Vitamin K shot and Eye Ointment

[Erica]

For those of you who are going to delivery in the hospital, are you going to allow your baby to receive the ointment and shot? I'm really confused on these things. I'm really TERRIFED that if I refuse these procedures that they will call CPS on me (I've heard of them threatening this before). Maybe I should just to put off the procedures until the baby and I have (and daddy and big brother) have had bonding time.

Oh, how I wish I could just have a homebirth! :(

[wishful]

My friend just had her baby last week and I asked her about the eye stuff and the shot. She said that she requested the oral vit K and that she give the eye treatment. She had to have it in her birth plan, and the hoplital had to know about the oral K to have it on hand. But as far as the eye treatment she had it at her bed side and did it when her child was asleep. She siad that she mostly missed but made a good mess around his eyes ;)

You might try this. Oh one thing is that with oral K, it took two doses insted of one shot.

[sunmountain]

In my experience, both are unnecessary. However, that said, ds3 (homebirth) did get the ointment in the eyes b/c I had a bacterial infection (vaginal) a week or so before the birth, and we wanted to be on the safe side. The reason hospitals do it routinely is because they are germy places to begin with! But I refused the viamin K shot because I considered it unnecessary since I was breastfeeding, my doctor and my midwife concurred. Getting reported to CPS? sounds like you live in a police state, I've never heard of that.

[Erica]

GREAT! Thanks! I will definently talk to my midwife about that have it in my birthplan. :)

[Erica]

Isn't the Vitamin k shot to help the blood clot? How does breastfeeding help this? I would love to advoid it all together if it's safe!

[jordmoder]

I know there were studies done in Japan - oh, probably 8 years ago or so - that looked at providing the MOTHER with consistent doses of Vitamen K (through alfalfa? if I remember correctly)) to see if those higher levels would contribute to a baby's blood clotting ability.

Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2212808&dopt=Abstract

They weren't looking at all blood clotting problems, but it sure is interesting if you can get past the techno-language!

Barbara

[Elphaba]

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[Erin Pavlina]

We declined the Vit K in the hospital because when I asked what it was for they said the child may bleed out during surgery because their blood won't clot. And I'm like, "What surgery?" And they said, "Well just in case she needs one."

It's this "just in case" stuff I don't like. "Take antibiotics just in case you have an infection." Blah blah blah.

So I said, "Alright, if she needs surgery, I will get her the vit K shot okay?"

He realized he sort of stepped into that one!

Yes, legal troubles abound. I know vegans who have had their babies taken away from them for "malnutrition" simply because they didn't offer the child cow's milk!

If you don't vaccinate someone could get it into their head that it's neglect. It's really important to have an exemption handy when you need it. We're in California so we can decline on philosophical reasons (thank God!) otherwise if I were in a less liberal state, I'd have one ready to go! Because they will take your child, vaccinate them, and by the time you've gone to court it's too late to avoid the vacs.

[robynberkley]

My understanding is that if you live in NY State and refuse to have either treatment, CPS WILL be called. One of the recent Mothering Magazines had an article about it. My only issue with that article is that it discussed that the person didn't want the treatments for her child but didn't discuss the pros/cons of the treatments. I don't feel like I have a good understanding of WHY the person refused treatment...no judgement attached, I simply have no idea why they refused.

Anyway, it is a good idea to find out what your state/hospital's policy is and have that put in writing as soon as possible to protect yourself.

Good luck!
Robyn

[jaylind]

With DD we asked that both treatments be delayed until after DD was asleep so we didn't miss any of that hyper-alert state newborns seem to have for about an hour after the birth. We didn't want her eyes all gummed up while she was trying to see us for the first time!

They gave them both about 3 hours after she was born, when she was fast asleep and neither one bothered her at all.

jaylind

[jordmoder]

Ditto Robyn

I know that at least in Washington State, it is a LAW that eye proprophylaxis be administered to all newborns - end of story. It doesn't always get done, but it is one of those public health LAWS. Vitamin K is not, however, a legal issue - at least again in Washington state.

So find out the law in your state and if there isn't one, do what you feel is best for your child!

Vitamin K administered at birth is considered to be preventative of Hemorrhagic Disease of the Newborn - a 1:10,000 (or maybe even less) catastrophic incidence where the new baby's blood doesn't clot, and birth trauma can cause irreperable harm and sometimes death, in the first 10 days of life. So, it's one of those things - to prevent 1 incident, EVERYONE gets it no matter what. There doesn't seem to be much of a way to predict if a baby will not clot at birth - seems kind of funny that we were made requiring some outside articficial stuff... I have heard that in the Jewish tradition, circumcision isn't done to a baby boy until 8 days after birth to essentially get their Vitamin K levels up - some older wisdom, I suppose.

When last I looked, there wasn't any "acceptable"
oral Vitamin K solution - the baby can however suck the stuff down, just requires twice as much to get the same affect. The American Academy of Pediatricians wrote something about this -

"RECOMMENDATIONS


Since parenteral vitamin K prevents a life-threatening disease of the newborn and the risks of cancer are unproven and
unlikely, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends:

1. Vitamin K1 should be given to all newborns as a single, intramuscular dose of 0.5 to 1 mg. [9]
2. Further research on the efficacy, safety, and bioavailability of oral formulations of vitamin K is warranted.
3. An oral dosage form is not currently available in the United States but ought to be developed and licensed. If an appropriate
oral form is developed and licensed in the United States, it should be given at birth (2.0 mg) and should be administered again
at 1 to 2 weeks and at 4 weeks of age to breast-fed infants. If diarrhea occurs in an exclusively breast-fed infant, the dose
should be repeated."

(Pediatrics. Volume 91, Number 5. May, 1993, p 1001-1003.)

hope this helps!

Barbara

[Erica]

does anyone know a website that I can go to to find out the law regarding eye ointment in Colorado?

[happyday8598]

During the last couple of months of pregnancy I took Alfalfa tablets, and did so as well for the first few months of my nursing. I had also heard that Alfalfa has vitamin K.

I refused the Vitamin K shot, and got an earful from the doctors, but was firm in my decision. I didn't get any arguments other than that.

I agree about the article in the magazine. I was happy to see that they printed an article, but was disappointed that it wasn't an informative article but rather a life situation story.

My family doesn't have any history of blood problems, so I wasn't concerned that Caleb would contract anything.

As for the eye ointment, in the rush of everything and the fact that he had maconium (however it's spelt!) they told me that (1) it was already done and (2) that bc of the maconium, it was important. I didn't want to argue, bc I was happy that I had just given birth to my gorgeous little man.

Good luck with whatever decision you make! Check the definate laws in our state to see what you may be up against.

Emily :)

[caleb's mommy]

I wasn't sure who to call to find out the law in my state, but I did call the hospital I'll be delivering at and they could answer my questions.

Does anyone know of any other good sources of Vitamin K? I'm not sure that I could eat much alfalfa (sorry, Emily :)).

I have heard about the Vitamin K shot, but what are the cons of the eye ointment? I haven't heard that one yet. Just another unnecessary procedure or something more?

[Erin Pavlina]

The eye ointment is an antibiotic right? I believe they use it to prevent venereal diseases in the baby's eye. But if you don't have a venereal disease, you really don't need it.

[DirtyHippie]

Erica,
Well a week ago I would have said don't worry about it. But my daughters CF specialist called CPS on me for not giving her the treatment SHE reccomended. Look into it! I didnt have my son done but it was in a birthing center.

[luvmytwo]

I am still trying to find info. on vit. K and the eye ointment to make a decision. I ended up only seeing a NP on my last visit so I asked about the ointment and she said it is given because of the disease Chlamidiya (sp). She told me that you can have it for years 10-15 and not know it; this is what would cause blindness in the baby. She also said there is no real testing for the disease; it's hard to detect. Bottom line: you can have it and not know it. What do you all think of what she said?

[happyday8598]

Caleb's mommy, SILLY!! (silly you or silly me? :))

I couldn't eat that much alfalfa, either! BLUCK!

I take the Alfalfa tablets!!!

They taste gross if you let them touch your tongue before putting water in your mouth, but if you don't you don't even know you've just taken one!!! :)

Love,
Emily :)

[Elphaba]

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[caleb's mommy]

I think I can do the tablets, Emily! Thanks for the advice.
I wish I started earlier in my pregnancy, but I guess that's the good thing about breastfeeding--I can still pass on those vitamins!

[DirtyHippie]

Luvmytwo,

The chance of clahmydia not showing up for several years is VERY unlikley. Doctors offices will do anything they can to scare mom into getting these procedures done. Your babyu is more likly to have an allergic reaction than get an eye infection if you have never tested positive.

[jordmoder]

There certainly ARE tests for gonorrhea and chlamydia - chlamydia is harder to detect 'cause it's really small - but there have been better and better and better ways to pick it up. It is true that most women don't have symptoms, that's why it's so important to be tested!


Barbara

[Wildflower]

I didn't get either of these with my DD. Our birth center acted like plenty of their clients opt out, just had to sign a waiver. If you know you don't have any VD, no need for the eye stuff, and unless the birth is in some way more traumatic than usual for the baby, I was told by my doula that the K is not only unnessesary, but could have some long term ill effects on baby since too much Vit K is toxic to the body. Anyone else heard this?

[Julie]

When My son was born I didnt even know they put goop in the babies eyes so the very first time i saw him he had crap in his eyes...I was not impressed.....so with my DD I talked to my Dr about it (different Dr) and seeings as testing for gonorrhea and chlamydia are done on all pregnant women here and I tested negative for both I told him no Shit in my babies eyes....peroid...He checked to make sure I was making an informed decision and when he was satisifed that I was making this decision out of knowledge and not just cause I didnt want them gooping up my baby he was fine with it. As for the Vit K, Ya know I never even asked about that one...I know she didnt have it right away and she didnt leave my side and they didnt give her any shots after I had her so I dont see when they could have givent it to her...

[deb_n]

As a nurse, I feel the Vit K is a bit of an overkill, but a one quick shot is not a big deal to me. The oral Vit K is hard to get and needs several doses. But my husband and I have been screened for chlamydia (pretty easy to detect in his urine, and if he doesn't have it, you don't!), so I am not so worried about the eye ointment. If I don't have the birthcenter birth that we plan (where we are given the ointment and do what we want), then I am asking the hospital to wait and/or let me put in ointment, so we can meet our new little one without goop. As a NICU nurse, I saw most babes with goopy, irritated eyes for days afterwards.

[Birth Junkie]

Here's the research I've compiled on newborn interventions that I give to my birth class students and doula clients...

BODY MEASUREMENTS

Infant’s weight, length, and head circumference are measured. You can request to postpone this until after breastfeeding has been established immediately following birth. Taken also is the body temperature. A reading that’s over 100 or under 97 degrees could indicate and infection, but often the body temperature takes several hours to stabilize following delivery. These are also standard in a birth center or home birth.



Vitamin K—Injection or Oral

Vitamin K is a substance the body produces naturally for blood clotting and protects against hemorrhagic disease, which is extremely rare, but serious. Baby’s don’t produce vitamin K for a few days, but colostrum and breastmilk, although deficient in Vitamin K, contain factors which help the baby’s gut produce it’s own vitamin K. Be aware that the injection has been associated with rare childhood cancers, such as leukemia, in British studies due to the carcinogens Phenol contained in the shot . Signs of Hemorrhagic disease are bleeding out the orifices (nose, mouth, ears, bottom, etc. When bleeding is noticed get a Vitamin K shot within 24 hours to remedy the disease.

Hepatitis B Vaccination

Hepatitis B is a disease that is primarily passed by sexual contact or needle sharing, but can also be contracted by exchange of bodily fluids (i.e. saliva and blood). It can lead to chronic illness and liver damage. The immunization consists of an injection into the thigh and does not impart lifelong immunity. Giving this to newborns is extremely controversial because newborns do not have sex or are not drug users, the highest risk category. Side effects include soreness, fever, allergic reactions, digestive disorders, contracting Hepatitis B, and even death. Discontinued in 1999 due to high incidence of bowel obstructive disorder in newborns, the shot may still be given at your birthplace. If you don’t know anyone with Hep. B and are breastfeeding, you may wish to forgo the shot.

PKU and Blood Tests

These procedures consist of testing for hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), hypothyroidism (insufficient thyroid hormone), a rare but serious metabolic disorder called phenylketonuria (PKU), the inability to metabolize a milk carbohydrate called galactosemia. This screening requires multiple heel pricks on the heel

Eye ointment

Antibiotics given solely to protect against eye infection caused by exposure to gonorrhea or chlamydia in the birth canal. Drops are not given for any other reason. A mother may have been infected with the STD years ago, yet never develop symptoms—merely be a carrier. If you know you are clear of these STD’s, antibiotics are unnecessary.

Reflexes and Complete Physical

A doctor will test to see if all the reflexes are intact and check for overall health. This is required before discharge from the hospital, although you can sign out AMA if you wish to leave beforehand.

Can I refuse?

Of course! You have the right to refuse anything, although the hospital staff might give you a hard time about it and try to scare or threaten you into compliance. You also have the right to postpone the procedures for a healthy baby after you’ve had what you feel is sufficient bonding time. You can also request they be done in your room while holding the baby. Be sure to spell out your wishes in a birth plan and speak up.

APGAR: A=Activity P=Pulse G=Grimace (reflex irritability) A=Appearance (Skin Color) R=Respiration Done at 1 & 5 min. 7-10 pts is good

Sources: Bell TA, Grayston JT, Krohn MA, Kronmal RA, Eye Prophylaxis Study Group: Randomized trial of silver nitrate, erythromycin, and no eye prophylaxis for the prevention of conjunctivitis among newborns not at risk for gonococcal ophthalmitis. Pediatrics 92: 755-760, 1993; Is Vit. K linked to Childhood Caners? Golding et al., 1990, British Journal of Medicine, Aug. 8, 1992; Hep B: Joint Statement of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and the United States Public Health Service (PHS) [July 7, 1999]; Newborn Screening for Congenital Hypothyroidism: Recommended Guidelines (RE9316) Pediatrics Volume 91, Number 6 June, 1993, p 1203-1209