what am I doing wrong???

[mommy65]

I'm sure he'll wake up any second, but here goes--- I have a 5 mo. old and a 2 1/2 yr.old that are totally wearing dh and I out. He's on ds#1 duty at night and I do ds#2. Because they are all light sleepers dh and I haven't slept in the same room about six months and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Anyway, the real reason I'm posting is that my baby takes about 2 hrs. to fall asleep at night!!! Naps are o.k. and I can usually get him to sleep in his crib for those but no matter how early or late I try putting him down he wakes every few minutes-- if he goes to sleep at all. I try everything from nursing (I always try this first, of course, it was a sure thing with my older son but not this little guy) to patting, singing, walking, even just leaving him in the co-sleeper for a few minutes in case he's the rare baby who wants to fall asleep alone. NOTHING WORKS!!! After being up five or six times every night and waking at six I'm exhausted at night and this almost pushes me over the edge! Plus I miss the sweet nite-nite routine my husband gets to do in the other room with the oldest-- bath, books, etc. We've tried doing that all together as a family but then my oldest ends up wanting me to stay with him and nurse him to sleep and it gets pretty ugly when mommy has to choose between a crying baby and a crying toddler. HELP! I don't know what I'm even asking--- does this set up sound ridiculous? Any ideas? What in the world could be keeping this baby up? He's so "easy" and laid back during the day. Poor guy, I just sometimes feel that I'm not reading him right. Sorry this is so long... I'm really bummed. :blah

[canadiyank]

:hug I really have no advice. I am in the same boat...thought you could use a :hug I have read the NCSS a million times but have yet to implement a bedtime routine, etc, which is the foundation of that book. Have you read it? No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley....

[Thorey]

I hear ya on the two hours thing- that's rough. You poor thing. I only have one and she takes an hour sometimes- fighting sleep, not crying tho just crawling around hyper. I know you've tried putting him down at different times- but it sounds like he's overtired and fighting sleep. But then again he could just not be tired. There may be nothing you can do- and you're probably doing everything you can. I have sooo been there and I've had to say this is just the way it is right now. I know what I know and that's it. But here are some suggestions: Even if it's 6 pm and you see a yawn try to put him down then. The first sign of fatigue try it. Maybe he's got a 6 pm to 6 am sleep cycle- 12 glorious hours, can you imagine? A gal can dream right? IT will fall into place one day- this will pass. My gal was waking up every 20 minutes and very tired- I did the NCSS and it helped- but I did it in a drastic way that some people would disapprove of I'm sure- for 3 nights I didn't let her suck to sleep, I put her down drowsy and I'd only feed her every two hours, pulling her off the breast before she fell asleep- there was a little crying involved, but it helped in the end. Now she wants to go to sleep in other ways and she sleeps longer. Another thing that works for me- I have to walk out of the room if she's taking forever to fall asleep and her dad has to step in- I know you have another child but maybe you can do the nice routine and he can put the infant to sleep? You would breastfeed him and if he didn't go down leave to put your other child to sleep and you'd get the nice routine. Does this make sense?

[Luvmyboyz]

Have you read any of the No Cry Sleep Solution? It seems to give some mommies ideas. Good luck!

[4Marmalade]

Plus I miss the sweet nite-nite routine my husband gets to do in the other room with the oldest-- bath, books, etc. We've tried doing that all together as a family but then my oldest ends up wanting me to stay with him and nurse him to sleep and it gets pretty ugly when mommy has to choose between a crying baby and a crying toddler.

:hug I can really relate to this part. I love my dd (4 months) but sometimes I am so envious of dh who gets to snuggle up with ds while he's sleeping. I co-sleep with dd but of course are a lot more cautious so I have my one arm here, other over here, pillow just so, etc.... Ds is almost 3 so I can wrap my arms right around him, snuggle up and that's it. And he won't wake up if I move a 1/2 an inch!

I wish I had some advice with regards to your ds taking so long to fall asleep but I don't. It sounds like you are trying everything and eventually I'm sure it will get easier. Hopefully someone has some great suggestions for you.

[mommy65]

Thanks so much for all the support and advice! I can't tell you how much it helps just to hear we're all in the same boat. Actually, I do have NCSS, along with every other book on sleep you can imagine. It's pretty funny when my husband sees that box from Amazon sitting on our porch--- he knows I'm at it again :LOL I like the book but i don't know how much it's helped. It's the old problem of being so over-tired that it's hard to find the energy to make the night time changes. Someone suggested that I might try just putting him down in the co-sleeper when he's very drowsy and leaving the room. This person is a retired LLL leader and very pro-AP so I know what she means. He's real tuned in to his environment, like most 5 mo. olds, and maybe he's relax more if I wasn't there. The key would be, as someone suggested, seeing his first sleepy cues. I admit that I fear, when I see him yawn at 6 pm, that he'll fall asleep then and be up and going at 4 am.
Anyway, geez-- I can really go on and on about this, can't I? :o thanks again for the help!

[mommy65]

I'm curious, how did babe do when you did the pull-off thing to put her down awake? And how old was she when you did this? We tried my putting the older one to sleep and dh doing the baby but he would cry so loud and so long that I started to feel like we might as well be doing CIO, for all the stress he was going through. Plus, it started to feel just wrong to be nursing a 2 yr. old to sleep while my newborn cries himself to sleep. I have to say, having two is wonderful but heartbreaking sometimes. I wasn't prepared for it.

[gmcriss]

No suggestions, just nodding in agreement. I only have one, but he fights sleep like no tomorrow. One thing I do is try to get him to sleep by nursing and if that doesn't work, I just lay next to him. We bought a laptop so I could do something other than stare at the wall. He will make noises and such and shake his arims around and then when he starts to whine, I try to nurse him again. I do this over and over until he is ready to sleep. This allows me not to get frustrated with him and allows me to post on The BabyWearer.com and now on MDC while doing his bedtime. Goodluck and please, let us know what works so the rest of us can try it!

[Thorey]

she was 7 mos when I did the NCSS but in a slightly more drastic way. She would cry loudly when I immediately pulled her off and that hurt me, and sometimes I'd put her back on, immediately but she'd still be a little upset and I'd try and comfort her. I never let her cry loudly. I was worried that she wouldn't be able to relax at the breast anymore, for fear I'd pull her off when she wasn't finished. It was hard to get the timing just right- if you wait too long they're already asleep. That happened a few times and I was like I blew it! so, a few times when feeling adventurous, I fed her before her bath and then tried to get her to sleep without feeding at all. The pacifier helped me a little to get her drowsy. Music. Walking and rocking her- she started this thing which she still does which is sucking on my arm for comfort when I hold her instead of my breast. If she seemed really upset I tried to make her laugh and sung to her- to be like this isn't so bad- she more whined than cried. She was tired and fell asleep- when they're tired it will happen even without breastfeeding and if you're there I feel letting them know it's ok in any way you can it helps and they can relax. My baby does not let go and sleep easily- it was not easy, but I never put her down and walked out of the room- if I walked out to get a pacifier or something before she was settled down she'd lose it and I'd run back in. Hope this helps. I think you can try this with a 5 month old.

[mommy65]

One thing that made me feel better is that my ped. (Dr. jay gordon-- pretty well known AP guy) who is very against CIO actually told me at our last visit that he's loosened up a bit. Not that he likes to see babies cry, but that he realizes there are times when, for survival, parents have to do something like Thorey did and that he believes babies know the diff. between CIO and being with someone who loves them. Doesn't make it easy but hearing that relaxed me a little about trying something when I finally have the energy to do so. Good luck to all of us! :zzz

[IncaMama]

nak
i know you're worried that an earlier bedtime might mean waking up at a godawful hour, you might be surprised...i'd at least give it a shot for a few days and see if putting ds# down as soon as you see ANY signs of fatigue improves things. it may be that he wakes up at 4am for a bit but is able to go back to sleep. and honestly, at least you get at least one evening of calm and peace! that's worth its weight in gold!!!

good luck, mama...you are NOT ALONE!!!!

[merpk]

Okay, it sounds like when he's asleep you put him down in his cosleeper or whatever and then he wakes up? Am I getting that right?

If it is right, I am thinking maybe a different suggestion ...

Instead of doing a "putting down" when the baby is asleep, why don't you leave that step out entirely? Meaning just lay down next to him, and when he's out, de-latch and get up, and leave him right where he is? You don't have to move him and he maybe hopefully won't wake up.

FWIW.

[IncaMama]

good idea! that's always been much easier for us too

[lilsishomemade]

I'll go ahead and throw in another suggestion....since sometimes, it's nicer to have a list of suggestions to try out ;) Have you and your dh tried switching? Do the night routine together, nurse the baby, then let dh put him down while you tend to your older boy? If anything, doing this occasionally will give you a bit of a break, and give you the chance to really do that cuddling you miss so much. Sometimes, if it's not nursing they need, they just go down easier with dad.

[mommy65]

You guys are great--- thanks for brainstorming for me. I have pretty much abandoned putting him in the co-sleeper--- I try it occasionally just for variety and to see if I've missed something. For now I leave him in the bed after nursing most of the time but he wakes up a few minutes later. I do have to add, however, that for the past two nights I've put him to sleep early00 like six thirty-ish and it does seem to have helped! he gets to sleep a bit quicker w/out as many wake-ups during the first hour of sleep. During the day he's only been having twenty minute naps, but I'll take one thing at a time here :) We're leaving to go out of town for a few days tomorrow so our "routine" (yeah, right) might get a little screwed up but I'm encouraged. Now if all of us could figure out how to get these babies to sleep 4 or 5 hr. stretches we could write a book ;) Thanks again.

[MisfitMama]

When my ds was your baby's age, I just let him fall asleep in the sling. Then there was no "effort" on my part at all. Then, when it was time for me to go to bed, I would lie down with him and we'd both peacefully drift off to sleep together! Do you think this would work for you?

I see lots of people suggesting NCSS. . . to be honest I never read this until ds was over a year and I THANK GOD because it would have put the idea in my head that my ds could be "fixed."

I suggest reading _The Continuum Concept_ by Jean Liedloff. That book made me see babies/sleep in such a different way, and I think that a lot of people would feel a million times better if they read it. I suggest plowing through the book (right away!) and not bothering with the website until you're done, but if you must: http://www.continuum-concept.org/

Are you using a sling? I think that with a second baby it would be the only way to function at all!

MisfitMama :eek

[bjewelled]

Passing gas hurts. Especially gas that never exits. Try burping!!
My son, now 3, was just like this. We co-slept. We night nursed. He never slept. I suffered from zero sleep and was definitely in some deep post-partum depression. Now with 2 month old sis things are different. She never finishes my breast without a burping. She goes down around 7:30. Sleeps till 3ish. Back down. Sleeps till 7 or 8ish. Is she a different babe? Of course. But she was headed down the same track till my mom suggested this. It's hard. Means you must fully wake in the middle of the night, but so worth it for only one waking!! Every mom friend I have who co-slept and nursed had problems with sleep. Every mom friend I have who made a dilligent effort to burp and ease digestion before sleep had no problems. Worth a try. Sorry for the blahs :blah

[mommy65]

ooh-- burping? Risky doing the full wake-up but maybe I'l take a walk on the wild side and try it ;) Things are a bit better this week but, you know, that chnages from day to day. Thanks for even more great suggestions. Curious about the Continuum Concept too.