Support for Parents of Gifted Children, #3

[lckrause]

Just starting a new thread since several people have asked for one over the past couple weeks. I guess 26 pages is long enough. :LOL

Hope it's okay, eilonwy. :shy

[lckrause]

:W

So, what are your kids up to right now? Hollis (9) is doing algebra, geometry, Latin, Japanese, chemistry, and now is asking me to find him stuff about genetics. He says he wants to be a baseball player and a genetics researcher when he grows up but that he's "not sure how the schedules will work together." Hehehe. Sorry, that cracks me up.

Nan (6) has just recently learned to read. Funny how she went from not being able to sound out "it" to a week later being able to read whole easy readers by herself. Methinks the lass was engaging in some trickery. ;) She stopped drawing Powerpuff Girls incessantly and lately has been trying to copy the dolls out of the American Girls catalog instead. And cats. She keeps drawing cats.

Let's have some brags to get the new thread started. :D

[Laughingmommy]

I've recently noticed very different drawing styles between #1 and #2 (at the same age - 2.5). #2 is obsessed with faces, all kinds of faces. She draws 2 circles for eyes, sometimes a nose, a mouth (sometimes with teeth), a big circle for a face. She sometimes goes over her lines once or more. Sometimes she draws dresses or hair or crowns or shoes or whatever. But generally, it's pretty conventional. There's a round face, identifiable features. Standard drawing. #1, at the same age, didn't draw like that at all. She was really abstract. Sometimes she would just draw some weird shapes and call it her. Sometimes she would tell us that what we're seeing are eyelashes (but no eyes), belly button and umbilical cord (but no arms or legs). You know, just really strange representations of herself and others (people and objects).

My concern is that lately we've been watching quite a bit of TV. #1 did not watch so much, and certainly not cartoons. I'm wondering how much of #2's style of drawing is influenced by the images she's received about what a drawing is supposed to look like. I don't have a judgement about it, I just wonder. It would affect how I might proceed with cutting TV out of our lives again. Have you observed similar things? Or just the opposite?

Thanks,

[eilonwy]

Just starting a new thread since several people have asked for one over the past couple weeks. I guess 26 pages is long enough.

Hope it's okay, eilonwy.

It's all good to me! :thumb It's just that of my half dozen odd "regular" threads, I've started the most recent threads of 5 of them; I spent a bit of time encouraging others to do it for the new year, and even posted linking instructions for the old threads. :LOL And I haven't started any of the newest threads. :thumb

BeanBean is 26 months old now and doing some pretty cool stuff. He's really interested in percentages (I think Mike taught him the % sign), and knows that 100% means something is finished/whole/complete, and that 50% means it's not. He's been playing with words a lot, and tells me all about nouns ("ChibiChibi is a noun, television is a noun, BeanBean is a noun, mamma is a noun, a noun is the name of a person, place, thing, idea!").

He's been drawing a lot with his cousin. She draws people and flowers and houses and trees, and he draws triangles and lines and circles. He doesn't make a scribble and say "this is mamma" but he does scribble a bit and then say "Mamma, I made this for you. See here? It's a triangle! And this is a mess!" :innocent :LOL It's adorable, really. He's completely obsessed with triangles. I understand; I was too at his age. He knows circle, square, rectangle, octagon, hexagon and star as well (occasionally squares and rectangles get mixed up) but the triangle holds a special place in his little heart. :LOL

We're still fighting sleep issues (it's 2:40 AM; he went to sleep less than half an hour ago), especially because when he wants to be awake, he tends to make noise and kick his sister. :( Tonight, we're at the IL's again; he's got lots of very loud toys here. He turned off his Boom Box because "It's too loud for BooBah. She's sleeping. Shhhhhh." :love So he is trying, and he's learning compassion, sharing, and all sorts of social things. I'm much more impressed by that than any of the "academic" things he does, but all anyone else can talk about is how well he speaks of late. :shrug I think it's much more noteworthy that he understands that when someone is scared or upset, they need a hug and that when his sister's asleep she needs quiet. And yesterday, when Mike came home from work, BeanBean wrapped his arms around his neck and said "I missed you, daddy. I love you so much!":love He likes to play with names, too; "Mamma loves BooBah. BooBah loves Mamma. BooBah loves Eli. Eli loves Daddy." He'll do this for half an hour, with his cousins' and aunts' and grandparents' names. :LOL

Miss BooBah is 6.5 months old and has been crawling long enough that she fears edges now and will not tumble off the edge of a bed or anything else while she's awake; instead, she'll shriek for attention. :thumb Next step: Learning to turn around and slide off legs first. She's actually done it a few times, but I'm not certain that it's deliberate at this point. She's been saying "I love you" a lot, she's blowing fewer raspberries than she was and babbling a lot more, with actual words thrown in for good measure. BooBah calls her brother by name and calls her cousin the same thing every time but it sounds nothing like her name...:shrug She also says "mamma," "dadda," "hi," "yeah," and "keeee paaa" (clean pants! :LOL) and is still thrilled beyond reason when people understand her. She's definately gaining weight, and vomiting much less since she started taking Pepcid and eating rice cereal. I'd like to start her on some veggies, but I'm hesitant because veggies can cause gas (even the pureed ones) and I don't want her to associate any more pain with eating. :( So I'm holding off for a little while longer.

I'm still a little concerned about BooBah "passing" BeanBean, but less than I was now that he's really talking and taking off. He had more actual words than she does, but she communicates more effectively with other people than he did. It's difficult to explain, and I don't know if it's actually her or just that she's a girl and people are more likely to assume that a girl is expressing herself than a boy...? Then again, she wears more boy clothes than girl clothes. :shrug I don't know. At any rate, they love each other dearly, and that's a huge step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. :thumb

[LunaMom]

Yup, 26 pages was too long!!! :)

My daughter is currently in kindergarten and reading what I would call early chapter books - Amber Brown Is Not A Crayon is the one she's reading now. Her decoding skills are pretty good but I've noticed that these days she is just using context clues to figure out words that might stump her if they were shown to her on a list. She gets them immediately, though, without any discernable break in the flow of her reading. It's really weird, because she'll read a word like "Inappropriately" and then miss a much easier, shorter word. She tends to read very fast and skip over small words such as "that," "then," or "and." This is why i like to ask her to read aloud to me a little bit almost every day. Although, even with the careless errors she makes, she can comprehend things just fine - she'll silently read an article about whales in Ranger Rick magazine and tell me all about what she learned with no problem.

I'm starting to wonder if I should start doing math with her. The "math" they do in school is very, very basic so far and I know she is capable of more and would enjoy it. I figure that math is something that requires more direct instruction than reading, because doing paper-and-pencil math is not part of a six-year-old's daily life the way books are (at least in a literate family - sadly I see way too many kids who do not get read to or taken to the library at all. :( ). Part of me wonders if going out and getting a math workbook is a bad idea - does it make me a "pushy" parent? I just keep thinking of the cheetah in the cage.

And that brings me to the fact that this coming week I will be meeting with her teacher and her "enrichment" teacher to discuss my concern that 99% of the work she does at school is just busywork for her, and that I'm worried that if she is not challenged she will develop the same lax attitude towards schoolwork that I did as a child. That attitude got me into trouble when i applied to and was accepted at a high school for gifted students and suddenly the work was harder and I had no idea how to study. I know she's only in kindergarten and maybe I should sit tight till first grade, but I do want to just bring up my concerns. I feel pressured to do a lot of stuff with her at home to keep her stimulated intellectually and I would like them to maybe pick up some of that - I mean, the kid's in school six hours a day five days a week, and I want her to just have the rest of her time to play! I don't want to make her spend more time doing "school stuff," KWIM? She's six! It might be as simple as asking the teacher to give her harder worksheets for homework. We'll see what happens.

Anyway, sorry if I was long winded - this new thread caught me at a time that my daughter's education is really weighing on my mind. I'm glad to have found this group here!!! I love reading about everyone else's kids! :)

[lckrause]

Hey Lunamom, have you thought about doing some basic math with legos or blocks? When Hollis was little he loved making patterns and doing adding and subtracting with his duplos. He would make me "quiz" him for like 2 hours at a time. Gee, I don't know why I was exhausted back then. ;) Anyway, just a suggestion to see if she's interested before you spend money on workbooks (which he also loved).

[teachma]

darlindeliasmom, unfortunately, a Special Education label such as "learning disabled" requires not only an observable and testable discrepancy in ability vs. achievement, but also that the student is functioning below grade level. Yes, another way in which the schools sometimes shortchange gifted students. So, if you know that your daughter is performing at the same level as the average 4th grader (which is what "at the 4th grade level" translates to) in most areas but not all, the discrepancy between her strong and relatively weak subjects should be enough to indicate a problem, but even her weaknesses put her on par with the average student in her grade, so she is supposedly not struggling in any way that would impact her functioning as a second grader. I know all of this as I have been a 2nd grade public school teacher for 7 years and additionally, I have two siblings who were labeled "gifted" as children. (I happen to have missed the IQ cut off by a couple of points, so I can relate to where you are with your daughter right now!)

I browse in this forum as both an interested educator and the mom of a probably-gifted four year old ds. I also have a 9 month old who's already talking but even more interestingly to me, she has made up a bunch of her own signs (I didn't try to ever teach her any, since i figured ds talked at 6 months and never needed them so she wouldn't either) to communicate everything she needs! Ds's area of giftedness (if, indeed, he is) would be his verbal communication skills, including an extensive vocabulary, and his reasoning ability. He is also incredibly observant, plus he remembers, verbatim, almost everything he hears, including stories word for word after hearning them just one time! And, he remembers them months and months later. He's also just regular "smart" with other things: has learned to read phonetically, can reason out sums and differences, likes to make patterns out of everything.

I enjoy reading the stories others post because I love clever kids and the things they say and do!!

[LeftField]

Hi. I read the last thread with great interest. I'm not sure if I belong here or not. We've been scratching our heads over ds1 since he was about 12 months. Back then, he was really into matching; he would only carry matching toys. He had been flipping through books on his own since 7 months, but I never thought that was unusual.

At 18 months, a lot of things happened at once. He showed us that he knew letters and numbers by sight. I had inadvertently taught him the letters when he took baths. He didn't speak, the ped was concerned, so I tested him with foam tub letters to see if he could actually make the letter sounds (to see if it was hearing or muscle issues or whatnot). I didn't realize that he memorized them. We could take a Hallmark card, flip over to the back and ask him to point out the, "j" and he would. When he got a box of puzzles for Christmas at 19 months, we learned that he had also learned numbers somehow and most of his shapes. He was a puzzle guy for a really long time. He maxed out at 100 piece puzzles at newly 3, where he lost interest (too many pieces; overwhelming it seemed).

Once he started speaking at 22 months, he caught up with speech very quickly. One day, when he was 2 1/2, he excitedly pulled me into the bedroom, saying, "ah uh zoy! ah uh zoy!". We have an inset bedroom ceiling and there, indeed, trapezoid shapes on each side of the inset rectangle. In the 2s, he knew some sight-words. He was also conspicously different with age-mates, mostly in his extreme caution and introversion. He was never one to run around and make happy noises with the other kids. He was happy, but he would rather watch other children play. That really worried me for a long time.

Now that we're in the 3s, he truly seems like the average boy. He's discovering the joys of jumping and climbing, finally. He doesn't really "wow" us anymore. Sometimes, it happens. One night in art class when he was a couple of months past 3, when the teacher said, "turn over the paper and write your child's name", he wrote his name. We had no idea he could form letters! We ended up pulling him from that class, because, among other things, the teacher called him out for writing, saying he had it "easy" for having a nickname with only three letters. He went through a spurt of copying words from books, but he doesn't do that much anymore.

He does love to draw, although he's winding down from that right now (when something catches his interest, he lives and breathes it). His drawings seemed very detailed: trucks inside trucks inside trucks with pictures of trucks on them. He also copied toys for a while, like would draw a toy in front of him, making a decent-looking replica.

He seems to live in a fantasy world a lot, talking to his toys, talking on behalf of his toys in funny voices, describing detailed events that are happening with the toys...I'm assuming that this is a 3yo thing though.

I don't know. :shrug We're homeschooling. He'll never be tested, likely. He doesn't seem gifted to me these days. I once sought out this type of thread or board, because of the sadness and difficulty I had with him being so obviously different. This has not been an easy path for us. He's also very sensitive and that's not easy either, especially with a boy. It's nice to have support or talk to other people who have had some of the same issues as us. I guess I feel like I need to justify my interest in this topic. I'm coming from an angle of finding support for the quirks and stuff. But I'm not sure if he really is gifted. Different, yes. Learning to blend a bit, yes.

I also have a 14 month old. We have no idea about him. He spends a lot of time "reading" right now, making very loud animal sounds as he flips the pages and finds animal pictures. He also likes to hum songs, parts of songs I mean. He doesn't have any quirks that show up right now and I'm more relaxed with this child anyway. I have no idea if he is gifted.

At any rate, that's my background. Whether or not my kids are gifted, this subject interests me. I hope it's Ok if I stick around and read.

[eilonwy]

A conversation with BeanBean:

"Mamma, I want nursies."

"I'd rather not, how about some eggs?"

"I don't want eggs, no thank you. I want nursies."

"How about some cheese?"

"Cheese is yucky, no thank you! I want nursies."

"Would you like some french toast?"

"French toast? That's yucky!! May I please have some nursies?"

"Ask me for anything you like, except for nursies."

"May I please have the other side?" :LOL (Other side meaning, of course, the other breast.)

[Queen of Cups]

Hi, ladies! I'm subscribing so I can keep up with everyone!

By way of introduction, I have a 7.5 month old who I'm guessing is quite gifted. He's very expressive, has been signing for "mommy-milk" occasionally since he was 3 months and said his first word this week ("mama"). He figures out toys quickly, follows our directions easily, is already playing with shape sorters and learning how to turn pages in books when we read, and is EXTREMELY social/expressive. He also has an long attention span, I guess since I'm not around other babies I didn't realize that was unusual. He'll happily sit and play with a toy for 20-30 minutes on his own, figuring it out, moving it around, exploring it with hands/mouth. DH and I met at a school for the gifted, so everyone is expecting great things of our kids, which sometimes bothers me, but only because I don't want my kids to feel pressured.

My cute story of the week is that my sister (who lives with us) taught Killy to say, "Blub, blub, blub!" which has no meaning but is apparently really fun to say! We were at the library where she works and she was telling some co-workers how she'd taught him to say it and he heard her telling them and popped up right on que with it - everyone just cracked up! He only says Mama when he's upset and I'm not comforting him fast enough, though - not on que. Honestly, I think he's been saying it for awhile, but I was just chalking it up to my imagination - but my sis and DH heard it this time and convinced me it was real!

Edited to add: Okay, apparently he is saying Mama on que! Just now, DH was playing with him on the floor and said, "If you say "mama" she'll come pick you up right now." And DS immediately said it!

[lexbeach]

Hello!

I know this is a support thread, so I hope you guys don't mind my popping in here to ask a question for a friend of mine (who doesn't have a computer, or she'd be asking it herself!). The other day I told my friend that I think her son is gifted, and she agreed that she's been thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say anything since she didn't want to sound like she was bragging. She's actually pretty embarrassed about it. She's also worried because they were just planning to send him to regular public school, and now she thinks that it won't be a good place for him.

Her son, J. turned two at the end of August. He started talking right around 12 months, but unlike most kids who start with a word or two, he was like just suddenly TALKING. In sentences and everything. He repeated everything, but would also come up with his own things to say. We thought this was pretty remarkable, but not entirely out of the ordinary. What first really struck ME about him, was when he was about 18 months old, and after not seeing him for a few months (winter illnesses) we ran into him and his dad in a store. J. immediately remembered my sons' names and who was who (I have twins, and most adults don't remember who's who). I thought, "wow! He really has quite a memory!" And, again, was blown away by hearing such a tiny person speak in such an adult way. Every word is so clearly pronounced, his mom says he's never said a word incorrectly.

Things really started to seem different this past summer. J. and his family moved into a new house that is adjacent to an elementary school. In the school playground, there is a huge map of the US painted on the cement, with all of the states and capitals labeled. J. got a huge kick out of running from state to state and asking where he was standing, and then announcing "I'm in Texas!" or whatever. A couple of weeks after they had started playing at the playground, J. started randomly telling people the names of the states and their capitals. It turned out that he knew them all. Just after he turned two, his parents showed him a blank map of the US just for fun, and realized that he could point to each state by name and say its capital. These are things his parents do not have memorized, so they were totally blown away. Then, one day, J. pointed to a puddle on the ground and said, "that puddle looks like Florida." It did! J's parents realized that he could recognize the outlines of all of the states too. At this point, J. became obsessed with the atlas, and now knows all of the countries by name, location, and shape. I cannot imagine knowing all that stuff myself!

Obviously, this is a gifted child, right? The question J's mom has is if there is anything she should be doing other than just caring for him as she would any two-year-old boy. Also, she wonders if she should have him tested for autism. She only knew of autistic people having this sort of memory. J. doesn't strike me as autistic at all, but I am not an expert. The only thing that I would say seems a little "off" socially is that sometimes he does speak in a kind of a monotone, so very clearly pronouncing each word.

Thanks so much for any replies!

Lex

[allgirls]

My little Sophia is 18 mos...and cute as a button...

She is talking quite well...really seems to be having a language burst...nice little sentences..she knows her colors, shapes, most of the alphabet and some numbers. She points to words as we are reading..she is fascinated by words...all pretty cool but not the thing that amazes me the most.

She is absolutely amazing to watch...she will take puppets and stuffed toys and create a whole little imagination world...they will all talk, pretty much different voices...they dance with each other, kiss each other, hug each other...she does the voices...some of the language is real..some is gibberish...usually I can tell if a puppet is upset...she will have a puppet cry then have another puppet console it...it's absolutely unbelievable to watch...she has been doing this since around a year but it's just getting more and more complex as she gets older...

She will also play with her baby doll, fake food and dishes...

I notice she will also make her own decisions...take things on her own to the garbage...then realise she forgot to close the door...go "oh, door" and turn around and go back and close it...geez...can she teach my 14 year old to do this now :eyesroll

Anyway...instinct tells me she's gifted and instinct doesn't usually fail me much...

I love reading about your children...thanks for sharing!

[Evergreen]

lex- I don't really know much about autism, but he sounds gifted to me. Kids are interested in different things. My daughter could care less about numbers, for example, she likes counting but adding and subtracting are not her bag. I hated it too as a kid.

She loves letters and animals, though! She will be two on the 20th and is starting to form words including "MOM" "DYLAN" "CAT" "DOG" "ANDIE" and "FISH".

Which reminds me. We have only showed her capital letters, should we stick with that for a while or introduce lower case as well?

As far as animals goes she knows them all! She will tell you classifications also. Like

"All the primates in the world!"

"What Dylan?"

"I want to know all the primates in the world."

"Okay..."

"People, Gorillas, Monkeys, Orangatans, Chimpanzees, what else, tell me all the primates in the world." :LOL it is very sweet! I jsut wish I knew all the primates in the world so I could teach them to her!

OK subscribing now!

[darlindeliasmom]

thanks, teachma, for your input. The IEP meeting was a lot like knocking my head against the wall, just because you know, as parents, you don't have the language for this. And like a lot of moms here, what I have are anecdotes that sure as hell seem significant indicators that she is creative analytical, comprehends beyond her age...she's also sensitive, resistant to change, and perfectionistic. Not to mention explosive. School has been a little hard for her socially, 'cause she has a hard time budging from her ideas.

Anyway, to get with the program...what dd, 8 is doing now, besides reading reading reading, is completely beating the pants off me in Monopoly and Lord of the Rings Trivial Pursuit. I, it turns out, am truly a miserable Monopoly player. She's off her chess craze, which we were heavy into last year, and is in a knitting phase. And songwriting. I really should get her a taperecorder...because these are just precious. Songs like, "You're not my friend anymore" or "When I grow up, I'm going to be a fairy...unless I'm president" They go on and on. She actually has a great sense of melody, and is trying to teach herself the piano. We are praying for snow, because she has an experiment she wants to do assessing the optimum weight to put on her sled to maximize speed on her fav sledding hill...she's been talking about it since last winter. I hope that we can pull it off and find some meaningful lesson...she wants to present her findings at her school science fair.
This is part of her nature, that she designs experiments on her own and learns stuff about matter, time, energy. It is so unlike my dh and I..I wonder if it comes from her religious watching of the PBS show zoom when she was younger, or if it is just being pulled out of hercsomehow. KWIM? That's what I think gitedness is...these kids just are drawn to learn, and suck up everything in their environment.

Oh, and she will be 8 on Tuesday and her birthday party is tomorrow...send a good thought my way...every b-day has been, um, challenging, but I never learn, and keep having these darn parties. Meltdown #8 on the way!!

[tuffykenwell]

Which reminds me. We have only showed her capital letters, should we stick with that for a while or introduce lower case as well?


I wondered about this as well but DS seems to be figuring it out on his own. He is 32 months now and he can read many words that are in all capitals (his own name, Niamh's name and Canada for some reason LOL!) and he is starting to read other words as well whether they are in capitals or not (ice cream, police, milk etc etc).

For some reason if he can't figure out the word if he spells it out loud then he can figure it out. Like with Canada for example...DH has a shirt that says Canada and he asked what it said and we told him it was Canada and asked him what the letters were so he recited them. Then the next time he saw the word written out he couldn't remember what it was so I asked him to recite the letters and then he knew the word. Is that fairly common when learning to read?

It's hard at this point to figure out when he is actually reading and when he is reciting from memory because he has memorized more than half of his rather large book collection as well as many of the library books we bring home. When he is reciting he gets VERY frustrated when he gets to a page and cannot remember the words that are on it...and approximating the story is not good enough so he freaks out. He has been letting us help a bit but if we "help" too much he will pick up the book and throw it (DH says he has my temper but I think that temper and two year olds go hand in hand right ;)

I am getting a bit frustrated with people expecting him to act older because of his vocabulary. There seems to be this expectation that because he speaks like a child quite a bit older than he actually is that he ought to behave like one as well (ie share well and not "act like a two year old" generally). I keep reminding people (mainly family members) that two year olds do not generally share well and also don't have very good impulse control...so Rhys is completely NORMAL in having those traits!

I often find myself wishing that Rhys fit the mold of a two year old better...honestly being gifted was a pretty mixed bag for me and I really wouldn't have wished it on any of my children if I had the choice. The fact that he is really verbal is helpful because we can discuss things but I don't always handle his need to do everything by himself with as much patience as I should.

I think my biggest worry is that he will be teased and made to feel bad the way that I was in school. I am still on the fence about whether to send him to school at all when the time comes but I have another 2 years before I have to make that decision.

Steph

[eilonwy]

lex, that sounds like a really neat kid! :thumb he doesn't sound autistic to me, i've met lots of kids that age with really amazing memories (mostly within my family, but even so-- none of them are autistic at all ;)).

evergreen-- we showed BeanBean capital and lowercase letters, and when we did the "e, for egg" deal, we used proper nouns for the capitals. "e" is for "egg," "E" is for "Eli." it was really funny, we were out with SIL once when he was about 11 months old, and she pointed to a sign and said "look, it's e for Eli!" and he looked at her funny and said "no, e for egg." I had to explain our little system to her. :LOL

[teachma]

I'm interested that the topic of giftedness so easily leads to that of autism. I am another mom who has wondered about my very intelligent child's possibly being autistic (I was more concerned about Asperger's, which is somewhere on the spectrum). I guess my concerns were not so much about his incredible memory but his fleeting obsessions and also the fact that he is a little bit OC (not really the D, because I don't consider it a disorder, just an idiosyncrasy) and not too social with others his age. My ds also has "trouble" socially, but it's not because the other kids don't accept him. Rather, he doesn't accept THEM- sees himself as different. For example, when he started a threes preschool program a year and a half ago, he observed that the teacher used the word "friends" to address the students as a group. "Friends, we need to clean up now," etc. During the second month of school, ds asked me, with complete honesty and perplexity, "How come she calls us all friends? They aren't all my friends, just two of them are." He had just turned 3 when he made this remark. Well, hmmm...Wereas other 3 year olds might be more accepting of al the classmates as their friends, ds has always been very discriminating. And I can't argue with him- he gives specific reasons as to why each individual isn't his friend! Interestingly, however, ds is completely socially appropriate with older children- our 8 year old girl neighbor, for example- and even more so with grown ups. I think the child on the spectrum wouldn't know how to be socially appropriate with anyone. My ds just chooses not to be with those his own age. Quite a challenge and sometimes hard for me to accept.

[lckrause]

Teachma, Hollis has no friends his age either. He has plenty of adult friends and (if necessary) can relate to kids on their level (although this wasn't the case until recently), but he just has no interest in socializing with other kids. Except for his sister, who he gets along with great, and one little boy who lives across from my mom who is as weird as Hollis is. He does have a lot of Asperger's traits, but I've heard that Asperger's kids desperately want friends but can't communicate with other kids effectively... definitely not the same as what Hollis is like. He just loves hanging with adults and older kids who can understand what he's talking about.

Lex -- That kid is gifted but doesn't sound autistic to me since he's communicating so effectively. Hollis did the exact same thing with a giant map of the US at that age. It's so cool reading this thread and seeing where all the kids are and remembering back to when my kids were little. :)

[Evergreen]

Well, my inlaws are in town...

Today I bought Dylan a sheet of stickers and she was taking them off and sticking them back on. I was explaining 'negative space' to her so that she could match which stickers went into which areas. MIL scoffed, "hmmph, what is negative space?" Dylan ever-so-sweetly tried to explain, "Gramma, it is the same space as the sticker, but the shape of the sticker is on the outside not the inside." as she traced the outline.

Then at dinner, my salt shaker is shaped kind of like an egg, with a flat bottom. Dylan turned it upside down and began singing, "Dreidel, dreidel, dreidel I made you out of clay." We are not Jewish, so I may have spelled that incorrectly, sorry. I am an atheist, in fact so I have no idea where she learned about dreidels, but they must have made an impression on her! Anyway, I thought it was so sweet and dh was also quite impressed.

"Do you see that, she is singing the dreidel song!" I said and noticed MIL's face was blank.

"Drop it, they don't know what that is." my husband said to me.

It hit me then, she knows soemthing two grown adults don't. If she is already having to explain things at not even two what do the next eighteen years hold for her?

[eilonwy]

My younger niece has Asperger's. She's very bright, has an amazing memory, and is, in general, very high functioning. She has to work harder than other kids to learn some things (it took months of therapy to get her to hold a spoon, and even longer to get her to bring it to her mouth), is very outgoing with other children but doesn't really play with them-- she tends to play "at" them, or near them. She also rarely makes eye contact except by accident, unless you stand really far away from her. Personal space is a mystery to her-- she either wants to be in your face or 10 feet away. After 6 months of intense therapy, followed by 4 months in Early Intervention preschool, my niece was able to understand that people cry when they are sad and smile/laugh when they are happy; it took that much time for her to grasp facial expressions and their link to emotions.

She still doesn't understand body language, and has serious sensory issues. Oh, and there's *no* sense of danger, even now. BeanBean, at 12 months could understand that if something was hot he didn't want to touch it. But because my niece doesn't feel pain, she doesn't understand that if something is hot she shouldn't touch it; she got a third degree burn on her arm touching a hot comb and didn't even notice it enough to whimper. :(

When she gets upset or overstimulated (which is often) she throws herself into walls or the floor repeatedly, or she spins around in circles and flaps her arms. She rocks back and forth from one foot to the other when she's talking to you. She's been "different" her entire life; she was first referred for therapy when she hadn't started rolling over on her own yet at 6 months. She didn't crawl at all until she'd been in therapy for three months, and then she just took off. She was cruising by her first birthday, and the physical therapist was very pleased, and said "some kids just need to be shown how to do it the first few times." So, she was very far behind, but she caught up in a hurry with therapy.

Recently, I've heard many people ask if their child might be autistic, and they always say something like "He seems mostly normal but he does x and I read somewhere that kids with Asperger's Syndrom are like that." When I remark that their child doesn't seem remotely autistic they say, "but isn't there a spectrum?" Well, yes, there is, and the fact is my niece is at the high end of it. Many people, adults and children alike, have what might be called "autistic tendencies;" I'd go so far as to say that everyone I've ever met has something which could be siezed upon as justification for a diagnosis of Asperger's (or anything else, really). I used to play a game-- write down everything you do for a week, and give me the list along with two hours and a DSM, and I'll find something to diagnose you with. It rarely takes me that long, but it makes a point: everyone can have a label, if they really want it. That won't make it true or accurate, though.

Wow, that sounds a little bit ranty. I don't mean to come across that way, but this is something that's been really getting on my nerves of late. It seems like everywhere I go, someone's thinking their kid is autistic because they heard that kids with Asperger's seem mostly normal. They do-- but they also seem very different. Most of the people I've heard this from need to put down the abnormal psychology books and read "Raising Your Spirited Child" or something along those lines.

[teachma]

Funny little interaction betw. me and ds (4).

DS: Mom, she [baby sis] is going to knock over that bucket of crayons.
Me: Don't worry about it.
DS: Mom, quick, grab it! (as the bucket falls and spills crayons everywhere)
DS: Ughhh (in exasperation). That's just what I was hoping to avoid.

Sometimes, I love how he uses his words and expressions!

[catgirl]

Recently, I've heard many people ask if their child might be autistic, and they always say something like "He seems mostly normal but he does x and I read somewhere that kids with Asperger's Syndrom are like that." .........

I'd go so far as to say that everyone I've ever met has something which could be siezed upon as justification for a diagnosis of Asperger's (or anything else, really). I used to play a game-- write down everything you do for a week, and give me the list along with two hours and a DSM, and I'll find something to diagnose you with.

Wow, that sounds a little bit ranty. I don't mean to come across that way, but this is something that's been really getting on my nerves of late. It seems like everywhere I go, someone's thinking their kid is autistic because they heard that kids with Asperger's seem mostly normal. They do-- but they also seem very different. Most of the people I've heard this from need to put down the abnormal psychology books and read "Raising Your Spirited Child" or something along those lines.

Oh gosh, I hear you...I've had it suggested more than once that ds might be "on the spectrum" because he read before he talked (which was late) and wasn't really interested in interacting a whole lot with other kids his age.

I KNOW he's not autistic, but when everyone keeps suggesting it it gets to you after a while. Strange, since we started HSing and he gets to hang out with kids with similar intellectual profiles, he seems a lot more interested in interacting! I wonder why? :)

[eilonwy]

i'm seriously debating the merits of teaching beanbean how to read in a few months. on one hand, i know he could handle it; on the other, i don't want to push him too hard. there's more, but the point is, i'm really of two minds at this point.

i don't know why i'm so worried about this now.. maybe because i was his age when i read my first book? :shrug hmm. i just need to relax, i guess.

but it leads me to another question-- where do you draw the line between encouragement and pushing? for the past 15 years, i've wished that my mother had encouraged me to do just about anything; she never did, though, for fear of "pushing us too hard." so I never had anything to work for. school work was so easy that it may as well have been handed to me already finished and on a silver platter, and i didn't do much outside of school until junior high. even then, there were no challenges in my academic life.

BeanBean is two now, and I'm starting to feel that he should be encouraged to do something. I suppose the fact that I don't know what means that he's not ready, but I'm not sure. Sometimes he does seem ready. I don't want to fight with him, though. I want it to be fun, I want him to enjoy working things out and using his brain.

I suppose I should wonder what he wants out of life. At two, he doesn't want much; to watch the garbage trucks in the morning, to play with his cousins and grandparents, and to color and trace lines on his maps. He plays letter games and shape games and color games. I think he could probably do a lot more... maybe he's too young to be worrying like this. Is it possible for a two year old to stagnate?

[Heavenly]

My son also doesn't fit in with other children because he is so bright. They often don't have a clue what he is talking about. Like yesterday at playgroup he was asking a child about their painting and he said, "Did you intend to blend the colours that way? The contrast nicely?" To which the 3 year old responded, "Painting is fun." Elijah kind of got a look on his face like, "Oh brother," and walked away. I was also given a weird look at the craft table when he informed me that he was making a craft for his friend Andrew and asked if Andrew would be impressed with his work. Didn't seem like a particularly advanced comment to me but they were surprised at his use of the word impressed and also his grasp of the concept of other people being impressed with his efforts. I worry about him because of this. I was the same way and I just did not enjoy being around other children. It was almost like I felt they were too simple to waste my time on.

My daughter is sick right now with a really bad cold so she's not doing much other than being miserable. Oh but of course she still has to assert her independence even in the middle of night and even when she is sick. She kept waking up wanting to nurse or wanting water. The one time I had to go to the bathroom quickly and I knew she would want to nurse so I asked DH to get her some water and I'd be right there. I was in the bathroom and heard a big ruckus and I went in and Olivia was standing in the middle of the floor stomping her feet and yelling, "You do not have to hold me, I can drink my water myself, just leave me alone!" Then I came in and she ran over to me crying and said, "Daddy won't leave me alone!" DH was a bit offended but it was actually pretty funny. He was just trying to cuddle her because he felt bad she is so sick and she did NOT want to be coddled. Of course once I was there she dove in bed as sweet as a newborn lamb and said calmly, "I want to nursie."

Have to run she wants to nursie again.

[Queen of Cups]

but it leads me to another question-- where do you draw the line between encouragement and pushing? for the past 15 years, i've wished that my mother had encouraged me to do just about anything; she never did, though, for fear of "pushing us too hard." so I never had anything to work for. school work was so easy that it may as well have been handed to me already finished and on a silver platter, and i didn't do much outside of school until junior high. even then, there were no challenges in my academic life.

With my parents, and my ILs, there was never really any direct "Pushing" just the open assumption that all grades would be good and they were very actively involved in our school life. It was just expected of me that I would make all A's and I did. It was just expected that I would play an instrument in Band (I'd heard my talk about how fun band was and my mom talked about how beautiful music was), so I did. And it was absolutely expected that I would go to a four-year-residential college, so I did. My teachers were also great - they recruited me to be on academic teams, to get involved in clubs and stuff, and then to apply for scholarships for colleges. My parents were at every single PTA meeting, school play, science fair, band performance (in fact, they were band chaperones for most away events),academic competition, awards ceremony. They never paid us for grades, becuase it was just expected that we would get good one and we didn't need to be bribed, but we would all go out to eat in celebration when we got our report cards every six weeks, and they made a point of telling us they were really pround of us. The one class I ever made a "C" in during high school, I was so devastated and they were just completely supportive and made me feel so much better, because they knew I'd worked really hard (I have a total block on foreign languages and never got above a B in French). You know, thinking about it now, it probably helped a lot that my parents had both been high school teachers in the past.

I don't how much - if any - these things apply to the homeschooling environment. I never did any preschool, my mom stayed home with us when we were little and we didn't do any formal learning before attending school. Just lots and lots of trips to the library, children's museum, nature centers, parks, and other cool places. I actually started Kindergarten at age four and did well academically.

edited to add - I didn't really make it clear in the post, but I loved all of my experiences! I had a great time in school, loved band, colorguard, science team, debate team, church youth group, governor's school, and I'm glad I went to college, even though it was at times very difficult due to some issues I had with perfectionism and an eating disorder. I just wanted to clarify that my parents didn't encourage me to do things I didn't enjoy!

[luvmypoonchkie]

Well, the speech evaluator came today for Sam's stuttering and all went really well. He's only considered a mild stutterer and she was reassuring that it is most likely due to his verbal precocity. He enjoyed the testing at first (she was using stickers as a reward) but he got tired of it after about a half an hour (plus he was anxious to play with a tiger flashlight she had used to see inside his mouth earlier). Anyway, he topped off at about midway throught the 5 year old level, but that was due mostly to the fact that he was tired of answering questions. Some of the stuff I knew he knew but he would just point to something without looking or give a silly answer and giggle. The tester was great and she could tell this and that he was done. I was surprised by some of his answers because I initially thought they were wrong, then he explained them and it turned out he was right. In one question there were 3 pictures, one of a bycycle that had fallen over, one of a chair with some books open on it and one of a coloring book with some crayons. The evaluator asked "Sally scraped her knees and elbows, how did she do this?". Sam looked at all the pictures and pointed to the chair and books. I thought he didn't understand, then he said "I guess that chair is much to high for jumping off of.". It makes sense since he doesn't ride a bike and we don't know any big kids who do, so he wouldn't know you could hurt yourself on a bike. Anyway, since he's only considered mild he won't qualify for services but she encouraged me to continue on with the rest of the evaluation (they also have a phychologist and a teacher come see him) because she said it will come in handy when he's school age in regards to gifted programs. Honestly, however, having this evaluation and having some confirmation that he's well advanced is only causing me to lean more towards homeschooling. That's all, just wanted to share with you guys!

J

[lckrause]

Rynna, I'm sure what you're doing with BeanBean is fine. If he seems happy and eager to learn then I don't think you need to encourage him on top of what you're already doing. :)

I understand what you mean, though. We unschool and sometimes I feel like I'm not doing enough with the kids. So if they seem grouchy I'll ask them if they want to do some [structured] learning. Sometimes it's what they need and other times it's not.

[NoHiddenFees]

i'm seriously debating the merits of teaching beanbean how to read in a few months. on one hand, i know he could handle it; on the other, i don't want to push him too hard. there's more, but the point is, i'm really of two minds at this point.We chose not to teach DD1 after talking with our (very good) local librarian. She said that in her experience, children start to process language differently after they learn to read and are often less likely/able/willing to soak up the spoken word. She isn't one of those folks who have a blanket objection to all early reading, just the direct teaching of very young children in the earliest stages. DD1 taught herself to read at least two months before she turned three; we don't know how many because she didn't come out of the closet until we reassured her that we would always read to her, no matter what.

We had a couple sets of Bob Books, but DD1 was already reading past that level by the time we got around to using them. Besides, she's a sight reader, even of the Bob books. Now that she's reading, we're working our way through the Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading. Strange as it may seem given this choice, I'm not teaching her phonics. We just look at the words and read the passages. One lesson takes about five minutes.

I believe that reading aloud is more important at this age -- even after they can read on their own -- because read-aloud vocabulary is richer and the child will be exposed to more complex sentence structures and stories. Hopefully, they also get the right pronunciation; I've read that gifted readers are more likely than others to mispronouce words because they often read words before they hear them. I've lost count of how many novels we've finished in the past few months. The scary thing is, she has a far better recall of detail than I. I can only push the "mommy-brain" excuse so far, even with the new baby. :) We used to read each chapter twice (mommy or daddy would have to "catch up"), but that's proven unnecessary.

but it leads me to another question-- where do you draw the line between encouragement and pushing?This is tough. For now, we've chosen exposure and options without any expectation that she do this or that. Instead of encouraging her to try things, we encourage her to keep at it if it gets frustrating. Or take a break an come back later. We also try to model healthy failure whenever possible.

school work was so easy that it may as well have been handed to me already finished and on a silver platter, and i didn't do much outside of school until junior high. even then, there were no challenges in my academic life.I had a similar experience, except that I had a brief shining moment (in the one undergraduate program I did finish -- all others were apparently in anticipation of homeschooling) for which I applied myself and kicked some serious butt. However, I'm thinking that homeschooling will help the girls avoid this. There will be no status quo to live down to, KWIM? No grades. No external validation that becomes the raison d'etre of schooling. I want the girls to grow up feeling good about themselves and their abilities. Sorry, getting off track here.

Is it possible for a two year old to stagnate?Sure it is, but only if there is no opportunity to do anything else. I don't even think giftedness would be much of a factor. IMHO, any child in an enriched environment, with interested parents and plenty of interesting things to stumble across (even just a cool back yard) will not stagnate. If you haven't seen it, I'd highly recommend "Bringing Out the Best" by Saunders and Espeland. It's OOP, but if not in your library doesn't it can still be found remaindered and cheap used copies are available. It's chock full of ideas on how to enrich the environment of young gifted kids without pushing

[teachma]

My mom and I are both trained teachers of reading, and we are teaching ds to read now...but he is FOUR, not two. While he generally needs a little bit of a push to do anything at all, he has been "ready" to read, in terms of knowing the letters and sounds, for a very long time, and recently, he began saying things like, "I wish I could read it myself" because I am often busy with the baby. So we have started teaching him with a systematic phonics approach which may seem artificial or boring to some, but which he loves. (I say "we" because my mom is my full-time child care provider and she has been doing some of this work with him during the weekdays.) We are teachng him short vowel words in isolation right now (hand, bust, cat, send...) and as well, he has learned the "sh" blend and the "oo" as in Boo! (from a shirt I wore this Halloween, actually). So he can't read books yet, but he can read lots and lots of words, and he loves it! He sees himself as a reader now, which is really exciting to him. My goal is to keep it fun and not to push if he resists.

[catgirl]

i'm seriously debating the merits of teaching beanbean how to read in a few months. on one hand, i know he could handle it; on the other, i don't want to push him too hard. there's more, but the point is, i'm really of two minds at this point.

i don't know why i'm so worried about this now.. maybe because i was his age when i read my first book? :shrug hmm. i just need to relax, i guess.

but it leads me to another question-- where do you draw the line between encouragement and pushing? for the past 15 years, i've wished that my mother had encouraged me to do just about anything; she never did, though, for fear of "pushing us too hard." so I never had anything to work for. school work was so easy that it may as well have been handed to me already finished and on a silver platter, and i didn't do much outside of school until junior high. even then, there were no challenges in my academic life.

BeanBean is two now, and I'm starting to feel that he should be encouraged to do something. I suppose the fact that I don't know what means that he's not ready, but I'm not sure. Sometimes he does seem ready. I don't want to fight with him, though. I want it to be fun, I want him to enjoy working things out and using his brain.

I suppose I should wonder what he wants out of life. At two, he doesn't want much; to watch the garbage trucks in the morning, to play with his cousins and grandparents, and to color and trace lines on his maps. He plays letter games and shape games and color games. I think he could probably do a lot more... maybe he's too young to be worrying like this. Is it possible for a two year old to stagnate?

Why don't you just try, in a casual kind of way? If he's interested, he'll go for it; if he's not, you can leave it. My ds at 2.5 knew probably 200 sight words but when I casually introduced the idea of each letter having a sound he didn't want to "play", so I just dropped it. 4 months later dh got him "Pooh's Ready to Read" software and apparently he was ready, because he played with it obsessively for 4 days straight (while I was flat on my back with the worst flu I've ever had), by the end of which he had them all down. 6 weeks later he was decoding and reading his books on his own. I guess his brain was just suddenly primed for it at that point. You'll know if BB is ready or not by his reaction.

[allgirls]

I get such pleasure myself from reading I get excited about kids who learn to read early...like they can experience that joy earlier...never thought there might be a downside to that....

Someone said to me the other day "she's so little for her age" and I said "really, she's the same size as the other little girl and she's a month older"(it was at playgroup and there were other toddlers there, she was playing with a 19 mo old) The lady said "isn't she 2" and I said "she just turned 18 mos" ....her eyes got real big"she seems so much older, I thought she was a tiny 2 year old, she talks so well!"

I get that a lot...and it makes me wonder...will people expect more of her because of this...on the other hand shouldn't we expect more of her in some way?

About teaching reading to BeanBean...I think introduce it gently...if he's ready he will read, if not he won't...I know what you mean about doing more...that's it isn't it? You really can't stop him once he gets it in his head he's ready...LOL...at the rate he is going the choice may be taken out of your hands...he may just decide on his own he wants to learn

Sometimes I feel like I have been given this overwhelming responsibility and I am so scared of messing it up...Sophia will come to me and say "BBC's" when she wants to type letters on the computer and I think about it before I do it...should I, should I not, she's a baby...why am I doing the alphabet...I never offer, she always asks so she is taking the lead...but then there's that little doubt about "am I pushing her" which I don't think I am because that would require work and basically I am a lazy person...LOL

Anyway, cute thing here. Something I have noticed lately is that she is really into "sharing"(at this point I think it' kind of a game rather than really getting it) and I think empathy is developing too...it's like she kinda gets it though...but I have never made her share, she's too young for that concept. but I always give babies toys when they look at hers so I guess she understands that others want toys too.

So at playgroup Friday she went and gave her doll she was playing with to a one year old to play with then gave him a kiss on the cheek(it was real sweet)he had been crying because it was all new and he was shy and she went and gave him her doll, gave him a kiss and got herself another doll...he started playing with the doll and stopped crying...his mom was amazed...I was very proud.

It's a lot of fun with this child...I think I will take her to more playgroups each week..we could go every day...she loves other children...

[amyjeans]

(this was posted elsewhere, but it was suggested that
I come here.) :)
Hi All this is my first time in this forum and I would like your opinion, if I may!
Little history- have a 2 yr old girl, Sara 1-19-03, and a 3 mo old girl, Sydney 10-09-04.
We are homeschooling. Actually, more like unschooling. Even though Sara is 2 (Jan 19th!!!) my husband and I began her education since birth it seems and go at a very laid back pace.
Sara is extremely receptive. It may seem hard to believe, but she knows her alphabet, can count to twenty, has very good pronounciation and grammar, can read (somewhat from memorization) and has begun to write.
Her abilities astound us. She enjoys learning about the solar system and can tell you all the planets in order. When we ask her where she lives, she says Earth. But her favorite is Saturn because it has pretty rings!
Just too cute actually.
Do we have the makings of a brainiac here? All my sisters (who are anti-homeschooling by the way) say I am not smart enough for my daughter to school her. Meaning she's smart, not that I am stupid.
This kind of concerns me. If she is such a sponge, and so smart, will I have a problem? Am I just overreacting?
I swear I am not here to brag...okay, I am here to brag- she is so flippin smart!!! Its kinda scary actually...
I just don't want to put any hinderance on her brainpower, kwim?
Any suggestions in helping her thrive in her education?
Thanks for your responses.

Warm Regards

[eilonwy]

You're totally right-- I don't feel like I"m doing enough with him. Of course, I don't feel like I'm doing enough of *anything* of late. *sigh* I really worry about him, especially at times like this when I'm feeling so miserable overall (depressed, stomach virus, general ickiness). I feel like my miseries may be making his life more difficult already. I was feeling horrible, and then it occurred to me that I might be turning into my mother and I just burst into tears. I really hope it's not the case, though, and that I can work this crap all out of my system. At any rate, someone made an excellent point: this may well be taken out of my hands in a few months anyway. BeanBean is not terribly visually oriented, but he seems well on his way to reading anyhow. :shrug He's got a bunch of books memorized (he has for ages) but when he's actually "reading" he totally makes up words. Sometimes he'll "read" a blank sheet of paper and tell me it says "a b c's, won't you sing with me?" and then sing.

Miss BooBah started cruising a few evenings ago. Crawled out of bed and pulled herself up on a drawer (the first time she's pulled up to standing on something non-human) and then cruised to the end of it. She stood there, rifling through Mike's shirts for a while before she got back on the floor to eat one of BeanBean's toys. :LOL Mike saw her first, he called me "Honey, come see, hurry up!" because he thought she was going to fall, but she stayed up for a good long while.

Which brings me to a question: have you ever seen very tiny socks/footed sleepers with tread? I had this problem with BeanBean when he was 14 months old; he would walk and then fall down and I couldn't figure out why until I changed him and realized that the pajamas he was wearing had no tread on the bottom. It was a 12 month size blanket sleeper, and it fit him beautifully, but it wasn't meant for a walking baby (a newborn XL, as opposed to an infant small). It was very easy to fix at that point; infant sizes (12-36 months) do have tread on the bottoms of the feet, so I just made it a point not to put him in the newborn sized sleepers anymore. I've never seen *anything* in a 6-9 month size with tread on the feet, and it's too cold for BooBah to be barefooted. I don't want her to slide too much when she stands, though, because if she's holding on to something she could hurt herself really badly. She only started cruising this week, but tonight she was doing it one-handed and I think she may attempt to walk soon. :yikes: :scared At any rate, if you see teeny tiny (she's about a size 2) socks with tread on the bottom, please let me know where! She doesn't need to fall to hurt her head-- she's got a brother to do that for her. :eyesroll

She enjoys learning about the solar system and can tell you all the planets in order. When we ask her where she lives, she says Earth. But her favorite is Saturn because it has pretty rings!

BeanBean likes Saturn because there's a car called Saturn. When he found out there was a car called "Mercury" he just about flipped his lid. :LOL

I'm not sure what to say about your sisters. My sisters always thought I was wierd for saying I wanted to homeschool, but now one of them's got me teaching her daughter so :shrug. The other one is really obnoxious and acts like she knows more about parenting and homeschooling than I possibly could (and she *really* doesn't, she's totally out of her league on both counts) so she's nasty about it, but it doesn't matter. My niece is thriving. :thumb Of course, it's never been suggested that I wasn't smarter than my kids... but that's a whole different can of worms.

My mother found a small article in her local paper mentioning a support group, irl, for parents of gifted children! They're doing an 8 week seminar on a book called "Guiding the Gifted Child" and I am so totally going (it's only $30, and they give you a copy of the book). The group is something like the Lancaster Coalition for the Support of Gifted Children. Mom said "I've never heard of these people, but where the hell were they when I needed them?" :LOL I really can't wait to go. I'm totally expecting to encounter some people I've met before (as far as gifted children in my old school district go, I was somewhat... infamous) but not since becoming a parent, and some people I've never met before. Hopefully there will be other parents of very young children, and homeschoolers...I've just got really high hopes.

[amyjeans]

I found babygap has small socks with tread.
http://secure.www.gap.com/asp/Product.asp?wdid=760601&wpid=281116
hope this helps.

As far as my sisters go, well, just to let you know, I am the baby, so it is completely within my right, as well as my duty to turn 180 degrees from their methods.
I was the first in my family (of 5 mind you) to breastfeed, to have unmedicated, unmanaged, unassisted homebirth, and of course the first to CD, stay home, and homeschool. Needless to say, they've all got a bug up their "you know what" about my "lifestyle". I think it's not jealousy but more a regret for not making a choice, but doing what everyone else did.
Its actually funny, how mainstream these people are. Almonst "Keeping up with the Jones'" type!
I always thought I was more of a follower, seems I am a leader as well. :D
I just hope that our "thinking outside the box" rubs off on our children.

[Terpatude]

It is so nice to have found this thread..DS is 12 years old and reading these posts brought back many of the things he did when he was much younger( carrying only matching toys, the lining up of the toys, theability to do puzzles very young..the verbatim memorization.) what a nice trip down memory lane..he is in 7th grade, in all honors clases and bored with school, but teaches himself new things every day. he sat down last night and researced the yellow fever epidemic of 1793 because he heard about the spread of malaria in the tsunami ravaged areas. he is a joy to watch interact with his world...I love the way he is always reading, looking, analzying things, then 2 seconds later , he is off riding bikes with his buds..

[catgirl]

Do we have the makings of a brainiac here? All my sisters (who are anti-homeschooling by the way) say I am not smart enough for my daughter to school her. Meaning she's smart, not that I am stupid.
This kind of concerns me. If she is such a sponge, and so smart, will I have a problem? Am I just overreacting?
Warm Regards

If she's that smart I would think HSing is the only way to go! And don't worry, your job is not to know everything she needs to know. Your job is to facilitate her learning, and sounds like you're doing fine at that already.

[LeftField]

If she's that smart I would think HSing is the only way to go! And don't worry, your job is not to know everything she needs to know. Your job is to facilitate her learning, and sounds like you're doing fine at that already.

Also, you might find the faciltator role easier than anticipated. In my son's case, he taught himself much of the basics: shapes, numbers, etc. I taught him uppercase letters, back when he was speech-delayed because I wanted to see if he could make the sounds necessary for speech. But he taught himself the lowercase counterparts when he got letter magnets for his second birthday. We had no idea how he figured out that "g" was, "G". I've been reading through Miquon math stuff, reading how to teach children to add and subtract. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that ds1 does add and subtract single-digits. I have no idea how he learned that.

We have found that he is very self-directed. You may notice that about your daughter. I've often heard parents of gifted children say that their children pull them (as opposed to pushing the children). Whether or not mine is gifted, I can vouch for the incredible self-motivation and the rage to master things. You might find your daughter running ahead, with you following behind trying to keep her up in resources. As scary as that initially sounds, I think that it's ultimately easier in the end. From what I've read, gifted kids often teach themselves.

[teachma]

Rynna, are you able to find Robees "shoes" for little ones anywhere? My 9.5 month dd started standing, and slipping, around 7 months old. We got her Robeez leather booties to put over her socks; they have suede bottoms and do not slide on our wood floors. She is a tiny girl, and the 6-12 month size was a little big for the first month or so but did not impede her ability to start cruising and definitely helped to keep her on her feet. They are a little on the expensive side (almost $30) but we have 2 pairs, and she wears one or the other every day. The also help to keep the socks on because they have elastic at the ankle.

[eilonwy]

i have looked at robeez, but they are way too expensive; i've also heard that they don't always fit babies with exceptionally wide feet/high insteps, and she's got both. at this point, she's still too small for preschoolians, which are also too expensive. somoene on another thread suggested using puffy paints to make tread on the bottoms of things, and i thought that was brilliant. :thumb

I've got pictures of cruising BooBah in my sig! Just click on "BooBah" to see my little lady crawling and trying to walk! :love

[Evergreen]

Rhynna---awwwww :love BooBah is getting big! Dylan isn't close to reading (I know she is almost 3 months younger than BeanBean) she can recognize many words by site and spell aloud and on a keyboard, but I don't think I will be teaching her to read for close to another year. But, B seems really receptive to it.

amyjeans- I can't get over how much Sara sounds like DYlan. She loves the solar system too! And she isonly one day younger than your little girl! Wow!

Does anyone's gifted child seem to actually have a short attention span? Or is it just me? She won't focus on anything, it is bounce from one thing to another. She doesn't finish anything. She is just a ball of wired energy! Sometime si can't keep up! I am so glad she has started napping again!

[teachma]

Does anyone's gifted child seem to actually have a short attention span? Or is it just me? She won't focus on anything, it is bounce from one thing to another. She doesn't finish anything. She is just a ball of wired energy! Sometime si can't keep up! I am so glad she has started napping again!

My son either bounces from one thing to the next to the next to the next, or he obsesses over something for an entire day or more (currently: a Star Wars picture dictionary book). I am embarrassed to say that I get very impatient with both behaviors and sometimes wish he would play like a "normal" kid. I am learning to accept how he is, but for some reason, it's hard for me.

[eilonwy]

Does anyone's gifted child seem to actually have a short attention span? Or is it just me? She won't focus on anything, it is bounce from one thing to another. She doesn't finish anything. She is just a ball of wired energy! Sometime si can't keep up! I am so glad she has started napping again!

BeanBean only appears to have a short attention span if he is uninterested in something, and even then only if you forget that he is, in fact, two years old. :innocent He's an active, bouncy guy and sometimes what he's most interested in is jumping on the bed or something like that, so that's what he does. But he's got a remarkably long attention span. With gifted kids, it's really easy to forget what a normal attention span for a two year old is, though. I remember reading somewhere that for a two year old to sit still for a minute and a half is rather remarkable... but I'm not certain.

[USAmma]

I just wanted to jump in to the reading discussion. I know some parents are afraid of pushing a child. I don't think a child can be pushed into reading at this age unless there's punishment or something involved. They will either be interested or they won't. Just follow their cues, point out things in daily life rather than sitting down and teaching at first. Or as you are reading books, substitute the wrong word into a familiar book and have them correct you. You can then say, "Oh yeah, it says cat, not horse. See? c-c-cat."

For my dd her reading skills came way early, along with her verbal skills. It was a source of entertainment for her, a self-esteem booster, and something fun we could do together. I got the Bob books a few mos. ago and she now will read signs and labels pretty well for how confusing the English language is sometimes. It's all on her own.

Here's a recent conversation she had in the car with me:

"Mommy? Gumby is gummy! ha ha! That's a funny joke, huh?"

(pause)

"Gumby, gummy, Gumby, gummy. That rhymes!"

(pause)

"What is that letter b doing?"

I told her I didn't understand about the letter b, to explain it to me.

"Well that 'b' is sitting between all those other letters. It turned 'gummy' into 'Gumby'!"

[allgirls]

Sophia has an amazingly long attention span...it's the first thing I noticed different about her...she can go for at least an hour if something interests her. She pretend plays for very long periods of time making her toys talk and dance and feeding them and such.

She also can spend up to half an hour with her books alone "reading" and she makes up stories and you can hear that some of it is actually part of the story she remembers from when you read to her

funny at the grocery store...I am picking up frozen dinners for my husband to take on his trip...she is saying letters and then I realize she is reading letters above the freezer e-n-t-r-e-e-s...I said "entrees" and she said "n-trees" it was so cute...

[eilonwy]

Yesterday, I found out that BeanBean knows his phone number, and the names of the cities where we, my mother, and the IL's live. I had no idea he knew this stuff at all, he just popped out with it yesterday. I was at my mom's doing laundry and he came down and said "Mamma? Are we going back to ____? I live in ____." :jaw He told my mother the phone number, and it was really funny because he says it with just the same cadence that I use when I'm telling someone. I asked him what else he knows and he told me his sister's birthday (which he hears me say all the time to various medical folk.) Wow, that just blew me away. One of these days, he's going to tell me my social security number and I'm going to faint dead away. :LOL

Today, my not-quite-seven-month-old daughter stood up on her own. I was startled and shocked, and I called Mike and she fell down, laughing her little head off. I'm totally not ready for this! I find myself hoping that she'll "forget" how desperately she wants to walk tomorrow and stop working so hard on it. :bag: I can't believe I'm already trying to hold her back, and she's still such a little person. :bag: :hide: Seriously, though, I was hoping that she'd be more like a year old, that I'd get to really enjoy her crawling stage, and I was kind of expecting cruising to take longer. Don't get me wrong; she's not walking by any means (today) but at the rate she's going, it could be next month or next week. I'm so not ready to have another walking baby right now it's not even funny. The idea of buying her actual shoes has me horrified.

Despite all of this, I still feel that I'm not doing enough for the kids. :crying They're obviously doing well, learning and growing (BooBah weighs 15.5 pounds!) and all that, but I feel totally inadequate. Every time I take inventory and try to think of something else to do, something comes up or I decide I'm too tired/lazy/weak/whatever to do it. I feel like I'm fighting a subconscious urge to "behead the tall poppies," as it were, as well as an urge not to push them. This is totally ripping my brain in half! Given the choice between working this out and doing several pages of differential equations, I'll take the equations any day. Even the ones where you have to draw.

I guess this is all in my head, huh?

[NoHiddenFees]

Yesterday, I found out that BeanBean knows his phone number, and the names of the cities where we, my mother, and the IL's live. Scary, isn't it? Both my first and last names are difficult for most people to spell, so I'm always spelling them out to people. Last spring, DD1 and I were at my dentist (first visit) and I started to spell out my name. After two letters, I got distracted by something shiny and she finished for me. I was almost as flabbergasted as the receptionist. She then said, "and I'm..." and proceeded to spell out her own full name.

I can't believe I'm already trying to hold her back, and she's still such a little person.There's nothing wrong with lamenting imminent walking or any other coming developmental milestone that's going to require major adjustment on your part. It's natural. You're not holding her back by simply by wishing things were going more slowly.

Despite all of this, I still feel that I'm not doing enough for the kids. :crying They're obviously doing well, learning and growing (BooBah weighs 15.5 pounds!) and all that, but I feel totally inadequate.What is it you think you should be doing? If you could be three fully motivated people -- one for each kid and one extra for everything else that has to be done -- what would each of you do? I'm always amazed at how quickly the days fly by, and each new day I resolve to add a bit more structure, but then the next day flies by just as quickly. But when I think about what DD1 has done during the course of the day, I don't feel guilty. She makes worlds, she becomes people and animals (I love it when she insists that she IS all three Billy Goats Gruff at one... my daughter, the meta-goat), she makes up games, she paints, she glues buttons and sprinkles glitter like fairy dust and then dances over sprinkles, she makes up songs and little poems, she puns and expects me to appreciate them all (can long ago ex-boyfriend genes be passed on to one's children?), she makes sense of her world in a way I can't really help her with, no matter how motivated or industrious I am that particular day.

We do have three structured learning activities (plus Music Together), each done three or more days a week plus we read aloud a lot (though for enjoyment not "learning"). She's asked for all of the activities. I don't think any of them are necessary and if she didn't ask for them, we wouldn't be doing them. Well, that's not quite true, since she was already reading, I'd probably encourage her to think about the reading lessons to help her become a stronger reader.

* 5 minutes of reading lessons. I simple read DD1 the word lists from a lesson of The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading, then she reads me the little story at the end. Done. Sometimes she'll ask to do another lesson. Occasionally we'll do four or five.

* 15 minutes of math. We're doing Right Start Math... a bit more than a third of the way through Level B. She loves it and would happily do more (she devoured two years of Singapore Pre-K/K workbooks in about two weeks), but I'm taking this slowly. If she want's to play one of the math games outside these 15 minutes, that's OK, but I don't extend the lessons.

* 10-15 minutes of Handwriting Without Tears. DD1 really wants to write legibly and this is the friendliest program I could find. We're just working with the chalkboards at the moment.

As soon as she has sufficient fine motor control (probably this summer), we're going to start Mona Brook's Drawing With Children. I'm going to do it with her... I can draw, but it's technical drawing and I'd like to see if I can free my mind up to do something artistic.

[Monkeymom13]

Hi, all! I am new to the forum, and just wanted to tell everyone how happy I am to have found somewhere we parents of G/T children can share our triumphs, frustrations, and hard-won advice.

I am the mother of two children, a 5-yr-old dd and a 4-yr-old ds. Dd is in Kindergarten, and has been recently placed by the school in their off-site program for gifted children. Ds is in pre-school, but seems to be doing not much above average with his classmates, though this loving mommy *knows* he is very bright. ;)

Reading through these posts, I notice many of the mothers out there have young gifted children. I am so amazed! When dd was small, I never imagined her intelligence was significantly above average. (Bless you all for noticing your babies' special talents so early.) Dh and I are still reeling from the news that dd is so exceptional academically, and I have been scrambling to do as much research as possible. It is proving both frustrating and exhilarating; there seems to be so little information out there for young gifteds, yet so wonderful to finally not feel so guilty for birthing a child so obviously "outside social norms".

I giggle over many of the antics and questions your children have surprised and delighted you with, especially the discourse on the nature of God. Dd confines her inquisitiveness to more esoteric topics, like astronomy and the exact mechanics of radio waves :help , so I have not had the joy of explaining the existence of the divine in a concrete fashion. I am wondering if anyone else out there has shared some of my experiences in Gifted Motherhood? For example:

Dd knew how to get over, around, through or under every single child-proofing device on the market by the age of 18 months.

Dd's favorite Terrible Twos pastime was sneaking downstairs at 3am to break into the kitchen cabinets and "cook" with ketchup, cocoa powder, honey, salt, popcorn, etc.---on the middle of the kitchen floor.

Dd never seemed to need half as much sleep as her exhausted mommy & daddy.

Dd consistently climbed onto the highest piece of furniture possible, no matter what method of discouragement used.

Dd would have an emotional meltdown promptly at 7pm every night, almost without fail, with little or no provocation.

Dd comes home from a long day at school and promptly immerses herself in any number of subjects like math, geography, astronomy, Japanese, for hours on end.

Dd finds it almost impossible to tear herself away from any activity if she does not percieve it is finished. Attempts to do so may result in temper tantrum.

Dd complains she has no friends at school, though she talks about other students and teachers mention no socialisation problems.

Ah, I think I'll stop there. Dd has been tested by a child psychologist after given a diagnosis of AD/HD, so there are no other emotional/developmental issues at work. (Actually, the more research I do into giftedness, the more I wonder if she was not misdiagnosed in the first place.) I just mention these things because they are the behaviours that nearly drove my husband and I to the edge. It is such a release to be able to tell other mothers the challenges and despairs your child's incomprehensible behaviour presents, without them viewing you with pity/disbelief/embarrassment.

On the other hand, ds is not so emotionally intense. He has his own challenging quirks, but after dd... :D His intellectual level seems much lower than dd's at the same age, but I think I may either be skewed in my perceptions by dd's development, or am just secretly hoping for a more "normal" (ie. less exhausting) child. And that makes me feel incredibly self-centered and guilty. :bag:

I think I've rattled on long enough. Mommy doesn't get to have adult conversations (with other adults, anyway) that often, so I let myself go for a bit. ;) So, again, I am really ecstatic about finding this meeting place for parents challenged as we are. So lovely to have an understanding and empthic sounding board for all our worries and cheering section for our little blessings that the world at large seems to view with an eye of misunderstanding.

[NoHiddenFees]

Welcome :)

I am the mother of two children, a 5-yr-old dd and a 4-yr-old ds. Dd is in Kindergarten, and has been recently placed by the school in their off-site program for gifted children.I've read so many heartbreaking stories about gifted kids getting shafted by their school system, and parents having to fight even to get their needs acknowleged, much less met, that I'm excited to hear about this situation. Could you share a bit about the program she's in?

Dh and I are still reeling from the news that dd is so exceptional academically, and I have been scrambling to do as much research as possible. It is proving both frustrating and exhilarating; there seems to be so little information out there for young gifteds, yet so wonderful to finally not feel so guilty for birthing a child so obviously "outside social norms".I'm presuming you've been to Hoagies (http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/), but am including a link just in case. There's a number of links to articles about young gifted children and twice exceptional children there.

Some good general offline resources I've found are:
Creative Homeschooling for Gifted Children by Lisa Rivero
This would be good even for those not homeschooling because there are tonnes of ideas that could be used for afterschooling and many good suggestions for books, etc.
Some of my Best Friends are Books by Judith Wynn Halsted
Smart Girls by Barbara Kerr (there's a Smart Boys too I think)

There are also a couple of recently released must reads, especially for those going through public or private school systems:
Genius Denied by the Davidsons
A Nation Deceived (http://nationdeceived.org/) by Colangelo et. al.

Again welcome... I look forward to hearing more about your family.

[eilonwy]

BooBah took an unassisted step today. I'm losing my mind! I'm not ready! She's obviously ready, but *I'm* not. :run

More later.

[eilonwy]

Britishmum-- The idea of it all "evening out" by fifth grade is a sad, sad expression of the many ways that schools short change gifted kids. To the outside world, many gifted kids do appear to "even out" by then, because they have long since lost any interest in school whatsoever and determined that real learning happens elsewhere; thus, they divert their energies. My husband's 4th or 5th grade teacher wrote something on his report card to this effect: "Michael is too busy getting his own education to pay any attention to mine." (FTR: Mike certainly qualifies as gifted; not profoundly and probably not even highly gifted, but definately gifted.) That's pretty much what gifted kids do, and the more highly gifted they are the earlier it happens, and the more drastic the effect.

Honestly, in your position I'd spend the next year educating my husband on the merits of homeschooling. Join a homeschool support group (or start your own!) and show him that kids do in fact socialize. Teach him all about the artificial constructs of school socialization (this is the argument which really won my husband over on the subject). Find all of the information you possibly can on the subject and hit him with all of it. Because the fact is, your gut feeling is entirely accurate: Your daughter will lose a great deal by being in school, and you can do a better job. Absolutely.

Dd knew how to get over, around, through or under every single child-proofing device on the market by the age of 18 months.

Dd never seemed to need half as much sleep as her exhausted mommy & daddy.

Dd consistently climbed onto the highest piece of furniture possible, no matter what method of discouragement used.

:wave Welcome! At about 9 months, my son opened a bottle of infant's tylenol. It's only gone downhill from there. Now the only things he can't open are doorknob covers (his hands aren't quite big enough) and the fridge lock (because it's out of his reach and he's never seen how we do it.); everything else is fair game. He can open our front door, and because we live in an apartment we can't just put another lock up where he can't reach it, so occasionally he'll walk out into the street. :( Oh, and he doesn't sleep anymore, either. :tired:

In short, yes, I can relate. :LOL

If not for my niece, I probably wouldn't have recognized BeanBean as extraordinary. Sadly, I was raised to believe that certain behaviors in very young children are normal, and anything less was deficient. I knew I was smart, but I had no idea that anyone would apply terms like "profoundly gifted" to me. For years, I honestly believed that the reason not all children could do the things I could was that they just didn't want to, or their parents didn't care. :bag:

When ChibiChibi came along, she didn't do the things that we did (i.e. talking in complete, adult sentences at 10-12 months). For a while, I seriously worried that she was slow. Then I started looking around at other kids, and doing some research. It turns out that ChibiChibi actually displays all the signs of being a highly gifted child. She's really a very smart kid, despite the fact that she didn't teach herself to read at two, or say something like "these diapers irritate me between my legs. Surely there's something better?" in order to potty learn. I came to understand that what I had thought of as "above average" for my entire life was actually profound giftedness, and that there were loads of gifted and highly gifted kids out there whom I had sort of overlooked. I also became very very depressed, and very very angry over my school experiences, among other things.

At any rate, by the time BeanBean was born, I was ready. When BeanBean started talking as a newborn, I recognized it for what it was. Now, at two, he is still not like I was (or my siblings, really) but he's definately a very bright kid. If I had to put a number on him, I'd say 140-150; but I'd rather not try at this point. I know that he's a very cool kiddo, and I'll have my hands full for the next few years. I know that I have an obligation not only to him and his sister, but to society to educate him to the best of my ability and see to it that he grows up into a happy, healthy, productive member of society. In my mind, it's especially important to tend to the educations of gifted and highly gifted children, because they're our future leaders and quite frankly none of them should have to end up the way that I and my siblings have. They deserve better, and society deserves better.

I don't expect schools to be able to deal with this issue. I know that schools are busy, they are overstretched and underfunded, and they have to do what's right for the majority of kids. (I don't believe they do a great job of that, but that's a story for another post.) That's fine, and I don't have a problem with it, but don't expect me to put my kids into that system when I know that they don't fall into that majority in any way shape or form.

There's a theory that highly gifted kids can thrive in any environment; let my lack of sucess in life stand as a testament to it's falsehood. I did things as a small child that... well, let's just say I was a strange and scary little girl in a lot of ways. I've never held a job that paid more than $5.75 an hour, and I've rarely been happy. I am sucessful at breastfeeding, and that's probably it. Only time will tell if I am a sucessful parent and educator. I want and expect better for my children.

[lckrause]

Oh, don't get me started on the "evening out" thing. This is something I actually believed myself BEFORE I had gifted kids. Somehow I don't think my 9 year old is going to regress seven grade levels from where he is now and suddenly start doing stuff on a third grade level. :eyesroll Only people who have never parented a gifted kid could believe the old "evening out" tale.

Rynna, Nan started walking at 8 months. Get ready! At 10 months I had to put away her high chair because she could climb in and out of it herself and undo the buckle (!). At 11 months she could climb the playground equipment and go down the slide by herself (did THAT ever freak people out) and once when she was a toddler (under 18 months but I don't remember the exact age) I found her on top of the refrigerator. To this day I don't know how she got up there!

On the plus side she is now the best in her dance classes...

[Monkeymom13]

Welcome :)

I've read so many heartbreaking stories about gifted kids getting shafted by their school system, and parents having to fight even to get their needs acknowleged, much less met, that I'm excited to hear about this situation. Could you share a bit about the program she's in?



Thanks to everyone for the welcome! I have a friend in the same school district as dd, just a different location, and our experiences are almost polar opposites. Her dd is 8, and she had to fight tooth & nail simply to get her evaluated for our district's AIG (Academically and Intellectually Gifted) program. 8 years old, doing pre-algebraic equations on her own, and yet teachers insisted she was not exceptional in any way...! It almost makes me feel guilty for how realtively easy it has been for us to get our own dd into the evaluation process.

Now, about the program: We are in the state of North Carolina, which has recently adopted a state-wide policy regarding LD and GT children. About 2 years ago they finally separated the programs and attached policies. The GT children in our school district are divided up into 2 categories; 1. Those who are evaluated as MG, so are simply "clustered" with other high-performing students within their own classrooms. 2. Those who are evaluated as EG/HG+ and are not oly clustered, but also enrolled in a once-a-week pull-out program located off-site.

Now, we did have to insist dd be tested before the grade 1, as they actively discouraged her being tested so early (thus reinforcing my belief that dd was not truly exceptional :eyesroll ). They kept saying no other Ks were in the pull-out program, I guess implying dd wouldn't be able to get in either. Well, she showed them. lol 99% across the board, though I'm not certain how out-of-level those tests were. At least Grade 1.

We have not been in the GT system that long, but it is certainly a wonderful program for the majority of gifteds. All teachers at the off-site center are certified, flexible, creative, and everything we could have hoped for. The rest of the week is what worries me, as there are no other peers for her, intellectually, in her class. She has far surpassed K curriculum, even most of 1 & possibly 2, I would venture (except math calculation), yet teachers seem intent on simply piling more extra work on her on top of insisting she do regular classwork and AIG center work. She doesn't socialise well at all with her age-mates, but took like a fish to water at the AIG center.

I guess the wrap-up would be this: I recognise how exceptionally lucky we have been to be in a school system that is so well-equipped to handle most gifted children. It is not a perfect system, and there may be many problems we will face with dd, as we are beginning to suspect (per the school) that she is on the high end of the GT spectrum. Her K teacher is a wonderful, accomodating, understanding woman, but she has not been trained to deal with dd's uniquie academic needs. She is trying to learn how to teach dd---while teaching her. Bless her heart.

And bless you! Yes, I have indeed been to Hoagies and other sites. I actually found Davidson's library, and have been methodically working my way through it for the past 2 days. I have dl'd the report on the book you recommended, and am intrigued by what I have skimmed over so far. I can't wait to get some of the other recommended reading, especially those for dd herself. She enjoys non-fiction to the exclusion of all else (unless she reads to me), and has gotten much use out of introspection and self-help books.

Many thanks for the welcome, the help, and most of all, your ear!

[Monkeymom13]

Britishmum-- I completely empathise with your current dilemma. My ds, just turned 4, will not be able to join K until he is almost 6...and he already is at a slightly higher skill level than most Ks. The misfortune of his birthdate, combined with the school system's inflexible adherence to age-group structure are creating a headache for me. I have been aware of this problem for long time, of course, but my break-neck education on the shortcomings of the public school system in regards for HG kids has opened my eyes to the signs ds displays of giftedness, as well. I will be calling the school on Monday, believe me.

Those frustrations being stated, I am still a firm believer in the public school system. Well, our public school system, anyway. We are currently in North Carolina, but we moved from South Carolina last year, and you could not have paid me to place my children within that horrifically poor school system. (Schools were the deciding factor for our move, actually.) I do have contacts within this state's school system for educational advocacy. She began as an advocate for her own severely LD children (3, bless her), and has been so passionate---and successful---within this district that she was offered a job. She has been instrumental in gaining changes and ramming new proceedures through. What an invaluable resource for advice and encouragement she has been for us. I know dd would not be where we are without her pushing us to keep plugging away. I can see if I can pass on her contact info, if you like. She is always searching for children to help, and is adamant that LD and GT provisions are equally needed in modern education.

Good luck, and let us know how you are coming along. And know that either decision you make takes equal amounts of courage, commitment, and trust to be successful.

eilowny---

I don't expect schools to be able to deal with this issue. I know that schools are busy, they are overstretched and underfunded, and they have to do what's right for the majority of kids. (I don't believe they do a great job of that, but that's a story for another post.) That's fine, and I don't have a problem with it, but don't expect me to put my kids into that system when I know that they don't fall into that majority in any way shape or form.

There's a theory that highly gifted kids can thrive in any environment; let my lack of sucess in life stand as a testament to it's falsehood. I did things as a small child that... well, let's just say I was a strange and scary little girl in a lot of ways. I've never held a job that paid more than $5.75 an hour, and I've rarely been happy. I am sucessful at breastfeeding, and that's probably it. Only time will tell if I am a sucessful parent and educator. I want and expect better for my children.


9 mos, huh? lol I think dd was not much older than that by the time she mysteriously accessed my baking supplies. I was convinced the latches were faulty for the longest time, before I got a clue and caught the little scamp breaking and entering. :eyesroll

Ds was an angel in comparison. Dd couldn't stay penned in anywhere. We would find her outside in the mornings, rain or shine, reading stories to the dog. :D

It sounds like saying your school experience was bad is an understatement. I, too was labeled "gifted", but not until fifth grade. I was put into an advanced reading group in fourth grade ("Swiss Family Robinson" was not my idea of a fun genre---I much preferred "The Hobbit"), but I actively resisted having reading deadlines placed on me. I read because I loved to read, not because I was told to. Sucked all the joy out of an otherwise excellent literary work. I think I suffered from the classic achiever's syndrome: I had been the top of the class for so long, without any expended effort, that by the time I was presented a challenge, I shied away from it. I stayed in the program for one year, then I dropped out. The next year, I began to fail all kinds of classes out of boredom. I know I sorely tested my parents' and teachers' patience and understanding that year.

Thankfully, I started middle school the year after that, so was agin presented with more challenging classes. I managed to get special dispensation to begin language courses a year early and placed out of a couple of lower-level courses. This pattern was great---until we moved into a much more affluent (ie. challenging) school system. My grades dropped at the same rate as my self-esteem. It wasn't until I got to university that I finally felt at home both academically and socially. (At which I maintained a 4.0 GPA, tackled several complex courses of study, and was accepted ready to be accepted into a graduate program in preparation for a career as a university Art History prof---yet I threw it all away because I was daunted by the amount of real work it would entail. I have always felt like a failure since then, and have no one to blame but myself.)

You know, I, too, didn't realize the source of my angst while growing up until we realised dd's unique mental capacity and the problems we have to overcome. I firmly believe our past experiences as gifted children is a double-edged sword, though. One the one hand, we are in a unique position to understand from personal experience (or trauma :p) the kind of social stigma attached to GT kids. On the other hand, I think it colors our view of school situations with the fears and failures of our own pasts. I am trying to walk the razor edge and find the balance between protectiveness, activism, and allowing teachers to come up with some of their own solutions to dd's voracious appetite for knowledge. *sigh* It's not a very successful endeavour at the moment, but I'm working on it. At least we're dealing with teachers, a principal, and a school system that is willing to be somewhat flexible, and what she isn't gaining in the classroom (which doesn't seem to be much), I try to provide at home.

I think that's all we can do for our kids. It's not only my obligation, it's my priviledge. Thank you so much for sharing with me!

[LeftField]

Have any of you seen the highly sensitive tribe or read, "The Highly Sensitive Child"? I'm half-way through the book and it's really resonating with me. It seems like a lot of it is muddied by introverted characteristics. It also seems like there's spill-over into gifted issues. These are children who can be moved to tears by a performance. They are highly creative children who live in their private worlds. Mine does not cry at performances, but he is extremely creative. Any object in our house, ATM slips included, are basically raw materials to him. He brings me random pieces of cardboard and says that it's a digger's shovel. And there's just the fine-tuned perception of details that results in being overwhelmed. I'm finding the book interesting. I was wondering if any of you are familiar with it.

Here's the website with a questionnaire:
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test_child.htm

[quietplease]

Hello, I am a long-time lurker (I think I spoke earlier in the #2 thread), but I just wanted to comment on the kindergarten topic. My gifted son is in half-day public kindergarten, and I'm not that crazy about it. I am a former teacher myself, and I do think the teacher is doing a great job with the class as a whole, but frankly DS has not actually learned anything new this whole year. A lot of the focus is on social development, which is fine, except that DS is kind of like a little adult so he doesn't really need a reminder to keep his hands to himself and not call others "poopy-head". They do have reading groups, but even though they put him in the top group it was far too easy for him. We finally got them to arrange instruction at his level. They are doing 1:1 correspondence up to 30 in math, but DS has been adding and subtracting and doing fractions at home. Those topics aren't addressed at all in K, so he will not get any math instruction at his level at school until next year. Overall, he likes K because everything is easy for him, but we want him to be challenged. The gifted program in our district is aimed at the profoundly gifted; DS has started testing, but I think he falls into the more moderate category and will probably not qualify. I am willing to try 1st grade at this school, but I am seriously considering homeschooling, since I"m pretty much doing it already.

Based on this experience, I will choose K for my younger children differently. If they are typical in development, the standard program will be fine. If they are as gifted as their brother, I am going to push hard for more adaptations to their curriculum early in the school year or just homeschool them myself. I will not just go along with the whole "K is a social development time, academics aren't pushed yet." thing because DS *loves* to learn and he needs new academic challenges just to be happy! I assume his siblings would be the same if they are also gifted. Anyone who thinks giftedness will even out in 5th grade is a total idiot; this train is moving forward pretty fast and I don't see it slowing down in the future!


Britishmum, I have read a lot of your posts and you have quite a set of challenges since your daughter is twice-gifted. I would think twice about holding her back for social development, since holding her back would just expand the gulf between her knowledge and her classmates' knowledge. A child who is prone to act out is going to do it even more if they are bored. I like the idea of the creative school that has a lot of parent participation. I suspect they'll be a lot more flexible than a typical school.


It frustrates me that finding an appropriate placement is so hard, and by and large I can't discuss it with a lot of other mommy friends because it might come off like bragging or whatever. My own sister gave me the line about, "Being too smart for school is not a REAL problem." AARGH.

[eilonwy]

My own sister gave me the line about, "Being too smart for school is not a REAL problem." AARGH.

:Hug I hear that crap all the time, but never from my family. I guess we're all living proof that it can indeed be a real problem. :bag:

Miss BooBah has not taken another independant step, but she is cruising actively, walks if you hold both hands, and has started to talk like a person (so that people outside of the family can really understand her). She's also learned to open lids. Now I have more things to worry about her eating. :LOL

I'm really glad that she digests her food, though. It's really freaking cool to me. :thumb

[Monkeymom13]

LeftField---Thank you for the link. It not only describes dd perfectly, if genetics are a factor, it explains me, as well. I have long been plagued with embarrassing tears while listening to music. Sappy movies and phone commercials usually don't phase me, but give me a sweeping violin crecendo and I leak like a seive. :blush I'm embarrassed to say, but I even cried on stage once (cellist in a orchestra). It was awful, with the runny nose and blurred vision... :bag:

quietplease---I, too, have been faced with...misunderstandings and misconceptions...from my own family. My own parents, actually. It's devastating in a completely personal way when those whom you count on for unconditional acceptance and support spout of the same garbage as the general public.

I realise my father, who has always been wise in my eyes, has had little education in the developmental psychology involved with giftedness (as is the case wit most of us ;) ). So, I have become an advocate within my own family. Even to my husband, as much as it pains me to say. He has to have information presented to him in a specific way, and he has to come to understand it himself---not have it explained to him---or he flatly rejects it. Classic divergent thinker, the textbooks say. Pure stubborn male, I say. lol

I broke down and emailed a select few articles (only about 4) to my parents that explain the reasons behind giftedness, and most especially the necessity of testing for and nurturing it in special ways. Exceptional measures for our exceptional children. Then I went a step farther and pleaded my case; please, please , read these, skim them, pick up the salient points, and apply them to your very special granddaughter. Then realise that we need all the suport and understanding you can give. I told them, "I can do this without you, but it would seem so much easier if I know you are with us." Worked like a charm. ;)

[eilonwy]

I went to that Highly Sensitive Person site. My kids and I aren't really, though I kind of lean in that direction; the self-quiz bears me out. ChibiChibi, however.. I answered true to all 23 questions with no trouble at all. :( But we already knew that. That's why she's so miserable so much of the time. *sigh*

I've got a question: this might sound a little weird, but I'm accustomed to dealing with highly and profoundly gifted children. So what do you change when you're dealing with slightly or moderately gifted children? I'm pretty sure that ChibiChibi falls into the moderate range (although I may be underestimating her because a) she's not a great reader and b) she's had a fairly traumatic life to date). Are there sites specifically aimed at parents of moderately gifted children?

[dallaschildren]

I hope this is ok to ask here, but I just saw this thread and have been wanting information I can't seem to find. How do you know your child is "gifted"? Were they tested and if so how and where do you go for something like this? I have been wanting to see if everyone is right about our DS # 1. I happen to think he is one smart kid, but then again I'm his mama. :love
Should I list what he can do and would you gals tell me if I should have him tested, or if it is "normal"? Any help is appreciated.
Exhausted and hauling my booty to bed...I will check back in on this thread tomorrow. Thanks.

[lckrause]

Are there sites specifically aimed at parents of moderately gifted children?

I believe the regular section of Hoagies (e.g. not the Highly Gifted page) is directed towards garden variety giftedness. Actually most "gifted" message boards I've found are for MG issues. I had to search high and low before I found a board for kids who were more than one or two grade levels ahead.

[lckrause]

I hope this is ok to ask here, but I just saw this thread and have been wanting information I can't seem to find. How do you know your child is "gifted"?

In my son's case, he was writing letters before 18 months and reading at age two, and in my daughter's case she was drawing recognizable pictures by 18 months (although academically she seems more mildly gifted). I'd trust your instinct. If your son seems gifted, he probably is! Welcome to the thread. :)

[eilonwy]

How do you know your child is "gifted"? Were they tested and if so how and where do you go for something like this?

Depending on how old your son is, there are some sites around with "markers," things to look for which may indicate giftedness.

In our own case: I was a profoundly gifted child, my husband is slightly/moderately gifted. I have two profoundly gifted siblings and two highly gifted siblings; my mother also falls into the profoundly gifted category. In other words, thanks to my family history I had my eyes open to the possibility.

My son said his name at his 4 week WBC; I thought I was nuts until I took him home and he did it again, for my mom, my sister, my best friend, and my husband. He also said "nurzh" (what "nurse" sounds like without any teeth) the following week, and started collecting words at a ridiculous rate after that. He said "Eli nurzh!" at 7.5 weeks, and if you don't think he knew what he was talking about, think again. :LOL So he was exceptionally precocious verbally.

He started crawling at 6 months, which I thought was average until just a few weeks ago (more on that later) but it's apparently on the early side. He cruised at 8 months, stood at 10 and started walking well and comfortably around 11. All of his physical milestones were at the high end of normal.

I think what really threw me for a loop was a) his attention span, and b) his communication skills. Even before he spoke like a person, he could get anyone to understand him. He'd also sit for hours looking at books, or his beloved maps. (He said "National Geographic" at 14 months or so! :LOL) He remembers everything. Over the weekend, we were at the IL's. MIL took a box of tea out of the cupboard, and my son said "That was at Aunt M's house!" We had gone to Aunt M's for Christmas Tea on the 27th of december, and she did indeed have that particular variety of tea on her table. He hasn't been there or seen her since. He does stuff like that all the time; he remembered his cousin, whom he hadn't seen in nearly a year. He remembers which buttons to push on the dvd player and remote to watch Sailor Moon. He knows all his shapes and colors, loads of animal sounds, and every day he manages to surprise me with something else he's picked up.

At 27 months, BeanBean knows his phone number, the city we live in, where his grandparents and my mom live, and the name of his doctor. He can tell you where his father works and what he does, and what you're likely to see if you visit him there. He recognizes his letters, but I don't think he knows the sounds that all of them make-- I could be wrong, though, he's quick. :LOL In combination, along with my family history, I think it's fairly safe to assume that he's gifted. My guess is that he's highly gifted, but as he gets older that may change.

My daughter is seven months old; she has many words, including her brother's name, "nurzh," i love you, and "clean pantzh." She sings along with her father and I and appears to have rhythym, which would make her the first member of Mike's family *ever* to have rhythym. :LOL She cruises with one hand, has been crawling for nearly three months, and can stand independantly. (I have pictures of her c