What's up w/ men and football!?

[Sneezykids]

and golf and baseball and basketball and Nascar?
My dh is so addicted to sports. He plays golf 2-3 times a month in the summer and watches anything that has anything to do with sports on TV. UGH! Are sports really that great? I don't get it, I don't understand it and I don't think I want to! All I know is when he is zoned into an event, his eyes glaze over and it's very hard for me and my kids to get his attention. I feel like bonking him on the head with his 4 iron!!
:LOL

[Doodlebugsmom]

Well, I'm not a man, but I love football and tennis. We regularly watch those sports on TV. Fortunately, my dh isn't one who watches any sport that's on. We are only interested in those two.

[FuelJetA]

It's a competition thing AND more importantly perhaps they have been conditioned to watch them. They tried to suck me in, but I have too short of an attention span. :)

Television rots your brain! :LOL

[Sneezykids]

<Television rots your brain! >

Fueljet..I concur with that statement, esp ESPN! I have asked dh about it all, I mean, I just don't get it, all the competition, what is the POINT?!

I do believe he has been conditioned. Or, perhaps a better word is brainwashed. All that time watching a football game is time wasted IMO. It's nice out honey, I'm going outside to have a life, buh bye. :::heavy sarcasm::: (I'm not bitter, just tired of having two tv's going and one of them paused on TIVO)

[musicman]

Are sports really that great? I don't get it, I don't understand it and I don't think I want to!

No, sports are not really that great. I don't get it either.
I used to be obsessed with sports, and rankings, and statistics and scores, and titles and ALLLLL that crap....

Then, quite frankly, my mind went through the cosmic blender and I came out the other side quite happy to bask in my music and live in an illuminating way.

Forgive my opinion to anyone who believes otherwise, but... sports are a waste of time. Life itself is the great game to be played. If you want exercise, go for a walk. If you want camaraderie, join a band. If you want the heady intoxication of a public spectacle, try performance art.

What's up with men and football? It's simple enough. Some guys just like to play with balls... :LOL

[FuelJetA]

No, sports are not really that great. I don't get it either.
I used to be obsessed with sports, and rankings, and statistics and scores, and titles and ALLLLL that crap....

Then, quite frankly, my mind went through the cosmic blender and I came out the other side quite happy to bask in my music and live in an illuminating way.

Forgive my opinion to anyone who believes otherwise, but... sports are a waste of time. Life itself is the great game to be played. If you want exercise, go for a walk. If you want camaraderie, join a band. If you want the heady intoxication of a public spectacle, try performance art.

What's up with men and football? It's simple enough. Some guys just like to play with balls... :LOL


AGREE ENTIRELY! WASTE OF TIME! :thumb

[FuelJetA]

I have actually developed a bit of a conspiracy theory surrounding pro sports and it goes something like this...

The typical fan is SO very wrapped up in his sport that the government can nearly write off this demographic as protestors or supporters in any given situation. Interestingly much of the legislative action happens during late football season. It's nice to have an influential mass of people wrapped like zombies while the legislature does whatever they choose. The sports media is so influential it's scary.

I was once at a Nine Inch Nails concert and I saw the influence that Trent had over the crowd. He could have easily insighted a huge riot...well that's nothing. God forbid the NFL go on strike. Men might start to think and realize what is actually going on around them. Almost ever man I have ever met that watched sports regularly felt little inclination or held little opinion on controversial issues and tended to follow the 'pack' mentality. By contrast, the opposite is true, those who did not watch seemed more opinionated and more educated. I would call them - LESS NUMB.

There is not one day when there are no professional sports on television. Not ONE day. One season meets the next so seemlessly that one could spend almost an indefinite amount of time watching sports. It nears addiction.

If you changed the channel and watched pornography instead of sports but never changed the watching habit, it would be grounds for an intervention and treatable by counseling. Men eventually must ask themselves 'when is enough going to be enough' because the sports will never end, but the watchers life certainly suffers dramatically.

[Photar]

Why whatch sports when you can do them?

[FuelJetA]

Because, silly, that takes effort. :rolleyes

:D

[Sneezykids]

Well dh does play golf and is basically skilled at whatever he does (rollerhockey, skiing, waterski, tennis, etc)
which reminds me of HOW we ended up together!! We were dating and he was invited from his pals at work to play a little backyard football. I said lets not go, it was cold out and we can watch the Lions (detroit, always a real winning team :::sarcasm::) on TV. Nope, he had to play.
Five minutes into the game everyone is huddled around a hurt player. I knew it was him, he was on defense and someone hyperextended his left elbow, fracturing it in four places.
He was casted to his shoulder nearly for two months or more. Of course, he needed help, showering, etc, dressing....so he sorta moved in w/ me and we eventually got engaged and the rest is history.
To this day his elbow will not full straiten even w/ all the physical therapy and elaborate cast after the cast to help extend it. Too much bone grew.
I warned him eh? He was 26 at the time, but I think he thought he was still 16 or something.
To this day when he gets crazy I remind him he is 35 and oh, our life insurance policy is updated right? :LOL

The thing I worry about now is our ds. They start tackle football in 3rd grade here!! TACKLE. Well, my kid won't be playing. Luckily, dh works too many hours to take him to practice himself. I won't do it. I want my son to be cultured not a jock. Playing sports are good but they are overrated IMO. Excersize is GOOD. Having your kid in 3-4 different sports in 3rd grade is Not. JUST MHO.
:D

Sorry I got OT.

Thanks for the input.

[rdl2k5]

Yes.. Sports are evil, yet looking through diaper sites for hours to find a Pure Wool 18 layer Lanolin Diaper Cover for $1.00 cheaper than another site is just fine.

I go outside, I'm very active with my wife and daughter. I watch the "big games" and our local teams. We have a DVR so we can just tape stuff too. It's important to me to watch our local team, but other than that I'm ok to record or just keep up with the scores. But when I want to watch a game, what's the big deal?

Why sports? Because it's just fun. It's fun to be interested in something that is bigger than "These 4 walls" It's why people read books, it's why people read the news paper, it's why people dream. It's to relate to the world outside of you and have things to be excited about.

Someone said sports were a waste of time and that we should do "performance art?" My opinion. Performance art is a waste of time. But who am I to judge, you don't see me posting threads saying "What's the big deal with performance artists!" To each their own.

If you think about it, everything is just a big waste of time isn't it? Why go to movies? It's just a stupid story. Why read books? They're just dumb stories about stuff that doesn't involve us right?

Why should sports be any different? I agree that gluing to the TV for the entire day isn't healthy or pro-family but being interested in watching a game? And then to keep up with scores? I think you all are going a little overboard.

Think about the things you do in your spare time. Why knit a wool sweater? Just buy one. Why cook dinner? Just throw a frozen dinner in. Why go to Starbucks for a latte? Just make a cup of Folgers at home.

You can do this all day long with the "Why do you..." We all do things in life simply for enjoyment and to escape. Someone who read the "knit a wool sweater" thing will of course jump down my throat and say "Hey, I do that because I enjoy doing it!" Exactly...

As with any activity. Excess is bad, moderation is the key.

[Ellien C]

Thanks for the perspective, PP.

I have NO IDEA what's up with men and football. My DH tried to explain it with this article, but it didn't make any more sense to me than any of my parenting articles must mean to him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8089281

[Sneezykids]

<<As with any activity. Excess is bad, moderation is the key>>

I agree, and I think I opened the post with how my dh is 'addicted' to them, which is of course, MY subjective opinion too. He is in denial, but at times he will admit he is addicted.

I think his goes above a moderate amount. But, he has gotten better over the years thanks to TIVO and watching ESPN to keep up w/ the scores. I'm not saying sports are evil. But, to tune everyone out, esp. the kids who need their dad to pay attention to them (after working a 12-14 hour day) too isn't good, and I understand how hard it is, he wants to unwind and relax after a hard day, they want Daddy, I need a break too. Balance is key. Finding it is tough.

My last post was a little over the top so I do apologize. I was just trying to get a mans perspective on this. I guess I can be thankful, this year my dh did NOT do fantasy football!! YAY!! I actually THANKED HIM. That did suck up a lot of time, ugh!!

I also have a little problem with how dh hogs the TV on the weekends, leaving TIVO paused for hours so he can mow the lawn etc. and then I can't change it. Maybe I would like to watch Food network! I wonder what he would think or do if I just kept the Food channel on all day or HGTV, pausing it here and there, Fast forwarding the TIVO and the 'bleeep bleep' sounds all day. I can tell you he wouldn't go for that for one day!! Yet, because he loves sports I somehow have no choice but to have it on in the background all weekend.

That was my chief comlain. I'm done now. And yes, I do love him, sports addicted and all.

:D

[Sir Top-um Hatt]

i like your point rdl2k5. i am a father that does enjoy sitting or standing maybe jumping on sunday afternoons. i may get a little carried away sometimes by ignoring the wife but for those couple of months that is my time. the rest of the year we do things that i would normally not do, mostly things for the kids. and during the fall and winter i change habits, i do more with the kids on sat and try to give extra attention to the wife the rest of the week.
i disagree with the fact that men who watch sports are less opinoinated. they may not care about what you care about but, that does not mean he does not have a opinion. do you think that if there were no football that your dh or whoever might have more opinions on topics that you are interested in or just another sport or topic. i am very much into politics, my wife not so much. you see where this is going.
i just think that men have to still be aware of there surroundings while football season is on.

[kiwimutti]

:LOL ok i read that men, when they get overwhelmed with their own problems or the worlds problems...de-stress by simply picking a team in a sport and solving its problems within the game...so its that simple, gives them some relief :LOL same goes for watching the news...gives them relief from their family problems.

the source of this pearl of wisdom ?...."men are from mars...women are from venus" :blush ;)

dh has never been into sports...or the news really either...he does want to save the planet though...wow things must be that bad at home :LOL

sorry, carry on...

[rdl2k5]

I have no desire to solve the problems of a team :) I don't do it to de-stress either. It's enjoyable. Some women will stand outside a scrapbooking store for hours because it's 25% off day. (We went 3 weeks ago 15 minutes early, there was a line 50+ people long, some had been waiting for hours) And that's no exageration. The first 50 people got a "gift" and we weren't even close.

Why would people do this! Right. They _ENJOY_ doing it. It's something that they have fun doing.

Pick something you enjoy, anything. Something that you do for pure enjoyment and not out of "have to"

Reading books, hiking, driving a convertible, walking for pleasure, taking an extra long bath. ( I do all of these things regularly, I don't consider any a waste of time. They are enjoyable to me) I'm not exactly sure what the difficulty in "Doing something simply because it's fun" is as a topic. I guess at this point I'm not talking about the eyes glued to the TV types but just enjoying keeping up with sports.

I work to have a balance with it all. Last night Monday Night Football was on. In some ways it would have been fun to watch, but a television show my wife and I watch was on at the exact same time. I taped the game on DVR and was going to "catch up" after wards. Daughter ended up waking up during our show and made us watch it 30 minutes longer. It was 10:30 when we were finished and I was ready to go to bed. So I missed the game, no big deal at all. It's recorded but I doubt I'll watch it.

[nora--not a llama]

Just wanted to throw out a different perspective...
I am a woman, and I love football, and baseball for that matter. Football season is my favorite time of the year, and I will sit and watch any game...don't even care who's playing. :LOL With baseball, I only watch my favorite team, but I can get pretty riled up screaming at the TV with either sport.
Why do I like it so much? I don't know...because it's fun I guess. It's probably the same reason that I can get so engrossed in a good novel...it's just an escape from my life for a short period of time, and I don't even have to go anywhere.
Anyway, that's just my .02! :D

[Sneezykids]

I dunno, I can tolerate football and have my favorite team (Michigan!) and even went to a game last year, and I can watch some of a NASCAR race (I mostly like the wrecks) and hockey (the fights) :LOL
and baseball? I don't like, but I like seeing those cute guys in their tighty pants! Weehoo!
I loathe basketball, all those big sweaty guys, ew!
And to the pp, I *really* dont understand sports nuts yelling at the TV, this phenomenon is way beyond me :LOL
Oh well, to each his own. Good topic.

Oh, and I like to scrapbook but there is no way I would stand in line for an hour to get a prize!

[musicman]

As with any activity. Excess is bad, moderation is the key.
yes, that is the crux of the whole damn thing.
That is the answer to this entire conversation.
you nailed it, man. :thumb

[bayviewbill33]

I love watching sports - baseball, football and basketball. Some of us men like sports. The competition. It is entertaining too. Also it is an escape in a way. Better than doing drugs! If watching sports takes away from family time then the watching should be reduced, IMO. There are some things women do not understand about men and there some things guys do not understand about women.

[KnitterMama]

I :heartbeat football!!!

You are aware you're in Bills country, right buddy?!?

[tootpapa]

Wow, this is a pretty interesting thread. I tend to agree with FuelJetA. I often say that Marx needs to be updated - religion is no longer the drug of the masses, it is organized sports. I also do agree with rdl2k5 that on some level it is just something enjoyable and that moderation makes it a manageable thing. There are things I do occasionally that are indulgent and don't really move my life or other's lives forward (like watching a cheezy tv show or a movie). But to say that that is all there is to this phenomenon is a gross oversimplification. Sports is a billion-dollar industry and as many people have pointed out here it commands a large place in the modern media. The media themselves certainly do function as control in our society and we are all very much conditioned by them. To break this conditioning is not easy. A good example is the quality of television news in the States - abyssmal. It is formatted as entertainment and so no real content need be presented. But not to get sidetracked - sports really does occupy the attention of many people so that they don't pay attention to other things. I would say that actually PLAYING sports is different from watching it in that you are interacting with others, getting exercise, often outdoors, etc. I guess this means that watching sports on tv isn't really worse than watching anything else on tv.

There is one other issue here that I haven't seen addressed directly. That is the male socialization that often takes place in sports contexts. Not all sports are this way, but in many cases the empahsis is on being tough, competition and it can be rather brutal. I always hated sports environments when I was in school - the guys were so macho and bragging, mean to others and posturing all the time. It was an environment in which you boost yourself at the expense of others. This whole "we're number one" crap. I always thought that was a way for insecure people to feel special. I don't think this aspect of organized sports is insignificant or can just be explained away. It is certainly a way we socialize our boys an teach them what it means to be "men". Can there also be other, beneficial aspects to sports? Of course, but ignoring the ramifications and implications from the larger society such as gender socialization makes no sense. And I know there are lots of exceptions. My wife played lots of sports whereas I didn't, for example.

One last remark. I think that the things we find pleasurable and do for distraction and our ideas about them are largely culturally determined. The same goes for the food we eat and the choíces we make about birth and parenting. There is often room within the culture for differences but you cannot discount the pervading influence of the dominant culture. That is why Mothering.com exists in the first place - to provide an alternative to the dominant cultural attitudes about parenting. So it is important (in my opinion - or you can just ignore me) to view our likes and dislikes, what we find pleasurable, etc. in this context. Sports does take on larger meaning here and it is good to understand how it functions on these various levels.

[SunRayeMomi]

Oh I could have posted this myself. I am the type of girl that could easily go through life without sports in it at all.... and somehow I found myslef with a man that LOVES sports. Mostly football. He actually insited I join the Fantasy Football League this year, claiming that it will "bring us closer together" :puke:
He says it's a part of who he is and I may come to like it with him... well, I have a period every month. That's a part of who I am, but I don't see him rushing to get himself on the rag... :LOL just kidding. Anyway, I don't know how I got myself into this. I mean it's not just the games, but the PREgame and the POSTgame and then the stupid commentary shows..........AHHHH!!! :nut

I wish I was like, housemom of the year, but you don't see me trying to live vicariously through Martha Stewart Living....

[Sneezykids]

tootpapa has some excellent points, how men ARE conditioned from early childhood to play and enjoy sports. In our school district I mentioned tackle football starts at 3rd grade. That is riduculous. There are two boys at my dd's bustop (in our small sub) who are playing and everyday before the bus they toss a football back and forth. Dd already is disgusted by them, how 'cool' they think they are. But thats her :LOL (((thinking: how glad I am she doesn't like boys yet!)))) I hope my ds doesn't want to play. My brother wrecked his knees playing and dh also had some sustained injuries. Plus, the stinky filthy laundry and smell gym bags, EW! If ds plays he will have to wash his own stinky jock strap cause this is ONE MAMA who won't! :LOL
A good point too about pro sports being a multi billion dollar industry. And should the players really make as much as they do? That's what gets me. Here we are in the U.S. w/ so many problems that need to be addressed yet we hail and praise a football player and pay him millions of dollars each year.

This weekend dh's favorite state team won over notre dame, he got so excited he jumped up and was going 'YEA!! YES! WOO!!' (insert various grunts) to which I replied "gee, you never get that excited about anything the kids do" I also told him I just didn't understand, so what if they won? It has no effect on my life whatsoever, it's just a GAME. A GAAAAAAAME. :irked:
I also found some scores written that looked suspiciously like Fantasy Football scores, and he was from the TV to the Internet all day yesterday (well, he did take a break or two and played w/ the kids) I asked him, "I thought you weren't doing FF this year?" He tried to weasle out of it, saying it was just a one week scores game, not FF. Still, he bet $5 on it. :(
Plus it's such a passive thing to do. Just staring at the TV while someone else is reaping the profits. :confused:
OH well I'm done venting.

[FuelJetA]

i disagree with the fact that men who watch sports are less opinoinated.

I stated that it was my experience and my opinion, never found to be fact!

do you think that if there were no football that your dh or whoever might have more opinions

I am male, thanks!

:wave

[aolinsmama]

so very glad my dh hates football!

[Sneezykids]

<It was an environment in which you boost yourself at the expense of others. This whole "we're number one" crap. I always thought that was a way for insecure people to feel special.>

ITA. Dh still has a bit of this mentality. Very competitive. It rubs me wrong alot of the time or OTOH makes me feel competitive against him. And I'm not competitive by nature.
I remember the jocks and their attitudes in high school too. They were some of the meanest spirited people I knew.
I really wish I could accept more graciously this aspect of my dh, his 'addiction' to sports. Addiction is not the right word, perhaps his nuttiness about them. So very irritating when I am asking him a question and he just ignores me then says "huh?"
BTW, when we were in marriage counseling (we seperated for a while) the TV issue came up and I told the counselor that I have done everything short of cutting the cable cord to get his attention, actually standing in front of the TV and turning it OFF. I told counselor and dh, when he ignores me for football, he might as well be saying "what you have to say isn't nearly as important as this game right now"
Now my kids feel it. Our four year old is now turning off the TV and saying "Daddy, no sports, no TV! You can watch nascar later!"
Dh is blaming me for brainwashing them. I said, no way, they see what they see! Don't blame me! :wink

[tootpapa]

I remember the jocks and their attitudes in high school too. They were some of the meanest spirited people I knew.

I was in a workshop about men and sexism in the 80's and we split into all men's and all women's groups. In the men's group the facilitator mentioned the lockerroom environment in middle and high school. I will never forget the painful sigh, almost wincing, that swept through the men. So many of us were really bullied and many were actually traumatized by the jocks, the "cool guys". I remember hearing the guys talk about girls and then the girls thinking these guys were so sweet when they were talking about them like they were pieces of meat behind their backs. This is what I tend to associate with "sports culture". I do think we need to be careful to qualify this discussion and say that this is not what all sports fans do, that in some sense it does not have to be this way. But I think this kind of experience is very common and parents should not fool themselves about their kids experiences. Of course the root of the problem is sexism and patriarchy, but it behooves us to take a look at how sports plays into these systems. The underlying message, in my opinion, is that men are supposed to be tough, to show no feelings but anger, and ultimately to sacrifice their bodies to the cause. The ultimate expression of this is that of the soldier dying for his country. I think in order to be a soldier in a war situation you must become dehumanized, or else you go crazy or are severely disturbed. Look at soldiers that return from war - often they are devastated. I know some will think this is taking the comparison a bit far, but it is important to look how these things fit together.

Sneezykids, it sounds like a lot of the issue revolves around television. I have watched my father, now retired, really begin to become absorbed by tv. Almost every reference he makes is to the mass media. It is rather scary. I myself watched a lot of tv growing up. It really operates like a drug. In fact, I think some drugs are actually a lot better for you than tv. It is a completely one-way experience. Your brain shuts down and the material (I purposefully do not call it information here) comes in. If there is anyway to get rid of the tv I would highly recommend it. I know this is tough and people often feel strongly about television, but pulling the needle out of the vein for a while (say a few years) can really help.

[Sharlla]

I hate sports and married a man that did too :love He's more into gaming and reading, which is what I'm into as well, so we are more suited. Instead of having a TV hog though, I have a computer hog :LOL

[rdl2k5]

The comments about the "jock attitude" are interesting. I grew up being able to compete in every sport at a high level but never really got into the high school sports much. (one year of JV basketball and my ankle was broken for the next year, so I just didn't ever pick it back up) I played in the Boys Club and recreational teams year round with almost every sport. All star teams/travelling teams etc. For some reason when I hit high school I just didn't want to be on the competitive teams. At the same time, every night a group of my friends would load into the car and make the circuit around town to try and find pickup games of basketball. Against the people playing for the high schools, we more than held our own and normally won. With football, I was more than suited "size wise" to play there but it just didn't appeal to me, even though after school many days I'd be playing sandlot games.

One problem that I know stopped it was with my parents being divorced I had visitation that limited the amount I could participate. 6 weeks at my dad's in the summer right in the middle of High school basketball practice. "We'll try to take you to as many as we can.." (Umm, Practice isn't a choice, When you're on a team, you GO) as with anything you commit to. My dad was always interested to some degree, but it was very clear that he didn't "care if I played sports" In some ways that was a good thing because the whole "My son will be great at sports and be the superstar!" never came through. That wasn't for the right reasons though, that was just because he was too busy to be interested in that.

Everybody has hobbies from watching sports, tv, (posting/reading MDC), walking, knitting, reading, etc. If it's all taken with the level of importance it should have and not an obsession, I still stand by that people are being too hard on the fact that "Sports suck!" I'd say that people who indulge too heavily into anything "suck" But.. to each their own I have enough to deal with regarding my own family :)

[tootpapa]

rdl2k5 - it sounds like you got the best parts of the sports experience without the nonsense. That is great. Perhaps that gives you a more balanced attitude to the issue. My wife was actually very active in sports and though had some stupid experiences, mostly from her father pushing her mercilessly, she also had positive experiences. I want my dd to not have her physicality socialized out of her like so many girls so I intend to encourage whatever activities she might take an interest in. That may mean organized sports as well. I do agree with you about moderation, but also still stand by the fact that there are other dimensions to the phenomenon.

[Sneezykids]

Did I mention my dh is addicted to TV in general? I gently *encourage* him to 'sit' on the floor and play with our kids. He did this last night. I have a lot of issues with him watching sports so much because his time at home is so limited.
He is gone working 60 hours a week. On Sundays he'll usually try to sneak in a round of golf, usually in a tourney, which takes longer even though it's shotgun start, like yesterday, was gone from 7-3:30pm! Then came home and tried to watch football! :irked: While I am proud of him, his team did place 1st and it was for Muscular Dystrophy charity, I'm still home alone all week with the kids and no break for me. He has cut down and plays 'only' (his words) twice a month.
So, that is my main issue, his work week and then TV sports + golf twice a month. I've told him over and over, one day he'll wake up and these kids will be out of the house and he'll wonder where all the time went. He'll regret it, but there is not much I can really do about it. I would gladly cut the TV cable, but that would mean cutting the internet cable too...(however my computer time is done when my kids are occupied or at school and I'm alone)
Oh well, this one goes 'round and 'round. I don't see we'll ever resolve this sports/TV thing.
Let me give an example of how bad off he is: For the first few years of our marriage and even now (9 years married!) when we would eat a holiday dinner at his parents, he would sit w/ his plate on a TV tray and eat in front of the TV to watch the football game!!!! His mom always let him so apparently she thought this was just fine, normal Tom behavior! I said "get your fanny to the table and eat w/ YOUR FAMILY!" OMG! I couldn't believe he was trying to do that!!
And, the other night he was up until 1am watching a game, his fave team lost and he whined about it for two days!
I just don't get it!!!!

[Dov]

I don't get it either.

I'm into real football (f-u-t-b-o-l what the 'merikaans call "soccer" :blah) not that pointy-ball, but not cuz I think it sucks... it just sucks to me--too much standing around, too much emphasis on behavior I abhor and frankly I don't have the physique for it. Having delivered that emotionally loaded qualification, I'm with tootpapa on nearly every point (mixed in with a dash of rdl2k5) on sports cults, etc.. I agree with the politics notion too... it keeps men anesthetized... but on the OTOH, I probably wouldn't know b/c I've only ever known pointy-ballers who were unsophisticated Republikaaners and I just don't associate with them in general anyway; it's just not interesting to me. So I have my pet theory but not much interest in testing it out (unless someone wants to pay me to test it).

My dw says it's a team sports problem... she was a swimmer and diver ("got paid" to go to 'Gate for swimming) and she's extremely competitive but she maintains even the "jock-ness" of guy swimmers never approached the level of abusive grossness of team sports jocks, in her experience. I was a musician so the sports I engaged in were mostly what most folks now call xtreme sports (skiing, 'boarding, surfing, climbing, kayaking, etc). I played only one team sport, lacrosse for one season and loved it. But then again even that team was a weird consortium of misfits and geeks who liked the idea of beating 'Merikaan football players with sticks :LOL (A lot of schools had pointy-ballers who crossed over to LAX but in our school the pointy-ball purity cults kept the big oafs out of all sports but their own)

I don't know about the generalizations about guys and competition... I like competition too but I'm much more picky about what kind of competition and what's involved in that. If it's kill "other" at all cost because "we're no. 1" and all that crap, nah, that kind I eschew. If it's a highly complex, skill-oriented (skill in direct opposition to braun and body size/morphology) and results in a clever engagement between players of equal skill and cunning. Then I'm there. Sure a win result is swell but only if it's a mere win, where emphasis is on the footnote and not on the clobbering of "other" because of "our" innate supremacy. It's the journey, the process, the engagement that counts. Basketball often fits that bill but, the players grossly outsize the small court and it's too damned repetitive for me, the flow is too interrupted. Hockey is better, more like LAX, baseball is mind-numbingly boring because nothing much happens, even when I've played it. But moving on...

On the other hand, there is a weird phenomenon I just began to notice among futbol players (soccer players). I've been playing futbol with guys from my neighborhood (mostly from central American countries) and they relate to sport completely different than the old-fart-white-guy matches I play with every other sunday afternoon. Many of my fellow old-fart-white-guys do watch pointy ball on TV and when they talk about it during half time at futbol matches, they actually do a weird "shift"... posture changes, a kind of "hunkered" appearance, the level of the conversation shrinks into a more emotionally "stunted" level, less words, more actual grunts used, very uncomplex vocabulary. When they talk about "soccer" again, wham, they shift again, back to highly intelligent, much higher emotional perceptions and intuitions, a higher level of complexity in their conversation. I absolutely cannot explain it. This never happens with the guys from my 'hood, I'm guessing it's because pointy ball isn't watched or even interacted with by the participants. But I dunno. I've noticed it consistently in the last six matches I've played.

As for watching pointy-ball on TV, I hated it and my own Dad drive me crazy... he'd be snorin' like a chainsaw and I'd flip to national geographic and wham, he'd be awake and annoyed I'd changed the channel 'cuz he'd missed something. When quizzed he could tell you what down it was and what yard line and who had possession. It was uncanny. I never had the patience for pointy-ball. Futbol, yes... because every play is a small engagement that is building towards a larger explosion... oh hell, it's like sex, okay? Futbol is like good sex, tons of foreplay and an orgasm or three every match. :shy Now I'm outed... that's why I like futbol... it's sex. Pointy ball isn't good sex... just bodies slamming together in an unsophisticated rutt-fest. Big whoop.
How's that for a circular ramble....? :bouncy

[Sneezykids]

wowee dov, that was a ramble and interesting analogy re: FUTBOL and sex. Personally, I think Futbol (soccer) is probably one of *the* most boring sports to every be televised on TV. I'm sure playing it is entirely different. This is just my opinion, just as you stated your pointy ball opinion.
My dh will watch and enjoys ALL sports, playing AND watching. He is one of these gifted males who simply excels at pretty much any kind of sport. I'm not kidding. He can play hockey, tennis, baseball (he pitched in HS) football of course, GOLF (he's awesome), soccer, volleyball, waterski (single), downhill ski - huge mogals and all and he is 35! Not that 35 is old, but he does impress me with his athletic gifts.
Therefore, I've determined he just enjoys watching sports for vicarious reasons because he also enjoys doing them.
In a way, this has helped our marriage, we toss a softball often outside or a frisbee and have played rollerhockey and ice hockey in the winter (we live on a lake) because I enjoy PLAYING them too.
Just hours of them on TV..ick. I do enjoy ESPN's extreme sports though, esp snowboarding (the women rock!) and downhill skiing.

[sapphire_chan]

Why knit a wool sweater? ....

"To have something to do with my hands while sports are playing on TV."

It's not watching sports, or playing video games that'd be the problem for me, it'd be not being able to do anything else. When I spend a lot of time on the computer, I'm constantly stopping to reload the dishwasher, stopping to rotate the laundry, switching to doing homework. I read for hours a day (can you tell I don't have kids yet?) and basically do chores, etc, with one hand. Yes, I probably read for longer each day than any sports' fan watches television, but I get at least twice as much done. We don't have TV anymore (still have VCR, DVD, and lots of tapes) because we couldn't turn it off and were failing to meet our responsibilities as a result. If you can't get things done and do your hobby, then you need to modify your hobby. If you are meeting your responsibilties, then enjoy!

[tootpapa]

Dov, you made some great points. Especially about team sports. I, myself, studied Kung Fu for 13 years (and Tae Kwon Do before that), but I have always hated team sports. And my Kung Fu school was not oriented towards macho competition but rather development and refinement of skill. I could always tell when "tough guys" would come to our school that they wouldn't join or would not last very long because we didn't have the attitude they were looking for. Here is Germany everyone plays fussball, and it dawned on me the other day that it is one of the cheapest, easiest sports to play. All you need is a ball and some open space, no equipment, etc. And it does seem to be about skill and not pounding people.

Sneezykids, it really does sound like tv is the problem. Sounds like dh is one of those unusually skilled and physically oriented people and really does crave all kind of sports. This sounds like it does have some really good aspects to it. But I agree with sapphire_chan, if tv is a problem then treat it there. I lived without tv for 10 years. Now we have one but turn it on maybe once a month. We do watch some stuff on video, mostly movies, but that is much easier to control than the tube being on. I refuse to live in ahouse dominated by tv. Perhaps you should attempt to get rid of the tv or negotiate some rules about its use. It is amazing how much you can get done when you don't watch tv, as sapphire_chan says. And your brain isn't pounded by all those commercials, which drive me insane. Maybe you could get dh to do something physical with the kids, like walking or hiking or biking, until they are older and can play sports with him. I walk with dd all the time to get exercise and be out of doors and it gives us time to be together.

[Sneezykids]

thanks Tootpapa, it IS the tv but I'm not sure how to get rid of it, he is so addicted and I feel like it's such a major point of contention at times that it could end up very ugly as a result :( we have such major differences about it, I could live w/o but he can't. He can't fall asleep w/o it, I can and hate the TV on when I'm trying to sleep. This has caused such turmoil in the marriage I can honestly say that it's a good percentage of one of the reasons we have problems!! Did that make sense? LOL :(
It makes me so sad. Sometimes I wish he were just...different. ugh.
Cool that you live in Germany! My roots are there but I've never been, yet...

[mike]

I really don't understand why football became known as such a geat manly
sport. I was once even asked if I was gay just because I stated I hated the
sport. If you like football thats fine just like if your gay thats fine, and at that
football if you look at all sports football is the gayest of them all. You have a
bunch of guys chaseing a testicle shaped object slapping each other on the
ass when they get the ball near the "end zone" and to top it all off there wearing tights.

[Sneezykids]

I don't know, must be a testosterone thing. :nut
Why else would a person donate their body to such an injurous sport? I think the life span of a pro football player is actually shorter than the average male. I heard that anyway, don't know if it's true.

[Dov]

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/declarationofrevocation.htm

The football edicts are halfway down the page. In pertinent part, he says:
"You should stop playing American "football." There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game.

The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football.

Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies).

We are hoping to get together at least a US Rugby sevens side by 2005."

[heldt123]

Well, my hubby doesn't watch any sports and could really care less, even though he played football in high school. On the other hand he has a severe addiction/obsession with collecting antique fishing tackle. I guess it is a way for them to relieve stress and keep their minds occupied on something besides regular life issues. Ebay or TV, I think watching the game would be cheaper! ;)

[Sneezykids]

<<Ebay or TV, I think watching the game would be cheaper!>>

Excellent point!

[The4OfUs]

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/declarationofrevocation.htm

OK, totally :topic - I read the entire article by Cleese - :laugh:

Don't have anything to add to the discussion at hand, but had to comment on the link...thanks for a great laugh (and simultaneous feeling of mild nausea, since I agree with much of what he wrote)...

[curlyfry]

I actually kind of like watching football with dh... :bag:

He did, however, spend over an hour today on espn.com switching around players for his fantasy football team...that was a little much for me! :p For the most part, he's pretty balanced though, so that's probably why I don't have a big prob. with it.