My MIL and Circ

[Gunter]

Dh and I decided early on not to circ our baby. We shared this with his mom b/c we are super close with her. Well, she was surprised at first b/c she had not really heard of people chosing to not circ. But, she has read up on it and watched a video with us about it. She totally supports us.

This past weekend, she was in town for my mother's blessing. One night, we were all sitting around looking at circ stuff online. She started crying and asked her son to forgive her for circing him as a babe. She said she didn't know any better but of course, wouldn't have wanted to hurt him. :love We assured her that it was not her fault, DH is okay, etc...it was really powerful to see that happen.

Anyone else chosing to not circ?

[DreamsInDigital]

I have one cut :( and one intact son and my third will be intact as well.
Yay for you having a supportive MIL. I'm sorry she feels so bad about circing your DH. I regret having my oldest circd as well, but when you know better you do better and I just never thought about it back then. :(

[Juliacat]

My MIL regrets having my dh circed, too.

[flyingspaghettimama]

We aren't! First in either family to choose not to...all cousins, husbands, brothers, fathers, etc are circ'ed in the family.

Of course, we haven't brought it up at all. I posted in the circ forum about how to tell them - we will after he's born. Either I'll make a joke of it (What? He's not circ'ed?!) or we'll just say that his doctor said it wasn't necessary. They all think we're weirdos anyhow, so this will just be one more way we're scarring our child for life. Or not scarring him. Ha ha.

[trmpetplaya]

We're not if we have a son (or if we have a daughter :LOL ). Both my brothers and my father are cut, but dh isn't so it wasn't a difficult decision for us, especially once we looked into it in more depth. If we have a boy then I will definitely bring it up with my mother. I'm sure my FIL knows that since dh isn't, our baby won't be and since he was apparently okay with not circing dh... yeah. My step-MIL will be told on a need to know basis. If we have a boy (she has two boys and we don't know their status, nor do we really want to since they're our age and older...) she'll find out, but if not then I see no reason to bring it up with her!

If my MIL was still alive, I know she would support us given the fact that it was probably her decision regarding dh's status :love His mother was a great lady!

love and peace. :wave

[Belleweather]

We're not circ'ing, but since no one in either of our families IS circ'ed it would be a much bigger deal if we did.

Interestingly enough, neither my father nor his brother were apparently circumcized, even though my grandmother is from a Jewish background! Normally, I can't stand the woman and think she's the wicked witch of the Midwest, but on this point, I've gotta say "Way to go, Grandma!"

[deathbygodiva]

My MIL Bf'ed and was non-circ in the early 60's. Very uncommon in her circle. She was obviously supportive. Dh was mortified to think that we would even consider removing his ds's "sweater". :LOL (We have 3 boys).

My mom, on the other hand, was mortified we wouldn't circ. We just don't discuss it.

[deathbygodiva]

Oh, on the same note...Ds came to me the other day with irritation on the tip of his penis. Since he's non-circ'e, I knew it wasn't an issue of abrasion or detergent irritation. He was alittle embarrased, (he's almost 10) and I said, "Umm, hold on a minute... I have to ask Dad. I'm clueless". It was cute that he asked me and then I had to ask Dad.

[birthjunkie27]

We have one boy circed and if this one is a boy he WILL NOT be circed....not going through that traumatic event again, or putting another innocent baby through it. Dh who is circed actually came to this decision after being there for the circ of first Ds. :love

[s_kristina]

Our ds will be intact as well. It has a caused a little friction with dh because he is circ'd. My dad and brothers were not circ'd as infants and I can't really see a reason for it though. My father did recently get circ'd due to medical issues and he thought being able to have pain medicine and being totally out for the surgery sounds much better then what they put brand new baby boys through. To my understanding my sister's ds is circ'd like his dad and that was harder for my parents to understand then my not wanting to hurt our ds. I am realizing more and more how lucky I am with my family. My mom bf all 4 of us in the 70's to early 80's, didn't circ her sons and used some sort of cloth carrier similar to a mei tai with all of us. I guess she was pretty crunchy for her times.

[samsmamma]

My son is not circ'd. If this is a boy, he will not be either.

I'll be honest though - not having had experience with it has made it all tough for me. The biggest source of my neurosis has been around care of the intact boy. MIL did not have DH circ'd, but she was from a time when you pulled the foreskin back gently every day etc and DH was fully retractable by aroudn 5 or so. Sam is still super tight and has had a couple of infections and while I know I have done the right thing and that each boy will experience retraction in his own time, I jsut gte so nervous that something is not going to be right and it is just hard for me sometimes. I would never do it another way, it just honestly is the one thing that I really worry about with him and his health. My ped is very supportive and is not trying to get us to cut even though Sam did have the ballinitis a few months ago, which just totally freaked me out.

It's funny, it's like I just don't know what to do with a penis, if you know what I mean...

[*Amy*]

So just out of curiosity, do those of you with DS#1 circ'ed worry at all about the boys being different? A friend of mine is choosing not to have DS#2 circ'ed because neither her DS#1 nor DH are.

[DreamsInDigital]

I don't worry because all my children are going to be different in many ways. Their penises are not something I am concerned about.

[flapjack]

Samsmom :hug. I know exactly what you mean. Given that I have an intact husband and only one of my previous partners was circ'ed (the boys daddy), then you'd think I'd have a rough idea of what to do with a penis, but I still feel mostly clueless. Standard practice here is not to circ except if medically indicated- right now, my boys are kind of borderline and we're waiting to see what happens as they grow up.

[samsmamma]

When it all comes down to it, for the most part none of us when we had our first boys had cared for a baby boy's penis before, so it is a foreign thing!

[crsta33]

It's taking a bit of convincing dh (he's circed and not only had his ds circed, but was there for it and was still pro-circ afterward, saying it wasn't a big deal that his ds didn't even cry) but he finally has agreed that we will leave this little guy intact, and had actually stood up for our decision to a friend of ours (it even sounded like he was trying to convince her not to circ if her baby is a boy). It's so odd b/c my FIL is intact (he was a homebirth in the 40s) and he told dh if it's not necessary, why do it. My mom is really on board too.

I'm worried about some doctor retracting him at an office visit. I'm not sure how to keep that from happening other than being really assertive, which is not one of my strong points. I'm also a little worried that somewhere down the line there will be some problem at which his physician will recommend circing and I'll get some sort of "I told you so" from dh. Though, I think it must be better to have it done with proper anesthetic and pain relief afterwards than the way they do newborns.

Christa

[tryingitnatural]

I wish I could say that I had changed my dh mind about this but nt a chance. He just told me today that a guy he works with isn't and feels wierd about. The guy is Canadian (he is wierd anyway :-) lol - just kidding. I told him that he only feels wierd about it b/c he has been in the US for a very long time. I told him that it was common in Canada not to be but that here people just do unnesscary surgeries. I am hispanic and none of my family members are so I don't understand why it is so important for him. My brother and my father are both very healthy guys. I think that I will be more traumitzed by it than the baby will. We have had many an argument over this but I still can not make him see my side. Here is his argument for it - get ready - it is a good one - "I don't want him to feel wierd in gym class. I want my son to look like his daddy" - I told him was the F**k he was talk about. His son was going to be way different then him. He is going to be a biracial kid for havens sake. (my husband is white) any I am rambling - I will stop here.

[flyingspaghettimama]

Christa - I think that's why it's so important to pick out a good ped BEFORE the baby is born. I messed that up last time. Now, I go in with my list of questions to make sure that either the doctor is compatible or won't give me a hard time about our selective vaccinations, cosleeping, extended BF, no circ, no retraction. Because they're usually pretty upfront with what their standard of care is if you're direct during the interview stage...and no money has exchanged hands yet!

Tryingitnatural - my husband wasn't sure at first either but then I showed him some of the photos of circed babies being strapped down on those boards. It looks so horrible. And then of what their penises look like after circumcision. And, I said, if circed, I wasn't going to be in the room for it nor do the aftercare (and there is apparently a lot of aftercare - ointments, etc). I would take no part nor responsibility for a choice like that. He wasn't hard to convince though after the photos...more upset at what he had previously thought of as "normal."

I think that is the funniest excuse ever (although it's the one I hear most frequently) - aren't you afraid that he won't look like dad? I usually say, Uh, is his **** gonna look just like his dad's in any case? And who's looking at their dad's penis still after a certain age (i.e. the age that it matters).

[MelW]

We're not circing, and dh isn't circed either. Actually none of the boys in our families are since the grandfather's generation.

As for the penis care- "teaching" about it will be my dh's realm. He was taught by his mum, and still thinks that it was strange and cowardly of his dad to not teach him about looking after his penis- though I guess his dad didn't have a foreskin, so didn't really have the knowledge of what to do.

And for the record, my husband has never felt weird about being uncirc'ed (and he's Canadian :LOL ), or thought that it was strange that he didn't look like his dad. I think that our generation was about 50-50 circ'ed or not, so neither group was a minority in the locker room. Though since I think its beginning to swing towards less and less circs (they're not covered by our health insurance), so uncirc'ed boys will be the minority in the locker room for our kids....

[AmandaBL]

I'm crashing this thread so to speak as I am not in your due date club, but I just had to say how sweet I think it is that she apoligized so sincerely. I have a lot of compassion for moms like her who did what they thought was right & have enough sense to know they made a mistake when confronted with the truth. That must be terrible. What a wonderful woman to be that real. I have 2 intact boys & get no support (let alone apologies!) from my ignorant relatives. I would be so happy to hear that from my MIL.

[AmandaBL]

Also, I wanted to add that I have an entire family of circed relatives including my husband, and I also have 2 intact boys & have NEVER for even one second regretted my decision. I was unmovable on that choice. There is NO medical reason to do it & there is NO reason to inflict your sexual insecurity onto your child. It is a traumatic & horrible amputation for both the baby & the parent who knows better. If one's spouse is wanting to do it, I think you should BOTH agree to leave it up to the child once he reaches sexual maturity. If you DO NOT circ, it can always be undone. If you overstep your rights and unnecessarily cut your child at birth, that is IMPOSSIBLE to completely undo - even after a difficult restoration. If this were a daughter, this wouldn't even be a questionable issue. Please consider that there is literally NO difference other than cultural ignorance.

[gratefulbambina]

Gavin will be kept intact. My mom has a problem with it, but we havent told a whole lot of ppl about it except for like minded ppl. Im sure we'll hear alot more after his birth & ppl start finding out :rolleyes

[gonnabeamom]

I'm at the it's a no-brainer to not circ stage, but waiting for DH to catch up. It's not that he's pro, and I can't imagine him actually wanting to let someone do this to his kid-he wouldn't let me put the puppy in the temporary carrier on the way home from the shelter, but insisted on holding onto him the whole way. He just wants to read up on everything, but isn't getting to it. Argh.

TryingitNaturally, it might help your DH to know that circ rates have dropped very dramatically in the last 20 years. Your baby is unlikely to be the only intact kid in the locker room, more likely 20-30% of his peers will be as well.

[bec]

If this baby is a boy, he will remain intact. We made that decision before we knew the sex of our first baby (over 5 years ago). I let DH do some research, and that was all that was needed.

I've never gotten the "to look like daddy" argument. It's not like he's going to be comparing his penis to dad's as he grows up, is it? I mean, I can't imagine a 12 year old boy going up, and saying, "Hey, dad, can you show me your penis? Why doesn't mine look like that?" And how much time do adolescent boys really spend examining other boys penises in the locker room?


Bec

[Awaken]

Joining this late b/c even reading about circ really pains me (any thought of a baby being in needless pain does!)

But I"m really happy to read that the op was about something nice, that your MIL apologized and felt bad about your dh after all these years!

I couldn't care less what anyone in our families think- what business is it of theirs what my son's penis looks like?? Why would it have the slightest thing to do with them? No one's really mentioned it to us- my mom asked right after he was born 'are you going to have him circ'd?' and I said no, why would we do that? And she said 'to keep it cleaner' and at the time I wasn't as knowledgeable so I didn't say anything, but there's never been any discussion of it since.

I think the whole 'looking like dad/brothers/peers' is just baloney. Why would it matter if someone's genitals look like someone else's, and who is standing around comparing??? Their faces, hair, personality, and every other attribute is not identical to everyone else's, so why would their genitals have to be? I don't understand that argument at all.

*This month's Mothering has a very good article about circ with all the basic info, pictures, etc so if anyone has a partner, family, or whoever you are trying to convince/educate, this would be a really good article to share with them!

Our ped is totally great, the subject has never come up. BUT, after ds was born, we saw an awful ped who said his penis looked really weird so we should see a urologist right away (she probably had never seen an intact male! And bTW she was awful for a lot of other reasons, not just that) He needed to see a urologist for a kidney problem anyway and of course, he said ds was totally normal and that dr didn't know what she was talking about. The bad news is, when ds was around 18 mos. and still going for checkups to the urologist, he forcibly retracted him without telling us what he was about to do, and really hurt him! It was all raw and swollen, I was sooooo angry! I called and complained to the attending, and he actually said that all penises (peni? LOL) need to be retracted forcibly at some point, and that it was better to do it now than later and get it over with but that he would speak to the other dr and tell him in the future not to do it without the parents' permission. What a load of crap!

Ok, sorry if I sound really pissy today- I am just not in the best of moods!

[Kavita]

If it is a boy we will not circ. Only if it's a girl. (ha ha! bad joke--just checking to see if everyone's awake! :mischief )

DH is Hindu and is not circ'd, so I don't think it would ever occur to the IL's that we would do that. They would probably be upset if we did circ a son, as in India it is a custom only practiced by Muslims and there is a lot of tension between the two groups!

My family is a different story, as they are Jewish. There was a lot of pressure to have my nephew circ'd and my sister did. (She later regretted it.) I don't think I've ever discussed the topic with my dad but if we had a boy I think then the topic of a bris would come up and I think he'd actually be rather angry and suprised that we were deciding not to circumcize. I have discussed the topic with my mom somewhat and she is pro-circ too but at least knows my point of view on this is very strong and that she is unlikely to change my mind and would just probably agree to disagree. We are really planning to raise our kids more on the Hindu side anyway, which I am sure will be another shocker to the parents if/when it comes up! Good thing they live across the country . . . ! :LOL

Maybe it's just because I don't actually have a kid yet but I have a hard time understanding why caring for an intact penis gives people (parents, pediatricians, etc.) anxiety. I'm not trying to criticize anyone, maybe I'm just convinced enough that circumcision is an entirely weird and illogical practice that I can't imagine doing it to a son. I mean, it's a body part that is in its natural state. With all other parts of the body, even ones that are prone to infection or irritation, we just tend to wash it, dry it, and leave it the heck alone! We don't routinely alter any other body part at birth. To me, surgically altering the penis because someone might develop an irritation or infection seems like cutting off someone's ears because of a fear that they will develop an ear infection in childhood. Or removing the vagina because a girl might develop a yeast infection. The arguments for "cleanliness" and "health" and "looking like dad" that people make for circumcision of the penis sound a lot to me like arguments made by other cultures for why girls should be subjected to genital mutilation--as a cure or prevention for dirtiness or disease, to be esthetically pleasing to a future husband, etc. Realizing that was the final straw for me in really deciding that circ was not something I'd ever want to do.

[AmandaBL]

One response I found helpfull when I asked "Will you be circing?" or "Who will do his circ?" Is

"Oh God No! We won't be doing that. Not circumcizing is actually one of the few things all reputable medical organizations actually AGREE on."

I've NEVER had anyone give me a hard time after that. If they did I'd seriously ask why they had such a fascination with my son's penis. I'm pretty sure that would end it ;)

[trmpetplaya]

My family will only be finding out that we don't plan on circing if we have a boy. I feel no compulsion to bring up the issue before then. I'll probably talk to my Mother about it regardless of whether we have a boy or girl, but I want to be gentle since there's nothing she can do about my brothers. I also want to talk to her about it in person and not over the phone from thousands of miles away.

My FIL will probably not be interested or surprised about our decision (since he most likely knows my dh isn't) and my step-MIL, I have no idea, but she'll find out if we have a boy as well. I don't know the status of her two boys (nor do I really care to since one is our age and the other is a couple years older...) or their father.

love and peace. :love

[bec]

Ok, maybe I'm being naiive, or its just that I only have girls right now, but do friends and family members really care and ask about this? I mean, if there was a whole ceremony surrounding it (bris), I might understand some questions, but in general, why would the topic even come up? Seems a little weird for so many people to be so concerned over a baby's penis, you know? :scratch


Bec

[AmandaBL]

Bec:

That would make sense wouldn't it! Unfortunatley, they ask. Weird, right?

[Juliacat]

I made the mistake of bringing it up with my mom thinking she would be reasonable...don't know what I was thinking there!

FIL actually enjoys telling the story of dh's circ.

I forget how the topic came up with MIL but since she's the only intactivist in the family, I'm glad it did.

I am, however, quite uncomfortable with my child's genitals being a big deal, especially after the child is born. How embarrassing is that?

[Kavita]

On one hand someone's baby's genitalia shouldn't really be a big topic of interest--on the other hand, I can see that you would probably have to bring it up with any family member or friend that you ever expected would be changing the baby's diaper at some point if circumcizing is the expected norm for those people. And for a lot of us, I guess that we could include grandparents in that group.

I told my mom the other day that we weren't planning to circ if it was a boy, and she said something along the lines of "yeah, you mentioned that before" and that was the end of the topic. I don't think she necessarily approves but also doesn't think it's her business, so that's good. Hopefully she'll leak the news to my dad before he starts asking about a bris if it's a boy!

[AmandaBL]

I only told people if they asked. My inlaws never asked. The first time they kept the baby, I said "Of course he's intact, so when you change his diaper, you can just wipe his penis like you would a finger. Don't move the foreskin at all" I thought it was easier to just bring it up if & when it became relevant.

[Momma Aimee]

you are lucky

i thought this was gonna be a post about a MIL like MINE --- :LOL :LOL :LOL

I am sooooooooo glad your's was a happy post.

my MIL is fighting mad about the names we've chose, about the fact we won't find out the gener before the birth, about usnot traveling christias (with maybe a 20 day old as I am due 11/22 but don't expect to go till over a week late), abdout us not traveling till march....and anything else. the other night she was yelling at poor DH and fianlly said "well just be sure you circ that boy" ....not clue where she even heard about the cir vs intact debate....but Dh almost wrecked the car, he can barely talk to me about that body part, much less her.......
I am glad you had a pos expereince.

Aimee

[Gunter]

Ok, maybe I'm being naiive, or its just that I only have girls right now, but do friends and family members really care and ask about this? I mean, if there was a whole ceremony surrounding it (bris), I might understand some questions, but in general, why would the topic even come up? Seems a little weird for so many people to be so concerned over a baby's penis, you know? scratch Bec

We shared this info with my MIL b/c we are super close to her and like to discuss stuff with her concerning the babe. She'll be the primary grandparent as FIL passed, my divorced mom/dad and I aren't close. She'll be changing diapers and caring for the babe pretty closely with us so we like her to be informed about the babe, just like we've shared our reasons for CDing or not vaxing. It's not about the babe's anatomy as much as it is about a style of parenting we hope to embody. We just want her to be well-informed with us.

And, such cool stuff has come out of our talks about circ...she totally supports it now. She even got to make sure Dh was okay with the trauma of his own circ years ago. I think that is pretty awesome!

P.S. I'm also a bit passionate about natural pregnancy/birth, having a gentle birth and parenting so she's gonna get an earful from me about all that I am learning, circ just happened to be one of the things.

[bec]

That I can certainly understand. I guess what confuses me is when distant aunt Jane or neighbor Smith seems to think that they can have an opinion about my baby's penis. :LOL But, then, I also am confused why they would be concerned about my breastfeeding/cosleeping/natural homebirthing/refusing to CIO practices too, so I guess it evens out. :p


Bec

[tripleaces]

When I found out I was pregnant I mentioned to DH that if it's a boy I don't want him to be circ'd, which totally freaked him out. It's unsanity! He'll get infections! Blah blah blah. I basically told him if it was so wrong why are men born like that in the first place? But he didn't change his mind. A few weeks later he came to me and said I was right and our son would never be circ'd. Turns out there was something on TLC or the Discovery channel about how circ'ing is unnecessary and whatnot, so he changed his mind. :LOL Turns out we're having a girl (or so they say!) so it's a non issue, but for those who's DH's/ILs/whatever have you tried giving them some actual info on it?

:thumb to all your intact sons and future sons.

[Momma Aimee]

as for my MIL -- and I'd wish her on no one --

EVERYTHING

and i mean

EVERYTHING

is her business -- or so she seems to think...............and tells us about it too (not just us, she calls my BIL to have HIM call Dh and tell Dh to listen to her...)

do we find out the gender

what the name is

what color the nusery is

what crib

what diapers

and anything else you can think of....

but

that is my MIL

she was the same with my wedding...........

now how in the H%%L she pulled circ out of the air to B&^%*H about I don't know -- i wouldn't think at 68, with the next youngest grandson being 14 now she'd even know about the whole circ issue.........but when it comes to finding something to fight abut, she is there.........i am waiting for teh BF and Vax fights, and the colth diaper one and the sling not a stroller one....5 hours is too darn close sometimes.....

EVERYTHING is going to get us flack -- BF, sleep shareing, baby wearing and so on ---------- my MIL is one who when we saw a nine or ten month old drinking COKE ina store and i rolled my eyes at DH defended the pratice of letting the baby have it "oh it won't hurt her". she is also the woman that threw a total fit to insist that our neice bring her less than 2 yo in to ICU to see her this spring when she was so sick that she had orders on her we wouldn't be i her room without masks.............

Whatever.

Personally, i agree, none of it is anyone business -- as long as a parent is non-abusives they are the parent (not that i don't rant about the woman putting the baby on fourmula in to DC at week 6 like my cousion -- but)...but such is the world we live in -- we have to hear about it, we are not mainstream, and thus we are different and wrong.

wait till she finds out about teh Vax issue -- WOW

Aimee

[Slackermom]

I'm in Canada, and our local maternity and children's hospital doesn't even perform circs anymore, and hasn't for the past decade. I think there is one dr in my entire city who does, and he charges $600 or something. We're not used to paying for medical care out of pocket here, so that's a big deterrent for most people! As a result, none of my friends with boy babies have had them circ'd...it's just not the norm, here, really.

DH is circ'd, but actually brought the subject up before I did and said, "No way". :throb I haven't discussed it with my in-laws (they can't even say the word 'pregnant', for pete's sake, so I can just imagine if I said 'penis' :LOL ), but my parents asked about it (in the context of whether it was still even done), and think it makes sense not to.

[suprgrl]

At first my DH went with the whole "I want him to look like his dad" argument, cause he was worried that it might be confusing for him if our DS looked different. After doing some research about circ, DH decided against it. He then talked to his mom about it....and she told him that his dad isn't circ'd!! So much for his initial argument :blush

Ronna

Due with our first 11/17

[flyingspaghettimama]

At first my DH went with the whole "I want him to look like his dad" argument, cause he was worried that it might be confusing for him if our DS looked different. After doing some research about circ, DH decided against it. He then talked to his mom about it....and she told him that his dad isn't circ'd!! So much for his initial argument :blush


Ha! What a great first post!