Should this be legal? [Archive] - MotheringDotCommunity Forums

DaryLLL

10-07-2002, 12:10 PM

No, hospitals should not give out free artificial baby milk. How can they say they are pro-bfing, and then give out that poison?

"Of even greater concern is the mother who encounters a breastfeeding
problem. In some situations, she may use the formula she received upon
discharge from the hospital instead of seeking assistance from a
knowledgeable health care provider or La Leche League leader. The practice
of formula discharge pack distribution impresses upon the mother that the
hospital endorses that particular brand when in fact it is usually the
lowest bidder who obtains the privilege to supply the hospital with that
brand.
Do health care professionals wish to continue being unpaid sales
representatives for the formula companies? Some may argue that they aren't
unpaid when they accept free food, training and gifts from a formula
company, a practice that the authors, along with many other lactation
professionals, discourage. These practices that occur in clinics and
hospitals across the US are in direct violation of the WHO/UNICEF
International Code of Marketing Breastmilk Substitutes. According to
WHO/UNICEF, between one and two million infants worldwide die each year due
to artificial feeding. It was also WHO that first recommended that infants
be breastfed for at least two years.

While most of the United Nations countries signed onto the Code in the early
1980s, the US withheld it's support of the Code until the Clinton
administration voiced it's approval in 1994. The Code bans all promotion
of bottle-feeding and sets out requirements for labeling and information on
infant feeding products. Any activity which undermines breastfeeding also
violates the Code. The Code's main points are for no promotional efforts to
consumers, health care professionals or hospitals yet these violations
continue in hospitals and clinics across the country."

--C. Curtis IBCLC, M. Griese IBCLC from Breastfeeding Online

umbrella

10-08-2002, 02:15 AM

I think a woman's decision to breastfeed goes way beyond free samples. If you really want to breastfeed you will give it all you've got, and probably know the facts. If you didn't start out with that commitment in mind, I think you'd be likely to go out and but formula free samples or no.

I think this is kind of a cold attitude. We're not just talking about some woman succeeding or failing at doing something she may or may not want to do. We are talking about a child's healthy.

Most mothers do NOT "really want to and give it all they've got."

Those few mothers who do, will not be easily swayed. But the rest of the mothers need every little bit of encouragement and support that can be mustered.

If you take a woman who figures she might as well give breastfeeding a shot, and you surround her with support and information and help, and encouragement, you will likely end up with a dedicated breastfeeding mother.

If you take a woman who figures she might as well give breastfeeding a shot, and you surround her with formula ads, and inaccurate information, and all of the professionals and family members around her telling her to just give the baby a bottle of formula, and you will likely end up with a bottlefeeding mother.

So, you may say, well, it's her own fault for not learning more in the first place. Maybe so. But who suffers? The baby.

Let's do what we can to help babies get what they deserve.

gaffa

10-08-2002, 08:40 AM

If you take a woman who figures she might as well give breastfeeding a shot, and you surround her with support and information and help, and encouragement, you will likely end up with a dedicated breastfeeding mother.

I agree, that's why I said prenatal/postnatal education needs to be ramped up. I think its a shame that more people don't breastfeed and we need to worry more about breastfeeding promotion through the medical staff at hospitals and ob/gyn's etc.
We also need to build support via word of mouth, and setting a more widespread example. this will take time. LLL presence should be increased, lactation consultants made more available for at home visits.

I still think it takes a commitment on the mother's part to see it through. I have two cousins with babies who just didn't have any commitment to it, and within the first couple of days gave up. it had nothing to do with formula samples etc. I could tell before they even had the babies that they weren't going to see it through, they were just so nonchalant about it. I tried heavy BF advocacy, they just weren't going for it.

It's not great that they give out the samples, but I don't think it is something that needs legislation. which was the original question. Hospitals should consider banning it as their policy, but LEGALLY I think it's best left alone. I think it goes into legislating ethics and morality which is opening a can of worms

Carla

amandajf

10-10-2002, 08:02 AM

I was always told those samples *ARE* illegal. WHO has fined playtex, gerber, nestle, mead johnson etc for giving out samples. It is illegal because it is contraindicative to worldwide health. Of course in the US No one enforces it, but they get heavy fines.

Marlena

10-10-2002, 08:09 AM

I think Carla's right. Hosptials should, on their own initiative, refuse to hand out these samples (although I seriously doubt many ever would). This is not an appropriate venue for legislation. If the legislature were to get involved on public health grounds, it would be much better off acting to ensure women had adequate job, seniority and benefits protection as well as wages during an extended absence from work (at least 6 months of protected time, I would argue) following childbirth.

DaryLLL

10-10-2002, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Marlena
[B]I think Carla's right. Hosptials should, on their own initiative, refuse to hand out these samples (although I seriously doubt many ever would).

Actually, many hospital are doing just this. Just not many in this "great" country of ours, where dollars matter more than lives.

Have you heard of the Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative? One of the requirements for being designated baby friendly is to *not* give out free ABM. Instead, you must train all maternity staff in *correct* lactation management, and send the bfing moms home with a list of bfing support persons/groups (intead of ABM). An inner city Boston hospital manged to do this. Hospitals in third world countries manage to meet these requirements. Most American hosps don't bother.

Beck

10-10-2002, 10:34 AM

I hate to answer a question with a question, but...

What do you think of cigarette companies giving away free samples to heart & lung patients? I mean, not all can quit smoking. And they would be giving little "quit smoking" pamphlets along with the samples. The samples would clearly state "no smoking" is best. But, not everyone can't not smoke. They don't want to encourage people to smoke, just get those who are going to use cigarettes to use their brand.

sleepies

10-10-2002, 11:39 AM

but, you are not and should not be forced to take it.

i think it is actually a good thing to send home with all mothers. the reason i like it is for a back up. in case the mother was to die or something trajic was to happen to her. or if she was late getting home from somewhere. i would think an emergency can would be a good idea.

that is my two cents.

gaffa

10-10-2002, 12:09 PM

What do you think of cigarette companies giving away free samples to heart & lung patients? I mean, not all can quit smoking. And they would be giving little "quit smoking" pamphlets along with the samples. The samples would clearly state "no smoking" is best. But, not everyone can't not smoke. They don't want to encourage people to smoke, just get those who are going to use cigarettes to use their brand.

I don't think this comparison works as tobacco is a HIGHLY ADDICTIVE, highly carcinogenic product. ABM might not be great for a baby, but hardly shares these characteristics. I'm a ABM baby and I'm certainly not DYING from it. I may have hada better health record or be a pinch smarter, have a closer relationship with parents etc...

I think it isn't helpful to the cause when making such extreme comparisons

Respectfully disagreeing

Carla

amandajf

10-10-2002, 08:57 PM

[but, you are not and should not be forced to take it.

How many women refuse free stuff? not me..and im an avid nurser.. i just sold my samples on ebay :)

i think it is actually a good thing to send home with all mothers. the reason i like it is for a back up. in case the mother was to die or something trajic was to happen to her. or if she was late getting home from somewhere. i would think an emergency can would be a good idea.

that is my two cents. [/QUOTE]

It is true.. an emergency can would be nice... but why not buy a pump? wic gives em for free... even manual stimulation isn't that hard... possibly if they did a free can... how about giving out free eye droppers instead of nipples? My kids had to have ABM at some point, but you know what? they suck down from an eyedropper a helluva lot faster than some nipple AND it won't cause nipple confusion!

Firemom

10-12-2002, 05:23 PM

I don't think it should be illegal, but I find it wrong for them to give it for free. Hosptials should promote breastfeeding. Its hard for something free to be advertised.

Let the hospitals advertise breastfeeding and the formulas can do it (like they already do) outside of the hospital.

tenne

10-15-2002, 01:27 PM

I think it is okay to give gifts but not formula. I received a diaper bag with a bottle cooler, ice packs, and bm storage containers. I use it to carry my pump and dd's bottles the day my mom watches her. The nurse at the hospital asked if I wanted it and was quick to add "there's no formula in it". It kind of made me feel good to take something from the formula company when they will never be getting anything from me!
I think the issue is the overall attitude toward bf'ing at the hospital. I gave birth at a hospital based birthing center that is very pro-bf'ing. I called the nurses in many times in the middle of the night to check latch (I wanted to get sidelying right before I went home) and they were always happy to come in and check. The LC stopped by for 20 minutes both days to chat and when she heard through the grapevine that I was running a fever the day after I left she called to tell me to get acidophilus if I was on antibiotics. So with all the encouragement and support even if I had formula I wouldn't have felt the need to use it (although I was going to bf - there was never a doubt for me) whereas if a women wasn't given formula but was in a setting that didn't fully support and encourage bf'ing she might be more likely to go buy some.

queen620

10-15-2002, 02:35 PM

Although I don't particularly like the idea of giving out samples, I am not totally oppoesed. There are a lot of women who went into the hospital knowing that they were not going to breastfeed. I think these women should get the samples, b/c it can be money saving(not quite like breastfeeding!). I also lets these women know they can register and get more free formula, coupons, and other items. I formula feed my first son, for lack of good info and help from crappy LC, but I used all the coupons I got, I used all the free stuff I got, and I even registered for mailing lists. With ds2 I went home with 1 pack of 8 4oz nursette bottles, but was given a syringe to finger feed if I was too sore. This is all my son got, other than the occassional botthle of formula when I ws gone and I forgot to thaw Bm. I think we went through that pack only after a few months.

I still clip coupons for free formula. I add one scoop to my son's applesauce...b/c he is very slow to gain weight. I got six free cans, and I gave away two, and am on my next to last can. Adding formula to applesauce and yogurt was the middle ground to keep WIC and ped from bugging me about giving pediasure. I have several coupons that I need to call and get the free cans for a friend who gave up on nursing:crying :crying But I know they are tight on money so I will get the cans to help out, since she decided not to continue nursing.

So to sum up I think no formula for breastfeeding moms, but yes to formula feeding moms.

jjdoula

10-28-2002, 11:05 AM

As a doula I am careful to prepare my clients for successful breastfeeding,,I make sure they are educated to begin with, use positive language (I hate more than anything hearing a woman say she is going to TRY to breastfeed! I always get her to change that and say she most definately is going to breastfeed..) and I also prepare them for the inevitable feeling within the first couple of weeks that somehow she is not providing enough milk,,EVERYONE wonders,,and a woman knowing that will be more prepared to work through it. Our hospital offers breastfeeding clinics 3 times a week, where they can go and get any support or help they need, as well as weigh the baby before and after nursing,,so they can be supporten in the knowledge that they are providing just what the baby needs, though they can't see it, they can't measure it, and the baby seems to always want to be nursing!

But in preparation for their nursing success, I always really encourage them to leave the formula at the hospital. I am happy to take advantage of all the goodies, and encourage them to do the same! (I have a diaper bag, cooler packs and a thermal pouch, a "Nursing Mothers Compaion, the first 2 months" all courtesy of the formula companies.) They also wanted to send home some packets of formula,, as if to say "Best of luck with nursing,but when you fail,,here is something to fix it!" I just leave the nipples, formula and coupons there..I think most of my clients do as well.

I do think it is gross that the evil companies prey on that time when new mothers are so vulnerable. Everyone has a moment in the beginning when it seems like it would be so much easier to offer a bottle, when you are so sleep deprived and grandma tells you a bottle will help youget sleep, or it seems like the baby is not getting enough..so on. To make sure that there is a sample of formula available at that time is just wrong.

gurumama

11-08-2002, 08:26 AM

When I checked out of the hospital in April with my second, the nurse went through the samples/freebies with me and, before I could decline the formula samples, said, "But you're breastfeeding, so you probably don't want these. Do you want me to donate them to a food bank for you?"

I said yes. Too bad they can't staff a LC at the food bank, though!

Of course, I arrived home to find THREE CANS of formula from Enfamil on my doorstep...How'd they get my name?

Mel

Elphaba

11-08-2002, 09:05 AM

gurumama, if you ever bought anything from babiesrus or motherhood maternity, THAT'S where the formula swine get your name! i make up phone numbers and addresses now, but didn't know enough to do that when i was pg.

Chloe

11-12-2002, 08:18 PM

I didn't vote, but here's my reply:

I too am receiving cans of formula in the mail...grrrrrr. I am either going to give it to someone or donate it to a battered women's shelter.

I want to write to the formula companies and suggest they also give out free breastfeeding supplies...maybe some breastpads, or hand pumps. If they can afford to send out 2 cans of formula to expecting moms, they can hand out free hand pumps, too. Of course, there is no money in breastfeeding for formula companies.

But it really is annoying to get this stuff when you are not formula feeding.

Hospitals shouldn't endorse one over the other. They should endorse them equally... meaning- provide support. Expose mothers to breastfeeding... it is annoying that formula companies are always throwing the formula in our face! :angry

Selling it on ebay is a good idea!!!! :) :thumb

I do like the free bag and ice packs for carrying bottles in though. I used the free bag for carrying my breastpump to work, and I used the ice packs to keep my expressed milk cold. :) So, it was useful. I just didn't use the formula. :) I gave all my formula cans to my friend who adopted a baby. :)

I can also use the bag as an extra diaper bag, or carrying bag for toys, snacks, crayons and stuff to do if we are at a restaurant or something.

Just because the formula companies give out the bags and free stuff, you don't HAVE to use it. Or you can use it for other stuff. :) Or you can put it in your closet and forget about it, or give it to goodwill!

jannan

11-16-2002, 07:59 PM

i voted yes, you should get free formula when you leave the hospital. i don't know how umbrella can say "most women dont want to give it all they've got" I'm sorry umbrella i've got to disagree with you. that assumes tha tevery mother who bottle fed her baby is lazy and does not seemed concerned with the health of her baby. please don't make statements like that . it offened this bottle feeding mother. and free formula is not going to be your decision if you breastfeed or not. i'm not coming to this thread anymore

abimommy

11-17-2002, 02:11 PM

Well being given formula makes it that much more likely that a mother will use the formula thus compromising her supply.

While I was given free formula when I left the hospital and in the mail I was lucky to have a sister who is a LLL leader and helped me through all the difficult early breastfeeding problems.

Without the right support and information it would have been very easy to make my dh just give her a bottle so I could get a break.

Many countries do not allow formula companies to give free formula, and it is not surprising the US is low on the breastfeedng statistics as a result.

Jish

11-17-2002, 02:53 PM

I agree with abimommy. I had all the formula samples in my house with my first. I can't tell you how many times in that first month I agonized over whether or not to give up breastfeeding. When things weren't going well I would literally spend an hour crying, agonizing over doing what I knew was best for my baby, or quitting breastfeeding because I felt it was too hard. I was even attending a weekly breastfeeding support group.

After having a particularly bad day in which I gave my babe a few ounces of the "gift" formula I ended up crying and in the end I got out my "What to Expect the First Year" and took one of the good pieces of advice from it. It recommended breastfeeding at least six to eight weeks and then deciding from there. That is what I decided to do. I then took all my formula samples (and we are talking cases that I received from various companies) and gave them to the food bank. Not having them in the house as a temptation made all the difference in the world. I HAD to make breastfeeding work. I went on to nurse both of my two children until they were two.

The truth is that those formula samples DO interfere with breastfeeding. If you think that the formula companies give these samples to new moms out of the goodness of their hearts, you are being misled. The formula industry is big business for the Pharmacutical companies.

Missgrl

11-17-2002, 03:25 PM

My free sample did compromise my bfing relationship with ds1!:crying
I was so tired and weary from bfing and getting no support...I
caved and gave him formula.....formula that I had in my pantry
from a free gift in the mail.
So the point is....is that for mom's that know they want to ff,
formula gifts are great! But for mom's that are determined to
try to bf and find it more difficult than expected (first time moms
mostly) it is too easy to stop when trouble arises when formula
is sitting in the pantry! KWIM

Let's just say when ds2 came around NO foruma was alloweed
near my house!

Angiemama

11-17-2002, 05:38 PM

I say no way! AS a few have already stateed, it DOES interfer with breastfeeding, and it also shows that the hospital is not supportive of breastfeeding. Free samples of fromula, instead of free samples of breastfeding supplies gives a wrong message to new moms. Some moms go into a hosptial planning on bottlefeeding, or both, or undecided, and can be coaxed into giving breastfeeding a try by a supportive nurse/dr/midwife. Often, the mother finds that connection and continues to bf. I know at hosptial around here, they incourage bfing right away and even schedule an apt with the LC before you leave the hosptial.. if there are problmes stil, they make sure you visit with her before the end of the week.

I never received any formula smaples (perhaps b/c i was haivng a HB and never registerd anywhere) but I was transfered to the hosptial. When I was getting ready to leave, the nurse brought in the gift bag.. she was uot raged b/c it wa full of formula and propaganda. She started throwing it all out saing that they were not suposed to provide that anymore.. the only thig left in the bag when she gave it to me was a cd of classical music, breast pads and cool packs "incase you ever pump," she said.

tabitha

12-02-2002, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by jjdoula
(I hate more than anything hearing a woman say she is going to TRY to breastfeed! I always get her to change that and say she most definately is going to breastfeed..)

good for you, jjdoula!! how sad it is to hear mom's say they're going to TRY to breastfeed, homebirth, labor w/o drugs. it diminishes their confidence w/o them even knowing it!!

i voted no, no formula, as i have a very strong opinion about formula feeding. while i recognize that alternative feeding is neccesary at times, i don't believe mothers should have the choice to formula feed- unless they have no means by which to breastfeed, their baby is severely handicapped, or their baby is adopted and their milk supply is not adequate. in these cases i would certainly use "borrowed" breastmilk for my ds, even if it meant having someone else (wetnurse or friend) nurse my son.

extreme situations excepted, i believe that if you made the choice to have a baby that child has the right to breastmilk!

hospitals and their "gifts" undermine a lot of moms who might bf. while i don't think that they should be able to give gifts of formula, that alone is not what causes bf failure, imo. i think one of the biggest problems is the persisting rumor that some women just can't nurse, or some babies don't want to- which are both very very very rare occurances. i swear, people who don't know a lick about BF and probably have never even seen a woman nurse her child "know" of someone who "couldn't" nurse! women hear all these tales about so-and-so who "couldn't" nurse, (i must have heard about 100 people who "couldn't") and they believe that there is a significant part of the population who can't. when things start off poorly for them- due to a bad latch, or a nagging MIL, or a drugged baby, the seed is already planted- "maybe i just "can't" nurse"

i got a "breastfeeding success kit" in the hospital. in it were bottles of formula with a pop-on nipple! it is obvious to me that these were designed to make formula feeding look easier than BF, which it is not.

my nipples were cracked before my baby was 24 hours old. while i would never have given up bfing (my mom had told me i wouldn't be able to, and i was too stubborn to let her be right! :)) i looked at those formula bottles with their pop on nipple and became really aware of how easy it would seem to give up. i was in incredible pain (afterpains plus cracked & bleeding nipples), beyond sleep-deprived, and in a very vulnerable emotional state.

even if most women birthed at home, this would still be a problem, until enough people had been nursed that there were few who had been bottlefed or failed to nurse to perpetuate formula feeding as the norm. one way to help achieve this would be to require that all women leave the hospital nursing. (not that it would magically get everyone to nurse for at least a year.) and that can't happen until babies' right to the healthiest start (bfing) is recognized, and replaces the mythical right a mother has to her breasts after childbirth.

btw, i gave my formula to my church food drive. i hope that it didn't find it's way into another bfing home to taunt yet another bfing couple!

thanks for breastfeeding, i say to nursing moms! i know how hard it can be.
tabitha & tristan (attatched at the nipple!)
i am not saying that formula moms are lazy, which someone else was accused of earlier in this thread, i am saying that formula is not an option for me and my child, he will never have a sip of it, and i think it is this stance that helped us become a succesful nursing pair in spite of the resistance at the hospital and from everyone else, it seems, that i run into on the street!! i do feel as if other mom's choice not to BF effects me and ds, in the form of higher insurance costs, perpetuated myths about how hard it is to bf, not to mention the environmental damage that results from formula & bottle production & waste.

Leslie in MD

12-04-2002, 06:23 PM

Well, I think there is a place for everything. When I got out of the hospital I gave my "supplies" to a homeless shelter and I know they appreciated it. For whatever reason, not everyone has success nursing and they need formula for a backup. I have never used it even once, but I'm sure that it has helped insure that some babies got fed.
Leslie in MD

MelMel

12-05-2002, 10:50 AM

I also, am so tired of hearing that so and so 'couldnt' breast feed...it really lessens the acomplishment i have made...every woman in my family looks at me and says, 'oh, i couldnt, i am too sensitive' or 'i couldnt, baby was too agressive' 'oh i couldnt, my milk came in late..wasnt enough..etc'

it pisses me off, because i have been struggling, and pushing through the PAIN and dealing with horrible engorgements, constant PAIN, soreness and leaking, and PAIN worse than the actual birth (did I say PAIN yet)...all because i knew there was no other choice..they say 'oh you are lucky' WHAT!?! no, I put my childs needs ahead of my own...

i also agree that they should make women breastfeed after birth by not providing formula in the hospital...

i have no sympathy for those who SAY 'cant' and wont apologize for that opinion...thats why i am in the 'breastfeeding: support and advocacy' forum...i dont go to the bottle forum and post there, cuz i have nothing to do with that....

its sad that only about 10% or less of children born today would of actually survived before formula was invented..all these women that 'cant' feed their babies...I would at least pump it and give it too the kid that way...jeez...if i was gunna be a sissy about the PAIN (theres that word again)

p.s. this is probably gunna make ALL of you mad (compared to the SOME that I have already upset ;)) but I take those coupons and formula cans and sell them. I dont want to give them away to people that should of been boobfeeding to begn with...I will take their money if they are stupid enough to part with it for something their body makes for free and and better...

the stupid formula company keeps sending the crap and coupons to me too..i know they track them, they probably think i am using them 'they got me' so they keep sending more...idiots...i love making money off them for once, instead of them ripping off us...

now i am probably gunna be banned...;) :D

call the forum something else if you arent supposed to advocate breastfeeding...i'm all about it, even though it sucks most of the time still (no pun intended):D :D

abimommy

12-06-2002, 01:32 AM

LOL!! That is too funny!! I never really considered selling the formula they sent..heh..

sounds like a good scam idea though

abimommy

12-06-2002, 01:35 AM

oops..I didn't mean you were scamming I just meant if someone wanted to scam it would be..heh

MelMel

12-06-2002, 10:33 AM

no, you were right the first time, i'm scamming them, and they deserve it...:sinister

journeymom

12-06-2002, 11:50 AM

I voted "yes", it should be legal for these companies to give free stuff to patients. That's part of the great free society we live in. I do not want the government making one more law about what I can or cannot do. I think pot should be legalized, I think prohibition of alcohol was wrong, and I fear the day cigarettes are made illegal. I dispise cigarettes, though, and (up until a party a month ago :rolleyes: ) I have never smoked pot in my 34 years. Sodomy laws, too. I'm straight, but I believe the anti gay laws are wrong and should be taken off the books. The government doesn't belong in our bedrooms.

However, I think hospitals should have the good sense to refuse the formula gifts. And mothers are free to refuse them, also. This is another case of where education is the key.

Leslie in MD

12-11-2002, 01:45 PM

Mel Mel, well said! This board is all about opinions and yours is as valuable as the next. We know you weren't trying to offend, just posting your thoughts. You go girl!
Leslie in MD, moderator

Peach

12-13-2002, 09:21 AM

Hospital administrators and physicians should be ashamed of themselves for allowing formula companies to market so shamelessly to their clients. I am similarly disgusted when I see "breastfeeding information" pamphlets by formula companies at the pediatrician's office. They are always there, and the local LLL chapter's information is not.

Mel Mel, breastfeeding isn't supposed to hurt. I'm sure you've heard all this, but if it hurts beyond some minor soreness during the first couple weeks, something's wrong. It's usually the baby's position at the breast, latch, or suck causing abrasions or some other factor leading to prolonged engorgement. Have you tried your local LLL?

MelMel

12-15-2002, 10:56 AM

oh, its not bad anymore, the nipple soreness..gone.

its the damn engorgement, CONSTANTLY leaking...I feed her on demand, usually every 2 hours, sometimes more. less at night (every 4-6 hours) but I still cant wear my regular cloths, cuz I have to be so padded with nursing pads and cloth scraps...yuck...I have to wear a nursing undershirt/camisol, and something baggy like a sweater over that...:sinister

and yes, I am going to a LLL meeting, I found a local one, and my first is this week...yeah!

but this isnt about me, I'm doing great, and more importantly, my kiddo is doin great, cuz I am giving her the best she could have, I just wish all babes had that.

peatree

12-23-2002, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by MelMel
[B]I also, am so tired of hearing that so and so 'couldnt' breast feed...it really lessens the acomplishment i have made...every woman in my family looks at me and says, 'oh, i couldnt, i am too sensitive' or 'i couldnt, baby was too agressive' 'oh i couldnt, my milk came in late..wasnt enough..etc'

it pisses me off, because i have been struggling, and pushing through the PAIN and dealing with horrible engorgements, constant PAIN, soreness and leaking, and PAIN worse than the actual birth (did I say PAIN yet)...all because i knew there was no other choice..they say 'oh you are lucky' WHAT!?! no, I put my childs needs ahead of my own...

That's interesting...putting your childs needs before your own. I don't think that occurs to most of us that "can't".

With DS I Bf'd until a piece of my nipple came off. We lasted three weeks before I gave up. It was thrush that went undiagnosed long enough to make BFing impossible, I didn't know what it was. I did finally go to the Dr. (unisured) and when the nystatin and gentian violet didn't work all I had left was a alot of unpaid Dr's bills, a bunch of nice, though clueless, LLL members and an absent/abusive boyfriend. It's something I still feel sad and disapointed about .

Fast forward a couple of years and I had a panic attack when DD and I got thrush when she was six weeks old. It's taken over a year to get rid of it. I've wasted an obscene amount of money on clueless LC's, I've taken such high doses of Diflucan that the integrity of my liver was compromised and now I can't take things like that any more. I starved for five months on an anti candida diet (I lost 75+ lbs in less than five months.) Some days I had so little energy I could do little more than lay on the couch. My hair even began to fall out. My DH and I spend $200+ a month on the supplements and health food that keep the yeast under control. Not to mention the electricity bill from doing 2 or 3 loads of hot bleach laundry every day, all of the ruined clothes...Nothing can come into contact with my nipples or BM without a hot washing afterwards. It's been a long, painful year. Did I mention pain? Starvation? Over a year later I still get a nasty yeasty flareup just before my period (hormones and all) and it hurts a whole helluva lot. I also expereinced engorgement, leaking ect on top of all of this. And now my teeth are breaking. Maybe I could afford to go to the dentist if we weren't spending $200 a month on supplements and health food (my diet is still really restrictive and the majority of things I can eat come from a pricey Health Food Store) I guess it will have to wait until DD weans herself. She's only 17 months now though so who knows how long that will be...

I don't know anyone that has faced the sort of problems I have when BFing, though I do know know many people who for what ever reason couldn't BF. I think the best part of my whole ordeal is that it's shown me that "can't" is subjective, and changes for each of us depending on our circumstances. The privlege of emotional support (in the form of a very pro BFing DH), money and access to information is what made the difference for me the second time around.

I could be wrong, but I think the low BFing rates have less to do with formula samples and more to do with family unfriendly work environments/policies, socioeconomic issues, and the way our entire society views/treats womens bodies, in particular, women's breasts. As for the legality of passing out formula samples in hospitals...Who knows? I guess if we criminalized every unethical thing corporate america did businesses would be going under left and right.

Eosine

12-27-2002, 09:19 PM

donate it to a battered women's shelter. :thumb

Hey, they're giving it away, donate it to a worthy cause!!

They only send it because a lot of people, especially first time moms, still formula feed and they make a lot of money if they can get the mom to use theirs.

I find it's sad not a lot of moms don't know much about breast feeding. My in-laws practically discourage it because they have cats and I'm allergic and won't take any antihistamines so I can bring baby to their homes.

I guess the hospitals shouldn't allow it and try to focus more support to bfeeding instead. On my first I didn't know how long a baby should be on each side. I thought they had to be on like 15 min to 1/2 hour to get all they need, because bottle feeding can take that long! Yeesh, so wrong!!

DaryLLL

01-04-2003, 07:01 PM

Since we have a bunch of cool lactavists on this thread, I want to say:

Don't call it formula!!!

That makes it sound too scientific and nutritious. Smart guys in white lab coats playing God(dess).

Call it:

Artificial baby milk. ABM. It is a mish mash of milk made for another species altogether, with water and table sugar, and lab created chemical vitamins and minerals added, in various amts, acc to fashion and the "latest research." Loaded with too much potassium and sodium and calcium, all of which the baby's immature gut and liver and kidneys has to process and turn into waste, and pass thru as a hard smelly unnatural stool. ABM fed babies skin is flabbier than a human milk fed one's, and they dont' small as good. Their oral development is compromised. They will be about 8 points lower in IQ than if they were fed naturally.

ABM can cause botulism to grow in your baby's gut after just one feed. this can lead to SIDS. Artificially fed babies are more likely to get diabetes, leukemia as children and breast or reproductive cancers as an adult.

Babies can be allergic to cow's milk foods, as well as the soy milk for babies they may then be subjected to. Artificially fed abies are on theri own as far as immunities. they have very littleimmune response on their own. Human milk provides babies with the immunities of a full grown adult, until theirs is fully functional, at around 6 yrs of age!

Getting off soapbox,

Eosine

01-04-2003, 07:08 PM

:D :thumb

Now I know what ABM stands for :)

sadie_sabot

01-09-2003, 01:18 AM

I voted "other" because I am ambivalent about wether it does any good to make things illegal. Too much government intervention isn't usually the answer.

that said, i think it is wrong, wrong wrong, and shame on hospitals for participating!

Envision

01-10-2003, 03:00 PM

I didn't have time to read every single post, so I appologize if this is repeating someone...

I think it is wrong. In my opinion, a hospital or any care center of any kind is there to support your decisions about health. They are not there to endorse products...

When products start being endorsed, that can and I'm sure does encourage medical staff to suggest them without really trying to meet the needs of the mother and work to the long term goal of bfing...

Does this only happen in the States or does it happen in Canada too?? We had one baby in hospital and never got anything...(we are in canada)

Envision :heartbeat

tabitha

01-14-2003, 10:14 AM

hooray! i am never calling Artificial Baby Milk "formula" again!

I took a similar stance on plastic diapers (not "disposables")

My friend Lauren and I are practicing our aim so we can squirt people in the eye when they give us trouble for whipping out the boob.

I feel that more breastfeeding mothers should be lactivists! I have a friend who is nursing her almost 2 year old in private because of the looks she gets in public. when i have a toddler to nurse, i'm going to do it in public! I feel it is my duty to raise awareness and tolerance of EBF. If everyone who nursed their toddlers did it in public in my town, it wouldn't be so "weird". (for some reason, (yay) there are a lot of EBFers in Alameda. ) Ha Ha i can imagine it... I'll say "No, Tristan, no nurses until we're at the restaurant..."

Just kidding, but I do wish there were more lactivists. :love tabitha

Eosine

01-14-2003, 02:43 PM

My friend Lauren and I are practicing our aim so we can squirt people in the eye when they give us trouble for whipping out the boob. LOL!!!:D :thumb

ryansmom02

01-16-2003, 03:20 PM

i got a diaper bag full of formula when i had my son and it was for breastfeeding moms go figure:rolleyes: but i promptly gave the formula backa nd the nurse told me to keep i would need it when i stopped breastfeeding... i said well when he is 2 he will just have cows milk.... she looked confused but took it anyway.....

Piglet68

02-17-2003, 05:50 PM

I voted "everything but formula" because I don't believe in further legislation but the WHO already forbids free formula.

ITA with Ms Mom: formula companies do not give out millions of cans for free out of the goodness of their hearts!!! They know how effective this practice is at compromising BFing relationships. They are like drug dealers giving out their first hits for free b/c they know how many women get hooked on it.

I gave birth at a BF Friendly Hospital and got lots of gifts but no formula. However, there were cans of it on my doorstep! I threw them away in a fit of anger one night (long story).

Why don't FF mothers just write to the company instead and get their free samples, rather than giving it out to everyone? Oh yeah, b/c it's better for them that way, they get more women to give in.

I'm not going to judge any individual woman, but as a group I am sorry but too many FF women DO go into it with a pathetic attitude. You will never convince me that the pathetic BFing rates in this country are due to millions of women who "tried really hard and failed". I know a minority of women have true issues, but we all know someone who thought it was just too much trouble to BF and that attitude makes me mad! :angry

When FF is the exception rather than the rule, I'm sure my attitude will mellow!!

Bladestar5

02-17-2003, 05:51 PM

I think it should be a last resort to use formula. That is just my opinion. I also think it is ok for them to give it to people who WANT it...not to people who don't want it. I had to end up supplementing with my son, unfortunately, and was relieved to have the formula on hand at 4am. But I did not just go into bottle feeding lightly, and was not happy to have to.

sohj

05-31-2003, 06:03 PM

many, many years ago, I spent about a year working at an "Advertising Specialty" company. We were the middlemen for NBC getting little teddy bears with T-shirts with the proud as a peacock logo on them and Vogue Magazine getting NoteCubes with their logo, etc, etc.

One day, one of our clients called with a difficult request. They were expanding into Germany (way before reunification) and needed some "premium promotion material"...BUT Germany's laws stated that ANY 'gifts' from a commercial enterprise have a value of no more than what was then 32 cents each. The client was annoyed at this as these people spend LOTS of money on all this free s**t and count on getting lots of "free" and, frankly, insidious advertising by the recipients using said gift (T-shirts/pens/mugs/notepads/and more expensive things...you'd be surprised at some of the stuff we put together for clients). I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that that was a pretty sensible law. The premise behind it (as I found out with a little digging at the public library) was that a commercial gift was considered a bribe...and this went for samples, too.

It is possible that that law is law no longer; but, I found it interesting and thought that it could apply here, too.

I took the gift bag at the hospital and then threw it away. Was too tired from the experience and really just wanted OUT and didn't want to stay to argue.

earthpapi

05-31-2003, 07:56 PM

with our first baby we went to a hospital for dw first checkups. with in those couple of months and even when we left the hosptial and found our midwife we were getting free samples in the mail and checks for formula. it was really ticking me off knowing that there are some people that would take these free samples and use them and the checks. we always gave ours away and felt like we were helping these companies, but we new it helped our friend out. i wish hospitals annd companies would give out free breast pumps. that would be great for those mothers that have problems bf and want to go to work right away. but we all know that they are way to much $$$ to just give away. maybe the government should think about doing that since they do give away free formula with wic an other agencies. well my $0.02 adios.

dentente

06-01-2003, 03:05 AM

I just could not believe the amount of free formula I was sent in the first year of my kid's life. It was ridiculous. At the hospital we had MAJOR probs BFing and ended up in Pump Land. They brought by the free "Breastfeeding" Similac gift bag. It's a "breastfeeding" bag because it has some lanolin ointment, some breast pads, some small empty BM bottles with a insulated bag, the handy-dandy Ross Laboratories "breastfeeding guide" along with loads of premixed formula and little screw on nipples for the premixed bottles. How. Very. Helpful. "Good luck breastfeeding, now here's some formula for when you give up in tears at 3:00 am." I wanted to give it back to them but my mom grabbed it and insisted we take it home with us (you know where this was going, right?)

Oh we had an interesting little fight about it. I was failing utterly to get my kid to latch on and became a prisoner of Da Pump. We overcame it by the time my dd was 2 and half months old with one incredible LC from LLL (thank you Beverly, thank you, we love you).

My mom pushed that formula on us until she left to go back home. I shut her up finally by making her taste it. It tastes like $hit. If you were ever brave enough to taste your own milk you know it tastes like a sweeter, less salty version of half and half. Formula is so rank tasting. Why would they not at least try to make it taste similar? Nevermind. I probably don't want to know.

Anyway. I got tons of the stuff. I gave it to shelters. I did not know what else to do as it is considered food by some poor souls. You don;t throw food away, right? I was annoyed by the insistence of Ross Laboratories that I have this product in my home. I assumed I was out of the free formula woods but then they recently sent me something about Pediasure. Apparently an Ensure-like product for toddlers who won't eat. They have a product for every contingency I guess. You can even drinks Ross Lab's lovely Ensure when you become too old to eat food. Now Ross can have you from cradle to grave. Lovely.

I see they are now playing up people's guilt about not BFing with their "New and Improved" Lipil formulas that are "even more like breastmilk". I noticed that nowhere in those ads does it say BFing is best. Is that not relevent info anymore? Are people so reassured by the new improvedness of the Ross Product that they need never look back at what it's trying and failing utterly to replace? What. Ever. Sick of that company. Want to see this practice discontinued.

Denny

MamaOui

06-01-2003, 06:14 AM

Read Milk, Money, Madness if you want to learn all about how ABM (<--- that's for you DaryLLL) companies work to get mamas and babies hooked on ABM.

I just want to point out a few things that haven't been mentioned. If they have, forgive me.

-Studies show that brand loyalty is established in the hospital for most women.

-Formula companies give big money to hospitals and peds/OB's to promote their formula. In addition to formula companies being able to hand out free samples, there is a payoff involved.

-Some formula companies have built the nurseries for hospitals and low and behold... they design them so that they are farhter away from the mothers' room making it more inconvenient to facilitate breastfeeding. This is no accident.

-The Philippines did away with free formula samples/ funding from formula companies and breastfeeding rates sky rocketed.

I realize that many women chose to formula feed, but if breastfeeding advocacy and support started at the prenatal visits and the birth and breastfeeding was seen as the norm, then maybe the rates of formula feeding would decrease.

For the record, I voted that giving away formula at the hospital should be illegal. If a mother's income is so low that she needs free formula to feed her baby, then she can use WIC. Just like if I need to pump to sustain my baby, I can go to WIC. Hospitals don't hand out free pumps for nursing mothers, so why should they hand out formula?

mama_kass

06-01-2003, 12:35 PM

Our society needs to focus on what's important instead of what makes money. Formula is big business, and with big business comes power and control. They will always be allowed to peddle there samples to hospitals and prego women even though it greatly underminds breastfeeding. Women need to see that breastfeeding is the norm and that they have support from there community. I was sent home from the hospital with formula and I thought that was disgusting. However, I was given tons of support after ds#2 in the hospital and it made such a big difference. I have filled out many forms all checking the breastfeeding boxes and have recieved a lot of product. It made me mad, but I just gave it away to babies in need. Formula companies send product to breastfeeding women counting on them becoming frustrated in those vulnerable first months. That is why society needs to counteract this problem. Educate, and support a momma today!

Mahaylea

06-01-2003, 09:07 PM

I think the companies should be able to offer free stuff, but I also think that formular shouldn't just be in the bags thatcould be offered in the hospitals to those who want it maybe..That way there would be no discouragement from b/feeding.

mamacate

06-03-2003, 08:10 PM

I voted to ban all marketing because I think that the US should pass legislation in support of the WHO code: http://www.ibfan.org/english/issue/code01.html

I think that health care providers need to communicate to mothers that ABM (hi daryl!) is a medically risky choice to be avoided if at all possible. I like this article, which talks about reframing our talk about the "advantages of BM": http://geocities.com/Heartland/8529/BF/language.html

My local hospital does follow the baby friendly hospital guidelines, but the regional hospital where I gave birth does not. I went home with two bags full of formula, which I promptly gave away to my friend who's a foster mom.

I was also thinking that WIC should give 50% of the money it saves when moms nurse *directly to the mothers* so that they can pay for those pints of ben & jerry's ice cream or a pedicure or another one of the things that nursing moms deserve to have ;). I bet that extra incentive to nurse ($ in their pockets) would make a difference for so many women that WIC (and therefore, taxpayers) would save millions! Now if only LLL had the marketing and lobbying budget that Abbott Labs has...

Cate

mama_kass

06-03-2003, 09:20 PM

I loved the Watch your Language article! I agree that WIC should be doing more to promote breastfeeding. They have gotten rid of all the formula bears and posters. They have added additional food to their breastfeeding package, but I think it is not enough.

Something that I would like to see is to make pregnant women attend breastfeeding classes. For those of you who do not know much about WIC they make women go to nutritional classes everytime they pick up checks. I would also like to see them pay for memberships to LLL. Since poor women are least likly to breastfeed the focus should be in WIC. I would also like to see breastfeeding shows on their TV instead of soap operas. They also need to take down the sign in my WIC office that says women may ask permission to have a private place to nurse. To me they are promoting our society to continue to have problems with NIP.

MamaOui

06-04-2003, 06:36 AM

Since poor women are least likly to breastfeed the focus should be in WIC.

I actually think the focus should be in the OB's/midwife's/peds/hosptials. I think lack of education about breastfeeding happens is every economic group. Yesterday, I went to see a midwife group for the first time. Everything went well.

-I liked their attitude towards the birthing process. I saw some prenatal yoga flyers, some decent magazines, a "breastfeeing welcome here sign"...No formula logos on anything.

But then...
I was given a free bag with some stuff in it. It looked harmless enough. Here's what was inside:

-Literature on their group with a birth plan form.
-A why breast is best hand out, but with some wording as not to offend formula feeders
-Lead awareness info
-Free sampels of dried prunes and oatmeal
-A coupon for bottles (sure even breastfeeders may need them, but why is this given out at the first prenatal appointment?)
-Two magazines:
-One was pretty good. No formula ads and was put together
mostly by midwives.

-The second one was one ABM ad after another. Including an article that gave breastfeeding advice and ABM advice section by section. Like they were equal or something. :tsk When I saw that it was put out by American Baby, I knew as soon as I opened it up it would be and ad for formula companies.

I felt so good about my appointment until I got home and saw that. I will be writing a letter and talking with them about it at my next appointment. I left my OB when I was pregnant with ds#2 because I was not comfortable with the breastfeeding info they gave out (made by formula companies) or their free gifts.

mama_kass

06-04-2003, 06:25 PM

http://www.breastfeedingbasics.org/cgi-bin/deliver.cgi/content/Introduction/sta_us.html

Here is a link to statistics. Looking at the chart it is clear that poor, uneducated women, and women on WIC have the lowest statistics in regards to breastfeeding success. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in this area.

MamaOui

06-04-2003, 08:00 PM

I am aware of the low breastfeeding rates among WIC participants. Moms who work full time have very low rates as well. That is why I am always wondering what is the best way to target ALL mamas. My dream would be to see proper education about breastfeeding among health care professionals who provide prenatal through postpartum care and for peds. In my fantasy, health care professionals would not be allowed to take one cent from formula companies.

MamaOui

06-04-2003, 08:09 PM

Oh I forgot to add that I think breastfeeding classes are a great idea for WIC. And maybe the next time you go to your WIC office you can ask to hang a "breastfeeding welcome here" sign and inquire about why they have the other sign up.

I think all hospitals should offer free breastfeeding classes.

PaganScribe

06-05-2003, 05:51 PM

I went into this saying I'm going to "TRY" to breastfeed. As I've posted about before, I did a lot of reading and research and talking to people about breastfeeding before I had my baby, and the overwhelming message I got was "It's very hard and most people can't do it" -- either because of physical hurdles or because of undermining hospitals and doctors or because of lack of support. I heard over and over and over again "It's worth trying but it's VERY HARD and most folks can't do it, but if you (by some miracle) can, it's worth how terrible it is." I'd have been insane to go into it thinking that I was going to DO it, rather than TRY it, because my body's never done anything I've asked it to before in my life, why would it start now?

So I said "I'm going to TRY, but I don't think I'm going to be able to." And it was easy, and it worked, and I'm thrilled. And I did have thrush, and they gave my baby a pacifier while he was in the hospital, and I had an unplanned C-section and didn't get to see him for more than an hour after birth, and no two nurses who were "teaching" me how to bf said the same thing, and my milk didn't come in for five days, and I had one nurse tell me "He's screaming like he's starving to death -- I gave him a pacifier, but what he really needs is something to eat." My doctor prescribed formula supplements because of his jaundice (we just smiled and nodded and didn't give him any formula). But it was easy -- and it didn't occur to me to give up, even though I was only "trying."

Maybe I was just lucky that it was so easy for me. But now y'all can say that you've "known" someone who was going to "just try" to bf that did succeed -- Nate was exclusively bf for his first six months.

NOW, to be more on-topic, about the ABM:

I'm of the opinion that we don't need anymore government regulation of private business, but I think consumers (patients!) have the power to change these practices if we'd just take that power. That would require an educated populace, though. If the consumers aren't educated, they aren't going to be able to take that power for themselves.

Actually, I was glad to have the samples -- not at the beginning, but just recently. In the middle of May, we had a crisis in my family -- my grandfather very unexpectedly decided he was ready to die and refused any treatment, after being in ICU for six weeks. Over the next several days, I sat with him and after he died, did anything I could to help my mom. What I didn't do was pump. And then I got really sick.

So the last two weeks he was at daycare before summer, I couldn't keep up with him. He had two bottles of formula that first day we were back, and then a bottle on several other days when I just didn't pump enough.

I was really, really disappointed about having to give up my "He never had a drop of formula!" badge -- the fact that I went into such a long explanation kind of indicates I'm defensive, doesn't it? -- but the simple fact is, I didn't have another viable alternative, at least not in my very addled brain over that time period. Looking back, it was still the best choice for me in that situation -- if the formula samples hadn't been in the house, I'd have had to go out and buy some at six o'clock that first morning back -- but the situation did make me very aware of how having formula in the house could make it easy for someone struggling to say "well, I'll just give him this one bottle of formula . . . " because it was very easy, since the formula was just right there.

But I didn't even come close to going through the free formula they gave me at the hospital, so I took advantage of their "generosity" even though they have NO chance of ever getting me as a customer.

I am rambling; sorry; I'm still sick and very out of it right now. I'll quit after I ask one more (off topic again) question:

Our hospital had some kind of designation as a "breastfeeding friendly" hospital -- I don't remember the exact term -- and had a list of ten "commandments" they had to follow to get that title. (I'll spare my rant about the fact that NO PACIFIERS was part of that checklist and I saw how much good that did!) Nothing about formula was listed, and they did in fact give me formula samples. Does this mean they are doing something fraudulent (claiming this designation when they don't deserve it) or are there different guidelines for different "baby-friendly"-type designations?

dentente

06-06-2003, 11:13 AM

Well, I like you already and I don't even know you. You are honest about your experience. Always cool.

Denny

Viola

06-06-2003, 06:02 PM

Carrie, that's an interesting story because I also said I was going to try and breastfeed. Actually, I think I always said that I was planning on breastfeeding. I read up about it in books like the Baby Book and The Nursing Mother's Companion. I had a doula and my plan was not to let the hospital give any formula. It didn't work out that way, after all, and for some reason I was just thinking of this when I woke up at 4 am today and couldn't get back to sleep.

In the hospital the nurse told me that my daughter's blood sugar was low and I could either nurse some more or give some formula. I said nurse. After nursing, she still decided that her blood sugar was low and told me she'd like me to give her some formula, and here's why: if her blood sugar stays low, she will get sluggish and won't want to breastfeed and that will get your breastfeeding relationship off to a poor start. I said that I was worried about nipple confusion, and the nurse told me that nipple confusion wouldn't be a problem as long as I always nursed first before offering the formula. Well, I tried to feed the formula, a little pissed off at it all, and she didn't like it and wouldn't drink it. So I gave up. My doula offered to feed her the formula for me, so I let her. Apparently she drank an ounce, but it seemed like she was letting it all run out of her mouth so I don't know how much she ingested.

Then once we were in our room together, I was supposed to keep offering her formula until they told me her blood sugar level was fine. Well, I did try, but she wouldn't drink it and I said to heck with it and just nursed her. Later they told me her blood sugar was fine and I could discontinue the formula. I already had.

Thinking about it, sheesh, I was educated I thought, but it seems like such a stupid thing to have done. To force a baby out of the womb less than an hour to drink an ounce of formula?

I don't know if it was the formula use that caused the next situation, or if this is just normal. But about 2 days after she was born and my milk hadn't come in, she kept latching on, nursing for a bit, and screaming as if there was nothing there. This was around midnight or so. I was in pain and she was screaming, and she didn't want to keep trying to nurse. So I told my husband to go down and get the formula sample and mix it up. He fed the bottle, she gulped down an ounce and then refused anymore. My milk came in the next day and I never used formula again. So I can't claim exclusive breastfeeding, but I always do anyway. Heck, she nursed for 4 years and didn't really eat solids until she was a year old, so I figure my milk is what grew her. It just happened that on that one night she seemed really hungry and wasn't getting anything from me. It's possible that the extra formula she got in the hospital messed things up, and that I should have just gotten through the night and let her scream instead of giving her the abm, but I'm not sorry that I let her have it.

I still think that the initial formula at the hospital was uneccessary, and I don't plan on repeating that scenario again. She didn't have low blood sugar anyway, just a little lower than they liked to see. :rolleyes:

I always knew in the back of my mind that even though I was using the formula, I was going to breastfeed, doggone it, so I must have made up my mind that I wasn't going to just try. The funny thing is that my daughter definitely developed nipple preference. I could never get her to take a bottle of ebm even though there were times when that really would have come in handy. I guess I was lucky in that regard, though, because it could have gone the other way.

DaryLLL

06-07-2003, 09:46 AM

Pagan Scribe-

Thanks for sharing your story. I am glad you had a successful bfing experience. It really makes me see red tho, that your hospital went against its guidelines for establishing lactation! Hospitals have to work very hard to become designated "Baby Friendly." Here is the list of do's and don't's established by WHO ansd UNICEF.

http://home.onemain.com/~ct1008688/bfusa.htm

The Ten Steps to Successful Breastfeeding are

1. Have a written breastfeeding policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
2. Train all health care staff in skills necessary to implement this policy.
3. Inform all pregnant women about the benefits and management of breastfeeding.
4. Help mothers initiate breastfeeding within an hour of birth.
5. Show mothers how to breastfeed and how to maintain lactation, even if they should be separated from their infants.
6. Give newborn infants no food or drink other than breastmilk, unless medically indicated.
7. Practice "rooming in" by allowing mothers and infants to remain together 24 hours a day.
8. Encourage breastfeeding on demand.
9. Give no artificial teats, pacifiers, dummies, or soothers to breastfeeding infants.
10. Foster the establishment of breastfeeding support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or birthing center.

As you said no two nurses told you the same bfing info, obviously they have violated #s 1 and 2. If the nurse was giving a pacifier without telling you first, it seems you weren't rooming in. Violating #s 7 and 9. What else did they violate? I would urge you to write a letter to the LC at the hospital, to the OB head of maternity, the director of the hospital and the Baby Friendly organization itself. This hosp is operating under false pretenses!

I am so sorry for the loss of your grandfather, and the stress involved probably causing you to get sick. Feel better soon! I hope, when you feel better, you want to take action on your hospital's fallacious claim of being Baby Friendly.

Amywillo--

Your exp with the "low blood sugar" also makes me angry. I can so relate, I had a similar exp with my first daughter. After a c-sec and a couple more days in the hosp, they told me my (born at 10 lbs 2 oz) baby had lost too much weight. As if she couldn't afford it. I often think her weight was artifically raised b/c of all the IV fluids I had (well, I think that now, not at the time of course). So, as my milk was not in, I was told to give her a bottle of sugar water. She choked and spuutered and had an oz, mostly down her front. Of course, giving a bottle to a newborn, who had been latching well, ran a great risk of causing nipple confusion.

Later in the day, she "gained" 8 oz over what they had told me she had been in the morning. Obviously the drops of sugar water did not cause the "weight gain." I'm thinking she was weighed just after a poop or something. Also, I had sent her to the nursery so I could take my first shower, and I believe 3 hours had gone by between nursings.

OTOH, the prev night, she was fussing for me, I was walking the floor and told a nurse about her fussiness and she just calmly said, "Sounds like a baby to me. Just soothe her and keep encourging her to nurse."

Cut to baby#3. He ws born at home, and didn't get mad at the slow colostrum. He just nursed for 3 hours straight his first night. My milk came in in 24 hours. I would suggest, if your baby is said to have "low blood sugar," is too tired or frustratied to nurse, ask for a pump (instead of ABM) and stimulate your breasts yourself, to bring in your milk. If you are recovering from surgery, take very good care of yourself, eat and drink well, and take your pain meds if you need them, so you are as comfortable and non-stressed as possible. Limit visitors of course, so you can relax with your breasts out as you nurse.

PaganScribe

06-07-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by DaryLLL
[B]As you said no two nurses told you the same bfing info, obviously they have violated #s 1 and 2. If the nurse was giving a pacifier without telling you first, it seems you weren't rooming in. Violating #s 7 and 9. What else did they violate? I would urge you to write a letter to the LC at the hospital, to the OB head of maternity, the director of the hospital and the Baby Friendly organization itself. This hosp is operating under false pretenses!

Those seem similar to, but not exactly the same as, the "ten commandments" for breastfeeding they had posted all over the place. So maybe the designation they were claiming wasn't "baby friendly" -- I'll have to look through my paperwork and see -- they weren't on the list on the site you linked to.

I was "rooming in" but they took my baby away for about an hour in the mornings to examine and weigh and bathe him -- I feel terrible about that now, but I was soo drugged up from the C-section and kidney stone, and sooo exhausted, that I didn't protest it at the time. Ugh.

I am so sorry for the loss of your grandfather, and the stress involved probably causing you to get sick. Feel better soon! I hope, when you feel better, you want to take action on your hospital's fallacious claim of being Baby Friendly.

Thanks for the good thoughts. I have already filed one complaint with the hospital about the nurse who gave my child a pacifier without telling me about it (and accused me of starving my baby to death). As I do more thinking about my experience in the hospital, I am considering writing another letter of complaint about several aspects of my hospital experience. I don't think I will want to birth in that hospital again, even though I had heard great things about it from other women.

In fact, I had been told by one couple (who gave up bfing once they got home) that the nurses there were "bfing Nazis" (which made me see red!) and that bfing was all they cared about. Ha!

The funny thing is I do give Nate a paci now, and have since he was about 6 weeks old. I have no philosophical problems with pacis when not abused; I just didn't want anything preventable causing bfing problems (since it was going to be so hard anyway!).

candiland

06-07-2003, 10:32 AM

Whoa. My baby did not eat for the first three days of her life, was extremely sluggish, then I had cracked, bleeding, pussing nipples for over a month, developed thrush for the next few months that was sooo painful I cried through every single nursing session... but there was no way my baby was going to have formula.
If I would have been in the hospital, I probably would have ended up formula feeding. Honestly, most people in the healthcare industry are so incredibly idiotic when it comes to this most basic function of the female body. My first, despite every single horrific breastfeeding circumstance I could have possibly imagined, was in the 95% on the growth charts for the first six months of life! If hospitals weren't so quick to give out those handy dandy free formula samples - which absolutely should only be used in a true emergency - I really think the majority of women could and would nurse their babies successfully. It just makes me ill that profit has no moral standards. You can screw up a child's system for the rest of its life by giving formula. But who cares, I guess, when we're talking about billions of dollars in revenue each year:confused:
How ironic that in a patriarchal medical establishment, women's bodies are not trusted to perform their most basic evolutionary tasks.