What can a birth atendant learn from UCers?

[paloma]

how can I better assist families?

[fourlittlebirds]

I'm going to think about this a bit before I answer, but I have to say that I'm not sure how well I will be able to, because I think so little in terms of attended/assisted birth anymore. I would be more inclined to come at it from a different angle: what have birth attendants learned from UCers? Pamamidwife could probably write us a book on this. ;)

Jan Tritten wrote about how she felt after her unintended UC:

"This few minutes was one of the most glorious high points of my life. [...] About 10 minutes later my dear partners arrived. The problem was that because they had missed the birth they came in chatting and excited. The energy and commotion pierced and stole my bonding time. I felt guilty for wanting them, my best friends, to go home. I could feel this critical time, our first hour of falling in love, slipping out of my yearning grip. I never recovered that first hour. It taught me on a cellular level how to behave when a new baby graces the planet. The birthing room is sacred ground. The first hour is a most holy time and space."

[pamamidwife]

I feel like I *could* write a book on this topic, however right now I'm' going out to breakfast with my family. Perhaps I'll write more later.

[paloma]

Mmmm, breakfast. I just shoveled two feet of drifted snow. I am still trying to find my car in all of this.

Thank you for responding. I hope that I never chat too much or make anything about me. I try to be super sensitive and never forget what an honor it is to be there.

Also, I know that people are not necessarily inclined to complain or exactly put their finger on what is wrong.

If I were to do it again, I would go unassisted.

[amyjeans]

"This few minutes was one of the most glorious high points of my life. [...] About 10 minutes later my dear partners arrived. The problem was that because they had missed the birth they came in chatting and excited. The energy and commotion pierced and stole my bonding time. I felt guilty for wanting them, my best friends, to go home. I could feel this critical time, our first hour of falling in love, slipping out of my yearning grip. I never recovered that first hour. It taught me on a cellular level how to behave when a new baby graces the planet. The birthing room is sacred ground. The first hour is a most holy time and space."[/i]

kinda OT
That quote, brought me to tears. How eloquent and exact she was in that statement. I am sitting here holding Sydney and remembering that first hour. That very first hour was indeed sacred and perfect. I was at the peak of my existence at that moment.


Thanks for sharing that Blueviolet.
(I need to read more of her writing- do you have any links? :) )

[lizzie]

This is a bit OT, but that quote from Amyjeans from Blue Violet made me think of something..

When I was first pg with my first baby, I was ready to invite my entire family in with us in the "delivery room". My dh was appalled, and insisted it be just us and the docs/nurses. I didn't know what to think of that, but then during and after the birth, I was so grateful for his attitude towards it, that it was just so special, and it was a time meant only for us and our baby to bond and learn about each other and become this little family(we were the only ones there, as per his request). So now.. reading that beautiful quote, I think I've got the best ammunition ever to get him on my side 100%... HIS OWN REASONING!! :love teehee! How can he argue with that?

lizzie

[majazama]

How can I better assist families, you asked.

Well, I think birth attendants should really try and help the pregnant woman to believe in her body's ability, not just try and find things that could be wrong (low iron, diabetes). I would have liked to have someone that I could have really trusted at my birth (first MW assisted). I think she thought I was a freak (which I'm not;)) because I told her at the beginning of my pregnancy that I was considering going unassisted. So when it came time for the baby to be born, I felt like she pushed her weight around to prove that assistance is neccessary. She made me give birth on my back, becasue she said the baby would come too fast if I was standing (as I wanted to birth). I think she was totally *wrong*, and I have a lot of resentment towards her because she made me birth like that.

Basically, my opinion is that women who are giving birth and pregnant are quite a bit more sensitive to all sorts of energies, and when there is someone at a birth who is taking the women's power to make the decisions for her, it really screws up the whole experience. That's just me, and maybe not everyone gets that sensitive, but I doubt it.

Giving birth is such a major spiritual, physical, emotional, and energetical experience, and I think birth attendant should just let women birth, rather than "managing" it. You are so OPEN when you give birth, and it should be respected when I woman wants to do, or not to do something while in that exteremly vulnerable place.

[paloma]

I think that i am realising the magnitude of this, especially when an aquaintance has asked me to catch her baby. ( I will be "allowed" to at a local birth center)

Maybe its my recent heightened sensitivity in the wake of my last birth, but I am caught up in my socks being humbled off (if that can happen) for the first time in my life.

Thank you for the responded. I look forward to continuing it if anyone wishes.

[doctorjen]

As a birth attendant, I feel I have learned a lot of listening to the UCers here. I've certainly tried much hard to get out of a woman's way more, and I'm more sensitive to the mood a family has during labor and birth. I've become very sensitive to the language I use. I have nearly completely given up coaching pushing especially. I also try hard to encourage women to listen to there bodies, and do what feels right to them. This has led to some beautiful births.
Unfortunately, I'm also much more aware of how much of what we do in the hospital is so intrusive in a normal birth. I attend mostly what would probably be seen as "good" hospital births. I monitor intermittently, limit cervical exams, almost never break someone's water, don't do episiotomies, etc., etc. but still, just being in the hospital and having someone there "monitoring" you changes everything. Most of the women I care for could never imagine being unassisted and look to me to provide guidance. Many expect me to "do something" at birth. I've had a few dads especially be disappointed at how little I do!
I'd love any ideas on how to encourage women to be more in control.
We had an OB interviewing for a job at our hospital recently. On of the hospital administrators was showing her around. I attended the administrator's lovely quick birth of a her 4th baby in the fall. It was her only unmedicated birth, her largest baby, and was really wonderful and enjoyable. I sort of sat around in the background until she was obviously pushing, then sat on the end of her bed and helped pass her the baby while she pushed him out. She positively glowed during labor and after, and didn't stop smiling once for 2 days. She introduced me to the OB candidate, and said "This is Dr. T, she delivered my baby!" I just cringed and said quietly "No, YOU delivered your baby. I was just there." She smiled and said "You know, you're right!" And the OB looked at me like I was crazy - so I'm hoping she chooses a different job and I don't have to deal with her!
I'd love to know how to encourage everyone to know they have the ability to birth their baby, and to feel the power of doing something so momentous.
Any ideas?

[alegna]

A little bit of a different perspective here. Only one babe/birth here so far, and it was attended, but the midwife I ended up with (switched at 30 weeks) had all of her babies unassisted, so I can tell you what I think that did for her.

#1. You are an addition to the process. Possibly a positive one. Possibly a helpful one. Perhaps a needed one. Perhaps an inconvient one. It's not up to you whether you're needed or not. It is up to you whether or not you are positive, helpful or disruptive.

#2. We have a powerful inner voice. Encourage women to find theirs and listen to it. It is much wiser than you are.

#3. Women are different. Births are different. Respect that. Avoid standards for the sake of standards.

#4. Most births, if left alone, will go perfectly. If they didn't we would have died out as a species. Don't go looking for trouble.

that's all I can come up with off the top of my head :)

I think you're headed in the right direction asking these questions though.

-Angela

[majazama]

yes, i too am quite happy and suprised that there are birth attendants willing to learn something from us UCers, and not bring us down. :)

thank-you
-------------------------------------------
I guess a lot of the empowering should come from the woman herself, and I realize that a lot of women just don't want to know what their body is doing while they are giving birth and can't fathom the energy that they can channel.

I know a good doctor, who told me that she urges her patients while they are in labour to try different positions, and encourages them to give birth squatting etc., but they for the most part refuse, prefering good ol' lithomy position :eyesroll . I think part of that could be averted by the mother having good info on why it makes birthing easier to squat or go on all fours. Maybe some printouts that they could bring home from their appointments would be a good idea.

I also think that MW's and doctors should really be in tune with their patients, rather than trying to do tests and answer questions from such a cold far-away position. You know, doctor is in charge, patient is below them. I guess I think optimally, pregnant women should feel like their assistant is on the same page as them, equals, friends.

I guess there is all sorts of different kinds of women who birth all in their own way. Some seem to like having tonnes of people around, but maybe they are not seeing something in themselves that needs sacred primative privacy.

There are a lot of things to talk about on this subject, that's for sure!

[paloma]

I have found that even amongst homebirth midwives, there is a lot of difference in how they practice.

[pamamidwife]

My journey with unassisted birth starts back about nine years ago. I was a frequent poster on hipMama, back in the day when there were about 40 or so of us.

I remember one day posting that I had caught my first baby. Suddenly, this woman was there telling me that all the joy and beauty that I experienced escorting that new life into a new world was not meant for me. That it was meant only for a mother and father and that I stole that experience from them.

Thus began a rather immature (on my part) dialogue with Laurie Morgan about unassisted birth.

As a student midwife, I doubt I could really talk about birth in ways that made me feel like it was completely safe or normal. Being in midwifery school often brought up a heightened feeling of anxiety around birth. My preceptor was really anxious right at the time of birth, telling me to get this, do that, do this....it was chaos. This was what I knew of "normal" birth - but in my eyes, it was beautiful because it was different than the hospital's version of normal.

It wasn't until this interaction with Laurie that my eyes began to open. Sure, I was resistant to what Laurie was saying - not every woman wants an unassisted birth! some people want a midwife! I totally missed what Laurie was telling me: that every woman deserves to find empowerment for herself. That my role as a midwife isn't to hand over empowerment to women. I cannot "give" a woman a good birth experience. I can, however, really screw up a woman's birth experience just by being a midwife.

My lessons continued with my dear friend, Linda. We became friends and were instantly smitten - I had never known someone to be so passionate about birth, yet not be a midwife or in midwifery school. Linda talked about the emotional pieces of giving birth, not the mechanics. This is the side of birth that my $12,000 midwifery education omitted.

Linda and I butt heads many times. It took me a long time to get over myself. Even in the beginning, I felt myself wanting to be available to unassisted birthers to "save" them. To "help" them. Because, goddess knows, I had the damn textbooks! I could give them information that they NEEDED!

Needless to say, my ego was bruised many times on that bumpy road!

I went from being up close and personal with women in birth to standing in the shadows. I could see when they needed my assistance - many times, in fact, they asked for me to help (can you imagine??). I stopped assuming that every woman needed ME to be there, to guide them through each and every contraction. They didn't need me - and my director role often made the partners fall back in the shadows.

I have left women's homes during labor. That's right. I sometimes leave. I have an incredible apprentice/assistant who really encouraged me to do this. When labors are slow and moms are feeling like they need to "perform", we leave. Go get coffee. We're not far, but we're out of the house.

I don't come to women's homes in early, early labor often. I will if they ask, but I rarely stay. I usually like to come when contractions are every four minutes. I found that before this time, women are too susceptible to my arrival. The energy changes, there's a noticeable difference in contractions. If I wait until active labor is really kicked in, I can often set up and be in the house without a mother ever knowing it.

Spending more time away from a woman's laboring space has also empowered partners. They do the labor together. In the end, when the six week visit is over, I'm history. The memory should be of THEM doing it together.

My views on perineal support and support during pushing has changed radically from my training. I no longer do much support, if at all. It's pretty quiet during second stage, except for encouraging words from me or my apprentice.

The immediate postpartum experience is different. I'm really working on the "don't wake the mother!" aspect after birth. No more baby hats, no putting a stethoscope between mom & baby. No bulb syringe. I am working towards more quiet, less light during this time. It's hard.

After all my lessons, I'm still learning. I love that I can be challenged in ways I'd never dreamed of. To me, the greatest gift I could receive at a six week postpartum is a woman telling me that they could have done it themselves! Of course, some of my clients go on to have unassisted births, too. :)

I realized, too, that by really seeking out my truth and walking with integrity, I'm empowering myself. Only an empowered midwife can support an empowered woman!

[amyjeans]

:love :thumb
Pamela-
you rock.

[paloma]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Pamela, have you shared this with any publications? I encourage you to do so.

[erindaugherty]

I am doing UC next time because of how I was treated with my first baby. It's on this site under Birth Stories, "A nightmare Birth" or my blog http://mybirthstory.blogspot.com. Anyways, I think a woman should be listened to. I only wanted interventions is there was an emergency. BUT unecessary interventions caused a downward spiral. My advise to a birth attendant is to leave the mama alone unless it's life or death.

Also, when you do need to intervene...talk to the mama and explain what's going on and what her options are. I had a 45 minute surgical repair without anesthesia I had no idea I had a right to pain control because no one told me the option. If your patient is screaming during surgery, something's wrong. That sounds obvious but I think hospital birth attendants are so desensitized they don't see the obvious.

[majazama]

erin~ OUCH! I guess when you have your UC, you will be sure to only get the the experience that you want.

[sprinkle pocket]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. Pamela, have you shared this with any publications? I encourage you to do so.


:nod your post reads like a really nice base for an article! thanks for so humbly sharing your thoughts.

[fourgrtkidos]

Any one want to revive this thread with some more thoughts??? It changed my view of midwifery.

[Aura_Kitten]

nak!

:thumb pamamidwife ~ you're superneato! :thumb

for me ~ and from what i've seen of others ~ women who choose to birth unassisted are fiercely independant, free-thinking, women, with deeply personal reasons for choosing freebirth.

with that said, i think the single biggest thing a care provider can learn from uc'ers is to listen to the pregnant mama and respect her wishes. if she doesn't want to be touched, don't touch her. if she wants to be loud let her be loud. and so on.

women's bodies are made for this motherwork ~ starting w/ growing babies & birthing them. your best jumping off point: respect that truth.

[paloma]

I think the worst insult I was ever given about about a birth is that I was a hero and that I saved the day. It was an alternate presentation and they were way up in the mountains. I needed to reconcile that they needed someone there to feel safe. After the birth was the time to solidify that they did it all themselves.

[homemademomma]

Spending more time away from a woman's laboring space has also empowered partners. They do the labor together. In the end, when the six week visit is over, I'm history. The memory should be of THEM doing it together.

My views on perineal support and support during pushing has changed radically from my training. I no longer do much support, if at all. It's pretty quiet during second stage, except for encouraging words from me or my apprentice.

The immediate postpartum experience is different. I'm really working on the "don't wake the mother!" aspect after birth. No more baby hats, no putting a stethoscope between mom & baby. No bulb syringe. I am working towards more quiet, less light during this time. It's hard.





pam, i agree with you 100%. as a student midwife, i see and do so much that i feel is unnecessary. suctioning, stethescopes, perineal support- i really feel like we do that stuff because we want to feel useful and needed, kwim? its really really hard to let it go.


friday night/sat morning i went to abirth of a mother who has already had 12 children, including 2 UC births (one of which was a stillbirth). her last baby was born at the birth center, as was this baby, because she felt that with her high parity and history of PPH she wanted extra help, just in case.

anyway, her husband has caught almost all of theirc hildren, and her oldest daughter (who wants to be a midwife), was going to catch with the father. my precepter had me get my hands in there too, because, as she put it, " im the one who is going to have to suture if they mess up!"

sigh. i think the main thing UC'ers can teach us as birth assistants is to let go of our egos. stop doing so much at births. TRUST birth. give the experience back to the parents startig at the first prenatal visit.

[pamamidwife]

I hear you, homemademama. In my training, I was required to listen to baby right after it emerged (even though it was impossible to hear heartbeat because of the SCREAMING baby!!), suction and put a hat on the baby right away.

I found this great article (http://www.withwoman.co.uk/contents/info/tofeel.html) by UK mw Sara Wickham (whom I love, love, love) that explains it so well...

From that article:

Yet, after thinking about all of this, I am left to ponder the question that bothers me the most. Whether or not we do things like this as a regular part of our personal practice, why do we feel we need research evidence to support the argument for not intervening? In a model of midwifery that assumes normality, I would assume that midwives would need to see evidence that something is useful before incorporating it into their practice, not the other way around. Have we become that uncomfortable with the physiology and normality of birth that we would rather intervene than not? Are we so fearful of litigation that we feel we need to “do” rather than “be with”? And are these practices really so ingrained in us that we feel compelled to continue them on a routine basis unless – or until - they can be proven unhelpful?


This, to me, is the biggest fault of modern midwifery care.

[rajahkat]

[QUOTE=
I'd love any ideas on how to encourage women to be more in control.

I'd love to know how to encourage everyone to know they have the ability to birth their baby, and to feel the power of doing something so momentous.
Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

Cool Thread!! I really wanted to respond to this. I think this is something that needs to happen throughout the woman's pregnancy. It's sure not going to happen in labor if she's been conditioned to believe the attendant is going to DO/FIX/CONTROL everything!

I think something as small as wording (emphasizing what SHE will be doing, not what the attendent will be doing TO her) transfers focus and power back to mama.

Stop talking :) And see what she has to say. Recommend books that emphasize mama-led birthing, whether attended or not.

If she comes to you with a problem, BEFORE you offer a suggestion, ask what she thinks she should do, how does she feel about it, etc.

Talk to her about births you have attended where mama WAS in control, caught her own baby, etc. So that she understands that those things are even possible. It's amazing how many women don't even consider the possibility. :(

I hope this helps a little. I don't really know what goes on in a birth attendant/mama relationship, as I've never had one. But I DO believe there is a place for you ladies, so keep up the good work!

Kat- mama to Alder(9/6/01-couplesUC) & Banyan(5/7/04-solobirth) (http://rajahkat.tripod.com/)

[harmonymama]

I haven't had a UC, but am considering it next time around. My input is: Recognize how much power your words have. Objectively speaking my MW for my last birth said very little. She is a good midwife, but... She arrived 5 minutes before the birth, but the words she did say are stark and fracturing in my memory. On the phone with my husband, they kept discussing how I needed to lengthen out my contractions, because they were short, and I was probably still in early labor. I, on the other hand, knew that I was in active labor and rapidly approaching transition, but they couldn't seem to get it. (I think timing, and trying assess where labor is at, when to come over, etc., is an underestimated way that attendants undermine the natural birth process and mother's innate wisdom. As much as I got out of Bradley, there is this sense that others outside need to assess where mama is at in labor, by emotional sign posts or whatever, as if she herself couldn't possibly know.) When she arrived, she said something about getting the pitocin ready, because things were going so fast. That comment really disturbed my focus and intruded into the sacred atmosphere. It put me on my guard and I said to her something about putting that away unless I really need it (I didn't). Then she suggested I labor on my back so things would go faster (things were already going fast enough!) I associate laboring on my back as very disempowering, even humiliating. I responded, "I'm not going to labor on my back!" Her comment made me mad enough that I summoned the energy to get up into a squat. She was wisely quiet after that, but her intrusion continued after the birth. She asked me three times to cut the cord, even though I kept telling her no, because it was still pulsing. She was also pushy about breastfeeding, made me feel like I was doing something wrong, because my baby was not interested in nursing for close to an hour, even though I was an experienced breastfeeding mother and La Leche League member. I don't write all this to badmouth my MW. She is not a bad person or a bad MW, and had no ill intentions. I just share in order to demonstrate how sensitive mama and baby are at a birth, and how seemingly innocuous intervention can really undermine the natural process. Next time, I think I'd rather not have to be on guard against intrustions.

[mum at home]

My second birth experience was a VBAC and I had all the usual hangups about whether I could do it or not. The hospital midwives were very concerned about following rules - after my waters broke they checked the heart beat after every contraction (I refused frequently) and were timing me as to how long they would let me labour for. This put such a lot of pressure on me. The thing I remember most about my private midwife (who in Australia has no authority in the birthing room and can be asked to leave like any support person) was looking at her when I was close to transition and saying "I don't know if I can do this", and having her look me straight in the eye and say "yes you can!". She knew what my fears were beforehand and how to respond during the labour in a way that would be positive for me - this was more important than the medical knowledge she brought along.

During my homebirth with her, she was mostly hands off, although she did check the heart beat a few times. This was quite annoying - baby was moving a LOT during the labour, and she couldn't get the heartbeat so I had to reassure HER that everything was fine. By the time baby arrived I was starting to get concerned because she was. The main issue was that she was worried about a breech birth (even though it ended up head first) and her fears transferred themselves to me. So I think as an attendant, you should really think about whether you should be in the room if you are worried about the choices the mother has made, as your insecurities can pass themselves to her.

[TRIBE]

So I think as an attendant, you should really think about whether you should be in the room if you are worried about the choices the mother has made, as your insecurities can pass themselves to her.

Exactly!! If you as an attendant do not trust the birth process or even the postpartum period immediatly after birth, GET OUT! Those fears and insecurities definetly transfer to the mama and mess with her energy and flow.

Pamamidwife--If you don't mind could I ask you a few questions as I see you are working really hard on stepping back even after the birth. I just need some of your insight/wisdom when I have a lenghty talk with my midwives about their behaviour after my birth.

In a waterbirth, do you strongly encourage (err command) the mama to get out of the water so baby doesn't get cold? Is there anything that says the baby has to get out of the warm water immediatley?

What are the benefits or repurcussions to strongly encouraging (err again commanding) mama to deliver her placenta even if she doesn't feel ready to?

All the baby procedures that are attached to the "standard of care" model, how important are they to perform immediatly after birth to protect your liscense? Couldn't you say delay all of those for the first hour or two and still be "safe"?

Thanks and sorry for somewhat going off topic, I just feel its important for me, as a previous UC-er, to pass on some wisdom to my medwives but in a way that wouldn't be confrontational (which I am feeling that I would be very confrontational right now)

[pamamidwife]

In a waterbirth, do you strongly encourage (err command) the mama to get out of the water so baby doesn't get cold? Is there anything that says the baby has to get out of the warm water immediatley?

No, the mom stays in as long as she wants. I don't monitor the temperature of the water, as I just suggest that the temp be what the mother feels comfortable in. We don't even put a hat on the baby. I trust that the mother's intution and care for her baby (she loves that baby more than I do!) will lead her to get out if she thinks the baby is too cold or ask for a towel/blanket.

Think about it this way: most babies are born into room air. In a typical hospital, that means about 70' if they're lucky, it's usually cooler. In a homebirth, many mws pump up the heat to near 78' or so (at least, it seems, until everyone there is sweating). Even water that is 78' is pretty cool. In fact, I'd venture to say that not many moms birth in water that is 78'. It's usually much warmer.

Babies don't seem like they're affected by the water temp much. One thing I notice is sometimes it's normal for waterborn babies to take awhile to breathe or to pink up. I think this is because of the warm water on the cord - there's no shock to start it constricting like it does when it's exposed to air. So, in turn, many mws could interpret this NATURAL slow-to-pink-up process as being abnormal, i.e., the baby is cold.

What are the benefits or repurcussions to strongly encouraging (err again commanding) mama to deliver her placenta even if she doesn't feel ready to?

Hemorrhage, partially separated placenta, retained placenta, retained placental pieces. Nature is not going to allow a woman to just "forget" about her placenta. It's only an emergency to get the placenta born when it is partially separated - that is, part of the placenta has come off the uterine wall and there is blood pouring out of the mom. Because part of the placenta is still attached, the uterus cannot contract to slow the bleeding from those vessels where it detached. This is an emergency situation that means the placenta must come out immediately.

Other than that, I cannot imagine why a woman would be rushed to birth her placenta...especially if she cannot feel it or doesn't want it hurried.

All the baby procedures that are attached to the "standard of care" model, how important are they to perform immediatly after birth to protect your liscense? Couldn't you say delay all of those for the first hour or two and still be "safe"?

What do you mean? Like listening to the heartbeat? I don't touch the baby for a good hour or so after the birth. Even then, it's usually just to hold the baby while we re-wrap it after mom gets out of the tub or gets up to shower. If a baby looks great, I'm not going to listen to the heartbeat with my stethoscope! There's no regulation that says I have to suction the baby or do everything right away.

We usually do the newborn exam as one of the last things before leaving - around an hour and a half after birth. By then, babies are getting sleepy and don't mind us doing silly things like measuring their heads, etc. I've also left without doing a complete exam, just check baby over in mom/dad's arms and did the exam the next day. Not ideal, but I don't want to disrupt what is going on if baby is awake and aware.

Thanks and sorry for somewhat going off topic, I just feel its important for me, as a previous UC-er, to pass on some wisdom to my medwives but in a way that wouldn't be confrontational (which I am feeling that I would be very confrontational right now)

Here's a great quote from wise UK midwife Sara Wickham (http://www.withwoman.co.uk/contents/info/tofeel.html) that I recently found so true - and every mw should read it:

Yet, after thinking about all of this, I am left to ponder the question
that bothers me the most. Whether or not we do things like this as a
regular part of our personal practice, why do we feel we need research
evidence to support the argument for not intervening? In a model of
midwifery that assumes normality, I would assume that midwives would
need to see evidence that something is useful before incorporating it
into their practice, not the other way around. Have we become that
uncomfortable with the physiology and normality of birth that we would
rather intervene than not? Are we so fearful of litigation that we feel
we need to “do” rather than “be with”? And are these practices really
so ingrained in us that we feel compelled to continue them on a routine
basis unless – or until - they can be proven unhelpful?


Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's time for a revolution in midwifery. I'm hopeful that we can do it.

[TRIBE]

Think you Pam! You answered me with what I needed. Just one more question, are there any links to help support that mom can safely stay in the water with baby as long as they are comfortable? My water temp was 98-99 F so I know it was plenty warm in there. As well as links on allowing the mom to birth the placenta in her own time, unless in the event of an emergency? I think having something to back me up other than just my say so would help out when I talk to the midwives this week.

I love that qoute and I am now reading all over her site. Thank you so much! :)