Siblings, toys and sharing

[oceanbaby]

My youngest just turned 1yo, and this is starting to become an issue. I'm not really sure exactly how to handle it, and would love to hear some other ideas.

Ds1 loves to build things - train tracks, block towers, lincoln logs, etc. And of course ds2 always wants to be involved in what he's doing. But because ds2 will knock it down or break it, I try to keep him away while ds1 is building. This in itself is difficult because it is very hard to keep ds2 away from it, to the point of him getting really upset. I can give him identical toys but he wants to be involved in what his big brother is doing. But I don't feel like it's fair to let him ruin what ds1 is trying to build. Then the "rule" is that if it is left on the floor after ds1 is done (like a train track), then it is fair game for ds2 to play with.

But besides things that can be broken or knocked over, every time ds2 tries to come up and play with the toy ds1 is playing with, ds1 starts in "Noooooo, Mommy, come get ds2!" I don't want to force sharing, but at some point they need to learn to play together a little bit. I can't spend my entire day separating them. I want them to learn to share a toy, cooperative play, take turns, etc.

And when does a toy belong to one child over another? Technically every toy we had before ds2 was born would be considered ds1's toy, which is not realistic. Does who a toy "belong" to factor into how it needs to be shared? What about toys received for a birthday? Ds2 got some toys for his birthday that ds1 was playing with. Ds2 toddles over and wanted to play, and ds1 started in on his "noooo, I'm playing with this." What lines do you draw about which toys "belong" to a certain child?

Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for feedback as to how you handle these situations in general.

[Leilalu]

:lurk:

Good question!We are in the same boat here. Sometimes dc are good at listening, but it is a constant thing of having to remind and instill it in them. And even then, the toddler property laws come into effect:eyesroll.http://www.kellymom.com/writings/children/property.html ;)

[TinkerBelle]

My youngest just turned 1yo, and this is starting to become an issue. I'm not really sure exactly how to handle it, and would love to hear some other ideas.

Ds1 loves to build things - train tracks, block towers, lincoln logs, etc. And of course ds2 always wants to be involved in what he's doing. But because ds2 will knock it down or break it, I try to keep him away while ds1 is building. This in itself is difficult because it is very hard to keep ds2 away from it, to the point of him getting really upset. I can give him identical toys but he wants to be involved in what his big brother is doing. But I don't feel like it's fair to let him ruin what ds1 is trying to build. Then the "rule" is that if it is left on the floor after ds1 is done (like a train track), then it is fair game for ds2 to play with.

But besides things that can be broken or knocked over, every time ds2 tries to come up and play with the toy ds1 is playing with, ds1 starts in "Noooooo, Mommy, come get ds2!" I don't want to force sharing, but at some point they need to learn to play together a little bit. I can't spend my entire day separating them. I want them to learn to share a toy, cooperative play, take turns, etc.

And when does a toy belong to one child over another? Technically every toy we had before ds2 was born would be considered ds1's toy, which is not realistic. Does who a toy "belong" to factor into how it needs to be shared? What about toys received for a birthday? Ds2 got some toys for his birthday that ds1 was playing with. Ds2 toddles over and wanted to play, and ds1 started in on his "noooo, I'm playing with this." What lines do you draw about which toys "belong" to a certain child?

Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for feedback as to how you handle these situations in general.



I don't know how you should divide the toys, but I do know that while sharing is a thing all kids need to learn to do, I also think people have a right to do their own thing and not always share everything at all times.

Besides, kids that young do not understand the concept of sharing, IMO. Yes, start introducing it of course, but they won't "get it" until they are a bit older. Your kids are a bit young to really "play together" in harmony. My 7 and 6 yr old are just NOW playing decently together. And it was NOT for lack of trying to teach them, either.

Kids also need to learn to respect other's rights and property, too.

[Earth Angel]

Hi!

I don't have any amazing answers to your question...but I am in the same boat (have a 4 1/2 yo and a 14 mo old). The toys are the toys...nothing is specifically anyones. The one rule that we had that worked really well for DS#2's first birthday was that on child's birthday they get to play with the new toy as much and whenever they want (aside from actually ripping it out of brother's hand)...but just on that day. worked very well for Ds#2's b-day but we've probably dug a nice hole for ourselves for Ds #1's b-day as i don't think the rule will go over too well with Ds#2.....but to me it goes right along with the specialness of birthdays
I don't try to separate the kids as in our house that is not a realistic situation. Ds#1 does have nap time and after Ds#2 goes to bed to play alone. He has also taken to putting the toys he feels are special that day up where Ds#2 can't reach (up on his bookcase...his upper bunk bed etc). I'm fine with that...there is plenty to play with. I feel bad that Ds#1 is so vigilant about his things sometimes.....but at the same time i don't have the energy or the space to keep things separate. I also feel badly that Ds#2 has never had that play time where no one is bugging him to do this that or the other thing or to trade toys (this has worked well also for Ds#1....he learned early on how to distract Ds#2 with a toys and do the switch just like mom and dad :p ) but again....such is life right now in our family.
The boys play together fine. Most days they have a blast together...with a few "mom...he's taking this" moments in between. I do feel like they "get" sharing to some extent...they don't do it all the time and they do play spearately a lot of the time...but at the same time they are OK being at the same table and using art supplies, or playing with trucks together etc.
I think the building trains, playing elaborate, set up games is hard right now for Ds#1 as Destructor (Ds#2's nickname) often comes in....but Ds#1 does find the time to work in that type of play...and now that Ds#2 is getting a bit older he is playing these games as well instead of just trashing whatever Ds#1 built.
The whole thing is really difficult, especially for me being an only child myself....I guess Dh and I have just decided that although we don't want to force Ds#1 to share he also needs to make room for his little bro in his life and in our home. The situation certainly is not perfect for either of them...but i feel that it is teaching both boys valueable skills (problem solving...conflict resolution) that will benefit them more and more as they get older.


OK...enough rambling.....have fun with your boys!!!! :love

[Patchfire]

Here is my theory... it hasn't really been tested much yet since ds is too little to want much more than the occasional rattle!

We're lucky enough to have a separate playroom, so what we do is tell dd that anything that is 'special' and hers should be in her bedroom. We'll tell ds the same thing when he's old enough. Items in the playroom are to be shared. We use the same principle if dd has a playdate.

Even if you don't have separate rooms like this, I think it's fair to offer each child the chance to have something that is just theirs. At the same time, space is limited in the bedrooms more than the playroom, so dd can't declare all toys off limits! :LOL

HTH

[USAmma]

My rules for Abi are:

- your sister is too little to understand sharing. If you have a special thing you don't want her to have, you must keep it out of reach.

- if you want to build something or play with something, you can set it up on the kitchen table or you can set it up on the floor of your room and shut the door. If Nitara is napping in the room, you can set it up in my room and I will keep Nitara out.

- if it's left out and Nitara gets it, she can play with it.

- if she wants it back she must trade, not grab. (Abi is learning some great skills at distraction and trading, as well as patience if after all her efforts Nitara still wants to hang onto it.)


My rule for Nitara is:
- we talk about things that clearly belong to one child or another. Such as "sister's blankie" and "Nitara's blankie" and she's starting to understand and respect that concept. Today she saw a toy that Abi likes a lot and she said, "sister horse" and pointed to it.

I don't want to encourage selfishness, but they share a room, and they each should have some things that belong only to them. However they also need to take care of those things and not leave them lying around if those things mean so much to them.

I just don't have time to play referee. They actually are doing really well. Nitara doesn't grab things that are in Abi's hands. She will just come crying to me and I try to ask Abi to give it up, or I give Nitara another toy. If Abi can't get something from Nitara she rarely grabs it away. If all else fails she just come crying to me about how she tried to trade and it didn't work, and I'll find something else for her to do. Abi is learning that Nitara will eventually drop something and find a new thing to play with, Abi just has to be patient.

[lilyka]

At age 1 you still have a lot of things that fall into the catagory of saftey issues and must be kept away from ds#2 or at least he neds 100% focused supervision while playnig with them.

Other wise we have some toy rules.

Everything is comunal property. Mommy and Daddy share thier stuff with you and you share with Mommy and daddy and each other. They rarely balk at this but when they do I remind that this favorite toy and that favorite ty really are your sisters and so is that and that and that and she doesn't have to share if you don't :) Suddenly sharing sounds more reasonable when it effects them such. They see the benifits of sharing everything. They are each allowed 2 or 3 toys that they don't have to share. they each have thier very special baby. Alot of thier toys were bought as sets (trains, doll house, legos, playmobile) where each recieved equal parts of the set or recieved it as a group so it makes no sense to nitpick over which peice belongs to each person. that wastes play time after all. Some things we even got the baby as initiation to big kid dome. for instance Ava got her own set of thomas trains for the tracks. now they each have an engine and cars. they all play with al of them but if she cries for her shegets her engine. Does that make sense. They each have a correll doll. if only one girl cares to play with them she is welcome to play with any of them but they all know that Madleine has the blonde, Lily has the brunette and Ava has the red head. but the clothes belong to everyone. The only exception we make is stuff bought with thier own money but they rarely spend thier money on toys.

At one I still don't ecpect them to play together to nicely unless the baby is the game. they can play at the table, play with it while baby is sleping or play with it in thier rooms. They also learn early that placating the baby for 1/2 an hour can really buy them a lot of time. play with baby for a few minutes and then then she would get bored adn leave them alone. NOw my kids are older and baby is 2 1/2. all three of them play together really nicely. I still have to opffer a lot of supervision to Ava and help her to play nicely and socially without making amenece out of herself but that is my job. so much of her play at this point is directed and supervised. But the pay off is that she will more quickly learn to enjoy sharing and be more easily able to negotiate her place inthe game. but those are skills that take a lot of guidence, coaching and teaching.

[dharmamama]

Except for a few very special toys (like stuffed animals) that belong to one child exclusively, every toy we own is community property.

Whoever started using it first gets to play with it and doesn't have to share.

Unless it is part of an ongoing activity, like the "store" my daughter set up today, when it is abandoned on the floor, it is community property again.

If a child wants something (or part of something) that the other is using, that child must ask politely and must accept a polite "no" if that's the verdict.

You could always ask ds1 whether he will give ds2 a few of his blocks to use or whatever. But if he's working on something, I think it's reasonable to keep ds2 out of ds1's way, or send ds1 to work on his creation somewhere else.

I think that 4 and 1 are the wrong ages to try to make the kids share. A four year old is just learning to share, and a one year old has no concept that his help or involvement is not wanted, appreciated, or helpful, so I don't think just trying to make them share and play together is the best idea, at least when it comes to building/making things. Three years in age is a huge difference when you are one and four, and four year old shouldn't have to always share just because one year old is always there.

JMHO!

Namaste!

[Monkeypants]

Hi
We do pretty much what USAmma does in terms of dealing with toys in our family. I wanted to add a great technique that has worked really well for us: I have whoever wants the toy ask for the next turn. Then it is up to the child with the toy to give it when they are done with their turn. It is absolutely amazing how well this works. I think it gives the child with the toy a lot of control and makes it easier for them to share without feeling pressure to do so. It can be hard for the other child to wait so I often do a lot of sympathizing- "it's really hard to wait, I know. You are doing a great job waiting, etc." I also remind the one with the toy if they are taking a long turn "Rory is waiting very patiently" or "Rory REALLY wants a turn, she's feeling pretty sad because she wants a turn so badly" and stuff like that. 99% of the time my DD gives up the toy to the other fairly quickly. Even my 18 mo old is beginning to give the next turn when asked. Yes, we still have conflicts, but I really think this makes sharing something they can control and do voluntarily.

[lunamomma]

[QUOTE=USAmma]My rules for Abi are:

- your sister is too little to understand sharing. If you have a special thing you don't want her to have, you must keep it out of reach.

- if you want to build something or play with something, you can set it up on the kitchen table or you can set it up on the floor of your room and shut the door. If Nitara is napping in the room, you can set it up in my room and I will keep Nitara out.

- if it's left out and Nitara gets it, she can play with it.

- if she wants it back she must trade, not grab. (Abi is learning some great skills at distraction and trading, as well as patience if after all her efforts Nitara still wants to hang onto it.)


This sounds just like our house with ds1 ( 4 years) and ds2 16 mo. We are finding that with time there seems to be a rhythm that we are more comfortable with. Great thread!

[beanma]

i'm with USAmma, too.

trade and separate.

dd2 (19mo) is actually pretty receptive if she's asked nicely to trade it's getting dd1 (4) to do the asking nicely and not snatching that's troublesome. i do tell dd1 to put stuff up high on the table if she doesn't want dd2 playing with it or that she can go in their room and shut the door if she wants some privacy (she never wants to do that).

they're getting along pretty well most of the time now as long as i remind on the trade thing...

[faythe]

Most of the toys are sharing toys. Each girl has a drawer to put her own special "not shared" toys in, and they each have their own dolls. Pretty much everything else is shared.

We really haven't had a lot of issues with the 4yo's and the baby (now 13mo). The 4yo's bedroom is gated off for safety reasons like stairs and teeny-tiny doll shoes, so they have a place to play unbothered. They usually choose to play downstairs,though. Toys/books/creations that could be destroyed by the baby are not allowed out while she is up. At first I had mixed feelings about it, but soon realized there were benefits. She naps longer, the restricted toys actually get more play time than before and there is less fighting, screaming and whining all around. We are all happier!

Based on what you're describing I think you do need a separate place for your older dc to play. It may be a table that the younger one can't reach or a separate room. I also think you should set aside some toys that are just his and find a safe place for him to keep them. Everything else is fair game for both of them. In addition, I'd work on teaching the 4yo some things that he can do with his brother, whether it's pushing cars along the floor or building towers just to let his brother knock them over. I don't know about your ds2, but my dd4 loves to chase cars and bring them back, so her older sisters and she will play for 20-30 minutes - they send the cars across the dining room, she brings them back, over and over. Same thing with balls.

In the end, the 1yo isn't just going to get it for a while yet, so it is up to you to keep separating them and teaching them over and over all day long.

For gifts, I'm actually drawing a blank on what we did. I think this year the 4yo's gifts all ended up going upstairs - shoes, clothes, tiny pieces, etc.

I am really against the idea of giving individual gifts that are meant to be shared. Some sharing is inevitable, but it shouldn't be forced. Dh and I help enforce no-sharing boundaries for the first few days. If the sense of ownership doesn't wear off, then that toy goes into their private drawer. It's only happened once or twice so far. When we give Lego's or blocks as a gift, it's for all of them. My parents used to give me and my sibs Lego's, we were allowed to build them once or twice, then had to dump all the pieces in the big share bag. The forced sharing really sucked.

[Earth Angel]

after reading over everyone's posts...which have all been helpful by the way :wink ...it seems that we are all striving for that ever elusive state of balance.....the best place to be but hardest to get to.

For me...I don't want my oldest Ds to feel forced to share...ever...but...I also don't want my youngest to feel that big bro always comes first since he is bigger and can get to the toys first....I want to be so fair and walk in balance when I support both of them...but it is so hard.

The neatest thing happened today though...on his own...oldest Ds took Dh's and my advice finally...to find a space to play by himself if little bro is upsetting him. We have tried to help him to do this before but he always wanted to play near us (which is just fine but also meant, unfortunately for him, that his little bro was always there). He has decided to branch out today (maybe it will last...maybe it won't) and has been very pleased and has been cherishing his own space and time.

[oceanbaby]

Hmmm, I thought I had posted a reply to this awhile ago, but it must have gotten lost.

All the replies here have been very helpful. It makes me realize that we are pretty much on the right track. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't I feel like I must be doing something wrong, but it seems like you are all doing similar things.

Aaah, baby wakes again. I guess I really have to go to bed.