Reforming spankers Unite!

[BelovedBird]

I am interested in uniting with other newbies to complete gentle dicipline- no resorting to spanking. No threatening to resort to spanking. I need some partners in this challenge!

I want to learn how to use Nonviolent communication (http://www.cnvc.org/main.htm). Is there anyone who wants to join me?

I would love to find some Mothering sisters who will not roll their eyes when I say "I am proud that today DS was following me around whining that he wanted to play at his friends house for a half an hour, even after we I had explained to him why that was not possible, he started kicking things. I kept asking him to stop. I was ready to tell him he would get a potch is he didnt stop being violent (ok so I'm rolling my eyes at myself !) BUT I DIDN'T ." I told him to go calm down and come back to me when he was calm. I think I couold have empathized more....

Anyway, I would love to connect with others who are in the same place as me on this.

-BelovedBird

[kibrah]

I am in the same stage as you are with this. I would love to have someone for support. i think that support is crucial during this transition. I know that gentle disipline is best, but it is a difficult transition to make. I was raised with spankings and all the people I know raise their children with this type of disipline also, so they roll thier eyes when I try to talk to them about gentle displine. Switching dh over is becoming the hardest part. Every time I try to talk to him about it his response is that he got punished that way and he is ok.

[merpk]

Count me in.

It's been going well for me, still a challenge on a daily basis, but really becoming almost easier and easier almost ... it's been several months since my last cave-in, but still it's like starting over every single day ...

DH is a challenge ... he just doesn't get it. He was raised with abuse, and used to know better, but seems to have forgotten all his good intentions ... but sometimes he's "malleable" ...

I agree, it would be nice to support each other without feeling like there's any judging going on or lectures in the works ...

As an aside, my brother quit smoking 15 days ago. As he said, he still wants a cigarette, but he doesn't want to smoke. And that no one but a former smoker would understand (and I am a former smoker. I understand.)

The analogy fits ...

Support is a fine thing ... :thumb

- Amy

[LavenderMae]

:)

[tarablesue]

Wow! I am in too! I am having trouble converting DH , he is really a loud person by nature and it reflects in his disipline big time...and I am not so innocent also! I would love to have the support too.. I don't want to spank my child, but sometimes I don't know what else to do!
Also, I know support helps as in the smoking thing, I am too a FORMER smoker and just being able to say that is all the payoff in the world!!! IT FEELS GOOD! And I want to FEEL GOOD About the way we disipline our child(ren)!

[Viola]

I'm in with you guys too. I try to be positive and then there are times I just lose it. I often yell, but have occasionally hit in those situations, and I hate it. I feel like I need anger management classes or something.

[luvinlivin]

:OT

Amywillo, what did your friend say about you influencing her to breastfeed? Your original thread never told us what happened and a bunch of us really wanted to know!

Can you repost that thread? Hope that's not too much trouble.

Sorry for the Off Topic all.

[LavenderMae]

?

[joesmom]

I'll join in. I do not often spank my son; never hard enough to leave a mark, but I hate lashing out in anger. Thanks for this thread, Beloved Bird. We can all help each other!!

Love, Jenny:hippie

[BelovedBird]

I am glad to see I have some joiners to this thread!:D

I have been trying to be mindful of the words that I am speaking.

I showed DS (5) the list of feelings once when I was reading the site. A few days later he came back and asked me to read him the feelings again. If we both can remember to use words for our feelings I think there will be less tantrums and yelling (on both our parts)

Lets keep each other updated. How is everyone doing?

All the best!

-BelovedBird

[LavenderMae]

:)

[RileysMom]

What a boost to see this thread.

I have a wonderful, beautiful dd that is 15 mo. I've really been struggling lately and had a long talk with dh last night about this. I really believe in gentle discipline and so does he.

My biggest prob is that I was physically and emotionally abused as a child. I thought I really had a handle on it and want to parent *completely* differently than I was parented. What scares me is when she is being difficult (having a tantrum, crying for long periods (She's teething) or something like that) I really start to feel like I'm losing my temper. It makes me SOOO sad that I actually *want* to hit her.

This is really hard for me to admit and it makes me feel like a terrible mom and a failure.

We have such a bonded relationship....I stay at home, she sleeps by us....we are just usually really in tune with each other. She's not super spirited and is actually pretty compliant most of the time.....

I hate that the seed of "wanting" to hit is in me :( :(

[craZmama]

Happy to see this post, but sad that my dh and I are struggling with this after saying we would not spank our kids (before we had any). My dh as well is very hard to convince about more positive methods of discipline. I have the book Poisitive Discipline A-Z, which I have read, but he just won't. And he won't listen to me or support me...instead he accuses me of not doing anything!

We are fighting about this constantly, and I am sick of him treating the kids badly (yelling, threatening, etc.). Granted, he has been playing with them more lately, but it usually ends up in disaster because someone does something *horribly* wrong and gets yelled at.

I really could benefit from support in this area.

[reilly's momma]

I think this is a great idea! My son is just 3 mos, but I am worrying about discipline already. Maybe there could be a forum created for this subject, that might be the best way to keep up with supporting each other.

craZmama, I don't know if this would help at all, & maybe you've already tried it, but you could try reminding your husband of his orig intentions (just don't try this when you're already arguing), & if he won't read a whole book, see if he would start off with an article or two. Maybe ask him (again, when not fighting) if he would be willing to give it a try for, say, 1 week, to see how it goes. Good Luck

[LavenderMae]

:)

[hoppytoad]

I'm newly reformed, too. My son is four and I had a baby girl in July, so I can have a completely fresh start with her. I extended BF with my son and held him as much as he wanted. I always go the "mama's baby" comments. I won't be vaccinating my daughter, and I use a sling and co-sleep. It's hard, though, to get myself and my son used to a different way of discipline. Sometimes I know he doesn't take me seriously now because he's used to the old me following through with a spank if he didn't cooperate. I'm also trying to be very mindful of the way I speak to him, and I try to include him in discussions about how to change his behaviors.

Good to know you guys are out there! Today was a good day. He didn't sleep at nap-time so instead of a punishment, I just sent him to bed earlier than usual so that he wouldn't be so grumpy tomorrow. He also put his pants on backwards and inside-out, and I didn't try to control the situation by making him do it over. We were just going to my mom's anyway, so he wore his pants like that and his baby sister's stretched-out bunny hat, too. :)

Karen

[cassiemc]

Count me in too! I am trying so hard with my ds. He's almost 3 and is such a great little boy. Sometimes, usually when he's really tried, it's all I can do not to hit him. I was also spanked as a child. ALtough I have never done more than a pop on the butt, I can not stand being that kind of parent. I find it is very easy to be this way around others who hit. Lately, it has been more than less and He has started hitting us. I firmly believe in genlte discipline and it has been so easy until recently. My DH is also hard to convince about this. He sees nothing wrong with it I could certainly use the support/suggestions.

[yoga]

I've been thinking abt joining a "survivor of childhood abuse" support group IRL, so this is soooo perfect! Thanks, BelovedBird!

I'm doing pretty good w/no spanking, but I need to curb the yelling now. I'm a loud person naturally, especially when I get emotional abt something. I was physically and emotionally abused as a child, and I have a hard time not taking my kids' behaviors personally (either positive or negative). I'm working on this aspect of myself, but when I'm having a bad day, it's hard.

But, lately, I just play w/them for a little while each day and try to totally absorb myself in them and what they're doing and that really sets the mood for the rest of the day. I'm able to really see them as just kids trying to make their way in the world, and it's helping our relationship.

BTW, I have 4 and 2 year-olds and a 6-month-old. I noticed that I was more tolerating and easy-going when I just had one kid. Has anyone else noticed that they seemed to really lose it once kid #2 came along? It adds a whole new dimension to parenting...

:hippie

[mama of 4]

Oh it is so hard!! I was very lucky to have had a very loving and non violent upbringing, and it is still hard not to lose it with my kids. I have four boys, and we are homeschooling, and we are together all the time. What I find hard is when they fight with each other, and it just wears me down, and then I lose it with them and I start to shout at them. I soooo don't want to be lijke this, and I wake up every day saying that I am not going to yell today.... I think I am a reallyu creative, warm, loving
om to them, so I only hope that the 80% of the time that I am doing really well with them will somehow make up for the 20%, but I really don't kbnow. I think we set such high standards for ourselves as moms, that it is almost impossible to live up to them. It is good for me to see all you other wonderful, loving Moms struggling witht eh same issues, cos I thought I wa the only mom who believes in all the stuff at Mothering (extended breastfeeding, sleeping togethe, homeschooling etc) that yelled at my kids!! I'm serious!!

[Allie]

I agree whole heartedly about being non-violent in disciplining a child. I think it takes discipline on the parent's part to deal with children as they go throught the natural course of immature coping with wants/desires. This is my position on spaking... which I learned from my dear mother.

When my brother was about 2, and my mother about 24, he was doing something naugty and in anger my mom swatted his bottom. He fell down and slid in the wooden floor and caught a splinter to boot. She was mortified. She vowed that she would never discipline when she was angry. Here's how spanking went at my house of four children (3 boys and me the only girl). Whoever was in trouble (and often all of us were), we were given the boundaries and a choice to obey or disobey. If we ended up disobeying, we were told to go to my mom's room to wait. She took that time to get a wooden spoon and calm herself. She would come into the room, explain why I was going to be spanked and asked me if I were sorry. Of course I sobbed the entire time. She bent me over her knees and I was spanked 3-5 times. I got up to motherly arms who held me and stroked my hair. Sometimes we were sent to our rooms to calm down, with a warmed up rear and after a good cry went to sleep which helped our attitudes immensely.

I respected my mom and KNEW that when she said something, she meant it. I feared the consequences but knew that it was MY choice as to whether or not "I" would get myself a spanking. My brothers and I were any normal kids but I heard so often how well behaved we were from other adults. This made me feel very good and want to be well behaved.

To this day I am astounded at what children say to their parents and that the parents let them. I would never have gotten away with that kind of misbehaving. We worked my mom to the best that we could to get away with things but we knew she was on to us. Mostly, I remember my mom hugging me and not spanking me. I knew she loved me and that she was giving me the best gift of all - responsibility for my actions. It doesn't happen overnight but as a mom, I want to teach my daughter this, even if it hurts a little.

Spanking isn't the answer for every child. You have to know your kids to know what works with them but I think if we focus on spanking as a disciplined action (by mom or dad) to accomplish a discipline of our children (when appropriate and after other styles of negociating are used), we will find that spanking is just another mode of guiding our kids in the course of life. Better now while they are small than when they are teens to learn this lesson.

[13moons]

I just wanted to say well done to all of you reforming spankers! It is so important that we respect our children and their little bodies.
I have found that focusing on the logical consequences associated with all behaviors to be one of the best ways (although not always the easiest) to teach them which behaviors are appropriate.
For example, the logical consequence of being kind to your sister is that she will be inclined to be kind in return (usually), the logical consequence of making a mess is that you must clean it up, the logical consequence of hitting your brother is that you will be removed from the place where he is until you can treat him with respect.
It is basically a more advanced lesson in cause and effect and getting spanked is not a logical consequence to any behavior. If I, as an adult, throw my clothes out of my dresser, I have to pick them up later. If I hurt someone's feelings at work, I have to deal with that person not wanting to talk to me or being angry with me or whatever. But there is no one around to follow up even my worst mistakes with a spanking.
Our children are perfectly capable of learning the effects of their actions too, especially if we take the time to discuss these effects their actions have on themselves, the people around them, and their environment.
Non-violent communication is such a valuable tool for us and for our children. Even if we don't spank, chances are many of us yell too much or threaten too much or otherwise use intimidation as a way to control our childrens' behavior on occasion. The more we learn to communicate in this more positive and productive way and teach our children to communicate this way, the less need we have for other methods of discipline.
My job as a parent is not to control my children; it is to teach my children to control themselves.
(Sorry for the length!) :rolleyes

[merpk]

Allie, welcome to the forum ... :) :wave

After reading your post, I just feel the need to say, though, that I don't want to have spanking as a mode of discipline even as a last resort, and am trying to eliminate it completely from my repertoire. Personally I don't feel it's an acceptable "mode of guiding my kids through ... life," and have found that whenever I have resorted to it, it's because I lost my temper or lost self-control (are they the same? :confused: ) and I don't want to do that anymore, and particularly don't want my inability to control myself causing pain to my children.

And that's why I'm hanging around this thread.

DH needs this support, too ... I feel like the stronger I am with it, then maybe he'll learn to do it, too. Hope so, anyway. Or maybe I just have to spank DH. :p

Chaka, our kids are the same ages. And yes, two made me a crazy person. Interesting how with three I'm returning to sanity ... or so I hope ... though I'm beginning to think there was some PPD thing happening after #2 came along ... 20/20 hindsight, you know? Have you thought of that? Did you feel that PPD was involved at all? It's such a stressful thing, it would almost be ... expected. And I was so horrible to DS#1 ... but that really started when I was pg with baby#2, and poor DS#1 was not even 2 ... omg I'm having a guilt attack. Gotta go eat ice cream.

- Amy

[BelovedBird]

Originally posted by amyrpk
Allie, welcome to the forum ... :) :wave

After reading your post, I just feel the need to say, though, that I don't want to have spanking as a mode of discipline even as a last resort, and am trying to eliminate it completely from my repertoire. Personally I don't feel it's an acceptable "mode of guiding my kids through ... life," and have found that whenever I have resorted to it, it's because I lost my temper or lost self-control (are they the same? :confused: ) and I don't want to do that anymore, and particularly don't want my inability to control myself causing pain to my children.

And that's why I'm hanging around this thread.

Cool Amy! Because that is exactly how I feel and exactly why I started this thread:D

RileysMom-
I know what you mean and how you feel. It is hard to feel like a cr***y mother. As others said to me, if I was truly a bad mother I would keep doing the yelling, spanking and not worry and not try to get better, not be educating myself.

Here is another thread that I had started awhile ago, for background:
http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11416

Chaka-
My kids are 5 1/2, 3 and 9 months. For me it got bad after #3, after #2 I was pretty okay. Ds#1 was a real sweetie and cooperative, etc. until he turned 5/ #3 came along, not that I am blaming him for my bad parenting but that was when it got hard.
Also, after #2 I had knee surgery and was recovering for awhile, so I think the having to not do stuff made me calmer. Also we moved to the states when he was a baby....

:love

-BelovedBird

[yoga]

Originally posted by amyrpk
I'm beginning to think there was some PPD thing happening after #2 came along ... 20/20 hindsight, you know? Have you thought of that? Did you feel that PPD was involved at all?

Definitely! I thought abt some horrible things after #2 was born...and I know I was depressed, but I guess trying to handle the horrible thoughts in my head AND my oldest were too much for me to handle. My poor baby! And to think that I planned #2! So I take full responsibility for what I put him thru.

But I get depressed during every pregnancy. I'm learning how to deal w/that, but it just makes parenting more difficult. I'm hopeful, tho, that subsequent pregnancies and births will be much more positive experiences for our family.

I know that when I have spanked, it was b/c I felt like I was losing control. Isn't that stupid? Losing control of self=losing control of kid=spank kid to regain control=really feel out of control

It's a no-win situation. :(

As far as spanking w/love...that's an oxymoron. If you love someone, you don't want to hurt that person. Granted, you will sometimes, but it shouldn't be a conscious decision. And, not to jump on Allie, but I don't think it's loving at all to put your disciplinary decision on a child's head. It is not right to make it seem like the child is in control of what happens, when, in fact, the adult is the one who will be administering the punishment. That's mind-games.

I don't spank anymore. This is what I say to myself when I feel like losing it. That's the kind of mom I am/want to be. And, like I told dh, adults can't go around hitting each other just b/c others don't behave the way we want them to. (even tho we want to sometimes!) We have a responsibility to teach our kids now, so they will have an easier time of it (hopefully) when they become adults and parents. These children don't belong to us, they belong to the universe.

[autumndawn]

Hi! I am totally with all of you on this one. I have three little ones 4 and under, and they are TESTING me! The baby is as sweet as anything, but the 2 1/2 and 4 year olds get into trouble and then laugh about it together! Partners in crime! Point is, I feel extremely overwhelmed with them and their discipline problems. I don't feel that I have a handle on them, and so when the kids really act up, I feel there is nothing left to do but spank. I have also found myself becoming more and more physical with them in general lately, as if the older they get (and heavier, and can make up their own minds, and can't be picked up and made to do what I want them to do), the more I need to physically MAKE them mind me. All of my instincts tell me otherwise. I want and had planned to be a gentle parent, to talk through everything with my kids and treat them with a ton of respect, but I find myself doing the opposite most of the time lately. I would like some support, suggestions, etc... to turn myself around and stop being such a crappy parent!

So happy to see a thread on this site where I don't feel judged! I've been coming here less and less as I've had a harder time with my kids lately.

[craZmama]

autumndawn, you sound like you are going through what I did when I had my third baby. I relished my time with her, and every time I looked at her, all I could think was "joy".

My 3 yo and 2 yo on the other hand.....:rolleyes: They got into EVERYTHING all of the sudden after the baby was born. I felt like I couldn't trust them anymore. There was a major change in their behavior and maturity. I could always rely on my oldest to be good when left in a room alone, but suddenly I had to monitor her every move.

I went through a lot of depression and really out of control days. Sometimes I literally had to lock myself in the bathroom so I didn't take it out on them.

Now that I have four kids, I have learned to hear a lot of crying, fighting, complaining, etc. My dh still can't deal with it, but I am normally a very calm kind of person, and I am with them 24/7.

-- Allie--

Not flaming here, but I truly think some people either 1. can't stay calm and spank lovingly or 2. really just don't want to discipline that way. My parents always claimed to be in control, but I knew they weren't.

Another thing, every kid is different and needs a different response. And what is the response teaching them? Some parents like to be in control of their kids...my dh is like that; then the kids get in trouble all day long. I would prefer reprimanding, using natural consequences and logical consequences, and seeing my kids learn to make good decisions.

Just a thought to end on: punishment and discipline are two different things. Punishment is negative, discipline means disciple or TEACH.

[G-Dawg]

This was a very comforting post to read! I don't know why we always think we are the only moms who make mistakes!

My husband and I both agree on no spanking. Until someone needs a spankin' of course! No, I think the support is a very good thing!:thumb Good luck everyone!

[Megs Mom]

I'm in! DD is only ten months but I want to absorb what I can before I need it! :D

ETA: G-Dawg, :W

[yoga]

This was brought on by Autumndawn's post, but it's really for anyone who finds it helpful:

Play w/your kids more. I've found that when I spend 30 min or more just focusing on them and playing w/them, they either don't seem to demand so much of my time later or they're not so annoying to me later (don't know which one it is, but probably the 2nd). I find that being a SAHM, I have so many things I need to do around the house and other things I want to do so I don't feel like I'm drowning and losing my "real" self, that I forget to just play w/ my kids. I throw them attention all day long, but if I don't get down on all fours and pretend I'm a dog that's gonna eat them, or something, they clammer around me begging for uninterrupted attention all day.

After all, playing is how they learn. And I want to teach them that they matter more than a sparkling toilet (even tho I might not feel that way at the moment!).

:hippie

[autumndawn]

i'm so happy to hear all of these great suggestions, this is really inspiring me...

i've read a few mentions of PPD. I've been really wondering about that myself lately. as well as being completely overwhelmed with my kids lately, i've been feeling slightly down and antisocial, shutting off my answering machine, etc... i've really been losing it with my children about the smallest things. a peeing accident on the rug will set me off sobbing and yelling. i feel totally on edge about everything. i've spoken with my doctor about it and he thinks antidepressants and counseling would help. i'm breastfeeding and don't like the drug option, and feel i should change my life if i'm unhappy with it.

anyone else who has comments about the connection between PPD and anger with their kids?

[Megs Mom]

Chaka, good call. It's so hard for me to get down on the floor and play when there are dirty dishes, though! I know, however, that you are right.

autumn, it does sound to me like it could be PPD. There are meds that are OK for bfing (Paxil and Zoloft are preferred, Prozac is doable), but you could probably benefit from therapy only as well.

[G-Dawg]

AutumnDawn-It sounds to me like PPD, but that doesn't mean that you need meds! My husband was a Pharm. Rep for a year and he sold Celexa (anti depressant) They are so unneccessary most of the time! There is no way to know if they are safe for nursing mothers, because they don't test them, how could they? I asked my husband about it (I suffer from PPD as well) Things that have helped me are excercise, drinking a TON of water, Red Rasberry leaf tea, and TALK ABOUT IT! There are also herbs that you can talke to help balance your hormones and I have found that to help. In my opinion 95% of the time, meds are unneccessary and TOXIC! You also have yucky side effects, major nasea, insomnia and loss of any sex drive that you might happen to have at this point!:rolleyes: Good luck! and remember that you are not alone! Oops! Is this totally :OT

[Jahramama]

This is so wonderful because just yesterday me and my son had a very bad struggle with our anger combined. It happens at the end of the day usualy when we are both tired. It is the most horrible feeling to raise my voice to him and it feels even worse when I see him learning the same and treating his sister with anger. From the begining I've focused on communication with my children it is the most important. Sometimes I get sick of saying the same thing over and over (don't we All?). I realize that the longer I can be patient and persistant with gentle discipline My children do the same. They are just begining and learning so much every day, like several have said it so hard to go back and change the ways we've reacted from frustration. I have to remind myself every minute that it is so important now to do every thing we can to communicate instead of being physical, because like others have also said it will be passed down generation to generation. Reflecting is the most wonderful skill to have with children. It is when you only say what has been said or exactly what you see. Like the child is screaming and kicking. You say I see that you are upset and you are kicking and screaming the child attention is usualy grabbed at this point if they don't respond than you would say agian you have a mad look on your face. Continue with reflections until they have calmed down and responded. This is an alterantive to demands to quit and /or spanking. Even with adults this method works in simple conversation. Like; I see that your son is kicking his feet and and this upsets you. wouldn't that make you feel good that someone simply noticed how you felt,and this gives you the opportunity to respond without feeling judged... Children are small don't make them feel smaller, fill them with compassion and undertsanding and they will give the same to you. I opoligize if this might be lecturing since there were suggestions not to. I realy just want help and share things that I have learned. I need support too. every day!
Jahramama@yahoo.com
mother of two Jahsakiah 8/7/97 & Jahkylee 12/25/98
Our children are the next generation , Lets create a peacful future!

[Hushdwhisper]

I've just found Mothering Magazine and it's the resource I've been looking for. I'm struggling with dd (4 yrs) and need all the support in positive, empowering, non-violent, natural parenting I can get! Count me in.
:thumb

[Jahramama]

replying to autumndawn;

I feel that I enter the same realm of depression almost every day. I'm thankful for your words for they get a hold of me right now to know that it must be so hard to feel that way constantly. I totaly agree with the one on one idea of 30 minutes or more or as a group with the children. What helps us is crafts it totaly creates meaning in our play We create projects together and them hang them and we all feel so wonderful that we together made something to smile about. Now my children occupy themselfs all day wiht making crafts. Nature walks are wonder ful too, Is is amazing how the forests or just being out side observing nature can calm a child down, creating peace for a while. It is also a good idea to collect things and make a colage(sp?) when you get home, continuing the serenity. I was also thinking that time away realy helps I'm thinking that, that is probably what you need Autumndawn. You need to plan a wonderful day for yourself things that you love to do that maybe you have'nt done for a while. I feel that the best thing that we as a family do is TAKE DEEP BREATHS! It's truly awsome. no matter how upset my children get it works when I say FOCUS, taKE A DEEP BREATH. THEY DO IT, WOW, Remember mama's to take as many deep breaths. Breathing excersizes do wonderful for mothering. me and my children also try to do yoga as much as possible ( wich is once a week) they love it and if we do it before bed they sleep like newborns. YA' know after sharing all this it helps me to remember that I have to always practice. Thank you for this forum and this website and all the wise mothers.
Jahramama@yahoo.com
Jahsakiah Rey Love 8/7/97
Jahkylee Lila Shine 12/25/98
Our little sunshines getter brighter every day! Yeah

[kibrah]

I have been doing really good the past few days. One thing that helps me when the kids are being real noisy or wild is to think of it from a different piont of view, theirs. Thet have no problem with what they are doing or how loud they are being. That means that it is my problem and I try to talk to them about it and be honest with them about how what they are doing makes me feel. This seems to work for me a lot of times. When they are really driving me crazy I just try to stop and tell myself that they really are not trying to drive me insane .:LOL

[LavenderMae]

:)

[13moons]

Originally posted by Jahramama
... Children are small don't make them feel smaller, fill them with compassion and undertsanding and they will give the same to you.

I love that line!That is so true and so well said. Thanks for the reminder!
:hippie

[kibrah]

Heather, You aren't by yourself. I'm a work in progress to. Some days are so hard that I'm suprised when I look in the mirror before bed that I have any hair left. I was sure that I had pulled it all out through the course of the day.

[llme]

Hi all, I didn't think this discussion was for me because i never spank, but then I have yelled so much and raged at my daughter when she was 3 to 4. I now have a 2 year old ds, and I am trying to hard to control my anger. I feel a lot of guilt over my dd because I was so sick when I was pregnant with the boy, I didn't spend much time with her when she was not in school. Then the first year of his birth I was soooo tired. Now she has pulled away from me and reads all the time and says her father understands her better than I do, and is more feeling and loving towards her.
I also want to reply to Allie, and please try to believe I am not attacking you. I read your reply in another post almost word for word as advice to a mother who was having trouble with her ds. I know that some of the women were going to report you to the moderator because this is a gentle discipline forum. Now, instead of thinking about how you can do things another way from how you were raised, it comes across like you have found another forum to try to justify your spanking. I understand these are women, like myself, who want to work on our anger towards our children, and try to change our parenting to something more positive. This could be a great opportunity for you to have a dee look at yourself and see why you feel your spanking needs to continue, rather than look at how you can try other ways of being. sorry if this comes across as preachy, it just really struck me that you are still trying to push your "spanking as love".
Lisa

[autumndawn]

I think that Allie should be able to voice her opinion without feeling like she may be turned in to the moderator. I think she is just offering us another view of discipline, and whether or not anyone else agrees with it or not, fine, but she just put it out there. I'm not up to date on the rules of these threads, but if she is not saying anything harmful to anyone, let her state her opinion without fear of being thrown out! maybe she is here because she is curious about more positive forms of discipline anyway. I think we should try not to be judgemental of eachother.

[MirandaW]

I'm a reformed spanker and working on becoming a reformed yeller too. My kids are so much happier now that they don't have to fear I'm going to lose my temper and hit them.

Last week, my four year old asked: "Mommy, why don't you spank anymore?"

"Because I have learned all hitting is wrong. Even spanking"

"What if I do somthing that makes you really mad?"

"Hitting is still wrong"

"What if you really want to spank us?"

"I can try somthing else when I'm really angry. If I feel like I have to hit somthing, I will hit my arm."

She was so happy that she now tells everyone that when she is really mad at someone that she will hit her arm instead of her brothers or sister. I just thought that it was so cool that what took my 29 years to figure out, she understands at four.

I love seeing how my kids trust me more. I still have to work on the way I speak to my children, especially at night, But they tell me that I am so much nicer to be around now.

[merpk]

autumndawn, I agree, Allie has every right to voice her very legitimate feelings ... and the "Gentle Discipline" forum is the perfect place for it. It's got everything she needs, and is specifically the place on MDC where we all discuss discipline issues and work out gentle parenting questions, and spanking in any form is a regular part of the discussion.

I responded as I did because this particular thread is about people who no longer wish to spank at all. Zero. Zip. Nada. Nyet. No more.

Would love to hear more from Allie and everybody else on MDC ... and would love on this thread to get more support from people who did once resort to spanking but have resolved to spank no more ...

:)

- Amy

[craZmama]

autumndawn:

I am responding to your post about closing yourself off and losing it with your children over little things. I have felt that way on and off since I had my third child. I don't think you necessarily need meds., but I do know that I felt that way when *I* was frustrated and trying to get things done and was interrupted or just could not get anywhere with the things that I just *had* to do. If I stopped and tried to put it out of my head, I found that it was me, not the kids, and I was able to relax more and feel better about myself and being a good mom.

I still get that way at times, but practice has helped immensely.

[tpcat]

I would love to be a part of this thread. After my son was born, I developed Grave's disease and did not know it. I found my temper was horrible. I am a firm believer in building up a child, not beating them down- pun intended. I don't think spanking is right and I have fallen off my high horse only a cpl times and felt horrible about it, never admitting to anyone I did it. I used to hit his hand when he was really fresh, my mother conned me into that and one day he was playing in the back yard with his dad and my dh told me he kept hitting his hand and saying "bad, bad" I guess you can imagine the guilt and horror I felt. I have since stopped hitting his hand and told my mother she cannot do that to him any more when he is visiting her. (I live across the street from my mother and we visit daily.) I have noticed I yell too much as that was how I was raised and I really want to stop that, too. I am grateful to have found a place to where others understand and can help me along. Thanks.
as a side note: I am a big proponent of herbal medicine, have used herbs successfully for years and believe they have saved my life, but be careful. Some can be deadly when taken in combination with other meds, herbal or pharmacuetical, foods, health issues, etc.

[LavenderMae]

Tracy, can you tell me all you know about motherwort? I am going to get some because I have read it is very good for hormonal imbalances and depression. I do not take any kind of drugs but I am bf'ing. Thanks

[llme]

I am sorry if some of you thought I was suggesting reporting Allie to the moderator, and I was not one of the women who did that in the gentle discpline forum. What I was trying to express was that instead of promoting spanking on a forum where women are trying very hard not to do it, Allie might try to look at other ways of parenting, and to look inside herself, as well as all of us doing so, to see why we think we spank/yell at our kids. As we all know, just because we were raised a certain way, does not make it right for our own children. My father raged for no reason when I was little, and after his death, and we were grown, we realized it was from PTSD from WWII. I yell at my kids, and wish I wouldn't, and have internalized some of his rage and way of being. I do not want to continue this way. And having Tourette's Syndrome makes it especially harder, as impulse control is difficult with Tourette's.
Lisa

[craZmama]

Originally posted by Jahramama
I feel that the best thing that we as a family do is TAKE DEEP BREATHS! It's truly awsome. no matter how upset my children get it works when I say FOCUS, taKE A DEEP BREATH. THEY DO IT, WOW, Remember mama's to take as many deep breaths. Breathing excersizes do wonderful for mothering. me and my children also try to do yoga as much as possible ( wich is once a week) they love it and if we do it before bed they sleep like newborns.

Jahramama,

I do the deep breathing with my kids, too. I would love to learn more about yoga...are there any sources online that offer instruction?

[yoga]

:eek I had no idea Allie was reported.. No wonder there have been no more posts from her.

So, how was everyone's week? I've been soooo calm the last 2 weeks, it's scary. I'm waiting to break-down any moment now!

[kibrah]

Today was good but last night was not. We were in the car a lot and this is when they tend to fight the most. Anybody have any advice on how to keep a 10yo and 8yo from fighting in the car?

[mamarosa]

Ok, this is my thread too! My temper: my enemy.
Someone was asking about motherwort. I use it in a tea and find it really does help ease my moods. Things just don't seem like such a big deal. I use about two good pinches of the herb in about 4 cups boiling water. Mixed with some mint or something else flavourful. CAUTION: It can be habit forming, so don't do it every day.


I have managed to cut out spanking. Thank god, it just felt awful in my gut each time. But 'one day at a time', 'cause I know I'm not immune from slipping up. But now I find myslef threatening spanks or some other unpleasantry. Not in an angry voice, but like 'Are you asking for a spanking?'. This is always met with a dropped face, and of course, a 'no'. And I immediately feel like a loser. What is it about children that can bring out our ugliest.

I will continue to try and reform my behaviour. Thank-you for the support from all of you in a similar situation. I will offer my advise whenever I can.

[yoga]

I, too, suffer from the threaten-to-spank urge. I've gotten it pretty much under control, but there are days when I think life was a lot easier when my kids were simply afraid of me. There's so much thinking and self-restraint involved in what I call "real parenting". Some days, I don't feel like exerting all that self-control, I wanna control THEM, doggone-it!

Oh, well... baby steps, Chaka, baby steps...:bang

[BelovedBird]

Rose- WHERE CAN I GET THE HERB?? Ok sorry for yelling, but I really want it, if it will stop my IRL yelling. And is it same while breastfeeding.

Chaka- I hear you totally and you're doing Great!

My two big (5 1/2 and 3) kiddos are home from school now. Today is library day! I will keep my cool the whole day. I will return to this thread after they are in bed and let yu know how it went.

Thank you to everyone who is with me in my struggle!:love

-BelovedBird

[tpcat]

I just want to let you know that motherwort is not safe for use while pregnant, breastfeeding or trying to get pg. The same is true for St. John's Wort.
Thanks.

[kibrah]

I feel so bad. I slipped up and popped dd2 on the bottom yesterday.:crying I did it without even thinking about it, I fellt so bad. I immediately apoligized, and held her til she felt better. I know that there will be slip ups, but that doesn't make me feel better.:crying

[G-Dawg]

I have been working very hard on not spanking/yelling, and I am showing improvement for sure. But, it seems that Hannah is stepping up her efforts to misbehave. So obviously she it testing me. I don't want her to have a free for all, so my question is if spanking is out, then what do you do? I am at a loss. My parents used spanking/beating/humiliating and I would love to break the chain. It has been easy until now. We send her to her room, and that is just a power struggle and she won't stay. I like the idea of natural consequences, but the only natural consequence I see for screaming at me to Shut UP! in the grocery store is a pop in the mouth. Sooo... you can see that I need HELP! Any suggestions?

[BelovedBird]

So we went to the library and had a pretty nice day. I yelled at DS #2 once- he was squashing the baby when we were getting ready to leave and I used an annoyed voice when he got ketchup on the shirt I just changed him into, when we were getting ready to leave,. He had a good answer for me, though, when I told him he shouldn't wipe hands on his shirt. He said " but you gave me the small bib". Which is true, instead of their normal big, towel bibs, which were in the wash, I gave him a short bib. So I said "your right, its ok". We had a nice walk and a good time at the library picking books.
Oh, I used my loud and annoyed voice when I was waiting for the pharmacist to give me the vitamin C and they both went out of the store.
Ok, mabey not so great. I am trying.

-BelovedBird

[tpcat]

I know it is so difficult. My son is currently obsessed with stickers. I have been using the "if you don't behave, I will take away all your stickers" and it seems to working ok for now. Maybe if you find something that you could take away that would make her behave? Just a suggestion. Good luck.
Tracy

[BelovedBird]

There are lots of wonderful resources to be found through this site- read the gentle dicipline forum and follow links there. I could spend hours reading the threads, and I have.

-BelovedBird

[merpk]

... by tpcat
... "if you don't behave, I will take away all your stickers" and it seems to working ok for now. Maybe if you find something that you could take away that would make her behave?

Which brings up something I've been trying to do, which is instead of a negative/negative, it's a positive/positive ...

For example, instead of my usual, "If you don't stop that (whateveritis), Buzz Lightyear (favorite toy) is going to Siberia," I'm trying to "yes" it a little, like maybe, "If you behave nicely, then we can {play/have ice cream/have fun}" or something like that.

Nitpicking, I know, but I find that every effort I make to say something in a positive way keeps me focused on the positive ...

Every day is really ... a challenge ... isn't it?

- Amy

[G-Dawg]

I like the positive-positve idea. We actually did that with Hannah once upon a time, I think it is worth another try.

I tried the taking- stuff -away approach, and she seriously doesn't care! I would tell her that I was going to throw her dishes in the trash, and she would say,"Ok you pick them up and throw them away"

I have to do something, we just had a major meltdown over her washing her hands! I feel like an idiot having a power struggle with a 3yo. I am at a loss, so we will try the positive thing next!

A good website on gentle parenting is the Love and Logic Institute. I think it is just www.loveandlogic.com (w) Maybe I will go there again for some inspiration! My favorite article was on how to tease-proof your kids.

Thank you for the suggestions! Now back to work, and to appologize for my psycho-mommy episode!:eek

[darlindeliasmom]

I am an almost hopeless yeller, and DH and I both think we're the worst threateners in the world--we're totally useless at it, and DD has learned that daddy's threatened consequence for misbehavior is probably going to be absurd. I actually have used that to defuse power struggles in the past. When i can feel some horrible phrase coming out, like, "fine then. I'll just BURN all your toys!" I try to take advantage of my own insanity to say something totally outrageous and impossible...which makes DD stop and then laugh at the absurdity of mommy.

The positive thing works here. today, DD and her little cousin were having a tough time sharing and playing together. the little one was really sick of being pushed around, and DD was digging in her heels on her turf. Instead of the millionth repeat of "play nice", I just said to Delia calmly, "Cara will only be here another 20 minutes. How would you like to spend that time--having fun? or fighting and being unhappy?" You know what? they chose being happy!

[tpcat]

I do like the positive/positive and do feel bad when I threaten to take away his stickers. However, it has never worked for me with Matthew. I don't know how else to do it. I hate to use any negative feedback, but I am at a loss. I need serious help.:crying

[merpk]

It takes so much practice, tpcat. I can't tell you how many times poor Buzz (Lightyear) has ended up in the garbage pail ... and been washed off in the middle of the night when I felt bad about it ...

Anyway, a lot of it for me is mantras. Some might call them affirmations. I just have these lines I repeat over&over&over and when the energy starts to go negative there are those mantras in my head, and sometimes even say them aloud ...

When I first started doing them seriously (specifically gentle discipline oriented mantras) I would just shut down, sit down, close my eyes and say them, and the children would get really quiet, thinking I was ... I don't know what, but trying to figure out what was about to happen ... and then I'd open my eyes and be calm, and they'd be so ... stunned ... that everything just turned around into the positive ...

Looks weird but it works ...

:thumb

- Amy

[G-Dawg]

amyrpk


The mantra thing sounds helpful, what do you use?

We are having a better day today, I am trying the positive thing, it works a little better, we are avoiding full-on meltdown at least! So far so good! I am doing a lot of DEEP BREATHING!

I know in my heart that yelling and hitting only make things way worse, it just takes so much control not to freak out! It does for me anyway! Good luck to all of you!

[reilly's momma]

I have been reading about teaching preverbal infants sign language. Among other things, it is supposed to help cut down on tantrums because they can communicate better. I would think if everyone is less frustrated this would also help in early attempts to avoid violence. Does anyone have any experience with this? I know I am worrying early, since ds is not even 4 months, but I am really concerned about what I can do now. We had physical & verbal abuse growing up, my mom did it to us, & then my brother, sister, & I all did it to each other, & I want to break the chain. Any advise/suggestions for early intervention & what does or doesn't work would be greatly appreciated.

[MarsupialMama]

reilly's momma, it's never to early to start thinking about how you want to relate to your children, even though you may change your mind once you've tried it.

My sister-in-law is an interpreter for the deaf. She says that baby sign language is just that; baby talk. My advice would be to just use real signs. That way your child would be able to use it her whole life.

I loved the idea of being able to communicate with ds at an early age through signing, and being able to avoid frustrations. However, it did not work that way for us. Now, DS is only a year, but so far we haven't been able to get him to use the signs. What I've found with Jonas is that even though he cannot verbally tell me what he needs/wants, he can show me! Jonas loves to point at things. He can get my attention and either take me to what he wants, or point at it. Now, this does mean that I have to pay attention, but isn't that what being a mama is all about?

Also, I think that if a child is having a problem putting their feelings into words, he's not likely to be able to put them into signs either. I think that in a situation where you need your child to be quiet, this would work quite well. However, for the most part, I think it's important for children to focus on learning to speak. I do think that it's a good idea to teach a child to use sign language, but it might be better to start after they can speak somewhat.

Good luck on whatever you decide

[Viola]

I think I spanked the day I posted this. I can't quite remember. I'm not really a spanker, although the instinct to slap comes out at times. I used to spank my nieces and nephews when I watched them. Mostly I am a yeller or just impatient speaker. Sometimes I break down and really yell. Well, one day not too long ago I smacked my daughter on the leg. My husband was watching and he said, "Oh, we're spanking now, I thought you were opposed to that?" I am and have said so numerous times, but he isn't. Then he was like, "OK, thanks for letting me know it's OK now" or something like that, which pissed me off because he has never hit her in anyway, but I was afraid he might start.

Interestingly, I was not angry or out of control in that instance, I just was impatient with her complete lack of respect and I wanted to get the message across in a strong way. All it seemed to do was upset her and make her feel bad.

I have issues with many forms of punishment because as a child I was very sensitive to them and I feel it has affected me my entire life. I just could not take criticism. I was always very honest and tried to please my parents, but sometimes I would do a kid thing and not even realize until after the fact that I shouldn't have done it. My parents would get angry at me, and just the very fact that I had done something WRONG was so upsetting to me because I wanted to be GOOD. I don't know what the answer is, because parents have to set these limits and boundaries. But discipline was more punitive and it left me feeling like I was a bad person.

In general I am very easy going with my child and try and treat her like a person. Sometimes I feel like I just don't give her enough boundaries and maybe that isn't respectful of her. I don't want to control her, but I don't want put too much of the responsibility on her which is what I feel that I do at times.

I still use negative consequences that I feel might have a bad impact later on, but sometimes I don't know what else to do. The punishment I use is time out in the crib, which I know she hates. My husband favors it because her mood does actually change. She will have a screaming fit and then calm down and be happy. The latter two come after we take her out of the crib, of course, and I don't leave her there to rage it out. It is supposed to be a deterrent and a time out for me to get a grip, but I've actually tried to work things out instead of doing that. Still, the threat of the crib works at times. One day we were in the store and she started screaming at the top of her lungs because she wanted me to buy her a cake and I said no. My first choice was just to stop shopping and leave the store, but I couldn't do that because I had committed myself to making dinner for a new mom. So I told her that I couldn't leave the store, I understood she was angry but screaming like that was not acceptable and hurt people's ears. The screaming continued. So then I said in an exasperated tone, "Molly, when has screaming ever gotten you what you want? I'm not going to buy you a cake, but I will put you in the crib when we get home." She actually stopped screaming. I was amazed! The positive-positive thing I use too, though.

Now here is the disturbing part of my post. I forget who it was who said it makes her sad to want to hurt her child. I want to say that I have felt like I really wanted to hurt my child, and the feeling didn't make me sad, just angrier. There have been times I've imagined hitting her until she realized she was in danger and should watch herself. I've wanted to tell her that she doesn't understand that I am so much bigger than her and could hurt her and it is only by my sheer goodwill that I don't. My husband feels like the baby gorillas know not to mess with the silverbacks or they'll get hurt, but Molly doesn't understand this at all. So this feeling of you will do what I say and I can make you come out in me.

Yes, feeling like I want to hurt my child does make me sad, but really more it just makes me is disgusted with myself. The other day we were downstairs and I felt like I was at my wits end. I actually started imagining a scenario where I was hitting her until she understood that I was the boss. I carried it out in my head and figured that afterwards I'd have to put her in the crib to calm down, and then eventually I'd have to get her out and face her and comfort her. The feeling of wanting to hurt her left me immediately as I tried to imagine the remorse and regret I would feel, the disgust at myself as a person, the feeling of trust being broken between us. But I also realized that I would in a way lose a little respect for her as a person because I was able to physically overpower her in this way. I might almost feel like it was partly her fault because trying to face my own shortcomings and feeling so negative with myself would just make me angry.

When people have to deal with other people in inequitable situations, I think they feel a sense of superiority that can take over. Eventually they start to dehumanize the person over whom they have control. When you look at some of the atrocities committed throughout history and wonder how thinking, feeling human beings could be reduced to this, my feeling has always been that it is part of the human nature we must overcome. I think how it must feel to be a prison guard, or a slave owner, or to be in a situation where there is a complete power imbalance. I think that people who abuse their children feel this.

I honestly feel like you can't have a healthy relationship with your child if there is not mutual respect. It's my job to teach and guide and set boundaries and impose consequences even, but I feel like if I start to punish her in humilitating ways we are just going to slide out of control. If I use hitting before I even try and think of something else, it will just become easier and easier to rely on it, and I'll end up like that Madeline Toogood person.

Now I will say that hitting in anger, while a bad thing, has at least seemed explainable. I can lose control and I know I'm wrong and feel like I need to work on myself. What bugs me even more is when parents decide to do it after the fact as a punishment. It just seems so odd to say, "Well, you know what you've done wrong and say you won't do it again, but you must be punished--bend over." It makes me feel oogy. I'd far rather take away a privilege or come up with a plan where the child has to work to rectify the problem. If you give your child a choice to do something or be spanked, and the child chooses to be spanked, what in the world is that doing? It's just letting the child do what he wants as long as he is willing to get hit for it. When I was a kid, I knew other kids who said they would much rather be spanked than grounded.

[LavenderMae]

Amy ,what wonderful insight you have. I really enjoyed your post ,it made a lot of sense.

[yoga]

I want to share this:

A few weeks ago, I wrote a letter to my abusive parents telling them how I felt abt the way they had treated me and that I didn't want to have anything more to do with them. Since I mailed that letter, I have not had even an URGE to hit my kids. Haven't even thought abt it.

For those of us who have been abused, I suggest sending former abusers a note telling them exactly how you feel about what they did. Send all that hate and torture, all that negativity right back to them. Don't worry abt how they'll recieve what you write. I did that for years, and it only kept me from healing. Finally, I realized that I didn't need to concern myself w/the feelings of my parents, b/c they had shown no concern for mine!

I think a major problem spankers who were beat as children, etc., have is the old feelings that get conjured up when dealing w/our own kids. All of a sudden, we're that child, again, but this time we can do something! We can fight back! And who are we fighting? Our own children...not the ppl who hurt us so badly back when.

After sending the letter, we must say to ourselves, "I will NOT hit my kids anymore." Not, "I will TRY not to hit anymore." We must be firm w/ourselves in order to change.

I know that one day, all of us will be able to look back on who we are today and see such change. Not only in the fact that we no longer hit our children, but that we are also so much nicer to ourselves. Because spanking is abt US, not our kids...

[Viola]

Originally posted by Sheacoby

I think a lot of the problem for me is that as a child I was over powered every day of my life. My very abusive uncle was in control of me completely. He even could control when I went to the bathroom.

Wow, that is horrible. I wish you peace and healing. :hug

[Viola]

Originally posted by Chaka Falls
I want to share this:

A few weeks ago, I wrote a letter to my abusive parents telling them how I felt abt the way they had treated me and that I didn't want to have anything more to do with them. Since I mailed that letter, I have not had even an URGE to hit my kids. Haven't even thought abt it.

Good for you!!!

I was lucky in that I wasn't beaten as a child. I was spanked at times, and there were times when even my father lost his temper. My dad was normally very calm. My mother had screaming rages, and I feel like I am following exactly in her footsteps, but I know it's not exactly because I see it is wrong and desire to do things differently.

[MarsupialMama]

I honestly feel like you can't have a healthy relationship with your child if there is not mutual respect. It's my job to teach and guide and set boundaries and impose consequences even, but I feel like if I start to punish her in humilitating ways we are just going to slide out of control. If I use hitting before I even try and think of something else, it will just become easier and easier to rely on it, and I'll end up like that Madeline Toogood person.

I agree completely! It's good to hear someone say that. So often I hear people who want to lord themselves over their children. It's hard sometimes, because this is our first child and we've never seen the results of this kind of parenting. I NEVER want to hit my child, or even make him feel that he is not equal to us. However, I just worry sometimes that he won't have respect for us.

DS is only a year, and though he understands a lot, I'm not sure that he can understand that his actions have consequences, i.e. hitting & bitting hurts mommy, or screaming makes us angary.
I want him to respect me, like I respect him, but is he to young for this? Does this ever work? Has anyone done this?

I guess I could use some help!:confused:

[yoga]

I disagree abt the respect and equality issues. I don't feel that children are equal to adults. I don't feel like they are mini-adults. Well, maybe compared to some ppl :rolleyes: , but not mature adults. I try to treat my children with respect b/c I want them to know that I think highly enough of them as people (respect them, I suppose, but that's not how I really think abt it). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I recognize that my kids have feelings and their own thoughts, and I try to treat them in a manner that shows concern for their thoughts and feelings. HOWEVER, I also recognize that they are not mature, responsible, or very knowledgeable abt life. They do not have enough life experience under their belts to enable them to be self-sufficient. And since I am the parent, my job is to guide them through their learnings (life) w/o inflicting too much of myself and my beliefs on them. So, while I treat them respectfully, there are times when I'm just mom and what they feel or think abt a particular issue is not part of the equation.

They are not my peers. We are not equal, b/c equal means identical, the same. I have seen kids who have been treated like they were equal w/their parents grow up to be the most selfish, insecure, irresponsible, and (ironically) childish ppl I have ever met.

[MarsupialMama]

Well, maybe not equal, but I don't want Jonas to feel that he is any less of a person than us. Is this an unrealistic expectation, or just a poor way to go about it?

I do know someone who was raised this way, and she does seem to have an attitude about herself, and thinks that her oppinion is all important. Although she is A.D.H.D., and an only child.

[yoga]

MM: I understand what you mean. I don't think it's a bad thing to try to keep your son's sense of self in-tact and strong.

The thing abt raising kids is that you can only do your best, and who they turn out to be is up to them (at least, I think so). It's just that everyone has their own idea of what's "best".

I think what you're doing(trying to do) is great. Maybe the lady you know who was supposedly raised that way was not given enough limits and structure. I think the struggle is letting them know that you see who they are, you will try your best to honor that, but sometimes you just gotta lay down the law, and they've got to respect that.

I was reading Sears' Discipline Book and he was talking abt that. In the end, the kid's gotta know who's boss. And a good boss takes his/her employee's thoughts, feelings, opinions into consideration when making decisions that affect everyone.

[merpk]

Chaka, I so agree with what you wrote. & you said it so thoroughly ... respect for our children does not have to mean putting them on equal footing with us. We still have to make decisions for them, and when they make poor choices, have to clean up their messes, and that responsibility right there puts us on a different level.

I don't mean to open a can of worms, but I was on a TCS list for a while just out of curiosity, and some of the stuff there made it seem a little out-of-joint in the respect/equality thing, if you get my point (I'm hoping that this was worded inoffensively, not wanting to upset any of you TCS folks here) ...

- Amy

[BelovedBird]

Ok, it is an accomplishment for me at least! So I am happy. Today I whispered instead of yelling, or even using an annoyed voice lots of times . I pointed it out to Ds and asked if that was nicer. He said it was much better. The one time I did start to yel,l ds said "mommy, don't yell" So I said, "you're right, I'm sorry, I will keep working on not yelling." :D I am proud of me even if noone else is!

-BelovedBird

[LavenderMae]

WAY TO GO Belovedbird!!!!:thumb

[yoga]

Well, I'm proud of you, BB!! :banana

Sheacoby: Hormones are just not our friends, sometimes!:shake

[merpk]

Today was awful. No words for it. DS#1 was just in a mood this morning ... okay until I asked him to please get dressed, and then it all went downhill. Forget downhill. It crashed&burned.

Didn't spank him. Wanted to. Actually felt like I really didn't want to be around him this morning. :( That was the worst of it. And I was none-too-gentle in hurrying him along. :( So don't know if I can say that not spanking him was enough, because I was not gentle.

His tantrums in the morning had been pretty regular for a while :( and always while we're trying to get out to preschool, but usually I just go along wiht what we've got to do without paying any attention, and they had really dwindled to the point where it was generally just some minor kvetching in the morning. But today he was feeling nostalgic for the tantrums of yore, I guess. :(

I feel really crappy right now. Didn't spank him, but still don't feel good about it.

Thanks for letting me vent.

- Amy

[BelovedBird]

((((((Amy)))))))
I'm having a pretty crappy day myself- I have a migraine- totally not condusive to being nice and loving :(

tommrrow is another day

-BelovedBird

[yoga]

Well, I'm in on the "not doing well" thing...

Last night, I threw ds1 on his bed. *sigh* He kept getting out of it, even tho he was really tired and he was crying and crying and I've been dealing w/this for a couple of days now and I lost it a little. *blah* I think the worst part is that dd saw it. Well, this morning, I apologized to ds1 and explained how frustrated I was feeling at the time and then, he apologized for not listening and doing what I said. :crying Isn't he the sweetest? I swear, this kid is great! Sometimes, I feel like I just don't deserve him, ya know?

Ah, well, I'm just stressed right now. And he's four. And, we'll all be better today.

:hippie

[reilly's momma]

It seems to be a bad week for everyone. I have nicknamed this the Murphy's Law Week, if it could go wrong it did this week.

Anyway, Amyrpk, it's great you didn't spank. Don't beat yourself up for what you didn't do right, congratulate yourself for what you did do right. None of us are perfect, & sometimes we just have to take baby steps. Also, you can see what else you need to do, & that's a big step too. :D

[tpcat]

I am reading 1-2-3 magic right now. Has anyone tried this book? The disipline scenario seems to make sense and I have been trying it for the last couple days with some luck. I am interested in hearing if anyone else has tried it.
Thanks

[craZmama]

Ugh! What a BAD day!

My ds is just SO overbearing with his baby sister. She is walking now, and HATES being dragged around and pushed around by older siblings. Well, he has this habit of getting behind her and picking her up. She cries and gets frustrated. He laughs.

Well, he did that, and I yelled at him for it since it was like the 20th time!! Then he went into his room to play with his blocks. I hear a comotion, then dd crying in pain. I go in, she is on the floor with the blocks and bleeding!

I spanked him. I was SO mad and feeling very protective of my baby. NOT a good excuse, but that is what happened. After I calmed myself down and helped him calm down, he says he pushed her and she hit her face on the metal edge of the bed.

He has never intentionally hurt her before, and I am trying to understand this. I did tell him I was sorry for spanking him...I am always telling him that I don't want to hit him or feel like hitting him.

PLEASE give me some advice. I need someone else's insight. I just can't get a hold of this situation and control myself. He is irritating, disrespectful, mean, whiny, emotional, and very energetic. Oh, dare I forget, ADDICTED to computer games. He is five.

I am fine not spanking the girls. I can get through to them and keep myself together. I just don't understand what happens to me with my ds...I want to cherish him, to show him love and affection. I know he needs it. Please help!

[tpcat]

I wish I had some great insightful advice for you, but the only thing I can suggest is taking some time each day to spend with just him. Perhaps he is jealous of the baby and that is why he takes it out on her. Maybe he just needs to feel special to you. Also, during a time when he is not acting up, maybe you could talk to him in a non confrontational way and tell him how the baby is small and need him to help protect her and that his being so much bigger than her makes him alot stronger and that he needs to be extra gentle with her. You must make sure you use a soft voice and make it sound like it applies to all, not that you are singling him out.
I hope this helps.

[yoga]

tpcat: I have not read that.

craZmama: :hug It sounds to me like either ds is getting a bit out of control, or you just feel overwhelmed right now. Maybe a bit of both(?). Does ds need some private time w/you? I remember when my friends dd was 5, she was soooo needy, and df just kept pushing her away. I thought that if her dd could just be alone w/mama for a little while, undivided attention and all, that all would be much happier. I know when my four yo doesn't get some quality listening, he becomes unmanageable and grumpy.

That said, I'm losing it, gals. I was doing soooo well for a while and now, *blah*. I know my kids just need more interaction w/me, but *I* need to clean my house! We moved this past weekend and I can't take all this clutter! I shouldn't be here now, but MDC helps me keep a clear head. Well, gotta go... kids are the neediest creatures on Earth. They're crampin' my style...
:bolt

[adb252001]

I have chosen not to spank our daughter. I was spanked and my in laws think it's okay to spank but, I just don't see any point in it. I've been taking care of a boy who is nowfour since he was 10 months old. I nor his parents have ever spanked him. He is very good at expressing his feelings and doesn't like it when anyone uses angry words. But, he understands why sometimes we do. I will not spank our daughter who is now 8 months and my husband now supports me on this. So count me in on not spanking

[adb252001]

craZmamma hope things are going better. I agree with the take time with your son each day. He probably feels out of the loop. And limit time with the computer. Kids who spend a lot of time on computer and t.v. are more aggresive. He's old enough to understand what is okay and not. Hey, take a break for yourself as well. My special time is when I take a shower or pee. No one allowed.

[merpk]

So my nonspanking is going powerfully well, I am AP mama hear me roar ... but DH just won't get with the program. :( And we've been fighting about it. :( And our apartment is small enough that there's nowhere to fight about it where the kids won't hear. :(
And DH's anger buttons are perpetually on, it seems. :(

So anyway, this morning DS#1's preschool teacher came out of the classroom to tell me DS has been unusually aggressive the last few weeks. He's been hitting and pushing, but she said at least he seems to understand that it's wrong, because he'll say, "Sorry, will you be my friend again," almost like he's testing what will happen.

So I don't even want to tell DH about what the teacher said, because I think he'll just get mad at DS about it. Lot of good that will do. Or he'll blame the class, or the teacher for not paying attention well enough, or ...

Or me for "not disciplining" him.

I've told the teacher about what's going on at home re spanking/not, and she understands the situation, and just suggested today that we try to not argue where/when they can hear. Easy to say, and so completely do I agree with it ... but don't know how to do it, without keeping DH out of the house 'til they're all asleep.

Thanks for letting me vent. And any suggestions on a gentle way to break this to DH would be appreciated, too ... :(

- Amy

[Celestial]

Well, posting to both bump this thread up AND to join you guys.

I'm still reading through the old posts.

I had SUCH good intentions when pregnant with my oldest. I SWORE I'd never spank. I wonder why it is so easy for some people who were spanked as kids to not spank THEIR kids, but so hard for others?

[craZmama]

Originally posted by amyrpk

So I don't even want to tell DH about what the teacher said, because I think he'll just get mad at DS about it. Lot of good that will do. Or he'll blame the class, or the teacher for not paying attention well enough, or ...

Or me for "not disciplining" him.



Uugh! I know what you mean! I get that all the time...my dh just doesn't make the connection. I just say what I am thinking all the time, though. And if he starts to take it out on the kids, I get in the middle...then it diverts his attention to me.

That is probably my biggest problem. I feel the need to protect my kids. I don't know what causes the most damage, though...seeing mom and dad fight or getting spanked.

At least now he is doing it calmly...talking it over with them before he spanks them. And another good thing is when he has threatened them with spanking, and they still disobey, he mumbles, "I don't want to spank my kids". He doesn't understand that discipline may not always produce immediate results.:(

I have been MIA from this board for quite a while, and I am hoping to continue the journey I started months ago....

....good to be back!

[calmom]

I want to be in on this too!!! It's so late at night and I just read through all the old posts and I relate totally. I also wonder why some moms who were hit as children have this great resolve to never hurt their own children and they DON'T. I, on the other hand, was parented by the most loving mom, she never ever spanked me and I just have this horrible temper sometimes, especially toward my first son after my second son was born. I've never been much of a spanker- but I treat them roughly (not that that's any better) and yell. I flit in and out of gentle parenting with my 3 boys. I am on a non-violent communication parenting list and I am constantly reading gentle discipline type books to inspire myself but it just feels hopeless sometimes. I have awesome gentle parent friends irl but I just don't think they understand my struggle. I would love to support and be supported by other moms who are where I'm at.

I know NOTHING about computers but is it possible to turn this into some sort of separate e-mail list? I'm feeling very excited to have found this here!

Christie

[merpk]

tpcat, are you still out there? I just put a hold in the library for "123 Magic" ... but they said it was a video, not a book? Very confused.

Anyway, thanks for the recommendation ...

[tpcat]

Amy,
I am here. There is a book 123 Magic, I didn't know there was a video. You can get it at the bookstore. If you cannot buy it let me know. Send me a private message and I will mail you my copy if I can find it, LOL.:)

[CartersMomma]

I'm new to this thread, but I just wanted to say THANK YOU. I came to MDC as a spanker, and through experience have decided its not the way I want to treat my son. I have appreciated much of what I've read on the gentle discipline board and was happy to find this thread.

I haven't been spanking my son for a few weeks now, but I'm still THREATENING him with it all the time, (because it works at least sometimes)!! And its better than him NEVER obeying me! ARGH!
I hate it every time it comes out of my mouth! I feel like to get him to obey me or to listen to me, that I either have to bribe him with a "treat" (any sort of sugar) or threaten him with a spanking. I know he's only two, still a baby, but it makes me SOOOOOOO angry that I can't get him to listen to me. He doesn't see me as an authority I feel that he should listen to me because I am his mother and I said so. Yeah, unrealistic but thats how I feel.

I think of Dr. Sears re. discipline. I respect him and have read a lot of his books. He talked about having "the Look" or the tone of voice that your children knew meant business. I haven't been able to accomplish that!

Has anybody read the book called "Love and Anger"....I don't know who its by but I saw it on Amazon....the description talked about 'how parents can be so angry towards the children they love so much'. Thats me!! I'm not the perfect loving mom I planned on being :rolleyes:

Anyway, thanks for listening and blessings to all of you moms out there. Have a GOOD day TODAY!

[kaje62]

i started a thread and just found this one. would love all your help on this one. btw i think a full moon is soon.

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48530

[yoga]

Originally posted by craZmama
I feel the need to protect my kids. I don't know what causes the most damage, though...seeing mom and dad fight or getting spanked.
I feel the same, exact way! I have yelled at dh about how pathetic it is that I feel I need to protect the kids from their own father. He never says anything when I say this. He knows it's true. I remember once we got into the hugest fight b/c he wanted to cut ds's hair, but ds was scared b/c dh sometimes cuts his neck w/the clippers. So, he was telling ds to shut up his wimpering and I told him that he was scared. Well, that turned into a "that's b/c you're always coddling the boy" fight, and I know the kids know I'm just trying to protect their feelings and bodies, but I sometimes wonder what the hell I'm teaching them.

I sooo wish I was a quiet fighter. But, I'm a yeller, and dh is, too, when he's really mad, and it can get gruesome. I really worry about this. But, I figure, they understand that I'm just trying to get Daddy to understand them and be more tolerant of them. But, I'm probably just fooling myself. *sigh*

I haven't been doing so well w/not spanking. Bad mommy. I'm not doing it often, but I've swatted a butt here or there in the past couple of months. It seems like I have little energy to deal with both the kids and my marriage, sometimes. I just feel like blowing up.

edited to add: The full moon is now, baby.

[merpk]

... or is it too long a thread for a bump?

There was some discussion in TAO about folks "needing a fixing" when it comes to spanking attitudes ... so, folks, join the club ...


:grouphug

[journeymom]

I hope it's not too long a thread! I just scrolled through all 10 pages and enjoyed all of it. Nice to see there are mommas struggling with the same issue I am.

I was spanked when I was a kid. It wasn't that big a deal, because it was fairly normal then. And it truely was spanking, not beating. But that isn't how I want to treat my kids. I parent so differently from my mom. She reacted and punished. She punished when I inconvenienced her. That's what it comes down to.

I'm trying to discipline my kids with long range goals in mind. Two goals: I want to have a strong, respectful and positive relationship with my kids by the time they're teenagers. The time for building that is now. Second, I want my kids to be happy, independant, compassionate grown-ups. Again, the time to encourage those traits is now.

I'm reading "Positive Discipline" by Jane Nelsen. Someone mentioned "Positive Discipline A to Z", which is like a handy referrance of solutions to common problems. I highly recommend both to everyone! I'm currently taking a 6 week class based upon her books. It's helpful and supportive. You can't imagine what a difference it makes to get together with other parents and brainstorm solutions to our real life problems.

I think children are (obviously) not the same as adults, but are equal to adults in their right to respect and dignity. Though, in practice that's still very hard to consistantly implement.

[Sofiamomma]

I can't post much now, but just wanted to say I took the detour from frogergrl's thread and like what I see. What a relief! I will be back later when I am not so gosh durned tired and can formulate some intelligent thoughts.

[kirasmama]

i've had a very exasperating day to say the least- i've read through this whole thread- coming back to this forum after along time, out of desparation...i spanked my 3-dd this eve. for the first time- i have slapped her on the wrist literally 5 times in the last year and1/2- the fifth time was earlier before i gave her one swat on the bottom. i do love her and my actions were not out of love they were out of frustration,anger and desparation and lack of control. issues i know have more to do with me than my dd- even though her strong willfullness and "testing me" fueled the fire. my question is how does one reason rationally with a "bundle of joy":confused: i've tried the taking away and giving incentives, reasoning with her,trying to talk calm and rationally, giving her choices,putting mommy in a time out (i've never put her in one)...i don't know?? she wants and refuses things all in the same breathe- throws tantrums at the slightest of things--but today was a constant battle of wills... as been lately- we cosleep,ap, i've always felt it is not right to control another human being through force or mental cohersion...but when the nap time window had just passed and i explained to her it was time to get off the computer,"no not yet yet" put another load in the wash...am i being too permissive,not setting proper boundaries??and then she contemplated with fist in air and hit me in the face...
reacting i slapped her on the wrist. i'm going to try saying a mantra right then and there,someone suggested... sorry so long...:123 for now

[merpk]

kirasmama :hug it's never easy.

When they hit me I've lost it, and I yell with this real out-of-The-Exorcist voice ... and it's really hard not to hit back. While I'm still working on the not losing it and yelling part, it's the smacking part that this thread is about, and that's the first part to tackle.

I'd pick him/her up, hold them with their back to me, say something like, "You're not allowed to hit anyone" (throwing in a gratuitous "especially not me," too) and then bring them to someplace else to cool off or have that nap. Not to mention saying "no more computer today," too. That way you've removed them from the computer, made it clear that you're not pleased, and put them in different circumstances/surroundings to look at things differently.

Or something like that.




BTW, welcome back to MDC, and come to the Gentle Discipline forum. Lots more mamas there who are lots more better at this gentle stuff than I. Personally I read there always but don't post much, since am never too sure of myself on the subject. Trying all the time, but never too sure ...

[Linda in OZ]

Can I join too?
I have two sons, ds8 bless him has been my learning curve, he is such a sensitive, beautiful boy. ds5 is a stubborn as they come and once I realised that no amount of spanking was going to work with him I started thinking what was the point of hitting him. and over the last couple of years I have slowly (very slowly) tried to not spank at all. For a while getting him to see my perspective was enough to get to do what needed to be done, whether it was picking up toys, having a bath whatever, now he just has a comeback for whatever I try to get him to do. It gets to the stage where we are talking in circles. I can talk about why this has to be done until I am blue in the face and he is adamant that it aint gonna happen
This afternoon was awful. we were at a friend's house and I gave them a ten minute warning that we were leaving, then a 5 minute warning, then "ok just getting my bag and shoes and we are going" to "ok boys let's go" Ds8 went and got in the car, ds5 said "I'm not going"
me: yes it's time to go,
ds5: I don't want to go
me: c'mon lets go, we have to go home and have dinner, it was about 5.30
ds5 starting to get hostile; I wanna play
me: I know you want to play and it looks like you are all having a good time but daddy will be wondering where we are and we have things to do at home before it gets dark
anyway it escalated to the stage where I took the toy he was playing with off him and he kicked me, then tried to punch me, all with the "I hate you" look then he ran off, so I waited until he was close enough and picked him up and carried him kicking and screaming to the car, where he promptly locked all the doors. Ds8 opened his door and I climbed over him and put ds5 in his seat and buckled him in, he undid his buckle and slid onto the floor. I snapped and said get in your seat NOW, before I whack you. I had kept my cool until that point, He got into his seat and did his buckle up. I didn't hit him, but boy I was getting real close. Sadly this is a regular thing for us.
Sorry this got a bit long, but it feels better to talk about it.
Linda

[julie128]

i'm home for 3 days with the kids--elder dd is sick--while dh is with his family. while i'm relieved to not have to spend xmas w/in-laws, elder dd has thrown several tantrums today (sleeping now, I'm so relieved), & i'm up 2 my eyeballs here. it's good to see this thread. i have spanked dd1 a few times, & afterwards I always think of what i should have done instead, which is better than not thinking of it at all. plus, it helps when i am in a similar situation in the future. because dd1 is sick and 2 1/2, she's been very whiny and tantrumy these past few days. Today, while she was crying for the 100th time I turned to her and said, I love you. she calmed down almost immediately. she is often stressed because of the new baby and how much I have to hold her, ect, which I understand because I am the elder child, too. When dd1 does something (or doesn't do something) that bothers me, I feel this great flood of rage. It's exactly the same way my mother was, and I hate that I feel it, too. My mother would fly into a rage and then spank or smack us. My dad would spank, too, but never with the same kind of anger and hatred that she had. I'm pretty sure my mother's mother was the same way. I am really hoping to be able to over come this and be a normal person. What do you do when you feel a rage? What do you do when your toddler refuses to do what you ask of her ("come here, please" is the big one)?

[Xenogenesis]

"If you don't stop that (whateveritis), Buzz Lightyear (favorite toy) is going to Siberia," :hug

http://www.latvians.com/Exile/TheseNamesAccuse/Preface.htm

[merpk]

Last Minute Laila, if you're trying to make the point that I should know about the history of Siberia, I already do. I had/lost family members who were sent there, too. Stalin's repressions effected millions.

Not coincidentally had family members lost in Latvia, too. Not to the Soviets, though.

Anyway, I didn't mean any disrespect, any more than a poster with "in the gulag" as their sig line means disrespect.

We use the term of toys "going to Siberia" ... as in the toy is going somewhere never to return.

If I offended you by posting the comment, I apologize.

[Xenogenesis]

Not coincidentally had family members lost in Latvia, too. Not to the Soviets, though.

:hug <-------- That Is A Hug, Not A HeadLock . . .

[Milkymommi]

Man I can't believe I found this thread!

I'll be joining you ladies here as I need some serious support.

DH and I were VERY GD with our 1st kiddo dd 7yo now.We fully agreed that spanking is not the way to go, and it worked.Until she turned about 4 or so and that was the end of that for dh.

I don't know what happened.He totally flip flopped on me and started implamenting occasional spankings here and there.Then changed his view completely and was harsh about it with me.It had gotten to the point where I felt so intimidated that I then became sucked into spanking out of total frustration.Almost as if when the kids weren't responding to my GD...out of frustration that dh would think he was right I would spank.

I feel horribly guilty for this and have since stopped quite a while ago.I'm "in the closet" though.I have even made attempts at convincing myself that GD is crazy, but I just can't get away from the fact that I believe it's best.Help!!!!!

How do I do this without DH?I want to be one with him on these issues and I really believe that deep inside he believes that GD is best too.I think that he felt as though he was not in control of the kids and that they would be able to "run the show" and probably fears that he will be looked upon as not caring for them properly...

I've been praying about it and I really believe that God is going to help show DH what way we need to go with this and I'm trying not to do a lot of talking and just let Him show DH through the little things.On a good note, I have seen SOME progress as far as sensitivity toward hurting the kids feeling and such.

Well sorry for the long post but this is really on my heart and I needed a private place to vent.Thank you so much for this thread!

[Xenogenesis]

We use the term of toys "going to Siberia" ... as in the toy is going somewhere never to return.A certain family member had twelve siblings. All of the siblings went somewhere never to return.

[merpk]

Okay, Laila, I apologize for my insensitivity to your family's persection at the hands of the Soviets. My family shares your family's pain. Perhaps some of my family met some of your family at the place from which none of them returned. We'll never know, will we. :(



Since this is a 12-page thread and you have managed to only pick out that one thing to respond to (amazing how you did that ... and now in three posts), perhaps you can now leave this thread, especially now that you've got my apology and obeisance, since you're obviously not interested in anything else the thread has to say or even in the stated purpose of the thread (as per its title).

[julie128]

I smacked DD1 last night. I was lying on the bed with DD2 (5 months), and DD1 (2y10m) crawled over me and onto DD2. I quickly pushed her off, then she kicked DD2, then I slapped her leg. I was so mad. She cried. What do you do when you feel so mad you want to smack your kid? I don't know what to do. Usually, I keep my hand in check. This time, I failed. What can I do next time something like this happens? I feel like I'm becoming my mother. She was like this monster who always yelled at us or hit us. I had nightmares about her. I don't want my girls having nightmares about me!

[reilly's momma]

julie, I think we all lose it sometimes. I know if I yell at ds, or anything like that, I feel so bad immeadiately. I stop and explain to him what is going on, I apologize for not reacting properly and explain to him that I just get frustrated sometimes and don't always react properly. I think it helps a lot when I explain things to my ds, even as young as he is. Plus I feel better when I acknowledge to him that he didn't "deserve" the reaction he got, even if he did do something that was not ok.

It also sounds like your older one is just wanting some more attention, which can be tough. Is there any way you can have some one-on-one time with her each day? Or try to involve her in caring for the younger one? So she realizes that her sis can't do all the things she can yet, it might help her be more understanding of why the younger one needs so much of mom's time & attention.

Hope this helps & good luck.

[Renaissancemom31]

Do you all have a topic/thread set up somewhere off the FYT board? Can someone please direct me to it? I'd love to join in!

[kiwiming]

I agree with 'Renaissancemom31' this thread deserves it's own place!

Hi - I'm new to this discussion, but really appreciative of the things I have read.

I'm trying VERY hard not to hit and shout at my boys, but it is hard to learn new ways. My ds2 looked at me with tears in his eyes a few weeks ago and told me I was scary. I have never felt worse that I had betrayed a sacred trust to help him feel safe. :crying

One helpful thing I heard the other day was "Seek for self discipline before seeking to discipline others". If only I could remember to take that deep breath before reacting!

[Renaissancemom31]

It's very reassuring to see other who want to change here.

After posting yesterday on the Gentle Discipline thread about reformed spankers (saying that I don't think you should ever spank a child under 2...) I came *this* close to spanking Rachel (just turned 1) but of course did not - I found myself tetering on the edge after she disconnected her dad and I not once, not twice, but 3 times :hammer :cuss :hopmad while we were IMing (dad's in Iraq - that's how we communicate) he gets 1/2 hour on the internet - it takes 5 minutes to reboot my computer and 2 to reboot the internet. To make matters worse - this was a very trying morning with the boys and I really needed to talk with him aobut how to discipline them (the boys), as well as another "looming large" family issue. NOT the right time for :binky to get :mischief with the computer cables!!!

[kiwiming]

We just moved our computer into a room where I can put a gate up in the doorway are you able to do that? Or maybe Rachel will have to play in her crib for ½ an hour (that's a bit hard though)?

I feel for you having your husband so far away - I sometimes have trouble just during a work day! :irked:

[Renaissancemom31]

It's funny that you mention that because another friend suggested I put her in a playpen (which I haven't done for months). So I did that this morning and she played quite happily for about 1/2 hour to an hour - then fell asleep. This instance that I refered to with the cable was right after I got her up from her nap.

I hadn't even considered the playpen option - I figured, since she's walking, she shouldn't be cooped up in the playpen. But my friend explained it like this: In the playpen she has limited choices but they're all ok - so it's less frustrating than having ltos of choices and having some of them be 'bad' or unsafe.

[mommamoon]

I am a late bloomer. raised by a mom who firmly believed in spanking this has been so hard for me.My oldest was 10 and really had to live through some mean mommy days! My younger son is 4 1/2 and is really benefitting from my chnge of heart and mind. It bennefits mom too though. SPanking is so bad for the spanker too-all that guilt and bad energy. I would love to have some support in this! Here in the bible belt buckle Gary ezzo is the popular parenting "expert" he makes my skin crawl!
Gretchen

[mommamoon]

My favorite quote which I repeat to myself daily is
"the only behavior I can control is my own"
Gretchen

[merpk]

This thread is being lovingly bumped.

:)

After I referred to it in the "where are the NFL/AP" thread in TAO, have received communications from several folks who wanted a link to it, who were interested in the idea of support and a safe place to discuss our struggles with our own self-control and GD learning ... which is what this thread was intended to be.

Glad to have it back. Taking one day at a time ...

:)

[ozzyemm]

Subscribing. My DS is only 2 months old, and I would never dream of spanking or otherwise discipline an infant, but I come from a very heavy handed family. I was also involved in disciplining my brother (13 years younger than me).

I want to break the cycle of abuse in my family.

On a good note, we visited my mom and brother and their new puppy. They were spanking him to tell him not to climb on us. I felt that not only was it abusive to the poor puppy, but it was a silly way to discipline. This is a very intelligent dog, and you are just teaching it to fear approaching ppl in a loving manner. I am glad I can see through spanking as a form of discipline nonsense! :)

[Mearaina]

This is the perfect place for me!! I have 2 dd's who will be 4 and 2 in June, and a new arrival due in June. I don't want to spank, but I want my children to behave. I was spanked as a child, and have no clue what else to do, but I am learning.

Question:
What do you do in the instance where there is not a logical natural consequence? For instance, dd1 will hit dd2 and I will say, "stop hitting your sister. It hurts her" and she will say "no". Repeat many times. I usually put her in a time-out in these instances of complete not listening, but I feel that there is a better way and I just havn't discovered it yet.

~Lisa

[DebraBaker]

Lets hear it for breaking the cycle.

The only time I will hit my kids is when they should block :lol

[caspian's mama]

howdy.

ds will be 3 in june. i've only spanked him for the past 2 weeks, but it started feeling "natural" pretty quickly. already i was resorting to it before even trying other approaches.

i've got some pretty big, unresolved rage issues (mostly regarding my family) so i especially need to stay away from this, for the health of our whole family.

thanks for "listening". i wish all of you bucketfuls of PATIENCE and empathy.