sad Dad hears "I don't like you daddy!"

[aredee]

Hello, I'm the father of a 3.5 YO boy. I'm truly dedicated to the fathering role and I think I'm doing a pretty good job. I work only part-time so I can parent more. But for a while now my son often says things like "I don't like you Dad." Or "Go away, I don't love you." We're not sure why he says this. Has anyone else experienced this? Is this a universal phase? Is this a bit of Oedipus complex? Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

[mamaduck]

Just today my 2 year old told his Dad, "I hate you, Daddy."

We figure that his vocabulary is limited compared to ours, and even what words he has are sometimes diffult to think of right when he needs to. So, he sometimes says extreme things because he can't be more articulate or exact in what he means. He might mean, "I need some space." Or "I don't like what you are doing." But he says what he can instead.

[RachelGS]

My doctorate is in psychology, and as much as I dislike some of the tenets of psychoanalytic theory, the "I hate you" thing is pretty common toward the opposite sex parent in kids this age. Children are beginning to discover not only their own sexuality, but that the world in general is a sexual place. They will try out both parents before it's all over. It certainly doesn't reflect actual hate, or even anything in that ballpark. It usually means something more like, Mommy belongs to me, you're intruding, I'm the one she loves the most-- or vice versa. It stings, but only because we as parents love our children so desperately. It's totally normal, and even a good thing that your child feels secure enough to express the whole range of his experience. Hang in there!

[cumulus]

"If you have never been hated by your children, you have never been a parent." ~ Bette Davis

[jenndr]

Sometimes too, I think kids say things like this so we will reassure them of the opposite. Whenever my daghter says things like "Go away " or "I don't want you" I always remind her of a nicer way to ask me to leave like " It would be nicer if you told me you need some alone time or quiet time right now and I always want you and love you when I'm with you or away".

If she tells me she hates me I always tell her "that's fine and I always love you" We usually talk about why she is angry (unless she wants to be alone) and I tell her I always love her even when I'm angry and it's normal/ok to be angry even at people we love.

When she says things like " I love you better" or "I don't love daddy" I just always remind her how much he loves us and that it's ok to love both of us. You know to remind her that her loving her daddy doesn't take away from her loving me.

I think it's totally normal and shows how much trust and love she has for you that she feels comfortable saying such things. I know that sounds crazy, but I really think it's so true. You're doing great! Try not to fret too much about it.

Jenn

[amymarie]

My almost 3 dd says these sorts of things to her daddy too. I'm glad its kinda normal and nothing to worry about.

[tea olive]

somehow your child has learned these unfortunate phrases and discovered that these words have power. he cannot possibly understand how they hurt you, in that you have years of meanings for these words, he does not.

are there certain situations where he says these things, like either to get what he wants or because he is frustrated? and combined with being hungry or tired? (everyday occurences for most of us.....) i believe prevention of meltdown is key, i have had to learn to look for signs of vapor lock especially with my 4y 3mth ds. i don't believe that there is a gentle way of ending this type of talk immediately, however, in regular moments i would work on a more descriptive and accurate vocabulary, he is old enough to understand pretending different emotions or looking at a book with pictures showing feelings. if he is not terribly upset i would work to get him to say "i don't like it when you _____" as opposed to "i don't like you", it is probably what you are doing or the situation that upsets him, not that he actually dislikes having you as a dad. when my son gets riled up to where there is no solution, i offer to hold him, which he now refuses, and i tell him i will leave him alone and to let me know when he is ready for holding. sometimes they just need some time alone.

i wholeheartedly recommend becky bailey's book easy to love, difficult to discipline.

i dunno if it's just personalities or a male issue but my dh and ds4 have a very verbal relationship, they are both articulate and i have to remind them and myself that sometimes it is just words, everything is fine. maybe my definition of hate is different, but i really believe that hate is learned and acquired, there is no way a child can even begin to understand what hate even means. perhaps there is a disney definition of what hate is that we get numbed to the idea of..... if i were you i would acquire an image such as a cartoon version of your boy squirting bananas at you or invent a substitute phrase to hear in your head like "i don't love your big hairy toes" "i don't like your big purple ears" so that you can stay grounded in the heat of the situation.

there is also the tiny issue of input, the word hate has never come up in this family and now that i've thought about it i will probably treat it as a nonsensical word until i can properly teach it. if my son could see your son he would learn a most delicious and powerful tool to press our buttons! remember use only words you want repeated.:hammer

i also agree that a small child able to verbalize or express any strong feelings is always a COMPLIMENT to you.

[mamma31337]

Actually, I think that this is a great sign of how involved you are in your son's life. You sound like an excellent dad, and I really think that your son is using you to try some stuff out. Most of the moms I know are the primary care providers. We hear this type of stuff all the time. I believe that there are two reasons for this. One, we are always there constantly supporting them, and providing a safe space to try out new language and behavior. Second, we are always there. I have found that my oldest child will use language that I consider hurtful, when he wants to get away with something or he is just plain tired of my presence. My youngest son is starting to do the same thing. Their dad works all day, so when he gets home it is fun time. I noticed that when my husband has been home for long periods of time, they start doing the same thing to him.


You are doing great. Keep it up!


-Natalie:hippie

[dlbarker66]

Hi all,
my six year old son went through a very painful (for me) phase of telling me hated me almost as often as he told me he loved me. It was always in response to my prohibiting him from doing something he wanted (in his mind, needed) to do.

I bought a book that I highly recommend - "It's Not Fair, Jeremy Spencer's Parents Let Him Stay Up All Night!" by Anthony Wolf.

It taught me how to deal with the outbursts of anger. My son was a textbook case and the approach in this book worked like a charm. Today, when Liam gets mad at me (which is still on a daily basis) he is more tempered in his reaction. Usually. Once a week when he does really lose it, he'll come to me within ten minutes with the sweetest apology.

In a nutshell, the trick is to not react. Not to take it personally. Not to yell. I just ask him in my most normal voice to please go to his room so I can be alone. If he refuses, I take myself away from him without any fuss. And once he comes back as his normal, sweet self, I love and cuddle with him as though nothing ever happened. We both feel much better!

[~DreamingOfTheSea~]

I vividly remember telling my father i hated him when I was very young. And i don't know why? He was such a loving, gentle parent. So i guess its a phase some kids go through.

[wombat]

Kids don't always have to like you - in fact if he didn't dislike you sometimes at that age, I'd think you'd never disciplined him. One idea I find helpful to remember is 'discipline makes a child feel safe and secure'. It places limits and boundaries around the child, which though they don't appreciate at the time, allows them to feel safe, secure, cared for and loved. I worked with abused kids and saw kids who never had discipline (in the positive sense) and they actually feel out of control and this is scary for a kid. You're doing the right thing - just don't expect your toddler to understand it yet!

[Betsy]

Tonight, my 3.5 yr old son said to me, "Mommy, I won't like you if you die" Clearly he was saying he didn't want me to die and if he could persuade me not to die, it would be by threatening to "not to like me" He expresses his happiness and sadness in "I like" or I don't like" He and his older sister talk a lot about like and love. He will say, I like you and love you or I don't like you or love you. I always respond by saying I love you no matter what. But it always seems to puzzle him, because like and love is about being happy with someone, not deep emotional connections. They don't understand that. So don't worry dad. Your son loves you even if he hates you.

[Megs Mom]

Betsy, :W

[Betsy]

Wow, I have been a Mothering fan for almost 7 years now, but never connected on the internet till now. I love the discussion lines, live and in detail. There really are more people out there like me! Whew.

And to have two people welcome me in the first few days on line.

I'll be back for a lot more and to add my stories and questions for all of you.



:)

[mamamoo]

Hello i am mammamoos husband, I experiance the " I don't like you and I don't love you anymore" phrases quite often from my dd more than my ds. I dont work, but go to college full time so right now it is kind of difficult for the children to have to listen to me because for most of their lives i worked all the time and my dw stayed home with them, so they are used to "playtime" and "fundad" when i am home wich is not the case now..
so i think that a change in their parenting "routine" playes a big part of the things they say because it is not what thery are used to........

[sarenka]

We have a lot of this I hate you daddy stuff, and it's been really helpful to read these responses. I don't think it is always related to something daddy 'does'. sometimes she picks up on his being tired, stressed, not wanting to be there with her and answer all her demands. Dh is with her as much if not more than I am, and needs more space than he's getting, it can be felt even though he tries to hide it. Also he used to shout at her (although she never responded with 'i hate you' at those actual times) - since he stopped that she has said it less. It also means that she just wants more of me. I also always stress that he loves her, and that i love him. I feel a bit guilty because sometimes i criticise him for eg shouting at her - in front of her :hammer I don't mean just 'don't shout' but a whole lecture!

[simonee]

My dd, now 3.5, has done this since she's been able to talk. It's been very painful for dh at times, though he realizes that it's mostly her way of saying that she wishes she could have the same physical, necessary connection with him as she has with me.

Then, one day we were discussing it, and we both realized that neither of us had ever said this to our own dads. Reason? We would have been afraid to.

Our dd says it because she can. Because she feels free and fearless enough to do so. Her connection with me is more needy, because she nurses and because she's always been in or near my body. So she experiments these things with her dad ~ he's the safest person to try distance on, because he's neither too close to risk rejection with, nor too far to trust.

I think that if your child does this, you're very likely a great dad.

[Cindi]

The great thing about kids is that they can genuinely hate you and then love you in a matter of minutes. That ability to move through emotional states is so tremendous. They also don't know how to display social love, the obligatory kind. I would be thankful for that. When he loves you, it is so true. In fact there may be more truth to his expression than to the people who always say they love you. We all have ways of being repulsive to others at times. His ability to have an overview will grow in time too, and then he'll be able to feel (consciously) the deep consistent love while he is angry at you, or whatever is on the surface. He is just young.

[mirlee]

I noticed when I looked at the dates on this topic that no one had responded since December.


We have a serious situation regarding this topoic.

Last night Sam told his dad that he hated him and to go away. Then he hit him in the head. Dad left the room very upset.


This morning Dad again left very upset. Sam had told him that he hated him again. I didn't know this until this morning, but Sam tells his dad he hates him several times a week! Sam seems to be very serious about not liking his dad who has only shown Sam love and caring. As we were standing in the living room, dad asked Sam if he liked his mommy. Sam looked over at me, grinned and hugged me and said that he loved his mommy. When dad asked what about me, Sam said I hate you. Dad was so visibly crushed. I am very upset about this.
The only thing that really differs between the way we deal with Sam is discipline. I am more of a voice raiser time out person and he is a little more strict. We are having some big issues with discipline lately as well, so this may be related.

Any ideas, Dads? I could really use some advice.

[aredee]

Hi Mirlee,

Assure your dh it's common and it's a phase. I've received a lot of good replies in this thread.
Do you breastfeed? My wife does. She thinks our ds's anger towards me is some sort of Oedipeus-like thing. Quite likely--- he doesn't want to share his #1 with dad. I suspect if you're breastfeeding this situation would be more common.
My son is about a year older than yours and now he's starting to say it less. AND......JUST TODAY I received a big, emotional "I'm sorry dad" about a minute after his outburst, accompanied by a hug. Maybe the phase is winding down: wife thinks he's growing more attached to me and is not so clingy to her.

[mirlee]

Thanks for the response, aredee. Yup, we still breastfeed. It seems to be something Sam isn't willing to give up yet. I hadn't thought of thinking along Freudian lines, but this is definitely a possibility. He shows me boatloads of affection. He has recently decided he wants to kiss me. Sometimes it's my cheeck, or my hand. This morning, he had to kiss my belly. I was still laying in bed and it was slightly exposed. With his dad, he is more likely to want to wrestle and play rough.


I am glad that your son is doing better. I am sure that things will get much better for you. Your news is reassuring to those of us just entering this phase.

[Dov]

Mirlee,

Yeah, it hurts me too, usually in public. I live in a community where SAHD's are regarded with much suspicion so in public when my DS goes into Oedipal mode it feels like reinforcement of the very wrong negative view of SAHD's by our community. I've learned to just never mind when he's doing this. He's only 3 anyway.

One thing that has helped though is that his Mama is very firm with him about letting him know that she's not happy with his epithets (she doesn't us e that word of course, you know what I mean) and that she's on Dad's side no matter what. Of course this is only in extreme cases because mostly we ignore his schtick, knowing it'll pass.

My kids tend to be really rough on Mama because she's not the one that's home and that drives her crazy (and me too). I'm very appreciative of her conscious reminders to me that his "I hate you Daddy" and others don't mean anything right now except, "I'm asserting my identity as a sexual being" as only a 3 yo boy can. I try to do the same for her and it's really been a boost in our sense of couplehood (oddly enough).

Then recently, DS and I were out hiking at the ocean and he jumped onto my leg, threw his head back with a loud howl and told me that I was his bestest friend, and his favorite Daddy. Oh yeah, being Dad is great. :thumb

[mirlee]

Dov, thanks so much for your reply. I have been observing Sam's behavior toward his dad this last week and things are a little better than before. I haven't heard any I hate you's and dad hasn't said anything about hearing them. This, for today especially is a good thing, because Sam is ill and dad is home with him. Last night, Sam insisted that dad be the one to read the bedtime stories. I was the one he didn't like, well, at least until it was time for bed anyway.

I have told Sam that his comments about hating his dad hurt me too. I will have to make sure that I tell him this everytime he says those words.

I am going to keep a good ear out for the I hate you's. I am thinking that it could be discipline related. Dad is a more stern disciplinarian. Not that I'm a whimp, Dad's voice is bigger so he sounds meaner.

[El Casey S]

DS says this everyonce in a while to DH, and I know it hurts - DS tries so hard to be a good father - and he also tries to ignore it - his father would have hit the roof if DH said anything like that . . . so I really like the responses that say DS says that because he may - and it is a good sign. On the other hand - DH & I are much different - I'm more of a lassie faire lets see where the mood takes us and ride with it type person although I am actually strickter on another level and more confident in my parenting and DH is a more controlled person - so I think DS feels he can get away with more from me - feels controlled by DH - and responds with "I hate you!" I also think Oedipus plays a strong role here - I nursed him over 3 years and am a more persistant active snuggler - and he is openly jealous of DH when we kiss.

One thing we've started doing is - when DS says those things I start kissing Papi and saying, "OOoooo but I love Papi!!" And then DS trys to kiss me too, while I'm kissing Papi - and then Papi kisses DS, then it gets to be a fun family game where everyone is in everyone's face at the same time and DS ends up kissing Papi lots and then I slip out and let the two guys "rebond".

edited for corrections

[Megs Mom]

El Casey, I just love your response! I'm going to keep it in mind if we ever fact this.

[whizzie]

Our 3yo has been experimenting with the "i don't love you", "I don't want you" statements. I find that he usually means that he's not into any contact with that parent at that moment. So I ask him "would you like to continue [fill in whatever it was that he was doing when he said it]? Usually followed by a yes. Or he wants to be alone. Sometimes he'll say it when he really prefers the other parent to be with him for whatever it is is going on at that point.
For us it feels like it's a statement of individuality, he's realized that he's a person on his own, with his own needs and feelings, and that he's got a control over what happens. So I try to reword it for him in more appropriate terms, since I feel often that his "I don't love you" comments are more of an inadequate way of expressing himself than anything else. He's trying to say *something* and those are the words that he's got so far.
Since we started doing this, he's been learning how to indicate that he needs to have some time on his own (mama, I don't want you"... meaning "mama, I would really like to play with the train on my own, butt out", he's now saying "mama, I want papa to bring me to bed tonight" ("mama, I don't love you" in response to my "I love you"... meaning that he's not feeling the contact with me that I'm wanting to feel with him). Also, sometimes I just translate the "I don't love you" phrases into "Are you feeling upset about something?", to which he usually just says Yes, and then he tries to fill in whatever it is that he is disappointed about.

Translating the upsetting phrases into different words has really helped him. He now thinks twice, and has even come to understand and use the phrase: "mama, i'm trying to say something but I don't have all the words." And then we can sit down together and figure out which words he is looking for.

Doesn't take away from the pain that it causes to hear the words. All the love and care we put into raising our kids, all the insecurities it touches on to hear those words spoken by our little ones.... but perhaps it helps to know that they do not have the full scope of the meaning that those words have for us. Their vocab is just starting out... where they use the word "hate", they might mean that they are sad about something that you did, or angry, or confused... hate is much more neutral for them than it is for us. Trying to find out what the real message is behind the hurtful phrase is very helpful.

And I totally second the sexuality points that RachelGS makes at the beginning of this thread. :thumb

[Megs Mom]

Whizzie? That's amazing! I really appreciate the stories and the detail, and will keep it in mind for when we need it!

[G-Dawg]

This is Mr. G-Dawg.
My dd is now 4 and went through a phase where she would get frustrated with us. When we refused to give her something she wanted, she would begin to try any method she could think of.

In educational psychology, I learned in these situations children will continue to try anything they can think of to get what they want. They may start by asking nicely, and then move on to more inappropriate responses. Each response falls into a hierarchy according to which one produces the desired result. If children are rewarded, when appropriate, for asking nicely, eventually that will take it's rightful place at the top of the heirarchy. When we cave in to tantrums or insulting language they place that response first because it has produced the most recent result.

After the heat of the moment when she was relaxed, we would sit and talk about how it hurts feelings to say that. Also we help her recognize that it still didn't produce the desired result. That phase was rather short lived. Sometimes when she is tired or hungry, or if she wants something really bad, she may try again, but it is rare.

Most importantly, realize that it has nothing personal to do with you. It is someone new to this world trying to figure out how to get what they want. The fact that they see you as someone who can help meet their needs makes this behavior a backhanded compliment. Hang in there.

[aredee]

Good thoughts, G-Dawg, thanks for your reply.