MIL wants us to move to PGH, why do you live there?

[yellowboot]

HI Ladies,

My husband and I are in the midst of figuring out where to "settle down." We both love the Portland/Seattle area and were starting to plan a move out that way, until the holidays started settling in (all of our family is in the NJ/PA area).

My MIL has been strategically sending out the "move to Pittsburgh vibe" for quite some time now. Over Thanksgiving she just happended to leave a Pittsburgh Parenting (or something like that) mag. on my coffee table. I have to say I was impressed. So it finally got me thinking that maybe we could move there. But first I thought I would pick some of your brains about the "goods" on PGH.
here goes:

1. What do you like best about the city/surrounding area
2. Are their good Alternative/Charter/private schools, do any of you know much about the Waldorf School?
3. What's considered the most holistic/alternative/AP friendly area (Allegany, Butler,Beaver, Westmorland Co.?)
4. Beaver Falls seems cute, what's that area like
5. Is thier much in the way of organic farms/stands
6. Is it as conservative as other parts of the state?

I think that should do it.
I REALLY appreciate any and all responses, hearing "real stories" makes such a difference.

Thanks again
Jill

[Starling]

Hi Jill,

I love Pittsburgh:love

We live here because I went to school here and just stayed. (But I am originally from Pennsylvania.)

What I like best are the many little things that add up to this: The opportunities of a city plus the feel of a small town.

My DS is a toddler, so I don't have first-hand experience with the schools here, but my friends and neighbors are pleased with the city schools. One friend did have her child in Waldorf school and she liked it a lot. There are a lot of private and religious schools in the area, also a lot of organized homeschoolers.

For alternative/holistic/AP-Friendly, I would suggest the city, not the suburbs! Here in town we have an organic foods co-op, AP friendly health providers, parks, playgrounds, museums, libraries, public transportation, and many individuals who make natural parenting decisions. In the 'burbs, you'll find a lot of strip malls and people who depend on their SUVs to get them to the next activity. :rolleyes:

We have a Whole Foods Market in the city, and (as mentioned above) a co-op grocery with a variety of organic produce and a vegetarian cafe. There is also an area close to downtown called The Strip District where you can get fresh produce (and meat and seafood if you're not vegetarian) and a decent variety of ethnic foods from independant vendors. There are farmers markets sponsored by the city May through November.

Well, yeah, it is a pretty conservative area. Pittsburgh itself is staunchly Democrat, but it is socially conservative. However, there are active political groups around here. What's your area of interest? We've got LLL (of course) also NARAL and NOW and a few environmental groups I'm not as familiar with. There are ethnic pride groups and a healthy gay/lesbian community. Neighborhood pride is a big thing here, so there are a lot of grass-roots groups working for disadvantaged people in specific parts of the city. We also have a lot of artists, and art often overlaps into polital action. :hippie

Other advantages? Lovely scenery around here. (Well, you do have to go into the country for that, mostly) Green rolling hills in spring and summer, and foliage bursting with yellows and oranges in the fall. Winter brings snow just right for building snowmen and a chance to try out the new skating rink downtown.

But, with all that said, the biggest reason we're here is because we have family nearby. If you want to be near your MIL, that is the best reason to come to Pittsburgh.

Good luck with your decision.

--Starling

[yellowboot]

Starling,

What a great response, just the kind of stuff I was looking for.

I'm still not exactly sure which parts of the "city" are good to live in, and what is considered the city? I've been to Oakland once, is that considered the city. Is city living more expensive? Can you live in the city and have a decent yard?

I too think I would like to live in the city, the more the diversity, the better IMO. And I do want to be able to walk places, not rely on auto.

thanks again for the info.
Maybe I'll see ya in PGH some day.:)

Jill

[Starling]

Hi Jill,

Yeah, Oakland is right in the middle of the city. :D

I don't think city living is more expensive. It probably depends on a number of variables like commuting, the size of the house you want, etc.

What neighborhood to choose? There are so many good ones, but I'm partial to anything in the East End.

Yards in the city are typically small, however, there are many people who do have large yards. Gardening is a big pursuit around here. (I'm not into it, so didn't think to mention it before, but there is a great greenhouse and a few active gardening societies in the area.)

I don't have a link to a good map right now, but you can probably track one down that would show you city boundaries and where the neighborhoods are.

Good luck with your move


:Peace

--Starling

[LEmama]

We love Pgh, too! Real estate is very affordable in many neighborhoods. You could easily find a three-story victorian in a nice area for under 90,000. Our house was under 40,000! Of course, it is more like a 'cottage!' We live and are partial to the east end, too. Almost any of our destinations can be reached in 15 minutes - downtown, museums, libraries, universities, sports/music arenas, zoo, natural foods store, hiking. Pittsburgh has a few large, really lovely city parks. There are a few good alternative elementary schools, but not enough in my opinion. The public school system has several 'magnet' schools that are excellent. Each school has a special emphasis and students from all over the city apply via lottery. Our older son attends the montessori magnet public school, and we are very happy with it. Best wishes to you!

[EnviroBecca]

I came to Pittsburgh for college 11 years ago and have lived here ever since, loving every moment.

Starling said much of what I would've about city over suburbs, political action, and beautiful seasons. I do want to add that, as far as scenery goes, I think Pittsburgh's architecture combined with the fact that it's a city climbing mountains makes for some beautiful scenes in the city as well!

1. What do you like best about the city/surrounding area Good walkability and public transit. Vibrant neighborhoods with lots of character and pleasant shops and restaurants. Solid, beautiful buildings with a great sense of history. Excellent museums and libraries. Friendly people for the most part--like 75% of bus drivers say "thank you" to every passenger! Lots of white ethnic diversity--not that there aren't nonwhites (the only racial group under-represented here is Latino), but the whites here have more sense of their cultural roots than people in many other American cities. Liberal churches that are serious about Christian outreach and acceptance of diversity. Wonderful independent public radio station (WYEP). Fabulous conventional healthcare and decent availability of alternative medicine. Astonishing views and wonderful nooks and crannies created by the topography. Beautiful snow in winter, flowers in spring, green overgrown lushness in summer, and brilliant leaves in autumn.

I'm talking about the city and the nearest edge communities here--not the suburbs, which I avoid as much as possible. Sprawl is not as bad here as in other parts of the country, but it's bad, and the topography makes for horrible traffic situations, particularly if you're a pedestrian. Suburbs have little to recommend them unless you need something from a big chain store that has no city locations.

2. Are their good Alternative/Charter/private schools, do any of you know much about the Waldorf School? I hear good things about various private schools, not so much about charter schools which seem mostly to be struggling to achieve basic competence. Most families I know like the Pittsburgh public schools, esp. magnet schools.

3. What's considered the most holistic/alternative/AP friendly area (Allegany, Butler,Beaver, Westmorland Co.?) Definitely the city, esp. East End, much more than any outlying area.

4. Beaver Falls seems cute, what's that area like I've never been there. Popular belief in the East End is that all of Beaver County is a conservative wasteland comparable to Alabama, but I have no idea how true that is. :D

5. Is thier much in the way of organic farms/stands In addition to the co-op and farmers' markets previously mentioned, there are at least 5 Community Supported Agriculture farms in the area: You buy a share and get a crate of organic produce every week during the growing season. Also, the dominant supermarket chain is adding more organic offerings every couple of months.

6. Is it as conservative as other parts of the state? No! Pittsburgh is similar to Philadelphia in sociopolitical climate, only without the Mafia influence--we have an entrenched elite, influential Catholics with a moral agenda, and a lot of people who favor the status quo because it's comforting, but the overall climate is fairly enlightened, with a lot of effort toward overcoming prejudices. Certainly it's not as conservative as the middle part of the state.

I also live in the East End (Squirrel Hill) and recommend it highly! SqHill is pricey and yards aren't very big, but it can't be beat for car-free access to everything and stimulating urban environment without inner-city chaos. Better neighborhoods for affordability and yard size are Highland Park, Greenfield, and Regent Square. Outside the East End, some nice neighborhoods are Brighton Heights (north) and Brookline and Mt. Washington (south). When I say "city" I mean "within the city limits of Pittsburgh"--unlike many other cities, Pittsburgh has not expanded to include the whole surrounding area, so nearly all the land within the city limits is built-up and the city-like atmosphere extends for a couple of miles outside the city limits. Some of the edgevilles have most of the advantages of the city with lower taxes; however, some of them have very poor public schools, so do your research carefully if you want to live in an edgeville and aren't 100% certain your kids will be going to private school.

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

I'm not much of a city dweller, but thought I'd share a few thoughts I had. I live in a college town. There's a lot of them in Western PA, too. I myself prefer to live well outside the city and take advantage of what it has to offer. Having a big yard and a little house somewhere more relaxed and quiet. Probably working in my neighborhood or community, rather than in Pittsburgh. Living in a quiet more rural area with the city within half an hour to 45 min driving distance is my ideal, so I think we differ on that.

I grew up in Butler county. My extended family all live in allegheny county. I moved to Virginia for 2 years thinking I wanted to get out of here, but then I just missed it so much I realized the Pittsburgh area was where I wanted to be. We now live in Mercer county, a little farther out than I'd like, but this is where the job market took me.

I find the taxes, especially the property taxes, are too high in allegheny county and in the city of Pittsburgh, but perhaps that's a reasonable trade off if you really like city living and do not like driving. Sales tax is also 7% in allegheny county, compared to 6% elsewhere.

However, Pittsburgh really doesn't have the nightmarish sort of rush hours you find in some other cities. For access to the city and reasonable drive times you just can't beat living in Butler county or anywhere with easy access to 79 & 279. I think Beaver county is along that same route as well. I commuted to school for 4 years from Butler county. It took my 35-45 minutes to get home from class (about 35 miles), where it took my friend the same amount of time and she lived in Bloomfield in the city.

The big downside of that, though, is parking rates are little high and they just did raise the bus rates again, so that's another negative.

Guess it depends on where you'd be working and commuting to and from, though. If you aren't going to be in the city everyday then the expense is of course less of a concern. Cost of living in the city is definitely higher, but probably a bargin compared to a lot of metropolitian areas. If you take advantage of the things that you can only do in the city on a daily/weekly basis than it is probably well worth the expense.

As far as conservative, I would say it is a conservative region. What that means to me doesn't make it a bad thing in my mind. Living in southwest Virginia just wasn't the place for me. I found that state's philosophies too radical, too intrusive. People in this area are proud of their heritage, they like their privacy, and are well informed and educated. IMO what that means in regards to where I used to live is that I found people in VA were just too willing to give up rights, give up privacy and just accept whatever the government told them was good for them. People here seem to question more and not follow blindly. They're down to earth and friendly, too. Not sure what your defintition might be, or what you're looking for, but that's my take on it and why I love it here.

[mirlee]

First, I want to agree with just about everything everyother 'Burgh mom has said. Pittsburgh is a great place to be. Housing is certainly affordable, there are loads of cultural and civic events, musuems, great shopping, we are smack dab in the middle between Chicago, NYC, DC, and Buffalo and Cleveland is just a hop away.

I live just outside the city in an area called Forest Hills, just a little past the East End. It is a small community that is very family friendly. We have community parties for Easter and the 4th. In January there will be a gathering of old Christmas trees and a community bonfire will be held. Not a completely environmental thing to do, but it is a chance to see your neighbors. The Hills are full of kids. On the plus side, our taxes are only 1 1/2 % as opposed to Pittsburgh's 3% and you still aren't far from anything. The downside is our school district stinks. Most people send their kids to private or parochial school.

All in all, I would say anywhere in the general vicinity is nice. Oh, I almost forgot to mention free movies in the parks on Sundays and Wednesdays in the Summer, July's Bach, Beethoven and Brunch Series (also free), and this year we had a weekend of free admission to the museums and the zoo.

Hope to see you soon! ;}

BTW, there is also a great Pittsburgh mom's group.

Mir

[kel]

Hi - another Pittsburgh mom checking in.

We live right in the city, too, on the South Side. I have a lot of friends in the neighborhood (all of whom unschool or homeschool like we do), the Waldorf school is right by our house; the library, cafes, theatres, shopping, swimming pools, etc. are all within a 10 min. walk for us, and housing here is very affordable. It isn't nearly as green here as it is on the east side, it's more urban, but you still have all the cool old architecture and it is greener up in the slopes and people tend to have bigger yards up there. But it's a really great community in most other ways - lots of artists, including an artist's cooperative, and studios around here. Many vegetarian places to eat, and a farmers market most of the year.

To me, Squirrel Hill would be ideal to live, but it's much pricier there. Highland Park, Morningside, Regent Square, Point Breeze, etc. (all east side) are beautiful and green with some very affordable housing, but not all of those neighborhoods have the same sort of little community where you can walk anywhere you'd need to go - as say Squirrel Hill or the South Side or Shadyside (Shadyside is lovely, but VERY expensive). You also have to be careful because some of the nice areas on the east side which are more affordable blend into not so nice areas - but that's true anywhere.

I grew up in Alaska, so we're country folk in the city right now - we DO plan to move back out to the woods in the next couple years. But I have to say we think Pittsburgh is a great city to live, and a great city to have kids in - there is just SO MUCH to do here! I've lived in Seattle for years, too, and although I often miss the more liberal energy of the west coast - I have to say Pgh. is a MUCH more liveable city than Seattle is now. Housing and rent in Seattle and everywhere in that area is astronomical, traffic is HORRIBLE, and there is a much snobbier feel to the city (and I did like many things about Seattle!, but it's just not nearly as nice of a place to live in my opinion).

Anyway, there is a great homeschooling community here, the Waldorf school, and an offshoot of the Waldorf school - which I've heard much better things about actually is a semi-new school called River Valley.

You might also be interested in joining Pittsburgh Mamas Network which is a natural parenting style e-group that currently has around 60 members who would have lots of thoughts/advice for you. Here's the link -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PghMamasNetwork/
Just say you're considering moving here.

As far as living outside of the city goes, I would avoid west of the city (which I believe is where Beaver is) - up around Slippery Rock is a nice area with some more liberal folks. But that's a good 45 min. at least to Pgh, and for the most part Pgh. is a fairly progressive city in a conservative and quite religious state.

Good luck and looking forward to maybe meeting you soon!
xo - Kelly

[yellowboot]

Hi ladies
I just wanted to add a quick thank you to all of your great replies, the city sounds just up our alley!!

Kel- we use to live in AK too, Anchorage to be exact, I enjoyed it there, but too far from family.

I've been doing some research on my own and MIL has been sending us housing information. It looks like we may be moving there by Autumn

My biggest concern was schooling/homeschooling community. Right now we homeschool but I don't know how long we will do that. Some days I think many years and other days I don't. It's great to hear that the city has such good schools both public and private.

I will be visiting there in Feb and hope to check out some of the city Squirrel Hill, Highland PArk, etc. . . and maybe the schools some of you mentioned. I'm esp. interested in the new school River Valley, if anyone has a# that I could call I'd appreciate it

Thanks again for all your information
Hope to make some new friends when I move
Jill:)

[kel]

Here's River Valley's address: (I'm sure they list the ph. #, too)

http://www.rivervalleyschool.net/about.htm

[jenP]

I have been living in Greenfield for 10 years, and just had a baby last June. I love Greenfield! In fact, before DD came we looked to buy a little bigger house and after 6 months of looking all over the east end and east 'burbs, I didn't find anything I would have given my house in even trade for, let alone paid the asking price. Why is Greenfield so great? For starters, houses cost FAR less than in Sqirrell Hill but have larger yards (not LARGE yards, it is still the city, but larger than most in Sq Hill or Regent Sq). I can walk to so many things... hairdresser, veterinarian, pizza, ice cream, and sub shops, pediatrician, drugstore, bank, video rental, state store, grocery store, bus stops, swimming pool, parks, churches and synagogues... and yet Greenfield isn't a shopping destination for those outside the neighborhood so parking is never a problem and I think there isn't as much litter. Our nearest "bad" neighborhood is Hazelwood, which in the city's annual crime report is repeatedly the best of all the "bad" neighborhoods. My kid isn't in school yet, but it seems everyone speaks well of Minadeo elementary which is the one I'm in the district for. (Depending on where you live in Greenfield there's also Greenfield elementary, I haven't heard good or bad on that one.)
And it takes only minutes (drive time - longer if you take the bus) to get to downtown, the South Side, Oakland, Squirrell Hill, and just a few minutes more to get to the suburban malls.
The only drawback to Greenfield is that it is not real convenient to the Food Co-op, takes me about 15 minutes to drive there and that is my primary grocery store. A shame, 'cause I'm blocks from Giant Eagle but they stock so much synth-food crap that there's not much room for any natural whole organic foods; still in a pinch I can pick up a few things there.
DH and I grew up in the area and just sort of naturally drifted to the city, where we met. There are other areas and cities that sound like they could be really great places to live, but all our family is close so we've never really looked into researching the best place in the country to move. So it's not like we picked Pittsburgh because we thought it's the greatest; we just happened to be here and we've been quite happy.
I've found a number of like-minded moms through the co-op, LLL, and the toy lending library as well as this very forum, where I met a cool chick with a daughter the same age, we get together about every week IRL.
Oh and Beaver Falls... isn't there a nuclear reactor up there?

Good Luck with your move! Look me up if you move to Greenfield.

Jen

[Meiri]

If you're still pondering this area, don't move to Beaver County.

There was just an article in the paper Sunday about the Beaver County Children and Youth Services taking a woman's newborn from her and not giving a reason even at the mandatory court hearing(as required by law). They also did not permit her any support in the courtroom from a relative(as required by law). From the tone of the article their disregard of the laws and not following them when taking children is not new, but nothing is being done either.:(

The mom isn't perfect, has one child in the system, but this time around had done everything demanded of her by CYS, was clean, has an apartment with crib and all that crap, yet they took her baby anyway. She had been planning to breastfeed too.:(

[MaryAnnCalderone]

I live in the Beaver County area and can tell you all about Beaver Falls. Grew up in Chippewa which is a suburb of Beaver Falls.

It is a shame about the girl who had her child taken away. The CYS seems to always jump right in and do more damage in some cases and allows horrible things to happen thorugh inactivity in others.

I currently live in Ambridge which is right on the edge of Allegheny county.

I don't think I could live somewhere without hills and bridges.

PM me if you want more information.

[mirlee]

:OT

I put this as OT this doesn't relate to living in the 'burgh., just the last two posts.

I was outraged when I read that story in the paper! It was as if the mother had no rights. They had no proof of anything. I think that the laws really need to be examined and new ones written so that CYS is accountable to provide proof. I get way to angry when I hear stories like this.

[bananasmom]

I grew up in Butler County. When we got married, I was teaching in Butler, and my husband worked (still works) in the South Hills. We live in a suburb north of the city, because it was halfway. (I drive a van, not an SUV :) )

I think it is very challenging to maintain a natural lifestyle in any of the burbs. It can surely be done, however you have to work pretty hard at it. Internet shopping, etc. Someone mentioned the organic farm co-ops... that helps a lot. I think if you are in the city, or outside the burbs, it would be easiest.

I skimmed over the things that the other moms wrote, and hope I don't repeat any of them, I'll just try to add to what they wrote.

1. What do you like best about the city/surrounding area
I love that we have such beautiful changes of season.
Great culture and pro sports (not that we are into it, but some are).
Cost of living is great.
People are friendly.
We are withing 7 hours of some major cities (Buffalo/Niagara, Washington DC, Philly, Cleveland, NYC), and just a couple more to vacation sites like Myrtle Beach.

2. Are their good Alternative/Charter/private schools, do any of you know much about the Waldorf School?
I don't know anything about that. I was a public school teacher, so my private school knowledge is really limited.

3. What's considered the most holistic/alternative/AP friendly area (Allegany, Butler,Beaver, Westmorland Co.?)
I don't know that any of the areas are unfriendly, but I think the strongholds are in the farm areas in those surrounding counties and in the city. I've worn Ana in my slings for 10 months, and I've NEVER seen another person with a sling!!! Odd (probably because I'm in the burbs). You see a Bjorn here or there, but I see way too many kids screaming in strollers and buckets, if you ask me.

4. Beaver Falls seems cute, what's that area like
My mom (a 4-H leader in Butler) tells me that there are some really super active homeschoolers in Beaver. Many of them use 4-H as a way to supplement their education.

6. Is it as conservative as other parts of the state?
No, not as much... but still pretty conservative.

HTH!

[yellowboot]

Hi to all
Thanks so much for giving me your thoughts on pgh, it has really helped with our decsion to move there. We visited the area in mid Feb and found a few areas that we liked, Sq Hill, Regent square/edgewood, Highland Park, and South Side. Now just to find that "perfect" house with the "perfect Pricetag" attached. One can always dream, right?

Looking forward to meeting some new friends soon.

Peace and Blessings
Jill:)

[mirlee]

Be sure to let us know when you get here! We should all get together. Frick Park Playground is always a cool spot.