Baby would have died without "emergency" c-section...

[carolyn_babycakes]

...how do you respond to this?

I was talking to a co-worker about her friend's recent c-section. She was 4 weeks away from her due date, and the baby was breech. She had to have an emergency c-section that day. When I asked why...she said because the baby was breech and "would have died without the c-section."

Wha???? I realize that c-sections are sometimes necessary...about 7% of the time...but was this really an emergency??? I think my co-worker was mad about my reaction...what do you all think?

[MamaTaraX]

Your co-worker may have been mad because she had a c/s she didn't want and hearing that it may have been unnecessary probably reminded her of that. Breech isn't a reason fora c/s and it's reallynot a reason for c/s until labor begins if it's going ot be done at all.
**lurking in your group**

Namaste, Tara
mama to Doodle (7), Butterfly (2), and Rythm (due at home 1/06)

[mrzmeg]

(lurking in your group too ;))

Breech wouldn't necessitate a c/sec, but maybe something else was going on as well? Unfortunately, many mainstream moms just hear "would have died without it" and don't get the details of what was really going on. Maybe there was a cord accident in progress?

ETA: I probably would have just said something like, "Wow, it's really rare that a c-section is actually necessary. I am glad that you got the medical care you wanted and that your baby is safe." It's already happened and there's no reason to really start a debate imo.

[Geofizz]

...how do you respond to this?

"Congratulations on the arrival of your darling baby. I hope you have a speedy recovery."

If and only if someone asks my opinion, I'll tell them. If she was just relating what happened and her perspective of the results, she wasn't asking for advice or second guessing.

[Charles Baudelaire]

I'd like to speak to this -- I did an unbelievable amount of research on the dangers of caesarean sections, everything from Marsden Wagner's publications online through Midwifery Today to ACOG journals and beyond. My basic stance? No plugs, no drugs.

Guess what.

When I went to the hospital in labor, they ignored me until I was in transition and dumping amniotic fluid in their hall. They dumped me in a room and ignored me some more until I was well into the pushing phase and my dd had started to descend. It was at that time that, summoned by my husband, someone deigned to show up, felt me up, and said, "I think I feel a butt." Boom. Room explodes with technology and they confirmed it.

For weeks, I had been convinced she was breech, but my OB assured me otherwise. He resembles an a$$hole.

I went for the c-section. Why? Well, because like it or not, it is safer for the baby in a hospital setting to go for the section than the vag. Why? Well, if we were dealing with experienced breech deliverers vs. c-sectioners, the results would be about the same, outcome-wise: a statistically negligible difference in morbidity/mortality rates. However, if the sOB couldn't even DIAGNOSE a breech, I had no confidence in his ability to DELIVER a breech. If he had been Ina May Gaskin, then I would be standing here proudly scarless and my daughter would be fine, I'm sure.

In short, "medical necessity" may be the "necessity" of playing to your provider's strengths. I wouldn't want a person who was untrained in surgery perform a section; I also wouldn't want an un- or under-trained OB perform a vaginal breech delivery. I'd also like to add that vag breech is tougher on a primigravida, which I was.

Hope that helps.

[Missy]

...how do you respond to this?

I was talking to a co-worker about her friend's recent c-section. She was 4 weeks away from her due date, and the baby was breech. She had to have an emergency c-section that day. When I asked why...she said because the baby was breech and "would have died without the c-section."

Wha???? I realize that c-sections are sometimes necessary...about 7% of the time...but was this really an emergency??? I think my co-worker was mad about my reaction...what do you all think?

As someone who has had one vaginal delivery that almost killed me and two subsequent c-sections--one emergency when the same complications that almost killed me the first time arose, the other medically-necessary (I consider two life-threatening deliveries to term subsequent c/s as "necessary". Don't really like to die on my family...), I would assume that any delivery done 4 weeks away from the due date to be somewhat of an emergency...I would guess that your co-worker didn't have all the information or simply didn't share the rest of it. If something had to be done that day, it very probably was an emergency and I would have responded with an expression of relief over the final outcome. It's not a good feeling to have a c/s when you'd really like that homebirth; it's also major surgery and I have very strong feelings about individuals who schedule it out of convenience...

[StarCat]

i usually refrain from commenting on things like this because being a labor and delivery nurse I often am the enemy. Trust me its a huge conflict, so much so that I am considering leaving the field...but this isn't the place for that....ANYWAY.....in the other persons defense....people often perceive c/s's as being emergency because once a dr. "calls it" then its like a mad rush to get it done, and once you get respiratory, anesthesia, nursery and every one else notified, they don't want to wait. So the patient and family think it is an emergency because of everyone rushing around so quickly, when in reality its not. I have been in on emergency c-sections where we move so fast your head would spin, but only 2 times has that been the case. I always try to keep my pt's informed if it looks like we may be heading toward a c/s that things move quickly and not to be alarmed, if there is any thing wrong I will keep them informed, mostly because I think its important for people to know the difference between a hurry and an emergency.

Thats just my two cents.

[littleteapot]

A lot of women are given c-sections because they're too whiney, or going on for too long... many times you'll hear things like, "heart rate is dropping" or something like "Cord is around the neck" as an excuse, but in reality they either weren't true or not a problem.
I was talking to an OB Nurse a bit ago who talked about this happening all the time, and everyone in the room KNOWS it isn't true except mom - but she feels justified in knowing she had one "for a good reason" instead of realizing she's been fooled.

[Spark]

"Congratulations on the arrival of your darling baby. I hope you have a speedy recovery."

If and only if someone asks my opinion, I'll tell them. If she was just relating what happened and her perspective of the results, she wasn't asking for advice or second guessing.

I couldn't have said it better. I really think that the birth of a child such a blessing to a family. If your co-worker really felt for her friend and truly believed (which it sounded like she did) that the baby would have died without a C-section, then she might have been hurt that the joy and blessing of the child's birth wasn't acknowledged as fully as she thought it should have been.

Or... was she telling you this story as one of those "Horror Stories" that people liek to tell pregnant women? In that case, she probably didn't like that you weren't afraid or showing the proper emotions.

Women become mothers many different ways - vaginal birth is just one of them. I don't see it as my job to pass judgment when we all are trying to make decisions that are best for our babies and ourselves. A Cesarean would not be best for me or my baby, but that doesn't mean that it's not best for you and your baby. I will try not to pretend I know what's best for you and your baby. I'll do my best to simply support your decisions.

Do I believe that breech presentations deserve Cesarean births? Ideally, no. Do I support my friends that have chosen Cesareans even though I would have handled it differently? Yes, as best as I can.

[witchbaby]

i'm willing to bet she hasn't come to terms with it and isn't very happy about it to begin with. i spent about the first 6 months of my daughter's life spouting the "oh, she would have died without the c/s" because i hadn't processed my grief or allowed myself anger over what seems to be a very unneccesary c-section.

[phaeon]

I went for the c-section. Why? Well, because like it or not, it is safer for the baby in a hospital setting to go for the section than the vag. Why? Well, if we were dealing with experienced breech deliverers vs. c-sectioners, the results would be about the same, outcome-wise: a statistically negligible difference in morbidity/mortality rates. However, if the sOB couldn't even DIAGNOSE a breech, I had no confidence in his ability to DELIVER a breech.Very well-said. :thumb

[wawoof]

I think my reaction would depend on how and why my co-worker was telling me the story. If the co-worker was just relaying a friend's experience, I'd try not to pass judgment, because it wouldn't help anyone and I may not know all the facts. However, if my co-worker was relaying this story in response to my saying I'm planning homebirth, to try to scare me into putting my birth back in the hands of doctors, I wouldn't just say "ok." I'd point out that, even if someone else had to have a caesarian, it doesn't mean I will, and start spouting stats supporting homebirth back to my co-worker. Actually, I'm in a new job right now, so I probably wouldn't be too cheeky. On the other hand, if it was a relative telling me a story to try to scare me, I would defintely give her my 2 cents! So, my reaction would totally depend on the situation.

[carolyn_babycakes]

The topic of c-sections came up because of Britney Spears. Then, my co-worker told me the story of her friend. I was horrified and asked her questions like "what else was wrong? Was the baby in distress? Was it only because of breech?" I realize now that I must have had a look of horror/disgust on my face and that's what she took offense to. She said "it was because he was breech and she would have lost the baby without the c-section." If I had a nickel for every time I heard that... :irked:

I am really sick about this ladies! What's going on?????? In our city, 30% of births in hospitals are c-sections...WTF?!?!?!?!

[Spark]

I am really sick about this ladies! What's going on?????? In our city, 30% of births in hospitals are c-sections...WTF?!?!?!?!

:hug Ooh, Carolyn, I'm so glad you're making birth choices to keep you away from those uneeded surgery births!!! That's TOO HIGH of a rate!!! Wow! :hug

Wishing you a beautiful peaceful homebirth that your co-workers can marvel about!!! :D

[Junebug]

I would have felt the same way...BEFORE my c/s.

As someone who had a section b/c of a breech baby I gotta tell you I get a little sick of people second guessing the nessecity of my c/s.
Had my babe been franks breech or footling I would have gone for a vag. birth. Unfortunately she stayed transverse through 2 attempted versions, chiro, acupunture, etc, etc...
There may have been something else going on there. Losing my homebirth to a c/s was devastating...try not to judge ;)

[lilsishomemade]

What would have concerned me (and the part that doesn't make sense) is the fact they didn't wait until she was closer to her due date. I admit that last month, I am desperate for the baby to be born, but my docs always tell me that the longer they are in, the better, even if a babe could survive, they like to keep them in as close to the due date as humanly possible.

It's very odd they did a c/s 4 weeks early only because of positioning, IMO. Hey, the babe may have turned in that time (happened before!). I just wish some doctors wouldn't be so high strung and work hard not to scare mama's so much. I feel sad that she lost the power over her birth, but I am happy the baby is here and healthy!

[Geofizz]

I am really sick about this ladies! What's going on?????? In our city, 30% of births in hospitals are c-sections...WTF?!?!?!?!

Ahh, see that's a different question. :wink

Yes, it's horribly frustrating to see such high c-section rates. There are certainly many instances of very necessary c-sections out there, and many examples that leave us frustrated and angry at the state of maternity care in our society.

What can we do? Well, we can't change the past. We can't change other people's choices, especially after the fact. We can take charge of our own care. We can choose providers who view childbirth under ordinary circumstances as a safe event, but who have the experience and knowledge to identify those 5-10% of cases that really do require a non-vaginal birth. We can describe to people our reasoning for the choices we make in an informative but non-judgemental way.

When discussing my choices with others, I use statements like "for me, the right way to proceed is", "this is what is right for me and my family" or "the research I've done says that given my set of circumstances ..."

I also don't discuss my choices ahead of time with those that I know won't listen. There are many reasons why people won't listen, and I have to keep that in mind. For some, they have their own horrors stories and fears. I have a friend who really doesn't want to take responsibility for her own care. She wants someone else to take charge and tell her what to do and what will happen (Yes, she had a c/s for failure to progress. I wished her congratulations and vented to DH later). I never discussed with her my views on birth before or after her birth because she simply didn't want to have to think about it. I don't discuss my choices with my SIL because she had a uterine rupture that nearly killed her and her baby. In her head, the only safe way to give birth is to do it in a hospital. Period. Nothing will change that, so I have no reason to discuss it. Discussing it at this point would only cause me grief and her unnecessary worry.

I have other friends who seem genuinely interested in taking charge of their own care. I'm open with them about my choices and research because I know that they will be listening, doing their own research and maybe making similar choices as me. Maybe not. It all depends on people's comfort levels.

We can't change our own past let alone someone else's. I just try to take the past as a given, and judge where to go from there. Having been on the receiving end of unwanted advice way too often in my life, though, I try not to give any opinion or advice until asked.

[TwoSets]

Some children would have died. Most wouldn't, but some would.
I was told over and over again to have a c/s with my boys. I didn't do it. But good lord everyone was pushing me.
She probably feels the baby would have died, because that is probably what the doctor told her.

[veggiemomma]

okay, I had a section with my son because he would have died if I hadn't. and I probably would have too. It's a long complicated story that I don't often go into because it takes a long time to tell and I have found that people really don't care all that much about the details. They just ask to be nice, not really to find out. So, I usually say "I had a section with my first. If I hadn't, he probably would have died." and leave it at that.

I think it's unfair to assume that a woman has a c-section because she is "too whiney" or doesn't want to go through child birth. I also strongly agree that there must have been another reason this child was taken 4 weeks early. Maybe your co-worker wasn't informed about all the details of her friend's pregnancy.

In all honesty, your co-worker probably thought it was none of your business to criticize her friend and her doctor. I agree that there are way too many sections preformed today. But that really is the last thing you want to hear when you have just been through one that you did not plan or expect.

[crazy_eights]

I am really sick about this ladies! What's going on?????? In our city, 30% of births in hospitals are c-sections...WTF?!?!?!?!

Another L&D nurse. Here we are up to around 40%. Can ya' believe it?

[shelbean91]

Another L&D nurse. Here we are up to around 40%. Can ya' believe it?
40%!!!! Un- #$@#%- believable!!! Quite honestly makes me want ot vomit!! :dropjaw :yikes: