Addressing the Special Needs of Gifted Children, #6 [Archive] - Page 2

teachma

10-21-2005, 08:16 PM

It's like she has the two extremes - baby and adult, but not the middle.

In another of your posts, you also mentioned something like the fact that your dd either interacts in a youngish, silly way with kids or in too grown-up of a way, to which they can't relate. My ds has traditionally exhibited a similar split in the way he relates to others: usually, he's either in super adult mode, conversing about complex issues with sophisticated vocabulary, or he's being incredibly rude and super-cool, with a major "I don't care attitude" as a defense mechanism (I think) for his anxiety.

With regard to your concern that dd learn to interact more apropriately with chldren closer to her age before kindergarten...I must share this because our two kiddos sound so much alike. My ds rarely had any "normal" peer interactions before kindergarten this September. And, having attended 2 years of preschool and a summer of daycamp, he had plent of opportunities! However, the minute he first stepped foot off the schoolbus, he was somehow able to channel all of his energy toward behaving appropriatelt ALL DAY LONG in school. It has been truly astonishing...so I wouldn't put it past your dd. I mean, my son spent two years chasing kids around on playgrounds, physically blocking them from where they wanted to go, and coming home from school to tell me how "bad" he was. He has been happy and social and following the rules now for 7 weeks. I can't explain it, except that the whole thing is so new and busy- they go to Music, PE, ART, they have Library, computer class, Spanish three times a week. They do all the regular school subjects (to some extent) and I think for the first time, he is interested enough in what's going on at school...I really can't explain it, but it may happen for your dd with much less effort than you expect.

eilonwy

10-21-2005, 08:40 PM

Britishmum, I'm so glad to hear that things are going well. :thumb I don't think you're an overly controlling mamma, I have the sense that you just want the best for your girls, just like the rest of us do. :D I can totally understand being tense about your dd's social life in the future; it's not like there's a ton of reassurance to be had when you talk to gifted adults looking back on their own early school experiences! Honestly, in your position I'd probably worry about the same things. I feel quite lucky to have one of the world's most sociable children in BeanBean. :LOL

The pumpkin thing sounds like something I would have desperately wanted to do but eventually decided against because I didn't deserve to have nice things. I might have tried to get myself to the front of the line, though. :LOL

Rynna, it sounds like BooBah is doing the Hollis thing with regards to reading. Good luck with that!

:LOL Yeah, thanks. :LOL How long did it take you to come to grips with it?! :laugh:

OTMomma

10-22-2005, 11:52 AM

I just started learning about Montissori preschool activities at home, and I am so excited about it I wanted to share! I wish to goodness that someone had tipped me off to this stuff a year ago when my dd was 2, and I had taught her everything I could think of and was at a loss what to do with her as she was constantly seeking stimulation. That said, a lot of the montissori stuff says for ages 3-6, but I think with a gifted child you can start MUCH sooner- maybe you could with any child, I don't know. And it lets you go at the child's pace with stuff I know they didn't "teach at school" until we were WAY more than 6. Anyway, I got these links from lots of lurking and searching in the homeschooling forum and wanted to share them.

http://www.montessorimaterials.org/index.htm This site has lots of printable materials to use with your kids

http://get-me.to/monthome This site had lots of good activities to do, and my child has enjoyed a number of the "practical" activities, that were good for her motor control issues (I was suprised she enjoyed them to be honest)

http://www.michaelolaf.net/1CWhome.html And this site had links to read online books to tell you all about the Montissori theory.

I imagine there may be some better links to explain more about the Montissori theory, but I don't have a better one.

For my kid, I love that the learning style suggests using "self correcting" materials, so she can teach herself- since she doesn't like much instruction. And that it values learning at her pace and what she is interested in, but gives me tons of ideas for what to present and have available to do. Maybe this isn't a problem for lots of you, but I'm not the gifted one here, so I've been at a bit of a loss. I didn't like a lot of preschool stuff I was reading, and she'd already mastered so many of the "preschool" skills of shapes and colors and such. So I just had to share this incase anyone else was looking for just this stuff. :)

Peace,
Laura

isisjade

10-23-2005, 06:22 AM

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teachma

10-23-2005, 07:01 PM

I just want to share...today ds had the first of two parts of the testing that will hopefully generate some kind of reasonably accurate IQ number as well as inform us as to whether there is an important discrepancy between his verbal and nonverbal abilities. The second half will be next Sunday, and then we should expect to wait a few weeks before reviewing the results with the evaluator. For those interested who don't know our background, we chose to go through with the testing on a recommendation for the therapist ds has been seeing since June for anxiety. His anxiety had gotten so severe that it prevented him from virtually all "normal" activities and began to manifest itself as OCD. The therapist wondered, #1, if some of his anxiety was caused by a discrrepancy in his abilities and his struggle to cope with how easily some things come to him while others are relatively much more difficult, and #2, if perhaps he has a major excess of mental energy that needs to be channeled more specifically. Since my parents agreed to pay for the testing, and since I suspected ds would actually enjoy the whole process, I figured, Why not. I don't plan to use the results for anything specific at school; I just figured, some more knowledge about my kid can't hurt.

Ds seemed to love the experience, as well as the doctor who assessed him. She said that, mid-way through when she usually gives children a break, she offered him some time to rest and he said his brain wasn't tired and he's rather keep going. I told her, "That's the challenge of parenting this kid; his brain is literally never tired- but occasionally, MINE is!" Anyway, some of the questions were weird. Like they asked him "What is the biggest ocean in the world?" How is that an indication of supposed IQ? Isn't that more like concrete knowledge you'd need to be taught? Anyway, in the car, we had been talking about Atlanta, where my siblings attended college, so instead of the answer he wanted to give (AtlantIC), he told me he accidentally said Atlanta. Great, not even an ocean! Not that Atlantic was the right answer anyway...He said they also asked him, What are shoes made out of? and he was puzzled. he's have known to say "leather" if he'd looked down to see leather shoes on his feet, but those synthetic hiking boot materials- who the h*** knows what that is called anyway! And that's basically what he said to the woman! But then, when he was asked, What shines in the sky at night? He said, "The moon and all the stars." See- I would have just said the moon. He said the puzzles were all easy, as were the pairs of pictures for which he had to identify differences. We'll see...

mamaverdi

10-23-2005, 09:28 PM

Not that everyone is as obsessed with OT as I am right now, but the site I mentioned before is really: www.handwritingforkids.com

mv

eilonwy

10-24-2005, 11:22 AM

So my mom had a stroke a few weeks ago. They sent someone around to "test" her-- to see if she'd lost any significant abilities, brain-wise. And they couldn't really test her, because the regular list of questions to ask a stroke victim were all waaaaaay below the sorts of things that they needed to ask her. :eyesroll :lol Luckily, the doctor who did her IQ test last summer is often floating around the rehab ward, so mom just told the poor, innocent nurse to go ask him for a different list of questions. :wink

Which brings me to a thought: apparently, they've never had a stroke victim on the floor before who was that far above average. :scratch How is that possible? A lot of gifted & highly gifted people die of strokes, from what I've read. Moreover, they die very young in many cases. Is it possible that the higher survival rate for stroke victims today is what makes my mother the first ever stroke victim in this particular hospital to be of well-above-average intelligence? :scratch That just blows my mind! I have such a hard time wrapping my head around that idea. I want to know why-- why is it that they've never had one before? There are plenty of smart people around, but is my mother really *that* extraordinary? :scratch

Teachma-- Intelligence tests are, for the most part, very old fashioned. They ask kids questions which have absolutely no bearing on modern life. I got *one* question wrong on that list of strange questions that they ask kids, and when I got home I looked it up and talked to my mom about it because I was pissed. She laughed and said that the exact same question had messed with her. This is why I tell *everyone* who is about to take an IQ test that turpentine comes from pine trees. Back in the 20's, when they started giving kids this test, every child in America saw an awful lot of turpentine-- it was everywhere. Kids knew what it was and what it was for. Today, a child is likely to be well into his teens before he ever sees a can of turpentine, especially if his parents aren't artists into different sorts of media. I had certainly never seen turpentine in real life when I took that IQ test when I was 12. :shrug I'm still irritated by it (not that it made such a huge imapct on my score, just that I got it wrong because I had no freaking clue) so I tell everyone I see-- turpentine comes from pine trees. PINE TREES!! I think your son probably already had that question, though, because I remember it being in the same list as "What's the biggest ocean in the world?"

ChristaN

10-24-2005, 01:01 PM

For those of you whose kids are in elementary school, do you have conferences coming up? Last Friday was the last day of my girls quarter & we have conferences in a week. I am not sure what, if anything, I want to bring up. I am generally pretty happy w/ both of my kids classrooms b/c they are happy and not complaining. I have a few questions on procedures for dd#2's kindergarten teacher, but I don't know about my older dd.

Her 2nd grade class started pulling kids out for intensive reading, and other classes for the kids who need extra help almost at the beginning of the year. TAG pull-out has yet to start and, I admit, that I am a bit irritated. I don't understand why some of the kids w/ different needs get help immediately, but the advanced kids have to wait so long. I know that it isn't the teacher's problem and she is doing a really wonderful job keeping dd challenged, but I want more for her. I also don't want to look like a pushy parent.

The two things that come to mind are:

1) Again (!) asking about when TAG is going to start
and
2) requesting a copy of the literacy test results from the testing that dd was given at the begining of the year.

On the second one, I am not sure what I would do with the info and don't want to look like I want it solely for bragging rights. I don't know if there really is any reason that I need the info beyond what they have told me verbally.

What are you all planning on pursuing at P/T conferences?

mamaverdi

10-24-2005, 01:19 PM

The biggest ocean question makes me nutty. I mean, aren't all the oceans really just one ocean? They aren't big lakes. Nutty, I tell you.

Somehow I knew that turpentine came from pine trees, but I couldn't say how. Maybe enough time hanging out with visual artists.

ChristaN, don't worry about being a pushy parent. Much worse to see the parent who doesn't care. My biggest issue with P/T conferences is that they aren't taking it seriously that my 5 year old who knows high school vocabulary words, still can't seem to figure out reading. I'm wondering if he may be dyslexic. And we're probably going to pull him from the G/T school because we are spending about 4 hours in the car to get him there and back every day. Oy!

Britishmum, I'm glad you are making peach with your little girl having friends in her own time. I liked your solution to invite some of everyone without foisting anyone on her, as well as talking about the other older girls more too. I would have had the same ethical quandry about the pumpkin actually.

Rynna, that's totally shocking too...about the stroke IQ tests... I don't even know what to say except weird.

mv

CAmomto1

10-24-2005, 01:36 PM

What are you all planning on pursuing at P/T conferences?

Our conference is this week. I've already talked to DD's teacher about discussing math, so that's on the table. Other than that, I'm just curious to hear her impressions of DD and how things are going thus far. DD is very happy with her teachers and most of her classmates. I'd like to see her have more opportunities to do math at her level, so hopefully this will be the beginning of getting that in motion.

DD brought in the book Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus today and was reading - with feeling, may I add - to her friends this morning. It was an adorable sight to see. :love I have to admit, I'm always glad when DD shows her teachers what she's capable of, so that it's not always just me saying she can do this and that, :blah :blah .

BoyGirlTwinsAPMama

10-25-2005, 02:12 PM

OTMomma

10-25-2005, 04:37 PM

CAmomto1

10-25-2005, 05:17 PM

My children are not in school (they are only 2) but I have been researching schooling a lot and am curious about how you mothers feel about letting someone else teach your kids, knowing what you know about your kids and their teachers not knowing or not being able to do much about it? I mean, why do you send your kids to a school that you have to really fuss at to get them to educate your gifted kids at your kids level or just leave your kids not learning so much during the day? I am not judging you, I am wondering what your benefits are that you send them there. Everyone I ask here is just "Well, you HAVE to send your kids to school!" There was NO thought process behind it and so I am hoping to hear someone's well thought out thought process of sending their gifted children to a classroom of average/mixed intelligence schools.

We started thinking about hs'ing DD when she was 2.5 years. Over the course of the next three years, I found it hard to find a core group of friends to be with on a consistent basis that were somewhat nearby and DD's age or perhaps a bit older. The academics were fine; it was fulfilling the social needs that were problematic. One friend moved; another will be moving; another one turned out to be much different once I really got to know her, to my dismay. It wasn't enough for DD to go to dance a couple of hours a week. She and I needed more of a community that was consistent, that we felt attached to and invested in.

So for now, we've gone the route of a secular private school. We're taking things one year at a time. I struggle with letting go a bit of the need to control what DD learns, but then I had that problem hs'ing too. I continue to find myself surprised at just how much DD's teacher wants to understand DD and help meet her needs. She truly wants to know her and work with her. I feel lucky.

eilonwy

10-25-2005, 09:26 PM

The biggest ocean question makes me nutty. I mean, aren't all the oceans really just one ocean? They aren't big lakes. Nutty, I tell you.

That's what I said when I was asked the question. Dr. Janisak gave me a look and said, "You know what I mean." It was pretty funny. :lol

My mom is an old coot. :lol Very smart, but a coot nonetheless. She's also been a walking dead person for more than 40 years now, so this stroke is really just putting her farther down the path that she really wants to be on. The trouble with her testing is that she's still having physical issues as a result of the stroke-- she can't do things with her right hand that she used to be able to do easily and well. It's not as big a deal as it could be because she's *extremely* left-handed (but not at all mathematically or visual-spatially inclined.... :scratch :ponder: ) but it does get in the way of doing normal, everyday things like turning the pages of a book or combing her hair. She's also having problems with her right leg, necessitating the use of a walker. It's pretty crazy. I'm sure that the nurses have talked to the shrink by now, though. I wonder what they've done with her? I guess I'll find out tomorrow, when I go into town for my OB appointment. :D

As to school-- I'm pretty sure that I've made my feelings on the subject known over and over again in these threads and others. :lol If you'd like to hear more of my insane and inane rantings on the subject, I can do that via PM.

We're making progress on the reading over here. BeanBean and BooBah are both enjoying themselves immensely. Sometimes I feel like I must be kidding myself-- if BeanBean, at age three, needs to be actively taught to read, is he really as smart as I think he is? Is there ever any good reason to actively teach a 16-month old anything more "schoolish" than the parts of her body? I go around in circles, second and third guessing myself, until one of the kids drags a book or an airplane or their own little behind over to me and starts yammering away about letters or numbers or airplanes or birthdays or... well, you get the idea. :blah :blah :blah

I guess it's just making me think more and more: It's very easy for me to look at the things my very young (less than a year) children do and say, "I think my child is gifted" or even "yeah, they're probably gifted," but as BeanBean gets older I start to question my initial judgement. This is very silly-- it becomes obvious when you put BeanBean into a room full of children around his own age that he is very different, and giftedness would be the easy and obvious answer to the question of "how?"-- but it still pops into my head all the freaking time. Then I remember that even if my kids were perfectly average, I'd be doing all of the same things-- I'd start teaching them to read as soon as they showed an interest, demonstrated the ability to sit still for some length of time, and I had the time and energy to do it. I'd try very hard to expose them to different things, mostly through the library because it's free and fun. I'd still have brought home those National Geographics and let the kids flip through them at will. So it's all good, right?

lckrause

10-26-2005, 10:00 AM

Rynna, your kids are both showing a definite interest in letters/reading, so I say let them learn. If I hadn't let Hollis learn to read at that age, I would have had a demon child on my hands. I remember I used to sit there with one of my (adult) books and he'd be pointing to the tiny letters demanding to know what they were. :nut It was tiring but worth it in the end, because when he could read by himself he finally got a tad less intense about asking me stuff. I think you should go for it if they are the ones asking for it!

m&m

10-26-2005, 01:52 PM

My children are not in school (they are only 2) but I have been researching schooling a lot and am curious about how you mothers feel about letting someone else teach your kids, knowing what you know about your kids and their teachers not knowing or not being able to do much about it? I mean, why do you send your kids to a school that you have to really fuss at to get them to educate your gifted kids at your kids level or just leave your kids not learning so much during the day? I am not judging you, I am wondering what your benefits are that you send them there. Everyone I ask here is just "Well, you HAVE to send your kids to school!" There was NO thought process behind it and so I am hoping to hear someone's well thought out thought process of sending their gifted children to a classroom of average/mixed intelligence schools.

Well My dd wanted to go to school for some attention and praise from someone other than her mother. She said that of course I'd think she is awesome. But when they had to put her in K regardless of ability, it was disastrous. (Too many reasons why to go into really)

This year we are homeschooling at the grade 3 and 4 level (some things are higher but we are calling it grade 4 anyway) - and she has a teacher that we send her work to who then gives her praise for it. LOL

We also have a few wonderful groups that we meet with at least 2 times per month, and have already had a few field trips together, and some play dates. So far these friendships have been better for her too.

I also know some kids who are very competitive in nature (not mine) who need to have a classroom to be compared to. Some of these are in public school and are struggling to fit in, others are in a private gifted school and love it (but pay a lot for this).

teachma

10-26-2005, 07:13 PM

In our case, regular old public school kindergarten has been exactly what ds needed! I understand why it is rare for gifted or exceptionally intelligent children to fit well in a public school setting, but the gifted children I've taught (and their parents) have always been pleased with the learning environment in my classroom, and so far, ds is having a blast at his school! I do think his teacher is not gifted herself, but a very talented teacher. She is not differentiating for him per se, but she provides enough choice and enough of an interesting curriculum that he is captivated. Moreover, though he has been sounding out words for a verrrry long time and applying all the rules (silent e, when two vowels go walking, etc.), but it has been just since the third or fourth week of kindergarten that he is actually interested in reading for real, by himself, unprompted by me. His teacher is very interested in community service and does some with them, and ds has also converted his fear of disabled people into a desire to work closely with, and help, a physically and mentally disabled girl in his own class...so these kinds of things may be what are holding his interest in school. But I really don't care at the moment. There's a lot more to learn in the world than academics, and if he's enjoying what they're doing in there, I think it's right for him, for now. We also deal with the mega-perfectionism and the severe anxiety, and for the last couple of months, both have been pretty well in check, so I'm happier with less strenuous academics for him right now, and more time to relax. The schoolwork is "easy" but he is clearly not bored...so far.

isisjade

10-26-2005, 07:24 PM

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eilonwy

10-26-2005, 09:01 PM

I remember I used to sit there with one of my (adult) books and he'd be pointing to the tiny letters demanding to know what they were.

OMG, this is soooo BooBah. :nut It's seriously mind-boggling to me. And how many 16 month olds feel the need to say "Cryptonomicon" and get the pronunciation just right? AAACK! :lol

luvmypoonchkie

10-27-2005, 12:01 AM

Hey guys! Just popping in, not much new to report from here other than I've been seduced by blogging! I'm really having so much fun tinkering with the templates and decoding HTML. Here's the links to my two blogs if anyone is interested.

Sam's blog:
http://thevirtualfridge.blogspot.com/

My new homeschooling blog:
http://homeschoolblogger.com/stellaluna/

Hope everyone is doing well!

Jenn

teachma

10-27-2005, 07:56 PM

Dds will take different things from activities than less advanced peers, but it should still stimulate them and encourage creativity. And they should be happy there. As long as they are happy and interested, I can make up the 'academics' at home. Someone recently said to me that I'll be 'homeschooling' my kids anyway for their entire childhood. They won't allow me not to. School should be an 'add-on' for us, where the kids make friends, do interesting stuff, enjoy relationships with the other adults, and bring home ideas for me to expand on at home.

If it doesn't work, we'll pull out. But so far, everyone is having a blast. :)

This is my perspective on the whole thing, exactly. Maybe that's why our two oldests are so alike...or, perhaps we've come to similar conclusions about school as a result of our similar parenting experiences...interesting.

mamaverdi

10-27-2005, 08:32 PM

This is my perspective on the whole thing, exactly. Maybe that's why our two oldests are so alike...or, perhaps we've come to similar conclusions about school as a result of our similar parenting experiences...interesting.

What teachma and Britishmum are describing is what I really wish we could find for my son...somewhere that was contiguous with homelife/learning. Maybe it's that the school is so far away. There isn't really a chance to make a community of friends there. Everyone is so spread out. We are interviewing another school tomorrow to see about moving him just to a regular classroom, but somewhere close to home. Unfortunately, for a myriad of reasons, I don't think our local public school would work. Wish us luck.

eilonwy

10-28-2005, 07:47 PM

I've never encountered a school like that in real life. *sigh*

isisjade

10-29-2005, 04:41 PM

eilonwy

10-29-2005, 05:04 PM

Well, if you just refer to your son as "a kindergartener" or "a first grader" and ask for advice in the homeschooling forum, I bet you'll get plenty of fun stuff. :thumb I asked for some ideas about airplanes (this week, it's the B-29-- I've learned more about airplanes in the past month than I had in my entire life before that!) because BeanBean is obsessed with them, and got some really great ideas. :thumb

That said, my little boy is the same age as yours (just a few days younger ;)) and we have no problem with most kindergarten and first grade lesson plans for ideas. :thumb They're still age appropriate at this point, and there's lots of fun to be had. The homeschooling forum here (Learning at Home and Beyond) leans heavily towards unschooling and towards letting children be children-- in short, not exposing them to inappropriate materials for that particular child. You'll be able to find lots of advice geared toward slightly older but less "streetwise" than average kids; this makes them pretty much perfect for a gifted child who is younger and needs more interesting academic challenges but isn't ready for the more "streetwise" things which appear in mainstream education.

loraxc

10-29-2005, 07:34 PM

isisjade, have you tried www.uptoten.com? Although you might have been the one who recommended it to me... :o I don't know exactly what they have for older kids, but I think there is a "6 and up" section along with the Boowa and Kwala stuff that my DD is obsessed with, some of which may be "old" enough for your son. The Between the Lions site has some fun reading/word games that DD likes, too.

I've been away from the thread, as my FIL died (this has been really heartbreaking with DD, and complicated to explain, too--I don't think a 21mo is ready for the idea of the permanency of death, but she was certainly ready to ask a lot of questions about the location of Grandpa) and things have been crazy, but I'm reading back.

eilonwy

10-31-2005, 03:45 PM

:wave Just wondering where everyone is. My kids are fun and wild, I'm really enjoying them these days. BeanBean is very excited to be dressing up as Princess Fiona for ToT, BooBah is talking about airplanes (because BeanBean never shuts up about them! :lol) and having a good time being a doll. :love

What's up? How's school going? How's homeschooling? :innocent

LeftField

10-31-2005, 07:56 PM

*Waves to Rynna* :wave

We skipped Halloween this year. DS1 gets so freaked out by the costumes and decorations. And the kids don't eat candy yet. Actually, I was hoping this year would be better than last year. Last year when he was 3, I literally couldn't get past the door of most craft or party stores, because the decorations really frightened him. I think it started when he was 2 and saw a giant blow-up Santa at Garden Ridge. I have never seen that kid walk so fast. Last year, I helped him cope with a bit by getting him to walk through part of the store with his eyes closed. And I helped him get over his fear of scarecrows at 3 by making one with him.

But this year, it's no better. He's afraid of any giant blow-up decoration of any sort. And then, when you add some ghoulish corpse statues and things with big teeth into the equation, it's awful. I feel so bad for him. So, we'll skip it this year. I'm finding that most people don't understand this, for some reason.

Homeschooling is going well. We unschool, but things are chugging along here. Ds1 is still interested in engines. I got him a great DK Car book that had lots of photos of engines and the insides of cars in general. I would love to get him a kit, but dh thinks we should wait until his 5th birthday. There's a Smithsonian brand one that is encased in plastic and supposedly safe for kids. If it comes apart again, that would be great, but if it doesn't, then maybe we should wait until the spring. He has great fine motor skills, but he'd get more out of it later, I think, if it's a one-shot deal.

He's still interested in basic physics stuff, mostly gravity, latent vs kinetic energy and molecules. I got the Kingfisher Science Encyclopedia that Teachma recommended (thanks!! It's great!) and I also borrowed, "More Mudpies to Magnets" from the library. I need to get off my butt and kind of plan something for him, because he's keen to do some experiments. He wants to know what the outside of molecules look like; I didn't think he could stump my dh. :lol So, dh helped me earmark some experiments and now I need to plan them.

I kept the kids in Gymboree, even though we've always had issues with it, simply because they do love it. But I paid through to December and I'm really kicking myself over it. Participation is really down in the family style classes and we're stuck with the same woman who taught ds1's art class when he was 3. She's not teaching, but her boys are taking this other class along with us. She seemed to have really mellowed out a lot, but when ds1 started drawing some more intricate stuff in recent classes, she started acting weird again. Last week, she took over her 2.5 yo's drawing sheet by drawing shapes and quizzing him on them, complete with over the top praising. The mean and snarky part of me wanted to draw a trapezoid for ds2, but I did not. :p She comments on ds1's drawings and then goes on to her son about how he's progressing in drawing; it just feels weird and unnecessary and actually harmful on some level to her son.

She's asked me on a few occasions what month the kids' birthdays are in (her boys are about 6 months older than each of mine). She's really into comparisons and while ds1 is still oblivious, her son, unfortunately, seems very aware of how important it is to her. He's very insecure and he talks down to both my kids. Also, her son (almost 5 yrs old) knocks over my son's block structures every time they bring out those giant blocks. It upsets ds1, but despite my pep talk, he doesn't tell the boy that it hurts his feelings or anything along those lines. I dread having to go, honestly. There are 4 more weeks in this class with them and then we can spend the remaining 4 weeks in the standard physical class. I don't know why I got sucked into staying with it, but as I said, the kids clamor to go. Ugh.

Ds2, who may or may not be gifted, has started doing more in the drawing dept. He had been labeling his scribbles after creating them. Lately, he's announced what he plans on drawing before he actually makes the scribble. And we discovered that if we draw a train body, he adds steam, track (kind of a diagonal slash), and wheels; he says what they are as he makes them. He's kind of obsessed with Magnadoodle and he demands that we draw the same object over and over, as he adds things to it. Sometimes, we're not even done drawing it and he says, "No." and erases it abruptly and restates his demand. It's like he's trying to memorize how to make it. It seems weird to me, because it's symbolism rather than free art, YK, but it seems very important to him. He's obsessed with trains lately.

Speaking of obsessions, BeanBean's plane obsession sounds pretty cool. Does he like specific plane types or does he like most of them?

Karenwith4

10-31-2005, 08:18 PM

A new topic here: anyone have recommendations for websites/software for my almost 3-year-old? I think we have exhausted starfall's offerings. We love Achieve Math and Science Grades 1-3 (which I found used very cheaply on Amazon) for the logic and science disk, but we have used it a lot over the past year or so and need something new. ...snip... He loves the computer, and I think it's a really good way for him to learn in a self-directed manner. I'd like to get him something fun for the holidays. Any suggestions? Thanks.

My oldest loved the DK Explorer series at that age - World Explorer, History Explorer, Science Explorer and Amazing Animals were huge hits. There are USA and British history versions as well but we don't have those. I think they may be re-releasing this series but I just picked up our older versions on ebay cheap. He spent ages with them while I was looking after our newborn twins. Content is appropriate for young ones - some reading skills are helpful but my then just turned 3 y/o was just starting to read when he was playing these.

HTH
Karen

LeftField

10-31-2005, 08:21 PM

I meant to put a picture in my post earlier. Here is a funny picture I got of ds1 the other day. He's looking at one of the NASA sites (it's interactive!) and it just looks funny, because he has his little mug and everything. It looks like he's at work or something. :lol
http://photobucket.com/albums/y6/hrk72/?action=view&current=benphoto_oct05.jpg

lckrause

11-01-2005, 01:26 AM

Hi to all. :wave

I haven't been posting much, I know. We have cat drama here. I foolishly took in a stray for a few weeks--I felt bad for it because the nights were getting really cold, then my aunt said she'd take it so we kept it in so we wouldn't have to catch it again, blah blah etc. Anyway, this ultimately ended up with the stray exposing my other HEALTHY cat to all sorts of hideous things (including fleas and roundworm--UGH!) and an Alcatraz-like escape from a locked pet carrier in the parking lot of the Petco low cost vet clinic. Good riddance, I say. :irked: Anyway, now I need to treat my cat for fleas at the very least... from what the vet said, the roundworm is unlikely to affect a healthy adult cat, so that is good. I'm thinking about proactively treating for tapeworm too because it's so often transmitted along with fleas. I feel so bad for my poor kitty. :( Fleas aside, he seems happy and healthy, but I feel terribly guilty.

Leftfield, Hollis wouldn't do Halloween until he was almost 5 (December bday), and I think he only did it then because Nan was. Now he loves it though, even though he always dresses up the same--as a ghost. The kids had a blast tonight trick-or-treating. We were gone for over an hour and they got quite a haul considering we didn't go far.

[Pause to watch dramatic X-Files scene on TNT]

Umm... crud... where was I? Oh yeah, homeschooling.

Homeschooling is going pretty well. Nan asked to learn Spanish so we've been doing a little of that from a workbook my mom picked up at a booksale somewhere. The text is high school or college but since I already know Spanish it's been pretty easy to adapt things to her level. She's been doing a little math as well in one of Hollis' old workbooks that he ended up outgrowing before he had a chance to use it. Otherwise she is mainly into her dance and gymnastics and pottery--she has a pottery class, gymnastics, and three dance classes each week in addition to the homeschool swim and gym class they both take at the Y. It seems like so much to me but she totally thrives on all the activities.

Hollis is doing his usual math, Latin, chemistry, and then freeform reading and learning in other areas. I printed him out a grammar worksheet and a blank map of South America to fill in today and he seemed to enjoy those so I think I'll print him more of them. I was amazed that he could fill in 9 of the 15 South American countries without consulting an atlas. He told me the history of the Falkland Islands too--something about Argentina and the UK fighting over them and the UK winning, although Argentina still tries to claim the islands as their own. He also told me why Ecuador was so named and some other "interesting" trivia. :lol He wants to continue on with Japanese and I found a pretty good website with lessons, but you're only allowed to access 20 pages at a time without paying. So I downloaded about half of the lessons here and will have to get the rest at my mom's. :wink

Nan on the other hand did not enjoy the grammar and map worksheets at all--so I guess I won't be printing out any more for her! :lol

We've been reading the Lemony Snickets books together... we're almost done with Book 3. The kids love them, even Hollis who normally doesn't get into fiction. It's great to see him laughing at something like that--he's so literal minded, usually. I think the wordplay in the books really speaks to him. He read part of Eats Shoots and Leaves (a punctuation book) and enjoyed that too, although he didn't finish it.

Hmm, guess that's all for now, seeing as how it's after two in the morning. I'll try to post more often now that Typhoid Kitten is no longer annoying me.

ETA: Leftfield, that computer pic is really cute! :love Here are a couple from tonight of the kids in their costumes:

http://www.ghosts.org/annika/2005/halloween05-1.jpg
http://www.ghosts.org/annika/2005/halloween05-2.jpg

OTMomma

11-01-2005, 08:31 AM

My dd and I have been staying with my mom this week, while dh is gone on a business trip. It has been a really long week already! My mom and my dd love each other, but they just push all each other's buttons too. My family here swears I was just as cleaver at 3 as dd is, but there is no way I can believe that I was as high strung as she is. ( and I sort of doubt the intelligence thing, but we'll let it go for now) I know my parents couldn't have handled the drama. Like the screaming fit every time her nose starts to run! Speaking of, we trick or treated a little last night, and she enjoyed it, but she ran out of steam pretty quickly and ended up coming down with a cold. :(

On the Homeschooling front- we are still happy with our Montissori activities I've found on the web. I'm not doing it "pure" because I am happy letting dd watch an occasional TV show or play a computer game. Speaking of- dd is now using the mouse independently (she's loved computer games for a long time, but had a hard time with the mouse), and she started peddeling her tricycle indepently too! What a leap in motor skills this week!

Peace,
Laura

eilonwy

11-01-2005, 06:02 PM

Oh, my kids don't actually get to eat much candy. Last night Mike gave each of them one piece, and this morning BeanBean climbed and found some Snickers bars, gave one to his sister and took another for himself, but that's it. :thumb I think that they've both forgotten about the gigantic bags that they collected last night. :lol There were several houses where BooBah refused to get out of the wagon because the house or the person sitting on the porch looked scary, but BeanBean was very excited to show everyone his dress. :lol Our next-door neighbor (who, naturally, knows full well that BeanBean is a boy) just said, "What a pretty dress!" :D He had a great time telling everyone that Princess Fiona was an OGRE! Mike said that he thought about Shrek a bit more and realized that if you had to pick a character to dress up as, Fiona would have to be it; all the male characters have major personality flaws. :lol This struck me has absolutely hilarious, because that morning BeanBean had been telling me that the donkey was a bit of an ass, as was Shrek himself. :laugh:

BeanBean's response to some of the scarier costumes: "Wow, her mouth was really dark! That's pretty yucky." (In a very matter-of-fact voice.) "That doesn't look very nice! What's wrong with him?" :laugh: And more in that vein. He was very thoughtful, though, and held most of his comments until we were out of visual (though not necessarily auditory) range. :down :lol

Anyway, they both had a great time and everyone loved their dresses. :love I'll take some pictures of them and post them this weekend.

Speaking of obsessions, BeanBean's plane obsession sounds pretty cool. Does he like specific plane types or does he like most of them?

Given the choice between a book about airplanes and a book about anything else, he will take the planes. Given the choice between a book about different kinds of planes or his plane-of-the-week, he'll take the plane-of-the-week. This week, it's the B-29. I thought that his selections were totally random, but now I have to wonder-- the first favorite was the Bell-X1 (the first plane to break the sound barrier), followed by the Beluga Airbus, and this week it's the B-29. Are they being selected alphabetically? :lol I'm inclined to doubt it, but I'm paying attention now. I have no idea how he's choosing which particular plane to be obsessed with this period (generally 1-2 weeks) but he seems to have some little system all his own. :shrug

The thing that bothers me is that there are sooo many planes which have exclusively military applications. When you're flipping channels on TV and you find airplanes or helicopters, the chances are it's a war documentary. I'm so not cool with explaining war to my three year old, you know? That just freaks me out! :nut Thus far, we've kept war talk to a minimum but if this obsession with airplanes continues, we're going to have to start talking about war sooner or later and I'd much rather it be later, you know? *shudder* Some parents dread the sex talk, but I'd rather do that a thousand times than have to explain war to my three year old. :tiptoe

BooBah is really enjoying the baby books I take out of the library, and BeanBean looooves "reading" them to her. There's a series of "That's Not My ____..." books which are great fun because a) they're totally formulaic and, thus, easy to memorize and b) they're feely books, which is very amusing for BooBah. :D This week, it's "That's Not My Dinosaur!" Adorable! :love :lol

teachma

11-01-2005, 06:55 PM

I got the Kingfisher Science Encyclopedia that Teachma recommended (thanks!! It's great!)

Glad you're happy with it!

teachma

11-01-2005, 06:58 PM

He read part of Eats Shoots and Leaves (a punctuation book) and enjoyed that too, although he didn't finish it.

This is one of my all-time FAVORITES! Glad I'm not the only grammar nerd.

TiredX2

11-01-2005, 08:18 PM

We've been reading the Lemony Snickets books together... we're almost done with Book 3. The kids love them, even Hollis who normally doesn't get into fiction. It's great to see him laughing at something like that--he's so literal minded, usually.

DD & DS enjoyed those as well. Well, DS loved 1 & 2, started getting bored around 3 and we gave up after #5. DD read a couple more on her own, though. *I* want to go back and read them now that you mention it, though!

teachma

11-01-2005, 08:41 PM

On another subject, we have a bit of an issue with the content of some of the stories that the kids have read to them at preschool. I'm not sure what to do, as I have no handle on what upsets a normal kid. Anyway, recently the Spanish teacher started telling a story of a child who was a twin, whose twin died at the age of two. (I imagine it was something historical, but I didnt hear much as I was reading ahead of the teacher and managed to get dd#1 out the room quick.) Thank goodness I am there all the time, to take action. Otherwise, we'd have major anxiety over something like this for months, nightmares, sleepwalking etc.

I felt it was really inappropriate for 3-5s to read something like this.

Umm...yes. This would have had severe ramifications for us, as well. Ds does not obsess about death at the moment, but it has been a major topic of worry for a very long time (in similar ways as it has for your dd, Britishmum) and I would have been very upset to hear it as a theme in a children's story in school.

Similarly, the PSYCHOLOGIST! who did ds's IQ testing last weekend and the weekend before felt it as appropriate to play Clue with him during a "break" from the test. He came out telling me, "We played this game with all ddifferent rooms and different characters, and each one had a weapon, and the object was to figure out who the killer was." was shocked that this woman, who understands he has anxiety about death, chose to play a game with a killer in the middle of his IQ testing. So I guess if the results are not favorable, I can claim there's a reason they're skewed...

TiredX2

11-02-2005, 10:16 AM

Similarly, the PSYCHOLOGIST! who did ds's IQ testing last weekend and the weekend before felt it as appropriate to play Clue with him during a "break" from the test. He came out telling me, "We played this game with all ddifferent rooms and different characters, and each one had a weapon, and the object was to figure out who the killer was." was shocked that this woman, who understands he has anxiety about death, chose to play a game with a killer in the middle of his IQ testing. So I guess if the results are not favorable, I can claim there's a reason they're skewed...

:hide: I played that with DD last week when DS was out pumpkin carving with Daddy. Probably not my best choice ever.

ChristaN

11-02-2005, 10:56 AM

I play Clue with my kids, too, but they don't have a death fixation. I think that it is totally going to depend on the kid and I'd check with the parent if I didn't know the kid well.

Tracy

11-02-2005, 01:07 PM

I have been lurking for some time........

DS has not been tested but dh and myself feel he is very, very smart...as for gifted I don't know what qualifies or not... But I see similiar traits posted on this very, very long thread .... I was wondering if some of you moms could share with me the social bumps your dc has experienced.

My DS does not seem to be as smooth as his peers in social circles. And in some ways I think his verbal is not as with it. Strange because he can do other things so very, very well....

anyway, can some of you please share your child's preschool issues around social stuff.

thanks so much!

tracy

LeftField

11-02-2005, 01:17 PM

Welcome, Tracy! How old is your son? My oldest is not very social. It's a combination of factors: introversion, high degree of caution, and not playing the same way as age-mates. He was into imaginary play a long time before other boys seemed to be. And the physical play of boys made him nervous. At almost 4 1/2, it's much much better than it was at 1, 2, or 3. He figured out that girls were generally into the same kinds of play as he was, so he gravitates to them a lot. Having a younger brother who is like a bear cub on most days :lol has done a lot for increasing his comfort level with physical play. Most of it was an issue of time. He's just now starting to approach other age-mates and initiate play with them. For a very long time, he preferred babies or adults.

What kind of social issues are you dealing with?

LeftField

11-02-2005, 01:20 PM

Lisa,

I'm glad to hear of another child who got over Halloween fears. We seem to bump into Halloween stuff everywhere and it really freaks him out. Your kids are adorable, btw!

Britishmum,
I would be horrified if someone read those types of stories to my preschoolers!

Teachma,
I hope your son is Ok after the Clue incident. It would bother me too, honestly.

Tracy

11-02-2005, 06:13 PM

thank you, Leftfield.

Ds turned 4 in July. He likes kids meaning he likes being around them but he still prefers playing by them and doing his own thing than really digging in and engaging with them. He will do chase and hide and seek with them. And other games but a lot of the times his engaging can look like running his car into their blocks or their cars. And there are some kids, usually older (like my friend's son) who he will play hours with... he loves when my friend's son 'shows' him stuff.

He is an only child so he does not have the benefit of sibling energy ..sigh. And he has two very doting parents. When I told my friend that DS is having some problems socially my friend said, "what do you expect, pretty much every day since he was born he has been living in the Ritz Carleton". Ha!

We certainly are not rich but my friend is right, DS gets a lot of attention lavished on him. Anyway, he does seem to prefer older kids and younger. His peers can be hard for him and he might shell up a bit more but his shell looks like going into elaborate fantasy play about his train or truck or whatever in his own world. The teacher did tell me he does engage in inappropriate laughing but she felt it was out of insecurity. Which I have seen at home, if he has knocked over something and made me upset he'll some times laugh as to deflect. Naturally I bust him on it. And now when he laughs at something that I don't get I will ask him, 'why are you laughing?" and he'll usually tell me he is thinking about something from another day or something earlier that happened at home... god knows if the teacher asks his answer probably won't make sense to her since it is a very inside joke.

there are some other things we have to sort through but all in all preschool this year is tremendously better than last year which was really awful. He has matured a great deal this summer but all in all my son feels younger than his peers. If that makes sense.

I don't know...he is just kind of goofy. But he is smart at the same time. He knew all the flags of europe and asia by the time he was 3, could identify all the states etc... knows all the makes of planes... that kind of thing. Has an extraordinary memory.

Oh, he is very good physically.. he can ride a scooter like a 16 year old boy and his soccer and other sports are quite exceptional. He also is very good at the computer and loves to read.

LeftField

11-02-2005, 07:04 PM

Tracy,

Your son sounds like a wonderful child. Asynchronous development can be tricky. :hug

Welcome again!

Tracy

11-02-2005, 07:15 PM

thank you, britishmom and leftfield for the warm welcome.

it has been a bumpy year.... I was pretty annoyed last year when the bad teacher (my description not ds's) said it was not normal that my son could identify all the flags. That should give you an idea what I had in store for me...sigh.

if anyone else can share their bumps I would be mucho appreciative.

teachma

11-02-2005, 07:20 PM

Tracy, your son's social issues sound familiar to me. My five year old finally likes playing around other kids his age, but even still, the games he gets involved in are mostly the chase-type games. I am thankful there are kids at kinergarten recess who lie to be chased-- in his small, private preschool he always perceived himself as a troublemaker because the kids would complain incessantly when he initiated a game of tag/chase with them! We do have a younger child, and like a previous poster mentioned, our dd has really brought out some of the playfulness that was absent (or at least latent) in ds. For the first time, he is learning that toys have a purpose because he watches our 1.5 year old enjoy playing with them! However, for the first 3.5 years of his life, not only was he a single child in our family, but he was also taken care of by a doting grandma while dh and I were at work...so, three parents, essentially, for one child. The attention he received was incomparable and clearly could not be surpassed by that of some kids. So, I can relate.

Tracy

11-02-2005, 07:28 PM

Britishmum,
your description of your dd fits so much of my ds! Yes to all. He would totally remember some silly game we did by accident somewhere and when we went by that place or that person again he would totally recall it and want to do it again. god help anyone if they forgot it.

My poor friend who babysat him one time made the mistake of making windmills which was picking up ds and and twirling him. Now my son is constantly saying, "More windmills, more windmills" when he sees my friend.

and teachma I'm so glad to hear you talk about the chase factor. Yes, that is my son. He loves a good chase. There is something about it being universal and like either britishmum or leftfield said it does not have huge rules.

my son has a wicked sense of humor and it has started to come out..it is like having jim carey in the house (sigh). We had to cut back our day at school because he would not lay on the cot for a rest. He lost his nap when he turned 3 so he just for the life of him could not understand why now he must sit and rest on a cot at school. So instead he would fart and laugh and get the other kids to laugh. The school director said, "I think you need to pick him up at 11:45a."

Tracy

11-02-2005, 07:33 PM

eilonwy

11-02-2005, 07:59 PM

edited to add that until recently I was anticipating eventually getting an aspergers diagnosis, but now I don't think we will........I'm not sure how much an Aspergers child can be actively 'taught' social skills, but my instinct is that dd is somewhere on the fringe but we are helping her overcome many of her difficulties. I'm not very knowledgeable about Aspergers - does anyone have any thoughts? I am often baffled by where the giftedness, SID and possibly Aspergers present the same sorts of odd behaviours

My niece is *definately* a kid with Aspergers, and she's learned a lot of social skills over the years. She's very bright, and she's a very interesting child. Socially, she's still a little off and she's got other issues to work on (at 5 years, she still doesn't really understand that it's dangerous to, say, walk out into the middle of a street without looking first) but she's made a *ton* of progress since she started therapy 4 years ago. She's in a regular kindergarten class this year (she tested too well to even merit an IEP, according to the district :eyesroll) and thus far is doing very well considering that her primary caregiver, my mother, has been in and out of the hospital for the entire school year (the past year, really).

The thing about your DD in particular, Britishmum, that would have me questioning a diagnosis of Asperger's would be her level of understanding. Does she actually understand, for example, that traffic can be dangerous? When she started reading, did she understand what she read? My niece can read a newspaper, but the words go from eyes to mouth and there's no stop in between, iykwim. She can recite a list of facts for you and answer questions (this is something that she only learned to do last year, btw) well, but they don't mean anything to her most of the time.

Tracy, welcome! Your son reminds me a bit of myself. My own son is almost painfully extroverted, and will socialize with children of any sort. His favorites are 7-9 year old girls (girls around his older cousin's age), but he'll play/talk/whatever with anyone. In other words, I think I'll leave your socialization questions to other, more qualified mammas to answer. ;)

BooBah is starting to really make my head twist. This morning, I finally bought some math books for BeanBean (who is "officially" a kindergartener this year). After flipping through Miquon and Singapore, I settled on Primary Math 1A & B (I got both textbooks for $11.50!) which are very colorful and fun-looking. :D Anyway, we did the first two pages (counting, one-to-one correspondance) and BooBah climbed right into my lap and counted along. A bit odd for a 16 month old, but not scary. What was scary was that about 10 minutes ago, she pointed to the 8 of hearts on my Solitaire screen and said, "eight!" :jaw :yikes: Now, I'm just getting used to her pointing out letters in my books and when I type, but to see her point to the number 8 after having first been exposed to it a few hours earlier... well, it just freaks me out. Where's the "head spinning" smilie?! Is it weird that I find myself actually, honestly *afraid* of what the future holds? I'm starting to feel like I haven't had enough time to build up a comfort level with BooBah. I find myself thinking "well, maybe she'll slow down later on, and look a little more like a normal gifted kid?" and I know that that kind of thinking is just not productive, but there's a big hunk of my brain that is just *freaking out* over this.

To be honest, I'm still totally wracked by formally teaching BeanBean at this age, but BooBah?!? She's still a baby, even if she has self-weaned and prefers walking to the sling! She barely weighs 20 pounds, she wears *infant*sized clothing, she's supposed to be a *baby* and she's just trying so hard to be a big girl. She even pooped in the potty today... Good grief, she's growing up too quickly. I know that every parent feels that way sometimes, but what else are you supposed to think when your baby is pointing out letters and numbers all on her own, and all you want to teach her is how to do the hand motions to "Wheels on the Bus?" :nut

mamaverdi

11-02-2005, 08:47 PM

mamaverdi

11-02-2005, 09:06 PM

Good grief, she's growing up too quickly. I know that every parent feels that way sometimes, but what else are you supposed to think when your baby is pointing out letters and numbers all on her own, and all you want to teach her is how to do the hand motions to "Wheels on the Bus?" :nut

Okay is there a "laughed so hard I almost peed on myself" smilie?

This one will have to do: :laugh:

I do feel for you Rynna. But I gotta say, that if you're as smart as you sound, and you said your own mother is equally bright, you can't really expect to have kids who aren't bright.

Asynchronous development: Well yeah, I have a kid who knows that an indigent (did I even spell that right?) is a homeless person, but he can't recognize all his letters. :shrug He doesn't obsess that someone is dead but with how they died. And until very recently he couldn't do things like jump very well. In fact, I'm still not sure he's all that physically coordinated. But he's extremely and comfortably extroverted. He even gets crushes on girls or even young women (like 20 year olds) that he sees. And he's also obsessed frequently with who is or isn't a vegetarian---and now when I open a can of tuna he says basically, "See I'm not saying anything about you eat that poor dead fish." :raz

Not to make fun of any lawyers around, but many of them seem very socially awkward to me. I can easily see my son being a judge, but only if he didn't have to stay a lawyer for long---he's too extroverted for that.

And why does everything I spell look wrong tonight. Arg....

mv

loraxc

11-02-2005, 09:50 PM

I am often baffled by where the giftedness, SID and possibly Aspergers present the same sorts of odd behaviours

Me, too. I haven't talked much about it, but my 21 mo DD has some behaviors, also, that can be characteristic of Asperger's (pronoun reversal, lack of empathy/understanding of emotions of others, a lot of repetition in her speech, obsession with memorization, very early word recognition, and a "professor-like" tone at times). I posted about this on a gifted-kid list and got a LOT of responses from parents of older kids that were very reassuring. I think there really is a confusing overlap that can be hard to sort out, especially with ever-increasing awareness and diagnosis of Asperger's and other spectrum disorders. I still worry at times, and I suspect I will for a long time, but I'm feeling better about it.

eilonwy

11-03-2005, 12:03 AM

I do feel for you Rynna. But I gotta say, that if you're as smart as you sound, and you said your own mother is equally bright, you can't really expect to have kids who aren't bright.

It's not that I expected not to have bright kids, it's just... well, they're different. They're different from me and my siblings and my husband. BeanBean and BooBah are each following their own developmental paths. In most ways, BeanBean was waaaaaay behind what my siblings and I did (hence all of my mother's "my baby is better than your baby" heckling) but in others he's ahead or on track. Overall, his development made sense to me. BooBah, on the other hand, is way ahead of what we did in most ways, but behind in others (she still talks like a baby, for example). We lead different lives; my kids don't have a mother who is afraid to teach them how to read "before first grade," nor do they have a mother who needs to actively worry about how much her husband will have had to drink before he gets home from work, or what sort of crazy :censored will go on at home tonight. Even so, BooBah's development in particular makes me nervous. What if she passes BeanBean, and he gets jealous? Worse yet, what if he stops doing the things that he enjoys because BooBah does them "better?"

Then there's the whole burn-out question. What if I'm wrong about the whole encouragement vs. pushing line, and I end up pushing too hard? What if the kids get burned out on learning while they're still young? I don't want to see that happen! I work very hard not to push, but in this society it's really difficult to think of *anything* remotely academic for a toddler as child-led, even if it feels like the child is dragging you kicking and screaming. I'm totally not an unschooler, but I do believe that children should learn when they are ready to learn. What if I'm misinterpreting the signs that BooBah is giving me? What if I'm not misinterpreting, but by imposing my own value system (i.e. that learning to read is a hell of a lot more work than a 16 month old should do) I miss a window of opportunity, during which it would be easy and fun for her to learn something? :nut These questions have been eating at my brain for the past few weeks. I guess it all boils down to this: I'm worried about screwing the kids up for life, and every day I seem to have something new to add to my list of things to worry about. :nut

Then of course, there's the fact that I don't feel comfortable talking with parents of children BooBah's age. Last week at Y-tots, BooBah pointed to the letter "A" on the floor and said, "A!" She was very excited and wanted to read the rest of the letters, too. The gym was full of people, but I saw no fewer than four adults just *staring* at BooBah, like she'd grown another little head right before their eyes. :o Noone would talk to me after that. :guilty It felt awful. Most of the parents there had children who were older than BooBah (she was the youngest child registered for the class), so she looked extra-petite in that room. She looked like a baby pointing to letter A.... I just got a cold shiver down my spine, you know? BooBah didn't really notice the shift in mood, but BeanBean did and moved closer to BooBah (he gets very protective of his sister). It was totally off-putting. At this age, BooBah seems *very* different from her peers, and it's just disheartening to me. :crying BeanBean seems more like children his own age, just a more articulate three-year-old with more diverse interests, but BooBah just seems like a baby freak. There's nothing wrong with being a freak, but... well, it can be freaky!

LeftField

11-03-2005, 06:43 AM

Asynchronous development: Well yeah, I have a kid who knows that an indigent (did I even spell that right?) is a homeless person, but he can't recognize all his letters. :shrug He doesn't obsess that someone is dead but with how they died. And until very recently he couldn't do things like jump very well. In fact, I'm still not sure he's all that physically coordinated.

Ok, this is familiar. My 4yo hasn't consciously realized that people die yet, but he gets very creative with ways in which people's bodies can be "damaged" and how they would then stop talking and others would be sad. One day, he said something about the "people who burst". I had to check my hearing, "Burst??" He said, "Yes, they burst and they put their bones in that museum."

Death is too much for him right now, but he has been trying to figure out how we get human skeletons for display so he's reasoned that they must have burst. He can be very matter-of-fact about it to the point where it's mildly upsetting. Like, if I tell Dynamo (my 24 month old) to be careful getting in the car, my 4yo will say, "Because you don't want him to fall? (yes). because he might hit his head? (yes). And then his skull might break? (uh, ok) And then would stop talking and you and Daddy would be sad."

His 24 month old brother also matches and ocassionally surpasses him in physical tasks. Dreamer (4yo) is not very physical and Dynamo (24 mo old) is extremely physical. So if I take them to feed the ducks, my 24 month old can out-throw my 4yo.

He's very mature for his age and simultaneously very innocent for his age. Also, sometimes he understands complex things better than simple things. At 3, he could find this tiny landmark on the horizon from wherever we were in town, but he couldn't find his shoes with verbal coaching.

Asynchronous dev is wild and I always find it so interesting how it presents in different kids.

isisjade

11-03-2005, 07:55 AM

[

loraxc

11-03-2005, 08:04 AM

Last week at Y-tots, BooBah pointed to the letter "A" on the floor and said, "A!" She was very excited and wanted to read the rest of the letters, too. The gym was full of people, but I saw no fewer than four adults just *staring* at BooBah, like she'd grown another little head right before their eyes.

I've told the story here, I think, about how another toddler at playgroup got into the foam letters I'd hidden away and was playing with them, causing my DD (then about 15 months, I think) to come up to him and start saying "H! H! H!" in a heartbroken fashion. (Yes, he was holding the H.) This was NOT a good playgroup moment for me. "She knows LETTERS?" someone said, in tones of astonished annoyance. I wanted to fall through the floor, and muttered something about her having picked up a few.

I have to admit that I now make a big effort (out of her hearing) to point out DD's weaker points (she's not very physically precocious at all, compared to many of her playgroup buddies) at playgroup. I know it's sort of a sad thing to do, but it seems fair somehow. And things are okay. My point actually is, I guess, that we have not been shunned, even though we still get comments at group--sometimes they sting/embarrass me a bit, but more often they don't.

Another site I post at posted an article about a "21-month-old who can READ" (parents had used that "Your Baby Can Read" program) yesterday. Great excitement and plenty of tsking. Anyway, it was fairly universally decided that the posters did not want a "really, really smart" kid-- just an average-smart one. I might feel affronted, except that I kind of feel the same way sometimes. :(

loraxc

11-03-2005, 09:15 AM

isisjade, we cross-posted...thanks. I am doing better at not worrying. The no-empathy thing (really; if I hurt myself or cry, DD looks at me with interest, but that's it) is still a bit hurtful/bothersome at times, but I suspect that's because MY feelings are kind of hurt, you know? :blush

luvmypoonchkie

11-03-2005, 09:21 AM

Another site I post at posted an article about a "21-month-old who can READ" (parents had used that "Your Baby Can Read" program) yesterday. Great excitement and plenty of tsking. Anyway, it was fairly universally decided that the posters did not want a "really, really smart" kid-- just an average-smart one. I might feel affronted, except that I kind of feel the same way sometimes. :(

That's too bad the poster was shunned, all parents should be able to come to these boards and recieve a warm welcome, without all the one-upping (sadly, it happens on most of these boards). However, learning to read using one of those programs doesn't make a child "really, really smart", just well trained and able to recognize sight words that have been drilled in. Here's a site that promotes another similiar program (uses videos instead of flashcards) that has had great success teaching babies with Downs syndrome how to read.

http://www.loveandlearning.com/

I'm not trying to justify the behavior, but maybe the posters were just reacting to the method used.

On another note, am I the only one here who isn't shameful of my son(whether he's displaying how smart he is, funny he is or has displayed kindness to another child or adult)? Is there something wrong with me because I don't curl up in a corner every time my son does something that the other kids "aren't doing yet" for fear of some sort of rejection? Is there something wrong with me for taking a little delight when my son impresses someone? I love the fact that he can read, I don't hide it. I love the fact that he loves to draw and paint and is really creative, I made him a blog to share with our friends and family. Where do you all find these women who bawlk and gasp at a baby who can identify letters? The women in the playgroups I attended were always too caught up in talking to eachother that they were having enough trouble keeping tabs on what thier own kid was up to to even notice what other kids were doing. I don't like to make other moms feel uncomfortable, and I don't "brag" or even mention things unless the other person brings it up or it's obvious, but my son is who he is, if another mom is going to "reject" me because of my THREE year olds intelligence, then quite frankly I don't need them for a friend. Maybe I'm just extra blessed to have a great network of moms, with a great bunch of kids where we all really appreciate and delight in the eachothers children's strengths, talents and achievements.

Jenn

lckrause

11-03-2005, 10:15 AM

Wow, I go to bed early and you guys go crazy posting. :lol I have a ton to respond to so sorry if this is disjointed.

Tracy, welcome! It sounds like you've found the right thread. :) We are a small but friendly group. Your son sounds like a very cool little guy. I'm sorry about the bad teacher last year, and I hope that this year his school goes better.

Rynna, while I'm thinking of it, did you ever get that Yahoo group stuff sorted?

Your kids are adorable, btw!

Thanks, so are yours! :D

Yes. I have had the same concerns. The symptoms of aspergers so often fit the symptoms of gifted that it is hard to know what the deal is...

I have often wondered if Hollis is somewhere on that spectrum. He really does display A LOT of Asperger's characteristics, but of course some of those get mixed up with gifted characteristics as well. It's really confusing. We aren't in a position to get a diagnosis, anyway, so it's pretty much a moot point at this stage in the game (he turns 10 in December). I wish there was more research on high giftedness because I'm sure, being a condition of the brain, it must come with its own set of quirks.

What was scary was that about 10 minutes ago, she pointed to the 8 of hearts on my Solitaire screen and said, "eight!" Now, I'm just getting used to her pointing out letters in my books and when I type, but to see her point to the number 8 after having first been exposed to it a few hours earlier... well, it just freaks me out. Where's the "head spinning" smilie?! Is it weird that I find myself actually, honestly *afraid* of what the future holds?

I shall now offically welcome you to Hollisland, where the lines are short but very difficult to navigate. :lol Everything you've been writing about BooBah lately takes me back to his baby/toddler years. And yes, it was a bit scary! They are just so intense and needy at that age, then throw in the baby genius stuff and it can get overwhelming. Just think, though, that if you give her what she needs now, life will become easier in the future when she starts using those skills. I promise! :nut

Edited to add: I must have missed (happens easily) that you thought she had an Asperger's diagnosis....I wouldn't have been so laissez faire with my other comments had I known. I'm sorry.

Britishmum, I'm going to throw in my apologies here too. I didn't realize you had those concerns either. My advice would have been different had I known. :Hug

And he's also obsessed frequently with who is or isn't a vegetarian---and now when I open a can of tuna he says basically, "See I'm not saying anything about you eat that poor dead fish."

:lol That is so funny. What a smart little guy!

What if I'm wrong about the whole encouragement vs. pushing line, and I end up pushing too hard?

I really think if you are consciously aware of the line between encouragement and pushing, then it won't happen. Or at least if you did start to push, you'd recognize it and pull back. Honestly, Rynna, from the impression I get of you over this thread, I can't imagine you pushing too hard. Your kids are telling you what they want to do and you're providing it for them. I don't think you have anything to worry about in that regard and in fact I think you'd be doing them a disservice if you tried to hold them back from what they're currently doing. You're a great mom! :)

Now, if BooBah were still chewing on her toes going "Babababa" and you were assaulting her with the flashcards, that would be different. :wink But IMO you are doing just fine.

Then of course, there's the fact that I don't feel comfortable talking with parents of children BooBah's age. Last week at Y-tots, BooBah pointed to the letter "A" on the floor and said, "A!" She was very excited and wanted to read the rest of the letters, too. The gym was full of people, but I saw no fewer than four adults just *staring* at BooBah, like she'd grown another little head right before their eyes. Noone would talk to me after that. It felt awful.

I'm sorry you felt bad, Rynna. :hug I think most of us here have been in that position and it's no fun. Hollis used to do that exact same thing at baby gym. Our gymboree had one of those giant floor mats with the alphabet printed in a ring around the outside and the teachers used to call out letters and he'd run to them and stand on the right letter. The teachers were tickled by it but the other parents would just get freaked out. He also at that time (around 15 months?) had very good fine and gross motor coordination so he was generally better than the other kids at the normal baby gym stuff too. We sure didn't win any friends in that class--in fact, once we were at a park with a mom's group I belonged to, and I ran across the other parents from our baby gym class having a playgroup. They had invited EVERYONE from the class except for me. :o The looks on their faces were priceless and I'm sure mine was as well! Awkward much?

Oh loraxc, try not to worry. Those all sound very normal (for gifted) to me. In particular, do not worry about lack of empathy in a 21 mo old. I think 4-5 years is really the average for that to start to develop; I just read 6-7 to be able to put themselves in other's positions (although I'm sure we can all tell of many, many exceptions). Although SOME gifted kids show really early empathy, many do not.

I agree with isisjade. Nan showed empathy very early, but Hollis did not until fairly recently. He always had empathy for plants and animals, but people were/are a different matter. In fact, he still seems to be working on that at the age of almost 10. :o So that is something he is definitely late with.

Veering into a topic of my own now. I think we are starting to move away a bit from unschooling and more into very relaxed but more formal homeschooling. We were on the radical side of unschooling for a long time but I feel like it's not working for us as well at this point in time. :shrug Who knows, though, maybe things will be different next year. Right now though I feel like we're not really fitting into any particular "style" of homeschooling and it's weird. This is something I haven't felt comfortable bringing up in the homeschooling forum because I already know the responses I'd get if I said "So should my nine year old be doing chemistry or biology first? What do you think? And does anyone know where to get an Algebra 2 workbook?" :nut

Okay, I'll shut up now and let someone else talk. :lol

lckrause

11-03-2005, 10:24 AM

On another note, am I the only one here who isn't shameful of my son(whether he's displaying how smart he is, funny he is or has displayed kindness to another child or adult)? [...] Where do you all find these women who bawlk and gasp at a baby who can identify letters?

Hey Jenn, I don't know if anyone here is ashamed of their kids. I certainly wasn't. But it's tough to watch other people freak and shun you or your kid because he reads a sign at the baby gym or whatever. And in many circles, talking about your kid being ahead is seen as elitist. That is what people are reacting to, I think. I would say that if you haven't met anyone like that, you are lucky. It was a common theme when my kids were babies, and it's not like I fished for comments--just the opposite! I am naturally reserved with people I don't know well, so I wasn't out there talking up my kid.

What I've found is that as my kids get older, the comments have gotten much less snarky/horrified and more positive/amazed in a good way. Part of that might be because older kids all have something they are obviously good at, so parents of older kids don't feel so threatened if another kid is doing something their kid can't. That's my brilliant theory, anyway. :lol

loraxc

11-03-2005, 12:17 PM

Ooops--I don't think I explained the "Baby who can read" thing right. This was actually a fluff news article (you can see it here: http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/5216239/detail.html ). The link was posted on another messageboard. It wasn't that the parent of the reading child posted and got slammed; the general idea of "teaching" a baby to read (which I'm also mixed on, generally speaking) was slammed.

I actually thought the article was sort of unclear. I can't tell from it if the 21mo featured is doing sight-reading/ word recognition, which my DD does, or real reading, which my DD definitely does not do.

As for being "ashamed"...I wouldn't say I'm ashamed, but at times I am sheepish. It may be a personality thing. What some people might read as a pure compliment I might read as something a little more barbed. But DD is in a playgroup with very informed, AP, well-read moms; we spend lots of time talking about our kids, so she is noticed and remarked on. Also, we've gotten comments from my MIL as well as random strangers along the lines of "She's going to turn out weird" and "You must WORK with her a lot." Hard not to feel icky about those.

ChristaN

11-03-2005, 12:40 PM

Also, we've gotten comments from my MIL as well as random strangers along the lines of "She's going to turn out weird" and "You must WORK with her a lot." Hard not to feel icky about those.
This actually reminds me of a comment on a TV show that I was watching a month or so ago. It was something like a Law and Order :blush episode, but the comment that one of the characters made stuck with me. He said something like, 'There is a difference between being well trained and gifted.'

It really struck me. Yes, you can train a child to do things beyond their ultimite abilities and they may appear advanced for a while b/c they have had training that other children their age have not. However, those children will not continue to be advanced as time goes on. Gifted children are different though. It isn't something that the parent has done, it is who they are. The "you must work with her a lot" comment assumes that your child is a well trained little person, not that she has gifts. I think that it is a way of minimizing or making the other person feel better (i.e. -- my kid could do that too if I spent all of my time drilling him.)

I find it hard not to get defensive when we run into sitiuations like that. Also, I find that the parents of the well trained kids become very pushy and upset when other kids start catching up with their children. I don't want to live my life through my children. If they are gifted or not, they are themselves and their academic achievement reflects on themselves not the quality of my parenting.

isisjade

11-03-2005, 01:13 PM

[

isisjade

11-03-2005, 01:37 PM

lckrause

11-03-2005, 02:05 PM

Isisjade, I just noticed in your sig that your DS's bday is tomorrow! Happy birthday to him! :D

Also in regard to teaching children and to eilonwy's previous question about what we all were doing, I am about to start a math program with my DS, which we are giving to him for one of his birthday presents.

:lol You know you are in a gifted thread when a kid is so excited about math that he gets math books for a birthday present. Hollis asked for a chemistry set when he was 8 and last year I got him a set of DK science books. :thumb

Tracy

11-03-2005, 04:15 PM

well... the newest member, me..had a very mixed day at school today. I went to get ds and teacher asked me what was going on with our shadow because he had a ruff day. Basically interrupting her, not listening, climbing up the slide, throwing himself around, trying to get attention. She said that she thought something was going on there. And then she added, "it is not his intellect, he is brilliant, it is just the other behaviors."

sigh. I am trying like a dog to find him a shadow for school to help with the impulse stuff but she also said that she thinks the other kids are getting kind of scared of him because they don't know what to expect. Of course there are some kids who were laughing when he was climbing up the slide while I was there......which goes back to my Jim Carey in the house description. He will do a lot for a laugh.

anyway, have any of you had your DC evaluted? I have an appointment scheduled for Feb.

eilonwy

11-03-2005, 05:43 PM

Lisa-- Biology first, earth science & astronomy second, chemistry third and finally physics. :lol (Okay, I'm really into the classical model of education. :innocent). I'm also pretty sure that I've got an Algebra 2 textbook around here somewhere, but I'm not so sure about workbooks... I'll have to look tomorrow at my mom's. I've definately got some fun biology texts and loads of good chemistry stuff, which niether of my kids will be interested in for... well, I'm hoping at least 8 years. :lol

I don't think that I'm ashamed of what my kids can do, and I make an effort never to talk down about them or play up their faults (my mother always did this and it pissed me off something fierce). It's just that... well, I spent my whole life wishing that I was "normal" or "like other people," and having kids was, for me, one of those "make your life better" things. Part of the reason that I was so eager to have children was to prove that I could do things differently from the way that my mother did them, and that my kids could be, if not normal, enough like other people to get by. So when adults are staring at my baby like she's got extra eyeballs or something, I feel all creepy and miserable-- like I'm living part of my own childhood over again, a part that really sucked. It's just depressing for me. BeanBean is a bit older now, and while he's still on the petite side for his age, he's got an old face and he carries himself like an older child so he's got some things a bit easier. Of course it's shocking for adults to hear him rattle on about specific models of airplanes, but at his age it's "cute," rather than "scary." Whenever BooBah does something extraordinary, it tends to fall into the latter category. :(

Mike hid the kids' ToT candy on a high shelf. Using the climbing skills he learned from his sister, BeanBean constructed a pile of objects and retrieved it-- again. For the third morning in a row, I awakened to the sounds of two small children eating candy. :nut Why did Mike think that the kids *wouldn't* find a way to climb to anything that they could see?!

teachma

11-03-2005, 06:56 PM

:lol You know you are in a gifted thread when a kid is so excited about math that he gets math books for a birthday present. Hollis asked for a chemistry set when he was 8 and last year I got him a set of DK science books. :thumb

So funny, and so relatable! We pretty much only do books, cds (music) and recently computer games for gifts. The toys were never played with (at least not in any way like they were intended!) so we started begging our relatives to forgo them. We found the books were always used and loved.

teachma

11-03-2005, 07:02 PM

I don't think that I'm ashamed of what my kids can do, and I make an effort never to talk down about them or play up their faults (my mother always did this and it pissed me off something fierce).

Okay, I've been here before. I have definitely been guilty, in the past, of playing up ds's faults (and there truly are some big ones) because he used to get SO much attention from others for being so smart. At around 2.5 years old he deduced that he was pretty much the smartest kid of the people we knew and declared as much. I pretty much felt appalled that he was speaking in what seemed like an egotistical manner at such a young age, and at that point, I tried my hardest to begin playing up others's strengths so he could begin to see that other people are "smart" about different things, and that using big words and conversing comfortably with adults wasn't the only way to be smart. Is playing up the strengths of others as bad as playing up the faults of your own kids, I wonder? Because I think I still kind of do this.

isisjade

11-03-2005, 09:28 PM

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OTMomma

11-04-2005, 09:25 AM

I think there is a real balance to strive for with gifted kids to help them see themselves as equals to all people. My dh's mother told him throughout his childhood he was smarter than everyone else and when he had social problems that it was because others kids were less intelligent or that they were jealous. As a result he had the equivelent of a nervous breakdown at 15, when he found he wasn't actually perfect. His mother should have worked with him to help him develope some social skills to get along better with other kids, and though I think its good to tell a child they are smart, its not good to reinforce they are any better or worse than others. I try not to point out dd's faults too much (the mood swings are impossible to ignore), but I do point out when other children are doing things that are great, in a way to point out we all have special skills and all people are special. Not that I think she should be able to throw a ball 40 feet or whatever.

Peace,
Laura

ChristaN

11-04-2005, 09:40 AM

I really struggle with that -- telling my dd that she is different or just pretending that she isn't. I don't want to fall into what your MIL did where I make her feel different or better than others (I doubt that would happen w/ dd b/c she is not at all egotistical, more the opposite). However, I don't want to deny her feelings either.

Last night, I brought up something totally unrelated when I was tucking her into bed and it turned into a 45 minute conversation w/ her crying and asking why she couldn't have just been born "regular" b/c she thinks that she is "irregular." She feels that the only friend who understands her is a neighbor child who I, honestly, would rather she not rely on so much. The neighbor girl is her age, but emotionally very, very young (she acts about 4-5 and speaks like a very young child -- "me wan it" type of stuff).

Dd is aware that she is different than her peers but she doesn't understand why. I think that she is happy playing w/ this less socially and emotionally mature little girl b/c she has known her for years, feels safe with her, and can kind of run the show. She is also happy being around teenagers, but there is little in between that works for her. It is either young acting kids or much, much older kids. How do you explain to your child what it is that makes them different w/out telling them that they are more intellegent than others or using the loaded word "gifted?" I don't think that it would even help my dd understand herself to tell her that she is gifted since the school always tells them that everyone is gifted in some way.

I just ache for her b/c I clearly remember wanting to be "normal" as a child and teen myself. I felt like I wasn't normal, but I didn't understand why and I really believe that it had more to do with my emotional differences than anything as is the case for dd. It is so hard to be an old soul in a child's body.

OTMomma

11-04-2005, 11:46 AM

ChristaN- :hug to you and your dd! I think as a parent all we can really do is emphasize to our kids that we think that they awsome people (without any comparisons to others), and that we are glad they are our kids.

I'm sure your dd likes this other child so much because the other child just accepts her as is. Just a random thought, but maybe you could get her invovled in some sort of special olympics or something? Helping the other children? That way no one there is "normal" and some of the stygma of fitting in dissappears?

Peace,
Laura

mamaverdi

11-04-2005, 01:16 PM

I hear what you're saying Rynna. I have a friend who is a super genius. He is now a concert pianist, scratch golfer, owns a farm in northern california, owns his own oil company, and is a professor at Berkeley. His parents pushed him a lot, a lot. And I think he went to college when he was like 16. Eventually though, everything he didn't want just fell away whether his parents liked it or not. His own child doesn't sound nearly as smart as himself, but still smart. But he won't put him in with smart kids because of this.... I don't even know what I'm saying...I think my point is...my friend turned out really well, even though his parents did stuff he didn't like. Your children are probably going to turn out well even if you do some things they don't like. For now anyway though, it sounds like they are interested in what you are doing with them---you didn't say arbitrarily that you were going to teach them to read---they were genuinely interested.

I do see how it can be freaky---it definitely is around here at times---but the best I can offer is: you aren't alone and try not to let it get to the center of yourself where you are calm and know what is best for your child/ren.

mv

LeftField

11-04-2005, 03:47 PM

This thread is hard to keep up with! I really am reading, but it moves so fast that by the time I have a chance to post something, the conversation has rapidly gone off in another direction. :)

Veering into a topic of my own now. I think we are starting to move away a bit from unschooling and more into very relaxed but more formal homeschooling. We were on the radical side of unschooling for a long time but I feel like it's not working for us as well at this point in time. :shrug Who knows, though, maybe things will be different next year. Right now though I feel like we're not really fitting into any particular "style" of homeschooling and it's weird. This is something I haven't felt comfortable bringing up in the homeschooling forum because I already know the responses I'd get if I said "So should my nine year old be doing chemistry or biology first? What do you think? And does anyone know where to get an Algebra 2 workbook?" :nut

I found this interesting and I think that it's cool that you are going with whatever your kids need. Right now, we're unschooling (they're so young), but I'm not sure if we'll stick with it.

I have to say that I was really freaked out about the unschooling article where the kids didn't seem to do anything but hang out. The Mom was highly literate and one of the kids didn't read until 14, but they said he could follow video game instructions. I'm not flaming anyone who embraces the philosophy in the article, but it was just very outside of my personal comfort zone. I've said in the past that I don't care if my kids work up to their potential or not. And I still mean that. That whole, "She's wonderful, but doesn't work up to her potential." from teachers was a huge guilt-trip for me and simply meant that I wasn't doing what other people wanted me to do. But OTOH, I think it would kill me if my kids didn't read past video game instructions.

So, I find that I don't care so much if I'm breaking an unschooling rule here and there. I am still greatly attracted to the philosophy and it really works for my oldest so far. He tires us with his questions and his insatiable desire to learn things. Today, while reading, we got off on a coral reef tangent that led to this great interest in sea life and I thought, "Oh, gosh. I cannot take another obsession. I feel like I'm barely keeping my head above water with the other ones he has." But anyway, I believe we'll be providing a little direction here and there at some point. I am not committed to the unschooling philosophy long-term, just committed to what works for us.

Anyway, I appreciated what you wrote. I've always appreciated your perspective as an unschooling Mom to gifted kids, because sometimes I doubt our lack of instruction thing. I think that, if I did instruction and if my oldest was really receptive to it (he's not), he could be way past what he does now. He'd be reading for starters. He has a wonderful way with numbers that could be easily developed. But it's just not a good fit for us. I know to follow his cues, but sometimes I wonder if (Oh gosh, no one flame me for this) if his intellectual gifts are being neglected because I don't instruct him. But he is always in his head, so even if it's not the standard path, he's still using what he was given. He's just developing in a different way and that's Ok. But anyway, down the road, unschooling just may not continue to be a good fit for us, although I think we'll always be super-duper relaxed eclectic.

Sorry for a ramble. I did want to comment on this. Thanks for sharing what you're doing, Lisa.

eilonwy

11-04-2005, 07:57 PM

I've said in the past that I don't care if my kids work up to their potential or not. And I still mean that. That whole, "She's wonderful, but doesn't work up to her potential." from teachers was a huge guilt-trip for me and simply meant that I wasn't doing what other people wanted me to do. But OTOH, I think it would kill me if my kids didn't read past video game instructions.

The thing about this that gets to me is, some unschoolers-- even radical unschoolers-- would see this as neglect while others would say that it was perfectly reasonable for a child not to read more than video game instructions (which can be entirely pictoral) before they're 14 years old. If I hear one more person talk about how "John Holt says that it's very natural, especialy for boys, not to learn to read until they're 12 or older" I think I'll :Puke. :o It's outside of my comfort level, too. Seven, I can see, even eight with dyslexia but 12?!

...sometimes I doubt our lack of instruction thing. I think that, if I did instruction and if my oldest was really receptive to it (he's not), he could be way past what he does now. He'd be reading for starters. He has a wonderful way with numbers that could be easily developed. But it's just not a good fit for us. I know to follow his cues, but sometimes I wonder if (Oh gosh, no one flame me for this) if his intellectual gifts are being neglected because I don't instruct him.

It's fascinating, it seems to me that no matter what you decide to do in terms of homeschooling, with a gifted child you're probably going to second guess yourself. I think that a lot of homeschooling parents probably second guess their decision to unschool or school ecclectically/do unit studies/use a classical curriculum/etc, especially in the early days when it's hard to see what's happening in the long term.

Even though I worry sometimes that we're doing too much formal instruction, I have to stop and take stock: what is it that I want for my kids? How do I think that can most efficiently and effectively be achieved? How are my kids doing, do they seem stressed out or bored? Are they happy, do they look forward to educational exercises, or do they run and hide? Overall, when I look at my answers, I think that I've made the right decision. If the answers change, I'll reconsider.

Lisa, I just wanted to say that I think it's very brave of you to post, here at MDC, that you're moving away from unschooling after having done it for so long. :D You're like, breaking the rules! :lol Go you! :D

OTMomma

11-05-2005, 07:47 AM

I am not committed to the unschooling philosophy long-term, just committed to what works for us.

I think that, if I did instruction and if my oldest was really receptive to it (he's not), he could be way past what he does now. He'd be reading for starters. He has a wonderful way with numbers that could be easily developed. But it's just not a good fit for us. I know to follow his cues, but sometimes I wonder if (Oh gosh, no one flame me for this) if his intellectual gifts are being neglected because I don't instruct him. But he is always in his head, so even if it's not the standard path, he's still using what he was given.

Leftfield, if you are looking for ideas, your son might enjoy some Montissori style games that are "self correcting", after you briefly show him what it is, he can play the games over and over until he teaches himself skills like math and reading. That way you get away from the instructing him thing. I was drawn to unschooling, but am finding that having Montissori activities around is good, and my child can choose what of them she wants to do, so its still child directed learing.

And I also want to say- Good for you Lisa for being able to change directions to find something that works for you and your kids. A philosophy isn't worth anything if its not working for you.

Peace,
Laura

LeftField

11-05-2005, 01:45 PM

It's fascinating, it seems to me that no matter what you decide to do in terms of homeschooling, with a gifted child you're probably going to second guess yourself. I think that a lot of homeschooling parents probably second guess their decision to unschool or school ecclectically/do unit studies/use a classical curriculum/etc, especially in the early days when it's hard to see what's happening in the long term.

Yeah, you're probably right. :)

Even though I worry sometimes that we're doing too much formal instruction, I have to stop and take stock: what is it that I want for my kids? How do I think that can most efficiently and effectively be achieved? How are my kids doing, do they seem stressed out or bored? Are they happy, do they look forward to educational exercises, or do they run and hide? Overall, when I look at my answers, I think that I've made the right decision. If the answers change, I'll reconsider.

If this is what works for your family and your kids are engaged and happy, then I think that's great. I have a Miquon Math book/workbook and I've tried, periodically, to test the waters and see if ds1/Dreamer's receptive to instruction. This is an example of what happened about 6 months ago. He did a few exercises in the orange book of counting the items and writing the appropriate numeral down. Then, he got bored and started drawing his own items. We've had connecting math rods since he was 18 or 24 months. I have, periodically, tried to introduce a "game", but he would rather build skyscrapers with them. Mentally, he's capable, but he's not willing. If I had a child that was eating that up, I would definitely follow it up with more of what he loved/more instruction. It's going to be different for every family. I am continually amazed at how incredibly different gifted kids are from each other.

LeftField

11-05-2005, 01:53 PM

Leftfield, if you are looking for ideas, your son might enjoy some Montisorri style games that are "self correcting", after you briefly show him what it is, he can play the games over and over until he teaches himself skills like math and reading. That way you get away from the instructing him thing. I was drawn to unschooling, but am finding that having Montissori activities around is good, and my child can choose what of them she wants to do, so its still child directed learing.

Sure, I'm open to ideas. I am completely unfamiliar with those self-correcting games, so I need to go google them or something. We ruled out Montessori programs a while back, because ds1/Dreamer doesn't like to use items for their intended purpose. I don't think anything is used for its intended purpose in our house. :lol But I've ordered from the Michael Olaf Montessori catalog in the past. They have some great stuff.

Do you know of any good websites that have these games? He adds and subtracts in his head well, but I'm not sure of what he knows past that. He knows letter sounds and can sound out basic cvc words, but he seems to do better with whole word memorization.

off to google...

teachma

11-05-2005, 01:54 PM

Mentally, he's capable, but he's not willing. If I had a child that was eating that up, I would definitely follow it up with more of what he loved/more instruction. It's going to be different for every family. I am continually amazed at how incredibly different gifted kids are from each other.

This has been my experience with ds, same as yours! Of course, I think what made matters worse for us is that I am a teacher by profession. So I do have, perhaps, more of an interest in teaching my kids (gifted or not) than many parents, and I also have a pretty formal style of doing so...I can't really help that, after so many years of practice! At an early age, ds stated that although I am a teacher, I am not HIS teacher, and he pretty much refused to learn from me. Here and there, he gave me glimpses of what he was capable of doing (like reading the word MAGNETIC off the box of his Magnetix a year ago) and he has always enjoyed oral math story problems (because I make up funny ones) but other than that, he refused to do "work" with me. So I quit. And when he started kindergarten this September, for whatever reason, he totally clicked with his teacher, became super-inspired to read, write and do math, and he's soaring. I am so glad I never intended to homeschool because I think he learns so much better (academic stuff, that is) from someone else! Yep, they're all so different!

lckrause

11-05-2005, 02:35 PM

Rynna, Laura, and LeftField, thanks for the support with regards to our homeschooling decisions. :) I know this is what's best for Hollis right now, because he has lost that aimlessness he had for the past year or so. Overall he seems much more cheerful with a little something formal to do each day. I think before he was just getting lost within himself, if that makes any sense. Like his brain was going around in the same circles over and over again. A little outside direction seems to have gotten him back on track and back to his normal creative and curious self. Unschooling did work awesome for us for years, so I am not knocking it at all. But I think maybe with some kids, in some circumstances, and at some times, it might not always be the best thing. I never really believed that before--I just thought any malaise or lulls or whatever would pass, and that people were not giving their kids a chance to work it out themselves. I'm not sure what to think now. I guess I could have waited even longer to see what happened but that felt like a really bad decision to me. :confused:

With Nan I'm pretty sure she'd be happy either way--unschooling or doing more formal work. Some weeks I do sit down with her and we do her workbooks and stuff, and other weeks we skip it. Either way it seems to make no difference in her mood or self-esteem. So she is sort of half-unschooling. :lol A term most unschoolers would likely not approve of! :wink Anyway, she has her dance, gymnastics, pottery, etc and that's really where she invests most of her energies, so she's in a different sort of situation than her brother.

One thing that is sweet is that Hollis has been setting up games in the morning and saying "I can't wait until Annika wakes up so we can play this together!" That's something he didn't do before--he would just start playing, and she'd join him when she got up, but he wasn't setting things up special for her like he has been lately. He's also been calling her "Annie" as a nickname--so cute--and they've been having a blast together listening to me read the Lemony Snicket books and then incorporating the characters into their play afterwards. It's almost like he has broken out of a shell (corny, I know). Then other times, tho