE the dumpster--you don't have to climb in. :wink

Peppermint

05-30-2004, 08:27 AM

gurumama- great tip! Come join us at the new thread! :D
http://www.mothering.com/discussion...d.php?p=1518371

KatSG

06-02-2004, 04:08 PM

(edited to say: Whoops! I got so excited about this thread that I didn't realize that it's SIX pages now and posted without reading everything. I'll catch up and come back...)

I run a design company and dh works for a web metrics company. I want to sell my company and stay home before we have another kid (looking at a 2-3 year timetable, if I make it that long, already considering a plan B), and dh wants to start another company. First, though, we need to get our debt down. The bad debt is credit cards, of course. My car will be paid off in a few months, my student loan should be paid in about 18 months and we're saving a little b/c I created a health care plan for my company so I get some of my insurance costs covered. By end of summer we should have an extra $600 to start whiddling away at the debt. I looked at the cheapskate.com site and found an interesting calculator that helps you rethink your payment strategy: Payment calculator (http://www.cheapskatemonthly.com//member_tools_rdrpdemo_rdrpdemo2.asp) . I think I'll look into that.

One thing that has made the last year bearable for us is going to a financial advisor. I am at heart a miser and dh is one of those people that really believes you have to spend money to make money, and goes too far! He also isn't good at long-term planning. This woman, who we met through American Express, really helped us, and kept us out of marriage counseling! PM me if you're in the Portland area and are looking for someone. She rocks.

I know the thing I really have to work at is the food budget, like someone else said. Since I've been working and had the baby I just can't find time to cook or plan meals, beyond making a big batch of cooked chicken once a week, which does help with time, but that's only a few meals a week. I really have to figure out a way to make healthy meals again quickly, and cook and freeze to save money so I'm not buying so much packaged foods.

Peppermint

06-02-2004, 04:44 PM

Kat-
Welcome :)

We have started a new thread- come join us:
http://www.mothering.com/discussion...d.php?p=1518371

lilyka

06-02-2004, 05:08 PM

The link isn't working for me so i will respond to cat here. about cooking. You should check out the magazine "Quick Cooking" . You can get a sub scription for $12 for 6 issues and I only needed to get it for a year to get enough recipies. It has tips for cheap meals, meals with planned left overs, bulk cooking, homemade mixes, under 15 minute meals and crock pot and cassaroles (that freeze easy) I found it very helpful. ogh and the stuff is yummy and looks good.

ekblad9

06-02-2004, 06:41 PM

KatSG - Did you pay for the calculator and was it worth it?

lilyka

06-02-2004, 09:31 PM

Discover amt. charged: 4,000.00 intrest rate 16.00 payment amount 120.00 total intrest paid 4,289.69 # ofpayments 254 (just for the record that is 5 years)

Insane!!!! This is what my dh used to do for a living. show people who much that shirt that was on sale, that they had to have, was costing them in the end.

Heather Feather

06-02-2004, 11:31 PM

We too are working on getting out of debt. We have massive credit card debt that we hate :angry . We just went to the bank and applied for a home equity loan so we can consolidate those and then get rid of them. We moved to a small farm in January and are growing our own vegies. The next step is to get a few chickens for eggs. A couple of good magazines we've found for getting you into a more sustainable/frugal mindset are Back Home and Mother Earth News.

I'm reading a really interesting book right now called the Complete Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyczyn. Its full of all sorts of tips to save money. If you get it I suggest reading the success stories at the back for inspiration first.

We definitely need to change some habits. I like to order things online and we like to eat out way to much and eat too many convenience foods at home. Its definitely going to take some work.

We did cut the cable and haven't missed it. We still have one car payment and the mortgage but its definitely the credit cards that are killing us. If you saw how much my husband and I actually make a year, its an absolute crime that we've let ourselves get in this position but we are ready to make a change. I'm pregnant with our first and my goal is to be in the position to go part time at work by the time the baby is born.

I'm also reading another book called Your Money or Your Life. I'm working on the first step so I'll keep you posted on whether that is working or not.

I think its a great idea for us to support each other in this because it is so hard. I do believe it can be done and have faith in all of us to get there!

Peppermint

06-03-2004, 07:33 AM

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=150632

Hopefully this link will work to get us all onto the same thread. :)

bamboogrrrl

06-03-2004, 07:45 AM

Heather Feather: Careful with paying off your credit cards with a home equity loan. You end up tying debt to your house and if you can't make the payments, you can lose the house! The other probem is that paying off credit card debt with a HEL does not change the habits that got you INTO debt. Better if you call the credit card companies and try to get your interest rate lowered (threatening to switch to another card if they don't lower it is a good idea...), and then you can start "snowballing" your debt payments. You can either wrestle the debt with the highest interest rate or the one with the smallest amount. When that one is paid, take that payment and apply it in addition to the minimum payment you were making on the next debt. By the time you attack your last debt, you'll have a lot of $$$ to throw at it and it will be gone before you know it.

Hey, I just got the first Tightwad Gazette book at a yard sale for a quarter! It's really helpful (but a bit dated in terms of specific financial advice). Amy is a blast tho and really inspiring! DH found a box of 24 canning jars for 5 bucks this past weekend at a yard sale - we need them for jam and maple syrup (dh makes syrup each spring on a small scale) - so that was a cool find...

Bethla

06-13-2004, 02:42 PM

We have a pretty big credit card debt, we owe my mother-in-law money (that one's the worst) and we have a second mortgage on our house. How did it get that bad? Because we were stupid! For some reason my husband and I couldn't except the fact that we shouldn't spend more than we earn. We never looked at money realistically. Just charge it and pay it later. You only live once, was my money motto.

We live in an old home that needs a lot of work. The past few years we've neglected stuff around the house and instead went out and had fun. My husband and I finally woke up. We made some major life changes too. I quit my job which was 30 hours a week. My husband stayed home with the kids during the day and then went to work at night. We never saw each other and were really stressed out all the time. We did that for almost seven years. Now I work on the weekends, 16 hours. We manage to get by. And we are so much happier. We don't eat out anymore, which we used to do every weekend. Also, we think more about our purchases. We asked my husband's mother,graciously of course, if we could put off making payments until we get some stuff done around the house. She may resent it, but we plan on paying her back eventually. I've gone back to school and have a career plan now, so when the kids are in school, I can work at a job that pays me decently and has a future.

Yes, we made mistakes in the past and I know we will continue to make them. But I think we are on the right track. I'm not going to let my debt control the way I feel or my future.