First Child Stillborn - Pregnant with Second Child

[wilkers8]

This is the next stage of my journal. The first stage was written solely for Connor. This stage is for both Connor and this new baby. The other post is in the loss forum (I believe that Ms. Mom will be archiving this post for me). I've come to be so attached to the support that I've received on this site that starting a journal for my eyes only during this next stage just didn't seem right. So I welcome all of you to share this next stage with me. I hope that this journal brings not only me comfort as the first one did but is helpful to someone else as well.

My lmp was on June 11th and I knew I ovulated on the 24th of June, so I began testing on Friday. I knew Sunday was really the earliest that I would get a positive but I had a gut feeling that I was pregnant. I had started dreaming again and some of the dreams involved maternity clothes, etc. Not to mention the fact that starting about Friday/Saturday, I have gone to the bathroom about 8-9 times a day. But the tests were always negative until Monday, July 5th morning where I got the faintest line on the First Response HPT. I could hardly believe it. I went straight into the bedroom and woke up my husband...yelling "is that a second line or am I going nuts". He so calmly looked at me with this big smile on his face and said "yep, that's a second line". We sat in bed for a while and he said "Hi baby", so I proceeded to say hi but he responded with "I wasn't talking to you"...I don't think the smile left my face for the next hour. I then had an incrediable urge to go into the nursery. This is where I spent some time talking to Connor and to this baby. I was rather surprised but fear has not really settled in yet. I'm pretty much too excited. However, I'm all too familiar with how quickly that can change so I'm just enjoying it while I can.

An event happened last week that I want to share as this was another slap that I didn't expect/anticipate. So my insurance agent called and said he had left himself a note that in June we would want to update our beneficiaries for birth of our child. I had to inform him that Connor passed away in March. Before I could even get out two words, the tears were falling down my face. Not from having to say Connor passed away but from realizing that Connor will never be a beneficiary. He immediately felt horrible and kept repeating "I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry." This was just another reminder that I am in this small group of people that a happy ending doesn't happen for. This was just another reminder that an event that could have been positive/appreciated instead became a painful reminder that we have a son but yet our beneficiaries remain only my husband and I. I don't think I will be informing my insurance agent about this little one.

Informing people...with Connor, we said that we wouldn't tell anyone until we were at least 12 weeks pregnant (due to fear of miscarriage). However, we were already telling people the weekend we found out when I was only four weeks pregnant. We were just too excited to not share the news. Plus, I felt like I was lying to people when I would talk to them and not tell them our news. Now for this little baby, I am having a complete array of emotions. I think my biggest fear is that people will treat me like this is the answer to my grief and that we should no longer talk about Connor. The fear of miscarriage still remains but I now realize that I will need support if something were to happen. So I guess the best answer is to only tell those that have proven to be supportive with the loss of Connor. As for everyone else, they can wait until I'm pretty much showing and can't deny it anymore.

Question of the day: Did you tell people right away? If so, who did you tell? What were some of the responses? (ok...so three questions, who is really counting)

[SamuraiEarthMama]

i did not have a still birth, but two m/cs, and with all my pregnancies (including this one) i try not to tell before 10 weeks. with this one, i wasn't going to tell until i felt movement, but at 11 weeks my midwife offered to try to listen with a doppler... normally i'm not a big u/s fan, but i jumped at the opportunity. sure enough, we heard the baby! and of course i couldn't keep my trap shut... i immediately started telling everyone (we phoned the grandparents that night).

i guess i just can't keep a secret!

k

[SweetTeach]

OH my goodness!
I'm so happy for you I don't even know what to say.
:love :love

[HaveWool~Will Felt]

I think my biggest fear is that people will treat me like this is the answer to my grief and that we should no longer talk about Connor.

I felt a strong and overwhelming need to respond to this quote instead of answering the question of the day...sorry Wilkers... :wink

First, I am so happy for you I can hardly stand myself...I almost jumped out of my seat when I read the first post about you being pg.
On to the quote...

People are going to treat you different Wilkers...it is a known fact that the ignorant people you know and don't know...will treat you different. Ok, maybe I shouldn't say ignorant...couldn't find a better word to use...sorry... however...fully expect that some will even treat as if you have NEVER been pregnant before, that this is your first child, your first time with everything surrounding mamahood. <BIG SIGH> :crying
As you can see, this area really bothers me...damn it...it really hurts me. The tears I shed are for not only my own pain...but all of us mamas...especailly the mamas whose first child has died...
The fear you have mentioned is so real...so damn real...

Onto something more positive... :jumpers:
I want to see pictures every 4 weeks of you...OK? Please give a huge hug to yourself and to Pete for me..I am so happy for the BOTH of you.
Lots of love honey...looking forward to this journey with you, dh and Connor...

:bouncy :throb :twothumbs :1praying: :clap :bgbounce :baby :dust :storkboy :love :thumb :heartbeat :belly

[Katana]

Wilkers, I'm so happy for you!! Just so happy... :bgbounce :bgbounce

:dust :sticky

[wilkers8]

Reading such positive responses to my news is so wonderful. Especially since each of you know that this means I can only take things one step at a time and to be as happy and joyful as I can be while still having so much fear inside.

I've only told my closest friends (except for the one, who just had a baby as I'm waiting for her to call me back). I knew the responses with them would be fine. My husband and I have decided that we will really wait to tell family or friends that I haven't shared this journal with at least until we hear the heartbeat. Then we may tell a few more people and hold off on the rest until we pretty much can't deny that I'm pregnant. I don't think that will take long as my stomach still sticks out some (I gained almost all of the weight in my stomach for Connor).

I called my doctor this morning as it's been two weeks since I took that second test for APS. Both tests came back positive for the igm antibody (53 & 61, were the range is <20 normal, 20 - 80 moderate and 80> high). My doctor requested that I start taking baby aspirin one a day. I'm so terrified by this test and I don't get to ask my doctor any questions until Thursday (next appt). Due to these results and the fear that I'm having I am working on switching to a Maternal-Fetal Medicine OB-GYN practice with one of the best hospitals. I should have this all approved by the middle of next week and I'm already feeling more confident knowing that they will be working with me.

With this news, pretty much a majority of my joy is gone. Fear has completely set in. My husband has the approach that there is no reason to be consumed with things that we can't control and as long as we are doing everything we can, then that's enough. But I can't believe this. I want this baby so badly. However, my fear for this baby is enormous now. I'm trying to only focus on the immediate threats such as etopic pregnancy and blighted ovum but in the back of my mind...the statistics of a successful pregnancy with this syndrome (75-80% chance of success). These are just not the odds I was looking for but then again I didn't even really like the odds of 97% for unknown cause. I'm trying to remain positive and I can't even count the number of times that I've said out loud "Please stay with us baby". Then I remember something my husband said...we at least can conceive easily and with conception gives hope that we'll eventually have one of the good odds come out. I am thankful for this but it doesn't stop me from wanting more.

Question of the day: How do you stay positive with so much fear?

[wilkers8]

Due Date...I am still a little in disbelief over this but here's the story. This baby's due date is officially 3/18 (based on a 28 day cycle). However, I knew that I ovulated on June 24th, which would mean that I had a 27 day cycle this month. This means that the real due date is...3/17...Connor's anniversary date. At first, I was really bothered by this as the thought of having another child on this day was very upsetting. Then I remembered that my doctors are planning on inducing me early (36-38 weeks) so there won't be any chance that I will deliver on this day. Then I started thinking what are the chances that this would be the due date for my new baby...pretty freakin slim. So I'm making myself believe that this is a sign from Connor that this baby will be staying with us. Not sure whether I'm thinking of this baby as a gift from Connor or to Connor on his anniversary date but I have to believe that this is a positive sign.

However, after my meeting with my doctor today, I could care less what day this baby is delivered as long as we get to bring this baby home. My doctor was completely fine (and was thinking about suggesting it anyway) of going to an MFM doctor. So the process of switching should be completed by next week. I was able to ask a number of questions regarding APS. I'm absolutely terrified. The reality is that I have 20-30% chance of recurrent pregnancy loss even when treated. Why!!!!!! I know I shouldn't panic as the odds are still in favor of being ok but how can I possibly think that I'm not going to beat the odds. With this syndrome, I'm at risk for thrombosis, pre-term birth, placenta displacement, pre-eclampsia, etc. I didn't show any of these problems during, after or before Connor's birth but I'm not sure if this was just because I was only in my 27th week. So there's a real possibility that I could be delivering this child even as early as in January. However, there is something to note, they can not be certain that this is what caused Connor's death as there were no clots found but it's the likely cause. I'm trying to just focus on the first milestone date...July 26th (about 6.5 weeks) where I will have an ultrasound done to verify that there is a baby (i.e. no etopic pregnancy or blighted ovum) and then I will be put on Heparin (I continue to take one baby aspirin a day until then). Can I just tell you how much I absolutely hate needles! Obviously, I will not hesitate to do this as it would mean possibility having a baby at home but this doesn't stop the fear...this doesn't stop the worrying...this doesn't stop the negative thoughts. When we thought the reason was completely unexplained, I did have a false sense of security that this won't possibly happen to me again...now I can't hide behind that, I have this huge statistic hanging over my head screaming...recurrent pregnancy loss.

I feel like my husband got a raw deal...a defective woman. I know that's not completely true. I also know that my husband doesn't really feel this way but how can I not. There's something wrong with my body and I'm now at risk for a number of things (deep vein thrombosis, etc). However, I don't really care right now what it means for me individually...I just care what it means for my husband and I as far as children go. I just hate that we did everything right...and yet, we're the ones with no baby. I try to believe that I haven't overcome all of things in my life to end up without the one thing that I wanted the most...to raise a child. Please, oh please, let this baby be the first baby that we get to raise.

Question of the day: How do you start believing in beating the odds, when you didn't the first time?

[zinemama]

Oh, Wilkers! Congratulations, I am so happy for you. I did not participate in your other thread, but followed it from the day of your first post. I so admired the strength of your spirit and the honesty of your writing. As someone who has never experienced anything like you did, I did not feel I wanted to comment, but as a writer, I was so impressed with the way you translated your experience into words. I have never been as happy to see anything on this board as I was to read the title of this thread. Many many good wishes to you, mama!

[SweetTeach]

T- one of the first things that popped into my head was that your new due date would be extremely close to Connor's birth/death date. I'm glad you've found a way to feel comfortable with that. Make sure you become informed about inductions and such because a) they are not 100% safe (as in risk free) and b) this pregnancy may not give you cause for an automatic induction, just because you lost Connor in your last pg. Easier said than done, right?

Question of the day: How do you start believing in beating the odds, when you didn't the first time?
Well, I don't know if this is what you want to hear, but I'm of the mindset that it doesn't make sense to try and pretend like you're not scared of losing against the odds. Your (our) reality is that you didn't beat the odds and that's all you know in regards to pg. You can still have hope that there will be a different outcome, but you may just have to have the negative thoughts, express them and try to put them aside. Try to not let them rule your life for the next 260 days or so. I think that's how I'm going to try and look at it the next time I'm pg because I'd be kidding myself if I thought I won't be sitting around planning my next child's funeral on some level. Our experience is that pregnancy ends in death. Hopefully (and I really do fervently hope and pray that) all of us will be able to write a new ending to that story.

I wish you didn't have to deal with all this crap and that you could just kick back and enjoy your pg!
I love that you've started this journal for Connor and his sister. I have a feeling it's a girl :love

[HaveWool~Will Felt]

Question of the day: How do you start believing in beating the odds, when you didn't the first time?

You know that I lost my first pregnancy in 1996. I was 19-20 weeks with that baby. After a series of things happening in my life (ie:divorce, financially screwed, lots of medical issues) I got pregnant with Gavin in July 1998. I was so scared that EVERYTHING was going to go wrong. The first OB I saw was ruthless...she told me on my first visit to prepare for the worse, don't expect to have an easy pregnancy, yada, yada, yada...
My entire point is this....I knew in my heart of hearts (after long hours of searching my heart) that I would birth the child I was carrying. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would hold this baby, ALIVE, in my arms no matter what. I made the decision to make a radical move and went the midwife route. (I didn't believe that I was high risk, even when the doctors had told me so)...I researched, I met with several different midwives...and they helped restore my faith. They saw me every two weeks until my 36 week, then I went to once a week. Whatever had to be done to insure ME that this baby was OK...they did it.
I am not saying that you should dump your docs...that isn't my intentions at all...what I truly am trying to say is that I needed someone that BELIEVED IN ME AS MUCH AS I WANTED TO BELIEVE THAT THIS BABY WAS GOING TO BE OK...I finally found that connection.
I needed to be wrapped in secure arms that would tell me we were OK...I believe today that with the help I recieved from my midwives, the guided imagery I did every day, the visualization of birthing this baby, everything I did to SHAPE mine and this childs spirit...all paid off in the end.
Through the pain of my fear and overcoming it, I soon learned to listen to the spirit within me, to listen to the women that had gone before me, to trust in something than my own power...I gave birth to a beautiful baby boy, weighing a whopping 10 pounds on March 21, 1999. Little Gavin is such an old soul...he reminds me everyday that ANYTHING is possible. That miracles are a change in our perception. He is the child that won't kill a bug, just because it MUST have a spirit like him, he says.

So...how I started believing that I WOULD beat the odds wasn't easy. It was the hardest thing I ever did. I know that is why I have been able to do somewhat OK after Gracie died. Simply because I know that I HAVE BEAT THE ODDS...even after losing TWO children. Both that I love very much and someday will met face to face. One that I held in my arms for 6 days before I could have her cremated. YES, the fact still remains, I have two living children also...HOWEVER they came after my first baby died in my womb.

:crying Wilkers, oh honey...I want to hold you and whisper to you that this baby is going to be OK...so are you. I would love to help you do whatever had to be done to insure that this baby was born ALIVE and healthy to meet you and Pete, to help restore your faith and to truly believe that MIRACLES ARE A CHANGE IN OUR PERCEPTION.

[AP Momma]

Wilkers Congratulations! I am so happy to hear of your pregnancy.

I can totally understand your fear. The odds aren't great in your favor but they are in your favor. Think about this for a sec: 1 out of every 4 or 5 (depends which studies you read) pregnancies end in miscarriage in the first trimester. That's a 25% odd of never making it to week 14. Yet everyday we see thousands of healthy babies being born every single day. Thousands of babies a day are born despite those odds. It's a pretty cool thing.

You have a 80% chance of having a healthy baby in 30+ weeks. If my odds of winning the lottery were 80% I'd be buying a whole heck of a lot of lottery tickets! Thats exactly what you have in your uterus; a winning ticket for the lottery.

I'm not going to pretend and tell you that you may never suffer another loss. I have suffered two despite an 8%-12% odd of reaccurance. But you have to believe that this baby is going to come home to that precious nursery. If not for your own mentality but for that little baby bean growing this very second. You have to believe so that baby grows strong and knows that you believe in him/her.

It's ok to be scared. I'm scared ... I'm petrified. I'm just 5 days into my second trimester and started spotting yesterday for the first time this pregnancy. I don't know what the future holds for my little butter bean. I am pouring love into my baby and wishing s/he to stay.

There was a point yesterday when I just felt defeated. How can I possibly be spotting? Haven't we been through enough burying two sons, the last just 6 months ago? I felt myself give up and lose hope for this baby. We went through a month of bleeding, bedrest and hospital stays with each boy and still gave birth to tiny babies too young to survive. This spotting meant the beginning of the end.

I then came to my senses. My baby needs his/her Momma to fight regardless of the odds. I don't know my medical odds of another abruption after having two. My Ob has been practicing for 30 years and has never had a patient experience two abruptions. In my online travels I have yet to find a Mom that has had two abruptions. What does that give me for odds? I don't know but I'm willing to bet it's not great.

I gave up for a while yesterday. My little baby needs me and I'm going to be there. So we unpacked some infant clothes from storage to wash and put into the baby's dresser. DH is bringing up the cradle to set up next to my bed so I can envision our baby coming home and nursing all night long.

Sure a little piece of me worries that I'll have to take down the baby things much too soon. I worry about DH and how he feels he has to protect me. I worry about how the heck I would tell my 6 year old if we lose a third sibling she was expecting to come home and love. I worry that I may never come out of the dark cloud if we lose another and my husband and children will be left with an emotional shell for a wife and mother.

But more than the fear I am thrilled about having another baby. I have daydreams of birthing my baby. I dream about nursing all night with a baby tucked between DH & I. I think about tiny baby toes and washing a full baby tummy at tub time. I can't wait to feel my baby kick. I can't wait to waddle from a big ole baby. I am teary envisioning our baby tucked into a tiny ball asleep on my husbands chest. I have a picture in my mind of my husband wrapping his arms around our newborn baby both asleep in our bed.

It has to happen. It will happen.

Kris

[iris0110]

I just joined in on this thread and I wanted to adress a couple of things. First of all like I said on the other thread I am just so happy for you I could burst. I don't know how to tell you how happy I am, and at the same time I am really hoping to join you this month.

Alright on to the dates. It does seem so strange that your baby has the same due date as Connor's aniversary. I like the thought that this baby is a gift from Connor to you. But I can see how it would be scary too. If I don't concieve this month I am thinking about taking next month off. I concieved Arawyn in August, if I keep trying next month I would have a due date a mere 4 days off of Arawyn's. I don't think I could handle that. But I am really hoping that this month is it. I am feeling a little like I am, but I may just be trying to convince myself, kwim?

As for keeping a positive attitude. I don't know how to do that. We have all gotten such a raw deal, and had our butts kicked by the odds. But I feel like this is really your time. I can't say why, I'm not really sure, but I feel like this baby is definately going to stay with you. If you want I can email you every day saying "You will have this baby and you will be happy." I can definately understand why you are worried, and I am glad you are getting it out. It is definately better to vent those feelings here, than to let them build up and keep bothering you. And your husband got really lucky in marrying you. You have such a fighting spirit, and you haven't let anything beat you. That is a wonderful quality, and I know you will pass it on to all of your children.

Now I have one request, could you send some of that baby dust my way. :dust ;)

[wilkers8]

zinemama...knowing that I (really Connor) has touched people, who have not experienced a stillbirth (or even a loss in some cases), is sometimes even a little more rewarding. I wish I had read someone's journal like this years ago as I might have been a better friend to those that I knew, who suffered a miscarriage. Thank you for the well wishes!

SweetTeach...I know there are risks to being induced but there is a real possibility my butt will be checked into a hospital starting around 32 weeks. If I'm in a hospital, than I'll be ok with going as long as I can but it will probably be a balance between trying to not induce to early but trying to still vaginally deliver. The longer we wait, the more likely I will be forced into a c-section. When it comes to this decision (although, I reserve the right to change my mind many times), I will leave this into my doctor's hands. I feel even more confident about doing this when my new doctor is an MFM.

jackieg213...there are definitely moments where I completely believe that this baby will be born alive. This might sound odd but I play it over in my head on what the emotions will feel like when I hear my baby cry. However, whenever I have this feeling, I immediately get concerned that my hopes are getting too high. These doctors have already been incredibly supportive so I'm not concerned there. However, I think my biggest problem is whenever someone else, who hasn't experienced a loss, tells me this baby is going to be ok...my immediate thought is "easy for you to say, you're baby is with you". I know that's mean considering they are trying to support me but it's still what goes through my mind.

AP_Momma...thank you, putting the odds in that light actually gave me hope. I'm sorry that you were/are spotting. I can only imagine what fear that puts into you...I think I check myself every two hours just to make sure there's no spotting. You sound like you have an amazing spirit, which I'm sure translates into you children having amazing fighting spirits. I too have thought of things to do really early on in this pregnancy that I hadn't even begun to think about with my pregnancy for Connor. Oh and thank you...after reading some of the images you have, I tried to imagine my husband with a baby lying on his chest and I must have cried for hours. (Read iris0110 post after yours for this next statement.) You will have this baby and you will be happy.

iris0110...first, I've already been saying little hopes that I hear from you soon that we'll be going down this path together. Actually, when I was writing the post, I laughed a little on how much I was wishing for this (I never thought I would be a person, who became so addicted and attached to the people on a message board). I had a very strong feeling like I was, especially when my dreams returned and I was peeing 9 times a day (even though it was really too early to have symptoms.) I smiled so big when I saw your offer of an email...I think I don't need that everyday but when my posts are really depressing...that would be great.

My husband looked at me the other day and mentioned he could now stop scanning the mail for baby stuff. I had no idea he had been doing this. Apparently, he's been making sure to get the mail and throwing out any baby mailings. I can only imagine how much he's thrown out due to just the few days that I did beat him to the mail and found something along the lines of "congrats on your new baby". I just love him more each time I find something out like this.

So I figured out the day that I want to do something with Connor's ashes...9/17. This would be my birthday, Connor's half anniversary date and will be 14 weeks done with this new baby. This just seems like the right day. Now for the million dollar question...what to do. I'm still hoping this answer comes to me but at least I now have a little more time to figure out what to do. Right now, I'm just glad that I've picked a date and am happy with this thought.

SweetTeach also mentioned that she has a feeling this baby is a girl. Well, knowing stories of her intuition...I might be led to believe this. However, my husband's line is very male dominant. Our niece is the first girl in over 50 years...so it's possible, just not likely. I still don't have any vibes either way. I think I'm just so happy to have this baby with me. I don't know which I would prefer. Part of me thinks if the baby is a girl, it would be a little easier...but easier is such a loose term regardless. However, in my head, I just pictured the first baby to raise in this home would be a boy. When we were pregnant with Connor, neither one of us (nor at least my husband never admitted to) really wanting a particular sex over the other. My husband just wanted twins, which I detested that idea. However, now with the knowledge I know now and despite the added risk of twins...the idea of having two babies at the end of this and one less pregnancy to stress through...well, it doesn't sound that bad. (Note: my second HCG level one the day of 4 weeks completed was 182. I was only expecting it to be a 100 max based on the traditional doubling. If it keeps growing at this level, it could be a sign that we are carrying twins. My family line has twins in every other generation).

Question of the day: Do I seem greedy to now be hoping for twins, just to have two of my own babies in my arms?

[HaveWool~Will Felt]

Question of the day: Do I seem greedy to now be hoping for twins, just to have two of my own babies in my arms?

No, No, No, No... :nono :nono :nono :nono

There is nothing greedy about hoping for such a blessing....
:love

[farmlife]

Congrats on this pregnancy, Wilkers! I think I jumped in my chair when I read the news. Wishing you and your dh all the things you need to have a happy, healthy pregnancy and a precious babe to hold for many years to come.
I too never thought I could become so attached to an online chat group or online anything.

[catmuse11]

Wilkers~

Can you tell me more about how you learned that you needed to test your antibody levels? Did Connor's test results point in this direction or were they inconclusive? (Maybe you already mentioned this in your last thread??)

Looking for advice....

[wilkers8]

jackieg213...I think I go ahead and wish for it but I'll hold onto the biggest wish of just having a baby in my arms.

farmlife3...thank you very much for the well wishes. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that's completely changed my tune about message boards.

catmuse11...Since I used an OB-GYN, they do a battery of tests upon any stillbirth (unless you decline them). One of the tests that they have found a relation to miscarriages and stillbirths is this Syndrome (APS). They tested me for everything from Lupus to every STD. They lost the group of antibody tests and my doctor had to reorder them about six weeks after delivery. This syndrome is diagnosed after you have two (6-8 weeks apart) positive elevated antibodies (for me...IGM). This means I'm at risk for blood clots and deep vein thrombosis. This is a rare syndrome, which is why it's not part of the required testing at the beginning of a pregnancy. However, had we not have had this test, there would be no warning signs of a blood clot occurring and the fatality rate is really high for untreated pregnant woman. But again, I stress that this is very rare. Every test performed on Connor provided no additional information but for me, I had a little comfort hearing a doctor say my son was perfect...just small. My husband and I wanted every test done as possible and will be going down a very medical route this time as well. This doesn't provide me any guarantees but for me it does provide additional comfort and hope. We still don't know if this syndrome is what caused Connor's death but finding out I had this was important for this pregnancy. My son died much earlier in the pregnancy than your daughter did, which made my desire to find out what happened more as I didn't believe that it was related to the cord, etc. I believe that SweetTeach started a thread to discuss whether people stayed with midwives or switched...I believe the gist is that you have to do what will ultimately make you more comfortable with your next pregnancy. There are so many options these days. I had a conversation with my doctor and my new MFM doctor (specialist) in regards to how a subsequent pregnancy would be treated/monitored. I felt reassured when I heard how proactive they would be. Talk with your different options; see what makes you feel more confident...or really who will cater to your stress during another pregnancy.

I'm in my fifth week and the thoughts that have already been going through my mind are insane. Consider this post the confessions of my inner mind that I'm amazed I could feel this way already...

- I still have angry feelings towards pregnant women. Can you believe this! Either I look at a woman and think "How nice it must be for you to believe everything is going to just be fine and not have any stress" or "You're going to have your baby any day now and I have the longest, most stressful path to go down". Someone mentioned to me to think about them as they may have had a loss, sometimes this helps but most of the time I just find myself not believing this and ending up envious regardless. I thought being pregnant myself that this would go away but not a chance. Someone put it best and said "each day I wake up and think is this the day my heart will be broken?" instead of some joyful pregnancy thought.

- I get angry with myself for not enjoying Connor's pregnancy even more than I did because it was the last pregnancy filled with only joy. I have done a pretty good job at keeping my stress level down and not fretting too much (only looking a couple weeks ahead) but it's such a completely different experience. I find myself occasionally wishing that Connor would have made it a few more weeks...so that I could have experienced weeks beyond 28 in a joyful state. I will now (notice I'm expecting this pregnancy to get to this stage) only experience this stage of pregnancy in stress with bits of joy.

- I'm still trying desperately to not blame my body for Connor's loss. After hearing that I have this syndrome, it's so difficult. The more I think about this the more I get concerned that my body will do the same thing to this baby. I shouldn't do this as we are not sure that this is what caused Connor's death but there's this sick feeling of wanting to blame my body. However, not wanting to blame my body because that would mean that this baby could die also. Such a weird feeling to be going back and forth about wanting to blame yourself even when knowing this is not productive at all.

- I should feel very thankful that we can conceive easily but most of the time, this brings me such little comfort. I feel so guilty about this. I can't imagine how much more difficult this process would be if it took us 6+ months to conceive. I know this yet I'm still not constantly thankful. I still get the feeling that it's not enough...I want a baby to raise. This makes me feel like I'm not taking the lessons from Connor to heart enough. Some families never get to experience that positive HPT...we at least have hope for a positive outcome. Don't get me wrong, I am thankful...I just don't think I'm as thankful as I should be.

- I still have intense desires to put other people in their places. For example, a friend and I went for our monthly pedicures and of course a 36 week pregnant woman came for a pedicure. I felt trapped...I couldn't go anywhere and I knew that the conversation was going to go somewhere that I didn't want. My friend immediately picked up on this but there is so little that can be done. After about an hour (very good pedicures), I couldn't handle it anymore. I started shaking and tears were rolling down my face as I listened to her make comments such as "I can't stand being pregnant anymore, I wish this would just be done. I hate that I can't sleep. I'm not really looking forward to the first few days of no sleep due to a newborn". I turned to my friend and said "I'm very close to asking her to change the subject" of course my friend was sympathetic but she viewed it from the perspective that to them this was an innocent conversation. I came home and told my husband and his response was why I didn’t tell her to shut up. I hate that even though I know that this is normal conversation for everyone else, I still have a strong desire to make them feel as uncomfortable as they are accidentally making me feel. I wanted so badly to say "excuse me, would you mind terribly not discussing these topics as my son was a stillborn just a few months ago". Is that really so wrong? Yeah, I realize that I would make her feel like crap but I bet she would think twice about openly saying some of that stuff again in front of strangers.

- As much as I haven't had a very high stress level, I'm still thinking about things in such a matter-of-fact way. Things I shouldn't be thinking about and especially now. For example, I've decided that at my 20 week mile marker, I want to go buy a white preemie outfit...just in case. I also want to pack a bag at that stage...just in case. I'm not really thinking about decisions that normal pregnant women think of such as when to have a shower...I'm thinking about being prepared for a hospital quick admittance for a possible loss. THIS SUCKS!

I guess this is enough confessions for now but you'll likely see more of these.

Question of the day: Am I the only person with these types of thoughts going through my head?

[sleet76]

Wilkers8, I haven't posted in your threads before, but I have been reading and learning from them. I wanted to thank you for sharing your family's story; I will always remember you and Connor. Please know that your experiences resonate deeply within many who read your journals, and the thoughtful, loving replies from the other women here are wonderful.

I was so very excited to see that you are pregnant! I don't know if I have ever wanted someone to have success in getting pregnant so much--especially someone I have never met. (good luck to all you other mamas who are trying, too!) You have really shared so much of yourself through this board--I wish I was able to do the same for you.

I have not experienced a loss like yours, or like many of those written about here, but I did have an early miscarriage in January. We are now trying to become pregnant again--I am hoping I will be able to join you in pregnancy soon. I don't have much to offer in reassurance about your pregnancy--I think I will be nervous about my next pregnancy when it happens, so I can only imagine the scale of your feelings and emotions. Regardless, I will keep you and both of your little ones in my thoughts and prayers, and pray that this pregnancy is smooth sailing with a happy ending.

[ninafel]

How wonderful that you are pregnant again! Congratulations to you and your family.

After two miscarriages, I found out that I have Factor V Leiden (hetero), which is also a blood clotting disorder and was the likely cause of my miscarriages. I was pregnant a third time and lost that pregnancy very early--testing revealed that it was essentially a blighted ovum and was a random problem having nothing to do with FVL (life can be incredibly unfair!!).

I totally understand your feelings unpon discovering that you have this problem with your body. I realised recently that a big struggle for me this past year was a sense of having lost my health and coming to terms with my physiological imperfection--I've always been healthy and felt very regular and strong and in touch reproductively speaking.

Mostly, I am emailing to make you aware of a great discussion board for women with FVL and other clotting disorders who are either pregnant or trying to get pregnant. Most of the women have had multiple miscarriages (pre-diagnosis), several of them have had stillbirths (again, pre-diagnosis) and there are many, many women who are having healthy pregnancies and healthy babies. It is a wonderfully supportive environment and there is a lot of very good information in files on the board.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FVL-PG/

It is very important to be well-informed so that you can advocate for yourself. Many doctors (even high risk specialists) do not know all there is to know about the various clotting disorders that are out there and often don't know of all treatments available (many discoveries are now and treatment information is being updated all the time). The women on the board are very knowledgeable and experienced and have been wonderful to me and to others on the board as they discover their predisposition to clotting and figure out how to handle it.

Take good care of yourself and enjoy this new pregnancy!! You'll be in my thoughts.

Ninafel

3 miscarriages in 2003
FVL hetero (taking baby aspirin and lovenox when pregnant)
currently ttc, cd 7

[Stephanie29]

Congrats on your sub preg. I am Stephanie, and I am pg again after 2 losses.
We lost our 2nd baby, Amanda Joy, at 31 weeks gestation, she was stillborn, due to a 2 vessel cord. Our 3rd baby also, sadly, was miscarried at 7 weeks gestation. I am currently 17 weeks along, and pretty scared. But hopeful, too!
I hope you and I both, can have healthy living babies this time around!
in response to your Question of the day: Did you tell people right away? Yes, since I miscarried at 7 weeks before, and I hadn't told anyone yet, I basicly suffered that loss all alone. This time, I figured that I needed support if I should lose this baby as well.
If so, who did you tell? my husband was the first, then my friends that I am real close to, then the next week, my mom and sister came to visit and I told them. I had told my dad on the phone already. DH's family we told as well.
What were some of the responses? Everyone was very glad for us. My sister was the most excited, and still is.
Hope all goes well for you!
HUGS!
Stephanie

[iris0110]

Wilkers: I just want you to know that I am going to laugh when you have twins and are up to your elbows in diapers. :LOL But seriously I really feel like this is your time and I have been thinking about you and Connor alot lately. I know you must be feeling a whole host of different strange emotions, heck I am and I am still just at the TTCing phase. I am trying to just take each day as it comes, and convince myself that I won't be devestated if I don't get that positive result this month. i don't think it is at all strange that you have had thoughts about packing your bags, or preparing premie outfits for just in case. I have knitted several buntings to donate to the hospital, but I think I may keep one, for just in case. I think the old saying is "once bitten twice shy" and we have suffered a loss and can't help but plan for the what ifs. While it isn't strange, it does make things more stressful for us. And I like you still am tempted to lash out at strangers when they complain about pregnancy symptoms. In fact sometimes I tell my Dh how I feel about their comments in a voice that I am sure carries enough for them to overhear. :eyesroll I know I should be more understanding, but what can I say, I'm not always nice.

I still have a week to go before I will know if I am pregnant. Last night I dreamt that I was in labor. I don't know if that is a sign or not. I have also been getting up several times at night to pee. I am so hoping that I will be joining you this month. I never thought that it might take this long for me to concieve. It has always been so easy for me in the past, but I want you to know that I will be here to support you, whether I concieve this month or not. :hug

[SweetTeach]

The longer we wait, the more likely I will be forced into a c-section.

Ohh, this hit me in a weird place Wilkers. Please don't feel like you should be forced into anything you don't want or feel comfortable with. Ultimately you are the one responsible for your child and if you allow anyone to force you into something you don't feel comfortable with, can you imagine how you'd feel if something went wrong as a result? You are co-pilots girl-they have medical training, you have MOTHER WIT-which is, in my opinion, equally valid! Enough of that (telling myself).

If you have TWINS, I will just jump through the screen to give you a hug!
I'm around a LOT of twins (my neighborhood has an extremely high % of twins) so I am always ducking double strollers and what not. I have also helped out friends with twins, so I can give you some "insider tips" if need be. :thumb

I still have angry feelings towards pregnant women.
I have a feeling I will feel exactly the same way! I'm glad you shared this though, so I'll know that I'm not alone in feeling this way.

As far as being thankful about conceiving quickly, don't you think you can allow yourself to be relieved that you got pg quickly and leave it at that? Don't try and hold yourself up to an unreasonable standard. Thank G-d you conceived quickly! You have enough to be upset and angry about in regards to losing Connor and having APS, so take heart in the gifts that you do have, but don't try to be a saint. I don't mean to sound preachy, I'm just hearing you and feeling like you need to express your feelings and then have someone (us) tell you "You're fine!"

So, what are your pg symptoms like so far? Are you planning to join the March due dates club over on the pg boards?

[wilkers8]

sleet76...it's such a wonderful feeling every time I hear how much this story has impacted another person. I'm so sorry for your loss in January. Thank you so much for the well wishes. Good luck on ttc. It is strange how we can wish for something so much for people we never met just because they understand the intense grief we are dealing with.

ninafel...I'm so sorry for your losses. I completely understand how difficult it is to come to terms with knowing your body's imperfection. It suddenly makes all that fussing about weight, etc seem so ridiculous. Thank you for the additional information and best of luck with ttc.

Stephanie29...I'm so sorry for your losses as well. In addition, congrats on your pregnancy! I ditto your wish for our babies this time around. I've often thought about what would happen if I did miscarry...what support I would receive...would I tell people after the loss. I guess that's what I've been going off of right now; if I would likely tell them after the loss for support then I probably should tell them. I just don't want to cause other people any more stress in their lives either.

iris0110...I like summing it up to "I'm not always nice". I think I could be ok with that. What I may be not nice about has changed but I'm still allowed to not be nice occasionally. Those were some of the same signs I had...so my fingers and toes are crossed!!!!!

SweetTeach...Maybe I used bad wording. I am actually ok with the idea of a c-section and was more concerned with not causing an emergency situation. I have complete confidence in my doctor working with me and making sure that everyone is satisfied. I don't have much desire to join any expecting boards as I am afraid of either offending someone or being offended. I'm having a hard time even reading the newly pregnant information as I feel it just doesn't serve much of a purpose. I know that's not really true but I don't really care the weight distribution anymore...I care whether this baby is going to stay with us.

It's been almost four months of trying to handle the grief of Connor's death. This new baby has helped because anytime I feel like completely breaking down from heartbreak, I remember that there's a new baby, who needs me to be strong and fight. So instead of staying in bed, I get up to face the day. However, then something happens that just makes me wonder if staying in the house 24 X 7 is really such a bad thing. I was in the grocery store and I saw this mom with her baby. I realized that I didn't have any clue as to how old this baby was as I don't have any experience with watching a baby grow day to day. I wanted to know if that was what Connor would have been like at four months and I stared and stared but nothing. I hate that I have no visual image on what my little boy would have looked like as he grew up. I hate that I don't know what he would have looked like at four months.

Physically, I am feeling pretty good. I'm not having any bad pregnancy symptoms. No morning sickness, no nausea, no breast soreness...only peeing quite often and sleepy. This doesn't really surprise me as this is exactly how it was with Connor. Until I actually felt him move, I didn't even feel pregnant most of the time. How sick is this...I was hoping for morning sickness...I was afraid of not feeling pregnant every day this time around. So I keep taking HPTs, just to see that second line...see that my baby is still with me. For Connor, I was glad that I had an easy first trimester. I felt very lucky but based on knowing the outcome of that pregnancy; I don't feel very lucky at all. In fact, I find it rather annoying. That my body seems to handle pregnancy so well but the worst possible thing happened. This just leaves me so confused.

When my friend was pregnant, she used to say that she could feel different things very early on in her pregnancy. I thought she was nuts considering I was at the same stage and was feeling nothing. However, this time around, I'm so in tune to my midsection. As much as this is driving me a little nuts right now (as I keep thinking...oh chit, was that a cramp...no), I am hoping this means that I will feel my baby very early. I felt Connor during my 18th week (probably felt him sooner but I had no idea what I was feeling). I'm so excited at the thought that women tend to feel the baby move about four weeks earlier in a second pregnancy. Listen to me...I'm already getting ahead of myself again. First, let's just make sure there is a baby in there...then the heartbeat...then movement!

Want to hear something really funny...I have such conflicting feelings towards my clothes. I fit into a majority of my pre-pregnancy clothes (except jeans) but I don't look great in them as I could still lose another 10 pounds and build up some more muscle tone. However, if I wore maternity clothes, people would ask if I was pregnant and I don't know if I want to go there yet. I can't imagine that I would be able to hold out until Sept (when I hit 12 weeks) without wearing maternity clothes (I couldn't fit into my pants by my 11th week and had not gained any weight. I was showing by my 14th week). So then I think "well, if I wear them now and just tell people I can't fit into my old clothes still, no one would ask" versus suddenly starting to wear my maternity clothes as I was showing. Another problem is until I start to show, maternity shirts just look really stupid on. I tried this top on the other day but I ended up being depressed. Even though I knew I would be showing in a couple of months, I hated that I'm not already showing. I guess a part of me still wanted to believe that I would somehow start wearing the clothes at the stage I was at with Connor...how stupid. Who knew clothes would be such an issue!

Question of the day: To wear or not wear maternity clothes this early?

[SweetTeach]

Wilkers, I understand where you're coming from.

Your posts always seem to make me smile! The maternity clothes conundrum...I'd say wear whatever's comfortable, be they maternity or not.

What a great problem to have to contemplate, huh?
:D

[iris0110]

To wear maternity clothes or not. Hmm that is a problem. Well what about some of the low rise maternity pants, and normal shirts. Or do you have a Target near you? They sell Liz Lange maternity clothes and they don't look like maternity. I had the greatest pair of pants from there. They had elastic in the back and two buttons on the side, so you buttoned them tighter while you were in your early months, and just a little uncomfortable in pre-pregnancy clothes, and then you moved them to the looser buttons when you were a little bit bigger. I wore those for the longest time, I was just out growing them in my pregnancy with Arawyn when I lost her. The worst part is I would probably still be wearing them now if they hadn't finally gotten holes in the knees. They were really comfy, and I thought they made my butt look good :D . I do fit in my pre-Arawyn clothes, though some not as well as others, but I don't even come close to my pre-Kearnan clothes. I finally gave up and bought some comfortable clothes that fit me now. They are the right size so I should be able to make a few months into my next pregnancy before moving back to maternity. That is if I can get pregnant before it starts to get cold.

Well I am making dinner so I better get going. I am glad to hear that you are still doing well. Remember that I am here if you need me. And just remember "You will be fine and you will have this baby."

[wilkers8]

SweetTeach...This is definitely a better issue to have :)

iris0110...Thanks for the tip.

My posts have been so large lately. The thoughts are pouring out of me again just like they were shortly after losing Connor. Some days I feel so overwhelmed with everything going through my mind. I'm surprised but regardless of all of these thoughts...my stress level seems to be decent. Maybe it's because I've been unloading so much in here. I'm so thankful that everyone is ok with me pretty much using this as a journal. I have a feeling that this thread is going to be a long one :)

I find that I still want to avoid any type of celebration events. The idea of having to deal with a number of people all at the same time, well, just freaks me out. I know people are talking about me. I know people are saying things like "I don't think I could have ever done that"..."I feel so sorry for them"..."they seem to be doing well". I know it's not really judgments but I have a hard time not feeling that way. I guess it's really a no win situation in that if they didn't have compassion, I would be annoyed also. I think I'm just sensitive to the feeling of pity or ...I was about to say treating me like I have some disease but that's accurate now. I am afraid of walking into a room and seeing someone pointing at me and knowing they were just talking about my awful life. Ok, so maybe I'm being a little dramatic now but I'm still afraid. I never had problems with social events before, in fact, I'm a very outgoing person. Well, I used to be a very outgoing person. So far we haven't been invited to many things as most people assume we don't want to go, which is perfectly fine with me. However, this will eventually change and we'll have to start watching everyone coo over someone else's baby. I wonder if social events will ever be the same for me.

My mother-in-law is coming for a visit this month. I would like to have my mom come in and tell both moms in person together but I wouldn't even be seven weeks by the time she left. I am afraid of telling them this early. However, I don't know how to hide it while she would be here for six days. My mom would give me the same advice/support she did for Connor's pregnancy "make sure you eat"...really, I didn't know that. My mom can be so funny at times. I guess we'll have to make the call on how we feel at that time and how we think they can handle the news.

I also haven't told work yet that I'm pregnant. With Connor, I told my boss right away (I was just too excited to hold it in). This time, I'm really trying to wait until after this first appt. Unless, they want to send me somewhere in which case, I will have to say no. I am going to refuse any travel during my entire pregnancy this time (for Connor, I only refused travel during my third trimester). I know that they will be very supportive so I wonder why I wouldn’t tell them now. Oh, I just hate that this is so complicated now.

Speaking of travel...with Connor, I didn't have any fear about traveling and did so up to the last weekend going into my third trimester. This time around, I am absolutely terrified of it. I tried to figure out if it will be possible for us to not travel anywhere for the rest of the year and into the next year. With work, I can refuse and they won't have a problem with this. With family, all of my husband's family lives out of state and that would be a rather long time to not go there. The last time we were there was in Feb for my father-in-law's funeral. My husband has been back since but I haven't, which means most people have not seen us since losing Connor. We typically go there at least once a year if not twice a year. I am pretty sure they would all understand but I personally don't like the idea of not going there until at least Easter of next year. Maybe this is a good excuse to make them all come here :) All of my family lives here so that's no problem. We have a few friends in Chicago that we would like to see but again I think they would understand why we are not willing to travel. We haven't taken a vacation in a very long time but this can just be something we look forward to as another goal. The only problem I do have is one of my friends that lives out of state is also pregnant. I haven't been able to talk to her much about her pregnancy at all still. Since her family lives here, I would assume that she will come back for at least her baby shower. The only problem is at the mere mention of the word baby shower, my insides start to turn. Again, getting ahead of myself. So with her likely coming back to this state, I should be able to see her. So after this long winded paragraph, I guess not traveling for a while is doable.

Question of the day: Anyone else have a heightened concern over traveling?

[AP Momma]

Wilkers -

I totally understand thinking that everyone is talking about you. They are.

I made an appt with our accountant in March and she tells me she's sorry for our loss and wants to warn me that she's 7 months pregnant. I am thankful that she warned me because a hugely pg Momma walk into my house just 3 months after losing our son would have suprised and probably upset me. But on the other hand I just kept thinking WTF! How the hell did my account find out about our recent loss? We live in a good sized city; does everyone know? Was there an anouncement or something?

We are now "that" couple. The couple people talk about when we leave the room to tell our story. Oh poor them losing both of their sons. It frustrated me that people get that look on thier face but at the very least it keeps the stupid comments down. If it makes people more sensitive to our losses than I guess it's not all bad.

I had a good experience recently that I'll share.

I was walking out of the grocery store and bumped into my cousin. We have told immediate family and a few friends about the baby. I figure the word will spread on its own or when they see me.

She asked if this was #4. Not knowing if she realized we lost Matt in January I say "We have the 2 girls at home" so she says again so this is #4 and I reply that we actually lost Timmy between the girls. She then corrects herself and says "So this is #5". I was so happy that someone was counting my boys. It really made my day, week, month. I don't see my cousin all that much. We come from a huge family and there are 50+ of us cousins between both sides. It was just a little thing but it really made a huge difference to me.

As for traveling. I would travel during your stressful months. I have a camping trip planned for my 17th week and we're going away for the weekend to a B&B during my 21st week. My plan is to stay as busy as possible so I'm not sitting around the house waiting for the next drop of blood to hit my panty. If I can manage to get past the second trimester then I will start to feel better about having a viable pregnancy. I want to stay distracted as much as possible. Just my .02

Are they going to do an amnio or any tests to determine or rule out if the baby has the clotting issues?

Did I mention no more spotting! Woohoo!

Kris

Just one more thing, its a request. If you have any positive vibes to send my way I'd appreciate it. I go for my second Parvo draw this afternoon. I am not immune to 5th disease and was exposed 3 times during my 10th -12th weeks. The first draw I hadn't contracted the virus but I was then exposed 2 more times. Fingers crossed it's negative.

[iris0110]

Wilkers I hear you about people talking. Dh let slip to his parents that we were ttcing and now I can just imagine his mom calling everyone she knows to tell them. The she will go to church and announce it there, I can just imagine the conversation: MIL "Yes my youngest son and his wife are TTCing." friend "You mean the ones whose baby died?" MIL "Yes, thats right their daughter died in Dec." friend "Oh, thats so sad. Hopefully they will be able to forget it when they get pregnant again."

It drives me nuts. I hate to share anything with them, because she always does this. My FIL doesn't, but then he really doesn't talk to any one but his kids so he doesn't have anyone to blab to. It makes me nervous about telling them when we do get pregnant though. I am nervous about sharing any way, but I know she will tell eveyone. And then if something happens it will just be that many more people to deal with. But I should think positive, "I will get pregnant this month and I will have a healthy pregnancy." There that helped some.

I don't know about traveling. I would like to go to PA with my mother in October to see my Grandmother. Her health is declining, and I really can't put it off. Besides I love seeing the rest of my family, and letting Ds meet all of his more distant relatives. We really have a blast there and I would hate to miss it. We are also planning a weekend trip to Galveston, but that is really only a 5 hour drive away. I didn't travel much during either of my last two pregnancies. I went to galveston when I was 2 months pregnant with Arawyn, and it was really fun, plus I got to tell my uncle in person that we were expecting. I am a little nervous, like what if something happens while I am away from home. But I learned when I lost Arawyn that being at home and going to the hospital I had planned on delivering at didn't necesarrily gaurantee a good outcome, or good care. I was really disapointed in the midwife on duty that night, but I have talked about that enough in the past. I guess if you don't want to travel, then there isn't any reason you should. However if you decide to travel, you could put your mind at ease by making sure you are prepared before you go. You could get info about the hospitals near where you are going, and let your Dr know about your plans. He/she may want you to take special precausions, or take medical records with you. I know alot of couples like to have a romantic getaway before the baby comes, kind of a last hoorah. DH and I are going to try to get away for the weekend (Dh is super stressed right now at work) but I think we will just stay at a nice hotel in town for a weekend so not really any traveling there.

Wow that was a really long reply. I hope you can wade through it all. Time seems to be taking forever to pass for me. I just want it to hurry up so I can find out if I am pregnant.

[wilkers8]

AP_Momma...I like how you put it: We're "that" couple. I hope this keeps the comments to a minimum but I hate being "that" couple. I love your cousin; I hope that people don't consider this baby to ever be my eldest. A huge smile broke out on my face just reading that story. As for traveling, I didn't even think about trying to stay busy...I might be eating my words about not wanting to travel. On tests for this baby, I don't think we'll do an amino as I've been told APS is not heredity nor life threatening. The concern is more that my blood will clot in the placenta. So tests will be done on me (don't know what or when...yet). Also, sending positive vibes everyday. I'm so glad the spotting stopped!

iris0110...Oh, I can so picture those comments. The talks I imagine in my head that some of these people are saying drives me insane. You would think that this wouldn't bother me so much but I just don't want people's pity. My husband and I have also talked about dealing with people if we had another loss. I was very happy to hear his response "it's not like I'm not going to tell people if we had another loss, so I don't see the harm in telling people", I immediately replied "yeah, but I don't want pity parties" which he quickly responded with some very direct comments regarding what people can do with their pity. I just absolutely love my husband. Someone needs to invent a way to make time go quicker :)

Ok, so there are a number of aspects dealing with relationships that I'm hoping if I write it down, well...things will start to make sense and the pain will subside.

There is something that I should explain before I go into the details as this is the reason this topic brings so much pain. Due to my rough family life, for as long as I can remember, my relationships have meant the world to me. I took great pride in always trying to be a good friend...I tried to always listen...I tried to always support...I tried to always remember key events/dates...I tried to always celebrate and share their moments. So as I dealt this year with the complete lack of desire to support any of them or be interested in their lives, I had a very guilty complex about this. However, no matter how guilty I was feeling, I couldn't bring myself to care. As I was explaining this to a couple of my friends, some of them said very similar things to me...As much as I don't want to believe it, there will come a day when I will need you as much as you need me and I know that you will be that friend, who I can completely count on. You don't need to be that friend to me now but let me be that friend to you. To hear something like this not just from one of my friends but a couple of them, well, it gave me confidence that our relationships were going to be just fine and endure my selfish time.

So on the topic...to start off with the positives, a few of my relationships have actually improved. Although our conversations may be on topics that are so depressing, the bond that I feel as been strengthened with them. I'm actually surprised by this as I didn't think I could get any closer to my husband or my friend of 17 years. The problem is this has only really occurred with a few of my relationships.

I have managed to make a few new relationships due to this loss and I am grateful for them. I wasn't at first as I didn't want to acknowledge that I had something in common being that it was so tragic. However, now that common support and understanding has been such a huge part of my grief process.

Then there are the relationships that haven't really strengthened but haven't weakened either. This does apply to a handful of people as we have pretty much maintained the level of communication that we had before anything happened yet they are aware and sensitive to my emotions and needs. Sometimes, I am a little hurt by moments they forget or if they don't call as frequently but overall I'm thankful for their support and know that it's not intentional. Unfortunately, this group only applies to a handful of people.

Then next set of relationships are the ones that I was never very close to but have been so rude and horrible regarding their reactions that I can't help but want to remove myself completely from their presence. These people don't really bother me as much as this only confirmed why I didn't have a close relationship with them in the first place. There are just too many people in this group to attempt to even count.

The worst group...the group of people that I can't seem to let go of or forgive...are the ones that I thought would be there for me but haven't been. Some were there only initially...some didn't keep their promises...some have made me feel guilty...some have made me feel insane...some have made me feel like I'm being dramatic...some have ignored me completely...some have ignored Connor completely...some have made hurtful statements...some have expected me to move on by now...some have not been able to understand why I can't share in their lives right now...some have not accepted the new woman I am...some have not accepted or acknowledged me as a mom...some have not been willing to deal with their own uncomfortablility to support me...this list could just go on and on. I completely acknowledge that some of the people in this group don't even realize that they have hurt me. I completely acknowledge that some of the people in this group may be trying their best. I completely acknowledge that some of the people in this group don't even realize they are in this group. However, regardless of knowing this, I can't help but me angry. I have hope that some of the people in this group will turn around and we'll be able to continue our relationship. However, we all know how much I believe in hope nowadays.

I guess I knew that as I grew older, the significant relationships in my life would become smaller. I just thought it would be later when my life was too busy with children to devote attention to these relationships.

Question of the day: Is it me? Am I making this more complicated with other people or do any of you experience such strain?

[iris0110]

wilkers: I agree that some one should invent a way to make time go faster. I won't know until Friday if I am pregnant and I really can't wait that long. Do you think if I tested today I would get an acurrate response?

I don't think you are making these relationships more difficult. Relationships are difficult, and after a loss like we have suffered they become even more confused. Every change in your life changes your relationships with the people around you, and you have gone through a significant life altering experience. It is not suprising that some people are unable to handle the new you. Maybe they depended on you to be the strong one, and they are having difficulty handling you going through such a vulnerable time. Or maybe they are just shallow people and are unable to handle the depth of your experience. I don't really know. But I want you to know that it isn't any failing on your part that is causing any of this.

Wishing you the strength to continue with relationships that are healing and to cut out of your life the relationships that are draining you.

[gossamer]

Question of the day: Is it me? Am I making this more complicated with other people or do any of you experience such strain?

Dear Wilkers,
You are not making this more complicated. There are just some people out there who cannot handle tragedy or grief. The one thing I have heard from all of the women who have gone through this is that I will find friends where I never knew I had them and lose friends I thought I would have forever. THis has been very true. There are some friends with whom our relationship has not changed much. They were there for me then and they are there for me now. There are some friends that I thought we were just acquaintances, or didn't know very well, or maybe didn't even like that much, who have just come through with flying colors and have become very dear to me. Then I have had some friends and even family who I thought would be my strongest rock, that fled. They have not been able to deal with the tragedy of what happened and I guess, they just want me to get "back to normal". And almost all of the people in each of these groups has been a surprise in one way or another. I pray for you to find peace among your relationships.
Gossamer


P.S. YAY!!! For being pregnant. :)

[HaveWool~Will Felt]

HI ALL!!! I am home from vacation.....what did I miss???? :love

Just got caught up on all my reading of the posts for the last 8 days.
WOW...the things I can miss out on if I ever DARE go on vacation again... :LOL

Wilkers,
So glad to hear that you are feeling well...also the maternity clothes issue. I understand totally...with each child I showed earlier and earlier...and I was bigger and bigger... :LOL
It is a good thing...at least I think so.

How is dh with everything? How is he feeling about the new baby? I sure think about Connor, you and dh a lot...and now a NEW BABY!!! I am so excited for you.

Iris01100,
TAKE A DAMN TEST....I hardly can wait.... :love
I have all my toes and fingers crossed for you.

Gossamer, SweetTeach...we are all next....

Love to you all!!!! :grouphug

[wilkers8]

iris0110...Is it Friday yet? That's probably not helping you but I think I'm as anxious as you are! I am typically the strong one, maybe, part of it is me dealing with not being in that role.

gossamer...I think you're completely right, all of the people in each of these groups have been a surprise in one way or another.

jackieg213...I hope your vacation was wonderful. As each week goes by, I do get more excited with the idea that I'll be showing much earlier. I think if this upcoming appt goes well, then I will definitely just start wearing the maternity clothes.

How does my husband feel? Most of the time neither of us feel like I'm pregnant (no pain in the butt symptoms). He absolutely loves the idea that I might be carrying twins (what he hoped for with Connor's pregnancy) and refuses to not kiss my stomach twice...one for each baby. I think I want the time where the baby starts moving to get here so quickly, not so much for when I can feel the baby but for Pete to feel the baby. I want for him to feel connected and it's so difficult now. He's the one that came up with the idea of naming this baby as soon as possible, just to help make sure we feel connected. He continues to be so supportive of me and I can't thank him enough.

So what are my symptoms? I use the bathroom often. My dreams have returned...I was hoping I would have dreams of Connor but not yet. My breasts feel full but not sore. My nose is running but I'm not sick. That's all. I imagine the heartburn will set in soon (this was the only bad symptom I had with Connor's pregnancy) but nothing yet. This made me feel so happy during Connor's pregnancy but with this pregnancy, it only makes me anxious. I'll occasionally take another HPT just so I can see that second line. My husband thinks I'm nuts.

Speaking of my husband thinking I'm nuts, he also thinks this way about the speed as to which I'm reading books lately. I'm going through about a book every two days. I'm not sure if it's because it allows me to sink into another world or if it gives me a distraction to my loneliness. Probably both and more reasons I'm not even thinking about. So the money I'm now saving on ovulation predicator kits, well I've transferred that over to the bookstore :)

Well, I did my phone interview with the nurse this week to discuss my medical background. As I talked, I kept feeling the odds stacking against me, which is stupid since most of the things I mentioned have no impact on a pregnancy but I can't help but feel like they do. I also got back my last HCG level test - 4270 at 5 weeks and 1 day pregnant. I calculated from the last time I took this level and with it doubling every two days the level should have been around 3200. So I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for twins! Now I'm even more anxious then ever for Monday's appt. Mostly, I'm hoping that the high levels means that I'm not going to get bad news on Monday (blighted ovum or etopic pregnancy) but I don't think there's any truth to that.

Question of the day: Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

[iris0110]

You know wilkers I don't know if there is any truth to it or not. I have heard that high numbers can mean twins, but I don't know if that is true or not. I am so excited for your appt, I can't wait to hear the good news (see I am still thinking positive for you.) I also can't wait to test. I think I may tonight and just hope that it will be accurate. If I was on a 28 day cycle tommorow would be the start of my period, but since I have been on a 30 day I don't know if testing this soon will tell me anything.

Well as far as your symptoms go, they sound like the symptoms I had with Ds. A mom once told me that she could tell if she was having a boy because she didnt get morning sickness, and with girls she did, so maybe you are going to have a boy. This was definately true for me. I was never sick with Ds, but I was miserable with Arawyn for the first three months.

some parents come up with nicknames for their babies while they are pregnant, something to call them until they know the gender as a way of connecting. I called Ds monkey while I was pregnant with him, and I called Arawyn pumpkin. A friend called her son Sparky while she was pregnant with him, and it is still his nickname today.

My BIL called yesterday to chat. He says MIL called him while he was out of town on business to tell him we were TTCing. :eyesroll He said he told everyone in Boston for us. I can't even begin to imagine who all else she has told. :irked:

Well I better go. I promise I will let you all know as soon as I find out for sure if I am or not.

[AP Momma]

I'm feeling really positive today. No real reason. My toddler got me up at 4am and my eyes are burning. It's hot and humid here and the kiddos are going stir crazy sitting in the A/C house.

I feel emotionally terrific! It's been two weeks since my single day of spotting and I just feel much more connected to my little sprout. I have the AFP draw paperwork and my level 2 u/s scheduled. It's the flutters that hit me at night that are making me so happy. To have my baby connecting with me in that way is so great.

Just wanted to share some goos feelings with y'all.

Kris

[SweetTeach]

Hey W- I haven't replied to your thread in a while so I just wanted to say "Hey!" As far as your #'s, I checked a website for HCG levels and yours was within the normal range for 1 fetus, but they also said that you can determine #'s through a pattern of HCG levels checked over a bit of time, so you'll get your definitive answer soon enough at your next appt, right? :fingersx for you!

Shannon- any news yet???!!!! Make sure you use some early morning pee and get the first response early response test- if you haven't tested already! :love

APMom- glad things are going well for you :thumb

[wilkers8]

iris0110...The nickname is a good idea; we may have to think up a good name to use. I was so concerned about people finding out that we were trying to conceive, I didn't want to hear the comments. So if you get any things that tick you off, feel free to vent here!

AP_Momma...thank you for sharing good feelings!

SweetTeach...I'll get that definite answer on Monday. I guess this is one positive to high risk care...I don't have to wait until 20 weeks for my first ultrasound...to see this baby or babies :)

I realized today that I had stopped counting the weeks since Connor died. I was telling someone about this pregnancy and that I was in my sixth week and then in suddenly hit me...I didn't know how many weeks it had been since 3/17. A part of me was glad about this because I felt like it was a sign that I'm making progress in my grief, however, a bigger part of me was so incredibly sad that I stopped counting the weeks. I felt a little like I had dishonored Connor in some way. Then reality set back in and how could I really expect myself to count the weeks for the rest of my life.

We told both grandmas about the pregnancy this week. I would have preferred to wait until after our Monday appt but we had to take advantage of the fact that my husband's mom was coming in for a couple of days from out of state. I wanted to be able to tell her in person. I'm always so scared to tell people but I always feel better after getting to tell another person. I feel like this baby is getting recognized more and more.

I also made a decision that if our appt goes well on Monday, I want to go out and buy our first gift for this baby. At first I was a little worried about a jinx but now I'm worried that this baby is not being celebrated enough. When we tell someone we're pregnant, everyone's happy but the reactions are not the same. I expected this since my reaction is not the same and I don't have any bad feelings towards anything said, not said, done or not done. I just want to make sure there are things in this home that were bought specifically for this little baby. Originally, I thought I would do this much later but I fear if something went wrong, all I would have would be the positive HPT tests.

Question of the day: Does anyone else have conflicting feelings regarding a jinx but the need to celebrate?

[milk_maker]

tmi

[iris0110]

Wilkers: I am glad to hear that you have taken another step forward and told the Grandparents about your pregnancy. I still don't know what I will do when I finally get the positive test. I have been afraid to test this month. I don't know how I will feel looking at a negative test, or a positive one come to think of it. So I guess if my period doesn't start tommorow I will test and hope that I can handle the outcome.

So far we haven't had any annoying comments about TTCing. Of course we really only told MIL and that was on accident. Now the whole family knows, but of course they don't want to say anything to upset us. Sil gave me her maternity stuff, a couple of months ago. She pulled me aside and asked if we were going to try again and I said yes I thought we would pretty soon. She told me she had been wanting to ask if I wanted the things for awhile but hadn't wanted to upset me. So now I have everything I need for maternity clothes. She also said if I have a little girl I won't need any clothes for her. BIL did make a comment to Dh that while he is glad we will be trying to have another baby, he really didn't need to know that we were "doing it" all the time. :innocent Of course he was really making that comment about MIL as she did the same thing when he and his wife were trying 2 years ago. I am really worried about the comments we will get when we do get pregnant. But I am convincing myself that it will be worth it just to have the chance to have a baby.

I agree with Shyly, go out and buy something. I am the type of person who tends to over plan things. As soon as I find out I am pregnant, I figure out the things I need, and then plan for when we will buy them. For the first two months after we lost Arawyn I would remember something that we were supposed to be buying (bed rails so the kids don't fall out of bed, under bed storage boxes for clothes ect) and remind Dh to go get them. He would just look at me sadly and remind me that we didn't really need to go get those things. It was really hard. But planning and then shopping seem to help keep me sane when things are stressful, so if I am making lists here in a few moths and telling you all I need to go out and buy something you will know why. ;)

Ps. Please keep your fingers crossed that my period doesn't start tommorow. I really want to be pregnant this month.

[HaveWool~Will Felt]

Wilkers,
I can relate to the "I don't know exactly how many weeks it has been since my baby died"...I am so right there with you. And YES, I have sometimes felt like I have dishonored Gracie that way too...or about to receive the "BAD MOMMY" award...

I also agree with celebrating this baby as much as possible...JUST DO IT!!! You will feel better and more alive.

Shannon...I too understand the fear you are experiencing.

I could type on and on...I have to go today...1 mom is labor at 4 cm and one mom whose water broke and awaiting labor to begin shortly...busy night for me... :love

Thank you all for your honesty!!!

[iris0110]

Well my period started this morning. :crying I was really hoping I was this month. I dont' know if I should start another thread for this, but i figured I really just wanted to share it here with you ladies. I can't believe this is so hard. I have actually never tried to get pregnant before, it always just happened. This time when I want it to happen so badly, it just won't. :crying I don't know whether to keep trying next month or not. My last period before I got pregnant with Arawyn was July 19th. This is July 23rd, so if I got pregnant next month, all of my dates would be about four days off of all of my dates with Arawyn. I just don't know if I am up for that. But at the same time, I can't stand to wait any longer. The next five to seven days will be tourcher for me, and I want to start tying again as soon as possible. I have my yearly exam schedueled for Sept 9th I believe, and I want to be pregnant when I go. This is so much harder than I had anticipated. :crying

I'm sorry I hijacked the thread there, I promise I will try not to do it again. I guess I just needed to throw myself a pitty party for a moment.

[suebearsmom]

Prayers that the fear will be subdued and everything will be very different this time.Sorry Iris! Hugs,Catherine

[wilkers8]

iris0110....Hijack the thread anytime you feel like it! I'm so sorry, I'm crying as I type. I had the same thoughts going through my head about whether I would be comfortable with similar dates but I came to the conclusion that I wasn't going to be completely comfortable with any dates, so why rule out a cycle.

I was praying and hoping right along with you and I will continue to support and cross my fingers for the next try. I won't say anything like "well, the average person takes 3 months to get pregnant" as I know that this brings zero comfort. Instead, I'll acknowledge how horribly disappointing and fusterating ttc can be.

Oh and I enjoy pity parties so throw one whenever you dang well feel like it!

[taradt]

i haven't been around this board for quite awhile (i needed to focus on positive thoughts to get through the first weeks of pregnancy) and am sooo happy to see you pregnant again Wilkers :) :) :)

no woman should ever have to go through these fears when pregnant. with this pregnancy i have felt robbed of the innocent joy a woman *should* feel when they are pregnant. i have to conciously relax and just *be*.
i hope you are able to relax and enjoy your pregnancy, i think that your due date is a sign, my due date is 2 days before the date i birthed Keena and i am sure that was Keena's way of letting me know it would all be alright this time

anyways once again i am so happy to hear your news :)

tara

[wilkers8]

shyly...Congrats on your pregnancy as well! Thank you so much for your well wishes. I completely understand the conflicting feelings and I'm really starting to understand that these conflictions are probably only going to get worse as my pregnancy continues.

jackieg213...If I don't deserve the BAD MOMMY award then you certainly don't!!!!!

taradt...Congrats on your pregnancy as well. I completely understand the feeling of having to consciously relax and just *be*. Seems so easy for so many people but this is one of the most difficult things I've had to force myself to do.

The day finally arrived...my first doctor's appt was this morning. Originally, my husband wasn't going to go but since this was the first time we would get to see our baby, he wanted to be there. Yes, I said our baby and that's exactly what's growing inside of me with a very strong heartbeat. Only one baby but I wasn't disappointed knowing there wasn't twins, I was just so freakin happy to not have the doctor tell us "I'm sorry". The relief I have is just amazing. Although, on the way home, I started thinking about the next appointment already. I can't even seem to go an entire day without wanting to worry about the next milestone. As promised, we bought something right after the doctor's appt. I wanted to get something small as my baby is so tiny right now. So we got this cute little bathtub ducky. I felt such relief and joy to put this into the nursery, something other than a gift originally intended for Connor.

As for this new doctor...I felt very comfortable with this doctor and I don't think I'm going to have any problems with this practice in general. This was such a relief, I knew medically I would feel good but I wanted to make sure I felt like they would respect and help support me emotionally through this pregnancy and that's exactly what I felt like will happen. Whew! In addition, I found out that the antibody I tested positive for is highly unlikely to have caused Connor's death as this is not as aggressive type and doesn't cross the placenta...this means that I only have to continue to take aspirin and I don't need to take heparin shots!!!! I was willing to do it but I had no idea how I was going to handle sticking myself with a needle. This news was so wonderful to hear, more because it makes me feel like losing another baby is a little less likely. My doctor wanted a few more blood tests run (not sure for what) but I like that he wants to rule out a few more things that I wasn't tested for (didn't even think that was possible). What a wonderful first experience!!!!

So my next milestone is August 23rd. They will do another ultrasound to verify everything looks ok. This ultrasound was interesting. I only had one during my 20 weeks with Connor so to see how small my baby is during my 7th week was so unreal. Plus my doctor was able to tell me I had a tiny blood pocket so if I see a little spotting to not be surprised...this was so nice to hear because I'm sure I would have completely freaked out. In fact, everyone there was great. They brought me in early, everyone knew about my loss with Connor so I didn't have to hear those "is this your first pregnancy" questions.

I have to admit something...this morning has been wonderful and has helped to give me hope again. However, I can't help but worry that I'm going to jinx myself or be completely disappointed again. I hate that I'm afraid to be happy now.

Question of the day: Are any of you afraid to be happy?

[iris0110]

Wilkers I am so unbelievably happy for you. So your clotting factor probably didn't cause Connor's death and you don't need shots. That is super. :balloons And you got to see your baby. Did you get pictures to keep? If so I am sure we would all love to see them. I am just so excited that everything is looking so good for you. You realy deserve to have an easy and happy pregnancy this time around.

Thank you for being so supportive for me last week. I have to tell you realizing that my period had started was really rough. But I feel a bit better today. I have been trying to reassure myself that it does take about three months for the average woman to concieve, and that makes this my month right. :thumb But the truth is I really wanted to be pregnant last month. I have thought alot about it, and I will continue to try this month. It's almost like this is what Arawyn's spirit wants. I have always gotten pregnant before by suprise, I have never had to try for it. This time I have been tying unsuccessfully for two months. Maybe I was just trying in the wrong months, and Arawyn wanted me to get pregnant now. Well at least that is what I am going to tell myself to keep me going.


i think in a way I have always been afraid to be too happy. It seems like whenever I get really excited about something, something goes wrong. So I have been gaurding myself against getting too happy. I am trying to work on that, because this is not the example I want to set for my chidren. I hope that I will be able to enjoy my next pregnancy, but wait till the test turns positive and ask me again and I will let you know. You deserve to be happy now. I hate the way this loss steals the happiness out of pregnancy for us. It just doesn't seem fair. I am glad you bought something for your new baby. I am also glad you got to see your baby. I hope that can carry you through till your next appt.

Well I have to go, Ds is getting wiggly. Congratulations on a great appt. :balloons

[SweetTeach]

Congrats Wilkers! I'm so happy to hear that everything looks good and that you will have emotional support from your care providers, which we all know is so important! I'm also glad your dh got to go see your baby too! :thumb

I can imagine that I will be very afraid to be happy the next time I'm pregnant. For that matter I don't think that I will ever be able to NOT think about a child of mine dying, whether it's in or outside of my womb. I try to tell myself that nothing is promised...all I have is this moment, right now. We have no control over what will happen tomorrow, whether it be good or bad so I think on some level I will have to make a choice to either be happy with what I have or to live in fear of what I might not have. I know I'd like to choose the first, but I think it's going to be "easier" to fall into the latter. I guess this is part of our struggle. I remember that KateSt said something that really touched me where she said that she decided after her first miscarriage that if she purposely tried not to bond with her baby (second pg) that she would have thought that not bonding with the baby was the cause of her second miscarriage and so she felt that she owed it to her baby to be fully present and to love it to the fullest extent. (I'm paraphrasing here, so I hope I did her thoughts justice). Sadly, she did miscarry that 2nd baby, but she did not regret bonding with it. Anyways, maybe that will have some meaning for you too, in regards to letting yourself feel happy.

:love

Shannon- I'm hoping next month is your month!

[wilkers8]

iris0110...I did get a picture of my baby but he/she is rolled up and it just looks like a blob of darkness. However, it's the cutest little blob of darkness :) I am very excited that I will get pictures of this baby about every 3 weeks. I only wish I could be even more supportive of your ttc. My friend did say something to me that at the time I felt a little indifferent towards but now suddenly takes on a very strong meaning for me...there is a reason for when it happens. It took my friend over a year and half to get pregnant but she says this was so that our first born children would be close in age. Then when my due date was Connor's anniversary, I was able to see this as a sign...as the reason it didn't work before. I hope that when you are pregnant, the reason will shine through as to why it had to be that month that was successful.

SweetTeach...This entire post is dedicated to letting myself be happy. Letting myself release some of my fear and anger.

A new phase of anger/sadness has completely set in. It's been over four months since I lost Connor. Often, I try to ask myself how upset would I be if the situation were the other way around...if my friends had lost their baby and it always comes back to this...I wouldn't just feel sorry for them but I would feel a sense of loss, a loss of never seeing them grow up. Then I start getting angry/sad that I don't feel like most of my friends don't feel this way but if they do then they don't tell/show me that. These are the ladies that I typically turned to for support when I cried for hours. Now I completely feel like that friend who everyone has to build up the strength to talk to, maybe I should make it easier for them...which in turn, will make it easier for me.

SweetTeach mentioned in a different thread some points that completely hit me at home: I think the feeling sorry for me part just obscures everything else. When a friend hurts for me but also shows more...when they see the whole me at this point in time and doesn't allow my grief to be the only thing that defines me. When they are incredible listeners and are not afraid to ask me questions or have conversations with me about things that other people are afraid to do because they think it'll make it "worse". When they really cry WITH me and I think that makes the difference. This is what my husband and a very few of my friends provide for me on an almost daily basis and why I've become so dependent on them.

The more lonely I feel and the more hassle I feel to people, the more angry I start feeling again. There are people, who do occasionally call me, but this doesn't bother me as I've never had a close relationship with them and I'm just grateful for their call. Aside from that, the support I receive on this website has become so important. Don't take offense to this but it makes me angry as well...that strangers (ok, not so much strangers anymore) have been a better support for me than a majority of people in real life. I then completely start wondering what my life has been about all of these years.

I think I just need to come to terms that aside from a very few people, everyone else's lives have continued on almost as nothing has happened (aside from feeling sorry for me and my husband). I must have unrealistic expectations that my children would mean something to these people, that they would feel the grief of losing Connor. Obviously not to the level we do but feel a loss at some level. I think because my one friend does have this grief, I thought all of them would. I probably need to just let that go and appreciate this friend like crazy! I just hate that at first I had no doubt that my friends would never forget Connor, 3/17, 6/17, etc and now I'm not so sure. This is a very hard thing to accept and it just makes me want to start screening my phone calls and close myself off except to those few people.

I have started to take back control of this part of my life. I figured that the only way I'm going to get closure on this topic is by confronting people. For example, I received an email that mentioned nothing about Connor and only talked about their friend's engagement and request for destination wedding tips. I was so angry that here are these people that have not called or supported us at all for almost four months and they expect me to be happy for their friends. I wrote a pretty nasty response with a "what I wish I would have been giving the opportunity to reply with" listing thank you for the supports and being appreciative that they were considerate of my feelings regarding things. I felt so light after sending this email. I felt like a I was coming to terms and speaking my mind to people who have let me down. I did get responses that acknowledged they were not intending to be hurtful but could completely now understand why I was so hurt. The traditional "we didn't know what to say or do" excuse was given. However, they admitted what a lame excuse this was. There may be hope for them after all which makes me want to confront all of the others, who have let me down also. I think I will be writing some letters this week.

Question of the day: Am I missing any negatives on just confronting these people? I realize this may mean I will completely lose any relationship with some of the people that I confront, but if I'm confronting them...it's because they haven't been much of a part of my life now. So what's the difference?

[SweetTeach]

W- PREACH SISTA!!!
LOL, this is some tough shyt to go through, on so many levels. I am right *here* with you on the friend thing. I have decided to vent to the ones I can and let the rest go. Life will certainly go on. I am going to share with you a poem I wrote last night as a response to a friend who left the details of her birth on my answering machine last week. She said "I didn't want to do this on your answering machine but..." and proceeded to tell me her baby's name, weight, etc. I think it directly relates to what you spoke of.

Untitled


Don't leave me a message
on my answering machine
telling me about your
baby
who's in your arms, no doubt

Don't expect me to be supportive
and to listen with
interest
as you tell me your
birth story
filled with love and
wonder
and
joy

Don't ask me to
care about
the details
length, weight,
gender and
name,
temperament,
color of his eyes

Don't think you can
relate
call me a mother
as you do yourself

You cannot relate
cannot explicate
the way I
talk to my
baby
through hooded eyes
and
salty tears
holding him as if
a pillow could
truly substitute

Don't-You don't
Know me
no
You don't
Know
who I've come
to be

[gossamer]

Sweet Teach,
That is a very powerful poem and it really talks to me. Thank you so much for sharing.
Gossamer

[HaveWool~Will Felt]

WOW!!! Thank you ST for the incredible poem...

I think I am on the same ride as Wilkers & SweetTeach. So many "friends" have come and gone...and what remains are the people who know what it is to be beyond a friend, but my family.
My blood family are as supportive as they can be...which is great. Dh's family, they simply don't talk about it, meaning Gracie. And our "friends" that are left...some approach Gracie head on...others frickin' prance...make sense?
Well, the prancers...I really have nothing to do with them...I leave that up to dh. He is a bit more tolerant than I. In fact dh is much more less confrontational than I...he is a lot of things that I am not...which balance us out. Thank goodness... I am definitly more charismatic than he... :love

In regards to your poem ST...that is why I have caller id... :bag:

Love you all...

[painted horse]

Sweet Teach - What a poem!!!!!!! Wow! I think that spoke for alot of us here. Got anymore? :thumb

I think that the realization that "the world does not stop" and that life goes on is an incredibly difficult realization. Because isn't that on some level what we want? We want the world to stop and mourn with us - because as we were growing our precious babes WE were the World!!! Everything narrows onto you when you are pregant - everything shifts. The focus from family, from friends, even from strangers, is on "Gee, are you pregnant? How far along? Is this your first?....." ect. So when we lose that precious baby, we want validation that the world around us will also stop. I think this is perfectly normal. I think it is also perfectly reasonable to want our friends and family to validate what we have just been thru.......certainly being honest with our feelings helps, i.e. confronting those around you who were/have been less than supportive. As I said in another post - someone ought to teach a class.....!

Wilkers - you're fab! I'm sending you lots and lots of sticky baby thoughts!

Yay for you! (see what I meant about focus? ;) )

:D

Jen

[SweetTeach]

LOL, I'm sad that you understand where I'm coming from with that poem. Thank goodness for caller id- otherwise it would've been a different poem altogether.
Jen, yes I have lots of poems, but I will start a separate thread.

Wilkers, hope you are doing alright today.

ST

[wilkers8]

SweetTeach...Thank you for sharing your beautiful poem...it definitely hit the mark!

jackieg213...my last post and this post is finally bringing to a closure what the word "friend" means...who goes beyond a friend.

painted_horse...I guess I did want the world to stop and when it didn't, well, it hurt. By the way, I'm more than happy to volunteer my time as a guest speaker in a class!

Boy, this week has been filled with quite the emotions...

Well, I found the negative...that a response would be so insensitive and would instead attack me and my "problems". How do people not know that apologizing followed by either an insult, insensitive comment or to blame me is not an apology. To give you a brief but related background. I have a VERY bad relationship with my father, which has created a level of anger within me. In addition, I was treated growing up as the bad kid that would only work at McDonalds because I was way to outspoken and aggressive (which was a result of dealing with the pain). So to this day, I still harbor feelings regarding these two things. For the latter, it's mostly a feeling of wanting to teach people a lesson to not pre-judge and assume that people will turn out bad. I have found some ways to deal with this as I help with mentoring high school students. However, there is a part of me that wishes some of those administrators that made me feel so bad about myself, well, would apologize and recognize they were wrong. I know this is not going to happen and I am satisfied with my career without this recognition but it doesn't necessarily remove those hurt feelings. Very few people knew this was happening at the time (because I was ashamed) but I share it now, especially with the few people that are from my hometown. I guess this has come off as having a big ego or something instead of what I was trying to do and just work through something that was more painful than I realized at the time. As for my father, well, he continues to be emotionally abusive and my mother has remained with him. He has not acknowledged anything and I don't think he ever will...so I have little need to forgive or forget. So this response I received indicated that she is concerned with how angry I am and that I need to forgive and understand that people react differently. This hurt me so much more, in that I'm already upset with so many things but to think that people just see me as this angry person, when instead I was in need of a good rant to a "friend" and didn't ever expect it to be held against me. Then other people have issues with family and have been able to move on with it, well, good for them. I don't feel that need, especially since in most of their cases the parents are no longer together and I have a different situation to deal with. I don't feel like I'm an angry person. I feel like I'm more outspoken about things that anger me in order to release some of that anger and not continue to be hurt. Is that a bad thing? Am I a bad person? Watching my mother get walked all over as a child, made me very strong in never allowing people to hurt me...which is way I get so hurt/angry when it does happen. Receiving this response has now made it so that I'm thinking everyone thinks this about me...everyone thinks I'm just too angry of a person. But how can I not have that part to me...my father is a louse, people expected nothing of me and told me often and most of all...MY SON DIED.

What the response did do on a positive note was show me that I would have never received support from her regardless. She would have thrown herself a pity party due to money problems, etc. I'm not saying she doesn't have serious problems in her life but the bottom line is...she has her children, please don't bitch to me right now. I realize there will come a day when I return to being the person that people can call and complain about their lives, I'm just not that person right now. And I really don't know when that will return. For a few people, it's already starting to come back but that is mainly for people who have made me feel comfortable (this is why I know it will return) but it doesn't mean the anger in me will ever completely go away. I have learned to rant and release and continue on. I guess I just need to choose who I rant to better. Getting this response has stirred up the need to start being even more supportive of certain people in my life...I guess I have a new title that I don't want to be "that really angry woman, who is only focused on her pain"...I just don't know how to not be angry that Connor died.

I guess that one out of two outcomes from the people that I confronted being positive was worth it. I'm sorry that both didn't but at least I'm now at peace with not waiting for something that would never happen. I already feel less hurt and like my energy can be more devoted to my family and my real friends. I feel great that I was able to speak my mind, they may not have "got it" but I don't have regrets and can start to move on from it.

Question of the day: Am I really that much angrier than any grieving mother?

[iris0110]

Wilkers, the simple answer to your question is NO. You are not more angry than the average grieving mom. Now that being said I don't think there really is an average greiving mom. Some of us have lots of support and some of us have little. So of course the ones of us who have little good support are a little bit angrier about it. I have been known to go on a tirade a people who say bad things about my kids, either of them. I think I am more protective of Ds now that I have lost Arawyn. So I completely lose it when someone says something bad about him. And of course I have been known to lose it when some one gives me one of those horrible "comfort" lines. I swear the next person who tells me it was Gods will is going to wish they had never met me. But I don't think of myself as an angry person. Like you said I think of myself as an outspoken person. Somedays I rage and rant at Dh about something that happened, or something that was said to me, and my favorite part is that he gets all worked up and jumps in to help me. But he will point out that I get very loud when I am angry.

so I guess I want to say "good for you" :thumb You shoudl keep speaking your mind, and if this person can't handle it, well then it is her problem. You definately don't want to keep things bottled up, it just leads to ulcers and headaches. And I think you deserve a pat on the back for being such a strong woman. I think we all do. We have come through an experience that very few people ever have to make it through, and we are strong, and we are here to support each other. That is pretty impressive when you think about it. :grouphug

[AP Momma]

The anger will come and go. It's been 3 1/2 years since we lost Timothy and I still have angry. It's not all the time anymore but it's still there.

I haven't even begun to deal with Matthew's loss and that was 6 months ago. I pretty much shoved all those emotions down so far that it will take a while to sort through.

Does the angry make you feel bad or is it a nice relief parting with those strong feelings? If it's helping you work through your grief then don't apologize. If it's making you feel bad then maybe it's time to consider seeing someone to help you work through it. Anger is part of the process. Your family and friends will be there regardless of what you throw out there for them to deal with right now. If they don't then you don't really want them in your life afterall.

People aren't going to be as affected by the loss of Connor as you and DH. With all honesty I was totally clueless when I had friends or family miscarry before my loss. Only after experiencing the loss of my boys have I gained the compassion to support someone else during their loss. I try to remember that when I don't get the reaction that I want from the people in my life.

It's not that I didn't care, it's that I was uneducated in how to talk about loss. It's not a comfy feeling talking about death. Makes us all feel much too mortal. I have since apoligized to the woman in my life that I failed in the past.

We understand here having suffered through losing a much wanted and anticipated child. I found most of my support online too.

Don't apoligize for your feelings. You are working through one of the most difficult things there are to deal with in life. We love Conner as if he was one of our own. Our babies are loved and remembered here among those living the same nightmare day in and day out. I'm sorry you aren't getting the support you want irl. :grouphug We're here anytime.

-----------
I am 17 weeks today and everything is great so far. No more spotting. More flutters here and there. No regular movement yet but soon I hope. I am sporting quite the preggy belly these days. I'm loving this phase of the pregnancy.

We're working on the nursery. DH is painting the ceiling light blue and I'm going to sponge on some clouds. I can't wait! The walls are a pretty yellow and I've painted a tree floor to ceiling and a north cloud blowing wind over the closet door.

I'm waiting on my u/s Aug 16th when I hope to find out the sex of the baby. DH is very nervous. He's worried that I'm carrying another boy and that we'll lose a third son. He may not find out the sex so he doesn't have the extra worry. I am definately finding out though!

We go camping with friends in 2 weeks. Should be so much fun. Hopefully I can stay awake for the ritual of drinking by the camp fire. I of course will be abstaining from alcohol but catching up with everyone and making smores will be fun.

My big ole 30th b-day and bed & breakfast weekend is in just 3 weeks. I told DH the other day that I hope he realizes he's spending $200/night so I can sleep 18 straight hours lol. He replied "That's ok, I'm bringing the oil. I'll rub you down first and then you can sleep all that you want, you deserve it". He's such a sweetie! His b-day is next weekend, I better think of something good.

Sending positive and sticky vibes to all the belly beans,
Kris

[wilkers8]

iris0110...I definitely don't want to bottle things up, not just for me but for my husband and this new baby!

AP_Momma...It's a relief (immediately, it's painful) but after the initial shock/disappointment from the reply wears off, I feel lighter. I've come to a sense of closure at least on my side and it feels nice to be in control of closure in at least one aspect of my life. I'm so glad to hear your pregnancy is going well and have an absolutely wonderful birthday!!!!

After all of the emotions from last week, I barely thought I would have anything to write about this weekend. However, topics never seem to be lacking...

Ever since my appt early this week, my mood has been increasing each day. So what I was nervous about regarding attending the big birthday celebration (where I would have to face multiple people at a time) seemed to really disappear. I was able to go in there with the hope that it wouldn't be bad and that if something did happen, that I had the power to make it noted and then move on (as I've been doing with people all week long). Aside from one incident, the entire day went smoothly. Everyone was walking on eggshells around us but I felt like they were concerned more with making sure I was comfortable. That's really all I want. It was nice to have people asking questions about Connor (one person even yelled at me for not carrying a picture of Connor with me so she could see him!!!). I haven't been able to say his weight or length in a long time and saying it, well, it felt good. This was definitely another huge step in my progress as big events don't seem as scary as they did only a week ago. I'm sure that has to do with how well this party went but I think in gener