Any ex-pat moms out there?

[MamaDavid]

I would like to hear from any other MDC moms who are living in a foreign country.

I am South African currently living in Tanzania. My husband has a 2 year contract here and I have found the trailing spouse thing very hard.

[elsanne]

Here I am! A U.S. citizen living in Mexico...

hurrah for the expat life.

[MamaDavid]

Hi Elsanne - Pleased to meet you!
I have just been reading your Mexico thread and I can see that you are really loving it there. Reading the thread makes me feel like booking a ticket and getting over there - child friendly society + Waldorf school WOW!

My experience in Dar es Salaam has been very different. There is a Waldorf school here in Dar - we visited the primary school campus which was very stark (not even a single tree to be found) and the nursery school campus is situated inside a military base ... ummh.

I have found the weather a great challenge extremely hot and humid with little to no rain. It was 36 degrees celsius (+/- 97 degrees F) in downtown Dar the other day and the humidity must have been about 95%. We went for a drive along the sea this evening at 6:30 it was 32 degrees!

We are returning to Johannesburg at the end of March and the kids will be going to the Waldorf school there. (Family! Friends! Waldorf school! Excellent weather! I just can't wait)

After being here for about 18 months I made friends with an American and a German mom who are both more AP than mainstream. That has helped a lot. I will be sad saying goodbye to them.

I have learnt alot about myself in the last 2 years!

[elsanne]

Yes...your sig quote says it all! What have you been in Dar doing? I'm glad you found some kindred spirits.

I have been in Mexico a little over 3 years now, and also have lived in Guatemala, I guess I have a "thing" for Latin America :D but it is crucial to have a few friends from my own culture or similar in order to feel completely comfortable. Luckily in San Miguel this is not hard! Living in another culture I find somewhat addictive because life is never, ever dull...even going out to the store for bread or whatever has a specialness to it, because you must speak another language, the people look mostly different than you, etc.; I find it to be moderately a surreal experience and liken it to living in a movie. Right now I'm in the States with family for the holidays and enjoy that, but look forward to returning because I think the States is an extremely sick society overall (with it's good parts, don't get me wrong) and they have succeeded in cushioning the life experience to the extent that one feels almost nothing.

I prefer to live much juicier than that. Give me danger, give me raw, uncomfortable situations! Give me beauty beyond compare! Give me a life that feels like an article in National Geographic! Pique my brain trying to remember words in a foreign language!

PHew! Went off there momentarily. I do think it takes a hearty, oddball soul to live the expat life. :wink

[kmamma]

Hello.

I'm an expat too. I'm Swedish and married to an American. We've lived in the states for the past five or so years with a break last year when we decided to try life out in Sweden. I had become so accustomed to life here I felt it difficult to attempt being "Swedish" again. Although I kind of like life here (more freedom for self-expression, people are slightly less indifferent here than in Sweden) I rather be an expat elsewhere. Elsanne got me turned on to Mexico as well. Both dh and I would like to go there someday soon. We're going back to Minnesota next week (I can't believe it!!) to get back on our feet. Maybe Mexico will be next.

Expat life sure has its pro's and con's. I don't like the feeling of being torn between two countries, at times I feel my heart's being ripped in two pieces. But getting to understand life from different points of view, immersing yourself competely in a different culture are very special gifts.

Josefina.

[Elphaba]

...

[sphinx]

i'm american married to a czech, hating the winter!

[MamaDavid]

I had written this very nice post about how there are good things to life in Tanzania (apart from Dar es Salaam international airport and the daily flights to South Africa) and I was just about to submit it, when we had a power failure (very common - we have a diesel generator as the electricity sometimes goes off for days) and so my writing and positive attitude were both erased. I get sooooo frustrated - nothing works around here - for example we have had the one air conditioner in our lounge repaired no less than 7 times and it is still not working. Rant rant rave rave GRRRR!!!!!!!!!

Ok where was I ...

My husband works for Tanzania Breweries. He is an accountant. I worked as a freelance computer consultant before we came here. My level of frustration has more to do with the fact that I am one of those mothers who need to work, than with the power cuts, the shoddy workmanship and the weather. That coupled with being extremely lonely the first 18 months we were here.

The good parts of Tanzania for me are outside of Dar es Salaam. I love the African bush. Heat (not the humid kind), thorn trees, cicadas, that is the Africa of my childhood that I love. If one is going to be boxed in a city, I want the conveniences of a working city. Water supply, sewerage, electricity….

But before everybody gets the idea that we are these majorly outdoorsy type. Dh and I had a good laugh last night. We want to do a trip to the Serengeti and we found this tented camp in a remote corner of the Serengeti on the Internet. In April we were in Tarangire National Park. We had spotted some elephant and drove our 4x4 vehicle closer to have a good look. One rather large bull started walking towards our vehicle. We drove off, straight into a patch of black cotton mud and got the 4x4 truly stuck. (The elephant bull in the mean time ambled off in a totally different direction). Half an hour later, dh, by then covered in black cotton mud from our futile attempts of trying to get the vehicle unstuck, decided to go back to the camp for help. After a 2 km sprint (one doesn’t want to dawdle in the wilds of Africa) he got the rescue party together. Given our track record in Tarangire, we were debating whether trekking off to the remote corner of the Serengeti is such a bright idea ..

Large parts of Tanzania is still totally wild. In the South of the country is National Park called Selous and that has not been inhabited since the 1950’s. There is more than enough to experience around Tanzania, but living here there is always the time (dh only gets that much leave) and budget constraints.

Some people do go camping which sounds like an amazing experience (also very affordable). I am far too nervous to do it with the kids. The crying of a human baby attracts leopards as they hunt monkeys and our babies sound very similar.

Tarangire was amazing. We have also been to Zanzibar and had the real tropical island experience – snow white sands, palm trees and turquoise seas. We don’t do scuba diving or snorkeling as the kids are still too young to join in, but Zanzibar and the other islands off the Tanzanian coast like Mafia and Pemba have very good snorkeling and scuba diving and it is not all commercialized.

Thanks Elphaba I joined the yahoo group as well.

Josefina - We are returning to South Africa in April and although I am looking forward to it, it is going to be a case of having to be South African again. I think it is going to more difficult for the kids. Tanzania has become their home.

Sphinx – I hate the summer, while you are freezing, I am boiling – wanna swap?

[Elphaba]

....

[sphinx]

mamadavid, i can't WAIT to go to Africa! But this summer it will be India for us - related to which I have a question that may seem silly. DD (5) likes colder weather and complained a lot about the heat & sun when we were in Costa Rica and Mexico. The baby is only 3 months and has thus far experienced only cold weather. I am really worried that when we get to India in the middle of the summer the kids are going to have physical/emotional reactions to the 40 + degree heat. Can you give me any hints about how to deal with it? Does it slow them down? Could it induce depression? (My dd is very excitable so I wouldn't mind a little heat-induced languor on her part, but she's also very sad these days and I don't want that to be exacerbated.) I think we will have fans where we're living, most likely not air con. Any thoughts on this?
thanks!

As for the mixed marriage thing, and following the spouse, it can be so difficult. (I live here b/c my dh, whose umbilical cord seems inextricably rooted in Czech soil, can't bear living anywhere else - we tried - whereas I am quite sure this is NOT where I want to be for the rest of my life)... When you have kids, suddenly you have to weigh how important it is to give them roots, an identifiable home they will always be able to return to, and a sense of national/ethnic identity. Deciding on a third, "neutral" country would I think be even more confusing and unsettling to them. Also, a strange issue for me is that my kids are going to speak Czech better than I do and in fact possess this Czechness in their blood which is something that I will never be able to identify with. It's a real lesson in the "letting go" part of motherhood. Though I've lived here over a decade, have mostly Czech friends and speak the language, I'm still a foreigner - and I'm a foreigner when I go back to the States too. It's oddly alienating in a way, never feeling quite at home no matter where you are.

[MamaDavid]

sphinx - Our best solution to the heat is swimming, swimming and more swimming - hopefully your daughter likes water and that you'll have access to a pool. To counter the sadness give her something to look forward to in the new environment - even if it is just that she is going to be able to swim alot. Also be very careful what you say to other people in front of the kids. I do not like the house we are living in - it is very big and very ugly - but by Tanzanian standards it is a mansion. We lived in a hotel for 3 months before we moved into the house - this second move into the house traumatised my son even more than the move from South Africa and I think it was mostly because I had this thing about the house and he had heard me telling other people. For about a month he cried every day to go back to the hotel. If dd ever complains about being cold tell her hey, at least in India it is going to be nice and warm! Or show her pictures of tradition Indian sarongs and tell her you'll get her her own one to dress up in when you get there - or what ever might get her excited...

Also for dealing with the heat we let the kids run around the house nude esp. after their bath in the evening. They have about half an hour play time before we put their pajamas on. Go for cotton clothing and fabrics that breathe, anything artificial is a big no-no for me around here.

I do find that the heat does drain the kids energy although in general they are still bundles of energy. They are far more resilient and adaptable than us adults.

Both my friends here have these dual nationality marriages and they all seem to struggle with the "where to live" issue. My one friend is in Canada at the moment to see if that will work for them - she is American and her husband is British.

A bit aside - the best book I read was Robin Pascoe's "A moveable marriage" - it made me feel like I am not all that abnormal.

[Carmen]

You are welcome to join us on the group below.
There are about 100 of us there...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP-Expat-Moms

Some of you might like to join us here as well...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Expat...ingual-Families

[ingermany]

Hi, everybody, I'm another expat mom, an American TCK (third culture kid, i.e. culturally overworked person with no coherent national identity) living in Germany with a German partner. So I can't really complain about the heat.

Thanks for the link to the yahoo group, I'll definitely check it out.

Did any of you have your first babies when abroad or deal with cross-cultural differences regarding how children should be treated and what is considered normal?

I ask about any first-time moms abroad because I think being a foreigner and also making the transition to motherhood both can be very disorienting and challenging. Perhaps it is also an opportunity to be thrown back upon your own real self and to learn to make choices based on something deeper than culture, whether yours or the host country's. I had my first baby here earlier this year.

[Hollycrand]

ingermany,

Did you know there's also a Germany 'tribe' on MDC? There are several of us who regularly post. Come and join us!

[Ilaria]

Bumping this ancient thread :)

[elsanne]

Wow, Ilaria, just checking out your life vis-a-vis your blog, photos, etc...looks fabulous! Really seems like a great place and way to raise your kids. And that party, the pirate party for Owen, whoa mama! You are amazing. I am actually inspired because I'm about to have #2 2yrs, 2 mos apart and am soooo scared of the initial transition--but am inspired by the happy siblings I see like yours. You know this, but it bears repeating that your kids are GORGEOUS!!!

Down here in Mexico doin' the expat thing...I was in the peace corps in guatemala and this I refer to as Peace Corps Lite...:lol I mean, I have a washing machine and telephone for heaven's sake!!! :rotflmao

[juliet g]

Hello there I am another expat mama from australia living in the middle east and trying to survive this lonely summer heat. My husband is on a 2 year contract, and I find living here quite isolating and very cliquie. I had a wonderful support network around me in Australia and expected the same thing here, but it is much harder than I thought. So I am very happy to read your postings and look forward to chatting.:shy

[Ilaria]

How long have you been there, Juliet? Are there any expat clubs?

[hakeber]

Wow! So many! I'm an ex-pat mom from NYC now living with my DH, who's from Glasgow, in Buenos Aires, Argentina. We've been here two and half years. Ds is 15 months.

[elsanne]

Neato Argentina! Love it there...

[kmamma]

How is it like in Buenos?

[sraplayas]

Hi, I'm an AP expat mom living in coastal Tijuana. Life here has been a real adventure for me! Even though we are just miles from the border, we are definitely in a foreign land and that has been thrilling, beautiful, educational, lonely, delicious, frustrating, sweet and, at times, smelly!

[LailaCA]

Does anyone live in Sicily? I have been offered a position and am considering moving...but am very overwhelmed.

[twilight girl]

Expat mum living in Costa Rica. Baby #2 on the way. We're looking forward to having the baby here. That way he or she will have the option of choosing Costa Rican over US citizenship. If he/she goes for Costa Rican, then the rest of us can get residency. It's our back up plan in case the U.S. continues down this scary politico-religious path it's on. ;)

We own a small coffee farm, and mill, so I figure we'll at least be able to put food on the table!

[jessicaabruno]

Hi,

I'm signing up even though I'm not a mama or expat yet, but want to be one as soon as I get a chance to do it.

[sraplayas]

-

[hakeber]

How is it like in Buenos? We like it very much here...the healthcare is awesome and the people are so cool...we really like it.

[Mommabelle]

HI..I'm newish to MDC. My husband is actually the ex-pat (Australia) not me, but anyway I get curious about these things especially haveing kids. We live in the US. I always wonder if my kids are going to live on two seperate conintents and I'll be granny with a cane on the plane the last 25 years of my life traveling to visit all my grandkids (there better be some!) I always feel sad that we can't have both families with us. My husband is not at all involved int he ex-pat community here and I've tried to get him involved..I really can't understand it..are any of you like that? and why? One of the teachers at my daughters school is Australian and my daughter is really drawn to her. Makes me happy.

[ATD_Mom]

I'm truly not sure if it counts or not - but I am an American living in Canada. We are currently in a province quite far from my home state, and the culture is fairly different. 'Twould be lovely to meet other folks in the same boat, but unfortunately because Can-US cultures are seen as so similar, the existence of an American Ex-pat group here doesn't really make too much sense. I'm without a support network and have been postponing TTC until we can find one - I can't imagine how the rest of you are doing it, so far away and in such different cultures!

[elsanne]

Oh, Kristin. I don't know what an ATD is but I just surfed all over your site and am just swooning over your wedding pix. What a lovely day. Youguys will create lovely progeny!!! Liked getting a "peek" at your life.

In terms of your post, I have a muuuch larger social circle here than I did back home, because of what it is to be an (obvious) foreigner in another culture...it throws you together in ways it wouldn't back home. Also, the "daily grind" is sooo different than my life stateside...I don't live (commute, big city, job all day) anonymously with little time for my friends like I used to. Seems like in Mexico people have time for each other much more often than I ever did back in the U.S.

[ATD_Mom]

And having just read every word of your blog, I am swooning, myself, over those two beautiful girls of yours. Please count me in with the rest of those who are telling you they envy your lifestyle. How wonderful would it be to be closer to those you love?

I was going to say "have the time to be closer to," but I just don't think it's accurate. I have all the time in the world - this society just isn't built for being together. It's built for being alone in your house, in your fenced-in back yard, in your car, in your super-size grocery store. I just wonder, short of living in a commune (well, I guess they are "intentional communities" these days), where one could find such a way of life as yours, back here in the U.S./Canada?

Our progeny ... My mother has been requesting "little curly-haired (http://www.kgspottery.com/August_2006/wedding/images/11.jpg) blonde babies" since the day we announced our engagement. But I don't feel comfy TTC here, because I know my support network post-partum will be one: my DH, who works 13 hour days.

ATD = Alby The Dog (http://kgspottery.com/July_2006/tomatoe.jpg). The light of my life, who yacked in the basement this morning while I was out fetching OJ for the strep-throat-suffering DH. Must clean that up now.

[elsanne]

Awww what a handsome man, may you be blessed with the curls! Neither I nor my babies' dad have curly hair and Sol has the ringlets to die for...somehow my mom's curly genes showed up there...also, he is Mexicano and they both turned out blonde haired, blue eyed! Genes are crazy things!

Just took her to school--her second day--well, it's really a daycare/stimulation program thing. She loves it and has noooo issue like separation anxiety, nothin'. She was so cute toting her new lunch pail. Oh heavens. Parenting is a total trip.

I want to encourage you to just start ttc, because you will NEVER be in the "right" place/time/financial sitch/health/younameit to have a baby. And getting pregnant will open up worlds to you: pregnant moms' group, prenatal classes, prenatal yoga, I did prenatal pilates...anyway immediately your support group will begin to grow itself. Ceramics, while lovely (and yours are INCREDIBLE), is kind of a solo sport unless you have an open studio/give classes, etc...ya gotta GET OUT THERE...
I say all this but had a heckuva time having friends stateside, unless they came to ME.
Forgive me if I'm offering totally unwarranted opinions on your sitch, I tend to do that. :loveeyes:

[ATD_Mom]

As someone who spends far too much time thinking, planning, researching and asking for advice, I completely appreciate yours.

Because I fear drifting this thread into a topic completely about mememe, I'm PMing my reply instead!

[calynde]

Hello everyone!

I'm a Californian living in Switzerland for the last 5 years. :wink So many of you have cool blogs! I'm thinking it's just not exotic enough here. I have no idea what I would write about. :lol Maybe garden gnomes?

[elsanne]

:lol Maybe garden gnomes?

:rotflmao

You're funny!

Anybody have their kids in preschool or school? Tell me what it's like! I have my dd1 in a montessori "school", 3 hrs a day. I like it. It costs $150/mo., after initial fees of almost $430, ouch! For a two year old! Apparently I chose the most expensive little program here. Next year I plan to take her to the waldorf school, which is even more expensive. hm.

Anyway it looks like they have lots of fun, lots of didactic materials and outdoor play, a great sand lot as well.
The public schools are just not an option here for me, because they rely so heavily on obedience and rote learning and group/sheep mentality (oh boy, huge generalizations there...just my opinion, mind you).

[calynde]

:rotflmao

You're funny!

Anybody have their kids in preschool or school? Tell me what it's like!

Our son (nearly 4) goes to a bilingual Montessori (German and French) here, but only 2 mornings a week. The main reason is because we always spoke to him in English and he has an intense desire to learn Swiss German now (the language of our family here). We couldn't really see any other way for him to pick it up. We live in a bilingual town so we couldn't really avoid adding French to the mix, but as of yet, he's only picked up a few words in it.

I taught at a Waldorf school for a while here, and I think I prefer many things about it over Montessori. There is more of a distinct community involved with Waldorf. Also, because Steiner's philosophy involves nutrition and health, you find a lot of non-vaxing families, a high percentage of vegetarian and organic families etc. Not sure whether or not that's important to you. :p

If we stay here in Switzerland, our son will likely do Waldorf, because it's much much more widespread than Montessori and because it suits us a bit better I think. If we end up going abroad again somewhere further afield (fingers crossed!!!), we'll probably un/homeschool. :thumb Then the whole world will be his classroom. Fab!

[Ilaria]

Both of my kids go to a Montessori School (AMI) here, I am so happy it's here and I love it for the most part (except for the 'forced apologies incident'). I believe it is quite expensive but dh's company pays, so taht's nice. :)
I created an album about it, it's in my photosite in my sig. It's really cool...and now it's open again after being shut down due to the Typhoon! Yay! :)

[elsanne]

Ilaria, great photo albums. I actually learned a lot about my daughter's school, which is montessori, thanks to your album! It made me feel really good about it! I am looking forward to the waldorf school next year because I have seen it, and the kinder area is just the cutest you have ever seen. Very neato. Also I really like the waldorf pedagogy.

[calynde]

Ok, Switzerland starts getting really cold this time of year...

So:

Swiss/American family looking for expat life in warm climate with friendly people and no malaria. :wink

any ideas?

no, really...

[elsanne]

NO malaria here!

:lol Mexicans are VERY friendly.

[calynde]

NO malaria here!

:lol Mexicans are VERY friendly.

Shoot...Spanish is unfortunately not one of our 4 languages. :lol But I suppose that can be easily changed!

Elsanne-could you tell me what a house rents for (this could also be PM'd)? (house meaning normal house, not mansion or palace). I'm curious how far these Swiss Francs might go...

we're ready for our next adventure!

and we're playing the Euro-lottery tonight for the first time ever! I plan to manifest millions!! :thumb :lol

[elsanne]

and we're playing the Euro-lottery tonight for the first time ever! I plan to manifest millions!! :thumb :lol

Undoubtedly you will win!!! :wink

I live in one of the most expensive towns in Mexico, unfortunately, but a decent 3 bedroom house in town will run around $1,000/mo...this is new, from about five years ago. Used to be that $500 could get you a great deal.

I live outside of town and pay $550 for a large 2 bedroom place with big yard.

(all prices in usd)

[LailaCA]

I am a third culture kid totally. My father was American, mother French from France (all maternal relatives still there) and I was reared in Germany (father was military and then teacher with the government).

I always feel torn between many places. I have been in CA for 19 years and know the state well and love it tremendously...though home prices are too expensive and even with an MA I can never afford to purchase a home...unless I move to areas in the valley. My father was from Maine and all his family is there and I love that area as well as my relatives. My heart longs for Germany again though. My growing up years in Karlsruhe were the best. I often lay in bed and remember the streets I walked (lived in Munich for 3) and I can still remember every nook and cranny of the home we lived in. I remember the streets we took to school everyday etc. I miss it so. It is my goal to get back to Europe. I missed one chance because my father was dying. I missed another due to being misled regarding a salary.

I worry though...if I am in Europe...wont I miss CA terribly. I am especially devoted to Monterey County? Also...I grew up this way...and I have no real roots...or rather...I have many...Germany, France, Maine, and California. Since I am not wealthy...I can not have all of them.

Do I want to raise my little guy this way? It is a horrible feeling to always be longing for somewhere and never really, quite, fit in. I am not from Karlsruhe...yet it is my home. I am not from Maine...yet I lived there for 5 years and my relatives are there. I am not from France...yet more relatives are there...and I do love the culture. Alas, I am not from CA yet I have lived here the longest and am drawn to the Pacific Coast...the Redwoods...and find solice in Big Sur, Point Lobos, and Half Moon Bay. Do I not want my little one to feel connected and have a "hometown"? However, there is a lot to be said for seeing and experiencing the world. My senior trip was to Spain and junior year went to Geneve and Rome. Senior year to Amsterdam and Spain. I have roamed over the Jura in France and all over Southern Germany. Yet nowhere is home and everywhere is home.

I am a single mom with a 4 year old cherub. Where do I live? I miss the international lifestyle...but what is best for him? It is an odd feeling to feel that everywhere is home...and that your roots are in several locations. It is also odd to feel that you will never quite fit in and always be the one who moved in.

Sorry for going on...but I am thinking of international jobs for school year 2007-2008 and have some opportunities. I worry for me and the little one. I know how this international growing up has molded me...and I always have the feeling of having no "real" hometown to go to. THe one I love, Karlsruhe, is German and I am not...and therefore not fully accepted. Ugh. Sorry.

Advice, comments, thoughts....needed and appreciated.

[Turkish Kate]

I love when these old threads get unearthed.

Ex-pat mama here--American, living in Istanbul, Turkiye. My DH is Turkish with dual American citizenship, my DD is 100% American, and we are expecting a new bundle in just a few weeks.

[arwenevenstar]

Ex-pat mama here too - Hi Kate, Did Meg get Thomas' card?

I am a Brit living in the US, but have also lived in Ireland (okay not VERY ex-pat!!) and Belgium (a little more ex-pat!!)

Not sure where or what we are up to next. We have been here 18 months and probably here 2 more years.

Three smalls, all in Montessori ed and LOVING it. I am working part time as a doula and childbirth educator and about to undertake Montessori training myself hopefully in September. We are loving it here. Gradually seeing some of the country and meeting lots of really fantastic people.

So, Hi, Hola and Bonjour!

[Turkish Kate]

Merhaba!

Yes, she did. Sorry I didn't get back to you, but it was right around the time that we went back to the US for two weeks. She has the picture hung on the wall over her bed!

[Megan_in_Holland]

Hi y'all,

I'm not a mama yet, but I *am* an expat of sorts-- an American with a Dutch partner living in the Netherlands-- and I'm really enjoying reading about everyone else's experiences living abroad.

I don't actually feel like an "expat" since my whole life is here in NL now-- I speak Dutch all day, have Dutch friends, just got my Dutch drivers' license, work and study here, etc. I moved overseas immediately after graduating from college in the US, so I don't really even know what it's like to live in the "real world" in the US (as opposed to living in an apartment with a bunch of other students, living off scholarship money and microwave ramen noodles...).

It took a couple of years before I really felt like I blended in here-- for the longest time I felt like I was just "that American girl". Something I never gave much thought to (my nationality) was suddenly my defining characteristic in other peoples' eyes. But now that I'm comfortable and settled in here, it feels really weird to go back to the US. I can't help but see things there in a different light... how did I not notice the materialism, the wastefulness, etc? I sometimes wonder where I "belong", since my original home (the US) doesn't feel like home anymore, and yet I'm not Dutch and never will be.

So anyway, my DP and I are planning on TTC this fall, and I'm really curious how this inner conflict is going to affect our (future) kids. Will they identify with their American "roots" at all? I'm sure they'll be fine as far as the English language is concerned-- we plan on doing the whole OPOL thing, and nearly all TV/movies/music is in English here-- but what about developing a sense of "Americanness?" Will they ever learn to identify with a country they only see on vacations/holidays, and would I be bothered if they didn't? What's it like to have your grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc living on another continent? And on the flip side, will they feel somehow less Dutch if their mom speaks only English to them?

I'm sure this is all not nearly as dramatic as I'm making it out to be-- I just like to worry. :) Mostly I'm just super-excited about TTC and am dying that I still have to wait until at least Aug/Sep! :lol

[Turkish Kate]

Hiya, Megan:

Great name! (It's my daughter's too, but hers is spelled a bit differently.) I know what you mean about your nationality suddenly becoming your identity. I'm "the yabanci," which means foreigner, in the little village where I live. As far as I know, I am the only foreigner here in this little village, although there are a couple of other yabancis in the next village over. I've only been an ex-pat for a little over a year, but like you, I see clearly now all the things with the US that I didn't see before--the materialism, the lack of family support, the attitude of every-man-for-himself, the selfishness, the wastefulness, etc. Americans tend to be very ethnocentric, which has become incredibly annoying to me. The only *right* way to do things is the "American" way, other cultures are inferior, everyone should give special privilege to them because they're American, etc.

Since we've moved to Istanbul, we've been back to the US twice. The first time was for summer holiday and I was so homesick to come back to Turkiye where the food is fresh and the people are nice and friendly. We spent six weeks traveling and I was so ready to be home. The second time, I knew a bit better what to expect (in terms of my own emotions), and we only stayed two weeks, which made it slightly more bearable for me. I've noticed that everytime we go back, I gain a huge amount of weight (although I've been pregnant when traveling), which I attribute to the chemicals and preservatives in the food there. Of the 30 or so pounds that I've gained in this pregnancy, at least 20 of them were picked up in the US.

We have a new little bundle coming in a few weeks, but I haven't worried about him accepting an American identity. Unfortunately, American culture is somewhat revered here, and he will be labeled as an American whether he wants to be or not. I'm sure that he will have some identity issues as a teenager (but don't we all?) concerning his nationality, but I don't know what the world will be like, so I try not to be too concerned with it. I have no fears about his language ability--with him mom and sister speaking English to him at home and everyone else speaking Turkish, he is sure to be bilingual from the start. I don't think that he will necessarily feel less Turkish, but he will certainly have it easier when they start teaching English in high school.

Anyway, I could ramble on all morning, but I really just wanted to say hi and welcome to the wonderful world of ex-pat parenting!

[Ilaria]

Hi Megan! I am Italian but lived much of my adult life in the US (since I was 18), then married American dh. My kids were born in the US, but we've been living in SE Asia for the past 2 years...so their national identity is even more confused! I think a lot of it rests on you: how much American culture do you want to pass on? Besides the language, we watch Italian movies, we celebrate Italian holdiays..same for the US though that is MUCH easier as US culture is everywhere....stiil, we do halloween, 4th of July,...as much as we do though, they will not ahve the same identity/nationality/growing up experience aseither me or their dad. That makes me a bit sad sometimes, but what they gain is worth so much more IMO.

[Megan_in_Holland]

I've noticed that everytime we go back, I gain a huge amount of weight (although I've been pregnant when traveling), which I attribute to the chemicals and preservatives in the food there. Of the 30 or so pounds that I've gained in this pregnancy, at least 20 of them were picked up in the US.

I know what you mean-- we just got back and both my DP and I have gained enough weight in 2 weeks that we're having trouble buttoning our jeans... :irked: I used to look forward to going home and eating tons of Tex-Mex and southern food (biscuits with gravy, fried okra, green beans with bacon, etc). But I've gotten really into whole foods and baking with whole grains in the past year, so I was pretty grossed out by most of the stuff we ate in the US and by the fact that I used to eat it so enthusiastically. I didn't want to offend anyone, so I ate most of it without complaining, but I was really horrified by some of the "food" my family regularly put into their bodies. Both my grandmothers live off of TV dinners and canned fruit cocktail (swimming in high-fructose corn syrup of course), and even my mom, who is a good cook, has a pantry full of processed crap containing tons of preservatives, trans-fats, and loads of sugar and salt. She was really offended when I politely turned down her sausage gravy, which was made from a mix and which listed "partially hydrogenated cottonseed oil" as the first ingredient, and HFCS as the second... eew! :eek

While Dutch people certainly eat enough junk too, it's way easier to eat healthily here since fruit and veggies are so cheap, and supermarkets are too small to fill up with aisles and aisles of prepackaged crap. I love that the Dutch idea of "convenience food" is fresh, precut vegetables in various combos (you have different "blends" for veggie soup, pea soup, spaghetti sauce, various stir-fry dishes, etc.) in the refrigerated section. It's cheap and easy, and while I don't use them very often, it's nice to see that people grab for those instead of Hamburger helper or something.

Anyway, didn't mean to turn this into a rant about American food... I know not everyone eats that way, but I had to reply when I read your post. :)

Oh, and I see from your siggy that your "Meg" and I share the same birthday! Wow! :p

[Turkish Kate]

Oh, and I see from your siggy that your "Meg" and I share the same birthday! Wow! :p

Ummm. . . . her birthday isn't in my sig.

I'm with you on losing the "taste" for American foods. We have almost no processed foods here, and even the ones that are processed (tomato paste, etc) are generally preservative-free. No such thing as Hamburger Helper, no Bisquick (except for the box I brought from our trip last summer), not much in the way of frozen stuff either. Some days I miss the convenience, but I always enjoy the taste much more with fresh. I *do* miss my Campbell's soups, though. :o

[Megan_in_Holland]

Ummm. . . . her birthday isn't in my sig.
Oops, sorry, I can't read today! I saw the 'March 07' and just got all excited without bothering to look at what that was referring to... :o

[Turkish Kate]

Oops, sorry, I can't read today! I saw the 'March 07' and just got all excited without bothering to look at what that was referring to... :o

Oh! My Meaghan was born October 15th, but maybe I'll hit your birthday with the new baby!

[googiesweet]

hi ladies,

i could have written those posts!!! i soooooo get where you are coming from!

i too grew up in california til right after college (loved the reference to ramen noodles!!!), then moved to germany, where i lived for 12 years before coming here to the u.k. because of DHs work (he is german). we have been here 3 years. DS1 was born in berlin and DS2 here in england so i have been in the mama cocoon for nearly 4 years now = hardly getting out past the parenting and exhaustion, KWIM?

my mom is german and spoke it to us at home, so i never had any trouble with the language, tho never identified with germany while growing up, but it feels like home now and we will be moving back to berlin in april, to a large circle of friends, grandma, cousins, etc. and i am sooooooo psyched. england has been interesting and beautiful but i have had a hard time making friends here, people are much more reserved than i would have thought. i also thought the english language would make it easier to understand what people are saying, but i often feel i dont quite get what is going on in a conversation, because of the english irony, understatedness and politeness. i often have left a conversation completely unsure of what the other person REALLY meant, or fully misunderstood hidden "hints" that were very embarassing later.

anyway, i am with you on american food, so processed, just read that list of ingredients, bleah!!! MSG and HFCS in everything! and the huge stores, malls, parking lots, freeway interchanges, it is culture shock each time we go back. i like to see my family and friends in california on vacation, but i dont want to live there anymore. also the obsession with safety and crime, it seems so much more low key in europe.

in berlin i often forget i am american, because everyone around me is german and i am immersed. here in england it was immediately obvious because of my accent and people were always asking me where i was from in the states, and it would feel so bizarre because i dont really feel "american" anymore at all. i feel german, even though i am not.

i wonder too what it will be like for my kids. when we move back to berlin i will be the only one speaking english to them, will my DS1 lose his english accent he has acquired here and start talking like me? i must admit, it does feel strange that he speaks differently than i do, but then again, like someone else posted, our kids will have different cultural associations than either i or DH did growing up. some "american" things are important to me and i pass them on to my kids: celebrating halloween, baking apple pie, making french toast or chocolate chip cookies. a lot of the german kids stuff (characters, TV shows, games) is completely foreign to me because i didnt grow up there. we expats do sort of drift between the cultures, dont we?

nice to have found you!

[arwenevenstar]

Hi Googiesweet and welcome Megan!!

Where abouts in Berkshire are you Googiesweet? We still have our cottage there! In Ascot!

I just wanted to join in with your discussion about food, I know exactly what you mean about the ease with which you can buy cheap and good fresh veg and fruit in Europe. We lived in Brussels for a couple of years and I loved to spend my Sunday mornings mooching around the Market at the station. There was such a wide variety to choose from and soooo cheap!

That said, I have to stick up for the US a little though and say that it is also choice that makes people put their quick, convenience meal in their cart over maybe taking a little longer to prepare stuff and being a little more adventurous. I am still in awe of people I meet who don't know how to cook!:dizzy: Perhaps that is more the issue than what is readily available? Perhaps it is what people have grown up with and gotten used to? I have to say, I probably eat and cook a whole lot healthier now we have children, despite probably having less time, because it is important to me that I show them that it is nice to prepare a meal and eat good food. Some days it is bloody hard work to think up a great or interesting menu, particularly as my middle child is a veg-a-phobe so I have to think of ways to get fresh veg into his food without his immediate knowledge LOL!:lol

I do agree on price though, but still, over the UK, the US is favourable for cost of living!

With regards to identity, I don't have much to "offer" on that. My dd was born in Brussels, but I suppose I see myself as European anyway, she has no Belgian passport and we no longer live there so I don't forsee us exactly incorporating it into her life. My boys were born in the UK so that isn't an issue. I do like the fact though, that hopefully they will have such diversity and understanding of other cultures. So much of the conflict in the world is caused by a lack of understanding and acceptance of cultures and I know I don't really have much worth saying on that as my children have been in Europe and the US, so hardly massively different, but they have been draped in other festivals, other languages, other nationalities and I hope it removes the blinkers that certainly many Brits (sorry!) from my parent's generation and probably many Americans have.

Mind you, as an aside, my sons still think that my dd, despite fluent English, was naturally born speaking French and sometimes when she says things that aren't clear, they tell me that it is because she is talking in French or Flemish!:lol

[elsanne]

arwenevenstar--enjoyed your blog in your sig--

[arwenevenstar]

arwenevenstar--enjoyed your blog in your sig--

Thank you Elsanne!

[googiesweet]

arwenevenstar, we are just south of Reading in a tiny village. i have loved the rural lifestyle, although many of our neighbors are porsche-driving IT consultants that have moved into converted cottages and barns, a bit odd!

[arwenevenstar]

arwenevenstar, we are just south of Reading in a tiny village. i have loved the rural lifestyle, although many of our neighbors are porsche-driving IT consultants that have moved into converted cottages and barns, a bit odd!


Ha ha:lol ! Sorry to laugh, I can just picture it. You'd think people would move to nice secluded locations in the country to be at one with nature, instead they like to pump it full of their exhaust fumes from their porches, fill their homes with the latest in technology so they never leave the house and probably never are "at one" with anything except their finances:dizzy: !!!

Anyway, that aside: sounds like where I am here in CT LOL!

Still, hope you make the most of it there. There is a great Waldorf school near that area I think it is around Tilehurst? and if you have diaper wearing babies, then Miranda from Twinkleontheweb.co.uk lives not far from Reading either. There are some great crunchies around.........but you have to hunt them down!!! LOL

[calynde]

Hi everyone,

I'm from California, but living in Switzerland for 5 years. My son was born here, my dh is Swiss. We really love this country, but it hasn't been easy...I think it's harder now than when I first came. The people are fine, but it's really hard to make good friends with Swiss...at least for us. Over the years, my closest friends have been other foreigners...they come and go in waves, usually leaving at some point, and then we are left to start all over again.

We have decided to move back to the US for a while (Portland, OR). Even with all you say (materialism, bad food, fatness, crime?) I still feel like it will be a nice break from expat living. It's my language, there are lots of like minded mamas in PDX, it's normal to homeschool, we'll be able to afford a house...
I don't take the downsides of life in the US lightly...Switzerland is pretty much the opposite after all. But is it really so bad for you all when you go back? I eat exactly the same way here (fresh) as I did there, and I thought the fruit and veg was way less expensive (at least on the west coast...or is it just pricey Switzerland?), the people are certainly better traveled here (and multilingual) but they are not more *open* to outsiders despite those things. The things that are good there are not so great here and vice versa. No place is perfect I guess.

I think it will be interesting for us to go live in the States again, for better or worse, just to get some perspective and to take a breather from being foreign. Perhaps it will only solidify the positive aspects of Switzerland? Or perhaps it really will be better for us in Oregon. Although the list of reasons to stay in Switzerland is incredibly long, I really cannot overemphasize how important it is to have a good social network of like-minded people. We've never had that here, no matter how wonderful it is otherwise. And as our son gets older, that's becoming much much more important to us.

And maybe it depends on where in the US you're from? I know of the negatives which were mentioned on this thread (and everywhere else), but none of that was part of my "circle". KWIM? :shrug

Just my thoughts! :wink

[googiesweet]

hi calynde, saw you post in the bilingual kids thread! glad you found us here! have you started the whole resident visa/greencard thing for your husband yet to move back to the states? THAT is a can of worms, eh?

of course there are awesome things about living in america and the microcosms of crunchiness like portland are great places to live. there are things i really miss, like the friendliness and the fact that you just get into conversations with random people all day long and even if you arent going to be best friends, you may have shared a little with one another that moment. sure there were times i missed california (santa cruz, the ocean, my family, my friends) so bad i wanted to move back. we even started the green card application so we could move to san diego for a few years to be close to my family, but that didnt work out job-wise. i think it would be great for you guys to be able to move back for awhile, it gives you perspective!

are the swiss like the germans when you are in a restaurant and ask for a glass of tap water they look at you disdainfully and then "forget" about it for a half hour until you have to ask again? i hate the rudeness of the service industry in germany! i love the politeness and friendliness in the states.

arwenevenstar, i have found crunchy friends here in england through LLL, but other than that i found like calynde that i am drawn to other expats, often americans or germans like us, that then move on. it is rough, for the kids too. actually one of my american LLL friends married to a german just moved to portland and is homeschooling her 3 kids! and now we are the ones moving on and my best friend here (german) is sad about it.

[calynde]

hi calynde, saw you post in the bilingual kids thread! glad you found us here! have you started the whole resident visa/greencard thing for your husband yet to move back to the states? THAT is a can of worms, eh?


we haven't gotten into all that yet, but my friend here just went through the whole process with her dh and it wasn't so bad...only incredibly expensive! There is a good job *possibility* for dh in Portland, so we're hoping hoping hoping that the company will help with all the paperwork. It should be ok. I'm optimistic! :wink

Foreigners here are always complaining about the grumpy service. I'm even told that Germans are friendlier than Swiss in this regard. I've been here so long now I barely notice it anymore. :lol

It really is a wonderful place. I'm just tired. I feel the need to be on my home turf again...albeit a crunchier, more liveable version...just for some perspective. And an emotional rest. :zzz And some physical space. It's teeny tiny here. Everyone lives on top of each other! Not always easy for a Californian. :bigeyes

[arwenevenstar]

It really is a wonderful place. I'm just tired. I feel the need to be on my home turf again...albeit a crunchier, more liveable version...just for some perspective. And an emotional rest. :zzz

I know what you mean about an emotional rest. There is so much to be said for the familiarity of your own turf. However easy a country is to live in/adapt to, there is always an element of the "unsaid" in your own country that takes just so much more explaining when abroad.

[EdnaMarie]

edited to preserve anonymity

[elsanne]

Izobelle, the lifestyle of whom does not have any smilies! Fuuuunnnyyy!!!:lol :lol :lol :lol <--there's your first one

[edenluna]

i'm an expat- from the US living in scotland with my dh who is scottish... i live in a small town where everyone who knows me knows me as the 'american', which can be very annoying at times.

we went to see my parents in Florida over christmas, and i had a hard time coming back here. some of it was the food (there are just some things that i can't get here that i really really miss), the weather, and family and friends. I lived in portland, oregon for 10 years, and i really miss the lifestyle there, and all my friends who are still on the west coast. many of my friends came to see us in florida (who can pass up a florida vacation in december?) so when we got back to the cold scottish coast, i was sooo depressed.... perhaps it was the pregnancy???!!!

i usually don't have a hard time making friends, but i have since i have been here (for a year). perhaps it has been that i am not working (due to all the red tape i JUST became eligible to work here) or maybe it is the small town (i have never lived in a small town like this)... it just seems that all the people i meet aren't, well irreverent enough for my tastes, and they all think i am a little bonkers or something.

[elsanne]

Aw, Eden. Sounds rough. Any pregnant chick groups, childbirth classes? When I was in the peace corps in Guatemala I lived in a small town, and the hardest thing about the whole (wonderful) experience was being such an object of interest/curiosity, at all times, just walking up to get bread or something.

Your sitch sounds really different from your Portland life, and I can totally see why that would bum you out. Why are you there? I have heard that the Scottish are not particularly friendly folk.

[calynde]

maybe it is the small town (i have never lived in a small town like this)... it just seems that all the people i meet aren't, well irreverent enough for my tastes, and they all think i am a little bonkers or something.

I used to think it was the *small town* thing for me, too...but then we moved to the city and it still felt small. I always secretly thought my main problem feeling at home here was that I can't speak my own language...but looking at your situation, maybe not!

I don't know...is it because we're Americans and everything really is just *bigger* there...including ideas and expectations?

I'm so glad I've been able to have this experience living abroad because I am fundamentally changed for the better. But I've come to terms with the fact that as wonderful as it can be somewhere else, it's not *always* meant to be home...even if it has become so for others like you. People keep telling me to "just be your funny, laid-back California self and like-minded people here will be attracted to that". First of all, I don't think I am my funny, laid-back California self here. Period. Perhaps that "self" really is somehow woven into the fabric of that place. The sun, the fun, the flip flops, the can-do spirit? I don't know. But here, I'm Swiss, not Californian, and I fade into the grey backdrop and my spirit is distinctively can't-do. :gloomy:

So we're off to Portland! (See ya there, Eden??? :wink ) I've lived there, too, and like you...I loved it!

sorry for the bummer post, ladies. It's an attitude that has become my Swiss-winter hallmark....exceptionally warm winters included. :lol

[edenluna]

speaking of winters.... i thought i would be able to handle the Scottish winter after Portland.... nothing could be wetter!!! but, the long nights and the bitter wind off of the north sea is pure evil!!! especially after a 70 degree christmas in florida!

we live here because this is where i met my husband, and well i was tired of the states and the political situation there. plus my husband works for the family business, and it was alot easier for me to give up my job (high school teacher). i do love scotland, it is beautiful, and it isn't so much of a rat-race like the states can be... but the people can be cold at times, and more conservative than crunchy oregonians.

there is an American women's club in central scotland, and i have thought about joining, but i don't want to give up just yet on assimilating into the scottish life (sounds like startrek...)

[calynde]

there is an American women's club in central scotland, and i have thought about joining, but i don't want to give up just yet on assimilating into the scottish life (sounds like startrek...)

This MUST be possible in Scotland...heck, the Scottish people I know here in Switzerland are the crunchiest of all. :lol Like Elsanne mentioned, motherhood can open up lots of doors in this regard...there are always mothers with similar parenting styles. Have you tried any Scottish AP forums?

There is so much to be said for sticking it out...and it truly does get easier over time. As I wrote in a previous post, I want to go back home for just a while, for the perspective...and for a break. We may very well decide to come back here. Or not. But I feel too emotional and too "close" to my my own situtation to be able to see it clearly. All I really know is that I'm always a wreck when we come back here after holidays, so I'm ready to try something else. It's been 6 whole years after all! :dizzy:

good luck to you. :hug

[elsanne]

People keep telling me to "just be your funny, laid-back California self and like-minded people here will be attracted to that". First of all, I don't think I am my funny, laid-back California self here. Period. Perhaps that "self" really is somehow woven into the fabric of that place.

THIS is deeper than one would think: and SO TRUE!! When I speak Spanish, I am a different person, more reserved. I like my English self so much more, because it's more true and natural moi. It's something I work on, esp. when I come across really cool Mexican/Hispanic folk like myself. But yes, that self is somehow woven into the fabric of that place. Veeery well said.

[cajunmommy]

There is so much to be said for sticking it out...and it truly does get easier over time. As I wrote in a previous post, I want to go back home for just a while, for the perspective...and for a break. We may very well decide to come back here. Or not. But I feel too emotional and too "close" to my my own situtation to be able to see it clearly. All I really know is that I'm always a wreck when we come back here after holidays, so I'm ready to try something else. It's been 6 whole years after all! :dizzy:

good luck to you. :hug[/QUOTE]

I have been reading this post and I am very interested on your perspective. I am married to a Swiss man and we currently live in New Orleans which is near my hometown. New Orleans is in bad shape and we have had a hard time since Katrina. We are expecting our first child in March and plan on moving to Atlanta soon after. We have to get out of here due to the crime, our own personal depression, and a whole list of other issues that plague this city.

Anyway, my point is that we plan on moving to Switzerland in the future. I am appprehensive because I am from such a different place being a Cajun from South Louisiana. I worry about the coldness of the people, the language ( I do not speak German or French or Swiss German), losing my identity. We have lots of friends and family, so that is not a real concern. Moving to Atlanta is all part of this transition because I will be faced with these issues there also even though I have some family in Atlanta.

This is my first post by the way so hello everyone!!

[elsanne]

Hello cajunmommy! :hola:

[calynde]

Hi Cajunmommy,

I'll PM you. :wink

Elsanne,
I somehow ended up on your blog :W
and that airport story!!! OMG! wow. Restores one's faith in the universe somehow...

Incredible! Glad you got through it.

[elsanne]

H
I somehow ended up on your blog :W
and that airport story!!! OMG! wow. Restores one's faith in the universe somehow...

Incredible! Glad you got through it.

Tee hee! Well, the link is there for a reason: I aim to entertain, as well as vent. :wink

Can you believe that nightmare travel trip. I remember thinking, this is quite possibly the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. And that's saying something...definitely up there among the hardest.

[EdnaMarie]

Hi elsanne... I forgot to subscribe to this thread, so I didn't come back for awhile. Glad you like the siggy. I'm trying to think of something more meaningful, but it's not going over so well.

"the Scottish people I know here in Switzerland are the crunchiest of all."

Edenluna: The Scottish people I know are some of the friendliest, crunchiest, and most adventuresome people I know, period. They are not as open on the outside as Oregonians, but on the inside they are quite fascinating... I would love to go there. You're so lucky... I know the long nights can be tough, but the trick is to spend at least two hours out of door doing sport during the day. I used to do that in Russia- dress up warm and go skiing for two or three hours per day. It really makes the day longer.

[edenluna]

maybe all the crunchy Scots leave???? it seems they are everywhere but here! I just think i am in the wrong neck of the woods.... i have looked for AP or LLL near me, and there aren't any! the closest seems to be 2 hours away! that is insane!

any other suggestions for finding like minded Scots in Scotland??

[EdnaMarie]

Hm. Maybe they did... I've only met Scots overseas. Though there must be some still there. I don't have any advice but you do have my sympathy. Good luck!

[RomanGoddess]

Hi Everyone. Canadian mom here, married to French guy and living in Rome, Italy:loveeyes: .

Regarding choosing preschools, we are in the process of deciding whether to send our soon-to-be 3 year old to an Italian scuola materna (which is a lovely Montessori school) or the French ecole maternelle. Difficult decision as I love the Montessori method DH really wants our daughter to keep up with her French.

Ilaria, I took a look at all the pictures of your son's school and it is really a lovely place.

[Ilaria]

Grazie Caroline (beautiful name BTW :wink )!

[RomanGoddess]

Ilaria, I have been trying to PM you but for some reason, clicking on your name does not give me the option of sending you a private message, so I will ask you here. I am writing an article for an expat magazine regarding Montessori. Is it okay to use the photos you have put up on your site in the article (not the one's showing children's faces - just the ones showing what the classroom looks like)?

And by the way, one thing that really surprised me about the Italian public Montessori school is that it is compulsory full time, 0900 to 1600, Monday through Friday, even for the 3-year olds! This seems like a lot of school!!

[Ilaria]

You can email me at ilaria.keogh@gmailcom
Anyway, yes, you can usethe pics. The ones with my kid (s) too. You could always fuzz out other kids' faces. :)

[calynde]

And by the way, one thing that really surprised me about the Italian public Montessori school is that it is compulsory full time, 0900 to 1600, Monday through Friday, even for the 3-year olds! This seems like a lot of school!!

Wow, that seems insanely long for such small children. Here in Switzerland they can (voluntarily) start kindergarten at 4, 5 or 6 yrs old, and then it's only for 3 hours a day.

But I guess if that long of a school day is mandatory at that age, then Montessori is probably the way to go, as the kids are able to do as much or as little as they want without pressure. Good luck with your decision.

[Ilaria]

Now that I think about it, at my scuola materna we were there from 9 to 16 as well!

[RomanGoddess]

Wow, that seems insanely long for such small children. Here in Switzerland they can (voluntarily) start kindergarten at 4, 5 or 6 yrs old, and then it's only for 3 hours a day.

But I guess if that long of a school day is mandatory at that age, then Montessori is probably the way to go, as the kids are able to do as much or as little as they want without pressure. Good luck with your decision.

kindergarten itself is not compulsory at age 3 but if you want to send your child to the public kindergarten, then it is full day or nothing!! :dizzy: Keeping my daughter completely out of school is not an option. She would be bored stiff at home and we would drive each other crazy. She loves to be with other children. I just worry that 9 to 4 will be a bit much for her.

Now that I think about it, at my scuola materna we were there from 9 to 16 as well!

Yeah, the other Italian moms are telling me that this is standard and that the kids do fine, so I don't know. Maybe I am making too big a deal of it?

[Kimono]

I am an American in Canada--followed my husband here for an academic position. Before this, I was an American in Scotland for 3 years while DH got his PhD.

[ella-makes-3]

Hello everyone:wave
I have just read this thread, and cannot remember very much of it, but wanted to say hi.
I am a Brit, have been living for 12 years in the US ( Florida and Rhode Island) and previously before that lived in Holland, Greece, and Libya and of course UK.

I have 2 girls, 2 and 4 , who were both born in RI, and I hope to be going back to the UK for a holiday at Christmas. DH and the girls have never been, I have only been back once in my 12 years of living here, so I am sure it will be a shock to the system to say the least. I cannot wait to see what Dh thinks of it.
I am so up for moving to a different location( inside or outside the US) I have itchy feet. Right now San Miguel sounds good to me!

Today I had no less than 8 people stop and stare when I opened my mouth to speak. It is funny. They nearly always want to talk to you, ask where I am from, and most often say " Oh I love how you speak, I could just listen to you all day!" I think of DH when they say that!

Anyway, must dash, dinner to cook!

[EdnaMarie]

Hello, Ella! I bet when you get back to G.B. everyone says to you that you sound so American. That happened to me when I returned to the US after a long time working with Brits... my whole family said I had an accent. "You sound like Monty Python!" (Not even CLOSE ;-)

and most often say " Oh I love how you speak, I could just listen to you all day!" I think of DH when they say that!"

Teehee. People said that to me in England as well. Especially men. Have you seen 'Love, Actually'? The part where he goes to America to get a girl... and he brings back three? I was rolling on the floor.

[lulu1213]

hello all,

i'm american and currently living in france with DH who is french. we're ttc no.1 and i find it challenging living with what i guess is not really culture shock but an identity crisis. i've learned french in the almost four years i've been here, and am still struggling to make french friends and find work. one of the hardest things for me has been a feeling of starting over at zero, almost as if nothing i've done before seems to count. i've always been someone open and interested in other cultures (when i was comfortably living in my home country) and sometimes find it difficult to maintain the same curiosity now that i'm the outsider!

these two quotes really seem to put my subconcious thoughts/feelings about my experience into eloquent words...

The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

To have another language is to possess a second soul.
- Charlemagne

don't know if any of you caught a radio broadcast called "americans in paris" on the show "this american life". it was originally broadcast on npr or pri, and featured interviews with david sedaris (love that guy!) and a lawyer/writer named janet mcdonald. (i downloaded the show for free - am i allowed to post the link?) anyway, even if you don't live in paris (i don't), it was interesting as the interviewees did a great job of describing what it means to be an outsider, different, a foreigner, from a universal depth perspective.

[RomanGoddess]

lulu1213, once you manage to get pregnant, you absolutely must join this association:

www.messageparis.org

It is a must for any English-speaking parent in Paris! The members' website is indispensible and there are baby and toddler groups in every area of Paris. Plus you can get advice on everything from where to give birth to childcare to bilingual schools, etc.

[elsanne]

Hello everyone:wave

I am so up for moving to a different location( inside or outside the US) I have itchy feet. Right now San Miguel sounds good to me!


Anyway, must dash, dinner to cook!


Come on down!!!

and *tee hee* she said, "must dash"!!! Couldn't you just listen to her all day??? :lol


hello all,
sometimes find it difficult to maintain the same curiosity now that i'm the outsider!

these two quotes really seem to put my subconcious thoughts/feelings about my experience into eloquent words...

The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

To have another language is to possess a second soul.
- Charlemagne

.

You have some really profound points here. love it. Even when you love your adopted culture, you really never are part of it, entirely. There is always a part of you that is the "outsider", no matter how good your language or how long you've lived in/loved the place.

[EdnaMarie]

Lulu, I've lived in France and many other countries. France was by far the hardest country to make friends in and enjoy. It's really hard to make friends in France unless you're in Nice or something. (And if you're in Nice, well then it's worse than I thought :-D I know that every American thinks, oh, it's only the people who are not trying who can't make friends, or "I'm more cosmopolitan than that, I can fit in" but then you start to feel, bah, they are using extra slang ON PURPOSE to confuse me.

All my French friends were met while we all lived outside of the country, or are immigrants themselves. Oddly, though I lived there for a year altogether, I don't have a single friend that I met in that country. Though I do have friends from many other countries and I enjoy meeting new people. I really feel for you as that's the one country I wouldn't want to live as an expat long-term (I mean 6 months or more). Though I do love visiting.

Glad you found our board!

[lulu1213]

cmlp, thanks for the link. sadly, i don't live in paris. i live further south, in the alps. it does seem like a great organization and i bookmarked the page just for their links. really comprehensive! there is a french natural parenting organization where i live and three midwives who do homebirths in the area :twothumbs , and i'm looking forward to having more opportunities to meet kindred spirits with my childbearing adventure.

elsanne, you are so right about the language thing. i always thought i would get better reception once i was speaking better. those hopes got dashed pretty quickly! has anyone else noticed that sometimes it helps to actually pretend to need help with the language?

izobelle, your comments helped me to realize that maybe i've always been this way in that in i surrounded myself with people who had immigrated from other countries (met DH in the US); most of my friends from other races/cultures. i've always been drawn to "different" people, probably because i feel different myself. so i know i really "chose" this life.

but i do think it is particularly difficult here. certainly not as hard as some places. like japan for instance. i lived in nyc for a while and as they say, 'if you can make it there...' (although i wouldn't really call what i did there "making it", more like running to stand still, i loved the challenge and was able to at least make friends!).

i don't want to sound like i'm whining, because there are things about my life here that i love so very much. i guess i just find it comforting that there are others of you out there that know better than to have a romantic ideal about being an expat/immigrant.

and there is one thing i miss dearly about the US: smiles from strangers. :)

[EdnaMarie]

Ah, the Alps. :-D Savoie? Annecy, Chambery, perchance? Gorgeous but the people there wouldn't shit if they had a penny up their ass.

"i've always been drawn to "different" people, probably because i feel different myself."

This is the one thing about settling in a country and trying to make friends with the people there, if you are a born explorer... unlike as a traveller when you mainly meet adventurous people who are willing to hang out with someone who's different, as an immigrant you have to deal with "ordinary" people. That can be really tough for someone who's used to hanging out with other "others".

"like japan for instance"

But I hear in Japan at least you have your place as the foreigner, whereas in France there is no such special status.

[RomanGoddess]

lulu1213, you can join even if you do not live in ile de france. We live in Rome, Italy now and I have nevertheless retained my membership because I find that the members' website is such a great resource.

For example, if you have questions like, how does ecole maternelle work, how do you maintain your child's bilingualism, why do the French act in a certain way, the forum on the website is such as great help.

There are other members who live in Rouen, Brittany, Belgium, and Switzerland, as well. And there are lots of members (like me) who have move on from Paris to other parts of the world and who still are members of Message. There are at least 3 of us in Rome.

[lulu1213]

Ah, the Alps. :-D Savoie? Annecy, Chambery, perchance? Gorgeous but the people there wouldn't shit if they had a penny up their ass.

i'm attempting to learn how to quote just so i could say
:laugh:

actually i'm in rhone alpes (isère to be more exact but still somewhat vague.) and the people here would agree with you about savoie, but then i would have to laugh to myself because that would be ironic.

This is the one thing about settling in a country and trying to make friends with the people there, if you are a born explorer... unlike as a traveller when you mainly meet adventurous people who are willing to hang out with someone who's different, as an immigrant you have to deal with "ordinary" people. That can be really tough for someone who's used to hanging out with other "others".

amen, sister. like i can't even count the number of times someone has asked me if i eat mcdonald's hamburgers. let's just let that speak for itself!

But I hear in Japan at least you have your place as the foreigner, whereas in France there is no such special status.

oh, you are so right. i have a good friend who lived in japan and later the stans, and she had more trouble, culturally speaking, in japan. i think she simply couldn't stand being fetishized. i definitely have the feeling that it is not considered exotic or even interesting to be a foreigner living in france.

lulu1213, you can join even if you do not live in ile de france. We live in Rome, Italy now and I have nevertheless retained my membership because I find that the members' website is such a great resource.

thanks cmlp... i'm going to join up. hey you're in rome! my sister in law is doing ERASMUS in rome and we're planning a trip hopefully this spring before she leaves. i was in rome 13 years ago and fell in love with that city!

[EdnaMarie]

"and the people here would agree with you about savoie, but then i would have to laugh to myself because that would be ironic."

Teehee.

"like i can't even count the number of times someone has asked me if i eat mcdonald's hamburgers."

OOoooooh. Second-least-favorite expat American question, the first being, "Why aren't you fat?"

[lulu1213]

"like i can't even count the number of times someone has asked me if i eat mcdonald's hamburgers."

OOoooooh. Second-least-favorite expat American question, the first being, "Why aren't you fat?"

i never get that one. makes me wonder, perhaps they find me fat?!

hey, this could be fun.
everyone... what's YOUR least favo(u)rite expat question?

[EdnaMarie]

Well I don't know about you being fat. Haven't seen you. But I think you'd know it if you were, non? They also ask, "Why are all Americans fat?" To which I reply, "Oh, do you think I look fat?"

[RomanGoddess]

thanks cmlp... i'm going to join up. hey you're in rome! my sister in law is doing ERASMUS in rome and we're planning a trip hopefully this spring before she leaves. i was in rome 13 years ago and fell in love with that city!

Make sure you tell them that you would also like to receive the quarterly magazine!

[lulu1213]

Make sure you tell them that you would also like to receive the quarterly magazine!

got it. i'm also in paris every couple of months to visit in-laws, so i'm sure i could benefit from their events sometime down the road as well...

Well I don't know about you being fat. Haven't seen you. But I think you'd know it if you were, non? They also ask, "Why are all Americans fat?" To which I reply, "Oh, do you think I look fat?"

no, not fat here. but maybe i will be soon, cause all i'm doing lately is sitting at home eating macdo and voting for george bush :wink

hey i just checked out your blog, your life and work look very interesting and fulfilling! are you working for an NGO? i didn't get to look around much but thanks for clearing up that sheet ironing thing. makes sense to me now!

[calynde]

but i do think it is particularly difficult here. certainly not as hard as some places. like japan for instance. :)

or uh...SWITZERLAND!!!!!

it must be these darn Alps. :lol

[ella-makes-3]

Thanks for the warm welcome ladies!

My heart goes out to the poster living in France. I love the country and the culture/ lifestyle, but have heard that it is especially hard to get a warm welcome there.
Dh, when he traveled there backpacking, . said that when in Paris, he and his bauudy went to the Tourist Information booth , where the staff refused to speak English! Now I am all for an attempt to speak the language of the counrty that you are travelling, but Dh said this man was downright rude and said in English " We don't understand you!!"

[EdnaMarie]

The staff at the tourist booth refused to speak English? Hah. I've found that regarding language, learning the phrase, "Je suis desole, je ne parle pas Francais" automatically gets you a lot more sympathy than you'd have gotten before. My mother, before she ever said a word in English to anyone, used that. She said people were ultra-friendly. I think French people just want us to acknowledge that France is not an English or American colony.

Re: Switzerland: OMG. I've never been but the Swiss I know take pride in their "special mountain culture". All I know is that they do everything very slowly and carefully.

[calynde]

Re: Switzerland: OMG. I've never been but the Swiss I know take pride in their "special mountain culture". All I know is that they do everything very slowly and carefully.

There are jokes that many Swiss consider someone from a different mountain valley "foreign"...so that should give you an idea of what it's like for someone *truly* different. :lol

[lulu1213]

Thanks for the warm welcome ladies!

My heart goes out to the poster living in France. I love the country and the culture/ lifestyle, but have heard that it is especially hard to get a warm welcome there.

hi ella! thanks for writing. i see from a previous post that you have lived in greece. funny because i was going to mention that i found the people in mexico, greece, and turkey to be the most welcoming to travelers. of course living there is a different story, and i haven't been everywhere! how are you liking RI? i went to a beautiful beach there once! where are you from in GB?

Re: Switzerland: OMG. I've never been but the Swiss I know take pride in their "special mountain culture". All I know is that they do everything very slowly and carefully.

except driving while in france. that, they tend to do quite speedily and dangerously! :p

There are jokes that many Swiss consider someone from a different mountain valley "foreign"...so that should give you an idea of what it's like for someone *truly* different. :lol

oh calynde, i feel for you! the only french girlfriend i had moved to switzerland two years ago and she doesn't feel very welcome either. you would think, same language, neighboring country. but no. another friend lived in ticino with her young children last year and they struggled.

have any of you seen the film "stromboli" by roberto rossellini? ingrid bergman plays the flawed heroine. it's GREAT. magical.

[calynde]

. funny because i was going to mention that i found the people in mexico, greece, and turkey to be the most welcoming to travelers. of course living there is a different story, and i haven't been everywhere!

and even funnier is that we have always felt that way about France! :lol oh, dear...

and strangely enough everyone complains about how insanely fast the French and Germans drive. ;) :shrug

I've been here almost 6 years and it's so funny because I literally daydream constantly about places like Montana, Wyoming...just wide open American countryside....sort of Horse Whisperer, Bridges of Madison county sorts of landscapes. And I'm from the burbs in California...it's soooo weird, but I'm obsessed! :scratch Those open spaces just symbolize a certain freedom and dare I say it...space...that is completely lacking here. Like the polar opposite of these cramped, medieval towns that I find myself in now. The same cramped towns that drew me to this place initially, along with the history...which makes this place such a tough nut to crack. It's incredible. And complicated!

First European fantasies and now Wyoming.

Shall I start an offshoot thread for dillusional expat freaks now? :lol :tiptoe :bag: :lol

[elsanne]

*signing up for offshoot thread for delusional expat freaks*

[RomanGoddess]

I've been here almost 6 years and it's so funny because I literally daydream constantly about places like Montana, Wyoming...just wide open American countryside....sort of Horse Whisperer, Bridges of Madison county sorts of landscapes. And I'm from the burbs in California...it's soooo weird, but I'm obsessed! :scratch Those open spaces just symbolize a certain freedom and dare I say it...space...that is completely lacking here. Like the polar opposite of these cramped, medieval towns that I find myself in now. The same cramped towns that drew me to this place initially, along with the history...which makes this place such a tough nut to crack. It's incredible. And complicated!

First European fantasies and now Wyoming.

Shall I start an offshoot thread for dillusional expat freaks now? :lol :tiptoe :bag: :lol

Well, for years we have been planning a trip to Wyoming, Montana or Idaho to spend 2 weeks or more on a Dude Ranch. Anyone done this? As soon as are little one is 4 years old and (therefore old enough to go on a horse), we are THERE!

[calynde]

*signing up for offshoot thread for delusional expat freaks*

:bgbounce yay!

Well, for years we have been planning a trip to Wyoming, Montana or Idaho to spend 2 weeks or more on a Dude Ranch. Anyone done this? As soon as are little one is 4 years old and (therefore old enough to go on a horse), we are THERE!

you see? i'm not the only one! haha! wyyyyyyomin'. :lol

I've never been to any of those states, and didn't even know there were such things as "dude" ranches. how does a dude ranch differ from a regular ranch? do the animals have bells on their necks like here? :o I'm actually a city girl. my obsession is totally unfounded. i have some sort of unclassified tiny-country-syndrome. :dizzy:

[EdnaMarie]

Lulu: "hey i just checked out your blog, your life and work look very interesting and fulfilling! are you working for an NGO? i didn't get to look around much but thanks for clearing up that sheet ironing thing. makes sense to me now!"

Heh, we're working for baby nowadays.

[lulu1213]

I've been here almost 6 years and it's so funny because I literally daydream constantly about places like Montana, Wyoming...just wide open American countryside....sort of Horse Whisperer, Bridges of Madison county sorts of landscapes.

hey, can i come too? when i was in high school i had planned to do trail maintenance with a friend in the grand tetons through the sierra club. but she backed out at the last minute and my parents wouldn't let me go alone.:( i've always wanted to go there...
two years ago DH and i did a week backpacking in southeast utah. i know it's not exactly the same landscape, but still, that part of the U.S. is soooo beautiful. and relatively unpopulated. you should do it!

"I iron my jeans and eat halal hot dogs with pickled carrots and mayonnaise on them."

hmmmm, that actually sounds yummy! i think my siggy could be " i chop wood and wear boots for slippers."

i just wanted to say that i'm very excited, as i went out last night to a cloth diapering workshop. i talked to five whole people (all nice). it was good, and i'm just so happy this organization exists in my area. now i just have to get pregnant!

[EdnaMarie]

Chicken dogs aren't too bad- for hot dogs.

[RomanGoddess]

My dream: to be expatriated to Moscow or to St. Petersburg. I looooove Russia. But after a few years here in Rome, I think it will more likely be Jakarta. Anyone know anything about living in Jakarta?

[EdnaMarie]

Ohhh, I also wish we could go to St. Pete's. I know nothing about Jakarta. Good luck!

[ATD_Mom]

one of the hardest things for me has been a feeling of starting over at zero, almost as if nothing i've done before seems to count.
Just bopping in to commiserate on this point. I've been in my husband's country (Canada - in the only officially bi-lingual province) now for 13 months. Seven of those, I have been attempting to find a job - to no avail. My degree/experience are in Communications/Marketing; unfortunately all of the positions here in that field require French. So, no dice. When I try to apply for jobs that do not require French (clerical, call center), they tell me I'm overqualified, will get bored. We're too far in debt for me to start my own company again (or move).

So. Here I sit, in a suburban home I despise, alone, every day, wondering just what I have a brain and many talents for in the first place, and if I will ever again be allowed to use them. (I am trying to learn French, but it truly perplexes me.) I spend the majority of my time trying to come up with an escape plan.

Am I the only person who feels so absolutely trapped and alone in a foreign land? (This place is truly foreign, although it may not seem it on the surface.)

[RomanGoddess]

ATD Mom, I don't know where you are from but I can sympathize with you. I am Canadian and spent the first 27 years of my life in Canada but cannot imagine even in my wildest dreams ever living there again. I find the place just so so so isolating. YOu need a car to get absolutely everywhere and everyone stays in because it is cold outside. The whole city of Toronto is lined with underground tunnels because noone wants to walk outside between the months of September and May because of the weather. So you are in a deserted city if you walk outside. Canadians are super-friendly but lack passion about anything (sorry, fellow Canadians for the generalization but I do find that as a general cultural matter, this is true).

And of course, everything is cheap---for tourists. For anyone who actually has to live in Canada, it is impossible to save you and live from paycheck to paycheck.

And of course, I can imagine that in New Brunswick, it would be impossible to get any decent job if you were not fluent in French.

Believe me, it is not the fact that you are in a foreign land that is making you miserable. It is the fact that you are in a relatively small city (by international standards) in Canada. I felt trapped that way my whole childhood and adolescence.

Wish that I had some advice for you other than to MOVE (out of Canada, preferably) but I don't. Are there any groups you could join so as to be in greater contact with people?

[calynde]

(I am trying to learn French, but it truly perplexes me.) I spend the majority of my time trying to come up with an escape plan.

Am I the only person who feels so absolutely trapped and alone in a foreign land? (This place is truly foreign, although it may not seem it on the surface.)

*Trapped* pretty much sums it up! :gloomy:

And I hear you on the language issue...however where you are, one needs a "mere" 2 languages. Switzerland has 4 national languages, 3 of which are official. I live in a bilingual town (swiss german/french), so I need both of those languages plus English. And Swiss German isn't actually German by any stretch of the imagination...so if you count "High German", I need 3 languages besides my own to be employable. :dizzy: Basically, degree aside, teaching EFL is my only option. I've done it....no thanks. :o

But all of this aside, I think the pp is right. There are millions of places I would feel isolated in that are within US borders, too. The language thing only adds another dimension.

[elsanne]

ATD mom, I just want to give you a hug. Sounds very depressing, when you need to be most alive...gestating!!! And that is what I REALLY want to say---YAAAAY AND CONGRATULATIONS!!! I remember exchanging pm's when you were still thinking about it...conceiving...will check the links in your sig later.

[lulu1213]

hi ATD mom,

if you'd like recommendations for books, cd ROMS, websites, etc. for learning french please feel free to pm me! i taught myself french and i agree it's perplexing, but it can also be very rewarding to learn another language as an adult.
for work, i'm in the same situation. i had a job teaching english (as calynde put it, no thanks :o ) and quit to focus on improving my french and finding a job in my field. so i passed a state board exam last may and have been actively looking for work since. i've never had trouble finding a job in my life so it's a bit frustrating!

i looked at your pottery link - wow! beautiful work. i'm wondering if you could somehow use your talents there in a new setting. could you teach pottery at the community center, or maybe to children in your home?

and congratulations!

[edenluna]

good luck on learning french! i have been trying just simple phrases for a trip to paris at the end on the month, and it seems so strange to me. i speak spanish and i think EVERY LETTER should be heard, so my french is horrendous!!

my expat dream: New Zealand!!!! haven't been there, but from friends that have gone and pictures, i know i will love it!!!!

and montana and wyoming are GORGEOUS!!!!! i'll meet you all there anytime! Kalispell or Missoula Montana would be great places to live! and on a cross country road trip, a friend and I hit a few deer outside of Cody, Wyoming so we were stuck there for a few days and it was great too.. the people were very nice.

[ATD_Mom]

Oh, mamas.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I had a very bad day yesterday, and it looks like I put my pity-party right out there, in the middle of your chatty thread. I apologize! But I so appreciate your kindness.

cmlp - You took so many words right out of my heart. If I were to describe the general feeling here, it would be one simple word: bland. It's as though an exclamation point does not exist in anyone's personal energy. And no one hugs. It's so bizarre. I am a constant, belly-to-belly hugger, of anyone I meet. Those are not welcome here - in fact, some people don't even understand what I'm doing when I raise my arms. At first I tried to convert the general population, but it was not accepted at all. So I gave up!

Everyone always tells me, "Wherever you go, there you are." But truly I think that is a load of rubbish. I lost "me" the second I moved here.

Anyway. Yes cmlp, our location is not a good one! Cost of living is approximately 4x higher than where I just came from, my hometown in the Midwest. We go deeper into debt every month, from buying such frivolous consumer items such as furnace fuel and food.

calynde - What a reality check! I keep jokingly telling DH we should move to French-speaking Switzerland. At least he could get a decent job, and I could half understand what is going on (I can understand bits of German). I never stopped to realize it would be even worse there, with so many official languages. So what are you doing to keep yourself busy and sane?

Actually, that's a question for all of you - if you can't work where you are, what are you doing to keep yourself alive?

elsanne - Thank you for the congrats! I had to stop by your blog and refresh myself on the craziness/dreaminess that is your life. You convinced both DH and I we need to buy a stroller, that's for sure. As I sat around crying for hours yesterday, I started to worry about the babe in my belly. Is s/he receiving all of these depressive brain chemicals in unhealthy amounts? Or, less scientifically, will all of this negative energy transfer to him/her? I feel so badly about feeling badly right now!

lulu1213 - Yes, I would love recs for books/CDs, etc. Classes are $ out of our reach, and my husband is unable to teach me what he knows. So I'd love to be pointed in the right direction for self-directed learning. And thanks for the pottery compliment. It's been more than a year since I've touched clay - those pictures don't even seem to be mine anymore!

So, here's a question for y'all. It's sort of a moral dilemma. I am expecting a phone call today from a bank call centre. If I am offered the job, I would be accepting it without telling them I am PG. I'd only be working for them for 5 months total. But then, they have 800 employees in this one (very large and very dark) room; I'm sure their turnover rate is quite high. Maybe they wouldn't mind. This option would net us about $15K over the next 1.5 yrs, because I would get maternity pay from the gov't. It would be depressing as all get-out, but only for five months.

Yesterday we figured out a way to squeeze a pottery studio into our crammed basement and garage, for very little money. This realization brightened up my whole self - I'm still glowing! I've been sketching pottery constantly! Obviously, I'd be a billion times happier doing this work, but I could only make about $4K this year, and maybe the same next.

Did I mention the only reason we're trapped here is debt, and if we could pay it off we could escape? That fact makes the deathly call centre look like an easy five-month sentence.

What would y'all do? My apologies for the book.

[RomanGoddess]

Take the job at the call centre! Apart from the extra money, it will give you something to do everyday.

Regarding Switzerland, I can assure you that there are many many French speaking swiss people, in Geneva, for example, who do not speak either German or Italian and they do just fine. The problem with Switzerland would not be so much knowing more than just French but getting the authorization to work in Switzerland in the first place. And I imagine this would be easier if your husband were working for an international organization there or for a very large bank (but the banking is mostly centred around Zurich and you would likely have to speak German there).

Another thing, in southern Europe, people would also think you were very weird for hugging them but if you could manage to greet your friends with a kiss on each cheek instead, that would be just fine cause that's what everyone does here.:lol

Can your DH not get a better-paying job elsewhere (i.e. in another city and maybe even another country) in order to get out of debt? I was in huge debt in Toronto. Best thing I ever did was forget about pursuing a career in Canada , locate a headhunter in New York City, get a job there, and MOVE. Once I started working in NYC, I was able to pay all credit card debt almost immediately. A couple of years later, I had saved up enough money to write one big fat check to pay off all my student loans. And I am one of those Canadians who LOVED living in the United States (or at least NYC) and who now loves living in Europe.

[EdnaMarie]

ATD- If they ask you, tell them. If they ask about your future plans, be honest. But no need to tell them if they don't ask.

[calynde]

calynde - What a reality check! I keep jokingly telling DH we should move to French-speaking Switzerland. At least he could get a decent job, and I could half understand what is going on (I can understand bits of German). I never stopped to realize it would be even worse there, with so many official languages. So what are you doing to keep yourself busy and sane?

Actually, that's a question for all of you - if you can't work where you are, what are you doing to keep yourself alive?



Well, my 4 year old does a pretty good job of keeping me busy. :lol And so does the language learning!

I worked a couple of years teaching EFL...it was ok for some extra money but it was nothing I wanted to do permanently.

Salaries are HIGH in Switzerland...but the cost of living is also just about the highest in the world!! It is possible to get work without knowing both French and German (in addition to English), but basically if anyone else applying has both (or several...as so many Swiss do) they are likely to get the job over you, ya know? I live in a bilingual town, so it's pretty critical here...even for cashier/restaurant type jobs.

How do I stay sane? I'm not sure I am right now :lol I'm going back to California for the first time in 6 years next month!! I'm hoping it will give me a bit of perspective.

[lulu1213]

lulu1213 - Yes, I would love recs for books/CDs, etc. Classes are $ out of our reach, and my husband is unable to teach me what he knows. So I'd love to be pointed in the right direction for self-directed learning. And thanks for the pottery compliment. It's been more than a year since I've touched clay - those pictures don't even seem to be mine anymore!

hi ATD mom

i'm pm-ing you with the french stuff...

[lulu1213]

Does anyone know of a good book/other resource for developing cross-cultural communication skills?

thanks in advance...:tiphat:

[Ilaria]

Caroline, a friend just moved to Jakarta from here (Metro Manila) and she likes it fine. Personally, I love SE Asia, and am notready to leave at all...we just got back from a trip to New Zealand and though we loved it, we were shocked at the prices. I can get 1 hr massage for $5 here and there it was $30 for a 1 minute 'zorb' down a hill!!

[Ilaria]

my expat dream: New Zealand!!!! haven't been there, but from friends that have gone and pictures, i know i will love it!!!!


It very similar to Scotland! :) (And it rained non stop the first 3 days we were there, much like when we went to Scotland!) We just got back and it was great (pix in photo album) :p

[RomanGoddess]

Just got back from a weekend in Paris, where we used to live. Have to say, love visiting there and I will be happy if we get transferred back there after Rome, although Rome also has its pluses. Italian women are SOOOO much easier to get along with than French women (the Parisien ones, anyway), that's for sure!

Ilaria, thanks for the insight on living in Indonesia.

[sapphos]

We're now splitting our time between the States and Buenos Aires. Hubby is French, daughter was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina 12/26/06 and now we're in North Carolina. I've kept a pretty extensive blog on living in Argentina and wrote an ebook about relocating there. I've also talked about having a baby in a foreign country. Moving to Argentina blog
(http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com)
Anybody living in France?

Laura

[elsanne]

Sapphos, Buenos Aires. That is all I have to say.

*sigh* I dance Argentine Tango and did a pilgrimage to Tango Mecca pre-children. *sigh*


That is all.

[elsanne]

hey just had an idea---what a cool thread/group to do a postcard exchange with! anybody in?

[RomanGoddess]

Anybody living in France?

Laura

We were, until last August. We lived in Paris and we still go back for a weekend every now and then.

[lulu1213]

We're now splitting our time between the States and Buenos Aires. Hubby is French, daughter was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina 12/26/06 and now we're in North Carolina. I've kept a pretty extensive blog on living in Argentina and wrote an ebook about relocating there. I've also talked about having a baby in a foreign country. Moving to Argentina blog
(http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com)
Anybody living in France?

Laura

hi laura, :hola:
i'm married to a frenchie too... we're living in france.

hey just had an idea---what a cool thread/group to do a postcard exchange with! anybody in?

sure! why not?! count me in.

[sapphos]

Hey, where are you in France?

[lulu1213]

hi laura-
i hope you don't mind i pm ed you my response...

[calynde]

hey just had an idea---what a cool thread/group to do a postcard exchange with! anybody in?

Sure, I'm in. Would you prefer breathtaking Alpine vistas or cows with bells? :lol

[Ilaria]

I'm in too!
Would you prefer tropical beaches or kids begging while sniffing glue at intersections?! :gloomy:

Sorry, it's been a rough morning. :(

[elsanne]

Yay! Okay, anyone who is interested pm me with your mailing address, last day to sign up will be next Friday...mail out date in two weeks or so, we'll see how it goes...

Ilaria, sorry it's been a rough one. Kids sniffing glue in intersections, egads.

[Ersbett]

Hi!

I'm Spaniard, I've lived in Denmark and I'm now in Arizona.
My DD's where born in Copenhagen

DH is Dane, he was born in Denmark and raised around Buenos Aires and Cordoba, Stockholm and Arizona and he finally settled here.

I like living here though I will like to go back to Europe(any country will be fine unleast is in Europe)

Something that I don't like is that we're landlocked, and the nearest beach is 5 hours away from here in Mexico, I was used to go to the beach everyday.:(

[lulu1213]

hi ersbett!
i've been to copenhagen - LOVED it. especially the fact that no place in denmark is more than 40 km from the coast. and i've seen a tiny bit of spain - san sebastian. beautiful!