Anyone know what happens if we don't show up for well-baby visits?

[rzberrymom]

Hi Netherlands mamas!

Let me preface this by saying we LOVE LOVE LOVE it here!!

However, we're not too thrilled about the well-baby visits. Every month, we've been bombarded with aggressive, non-AP advice. I've been reprimanded for feeding DD more than once during the night (when she was only 3 months old!), for not having a pram that she can lie down in (we wear her to the appointments, which is how they knew), for not giving her enough tummy time due to the lack of the pram (she started rolling over at 3 months and can sit by herself at 5 months, so we're not worried that she's developmentally stunted), for not giving her all the vitamin supplements they recommend, for not feeding her solids already, etc.

I accept that I moved to a country that requires vaccinations, and so we've been very dutiful about that.

But, now that she doesn't have any more vaccinations until 12 months, does anyone know what happens if we cancel or don't show up for all of these well-baby appointments? Do the laws vary by city (i.e. do I need to ask someone around here)?

I forgot to add that these are the appointments at the district health office where we have no choice who we see.

[Plaid Leopard]

Hello-

I don't live in the Netherlands so I can't really answer your specific questions. However, I recommend that you find out exactly how many well-baby visits are actually mandated and at what age. In France, most parents take their kids to all the WB check-ups, and believe that it is obligatory, but in reality there are only three visits required by law - I can't remember which ones though because we don't actually live in France (DH is French though).

WE took our youngest to several WB checkups here in Germany, but not all - and we haven't been back in a long time. Apparently there could have been problems with insurance payments if we didn't respect the schedule but we had private French insurance so that didn't apply to us.

Hope you find some answers.

[NLgrl]

Sorry to hear your visits went so poorly. You might consider changing to another office. There can be quite a difference between them. We did this, and our second office was pretty AP-friendly. They were happy that we were still bfing and not supplementing, and really liked our cloth diapers and our sling.

At the same time, you don't need to share everything about your parenting style either. I know they are not in favor of co-sleeping, so we didn't necessarily share that info. :wink I don't think these visits are mandatory though. I don't think vaccinations are mandatory either actually.

Good luck!

[rzberrymom]

Plaid Leopard, thanks for letting me know about the requirements in Germany and France--I'll look more into precisely how many visits are required.

NLgrl, hmmm, we were told by our kraamzorg that vaxs are required here, but now your post makes me see that we should have done more research. And I totally agree that we don't need to share about our parenting style--I don't offer info, but DH and I have had a really hard time lying on the spot.

Does anyone else have definite info about the laws here?

Thanks so much!

[simonee]

NOTHING is required! I second the other office thing, it may really make a difference. if you don't go for the checkups, they might harass you ,though. I go to all and bc we don't vax, we only had half the amount (3mos, 6mos, 1yr, 2yrs). You have the right not to vax, and if the cb tells you you must, ask them to show you where. There ARE no laws, and a cb that tells you different is lying.

And yeah, don't volunteer. I say he sleeps fine, gets his nutrients. They tell their story, I nod. Don't let them intimidate you. They don't ask how often he nurses at night. They ask if he nurses at night, I answer 'sometimes" (meaning: every 30 mins to every 4 hours. that's my 'sometimes' kwim?). they ask how often, I say it varies. They ask if he has a bedroom, I say yes. Who cares that it's also mine? When they ask if she gets enough tummy time, you tell them yes. If they ask how much, you say it's not that relevant. If they say something about your sling, tell them that's how babies in YOUR culture grow up happy. Many Dutch really want to project a tolerant image, so you can use that. But it soundslike your office just really sucks, I live in smalltown province and they're fine here. They even asked me if I wanted to sell slings. They are supposed to carry the dang brochures promoting htem! You can also intimidate them right back by saying something about scientific research.

Lemme know if you need more targeted info. I'll start subscribing to these threads. I'm a native speaker and know the system at least well enough to navigate it.

So, where DO you live?????

[rzberrymom]

Thanks simonee! I'm going to try to find another office, since I think you're right that they will probably harrass us if we don't show up. Great suggestions too on how to deal with the questions!

We're in Utrecht--where are you?

[Isthar]

I just moved from Canada to the Nl with my Canadian husband and our 9 month old son. I am born in the NL.
I am totally into natural parenting and I am not going to any well-baby visits and my son is not vaccinated. As far as I know none of these things is mandatory in the NL.
I would love to get in tough with moms in this country who think the same way as I do. I am located in the south, in Roosendaal. Is anybody interested?
I would love to hear from you. By the way, I am 38 years old and my son was born at home in the water in Vancouver.

[ShaZaM]

Yup, yesterday was my first time posting on the forum and now I just can't stop!! Now that I found all these threads that are so interesting, I am addicted.
I am also in the NL- Leiden to be exact- and am completely excited about the possibility of chatting with likeminded people!!
As you already know, the vaccines are not mandatory and at least my GGGD office is pretty relaxed about you wanting to wait. We did all of our vaccines to date with my son, but he is due one in 2 weeks and I think I might wait, though I haven't decided yet. There is loads of research being done at the moment about co-sleeping and sling carrying, so I think it is just a matter of time before it becomes much more popular-lets hope, cuz I love it!!! Until then, it is up to us to be proud of our parenting techniques and shake the foundation of the "normal" conception of parenting. Blah blah blah, sorry...I can go off sometimes.
Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know that I am here and if I can help, let me know!!

[sarahmck]

Hi, I just posted about my consultatie bureau frustations on the other thread. Then I read this one. I was glad to have the advice to try another office. We are moving across town next month, so we will definitely switch to a closer office and hope that that one will be a bit less judgemental.

We haven't vaxed, and I second (or third) the information that they are not mandatory. However, I think that we may have some trouble once our baby is old enough for school. I've actually had less trouble about the vaccinations from them (since our baby isn't going to day care) than I have for co-sleeping/night feeding. I know that the pediatrician there has good intentions (just wants me to get more sleep), but I disagree with her philosophy.

They asked me at our first appointment (we moved here when our baby was 3 months old) what feeding schedule I had her on. I said no schedule, she eats when she wants. She looked at me like I had three heads and said that they recommended an every 4 hours feeding schedule for MY CONVENIENCE. Last I checked, babies weren't made to be convenient. Mine is anything but convenient, and feeding her every 4 hours wouldn't change that.

Until our most recent appointment, it really wasn't that bad. But at the last one, they asked us about vitamin D. We hadn't been giving it to our baby, since she is VERY white and we spend a ton of time outdoors and the weather has been nice enough that she hasn't been too covered up. The nurse looked at us as if we were abusive parents and then said "I'm just noting down that you declined our recommendation, so you won't sue us when your baby has 'X and O legs'" (in other words, is bow-legged or knock-kneed). I wasn't pleased. Now we're giving her some vitamin D, though, because the weather has turned and I haven't been able to find any info to indicate that there are any bad effects.

Don't get me wrong -- in general they're very nice, and they think they're giving good advice. I just think most of it is misguided. I enjoy going there for getting weighed and measured, though. I'm a sucker for seeing her grow on that little graph, especially when she keeps gaining weight right on target despite not having any solids ;)

Enough of my rant. If anyone wants ot organize a little group meet, I'd be totally up for it.

Sarah

[jetty]

Perhaps a bit late reply but we also have antroposofical consultatiebureau in the Netherlands. http://www.antrovista.com/gezondheid/index.php?pag=http://www.antrovista.com/gezondheid/consultatiebureaus.php&zm=http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&hs=xjo&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:nl-nl:official_s&q=antroposofisch+consultatiebureau+utrecht&spell=1
There you can talk about vaccinations and they are relaxed about vitamins etcetera, but you might have to pay a bit for the service depending on your insurance. They take much more time for everything if you want to. It is of course not the same as AP but there a some simularities and they are more open to different views as the regular consultatiebureaux.

greeting Jetty

[rzberrymom]

Just thought I'd try to save someone else the trouble--I would beware of the antroposofical consultatiebureaus too. I switched to one, and they harassed me nearly as much as the regular consultatiebureau. Plus, they cost a FORTUNE--we have OHRA for our insurance, and they won't cover it.

We didn't offer any info and answered their questions as vaguely as possible. They pushed and pushed as to how many times we feed her at night, and I said "oh, when she's hungry." They followed this by telling me that we were ruining DD's emotional health by feeding her more than once a night and by co-sleeping.

That said, they were very flexible about vaccinations and were actually against all the vitamin supplements--a pleasant surprise.

I guess the pressure to conform to the beliefs at the clinic was a little too relentless and anti-AP for us--much more so than even the regular clinic. I was pretty disappointed and also out a lot of money just from one visit. Oh well...

[jetty]

I hear that there are big differences between antroposofical consulatiebureaux.
The one I go to in Amsterdam is very open towards ap and making your own choices but they offer information on childcare and take time for you and are warm and open instead of cold and in a hurry as the regular who came to my house when I had my firstborn. I hope that you can find a good one anyhow or don't go at all, they are not obligatory.

greeting from Jetty