Support for Parents of Gifted Children, #4 [Archive]

NoHiddenFees

04-15-2005, 09:53 PM

From the old thread:

This is my first time posting here & I apologize if I am jumping in just as it looks like you are about to start a new thread.

I saw this addressed a bit in this thread (Paganscribe's post, I think), but I am wondering how you all go about dealing with other parents who are jealous and/or competitive. We have really been having a hard time with this this year w/ my dd's bestfriend's mom. Our kids are 4 months apart in age, but in different grades b/c mine just made the cut-off to start kg last year. This whole year since dd's friend started kg, I have heard non-stop from the mom of this kid how smart her kid is & how much better than my dd.

She called me yesterday to tell me that her kg teacher told her that her child is reading level 8 books & is at a 3rd grade reading level. Now, I know that there are other children who are brighter than my dd. My dd is a smart girl & is above grade level for math & reading (4th-5th for reading & 2nd-3rd for math - she's in first), but I know that she is not the smartest kid around. If a parent whose child truly was academically beyond my dd told me so, it would not bug me in the least. It would just be the way things are.

However, I know how the reader level system works in this school & level 8 books are late year kindergarten books. They expect them to be at 16-20 level at the start of 2nd grade, so I know that level 8 isn't third grade level. I have also seen her dd read (since mom keeps sitting her dd down in front of us & having her read) & she can read really basic stuff like Dick & Jane okay, but she isn't above grade level.

This mom seems to be on a mission to show me how her dd is doing as well (or generally better) than my dd despite being in a younger grade. It is really irking me although I'm sure that it is coming from insecurity or maybe she really does think that her kids is smarter than she is. I don't want to ruin a friendship, but I really would like her to lay off. I also feel badly if the kg teacher (who is pretty inexperienced) is really telling her that her dd is that advanced b/c she is going to be in for a rude awakening at some point when she has a more experienced teacher. Do I just let this drop & try to work on not getting irritated myself when a mom whose kid is very average (but a just fine kid) keeps telling me that her dd is smarter than my child (who really is advanced)?

NoHiddenFees

04-15-2005, 10:28 PM

ChristaN:

I have one friend like that and I've just had to stop seeing her very often. I tried gently explaining that I believe that younger kids learn mostly from play in a noncompetitive environment. Practically every time DD1 said or did anything that showed her to be even the slightest bit advanced, she would start literally drilling her son. One day when the kids were about 18 months old, we were at a local children's restaurant and DD1 referred to a "blue" something or other. My friend proceeded to point colours out to her son for a full 10 minutes and encourage him to say the colour name after her "just like DD1." Mind you, he wasn't even very verbal at this point. It was just painful and I felt so badly for the boy.

I'd encourage you to try to look at the situation without factoring you and your daughter in at all. This friend may be irking you, but I fear that she may be doing some real damage to her daughter. She probably wouldn't be receptive to that suggestion, but perhaps you could find a way to communicate to her that you are uncomfortable with the idea of comparing your children. I hope you have better luck than I did in salvaging a friendship.

eilonwy

04-16-2005, 05:50 PM

I'd encourage you to try to look at the situation without factoring you and your daughter in at all. This friend may be irking you, but I fear that she may be doing some real damage to her daughter.

:nod Christa, when I read your post, all I could think was "that poor little girl!" Her mother is really laying a headtrip on her. :(

As to the reading levels: maybe her mother doesn't know what they mean, and thinks that "level 8" means it's for 8 year old children and that's how she gets her whole "third grade" idea. It could be an honest mistake from someone who just has no clue what the teachers are talking about (and really, they speak jargon so that noone will know; those reading levels are practically indecipherable because there are so many different scales). That wouldn't excuse her behavior (making her daughter sit down and read to prove something to you) but it might explain some of it.

:HugI'm not sure what I'd do in such a situation. Truthfully, I work hard to stay out of them at this point. :bag: My kids are still very young, so I can generally avoid the conversations by saying things like "isn't it amazing how every child develops on their own timetable?" or simply "I'm not worried about him/her." BeanBean has made friends with the boy next door who is 4.5 and they get along very well; his mother and I don't discuss child development/levels at all. He'll start kindergarten this year or next (I'm not sure what the cutoff is in this district; I'm planning to homeschool), and I'm sure that school will eventually come up, but by keeping BeanBean out of school I'm hoping to avoid the competition with other parents.

ChristaN

04-16-2005, 05:53 PM

Thanks NoHiddenFees (also for moving my post here). This mom & I seem to be drifting a bit anyway & it seems the topic of most of the conversations that we do have now are about how advanced her dd is. I figure that no one other than my, my dh & my parents want to hear that I think that my kids are really bright :LOL , but I guess that she just hasn't gotten to that place yet.

I really have been trying hard to not get into the game of comparisons; I just say that it is great that her dd is doing well, but I find myself really bothered inside. I think that (my internal irritation) is what I need to work on for the most part. As to whether she is pushing her dd, I really don't know. I think that she seems to be interpreting normal development as signs of genius. I am thinking that I just need to not go out of my way to find reasons to call her since we don't seem to have much to talk about anymore anyway, but to leave things at a pleasant, if distant, place.

She seems to have taken to hanging out a lot with two of the moms in her dd's class who are in their early 20s (we are early to mid 30s) right now anyway. Maybe they are filling some need to make her feel really good about her and/or her child right now that I am not.

ChristaN

04-16-2005, 05:58 PM

As to the reading levels: maybe her mother doesn't know what they mean, and thinks that "level 8" means it's for 8 year old children and that's how she gets her whole "third grade" idea.

What she told me was that the teacher said that "they stopped testing [her child] because she is now reading level 8 books, which is 3rd grade level." So, I am scratching my head (I know there are a bizzilion scales), but I have seen her dd read & where she is at seems to be right about at the level 8 that I am familiar with (the one used in this school that correlates with kindergarten reading). The only conclusion that I have been able to draw is that the mom is lying in order to inflate how smart her dd looks (the teacher said level 8, but not the stuff about it being 3rd grade level) or the teacher is totally incompetent & doesn't know what 3rd grade reading level looks like at all.

I just don't know. :scratch

NoHiddenFees

04-17-2005, 12:29 AM

As to whether she is pushing her dd, I really don't know. I think that she seems to be interpreting normal development as signs of genius.I don't think it's necessarily a question of pushing so much as her sending screwed up signals to her daughter not only about how she is valued but also that her value determined by comparison with others. Even if her child were indeed a genius, I think it's harmful to encourage the development of self worth using any reference other than yourself.

lckrause

04-17-2005, 07:55 AM

Yeah, what NoHiddenFees said. That lady's attitude seems pretty messed up. I have a friend sort of like that who is always trying to compare our sons (we lived near each other until our sons were 5... now she compares them via email!). She's one of those ones who puts her kid in 8000 activities to try to make him a more "well-rounded" person.

Lisa

ChristaN

04-17-2005, 09:41 AM

I don't think it's necessarily a question of pushing so much as her sending screwed up signals to her daughter not only about how she is valued but also that her value determined by comparison with others. Even if her child were indeed a genius, I think it's harmful to encourage the development of self worth using any reference other than yourself.
Yes, you are definately right there, but I don't know how to communicate that without causing a huge blow-up & making her very upset with me. I guess that I am hoping that it is just a proud mom with her first school aged child (kind of how many people compare their babies development with their first children) & that mom will 'outgrow' it by next year after she has had more time to get used to being a parent of a school aged kid.

It does seem that public schools in general do encourage children to view themselves in comparison to how they stack up to others. My dd's teacher broke the entire class up into color-coded groups based on ability which led to natural comparisons of the childrens' abilities (especially since the groups were red, yellow & green & the kids are also given behavior rankings based on the same colors).

We have had a very difficult year & have actually taken dd out to homeschool at this point. She will be going back to a much better fit of a teacher next year who doesn't feel the need to push the more advanced kids to make herself look good as a teacher. My dd is much happier learning at home at this point and she isn't missing recess every day in order to work more & get to the next higher level on books, math, etc. I just sound like a big complainer, don't I? This has just been a tough year in many ways.

NoHiddenFees

04-17-2005, 02:27 PM

I just sound like a big complainer, don't I? This has just been a tough year in many ways.Not at all. :) Have you read:

A Nation Deceived (http://nationdeceived.org/)

or

Genius Denied (http://www.geniusdenied.com/)?

The Yahoo group GT-Familes is a good browse to see how parents of gifted kids are faring with public and private schools. We're going to homeschool, so I only read occasionally, but some of the stories are heartwrenching. Hoagies (http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/) also has a tonne of info on how to deal with school systems.

Gotta run... baby...

ChristaN

04-17-2005, 08:11 PM

Well, I guess the situation with the friend came to a bit of a head anyway. Our kids were together earlier & the other mom called me up very upset b/c she said that my dd told her that I said that her child could not read certain books. I was racking my brain to figure out what I had said to my dd & apologized if I had led her to believe anything of that sort. She then told me that I had been blowing her off when she was telling me how well her dd was doing since I just have been responding that that is great & moving on. She feels that I am being competitive & self absorbed b/c I am not responding more favorably to her dd's progress.

Anyway, so when I talked to my dd later, she said that her friend's mom had been quizzing her on what she was able to read & asking her what "level" she was reading at. My dd said that her friend's mom told her to her dd could read as well as she does & apparently my dd responded something like, "oh, my mom said that she couldn't read some book that my younger sister was trying to read."

Now, in thinking about it, my younger dd was trying to read a rather difficult book a few days ago & getting very frustrated & I think that I did say something like, "that's a hard book & even big kindergarteners as big as [friend's child] can't always read that." I was really only trying to lessen my dd's frustration by telling her that she was trying to do something that was very difficult & she shouldn't expect so much of herself since she isn't even a "big kindergartener" yet, but I may have messed up. I apologized to the friend's mom & my kids for putting them in that spot, but I do feel bad. I'm sure that I shouldn't have added "as big as x child" into my discussion with my younger child :blush .

However, I also find myself rather bugged that she was quizzing my kid on her abilities & comparing the two of them right in front of the kids. Given how mad the other mom was during this conversation, I don't think that I want to get into this discussion again, so I don't even know if I bring up the fact that my dd's story is a bit different than the way she presented it to me. I don't want my kids getting dragged into this, though. Just venting... no need to try to solve all of my problems!

eta: And, no, I haven't read either of those two books. I will check them out. My dd's "giftedness" hasn't really been a problem up to this point. I just kept her adequately challenged at home & all was well. We've just had a hard time this year since the first grade teacher seemed to be on a mission to get all of the kids in her class (especially the higher achieving ones) to do more, more, more, faster, faster & stressed them all out in the process. Then there has been the friend issue. I'll try to stop making this all about me now!

BTW, are most of you homeschooling or planning to do so? Anyone having an okay experience with gifted children in public school?

eilonwy

04-19-2005, 03:37 PM

It does seem that public schools in general do encourage children to view themselves in comparison to how they stack up to others. My dd's teacher broke the entire class up into color-coded groups based on ability which led to natural comparisons of the childrens' abilities (especially since the groups were red, yellow & green & the kids are also given behavior rankings based on the same colors).

Wow is that ever a mistake. I'd like to say that it's related to inexperience, but good lord haven't these people ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecy? Doesn't she realize that telling a child "You behaved badly, you're in the red group" and then telling them that they're in the red reading group is the same as telling the kid flat-out that they're "bad" readers? :shake :nono

Public school and the gifted child: In the last thread, Charles Baudelaire wrote a really good post about it. I think it's on the second-to-last page, but I'm not sure. I can tell you that as a profoundly gifted child, I was never challenged at all, to say nothing of educated. It was a complete waste of time. :shrug My kids are homeschooling. If you can do it, I say go for it, but I would encourage anyone who has the time and energy to consider homeschooling, regardless of how gifted the child is or isn't. :D

Foobar

04-19-2005, 03:41 PM

Hey! Found you! I was wondering where my daily email was!

Goo is fighting potty still (TELL ME THIS ENDS!!!) She decided to wear panties the other day just to refuse to pee in the potty. Apparently, The floor at Radio Shack is better for peeing.

The other day, Goo blew us away by iusing the phrase "the Clouds are parting" to describe something on Dora. Wow. I think it must be because I get very descriptive when talking to her and Moo.

I am planning on sending my kids to public schools. That said, I think Goo is advanced, but not willing to go all the way gifted. I was labeled gifted and did ok in public schools, but I think I would offer my kids some extra challenge if they showed signs of needing it.

Ryanna- Moo is trying to walk!! YIKES! She used the walking toy the other day and yesterday she climbed a flight of stairs before I noticed! (bad mommy)
I figure since Boobah and Moo are the same age and they are doing the same things, you'd get a kick out of it!

USAmma

04-20-2005, 01:01 PM

Hey! Found you! I was wondering where my daily email was!

Goo is fighting potty still (TELL ME THIS ENDS!!!) She decided to wear panties the other day just to refuse to pee in the potty. Apparently, The floor at Radio Shack is better for peeing.

Abi learned to read before she learned to use the potty on a regular basis. :eyesroll I have heard it's hereditary so in that case our girls don't have much of a chance with early potty training. Abi potty trained at 3.8 years old, and at age 4.5 still has the occasional accident.

Hang in there. When she starts school she'll stop having accidents because of peer pressure. Sometimes peer pressure is a good thing.

Foobar

04-20-2005, 03:13 PM

I was thinking today about potty.. It is MY obsession.

We don't call her a big girl. We use medium girl because she does some little girl things and some big girl things.

I wonder if she is afraid of dissapointing me. She really needs approval on these things and I think she is afriad of me getting upset. (which I do, but I try not to show it...WHY am I obsessed about having her out of pullups???). I know she was doing well until her teacher at daycare criticized her to us infront of her (yes, I talked to the daycare director and got that all settled out)....I wonder... She is in preschool at daycare. Just started and I am hoping the peer pressure kicks in....

lckrause

04-20-2005, 05:35 PM

Neither of my kids was fully potty trained until 3.5, IIRC. I think with MOST kids if you leave them alone about it, and don't count "mommy training" as potty training, that's probably the average age.

eilonwy

04-21-2005, 12:15 PM

Hm. Well, BeanBean uses the toilet at home all the time (he especially likes to flush) but when he's playing outside he often gets distracted. If I'm feeling energetic, I'll ask him to use the baby bjorn seat but usually that's too much of an argument while he's busy playing with his friends, so I just put a diaper on him. As often as not, it's dry when he comes inside. His friend is 4.5 and his mother will periodically ask him to use the potty, and when that happens BeanBean is willing to come in and use the toilet, too. :thumb

It's a very individual thing, though, and it's all him. He tried to get himself out of diapers while I was too pregnant to comfortably squat with him. :LOL Most of the time during the day, I only find out that he's gone to the bathroom when I hear the toilet flush or hear him washing his hands afterwards. :shrug He's just an independant litte fellow.

Mike and I were discussing dependance. It comes up a lot at work for him, because his coworkers know that our kids are both in bed with us and both nursing. They think that Mike is nuts, but he gets more sleep than they do. :LOL Anyway, I was talking about how "early weaning and putting kids in their own cribs from birth" is the way to make them independant. We had a good laugh about it, because BeanBean is one of the most independant 2.5 year olds I've ever seen.

Foobar-- that's so cool! There's one baby who's fully walking in the June Babies thread over in LWAB, and one who's very close like BooBah (Killy, who's actually a May baby ;)). I think a few others have started standing, and there are a few more cruisers and some who are crawling and wiggling. Anyway, now that BooBah's not "the first walker" I can talk about her a little bit again. :o I'm waiting for another baby to start singing or clapping in rhythm or dancing next. :LOL There are a few more babies who say some words, too, and that's great. :thumb The first year is such a busy time, and the kids grow and change so much, but unless you have strong reason to suspect that they're likely to be gifted (as I do) you can't really say anything about their future based on how early they crawl/walk/sing/etc. I just wish that when I say something like "BooBah is trying to walk" others wouldn't interpret it as "my baby is smarter than your baby" or "I'm a better mother than you are because your kid is barely crawling." They're so totally unrelated! I think that BooBah's physical skills are certainly an expression of her giftedness, but if that was all there was I wouldn't feel confident saying "she's probably a very bright kid."

ChibiChibi is totally impressed by BooBah's rhythm. :LOL She loves tapping something out and watching BooBah tap it back. :LOL Super cute!!

Foobar

04-21-2005, 02:51 PM

Ok- THis probably should be in toddlers, but can I ask here? How do I, as the mommy, NOT get stressed about potty? It drives me nuts! I can't stand that she has poop up against her butt or that she will stand and pee on herself. I change her ASASLM (as soon as she lets me), but still...

This does appear to be a competative thing for me? Or is it? I can't tell....
UGH!

LeftField

04-21-2005, 05:37 PM

Wrt potty training, I thought my son would never do it. He trained at about 3.5 yrs old, in two weeks. Really, it was less than that, but that's as long as it took for me to feel comfortable that he wouldn't have accidents. His issue, if you will, was that he is a huge perfectionist. He will not attempt most things unless he's sure that he can do it. And he doesn't like to make a mess. So he wouldn't even attempt toileting, because it was too much of a "what if" for him. When he was finally ready, he did it all the way. It took minimal coaching on our part. I'm biased from my one measley experience, but anything less than 3yrs old seems really early to me.

I have a question, totally unrelated. Do any of your extended family act weird about your dc's giftedness?

My ILs are wonderful people. I adore them so much. They are wonderful with my children. My MIL is in early education and not only is she a natural with children, but she's a huge supporter of our decision to homeschool. But she's a bit weird about ds1's abilities. They get regular emails from me, updating them on the kids. Dh talks to them every week too (we live a long way from them).

Ds has been writing/copying words for almost a year. I've mailed them things that he's made, including a recent note that I dictated to him. But on a recent visit, MIL said, in an astonished voice to me, "Wait until you see this. Ds wrote the letter, 'B'!" :scratch Later, they were drawing and ds wanted to draw seaweed. They were going to "help" him, but he talked over them, saying, "First, we need to draw a rectangle for the bottom." Then, he apparently traced his hand above that to make the seaweed effect. I was reading in the other room and I heard MIL ask him, in a hushed tone, "Did your mother show you how to do that?" I heard him reply, "No." and then she asked, "Did your Daddy show you that?"

In the past, when he was comfortably doing 60 piece puzzles, she would "help" him do, like, 24 piece puzzles that he mastered at 24 months. I didn't care, as long as he was having fun, but then, she'd make a big deal to me how he got some sky piece in by himself. :scratch

Also, at our recent visit, she exclaimed, "You know how to use scissors!!", when I had recently sent a photo of a detailed paper digger that ds created by himself; among the many cut pieces were tiny cut triangles for the shovel of the digger.

She's a great MIL and a wonderful grandmother. The way I look at it, she's excited about spending time with the kids and ds1 is having fun. He has the kind of personality that "hides" a lot of who he is. If you met him, you might not hear much out of him. Plus, he jumps at the chance to do anything with his grandparents. He'd gladly do a 4 piece puzzle if it meant spending time with them. He's very unaware of levels right now; he just does what makes him happy.

So, I realize this is probably a non-issue since they're all having fun. But it drives me nuts on some level, because now I'm paranoid that they think I'm exaggerating his abilities. I guess I don't want them to think that I'm a braggy mother who is making things up or embellishing things for attention. I'm not! I am very matter-of-fact about things. If he were learning the alphabet for the first time, I'd have the same approach and tone.

Anyway, I guess that's more of a vent than anything else. I'm curious if anyone else's family is skeptical or weird about this sort of thing.

eilonwy

04-21-2005, 08:15 PM

Well, my mother is stuck in "my baby is better than your baby" mode, despite the fact that her youngest "baby" is 23 years old and has two children of her own. :eyesroll She thinks that normal kids are abnormal, and was very concerned when BeanBean wasn't speaking in full, clear sentences just like a grownup at 11 months. Seriously. :eyesroll She knows that he's gifted, but because he doesn't do the strange highly/profoundly gifted things (and I mean *all* of them, *all* the time) she's just got to point out all the things that he doesn't do and she refuses to be impressed with anything that he can/does do.

Mike's parents are similar to your IL's, except that they want to brag about him so they'll tell anyone anything. I worry a little bit about it, because FIL in particular likes to "show him off" and I really don't think that's healthy behavior. MIL is much more relaxed. She didn't really understand how exceptional his behaviors were until she started talking with co-workers who have grandchildren/nieces/nephews the same age. She's pretty cool for the most part, though. She knows we're not exagerating because she sees him every weekend and he's very comfortable with her. :thumb It's all good. Yeah, my mom's the big problem. :shake

In your position... well, my first thought is "don't worry about it too much" but I have to tell you, someone accused me of unwarranted bragging about BeanBean in my blog and it really offended me. :LOL I don't want to be percieved that way, I don't think any of us do. :shrug I dunno, I'll have to think about that one.

ChristaN

04-24-2005, 03:50 PM

Dd#1 realised recently that people eat meat (we don't and she hasnt come into contact with it, and I've purposely steered her from realising due to all her issues and intense anxieties over death and growing up) Now she wants to start a 'campaign' to stop people 'everywhere' from ever eating animals. Yesterday she lectured us in the car about how it was 'just wrong and mean'.

She sounds a lot like my older dd. I think that mine has finally gotten to the point where she is able to let other people make their own decisions even if she doesn't agree with them, but it was really hard last year. It is hard for kids to understand why everyone doesn't think about the same things that they do and view them the same way.

The Lucky One

04-24-2005, 09:58 PM

Hi ladies! I hope you don't mind my intrusion, I never can keep up with these 'buddy group' type longish threads, so I rarely post on them, but I do read, so I am familiar with most of you and your children. Enough so to know that many of you are dealing with perfectionism issues and sensitivity issues with your gifted children. Would it be too much trouble for you to look at my thread (http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=277852) over in the gentle discipline forum and give your thoughts? I would very much appreciate your opinions since some of you may be able to relate.

TIA!

mamamillie

04-24-2005, 11:22 PM

Hi mamas, hope no one minds my signing on to this thread. I saw the title and came in to read, wanting to post about this:
I have a question, totally unrelated. Do any of your extended family act weird about your dc's giftedness? So I am glad someone has already brought it up. DS is 3 and he is obviously gifted verbally. This became apparent quite early, as he was speaking a few single words by 6 months and 3 word sentences (as well as recognizing some words) at a year. He was speaking words before he could sit up, sentences before he could walk, and yeah, reading well long before he used the potty :LOL
The problem I have is how the extended family shows him off at get togethers, constantly drills or tests him (Can you read this? What does this say?) He feels pressured and awkward in these situations. It has been going on for some time...I started cringing when he first learned his letters and his grandma held him at the fridge and invited every single guest at her party to come and see that he knew his letters. This whole thing bothers me particularly because I feel like ds is learning from it that he is special because he can read or whatever and not that he is special simply because he is, iykwim. For the most part I have bit my tongue, although there was one time when my b-i-l was visiting and had a large group of his friends over and they were all crowded around ds w a road atlas making him read the state names (I think he was right about 2 when this occurred). This episode was over the top and I was seriously offended, as it felt to me that they were treating him like some kind of circus freak! I pretty much went off on b-i-l over this. But the behavior (to a less extreme degree) persists from all of them. Recently, while visiting my parents, ds asked my dad to read him a story, and my dad refused and coerced ds into reading it to him instead...apparently because he can read himself, he is no longer allowed to enjoy having someone else read to him? I will stop ranting now, but I would love to know how you all have handled this kind of treatment of your dc.
Millie

lckrause

04-25-2005, 07:58 AM

Hi Millie and welcome to the thread. :) This hasn't been an issue with my kids, but if I were you I would definitely say something. If you don't, the relatives will think their behavior is okay and it will probably get worse. If you aren't confrontational, maybe you could write a letter instead?

allgirls

04-25-2005, 09:59 AM

luvmypoonchkie

04-25-2005, 10:46 AM

Brittany Murphy the actress??? Trust me, I've seen interviews with the girl, if she was speaking at 4.5 months it wasn't due to profound giftedness, maybe Williams syndrome.

isisjade

04-25-2005, 12:46 PM

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mamamillie

04-25-2005, 01:08 PM

Well, we all know that "experts" and doctors are often wrong! I am positive it is possible for babies to speak much earlier than 8 mos, because mine did.
I am not certain that I am remembering correctly, but I would say he had more than 10 words before 8 mos. That isn't counting words he echoed but wasn't using (I remember clearly he said "monkey" clear as day at 7 months, but he just repeated it, didn't use it again.
I also saw someone post something said by an "expert" recently stating that it is impossible for children to read well before six years old because their eye muscles aren't sufficiently developed for tracking words on the page. Maybe these statements are true for some children or even maybe most children, but there are absolutely exceptions...although I will say that this eye tracking muscle thing must be a factor in reading as I have noticed it w my ds. He was able to read ANY word for a long time before he was able to read even simple sentences and still now will not read a book w too many words on a page...he can read complicated text and extremely long words in picture books or whatever where there are a few sentences on a page but won't read simplistic text like in early readers, if there are too many sentences on the same page.

eilonwy

04-25-2005, 01:15 PM

hi ladies...love reading about your fascinating children...I was wondering if any of you saw the Ellen Degeneres show which had Brittany Murpy on who was saying words at 4.5 mos old and Dr. Bob Sears(son of William and Martha) were on and basically said it was impossible until 8-12mos for babies to speak words. I know it isn't true..Sophia could sign milk at 5mos and had several words at 6 and I know some of you with profoundly gifted children had words younger than 4mos.

Just curious as to your thoughts on this

My thoughts: :LOL :laugh:

Okay. Now to be serious. People have told me all sorts of things about my childhood are "impossible." For example, I've been told many times that it's not possible to remember events that happened before you a)learn to read, b)learn to speak well or c) are almost four years old. I have very clear memory from 18 months on; I was speaking well by then, but not yet reading and obviously not anywhere near four. I've been told that it's not physically possible to speak before the age of 12 months. Well, it makes sense to say that the mechanics of adult speech cannot be fully developed before 12 months, but to make the leap and say that it's not possible to speak at all strikes me as ridiculous. Both of my kids said words long before 12 months. BooBah doesn't talk nearly as much or as clearly as her brother did, but she's got quite a few words. It definately happens.

lckrause

04-25-2005, 04:34 PM

Yeah, someone on another thread said they learned in a class that kids couldn't read before certain sections of the brain bridged (sorry, can't remember the details but if you check my recent posts you'll find it) at age 6 or so. Obviously not true, as there are many kids on this thread who learned to read at ages 2 and 3. I've heard similar arbitrary things about physical milestones and talking, etc. Someone once told me my daughter (as she was toddling across the room!!) "couldn't" be walking at 8 months because she hadn't reached X number of pounds yet. Um, whatever. Frankly I think people just like to spout BS as gospel truth because it makes them sound important and knowledgable. ;)

NoHiddenFees

04-25-2005, 04:46 PM

I've heard similar arbitrary things about physical milestones and talking, etc.A great part of the expectations placed on children is cultural, and it's amazing how many peer reviewed studies manage to "find" an innate and neurological basis for what conveniently happens to be the cultural norm. I recently read an article about the "proof" that most children couldn't understand place value -- apparently irrespective of how it is taught -- until something like 4th grade. Bollocks. Place value is routinely taught to and understood by 6 and 7 year olds in many (if not most) Asian countries.

allgirls

04-26-2005, 08:58 AM

Brittany Murphy the actress??? Trust me, I've seen interviews with the girl, if she was speaking at 4.5 months it wasn't due to profound giftedness, maybe Williams syndrome.

My thoughts too however early talking is a sign of giftedness but not necessarily proof and some gifted people get real good at hiding it...if that's what it is she is a genius at it :wink

LeftField

04-26-2005, 11:00 AM

My thoughts too however early talking is a sign of giftedness but not necessarily proof and some gifted people get real good at hiding it...if that's what it is she is a genius at it :wink

Is early talking a sign of giftedness though? I thought speech was an unreliable sign. I thought I had read that some early talkers are gifted, but some are not. Some late talkers are gifted, but some are not. Of course, I guess we'd have to define "early" and what actually constitutes talking. Does anyone know?

loraxc

04-26-2005, 11:00 AM

luvmypoonchkie

04-26-2005, 11:51 AM

No Hidden Fees,

Hi, I took a peek at your pictures (your girls are dolls by the way) and noticed the one of your oldest in her martial arts uniform. I was thinking about signing Sam up and was wondering if you wouldn't mind answering a couple of questions.

Eventhough we're going to homeschool we've been debating a great play-based preschool nearby for a couple of days a week (2 hour classes) in the fall. Sam's a great kid and he's very social but I thought it would be nice for him to be able to go somewhere for a change of scenery and to play with other kids without me lurking nearby, KWIM? I'd also like him to be able to practice his listening/following directions skills with someone else for a change to see how he does when the direction is not coming from me. Anyway, I also thought martial arts would be great for this too and it would have the added benefit of being able to get some physical energy out as well as be something new and challenging to learn (which preschool can't offer). There's a great facility just around the corner that does classes for 3 and 4 year olds and we're going to check it out tonight.

Anyway, here's my questions:

-Overall, does your dd enjoy the classes and are they a challenge physically for her and the other 3 year olds?

-Martial arts is supposed to be good for developing a sense of respect as well as good listening skills, have you found this to be the case?

-Have you found any other benefits that you didn't expect?

-Is there anything you don't like about the classes?

This is of course open to anyone who's had their child involved in these type of classes and I'm open to all kinds of feedback.

Thanks so much in advance, I look forward to getting your response!

Jenn

NoHiddenFees

04-26-2005, 01:49 PM

She's only been going a couple weeks, so take this with a grain of salt. :) She's in a twice a week 7 and under homeschool Taekwondo class that's kept fun and non-competetive. So far there's no kids over 5. A friend comes along who is much more competetive and coordinated than DD1 and she is a motivating factor all by herself.

It is definitely physically challenging, but the kids are not pushed to do what they cannot, KWIM? Obviously the older kids are capable of more, and that's not a big deal. I actually prefer the mixed age group because DD1 gets the message that it's OK if someone else can do something you can't, and it's OK to try and fail... jsut like the kid next to you.

We're working more on the active listening than the respect aspect. I don't expect her to say "yes, Mother" all the time, but I explain to DD that when she acknowledges people, it shows she's listening. I do talk actively about respect wrt to bowing (you're entering their house and must obey their rules).

We haven't been going long enough to discover unexpected benefits.

The only thing I'm hesitant about it the "good citizen" reporting. In our family, we don't keep tallies. However, I've decided to let it be DD's book, and DD's record... I'll just help her fill it out. She was also told when her belt was presented that it could be taken away for inappropriate behavior (we're talking something major here... not at a whim), but those are the rules.

allgirls

04-26-2005, 07:12 PM

Is early talking a sign of giftedness though? I thought speech was an unreliable sign. I thought I had read that some early talkers are gifted, but some are not. Some late talkers are gifted, but some are not. Of course, I guess we'd have to define "early" and what actually constitutes talking. Does anyone know?

I think alone it is not a reliable sign however if you have that plus a whole bunch of the other traits then in hindsight you could see it as a possible sign I guess.

allgirls

04-26-2005, 07:16 PM

Did Sears actually give any physical or neurological REASONS for his statement? We all know babies can make noises with intentionality very early on--it just seems silly to say that yes, they can intentionally blow raspberries but not intentionally say "cat."

DD said her first word at 8 months, and added quite a few more soon thereafter. Anyone who tried to tell me that babies can't talk till 12 months would have had me laughing my head off--I think she was saying at least 30 words at 11 months...

I think he basically said they just don't have the brain development for it and also the physical ability. He said if they make a sound that sounds like a word they are just saying a sound and don't really know what it means.

He didn't go into a lot of detail but said he had never seen it in his practice...well if he were my daughter's dr. he wouldn't have seen it...she only now at almost 22 months really talks to anyone other than us. She was very introverted but seems to be getting much more social as she matures.

Foobar

04-28-2005, 01:25 PM

Moo is up to 7 words. They are NOT clear. For example her name comes out clearly,but daddy is "da dee" (not bad). Duck and dog are clear. Mommy or momma is not one of her words. :(
She just turned 10 months and she's been able to understand the words for a while, but it has taken her some time to get her mouth to work with it.

eilonwy

04-29-2005, 09:28 AM

The more I hear that, the more I wonder how many people just aren't listening to babies speak. My babies did, my niece did (not the younger, she barely spoke at all until she was three), my siblings... I have the impression that many other babies do, but their parents or caregivers just don't understand them. I can remember hearing a baby about 9 months old say "gimme the toy!" and wondering why his mother said he couldn't talk. I understood him just fine. :shrug It wasn't the clearest speech I've ever heard, but it was definately English, you know?

Like I said, BooBah doesn't talk nearly as much as her brother did (a younger child thing, perhaps?) but she's got plenty of words which are very clear, and she makes it very obvious that she understands a heck of a lot more than she can say. I still haven't gotten her to sign anything, she's much rather attempt the words. :LOL

Speaking of which, if a baby can't talk, does that mean they can't sign, either? Lots and lots of babies learn to sign before they can say the words out loud, and if you think they don't know that the sign for milk will get them a nursie...:shake :LOL

lifetapestry

04-29-2005, 10:47 AM

My son (who will be 4 in July) didn't say a single word until he was a few months shy of 3-- he said his first word exactly one year ago. He had about 5 months of speech therapy from 2 1/2 to 3, and then just one month of speech therapy when he was 3 1/2-- because his speech therapist determined that his speech was normal. He does fit the "late talker" profile, although his speech development was pretty atypical-- social speech came last. Over the past couple of years, various people (professional and not) have tried to either gently or insistently "diagnose" him as autistic. He certainly could look autistic in a superficial way when he was nonverbal, and he is very socially awkward with his peers-- but it's become increasingly apparent that he's just a bright, geeky little boy with a fantastic memory and the ability to easily understand abstract concepts and apply them.

It does seem from the reading that early talking is almost always correlated with giftedness, but kids who have a normal speech development pattern as well as "late talkers" can also be gifted too. From my experience with my son, I think that language is such a complex skill that we should expect great variability in "normal" development.

Karla

mamamillie

04-29-2005, 04:22 PM

I have the impression that many other babies do, but their parents or caregivers just don't understand them.

I definitely agree w this, Eilonwy. MANY times I hear babies speaking when their parents say that they don't. I feel bad for the children; their mamas say right in front of them "he doesn't talk yet," and he clearly does! That must be so frustrating for those poor children.

Foobar

04-30-2005, 01:20 PM

I want to thank you all again for this thread. It helps me to know that Goo isn't a freak.

She is trying to read more and more and we are just going slowly. She is getting more and more into imaginative play. This is fun.

I also think more kids speak than their parents realize. We also encourage it. I don't think of it as a "advanced" thing, I just think we don't let babies speak. We assume that they can't and so we don't listen or allow it as a possibiity in our brains.

NoHiddenFees, You daughter ACTUALLY SAYS yes,sir? I am so impressed. I've had a morning of "No mommy, I want THIS" instead of helping out. I am getting so burnt on the non-listening of kids. It doesn't help when she can logic things "Goo, Please don't paint your hand." "It's ok Mommy, we have soap and I can just wash my hands later" :eyesroll

To explain to her that it just drives me BATTY to have her paint her hands is hard because it really has no logic to it..Sigh...

eilonwy

04-30-2005, 03:52 PM

NoHiddenFees, You daughter ACTUALLY SAYS yes,sir? I am so impressed. I've had a morning of "No mommy, I want THIS" instead of helping out. I am getting so burnt on the non-listening of kids. It doesn't help when she can logic things "Goo, Please don't paint your hand." "It's ok Mommy, we have soap and I can just wash my hands later" :eyesroll

To explain to her that it just drives me BATTY to have her paint her hands is hard because it really has no logic to it..Sigh...

That's one of the reasons I do TCS. If it doesn't make sense, I don't argue about it. :shrug It helps that my kid's a natural when it comes to questioning authority. :LOL

NoHiddenFees

04-30-2005, 04:32 PM

NoHiddenFees, You daughter ACTUALLY SAYS yes,sir? I am so impressed.Only in Taekwondo class. :) She can't be in the class she's in (as opposed to the 2-3 yo's) if she can't pay attention and say, "Yes, sir." They ask the kids to say, "yes, Mother/Father" at home as well but I told her we don't have that rule in our house. We did pratice for one week at home to help her get used to it for TKD, but she was in on the game. I have always asked her to acknowledge that she hears what I'm saying by looking right in my eyes and answering "yes" or "no" or some other appropriate response IF I ask a question. There are of course times that we can't/don't negotiate, but we don't expect her to unquestioningly obey rules and when possible her "no" is respected, if for no other reason than she knows she has one.

loraxc

05-02-2005, 09:02 AM

I agree that many babies are trying to talk and not being understood. Many of my DD's words were pretty hard to decipher at first, but she used them consistently and in correct context, so we caught on most of the time. However, it took us an embarrassingly long time to figure out "Dee DAH!" which meant "Get down!" We used to just grin loopily at her and repeat back "Dee dah, dee dah" like idiots. :o

Right now she's really starting to string words together, and it's a bit frustrating because I often think she's saying/combining new words, but I can't get a lot of them.

I also just read something about this somewhere--that many babies have "there" mastered early on as a statement of "I did it" or "I acknowledge this object," but most parents miss it. There were some other examples, too.

I'm reading "Genius Denied" right now (I think on someone's recommendation here?) I'm wondering if anyone else who has read it would like to talk about it a little. I feel like it doesn't talk much about social/emotional outcomes for the various acceleration/separation options. I'm also curious what the reaction to this book (and they have another, too, right?) has been in the education community, if anyone knows.

Foobar

05-04-2005, 01:36 PM

Only in Taekwondo class. :) She can't be in the class she's in (as opposed to the 2-3 yo's) if she can't pay attention and say, "Yes, sir." They ask the kids to say, "yes, Mother/Father" at home as well but I told her we don't have that rule in our house. We did pratice for one week at home to help her get used to it for TKD, but she was in on the game. I have always asked her to acknowledge that she hears what I'm saying by looking right in my eyes and answering "yes" or "no" or some other appropriate response IF I ask a question. There are of course times that we can't/don't negotiate, but we don't expect her to unquestioningly obey rules and when possible her "no" is respected, if for no other reason than she knows she has one.

Ok- I was wondering on that! We don't have a yes or no rule in our house and I sometimes wonder how Goo would handle that...

eilonwy

05-04-2005, 05:00 PM

BooBah says "there" just as clear as anything. She also says "I want this/that" clearly enough for other people to understand. :LOL She says "eyes" very clearly, but "pretty" comes out a bit slurry ("you've sa purly eyes! what purly eyes!" which is what everyone says to her). She's very insistant, though, when she decides to talk to non family members, so I think that's why they understand her. She works extra hard at it, because she's accustomed to being understood at home.

We have an eye contact rule; I tell BeanBean that I need him to look me in the eyes so I know that he's listening to me, and I look him in the eyes when he's talking to me. Fair's fair! :) We have to say "look at me" a lot to my niece (the one with Asperger's) because if you don't remind her over and over and over again, she'll look everywhere but at the person she's talking to. It's enough to drive you :nut batty.

I haven't read Genius Denied. :shrug I keep meaning to, but until I can get my library issues settled it's probably not going to happen. :(

loraxc

05-04-2005, 09:45 PM

Hey, did anyone see the Ellen with tiny babies talking? I hear there was an 11-week-old. Just curious.

Foobar

05-05-2005, 10:36 AM

I make Goo look me in the eye if it is important.

You know, like "Don't take your seat belt off" or "It is not ok to slam your sister's head into the floor"

I try not to stress on it because it is clear that it makes her uncomfortable to look into someone's eyes... IS that odd?

Britishmum, I don't know what are the norms on talking. Goo started closer to 15 months...

mamamillie

05-10-2005, 09:13 PM

How old is dd2, Britishmum? My guy is spelling like mad on the computer, but quite upset that he can't write yet. I just keep telling him he will be able to and that he should keep trying, but he gets highly frustrated that he can't control the pencil yet.

Foobar

05-11-2005, 03:01 PM

I got an interesting article from MIL yesterday. It was breaking up gifted children into 5 levels. She wanted to know where we felt Goo fell in this. We decided between levels 2 and 3 and she was sure that Goo was level 4. I have to find the article to post here.

It was interesting because it broke down certain behaviors by certain ages and then discussed the peer issues. The goal of the article was to help parents recognize the level to help them work with their child.

It was funny because I could see Hollis as a level5 child just from the posts here.

BritishMum- If you move to Mass, let me know! I would love to get our girls together!

LeftField

05-11-2005, 07:50 PM

Foobar

05-11-2005, 08:37 PM

That's the Ruf thing, the levels of giftedness.

Yup! The author is Deborah Ruf.

This article was in the Cleveland Jewish News

eilonwy

05-12-2005, 07:44 AM

I remember that article. I don't know where I'd put BeanBean; some of the things Bean did were way earlier than the level five kids, but others were definately later. He didn't quite fit in. :LOL I haven't seen the article since BooBah was new, so I don't know where I'd put her, either. :LOL I guess I'll just call them, "my babies."

Great, he just woke his sister up. I don't know if I should be happy that he wants to play with her or miserable that he no longer seems to have the ability/desire to play by himself...

Foobar

05-12-2005, 09:28 AM

I know I've asked this before, but is there a link between active brains and lack of sleep?

I am so frickin tired. My kids WILL NOT SLEEP!

Goo sleeps 10hours at night, no nap
Moo is sleeping 12 hours (broken) with 1 40 minute nap a day....

UGH......
or is it that my kids just won't sleep!!!!!! :coffee:

lckrause

05-12-2005, 11:02 AM

I know I've asked this before, but is there a link between active brains and lack of sleep?

I really think there is. Hollis only slept 9-10 hours per 24 hour period as a newborn. If he took a nap during the day it was like 20 minutes long. The rest of the time he wanted to be entertained--e.g. have stuff waved in front of his face, be read to, etc. 14 hours a day! It was hellish. I was sooooooo tired until he was able to do some things by himself. Fear not, though, it will end eventually! He still sleeps less than me but at least now he can get up and entertain himself. :LOL

That's the Ruf thing, the levels of giftedness.

Is that the list with the age where they figure out Santa Claus? I've seen that before and it always cracks me up. I guess everyone who doesn't do the Santa thing has genius kids!

Britishmum, that's so cute about the letters with chalk. My kids used to do that all the time! I think chalk and a big piece of driveway is a great way for kids to learn how to write and draw.

Who's moving to Mass?! Maybe we could have a snobby gifted get-together some time. :D

Lisa

Foobar

05-12-2005, 11:10 AM

Britishmum is thinking of moving to Mass.
I am just outside of 128, NW of the city.

I know you are out in Western Mass...

Lyci

05-12-2005, 07:33 PM

Gifted behavior? Normal? 18 mo questions

Ok, I have moved to this forum because I feel really uncomfortable mentioning these things anywhere else for fear of mama's thinking I am bragging. Having a child who is exceeding your expectations can be just as hard as one who is not. Does that make any sense? I don't know who to talk to about ds's language development because all his peers are struggling and he is not. Ds is an active, determined and funny 18 mo. He has been signing since he was about 8-10 months and did gross motor skills "on time" or a little early. He speaks about 60-70 words, is working on saying about 10 others, and signs about 20 words that he hasn't learned to say. His fine motor skills are exceptional and that's where we are running into problems. He can open things we didn't think he was capable of (gates, jars, outlet covers-you name it). He is obsessed with wires, cords, and anything electrical. He chooses a bag of wires and cords over toys any day and really doesn't bother with many toys except his train set and Tinker Toys. He interacts well with us and others so we aren't worried. He initiated peek-a-boo around 6 months, we have an avi video file if you want to see it. Just looking for some support from those who have been through frustrating days with a very bright toddler. Thanks!

PS DH and I were both labeld gifted in elementary school and both had very frustrating experiences with that label and dealing with being different. If, and it's a big if, dh is gifted, we want things to be different for him. Most importantly, we want him to be happy. :happyt:

loraxc

05-13-2005, 09:47 AM

Lyci, your son does sound bright. It's fascinating to me to read about the various ways it manifests. My DD does not have the small motor skill obsession, but I've seen it in other bright children.

I can relate to feeling a little awkward with your mama peers. We are in a playgroup of kids aged about 15 months-2 years, and recently we had a huge discussion via email about verbal skills. Almost every other mom was worried about delayed language (we are a rather academic group). This is not a concern over here (DD is next to me right now saying "Sap beetle, sap beetle"-- :LOL she's really into our insect field guide this week!) I felt a little awkward being totally silent. But there's generally something I can share about. The funny thing about playgroups is that sometimes they seem to be nothing more than a gathering of moms to air worries. But I enjoy the company.

It is a big thing to deal with, thinking about how to manage a gifted child in the school system. We have no plans to homeschool, so we need to think about how she will do in public school and what we should or shouldn't do to advocate for her. Fortunately, we have plenty of time. I started thinking about this about 4 months ago (DD is 16 months) and I already feel more in control and informed. :)

stover

05-13-2005, 03:34 PM

we used the "poo poo fairy", so every time our son used the toilet he got a small token from the "poo poo fairy". he is 5 now and has been using the toilet for 1.5 years and on occasion will ask for a "poo poo fairy" gift.

lckrause

05-13-2005, 07:02 PM

Hey Lyci, welcome to our thread. :) My daughter is/was also a fine and gross motor skills girl. When she was very little (don't recall how old but well before 6 months) I had to put away the baby swing because she figured out how to catch the sides of it and make it stop and/or do a bigger swing. She started walking at 8 months and at 10 months I had to put away the high chair because not only could she climb in and out of it by herself, but she could undo the safety belt latch. She could also climb the bunkbed ladder and when she was 18 months I found her on top of the fridge. :blush I feel your pain, LOL.

If it's any consolation she turned out to be a gifted artist... not prodigiously so but definitely ahead of other kids her age. And she's awesome at doing puzzles. I've watched her do new 100 piece puzzles in 5-10 minutes. She turned 7 in March.

For the outlet covers, there are "blank" covers w/o any holes you can buy to put over the ones that you don't use. I don't know about the ones you do use--guess you'll just have to teach him to stay away. Any jars with bad things you can put up high in a locked cupboard (NOT LOW--Nan figured out those babyproof cupboard locks early).

Here are some suggestions for more toys he might like:

Duplos
Bristle blocks
Yarn/cording and wooden spools (for threading)
Those magnet sets you can build "sculptures" with (if he doesn't put stuff in his mouth)
Plastic letters and numbers

I'm sure other people will have more ideas. My kids are bigger now and I can't remember all the stuff they used when they were little.

eilonwy

05-14-2005, 05:05 PM

Lyci, I've got kids who open things, too. :nod I've found that the only thing to do with Bean was to put things up higher, but BooBah is quite the little climber so that doesn't work as well with her. :LOL

I found a really cheap toy that BeanBean loves-- those lacing shapes you can buy at Wal-Mart. He thinks they're fabulous, especially the star and the octagon, for some reason (I think he likes the colors yellow and red, but he likes purple too and the circle doesn't seem to rate as highly...:shrug). They're a fun fine-motor skills game for that age set. Other than that... well, if you live in a house, I'd recommend putting a lock very high up on your door. :o

Foobar-- BooBah doesn't sleep much, either. :shrug I've read that some gifted children, particularly highly/profoundly gifted children require less sleep than average kids, but some require a lot more. It actually makes a lot of sense to me-- highly/profoundly gifted kids tend to use more parts of their brain to do things, their brains are actually busier than those of average children. Some kids will require more rest because their brains are firing along at an accelerated rate, but some kids won't because their brains are set up to move *everything* along more quickly.

I do have a theory though, that I've always wondered about. I, personally, have always required very little sleep (except when I'm pregnant-- then all bets are off!) compared to other people my age. I also remember my dreams, and dream in color with other sensory involvment (I can smell and taste in my dreams). I've always wondered if the two weren't related somehow, because I've found that when I sleep more I remember less detail about my dreams. Sounds strange, I know, but I'm very curious about it. Ah, who am I kidding, I'm curious about *everything*. :LOL

BeanBean is much happier playing outside than he is being inside doing workbooks. :thumb He only wants to read or do workbooks when it's rainy and gross outside. I'm all in favor of that! :LOL We've been taking a lot of nature walks, he absolutely loves it. I've decided that I'm going to try to read a bedtime story every night, or maybe a few poems (have I mentioned that BeanBean loves poetry?). I don't know if I'll be able to manage it-- it's hard to hold a book and read while you're tandem nursing two acrobats, but I think it'd be a nice thing to do. :nod

Oh! Something amazingly cool happened last week. BeanBean went fishing with his father and grandfather. He had a great time helping reel them in and stuff. Then he saw FIL "dress" the fish. He frowned, looked at Mike and said, "It hurts? It hurts the fish?" Mike explained that yes, it did hurt the fish. He nodded and seemed relieved when the fish stopped moving. Mike's dad tried to tell him that it didn't hurt and Mike said that it did, and he liked the fact that his son had some empathy and didn't want FIL discouraging him. FIL said that he needed not to be empathic if he was going to be a fisherman, but I disagree-- I think it's *more* important that he knows that it's painful for fish to go from being in the stream to being dinner. Mike agreed with me. :thumb It's very important that he learn not to be cruel to animals, just because we're going to eat them for dinner. I just thought that was great, that he was able to understand what was going on. :thumb I was so impressed with my little man!

NoHiddenFees

05-15-2005, 12:00 AM

His fine motor skills are exceptional and that's where we are running into problems. He can open things we didn't think he was capable of (gates, jars, outlet covers-you name it). He is obsessed with wires, cords, and anything electrical.One great suggestion I read somewhere is that as soon as a child with these interests is old enough, give them real things to take apart. Go to the Goodwill and buy old irons, toasters, phones, mechanical tools and other things with small motors, etc. We've already started a small collection for DD1 this summer... we'll see if she's interested.

DD2 is almost walking (yay!). She's started to take 2 and 3 steps unaided; those chubby legs make her rather reminiscent of the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man. But she is so incredibly cranky. I don't remember DD1 getting like this at physical milestones, though that may be sleep deprivation talking. I haven't noticed anything atypical about DD2, but people are always commenting about her attention span, alertness, her intent gaze, or similar. Maybe there's something there I didn't pick up on. My only real experience with babies has been with DD1, and aside from attention span, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary about her until after a year.

As far as sleep, DD1 dropped naps completely at 2, but she does sleep well at night and is VERY cranky if she gets less than 10 hours. Usually, she sleeps about 12. She was really pushing bedtime for awhile; singing and telling stories to her friends for a couple hours after lights out. I don't have a problem with this except that she became a bear to live with. About two months ago, we negotiated a later lights out (by 1/2 hour) for her to read to herself on the condition that she not make a peep afterwards. We drew up and signed an official contract and haven't had a problem since.

meemee

05-15-2005, 02:05 AM

this is my first post on this thread. and i need ur help. does anyone have a reverse hider? my dd is 2.75 years old and i am a single mom with an active daddy. today my dd stunned me by adding and subracting. i have never ever done any of that with her. but she correctly subtracted and added the pieces of cheese my friend gave her at playgroup. then in the evening she got on a friend's tricycle and pedalled as if she has been doing that all her life - when hers is gathering dust which she never wants me to get out. when i told her dad about the incident he said she has been doing this for a long time now.

my dd doesnt like me questioning her - and i have tried what i feel everything. humour, wrong answers, acting i dont know. she has always been a poetry fan and she i guess picked up her alphabets from dr seuss's ABC book. the only way i knew is from her to pointing to shop signs and saying the alphabets at 18 months. yet if i ask her seh will purposely answer wrong or ignore my question. she is in a playbased preschool and i know they do a lot but dont really do numbers and alphabets with her yet. they do the numbers 1-10 but not counting or subtracting.

i usually dont stress on any academics at all. its not important right now. she can easily pick that up when she goes to school. yet she does to pick up things from around her. i do introduce the concepts (do u want to wear ur orange shirt or red shirt - for colour, or at a park restroom 'see that is a blue triangle - daddy can take u in that, mommy can only take u into the circle one, fractions thru pbj sandwich) and she prefers to pick it up that way. she loves books, and only will pay attention about alphabets, words if she asks. if i ask her to say or point she wont.

yet i would really like to learn about what goes on in her head. be the first to know how much she knows. the other day a mom at her preschool came and asked me if i knew she was trying to read. even her teachers dont know that. apparently the mom comes in with her dd and school going son and the dd loves reading the charts (saying aloud each alphabet and trying to sound it out) and my dd joins in and tries to sound out the words along with them. i had no clue she tried that.

honestly these are not the things that make me suspect she is gifted. she has the genes - all her fathers family is gifted. but more the kind of questions she asks. why does the ballon from the store fly away but the ones mommy blows dont. if there are dark clouds where is the rain? her complicated plot of adventure stories of a family of butterflies that we've been talking about since seh was about 18 months old.

does anyone have any suggestions of me finding out what she knows?

lckrause

05-15-2005, 11:41 AM

Not all kids are show offs about their talents. Some quietly assimilate knowledge and only bring it out when they need or want to. I am now going to piss people off with a sweeping generalization. In general, I would say that gifted girls are far more likely to "hide" (or at least not show) what they know than are gifted boys. This seems to be true from what I've read on gifted boards and just from what I've observed in my own two kids. I know my son blabs on and on about the stuff he knows, wanting to share it with people, whereas my daughter sees no use in talking about it if it doesn't have a practical, of-the-moment application.

If you want to encourage your daughter to "show" what she knows, maybe you could get her some workbooks or learning software or other activities such as plastic letters and numbers and see if she enjoys them. If she doesn't, don't push it, but some gifted kids really get into those. It does sound like she's showing what she knows, just not necessarily around you. Maybe she senses your anxiousness to find out. Kids can be contrary that way.

Good luck with your daughter, and welcome to the thread. :)

NoHiddenFees

05-15-2005, 11:46 AM

Welcome meemee. :)

my dd doesnt like me questioning her - and i have tried what i feel everything. humour, wrong answers, acting i dont know. she has always been a poetry fan and she i guess picked up her alphabets from dr seuss's ABC book. the only way i knew is from her to pointing to shop signs and saying the alphabets at 18 months. yet if i ask her seh will purposely answer wrong or ignore my question.

[snip]

does anyone have any suggestions of me finding out what she knows?

My advice would be to stop trying completely and just listen and let her lead. It's possible that she feels pressured, especially if there are other family members she's more open with about her abilities. It's amazing the stuff that comes bubbling up incidentally and in imaginative play, like her pointing out the letters in signs.

loraxc

05-15-2005, 06:13 PM

Lyci

05-15-2005, 09:14 PM

Thanks for the ideas for ds and his "machine" obsession. We can't vacuum with him in the house unless we have time for him to spend 1 hour investigating the inner workings of it. My mom found a toy vacuum at a garage sale but ds is more interested in taking the batteries in and out then playing with it. I like the idea about taking things apart, I'll have to find him his own tools though, he would be totally into that.

As far as sleep in concerned, ds has NEVER slept well, not since day 1. (He was really active in utero too). He sleeps for about 4-5 hours at night, the longest stretch, and then is often up 2 to 3 more times, and that's if we are lucky. He is napping better, but I really don't think he needs as much sleep as others. (Or as much as mama!) Yikes. :blush

I noticed something this weekend...ds says different words with dh than with me. He never has said "green" to me but dh told him to put on green boots and he said "green". He has also picked out colors for dh but not for me. He also makes more of an effort to say words more clearly with dh, maybe because dh doesn't understand him as well?

Ok, one last cute thing :) I told ds it was too windy for sailing today (he loves boats) and ds looked at me and said, "Kite?" So we went kite flying instead.

catgirl

05-16-2005, 01:17 PM

Britishmum is thinking of moving to Mass.
I am just outside of 128, NW of the city.

So am I!!! Do I know you from any of the local lists? - pm me if you like...

Foobar

05-17-2005, 10:05 AM

I just have to share this from Mother's Day.....

Dr. Foo let me sleep in and when I got up Goo had made a card for Moo. I asked her what it said and she told me "It says To Moo, You are my best friend. Love Goo" (insert real names instead of Goo and Moo)

Isn't that great!

Sleep issues continue here. We had a LONG discussion with Goo about how screaming when she wakes at night upsets the whole family. I use my hand to describe how the family works together. I tell her that each person is a finger and when they don't work together nothing can happen.

She has figured it out, so now she comes into our room and tugs at me "mommy I can't sleep!" :eyesroll

Oh well.....

As for direct questioning: Goo will sometimes pull the "I don't know the right answer" trick if you push her. She hates when people do it to her so she plays with them.... She doesn't do it for me, but then again I don't push her on that.

Queen of Cups

05-17-2005, 04:12 PM

Hi, everyone! Its been quite awhile since I popped in on this thread - I'm glad its still going!

DS is almost one year and just constantly amazes me... He's got a decent vocabulary - 8-10 words plus a few more signs. He started walking at 10.5 months, and has now figured out how to pop open the lock on the back screen door. Eek! When he figured that out last week, he crawled out into a rainstorm. I found him happily crawling around on the deck in the rain. I told my mom about it and she sternly said, "You HAVE to start treating him like a gifted child! He can figure things out." She's right... He's been stacking blocks lately and can stack 3-4 before they tip over. He's also suddenly able (willing?) to follow directions, which is so cool - knowing that he totally understands what I'm saying and can act on it. This morning while eating breakfast he kept pointing to pictures on his placemat and waiting for me to tell him the name of each object - its a Sesame St mat with a different object for each letter of the alphabet.

I'm expecting another baby in November, and I'm hoping that DS will adjust well to that. He LOVES other kids and babies, so I hope he'll mostly be excited.

And about sleep - Killy sleeps okay, but not as much as I'd like! About 10 hours a night with a 2-3 hour nap on good days...

Foobar

05-18-2005, 09:31 AM

meemee

05-18-2005, 06:37 PM

hi everyone,

thank u for ur views. i have thought long and hard about what u all pointed out could be the issue. i finally figured out that those things are not important for my dd so she sees no reason to share them with me. but more importantly she does share v enthusiastically (tada see what i can do, mama did u see that, did u see i could do that) what is important for her. like her physical accomplishments, her discoveries (look mama the rock sinks but the petals float), and blow by blow account of how she took things apart. i realised by questioning her i was turning into the NCLB test - something i totally steer away from.

lisa, my dd hates anything remotely academic. if u show her a book (which she loves reading) and ask her what that word is which she knows she wont answer. she does not read out of books. but the other day we were at famous footwear and she just stood and read their whole slogan (spelt it out) from the wall. she read it and i listened and then she went on her exploring in a v. matter of factly way and i went on to search for shoes without doing a hooplah or even letting her know i heard her.

i guess it is good she shows her talent to someone else. in future if she reveals them to her teacher but comes home and tells me what was important for her in school rather than we learnt abc's today i will be v. v. content.

nohiddenfees - yes u r right. she feels pushed v. easily. u r right about what comes up bubbling in imag. play. my fav. is when i discovered she understood the conept of 'nothing' of zero.

loraxc - her expression - thats just it. that's what clues me into what is serious and when she is being silly. all academic things i've discovered by hearing her conversations with others (real or imaginary) - including colour and shapes.

and thank u everyone for the warm welcome.

meemee

05-18-2005, 06:44 PM

Thanks for the ideas for ds and his "machine" obsession. We can't vacuum with him in the house unless we have time for him to spend 1 hour investigating the inner workings of it. My mom found a toy vacuum at a garage sale but ds is more interested in taking the batteries in and out then playing with it. I like the idea about taking things apart, I'll have to find him his own tools though, he would be totally into that.

lyci i just wanted to add a voice of caution here. my dd enjoys that too. she wants to do everything from scratch, which means opening the screws. so i always look at the screws and make sure she will use the thicker philips screwdriver instead of the real pointy ones as her motor skills are not that good yet. her favs have been so far the telephone, manual typewriter, fan and coffee maker. she knows how to use every electrical gaget in our house. she also loves helping with changing tyres. our play house is home depot. she is right now into plumbing and we got explore all the inards safely at home depot.

Destinye

05-18-2005, 07:25 PM

I have also noticed that my DD (16 mo) is resistant to direct questioning about what she knows. I know she knows colors, because she identifies them herself all the time. However, if I happen to ASK her what color something is, the answer is virtually always wrong--and she knows it's wrong, judging by her rather amused expression. Also, we know she can count a little (she will carry two sticks around saying "Two, two" and so on) but after a brief period when she counted objects with me, she is now totally silent when I try counting things and leaving pauses for her. It's often the same with shapes, too--she self-identifies them but does not respond correctly to "What shape is this?" (I do wonder if some of this is not understanding the words "shape" or "color"--think about that! Kind of abstract.)

I also noticed this with DD 16 mo (on the 19th) and backed off with a lot of things, (including this thread lol) and just trying to let have her have fun and learn about the world! She knows shapes and some colors/letters and will point them out but if I ask her she looks very bored and won't answer. She likes the Starfall website though and particular letters for some reason (mostly those with alligator and bear noises!) and will ask for those letters. I really have not pushed the issue as I felt she was not ready emotionally.

I figure she is so young she will learn these things soon enough and is absorbing an incredible amount of knowledge, and going through such huge changes as it is, so am just letting it evolve naturally. I do think abstract ideas can be hard though I know DD understands concepts like hot and cold, up and down, which surprised me.

loraxc

05-19-2005, 08:34 AM

Destinye--yeah, totally. :)

I love reading about what other kids are into. Going to Home Depot to check out plumbing! That is cool, and cool that you recognize her interests. It's fascinating to see what they gravitate towards.

I'm curious if your kids followed the "standard" language acquisition patterns (slowly acquiring words till they hit about 50, then a huge language explosion, followed closely by word combining, followed by short sentences). DD hasn't at all. She has hundreds of words which she has acquired very steadily since about 11 months, but until recently just recently used them individually. Now she seems to have sort of skipped the "word combining" stage and gone straight to sentences, though I can't understand them all the time.

Foobar

05-19-2005, 09:03 AM

Wow, I think Moo is showing some signs here too.

She has been having some night waking issues, so a friend suggested that I tell her "no bottles, they are sleeping" at night.

I did this last night at midnight (she wasn't hungry, but wanted one for comfort). I don't want her to rely on food for comfort so I told her "the bottles are sleeping. I am sorry, but we can't wake them until morning" Boy, did she get mad! :irked: She took the paci out of her mouth and flung it across the room. I gave her another and she threw that one too. Then I hugged her and let her know that it was ok, but the bottles were sleeping. She finally accepted that and calmed down. Total awake time, 15 minutes! :thumb

Scary how much she understands. Apparently at daycare yesterday, she was playing ball with one of the providers. The woman had to tend to another child, and Moo got mad and threw a ball into the woman's head! Yikes! :eyesroll

eilonwy

05-20-2005, 09:17 PM

I've been having a very long, bad mommy week. :shake I think I'll go nuts if BeanBean asks me one more question or to "ask me a question, mamma!" :splat :bag:

Answering questions-- BeanBean will answer questions correctly under three and only three circumstances: 1) I am perfectly relaxed and ask as if I don't care about the answer, 2) he's "doing school" (which may or may not involve school books) or 3) someone (a stranger) he's initiated a conversation with is willing to keep talking to him. :LOL He's all about asking and answering, right now, though. "Mamma, is this a 't'? I think it's a 't' for Toyota. Is that a 't'? Mamma, ask me a question, talk to me!" When he says "ask me a question," he usually means that he wants me to repeat the question he asked back to him (which is, when I'm in decent mommy mode, the way I try to deal with his questions).

A few weeks ago, BeanBean went up to a woman in a shoestore who had put her car keys down beside her purse. "Hi, do you drive a Ford? Is that a Ford key?" She jumped and looked down and said, "It is, how did you know?" She was just shocked at him. Apparently, despite his recent growth spurt, he's still "small to be talking like that." :shrug He was telling her all of the shoe brands and talking about cars with her, and she was all excited, telling the clerk that he could read. :rolleyes Um, not really, just a few words and a heck of a lot of logos (though he does recognize the words when they're not in the logo, i.e. "Ford" and "Toyota"). She was very excited, though, and he was happy so I just watched them chat away. :shrug I don't think it hurt him.

BooBahDoo has a few words which are very clear and a few phrases, and a whole bunch of cloudy, quick speech. She walks funny, and she's been doing it long enough now that I'm worried about it. I thought at first that she walked funny because she was new at it, but now that she's proficient I think it's her legs-- she's quite bowlegged. The weird part is that one of her legs seems to be more curved than the other, and she still walks on the outside of that foot occasionally. It's really weird, but she kind of walks with a limp. :shrug I wonder if the more-bent leg isn't shorter than the other, and that's giving her the funny gait. :shrug I don't really know. Maybe I'm paranoid. I know that if I was to call Early Intervention and tell them that I'm concerned about the way my not-quite-11-month-old walks, they would give me funny looks through the phone. :eyesroll I guess I'll have to wait and see if she's still limping in a few months.

Oh! She talks and crawls in her sleep, and occasionally will stand up and walk in her sleep. Eyes totally shut, and she just jabbers and wiggles away. It's totally nuts! Sometimes she just sits up and just screams at the top of her lungs and there's absolutely nothing I can do with her because she's not awake and not really asleep. She won't even nurse then until I can get her to wake up, and sometimes I can't. I'm horrified to think that she might have night terrors. Mike's sister had horrible problems with night terrors growing up, she'd scream at her brother and shake their bunk beds in the middle of the night, or run outside just shrieking at the top of her lungs and be totally out, not remember any of it in the morning. It got so bad that they actually had her on phenobarbitol for several years. :( I totally understand what might drive a parent to that point, and BooBah's not even a year old yet. :shake :bag:

I'm curious if your kids followed the "standard" language acquisition patterns (slowly acquiring words till they hit about 50, then a huge language explosion, followed closely by word combining, followed by short sentences). DD hasn't at all. She has hundreds of words which she has acquired very steadily since about 11 months, but until recently just recently used them individually. Now she seems to have sort of skipped the "word combining" stage and gone straight to sentences, though I can't understand them all the time.

BeanBean started combining words once he had three of them. After that, new words were almost immediately incorporated into phrases that he already had; i.e. "nurszh now," "I love bananas," instead of just "now" or "bananas." I would say that he collected words slowly in the beginning, but I'm not sure if that's accurate or not. By the time he was 18 months old he talked like a preschooler, and by his second birthday he was just blabbing away. He seems to pick up new words, phrases, and concepts at a phenomenal clip these days, but maybe I've just got a skewed perspective on it all. I don't know, I'm feeling totally out of sync with him this week. :bag:

I'm not sure how many words BooBah has right now, but I don't think it's 50. Maybe I'll make a list and count them later tonight. At any rate, she seems to pick them up much more slowly, but once she has them she uses them constantly. She doesn't say anything she doesn't mean, it's like every word that comes out of her mouth has got to be important or she doesn't want to bother with it. :LOL I'm ashamed to say that she doesn't have a set of blocks, so I have no idea whether or not she can stack them. :bag: I do know that she's figured out how to remove individual bits of a pinecone, and that she prefers eating dandelion greens to the regular grass growing in the yard and can differentiate well enough to pick them on her own. :o :shrug She's super cute and lovey, though. :love

I've learned something else about BooBah: if I make sure she has a *big* meal about 1/2 hour before bed, she sleeps a heck of a lot better. That, and if I don't try to keep her under a blanket. It's amazing, BeanBean and BooBah sleep in exactly the same positions or in mirror images of one another every night, but BeanBean refuses to sleep without a blanket no matter how hot he is, and BooBah refuses to sleep under a blanket unless she's *freezing* (and she rarely is-- she's daddy's girl). The one time I can remember her climbing back under the blanket, she was so cold that she shocked me awake. :LOL She still talks or sits up and screams in her sleep, but she doesn't actually wake up to nurse if she's not under something. :shrug

Queen of Cups

05-20-2005, 10:09 PM

Oh! She talks and crawls in her sleep, and occasionally will stand up and walk in her sleep. Eyes totally shut, and she just jabbers and wiggles away. It's totally nuts! Sometimes she just sits up and just screams at the top of her lungs and there's absolutely nothing I can do with her because she's not awake and not really asleep. She won't even nurse then until I can get her to wake up, and sometimes I can't.

and BooBah refuses to sleep under a blanket unless she's *freezing* (and she rarely is-- she's daddy's girl). The one time I can remember her climbing back under the blanket, she was so cold that she shocked me awake. :LOL She still talks or sits up and screams in her sleep, but she doesn't actually wake up to nurse if she's not under something. :shrug

Wow, you could be describing DS. DH says he got my nightmares, because occasionally he'll wake up HYSTERICAL and its almost impossible to wake him up. He also refuses to sleep under a blanket - even when DH and I are freezing and under the covers, he has to sleep on top of them between us. My sister and I occasionally had the "heebie-jeebies" when we were little - especially when we were sick. We'd wake up completely disoriented and hysterical and stay that way for awhile - it was basically hallucinations, or maybe more accurately being technically awake, but still stuck in a bad dream. (It still happens to me, though very occasionally.)

And about language aquisition, DS is so strange... He'll pick up a word and use it constantly for about a week, but then sometimes not use it for a couple weeks and then reincorporate it in to everyday speech. "Mama" was his first word (at about 7 months), and he used it constantly until he learned "Dada" a few weeks later and has only recently started using Mama regularly again - it was a last-resort-I'm-really-really-really-upset word for a long time. Thinking about it, DS's vocab right now is: mama, dada, duck, hi, banana, nana (nursing), auntie, thank you, done (as in "all done"), Bert (from his Sesame Street placemat), and he tries to say grandpa but that seems to be a tough word for him. No word combining yet, unless you count "Hi, dada!" Well, DH and I also think he says, "I love you" but he says it so quickly that we're not positive.

TiredX2

05-21-2005, 11:36 AM

If anyone has a child in a "Gifted/Highly Capable/Whatever you want to call it" school I'd really appreciate some input on this thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=290045

I am having such a hard time deciding. The test results came back and DD has a place in the Full-Time Highly Capable Program in the 2nd grade. We're not sure if we want to take it, put her in just one day a week in the supplimental program (we homeschool), see if we can put her in the 1st grade instead (she turned 6 in January)--- which they are resistant to based on her test scores: she qualified for 2nd grade and "they" think she should at least start there.

Have I mentioned that I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO?!?!?

Thanks

lckrause

05-21-2005, 06:28 PM

Just my opinion, but I would do the one day a week thing if possible. I guess it depends on your reasons for homeschooling. Even if I had access to the best gifted school in the whole world, I wouldn't send my kids there full time, because of our other reasons for homeschooling. But if your reasons for homeschooling are mainly academic, the gifted school might be a good choice, assuming it fits your child well.

I don't see the big deal about her being in second grade at 6... lots of kids started it at 6 (and turned 7 during the fall/winter) when I went to school. I'm sure she could handle it academically. Does she have any social issues that make you think grade 2 would be a bad fit?

TiredX2

05-21-2005, 06:35 PM

I don't see the big deal about her being in second grade at 6... lots of kids started it at 6 (and turned 7 during the fall/winter) when I went to school. I'm sure she could handle it academically. Does she have any social issues that make you think grade 2 would be a bad fit?

The first year it wouldn't be a big deal at all. She would be in the 1st/2nd grade split so right in the middle of the age range. The next year could be a bigger issue (with her being 7 in a group of 8-10 year olds).

eilonwy

05-22-2005, 08:19 AM

Dd - Hmmmmm. But did God even invent George Bush?

Me (stifling giggles) - Well, yes, because God created everything.

dd - But why did he invent George Bush?

:LOL :LOL :LOL

:laugh: That's hilarious!! :laugh: I ask myself the same question....

Tired-- I was a young student, and quite frankly it wasn't a big deal. :shrug The only time I can remember being upset about it was in Kindergarten; the teacher made a big deal about birthdays and I noticed right away that the kids were all turning six before I turned five. The next youngest child in my class turned six three weeks before my fifth birthday, and in my little head three weeks was *forever*. I came home and demanded that my mother change my birthday. :LOL I said, "the last kid in my class who was five turned six on Saturday, and I'm still not five. You have to fix that!" She just kept saying over and over again that I'd turn five soon, but I just had to wait it couldn't be helped. I was irritated, but the people we were staying with made a great party for me on my birthday and I felt a heck of a lot better about it all. :LOL

I had a friend in school who's birthday wasn't until March because she skipped kindergarten. She's in veterinary school right now, I think, because she changed her mind about what she wanted to do (she's got a masters in neural chemistry). It's all good. The fact is, as you get older the age difference means less and less, until you get to college and there are kids who are younger than you are and adults who've got grown children and are going back to school and you realize that you only thought the age thing was important in elementary school because the teachers and your parents made a big fuss about it. :eyesroll

As far as socialization goes, I personally had huge issues with it but that had much more to do with my personality than my age. In fact, in retrospect I think that if I'd been in a class of even older children, I'd have had an easier time of it. Looking at the research, I was a prime candidate for grade skipping. I think I'd have been much more comfortable in a class of fourth graders at 4.5 than I was with the older kindergarten class. But I digress.

I'm with lckrause: it really depends on your reasons for homeschooling. If I could afford it and my kids got a place at a "gifted" school, I'd probably consider it, especially for BeanBean. He's an almost overbearingly social child. While I don't see school as the ideal social environment, for him any opportunity to meet more people is and will be a great thing. I'd probably put him in for three days a week initially and take it from there. My reasons for homeschooling are varied, but having challenging work is one of the big ones. If there's a school that can provide that and be a social outlet for BeanBean, I'm all in favor of it. :thumb

NoHiddenFees

05-22-2005, 10:15 AM

dd - But why did he invent George Bush? :LOL Why indeed?

Last summer DD1 made an animal parade of all her HABA figures. Along one side she set up a row of trees and shrubs. A guest asked her what kinds of trees they were and she answered, using her sweetest voice, "A peach tree, and apple tree, [a couple more things], and that jackass bush. I was very pregnant at the time and actually hurt myself laughing.

TiredX2

05-22-2005, 12:19 PM

Socially I think there are ages when it's not a big deal, but when you hit puberty, I think it is much more of an issue. JMO, but it's not something I would do, especially if you have a good thing going at home anyway.

I am assuming that my kids won't be in traditional school during/after puberty. This would be simply a 2nd-5th or 6th grade thing for us.

Tired-- I was a young student, and quite frankly it wasn't a big deal. The only time I can remember being upset about it was in Kindergarten; the teacher made a big deal about birthdays and I noticed right away that the kids were all turning six before I turned five. The next youngest child in my class turned six three weeks before my fifth birthday, and in my little head three weeks was *forever*. I came home and demanded that my mother change my birthday.

Do you mean that you were put in kinder as an early 4? So all the other kids turned six before you turned 5? Thats funny because I have gotten a lot of comments about "Is DS going to kinder next year?" because he is right about that level (though not that size!!!). But his b-day is Aug 31st, so he will actually turn 4 the week school starts. I would definately not put him in traditional school, but DD goes to a supplimental homeschool program (where she takes many of her classes) and he could go if I tested him in. But, I think we're going to go ahead and wait until he is a very young 5 instead. I :love my time with just DS while DD is in her class!

TiredX2

05-22-2005, 12:45 PM

Oh, I just wanted to add:

If I could afford it and my kids got a place at a "gifted" school, I'd probably consider it, especially for BeanBean.

It is actually a program through the public schools. It is a fairly large school district (24-25 schools averaging 4-600 students per school) and they simply have small magnet schools. If I had the $ I would be drawn more toward a Democratic/Child-Led school.

Queen of Cups

05-22-2005, 05:42 PM

I started kindergarten when I was 4 and didn't turn 5 until the middle of November. It never bothered me at all until my junior year of high school - all my friends had their driver's licence before I was old enough to get my learner's permit. That was a huge bummer! But I never had any socialization problems or anything.

I had wonderful experiences in the public school gifted programs. I was in pull-out programs (met once a week or once a month, being pulled from regular class into a gifted class) from third grade through 7th grade, nothing much in 8th-9th grade, summer after 10th grade I went to a specialized camp for gifted kids, and 11th-12th grade did a half-day specialized school that pulled gifted students from all the surrounding schools. DH also had wonderful experiences in public school in the gifted program - we actually met at the specialized high school.

eilonwy

05-23-2005, 09:20 AM

:LOL Why indeed?

Last summer DD1 made an animal parade of all her HABA figures. Along one side she set up a row of trees and shrubs. A guest asked her what kinds of trees they were and she answered, using her sweetest voice, "A peach tree, and apple tree, [a couple more things], and that jackass bush. I was very pregnant at the time and actually hurt myself laughing.

:laugh: We had to work so hard to watch our mouths around BeanBean, because the ILs are hyperconservatives. As it is, he saw Bush on TV once down there and said, "it's that moron, mamma!" Luckily MIL was in the kitchen and FIL was taking a nap. :LOL

Tired-- I was a late four when I started kindergarten. There was a morning class for the "younger" kids and an afternoon class for the "older" kids (the idea being that younger kids might still need a nap in the afternoon). The district I was in had a cut off date of September 30th, which meant that my brother made the cut but I didn't. We'd have been in the same class, and my mother didn't want that so she had me tested. There were about a dozen other kids tested that year; four of them "passed" and were put into the younger kindergarten with the other five year olds. I was put into the older kindergarten, with all the kids who hadn't made the cut off date the previous year and whose parents had held them back for whatever reason. Most of them turned six in September, one or two were six at the beginning of the year. I turned five in October. My mother tells me that they wanted to put me in first grade, but she wouldn't allow it.

In second grade, I started attending a teensy weensy little private school where I pretty much had my own curriculum. I was given a sixth grade spelling book, no reading book at all (because I knew how to read), a fourth grade math book and, after one month of playing catch-up, my own fifth grade Hebrew class. Over the following summer, my mom tutored a high school kid in algebra and my brother and I learned it along with him. I had a few really good years in terms of education, but I remember a lot of wasted time waiting for kids to catch up. Despite the fact that there were never more than three kids in my grade and eleven in my class, I did an awful lot of waiting. :irked: The wasted time is something else that really ticks me off about school. I don't think that most parents realize how little time in school is actually spent doing school work, especially for a child who can finish "an hour" of work in two or three minutes. I can remember just wandering around the classroom for hours on end, looking out the window because I'd finished my book and hadn't had room in my backpack for another. It was around the end of third grade that I decided that longer books were the way to go, and that Star Trek novels simply weren't long enough; I started reading anthologies. :LOL Boy, did I get some funny looks for that.

I definately hope to avoid wasting so much time with my own kids. I've heard people say that if I was really so smart, I'd have found something to do in school. They don't really get it; I did everything that there was to be done, and didn't want to play games-- I wanted, needed to learn something new and there just wasn't anything for me to do. I was in the oldest class in my school, so I couldn't wander down the hall to find some older kids. I'd already gone above and beyond what they had to offer me. I never want my kids to feel like they ought to be learning something but they don't have the opportunity to do so. :shake If they finish everything I can throw at them, I will *find* something else for them to do. I'm not sure what I'll do if they don't prove to have the same voracious appetites for the written word that I do, but I'll think of something. Where there's a will, there's a way, and boy have I ever got the will!

It's very cool that your public school system has a special place for gifted kids. When I got back into public school for seventh grade, I was put into the top class, and given all kinds of extras but they weren't really enough. :shrug For example: the class I was in took pre-algebra in seventh grade. Three other girls were in an algebra I class with me. It was all well and good, but I got a B in that class despite the fact that I only turned in homework once every other week or so. I loved the teacher, she was great, but the work just moved too slowly, and the class consisted entirely of material that I'd covered when I was 7, in the summer before third grade. :shrug I was bored and remained bored throughout the year. I joined the chess club, and participated in OM and PJAS and Speech & Debate, and I was still bored. I spent a lot of time reading novels in class, and I was late for school more often than not. I just didn't want to be bothered. The whole thing felt like a waste of time. I'd have been happier in the library for those eight hours every day, and I'd probably have learned more.

I gave up doing homework entirely in eighth grade, doing only assignments which I found interesting. In general, these involved research which was (still is) one of my favorite things to do. I wrote my quasicrystal paper in eighth grade, and several essays for civics class. I missed a lot of school being sick and participating in "extra" activities-- that year I won several awards for "school projects" despite spending more time out of classes than in. I had a lot of fun that year, but that just reinforced the lesson that school is a waste of time-- all of the good stuff happened outside of class. :shrug My teachers didn't know what to do with me, and I must have heard the "you have so much potential..." speech a hundred times that year. My English teacher told me that she was hurt by my refusal to do her assignments (I managed not to laugh until I was out of earshot, but it was difficult), my math teacher was oblivious and gave me a B because "she's always so quiet during class and she does well on her tests," and my science teacher (who was also my homeroom teacher) just didn't get me at all. I'd ask questions in class that would make his hair stand on end, and help other students to get A's and then turn around and not hand in assignments. "They're so easy for you, why can't you turn them in?" :shake But I really couldn't-- how could I possibly focus on the differences between different kinds of rocks when there were much more interesting things going on just a few blocks away in books at the library? I mean, the rocks were interesting for a little while, but I finished reading the textbook about two weeks into the school year and after that I just didn't want to be bothered filling in the blanks on stupid homework assignments. :shrug

Recently, I've learned that this phenomenon has actually been documented; far from being alone in this, I was just like hundreds if not thousands of other kids of similar ability all over the country. I was so relieved when I read about it, because it proved to me that I was right all along. I didn't fail schools, they failed me. I can do better for my own kids, by making sure that they've got something interesting to do. They don't have to wait until they're 15 to get to an interesting class with new subject material-- *everything* can be new before then. :thumb They'll be busy when they need to be busy, and be left alone when they don't. I'm dead set on making things better for them, so they won't go to school; instead, they'll stay home and get educations.