why is it "OK" to call someone a "BF Nazi"?

[ksmeadowlark]

I was hosting a social event in my home tonight and one of my friends is dating a surgical resident. We were talking about childbirth, etc. and I then asked him a general question about the attitude toward breastfeeding in medical school. He let out with some comment about how "breastfeeding Nazis" try to teach them that any mom who doesn't nurse is a horrible person. And then he asked me if they had "harrassed" me when my DS was born.

It took me a moment to gather myself and to explain to him that I am an active member of LLL and a breastfeeding advocate. Then he changed his tune and pretty much tried to make it sound like he actually WAS pro-breastfeeding. OH BROTHER! He also thought that BF moms were not allowed to have any alcohol (and he has been through OB/GYN rotations).

I am really offended when anyone throws a term like "Nazi" around casually. But more than that, I am sad to see that this guy represents the future of medicine...

[luvinlivin]

He actually represents the past, present and future of medicine!


Kinda like those ghosts in A Christmas Carol.



Anyways, his comments are ever so common for his studies. And b/c someone has been through OB/GYN rotations doesn't mean that much in terms of 'first do no harm' or a real understanding of the success of hundreds of thousands of generations of natural birthing, breastfeeding women. Obstetrics is a surgical specialty so he probably liked the cutting and stiching parts.

As my father (a surgeon) used to joke about his OB/GYN rotations, it was basically 'grab a mitt and catch' or 'cut 'em open'. SAD but true. He doesn't know anything about the beauty of birthing, breastfeeding or the hormonal supports between mama and babe.

I do hope your friend recognizes how misogynistic his comments were...he could be one of those men who enjoy breasts for sexual stimulation but do not find their capacity to keep a human alive that fascintating at all.

Sorry you had him around in your home...

[kerikadi]

If there is one thing I have learned is that gOBlins know next to nothing about breastfeeding. Having worked in a surgery center with many doctors I can tell you they are truly ignorant. I was constantly surprised by the unnecessary, planned cesareans and formula feeding doctors and nurses.

Keri

[Meiri]

Uh, yeah, we're building fenced compounds for the FF as he speaks, NOT.:splat

What a jerk.

[Chi-Chi Mama]

well, it's bad enough that so many doctors are so ignorant about nursing (and think that just because they have an M.D. at the end of their name, they know everything, in and out of their specialty)

but to use the word 'nazi'???????????? :angry

that word is thrown around so lightly these days..

anytime i hear it, i try to somewhat gently remind people what "nazi" really means, just in case they slept through some history classes. my grandparents remember first hand what it was like to be in the middle of WWII. my grandma still has a piece of metal stuck in her leg from a bomb blowing up several feet in from of her and has lost most of her family in concentration camps. i grew up reading so much about the history and the atrocities committed by the nazis. anyway...

it usually turns the conversation sour, but i'm never sorry, because i know that person will likely think twice before saying "nazi" so lightily in the future

[yogamama]

I agree! Breastfeeding Nazi and Femi-Nazi are my two pet peeves. How can people say things so lightly??

[DeChRi]

Wow, ksmeadowlark, you are way more polite than me. I take that as my cue to lay into em! Good for you for noe shruggin him off!

[merpk]

If you run into this guy again, e-mail me. I've got phone numbers of several people with numbers tattooed on their arms who can instruct him about what exactly the term "nazi" stands for.

Not to mention many, many more people who never knew grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.

What a jerk. The medical profession's finest. :rolleyes:

- Amy

[pawprint]

Hey all;

A lot of my friends say Breast Nazi. I don't use it liberrally, but fall into the catagory. However, if that's the worst thing anyone ever calls me...
Still poeple should be more compassionate about those who did suffer at the hands of the REAl nazi's.

[Momtwice]

Using the word Nazi this way is NEVER ok with me.

It really makes me mad when NURSING MOTHERS say it.

If a doc says it, it strikes me as defensive. They are threatened by the power and knowledge of the strong, educated women who are bf advocates. So they attack them. Nice.

[LunaMom]

When I hear people speak this way, it angers and saddens me at the same time. Angry that people will trivialize the Holocaust in that way, by using the term so lightly, and sad that people who want to promote something that is loving and healthy for our children are compared to heartless murderers.

Did I forget to mention that it makes me feel sick, too?

[mtn. mama]

I agree with Momtwice that is used defensively by a med. professional. But how professional is that?!

[miriam]

Dearest Mothering Friends:

Please remind your very professional medical friend that the use of the word "Nazi" in this context is very inappropriate.

Please tell your very well-educated, well-read, professional medical doctor friend that there were plenty of DOCTORS who cooperated with the NAZIS in the concentration camps.

The most famous of all was DOCTOR Mengele, the "angel of death".

My favorite comment by the late great Dr. Robert Mendelsohn is that "higher education" is a misnomer; it should be "longer education". Many people lost the ability to think on the basis of common sense after four years of college. He said that he himself would have to shed some of his arrogance sometimes.

When you start throwing around strong terms like "nazi", the term tends to lose its original meaning, and mean nothing after a while.

[candiland]

OOps. Thank you for bringing this issue into the light. My sister calls me the Birth Nazi - I'm way into natural birth, homebirth, midwives, etc. - I'm a doula and childbirth educator, as well. It's been a joke for me lately.... I even signed a post on a different board "The Birth Nazi":o I did not truly sit and think about this word I was throwing around so carelessly.....

[marymom]

this is truly one of my big pet peeves. I am on this breastfeeding taskfoce where they actually refer to each other as BFing nazis, the other one I dont like is militant. What is militant about BFing? It makes me sad to see women who are sincerely trying to advocate and educate others using terms like nazi and militant to describe a manner of positive BFing advocasy/support.

[miriam]

bump

[Ravin]

When you say "militant bf advocate" I get this vision of a troop of mamas with babys in slings holding rifles to the heads of mama w/ babies in strollers holding bottles saying "relactate or else!" A bit absurd.

[Quirky]

http://www.militantbreastfeedingcult.com/index_a.html

[megtell]

oh my goodness....

I think people have forgotten (or never knew) how terrible the Nazis were (and are)......Maybe it's from the Seifneld Soup Nazi thing? I don't know.... but it's very hurtful.......

[Sustainer]

Do you think I shouldn't have used the term "Nazi-ism" in this other thread?

http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55871

[Viola]

It offends me on several levels. It is used to insult people by inferring that they are intolerant, dogmatic and willing to promote their ideas by any means. The people who wield the word mean it to offend, but I feel like they are doing a disservice to those who have suffered under Hitler and the true Nazis. Hitler is also a name bandied about quite a bit--if someone doesn't like what a political leader is doing, he/she might be compared to Hitler.

So I resent the fact that these terms have undergone this sort of linguistic adaptation so soon after they came into being. I mean, it's one thing to call someone a Geghis Khan or an Attila the Hun; they just don't carry the same emotional weight, even though the speaker may mean them as slurs. To call someone a Nazi, however, makes light of what the true Nazis did and is an insult to those who survived the Holocaust.

What also offends me is that even if you don't mean to literally compare someone to a Nazi, but just use the word to mean intolerant of other ideas, the person using the word is the one who is guilty of this. When I've heard the term used, it is by people going on the offensive without any attempt to understand what they are criticizing. It really bugs me when someone who has never been to LLL and knows nothing about the group uses the breastfeeding Nazi term in regards to that group. LLL is there to help people, not to hurt them, and leaders will give information about weaning regardless of whether they think the mother should be doing it or not. Leaders have to volunteer a lot of time and effort, yet they get attacked just for trying to help those who come to them for help. It's ridiculous. Sorry to get off on a tangent, it's just I've heard the Nazi thing said about LLL.

[Momtwice]

"LLL is there to help people, not to hurt them"

Amen sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[miriam]

bump

[KiwiZ]

My feelings are hurt when people say "You're not a BF Nazi, are you?". I'm not a pushy person (if anything I need to be more assertive sometimes!) because I don't like it when someone is pushy to me. I see nothing wrong with asking friends "Are you going to breastfeed?". I've even helped friends through problems and shared why bfeeding is so healthy and they thanked me afterwards.

For some reason, a lot of people think that bfeeders will be all in your face if you don't bfeed. I've never met any pro-BF like that. They just state the facts and are very supportive. If a friend chooses not to BF, I'm not going to judge them, but I do encourage them to BF.

I guess a lot of people are just really uncomfortable with bfeeding cuz breasts are so sexualized in the US?. If a penis can be used for peeing, making babies and having fun, why can't a boob be used for fun and feeding babies as well? Why must a body part have only one use? To me that is the core of the problem

[Messy Nessie]

this hurts me as well... i have struggled along with several other first time moms to breastfeed. i provided them with help, support and advice for nearly 6 months. now that we are all nearing that 6 mo mark, most of them are considering weaning... needless to say many are coming to me for help and resources. i always try to have a conversation about their reasons and the benefits of continuing before going into weaning support... a few have gotten nasty and refer to me as the "n" word... its sad that we are friends and i have gone out of my way to help them and we can't even discuss something simple without them getting defensive about their choice and name calling...

so very, very sad.

[GeorgiaGalHeidi]

Nope. never o.k. This is so offensive on so many levels. I have gotten bashed on some other boards for voicing my disgust over the term. :( Oh, and doctors get no BF training from what I have seen! Lots of times, their entire education on it is courtesy of their wife or personal experience. Also, I wuld not expect a surgeon to know squat about it--they really do not cover it at all. Maybe breast augmentation, but not lactation, LOL. ;)

[sntm]

I agree that I hate that term, more because it pigeonholes anyone who is BFing supportive into a classification of "fanatic". Though my husband fondly refers to me as a militant mom almost daily.

On the whole, the guy sounds like a jerk (hum, have I worked with him????) but in mild defense of his statement, one of the cultural quirks of doctors, particularly in surgery, is a caustic graveyard sense of humor. It's a survival mechanism when in the trenches. Unfortunately, many people lose their social skills over time and don't recognize when it is inappropriate. So hopefully he was just a social clod and not a total idiot. No promises, though...

[rareimer]

it always bugs me too. for the obvious reason that it belittles the horrors that so many people went through at the hands of Hitler and his Nazis. but also that it belittles the passion so many women have when it comes to breastfeeding. we don't try to educate people and advocate for breastfeeding because WE benefit, we do it because we truly love the relationship we have with our babies, and want to help other mothers give the best to their babies as well. that makes us militant? nazis? it's ridiculous, disgusting, and extremely offensive.

[RachelGS]

Never. Nazis were responsible for torture and slaughter. Breastfeeding advocates are promoting health and bonding. No similarities whatsoever.

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

exactly what robyn said.

[Clarity]

Yeah, Alice, I do think that was overboard. I have often remarked about the use of the term nazi here, and people usually take it very well. Though I didn't see that post at the time.

I don't like feminazi, bf nazi, authenticity nazis, calling police officers nazis, none of that. A substitute I would have found more acceptable is fascist. Which encompasses a lot of oppressive-type behavior without referencing the Nazis. Since there was only one flavor of Nazi and there have been a lot of different kinds of fascism.

But honestly, for BF, advocate, activist or "lactivist" are better desciptions for me...since many people expect an activist to be passionate about what they believe in. Misusing the word Nazi is just a way to try to discount the truth, accuracy or (com)passion of the women who support bf. Hmmm...perhaps we could start throwing around the term Formula Feeding Fascists. (if it's good enough for my baby, it should be good enough for yours too! It's so scientific and sanitary, not contaminated by humans! ) Not productive, but it amuses me.

[misfit]

Maybe if one replied...

"Breastfeeding Nazis?!? Oh my goodness, you mean they ship millions of non-breastfeeding women in cattle trains to concentration camps and either starve and work them to death or murder them in gas chambers? Who is allowing this to happen!!!!"

...it might drive home the point.

[Sustainer]

If a penis can be used for peeing, making babies and having fun, why can't a boob be used for fun and feeding babies as well? Why must a body part have only one use?

A penis IS a sex organ, though, and a breast is NOT. The only biological purpose of the breast is to feed babies. When it is used in foreplay, it is no different that when any other non-genital body part is used in foreplay.

Oh, and doctors get no BF training from what I have seen! Lots of times, their entire education on it is courtesy of their wife or personal experience.

Actually, from the way they talk, I think they must get their breastfeeding "facts" from the formula industry.

[OwensMa]

Nazis were responsible for torture and slaughter. Breastfeeding advocates are promoting health and bonding. No similarities whatsoever.

Well said!

[*Erin*]

It offends me on several levels. It is used to insult people by inferring that they are intolerant, dogmatic and willing to promote their ideas by any means. The people who wield the word mean it to offend, but I feel like they are doing a disservice to those who have suffered under Hitler and the true Nazis. Hitler is also a name bandied about quite a bit--if someone doesn't like what a political leader is doing, he/she might be compared to Hitler.

So I resent the fact that these terms have undergone this sort of linguistic adaptation so soon after they came into being. I mean, it's one thing to call someone a Geghis Khan or an Attila the Hun; they just don't carry the same emotional weight, even though the speaker may mean them as slurs. To call someone a Nazi, however, makes light of what the true Nazis did and is an insult to those who survived the Holocaust.

What also offends me is that even if you don't mean to literally compare someone to a Nazi, but just use the word to mean intolerant of other ideas, the person using the word is the one who is guilty of this. When I've heard the term used, it is by people going on the offensive without any attempt to understand what they are criticizing. It really bugs me when someone who has never been to LLL and knows nothing about the group uses the breastfeeding Nazi term in regards to that group. LLL is there to help people, not to hurt them, and leaders will give information about weaning regardless of whether they think the mother should be doing it or not. Leaders have to volunteer a lot of time and effort, yet they get attacked just for trying to help those who come to them for help. It's ridiculous. Sorry to get off on a tangent, it's just I've heard the Nazi thing said about LLL.
:clap
excellent post. i totally agree.